We have had the discussions about how the NFL has taken a hit and the ratings are suffering which in turn means less revenue.
The number of commercials and the other activities that I see now from the NFL in support of the military is overwhelming. It is obvious that they are trying to win some of their fan base back.
My wife, who never watches any games only catches a glimpse as she walks through the room with the game on.... she even noticed in the little exposure that she has to it.
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People in their houses or bars or any other place you mention is the real false equivalency because there has never been a tradition ever for people to stand in their homes or bars or anywhere other than at the game out of respect for the Anthem.
The US Flag code only requires those present to stand - not if you watch remotely:
During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there.
Yet my dad who is a WWII vet will stand in his living room when it is played. He can't stomach the players that kneel but says he's not gonna let a few assholes stop him from watching the Giants.
But, suddenly, indifference to the anthem doesn't draw the their ire?
Respect for the flag and anthem is of such life and death importance, but not when you hear it in your house through the television?
I know you are explanining the stance rather than defend it, but the further one defends it, the more the argument unravels.
This massive, divisive issue is either very important because the national anthem is sacrosanct or it isn't.
It seems to me that this cause celebre is more a chance to be on team MAGA and criticize these successful (black) athletes for being ungrateful.
And while anecdotal, I think this picture reflects how many feel of the ones railing against the NFL and their players.
It's a free country, and as long as they are acting within the law should be free to do what they want. Does forcing someone to stand for an anthem make this a better country? I'd say it goes against the values of the country in the first place.
1st....people historically came to America because it was a vast, airable piece of land that was undeveloped and underserved. Western Europe has been developed for thousands of years-many were fleeing overcrowding.
2nd..many did not come voluntarily. many were forced here via slavery. Others were basically rounded up and sent to America in the same manner vagrants are sent to jail.
3rd..today...many of the people coming here are fleeing horrible 3rd world conditions, for slighlty better racially oppressed conditions as non-legal and thus highly vulnerable people.
I applaud the athletes for taking a knee.
For many, it is not insincere.
I read an article last month, after the Iggles-Skins game ended at midnight several Iggles players got up at 5 AM to go to Harrisburg and meet with state legislators to help pass the 'Clean Slate' law.
Although many are not blatant racists, we have a system historically that has been racially and socioeconomically biased-unless you are a good football player or a doctor.
Ever wonder why HealthCare is tied to the employer instead of by birthright (because jobs could discriminate against certain people)?
Or why you get a tax break on your mortgage interest-but not your rent or your student loans?
Why can you refinance a home, discharge a home loan, but not a student loan-the same loan many need to have skills to get a job?
Link - ( New Window )
As flag etiquette has evolved it has become supportive and patriotic to wear flag clothing, not disrespectful.
this is according to the American Legion, not some random hack opinion.
And the indifference to the Anthem IMO isn't condoned, but it's not blatant disdain, that's why it's less offensive. Usually when informed of their ignorance or indifference a person will adhere to accepted norms.
I know a lot of people say veterans fought for the right for people to protest and they'll say most veterans are not offended by the protests, but in my job and through various civic organizations I belong to I speak with a lot of veterans, many don't give a shit, but most that I talk to actually do find the form of protest offensive and they feel like the protests target the wrong group. You know, consider your audience.
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My football watching is pretty much limited to the Giants now. I used to be an NFL junkie. Not anymore.
There are many factors in that...quality of the game has deteriorated, over-saturation, new CBA, rule changes, too many commercials. But mixing politics with sports was stupid. The NFL doesn't know its audience or chose to ignore it. The NFL could have easily avoided this whole thing. You see the same thing with ESPN, who is now set for another round of layoffs.
I disagree.
I've watched less and less football myself, this year and year's prior.
Why?
The product is poor, I can watch as many NHL games as I want (something not around when I grew up).
Heck, if anything the athletes taking a knee would make me watch MORE just to see that.
Just think about all the teams that now become your favorite teams!
Plus it doesn't help that a bunch of famous, black millionaire athletes in a league that is 80% black are complaining that their race is oppressed and can't succeed in this country.
Yeah I know it's idealistic and simplistic; but it is incumbent on each of us to teach our kids to love each other. If everyone did that the world would be such a better place.
Ok sorry for that interruption. Go back to the bickering!
