We have had the discussions about how the NFL has taken a hit and the ratings are suffering which in turn means less revenue.
The number of commercials and the other activities that I see now from the NFL in support of the military is overwhelming. It is obvious that they are trying to win some of their fan base back.
My wife, who never watches any games only catches a glimpse as she walks through the room with the game on.... she even noticed in the little exposure that she has to it.
If the NFL is amping up the patriotism, it's for money.
How the Pentagon Paid for NFL Displays of Patriotism - ( New Window )
The NFL-military relationship has always been a symbiotic one. But the anthem has always been tied to football as long as I can remember... even at the high school and collegiate level.
The NFL-military relationship has always been a symbiotic one. But the anthem has always been tied to football as long as I can remember... even at the high school and collegiate level.
I saw Tiki talking about this one his radio/tv show and he said that when he played many if not most of the time they didn't even come out of the locker room until after the Anthem was sung. He said they would come out for warm up and then go back in again until game time.
I've even give you a more memorable example... Whitney Houston at Super Bowl XXV. Giants were out there. We all remember it.
Perhaps there's some middle ground here in acknowledging that not everyone care as much as you or some other public officials sounding off for political expediency and it's okay. Hannibal isn't going to storm the gates. The world will not collapse.
And the NFL will suffer because of it.
I've even give you a more memorable example... Whitney Houston at Super Bowl XXV. Giants were out there. We all remember it.
I don't think he was talking about the SB, And I don't think he meant it never happened but he clearly said they weren't expected to as they are now and that often they weren't out of the locker room when it was sung. He said something along the lines of that he could hardly remember it being a thing back then.
There is a great shot in the '84 tape of LT standing for the anthem with a kids in the stands behind him standing with his jersey on.
I don't go to many games, but the ones I've gone to, the players stand for the anthem.
That article is simply false.
The national anthem is about respecting the country. That can include the soldiers, but is not limited to it.
This is a great country. The most racially diverse and racially tolerant one in the history of the world. I'm sorry you can't see that.
And I believe he criticized Kaepernick about not standing so it's not like he is supporting the idea. He was just almost acting like when did this even become of thing?(they being required to be out there)"we didn't, we were usually still inside" (my paraphrase)
And the NFL will suffer because of it.
Steroids. Physical and sexual abuse of women. Overpaid man children. Greedy owners who move their teams from loyal fan bases and hold municipalities hostage for stadium deals. Dog fights. Etc.
All of that is cool. But you're standing your ground over the national anthem.
Interesting.
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that during the Super Bowl 25 anthem, he and a few of his teammates were commenting on how hot Whitney Houston was. Let's not pretend the players are standing there reflecting on the sacrifices of soldiers.
The national anthem is about respecting the country. That can include the soldiers, but is not limited to it.
This is a great country. The most racially diverse and racially tolerant one in the history of the world. I'm sorry you can't see that.
That's like...your opinion man. This country has failed many people. It still is and that bothers people. I'm sorry you can't see it.
And yet, you watched today's game. You did. It's okay.
Every country has issues, but I thank God every day that I was fortunate enough to be born an American. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
There are many factors in that...quality of the game has deteriorated, over-saturation, new CBA, rule changes, too many commercials. But mixing politics with sports was stupid. The NFL doesn't know its audience or chose to ignore it. The NFL could have easily avoided this whole thing. You see the same thing with ESPN, who is now set for another round of layoffs.
Regardless, if people believe there is systemic oppression, that does not give one the right to disrupt their place of employment. If I did that, my employer would fire me.
Want to fight oppression? There are infinitely better ways than kneeling during a national anthem. In fact, I would argue that is a lazy tactic. It requires no effort. Put your time and money where your heart is and get involved to enact real - not symbolic - change.
The NFL-military relationship has always been a symbiotic one. But the anthem has always been tied to football as long as I can remember... even at the high school and collegiate level.
Their form of protest may seem lazy, but it cost Kaepernick his career and reputation. Many of these players - including Kaep - do plenty in their communities, but they can shine a much brighter spotlight on this at 1 p.m. on Sunday than they can on Tuesday afternoon at the Boys and Girls Club.
Every country has issues, but I thank God every day that I was fortunate enough to be born an American. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
I'm well aware how fucked up other countries are. My family fled the CCCP in '79 and nearly three decades after the supposed perestroika, little has changed there. The day my family and I became naturalized citizens was probably the proudest day of my life.
You grew up here and the anthem and stars and stripes are a source of pride. That's great. For those of us who were born under religious, cultural, lingual, ethnic oppression under the banner of hammer and sickle, symbols don't mean a great deal.