+1
The selective-- and oh so obviously selective-- outrage is what makes it, by and large, faux outrage.
Again, no one in bars takes off their hats, and stops what they are doing to stand and respect the flag during the national anthem. Even during the Super Bowl when they go all out of the national anthem, people watching on TV carry about their business. In fact, it's common and enjoyable to many of these people to GAMBLE on how long the anthem is going to be-- that the anthem is nothing more than an entertaining prop.
At recent Yankees and Giants games-- during the anthem, a vendor was still calling out "beer, here" and no one bat an eye, the concession stands were operating in full force and many other fans found it an appropriate time to take a piss.
Marshawn Lynch sitting for the US anthem is about personal grievances he has with the US. The Mexican flag is irrelevant to that.
You stated "faux outrage" as fact when, in truth, it's difficult to know a person's motivation. Evidence is needed to make your case.
Plus it doesn't help that a bunch of famous, black millionaire athletes in a league that is 80% black are complaining that their race is oppressed and can't succeed in this country.
Your post couldn't be more wrong.
The protest didn't fail, and it didn't backfire. It became a huge national story. Most of the time that it's brought up in the news, the reason behind it is mentioned. A protest that fails and backfires is one that nobody pays attention to.
The "anyone" you refer to in "...all anyone is talking about..." are only the people in your echo chamber. It's obvious you don't spend much time outside of your bubble, since you haven't heard any other type of discussion regarding this.
And your last paragraph is the typical, tone-deaf (and telling) response of many (certain) people, who will never, ever, ever get it. Your use of the term "complaining" alone is pretty repulsive, when you consider what they're "complaining" about.
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I think most players have realized this and is why there are only a handful left doing it. Instead of helping their cause of "black oppression and police brutality", all anyone is talking about is whether or not their kneeling is anti-American and disrespectful to veterans. When you have to keep explaining what your protest is about and pleading that you are not protesting the flag, the country and its veterans its obviously not working.
Plus it doesn't help that a bunch of famous, black millionaire athletes in a league that is 80% black are complaining that their race is oppressed and can't succeed in this country.
Your post couldn't be more wrong.
The protest didn't fail, and it didn't backfire. It became a huge national story. Most of the time that it's brought up in the news, the reason behind it is mentioned. A protest that fails and backfires is one that nobody pays attention to.
The "anyone" you refer to in "...all anyone is talking about..." are only the people in your echo chamber. It's obvious you don't spend much time outside of your bubble, since you haven't heard any other type of discussion regarding this.
And your last paragraph is the typical, tone-deaf (and telling) response of many (certain) people, who will never, ever, ever get it. Your use of the term "complaining" alone is pretty repulsive, when you consider what they're "complaining" about.
The only time that topic of "police brutality and oppression" comes up now is when a player like Eric Reid goes on the View show to explain they aren't protesting the flag/country. Like I said, not a good protest if what you're protesting has to be explained over and over. BTW he said he wants the laws changed so that police can't use lethal force if someone is unarmed. So if an unarmed suspect resists arrest, attacks a cop and tries strangling him or taking his weapon as in the Michael Brown case a cop can't use lethal force?? GTFO
And BTW you may want to look up the definition of protest:
protest
verb
gerund or present participle: protesting
prəˈtest,prōˈtest/Submit
1.
express an objection to what someone has said or done.
"she wouldn't let him pay, and he didn't protest"
synonyms: express opposition, object, dissent, take issue, make/take a stand, put up a fight, kick, take exception, complain, express disapproval, disagree, demur, remonstrate, make a fuss
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In comment 13699437 giant24 said:
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I think most players have realized this and is why there are only a handful left doing it. Instead of helping their cause of "black oppression and police brutality", all anyone is talking about is whether or not their kneeling is anti-American and disrespectful to veterans. When you have to keep explaining what your protest is about and pleading that you are not protesting the flag, the country and its veterans its obviously not working.
Plus it doesn't help that a bunch of famous, black millionaire athletes in a league that is 80% black are complaining that their race is oppressed and can't succeed in this country.
Your post couldn't be more wrong.
The protest didn't fail, and it didn't backfire. It became a huge national story. Most of the time that it's brought up in the news, the reason behind it is mentioned. A protest that fails and backfires is one that nobody pays attention to.
The "anyone" you refer to in "...all anyone is talking about..." are only the people in your echo chamber. It's obvious you don't spend much time outside of your bubble, since you haven't heard any other type of discussion regarding this.
And your last paragraph is the typical, tone-deaf (and telling) response of many (certain) people, who will never, ever, ever get it. Your use of the term "complaining" alone is pretty repulsive, when you consider what they're "complaining" about.
The only time that topic of "police brutality and oppression" comes up now is when a player like Eric Reid goes on the View show to explain they aren't protesting the flag/country. Like I said, not a good protest if what you're protesting has to be explained over and over. BTW he said he wants the laws changed so that police can't use lethal force if someone is unarmed. So if an unarmed suspect resists arrest, attacks a cop and tries strangling him or taking his weapon as in the Michael Brown case a cop can't use lethal force?? GTFO
And BTW you may want to look up the definition of protest:
protest
verb
gerund or present participle: protesting
prəˈtest,prōˈtest/Submit
1.
express an objection to what someone has said or done.
"she wouldn't let him pay, and he didn't protest"
synonyms: express opposition, object, dissent, take issue, make/take a stand, put up a fight, kick, take exception, complain, express disapproval, disagree, demur, remonstrate, make a fuss
It has to be explained over and over again because duderheads such yourself, and certain television personalities continue to muddle the issue by injecting their own super patriotism and expecting everyone else to feel the same way. Why? I suspect it's because you care not to address either the symptoms or root causes of what these players are protesting.
And when all else fails, claim that you know a black guy that doesn't like the protests either or that he's never witnessed or been the target of unlawful frisking or been affected by discrimination. Then when that fails, claim that these guys don't even actually know what they're protesting cause they're stupid.
However, many like Eric cannot get past the optic of men not standing for the flag.
My father is a WWII vet who fought in the Pacific, and honestly, the protest rubs me the wrong way even though I believe the players who State they are not trying to disrespect the military.
But the protest forum is misguided and is hurting the product. No employee has the right to do that to their employer without suffering consequences.
Let s see how players react when the protest begins to impact their personal finances.
It's all bullshit. All of it. A narcissistic, petulant, septuagenarian baby carrying a decades old grudge about not being able to buy an NFL team is merely stoking anger within our society as a way to divide Americans into a cultural identity war because it gains him adulation and praise from his fervent non-bot supporters all while distracting the same people from the consequential news that breaks each day.
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I think you're making a false equivalency. The players protesting one thing (racial oppression) does not require them to protest against all injustices in the country. That would be impossible. They are focusing their protest on the most personal issue to them and are using their voices to highlight that issue.
The the outrage on the other side is a direct response to that. It's an anger is against disrespecting the flag/anthem. But why is that outrage ONLY directed at a very select group of people? Why is it only what the (black) athletes are doing who are the ones that need to be admonished for disrespecting the flag/anthem?
There isn't outrage at the people talking during the anthem, on their phones, at the concession stands, drinking beer, holding their dicks-- none of that draws outrage. Just the players.
There haven't been talking heads crucifying stadiums and teams for selling concessions during the anthem or at the stadium/security for checking people in during the anthem, or bars for carrying on during the anthem.
And if it's kneeling, then why hasn't any vocal protester said ONE WORD about all the photographers on their knees on the field during the anthem taking pictures?
There may be some well-meaning people who are bothered by people kneeling during the anthem. But this fever pitch out outrage matches the same undercurrent of the stupid MAGA ideology.
I'm not here to defend it, just explain it.
Most stadiums I'm in if someone is talking or sitting or wearing a hat during the Anthem people yell at them to stand, shut up or take their hat off. Sort of a crowd sourced form of enforcement. That's what I typically see, sounds like you don't see that.
but, and it's a big but, those acts are usually not done out of malice or protest, they are done out of ignorance or indifference.
If you can't see the distinction then you don't want to see the distinction in how one of those two scenarios is more offensive (to some).
People in their houses or bars or any other place you mention is the real false equivalency because there has never been a tradition ever for people to stand in their homes or bars or anywhere other than at the game out of respect for the Anthem.
B) If as a business you decide to play the anthem - then you open it up to being used by your employees to address political protest. IMO it is an instance of repression if you do this and issue penalties to those who would have differing views and act on them.