The source of America's power isn't the flag. It's the Constitution - and specifically individual protections assured under the Bill of Rights. It's fluid and not static. You don't like the law your congress just passed? Go protest. Go try that in Moscow and you'll be joining the half dozen opposition party leaders Putin has locked up in the past 15 years. That's the best case scenario.
There are some similarities in what I've described above and the rhetoric from some elected official(s). Already we've seen the comingling of US political operatives and foreign provocateurs. We've seen the blurring of lines between branches of government. This has always happened to an extent, to be sure, but never this blatant. The final price would be an attack and dismantling of the free press. This has not happened but, once again, You be heard the rhetoric blowing that way for years.
Finally, many would argue that while no country is perfect - as you've said above - it's our obligation to seek to improve the lives of our citizens. All citizens. Acknowledging that systemic problems exist in the judicial system isn't enough. Knowing that middle class wages are stagnant while the income gap grows exponentially isn't enough. We witness what's seemingly become weekly events in our back yards where thousands our own citizens and children are gunned down indiscriminately. We mourn for a few days, are fed some talking points from a prominent lobby group via a congressional proxy and we move on.
Millions of Americans feel this isn't good enough and while you may not agree with the chosen form of protest, and are surely free to protest on your own, please don't conflate our ideas and values. Certainly don't patronize us by offering us a lecture on how much better the US is. Quite honestly, you wouldn't know. For all of our successes, there are countries to do some things better. Rather than take a pigheaded and ultra nationalist and protectionist POV, I think we'd be better served to be pragmatists rather than ideologues.
Sometimes the people at the top need to be protected from themselves.
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And yet, people from all over the world, from every ethnic, social, political, and economic background want to come HERE. Where people can rise to heights in every corner of our society based on their ability.
Every country has issues, but I thank God every day that I was fortunate enough to be born an American. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
I'm well aware how fucked up other countries are. My family fled the CCCP in '79 and nearly three decades after the supposed perestroika, little has changed there. The day my family and I became naturalized citizens was probably the proudest day of my life.
You grew up here and the anthem and stars and stripes are a source of pride. That's great. For those of us who were born under religious, cultural, lingual, ethnic oppression under the banner of hammer and sickle, symbols don't mean a great deal.
The source of America's power isn't the flag. It's the Constitution - and specifically individual protections assured under the Bill of Rights. It's fluid and not static. You don't like the law your congress just passed? Go protest. Go try that in Moscow and you'll be joining the half dozen opposition party leaders Putin has locked up in the past 15 years. That's the best case scenario.
There are some similarities in what I've described above and the rhetoric from some elected official(s). Already we've seen the comingling of US political operatives and foreign provocateurs. We've seen the blurring of lines between branches of government. This has always happened to an extent, to be sure, but never this blatant. The final price would be an attack and dismantling of the free press. This has not happened but, once again, You be heard the rhetoric blowing that way for years.
Finally, many would argue that while no country is perfect - as you've said above - it's our obligation to seek to improve the lives of our citizens. All citizens. Acknowledging that systemic problems exist in the judicial system isn't enough. Knowing that middle class wages are stagnant while the income gap grows exponentially isn't enough. We witness what's seemingly become weekly events in our back yards where thousands our own citizens and children are gunned down indiscriminately. We mourn for a few days, are fed some talking points from a prominent lobby group via a congressional proxy and we move on.
Millions of Americans feel this isn't good enough and while you may not agree with the chosen form of protest, and are surely free to protest on your own, please don't conflate our ideas and values. Certainly don't patronize us by offering us a lecture on how much better the US is. Quite honestly, you wouldn't know. For all of our successes, there are countries to do some things better. Rather than take a pigheaded and ultra nationalist and protectionist POV, I think we'd be better served to be pragmatists rather than ideologues.
The one thin from your post that I would keep my eyes on, is the free press. One could make a strong argument that we are headed down the path of destroying the free press. Constant "fake news"comments, coupled with limiting press access in the White House could be the first steps.
While I do not agree with the political grandstanding of Kneeling , maybe the players should realize that the point has been made and move on to a dialoge of their greviences.
While I do not agree with the political grandstanding of Kneeling , maybe the players should realize that the point has been made and move on to a dialoge of their greviences.
Or maybe not. It's their protest not yours. Up to them to decide when it's over.
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For just one minute we can all stand together , despite Political or cultural differences that we are all Americans.