C) The NFL opened up this can of worms by intermixing state and private business. They wouldn't have to do damage control if they didn't want to use phony patriotism either in the first place; or to respond to heat generated by an inappropriate president and fans who do not understand what freedom really means.
The stanza we've adopted is the question in the proclamation.
Key is asking the question, as he observes the tattered flag over, as if to ask are we both a land of freedom and bravery.
That's an important posit in this debate. The author determines we are equally both of these qualities as a nation - and that the beaten flag is a just metaphor for both the wars we fight with bombs and battle for freedom among us.
The poem ends answering the question affirmatively:
Between their loved home and the wars desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heavn rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: In God is our trust.
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
Oer the land of the free and the home of the brave!
I would challenge us all to remember the anthem we celebrate is in honor of the bravery of those who fight to preserve and in the freedoms we are afforded - not only because of the war-time battles we fight, but for the noble cause for freedom we all might strive for daily.
However you feel about protest, the nature of the protest, the eloquence of the protest - it might be wise to remember protest is fundamental to our American view of freedom, and freedom is the Yin to the Yang of bravery in the anthem.
B) If as a business you decide to play the anthem - then you open it up to being used by your employees to address political protest. IMO it is an instance of repression if you do this and issue penalties to those who would have differing views and act on them.
C) The NFL opened up this can of worms by intermixing state and private business. They wouldn't have to do damage control if they didn't want to use phony patriotism either in the first place; or to respond to heat generated by an inappropriate president and fans who do not understand what freedom really means.
It's similar to everyone standing for the pledge at school. You actually can't force everyone to stand for the pledge, it is only suggested that everyone stand for it. If you make it compulsory you open yourself up to civil lawsuits due to the 1943 Supreme Court case West Virginia State Board of Education vs. Barnette, where SCOTUS ruled that the 1st Amendment prohibits public schools from compulsory salute to the flag and the pledge
I doubt that is true. How can the NBA require players to stand for the National Anthem? The answer is because the players agreed to it i their CBA.
If the NFLPA agreed to it in their CBA like the NBA players did, then nothing in the SCOTUS 1943 ruling would prevent it.
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A) I don't like the politicization of the workplace. Professional sports is a private business. Having the national anthem played is a political action. How many BBIer's have the anthem played when they start work. How many other businesses that provide entertainment do not play the anthem. It is ridiculous.
B) If as a business you decide to play the anthem - then you open it up to being used by your employees to address political protest. IMO it is an instance of repression if you do this and issue penalties to those who would have differing views and act on them.
C) The NFL opened up this can of worms by intermixing state and private business. They wouldn't have to do damage control if they didn't want to use phony patriotism either in the first place; or to respond to heat generated by an inappropriate president and fans who do not understand what freedom really means.
It's similar to everyone standing for the pledge at school. You actually can't force everyone to stand for the pledge, it is only suggested that everyone stand for it. If you make it compulsory you open yourself up to civil lawsuits due to the 1943 Supreme Court case West Virginia State Board of Education vs. Barnette, where SCOTUS ruled that the 1st Amendment prohibits public schools from compulsory salute to the flag and the pledge
And most of these dip shits kneeling will eventually be out of the league in their 30's and trying to figure out how to get a job (cash flow) or to get a job as a name drop on one of the many Bravo shows of housewives and girlfriends. We even have one on our team. lol
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would prevent the NFL from forcing its players to stand for the national anthem should the players ever sue the NFL on a compulsory policy like standing for the anthem
I doubt that is true. How can the NBA require players to stand for the National Anthem? The answer is because the players agreed to it i their CBA.
If the NFLPA agreed to it in their CBA like the NBA players did, then nothing in the SCOTUS 1943 ruling would prevent it.
Don't think it was agreed to in their CBA the same way the NBA players did with theirs, but I'd have to check
The 1st Amendment generally does not constrain businesses, like the NFL, from promoting or suppressing political speech.
The 1st Amendment generally does not constrain businesses, like the NFL, from promoting or suppressing political speech.
Normally but in this case the NFL would be instituting a policy of standing for the anthem due to coercion from the federal government (Trump's twitter), which is illegal.
The 1943 SCOTUS Pledge of Allegiance ruling actually came from Jehovah's Witnesses in West Virginia who refused to salute the flag because their religion prohibited it
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so they cannot force students to stand for the anthem or pledge allegiance because it violates both the free speech clause of the 1st Amendment and one of the religious clauses (I'm pretty sure free exercise, because certain interpretations of religions won't allow you to pledge allegiance to the flag).
The 1st Amendment generally does not constrain businesses, like the NFL, from promoting or suppressing political speech.
Normally but in this case the NFL would be instituting a policy of standing for the anthem due to coercion from the federal government (Trump's twitter), which is illegal.
The 1943 SCOTUS Pledge of Allegiance ruling actually came from Jehovah's Witnesses in West Virginia who refused to salute the flag because their religion prohibited it
Whether that counts as coercion would be an interesting legal question, but one that I definitely cannot answer at the moment.
1) For reasons I have stated, I strongly applaud the players for using their fortunate position as athletes to bring attention to the underreported crisis facing minorities. They could just easily take the OJ view of Ive made millions, to heck with them but instead they want to risk their goodwill and fortune to help those less well off. Kudos.
Nonetheless, my football viewing is way down, and I am not one of those dodging the NFL due to anthem protests. Rather, I think my anecdote may be more reflective.
a. First, back when I grew up (90s and 00s) we had cable but no high speed internet. I could not stream my teams games in the NFL, have access to my teams newspapers and websites, and I did not have the NHL or MLB packages. Thus, I lived by sports radio, ESPN, and whatever national games I was fortunate enough to see. When football was on, it was must see TV because it pretty much was the only time I could see it. I did not have youtube or those things so I could watch whenever. Thus it has gone from cant miss to can miss and I can be see later. I can see all of my hcokey teams games and baseball teams games-I can see all my Giants games, so Im able to cherry pick, and thus I have much less interest in games not involving my team. I used to know the stats for all the teams in all the leagues-now-I know way more about my team but know much less about any other random team.
b. Ive streamed about 5 Giant games this season. The quality of streams (thank you to the BBIer who told me about reddit) has been awesome. I think many others have done this-and so while we dont count as watching over the air, we still are watching.
So, you think the players understand the financial risks they are taking? Really? Giving them that much credit huh? They are fucking morons for the most part and have been entitled since high school and probably do not think there is any risk to them. They cannot even measure the pros vs cons of hitting someone late out of bounds even though they are probably told NOT to do it over and over by their position coach.
So, you think the players understand the financial risks they are taking? Really? Giving them that much credit huh? They are fucking morons for the most part and have been entitled since high school and probably do not think there is any risk to them. They cannot even measure the pros vs cons of hitting someone late out of bounds even though they are probably told NOT to do it over and over by their position coach.
One is a decision that can be slept on, talked over with family, friends, mentors, leaders before deciding to act. The other has you sprinting and giving you less than one second to react. Same shit.
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They could just easily take the OJ view of Ive made millions, to heck with them but instead they want to risk their goodwill and fortune to help those less well off. Kudos.
So, you think the players understand the financial risks they are taking? Really? Giving them that much credit huh? They are fucking morons for the most part and have been entitled since high school and probably do not think there is any risk to them. They cannot even measure the pros vs cons of hitting someone late out of bounds even though they are probably told NOT to do it over and over by their position coach.
Jeez. You have an incredibly poor view of football players. Why do you bother watching such despicable people?
Fuck steps one, two and three out of the Sean Hannity Playbook. TylerAimee just threw the hailmary.
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In comment 13699649 dpinzow said:
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would prevent the NFL from forcing its players to stand for the national anthem should the players ever sue the NFL on a compulsory policy like standing for the anthem
I doubt that is true. How can the NBA require players to stand for the National Anthem? The answer is because the players agreed to it i their CBA.
If the NFLPA agreed to it in their CBA like the NBA players did, then nothing in the SCOTUS 1943 ruling would prevent it.
Don't think it was agreed to in their CBA the same way the NBA players did with theirs, but I'd have to check
Right now it's not, there is no official rule about it for the NFL - I simply said the NBA agreed to it with their players so the NFL can too, so I said "if" they agreed to it, and you know it's going to come up in the next CBA as a bargaining chip (for both sides).
NFLPA will say we want weed off the banned substance list and the NFL will say ok for "medicinal purposes" but stand for the anthem. done.