While I do not agree with the political grandstanding of Kneeling , maybe the players should realize that the point has been made and move on to a dialoge of their greviences.
Or maybe not. It's their protest not yours. Up to them to decide when it's over.
And the grievances are cultural, not against NFL
Talking isn't the point. It's constantly making people uncomfortable and putting this in the limelight that motivates the kneelers (from what I understand). Seems to be working. Why should they stop now?
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that during the Super Bowl 25 anthem, he and a few of his teammates were commenting on how hot Whitney Houston was. Let's not pretend the players are standing there reflecting on the sacrifices of soldiers.
The national anthem is about respecting the country. That can include the soldiers, but is not limited to it.
This is a great country. The most racially diverse and racially tolerant one in the history of the world. I'm sorry you can't see that.
Racially tolerant? Must be nice to live in that world. That's not reality for a lot of Americans.
Even Rome was more racially tolerant.
So, this is about league revenue, the brand, what has happened to it and the leagues' reaction in the form of those ads.
What I can promise you is this. If the ratings and ad revenues continue to suffer, the lost revenue will impact the next round of CBA discussions, the salary cap, etc.
You would also have to believe that the networks themselves who reaped the benefit from short term ratings spikes at the beginning of each game are also seeing the impact. Makes me wonder whether the local producers of each game for the networks have been told to stop focusing on this so much and for the commentators to stick to football.
Beast Mode is an asshole , God bless him. The Giants have one kneeler left , whose mother is a Swiss national , God bless him. Thr Knicks 20-million-dollar-a year, - third-string center wouldn't eat with the cadets at West Point God bless him. A dirt bag like Steve Nash turned his back on the flag for NBA anthems , dishonoribg our country . A Canadian who made tens of millions of dollars in this country, whose military protects both his country and ours . God bless him. God bless them all that they could live and work in this country .
And for the thread starter, the Giants have been on the field and standing for the anthem since the 80s. But I went to the Stadium, Yale Bowl and Shea when they did not. They remained inside the locker room or tunnel.
However, many like Eric cannot get past the optic of men not standing for the flag.
My father is a WWII vet who fought in the Pacific, and honestly, the protest rubs me the wrong way even though I believe the players who State they are not trying to disrespect the military.
But the protest forum is misguided and is hurting the product. No employee has the right to do that to their employer without suffering consequences.
Let s see how players react when the protest begins to impact their personal finances.
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And yet, people from all over the world, from every ethnic, social, political, and economic background want to come HERE. Where people can rise to heights in every corner of our society based on their ability.
Every country has issues, but I thank God every day that I was fortunate enough to be born an American. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
I'm well aware how fucked up other countries are. My family fled the CCCP in '79 and nearly three decades after the supposed perestroika, little has changed there. The day my family and I became naturalized citizens was probably the proudest day of my life.
You grew up here and the anthem and stars and stripes are a source of pride. That's great. For those of us who were born under religious, cultural, lingual, ethnic oppression under the banner of hammer and sickle, symbols don't mean a great deal.
The source of America's power isn't the flag. It's the Constitution - and specifically individual protections assured under the Bill of Rights. It's fluid and not static. You don't like the law your congress just passed? Go protest. Go try that in Moscow and you'll be joining the half dozen opposition party leaders Putin has locked up in the past 15 years. That's the best case scenario.
There are some similarities in what I've described above and the rhetoric from some elected official(s). Already we've seen the comingling of US political operatives and foreign provocateurs. We've seen the blurring of lines between branches of government. This has always happened to an extent, to be sure, but never this blatant. The final price would be an attack and dismantling of the free press. This has not happened but, once again, You be heard the rhetoric blowing that way for years.
Finally, many would argue that while no country is perfect - as you've said above - it's our obligation to seek to improve the lives of our citizens. All citizens. Acknowledging that systemic problems exist in the judicial system isn't enough. Knowing that middle class wages are stagnant while the income gap grows exponentially isn't enough. We witness what's seemingly become weekly events in our back yards where thousands our own citizens and children are gunned down indiscriminately. We mourn for a few days, are fed some talking points from a prominent lobby group via a congressional proxy and we move on.
Millions of Americans feel this isn't good enough and while you may not agree with the chosen form of protest, and are surely free to protest on your own, please don't conflate our ideas and values. Certainly don't patronize us by offering us a lecture on how much better the US is. Quite honestly, you wouldn't know. For all of our successes, there are countries to do some things better. Rather than take a pigheaded and ultra nationalist and protectionist POV, I think we'd be better served to be pragmatists rather than ideologues.