1) For reasons I have stated, I strongly applaud the players for using their fortunate position as athletes to bring attention to the underreported crisis facing minorities. They could just easily take the OJ view of Ive made millions, to heck with them but instead they want to risk their goodwill and fortune to help those less well off. Kudos.
Nonetheless, my football viewing is way down, and I am not one of those dodging the NFL due to anthem protests. Rather, I think my anecdote may be more reflective.
a. First, back when I grew up (90s and 00s) we had cable but no high speed internet. I could not stream my teams games in the NFL, have access to my teams newspapers and websites, and I did not have the NHL or MLB packages. Thus, I lived by sports radio, ESPN, and whatever national games I was fortunate enough to see. When football was on, it was must see TV because it pretty much was the only time I could see it. I did not have youtube or those things so I could watch whenever. Thus it has gone from cant miss to can miss and I can be see later. I can see all of my hcokey teams games and baseball teams games-I can see all my Giants games, so Im able to cherry pick, and thus I have much less interest in games not involving my team. I used to know the stats for all the teams in all the leagues-now-I know way more about my team but know much less about any other random team.
b. Ive streamed about 5 Giant games this season. The quality of streams (thank you to the BBIer who told me about reddit) has been awesome. I think many others have done this-and so while we dont count as watching over the air, we still are watching.
You can applaud them all you want and my view is that is 100% their right to protest, but actions have consequences, and don't you ever question the audience?
What if the NFL players were unhappy with their rising healthcare premiums and decided to take a knee during the Anthem as a protest?
What if it was their high taxes being in the 34% tax bracket (or whatever it is) as NFL players?
what they're doing by using that forum is lumping everyone who watches games and loves the anthem and the flag (even if that love is viewed by some people as sanctimonious or selective) and making them all guilty of oppression and being "the bad guy".
that's why there is a backlash.
If they protested outside police stations against police brutality or better yet encouraged and were involved in community outreach groups (like Shaq wound up doing post-career even becoming an police officer) or if they marched on Washington they'd get more support IMO from some of the people who find this forum and method of protest offensive or at least there would be less controversy.
And I do not think the attention they have garnered is a good thing, I think the people who already sympathized with systemic oppression still do, but they alienated people who were indifferent to it or just denied it happens.
I think they have widened a divide, not created a bridge.
Here is another cliche that may work better, "don't judge a man until you walk a mile in his shoes".
Because then you're a mile away and you have his shoes.
Jeez. You have an incredibly poor view of football players. Why do you bother watching such despicable people?
I said most are not smart enough to weigh the financial impact of their decision. "Despicable"? I don't know how you came up with that. My guess is that you don't know what that word means.
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steve
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12:01 am : link : reply
even the 1981 New York Giants highlight tape starts off with the Giants standing for the national anthem.
I've even give you a more memorable example... Whitney Houston at Super Bowl XXV. Giants were out there. We all remember it.
Sometimes players were on the sideline for the Anthem - sometimes they weren't. I'd probably guess that for the Super Bowl's the players were because of the ceremonial aspect of the game.
I remember several games in the 80's where the National Anthem would play and then we'd burst out in applause as the team would run out of the tunnel. This idea that the Anthem was sacred to the players is a complete myth. It was done out of tradition and more for the fans than anyone else. The games used to start at 1PM and the National Anthem was usually played while the teams were in the locker room after final warmups and the start of the game.
I really can only remember a handful of times - and there was usually some ceremonial function attached when a regular season game had both teams present for the anthem. For playoffs and Super Bowl's it was another story.
Not to mention, using an example that is widely known to be a lip-synched rendition of the anthem - is lip-synching respectful and patriotic? Or does it really speak to the pomp and circumstance of the whole thing?
same here. and I use "know" loosely, more like for me who I have met a few times.
Is there a word you'd have preferred to use instead of "dip shits"? It feels like maybe there is.
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Jeez. You have an incredibly poor view of football players. Why do you bother watching such despicable people?
I said most are not smart enough to weigh the financial impact of their decision. "Despicable"? I don't know how you came up with that. My guess is that you don't know what that word means.
You called them morons and entitled. You obviously have a very low opinion of the character of nfl players. I think you thinking theyre despicable is not far off. Again, why bother watching such entitled morons, your words, if you have such convictions about them?