TIL.....the Bill of Rights is fluid.
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In comment 13698584 Eric from BBI said:
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And yet, people from all over the world, from every ethnic, social, political, and economic background want to come HERE. Where people can rise to heights in every corner of our society based on their ability.
Every country has issues, but I thank God every day that I was fortunate enough to be born an American. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
I'm well aware how fucked up other countries are. My family fled the CCCP in '79 and nearly three decades after the supposed perestroika, little has changed there. The day my family and I became naturalized citizens was probably the proudest day of my life.
You grew up here and the anthem and stars and stripes are a source of pride. That's great. For those of us who were born under religious, cultural, lingual, ethnic oppression under the banner of hammer and sickle, symbols don't mean a great deal.
The source of America's power isn't the flag. It's the Constitution - and specifically individual protections assured under the Bill of Rights. It's fluid and not static. You don't like the law your congress just passed? Go protest. Go try that in Moscow and you'll be joining the half dozen opposition party leaders Putin has locked up in the past 15 years. That's the best case scenario.
There are some similarities in what I've described above and the rhetoric from some elected official(s). Already we've seen the comingling of US political operatives and foreign provocateurs. We've seen the blurring of lines between branches of government. This has always happened to an extent, to be sure, but never this blatant. The final price would be an attack and dismantling of the free press. This has not happened but, once again, You be heard the rhetoric blowing that way for years.
Finally, many would argue that while no country is perfect - as you've said above - it's our obligation to seek to improve the lives of our citizens. All citizens. Acknowledging that systemic problems exist in the judicial system isn't enough. Knowing that middle class wages are stagnant while the income gap grows exponentially isn't enough. We witness what's seemingly become weekly events in our back yards where thousands our own citizens and children are gunned down indiscriminately. We mourn for a few days, are fed some talking points from a prominent lobby group via a congressional proxy and we move on.
Millions of Americans feel this isn't good enough and while you may not agree with the chosen form of protest, and are surely free to protest on your own, please don't conflate our ideas and values. Certainly don't patronize us by offering us a lecture on how much better the US is. Quite honestly, you wouldn't know. For all of our successes, there are countries to do some things better. Rather than take a pigheaded and ultra nationalist and protectionist POV, I think we'd be better served to be pragmatists rather than ideologues.
TIL.....the Bill of Rights is fluid.
It's been changed 17 times. Fluid.
Not to be confused with the types of fluids you're familiar with during your travels and exploits in the Midwest.
It's the salute to service month. They have it every year so they can sell NFL gear in camo
It's the salute to service month. They have it every year so they can sell NFL gear in camo colorways
How would we feel if one of the USA athletes who won gold knelt, sat or just didn't stand on the podium?
This issue matters greatly to me because when I look at the rest of the world for the most part, I am so glad to be an American!
This is a temper tantrum by over-indulged millionaires who don't appreciate where the butter for their bread comes from....
Best thing they can do is fire Goodell and show Joe Lockhart the door. Not a Jerry fan, but somebody has to be the bad guy and he fits the role.
I guess it depends on your perspective. In some parts of the country, especially the South, some could argue racism is alive and well. In other areas such as the DC or NY area, there is much diversity and relative racial harmony.
To say blacks are oppressed in this country is not truly accurate. Blacks have the same rights whites do. There are laws in place to make sure blacks have the same opportunities (affirmative action, Rooney Rule, etc). Some argue that these laws do more damage by creating resentment, but they also make sure that opportunities are given. African Americans have been CEOs, Movie stars, athletes, judges, lawyers, military generals, senators, congressmen, even the President.
Yes, there are still ignorant asses in this country who can't see past skin color. There is in inherent racism in many people that won't be shaken out. But there are also millions of people who don't see skin color and who see every man as equal.
I don't agree with the protests because 1) I think many are doing it to be "trendy" now, especially when they happen at the college and even high school level.
2) Have they really accomplished anything other than create more resentment?
3) I don't know the answer to this but how many of these guys who are protesting have actually stepped up to improve relations in their communities? If the majority have then hats off. If they haven't then the protest means squat.
We may not achieve the level of racial harmony we need in this country anytime soon but through educating our kids to be tolerant, loving caring individuals we can help the next generation get off on the right foot. This country is still light years ahead of the majority of the world when it comes to equal rights.
You're funny. If it fits your world view, you get very hard-headed. Its always about the money. NFL wants to make money. As much money as possible. So what? Exploiting a common cause can be a win-win. But to say its not about the money.....
Film at 11...