1) St. Louis and San Diego moving to LA. Ratings have not improved in LA, and obviously dropped in those markets. I myself am mad at the NFL for moving.
2) Chris Berman. I know watched MNF just to see his halftime show.
1) St. Louis and San Diego moving to LA. Ratings have not improved in LA, and obviously dropped in those markets. I myself am mad at the NFL for moving.
2) Chris Berman. I know watched MNF just to see his halftime show.
If you're seriously listing Chris Berman as a reason for NFL ratings declining, you're doing it wrong. Very, very wrong. I can't even tell if this is serious. To the point where I'd rather discuss the percentage of visiting fans in every NFL stadium than entertain the notion of Chris Berman being in any way related to NFL ratings declining. I'd rather discuss the merits of having multiple favorite teams in the same sport than even pause to consider whether Chris Berman is remotely attached to NFL ratings declining. There is not even a hint of a chance that he has anything to do with the ratings. At best, his fans represent nothing more than a rounding error in the ratings.
TL;DR: No, Chris Berman absolutely does NOT have anything to do with the declining ratings.
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And yet, people from all over the world, from every ethnic, social, political, and economic background want to come HERE. Where people can rise to heights in every corner of our society based on their ability.
Every country has issues, but I thank God every day that I was fortunate enough to be born an American. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
I'm well aware how fucked up other countries are. My family fled the CCCP in '79 and nearly three decades after the supposed perestroika, little has changed there. The day my family and I became naturalized citizens was probably the proudest day of my life.
You grew up here and the anthem and stars and stripes are a source of pride. That's great. For those of us who were born under religious, cultural, lingual, ethnic oppression under the banner of hammer and sickle, symbols don't mean a great deal.
The source of America's power isn't the flag. It's the Constitution - and specifically individual protections assured under the Bill of Rights. It's fluid and not static. You don't like the law your congress just passed? Go protest. Go try that in Moscow and you'll be joining the half dozen opposition party leaders Putin has locked up in the past 15 years. That's the best case scenario.
There are some similarities in what I've described above and the rhetoric from some elected official(s). Already we've seen the comingling of US political operatives and foreign provocateurs. We've seen the blurring of lines between branches of government. This has always happened to an extent, to be sure, but never this blatant. The final price would be an attack and dismantling of the free press. This has not happened but, once again, You be heard the rhetoric blowing that way for years.
Finally, many would argue that while no country is perfect - as you've said above - it's our obligation to seek to improve the lives of our citizens. All citizens. Acknowledging that systemic problems exist in the judicial system isn't enough. Knowing that middle class wages are stagnant while the income gap grows exponentially isn't enough. We witness what's seemingly become weekly events in our back yards where thousands our own citizens and children are gunned down indiscriminately. We mourn for a few days, are fed some talking points from a prominent lobby group via a congressional proxy and we move on.
Millions of Americans feel this isn't good enough and while you may not agree with the chosen form of protest, and are surely free to protest on your own, please don't conflate our ideas and values. Certainly don't patronize us by offering us a lecture on how much better the US is. Quite honestly, you wouldn't know. For all of our successes, there are countries to do some things better. Rather than take a pigheaded and ultra nationalist and protectionist POV, I think we'd be better served to be pragmatists rather than ideologues.
BRAVO Modus!!! I haven't read through the entire thread, but I doubt there are any posts that express my feelings as well as this one. I was a conservative Republican (I hope its permissable to mention that) for the first 60 years of my life, so I understand Eric's perspective, but I've come around 180 degrees in the past few years and tried hard to appreciate other views and not just simplistic and un-nuanced, rigid beliefs.
Stay away from the ledge clown.
78% of NFL players are bankrupt or in financial stress within 2 years of leaving the league.
Not particularly impressive.
Quote:
I'm extremely impressed with the players I have come to know over the years.
78% of NFL players are bankrupt or in financial stress within 2 years of leaving the league.
Not particularly impressive.
Being young and not having an understanding of money doesn't equate to being stupid.
I suspect you'd find similar results if you examined everyday 25 year olds. Forget kids. Half of Americans have nothing put away for retirement. One in three have nothing in a savings/checking account, living paycheck to paycheck. If that isn't financial stress, I don't know what is.
But they aren't stupid. Just the football players who have a different POV than some mouthy shithead on a message board.