We have had the discussions about how the NFL has taken a hit and the ratings are suffering which in turn means less revenue.
The number of commercials and the other activities that I see now from the NFL in support of the military is overwhelming. It is obvious that they are trying to win some of their fan base back.
My wife, who never watches any games only catches a glimpse as she walks through the room with the game on.... she even noticed in the little exposure that she has to it.
B) If as a business you decide to play the anthem - then you open it up to being used by your employees to address political protest. IMO it is an instance of repression if you do this and issue penalties to those who would have differing views and act on them.
C) The NFL opened up this can of worms by intermixing state and private business. They wouldn't have to do damage control if they didn't want to use phony patriotism either in the first place; or to respond to heat generated by an inappropriate president and fans who do not understand what freedom really means.
It's similar to everyone standing for the pledge at school. You actually can't force everyone to stand for the pledge, it is only suggested that everyone stand for it. If you make it compulsory you open yourself up to civil lawsuits due to the 1943 Supreme Court case West Virginia State Board of Education vs. Barnette, where SCOTUS ruled that the 1st Amendment prohibits public schools from compulsory salute to the flag and the pledge
I doubt that is true. How can the NBA require players to stand for the National Anthem? The answer is because the players agreed to it i their CBA.
If the NFLPA agreed to it in their CBA like the NBA players did, then nothing in the SCOTUS 1943 ruling would prevent it.
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A) I don't like the politicization of the workplace. Professional sports is a private business. Having the national anthem played is a political action. How many BBIer's have the anthem played when they start work. How many other businesses that provide entertainment do not play the anthem. It is ridiculous.
B) If as a business you decide to play the anthem - then you open it up to being used by your employees to address political protest. IMO it is an instance of repression if you do this and issue penalties to those who would have differing views and act on them.
C) The NFL opened up this can of worms by intermixing state and private business. They wouldn't have to do damage control if they didn't want to use phony patriotism either in the first place; or to respond to heat generated by an inappropriate president and fans who do not understand what freedom really means.
It's similar to everyone standing for the pledge at school. You actually can't force everyone to stand for the pledge, it is only suggested that everyone stand for it. If you make it compulsory you open yourself up to civil lawsuits due to the 1943 Supreme Court case West Virginia State Board of Education vs. Barnette, where SCOTUS ruled that the 1st Amendment prohibits public schools from compulsory salute to the flag and the pledge
And most of these dip shits kneeling will eventually be out of the league in their 30's and trying to figure out how to get a job (cash flow) or to get a job as a name drop on one of the many Bravo shows of housewives and girlfriends. We even have one on our team. lol
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would prevent the NFL from forcing its players to stand for the national anthem should the players ever sue the NFL on a compulsory policy like standing for the anthem
I doubt that is true. How can the NBA require players to stand for the National Anthem? The answer is because the players agreed to it i their CBA.
If the NFLPA agreed to it in their CBA like the NBA players did, then nothing in the SCOTUS 1943 ruling would prevent it.
Don't think it was agreed to in their CBA the same way the NBA players did with theirs, but I'd have to check
The 1st Amendment generally does not constrain businesses, like the NFL, from promoting or suppressing political speech.
The 1st Amendment generally does not constrain businesses, like the NFL, from promoting or suppressing political speech.
Normally but in this case the NFL would be instituting a policy of standing for the anthem due to coercion from the federal government (Trump's twitter), which is illegal.
The 1943 SCOTUS Pledge of Allegiance ruling actually came from Jehovah's Witnesses in West Virginia who refused to salute the flag because their religion prohibited it
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so they cannot force students to stand for the anthem or pledge allegiance because it violates both the free speech clause of the 1st Amendment and one of the religious clauses (I'm pretty sure free exercise, because certain interpretations of religions won't allow you to pledge allegiance to the flag).
The 1st Amendment generally does not constrain businesses, like the NFL, from promoting or suppressing political speech.
Normally but in this case the NFL would be instituting a policy of standing for the anthem due to coercion from the federal government (Trump's twitter), which is illegal.
The 1943 SCOTUS Pledge of Allegiance ruling actually came from Jehovah's Witnesses in West Virginia who refused to salute the flag because their religion prohibited it
Whether that counts as coercion would be an interesting legal question, but one that I definitely cannot answer at the moment.
1) For reasons I have stated, I strongly applaud the players for using their fortunate position as athletes to bring attention to the underreported crisis facing minorities. They could just easily take the OJ view of ‘I’ve made millions, to heck with them’ but instead they want to risk their goodwill and fortune to help those less well off. Kudos.
Nonetheless, my football viewing is way down, and I am not one of those dodging the NFL due to anthem protests. Rather, I think my anecdote may be more reflective.
a. First, back when I grew up (90s and 00s) we had cable but no high speed internet. I could not stream my teams games in the NFL, have access to my teams newspapers and websites, and I did not have the NHL or MLB packages. Thus, I lived by sports radio, ESPN, and whatever national games I was fortunate enough to see. When football was on, it was must see TV because it pretty much was the only time I could see it. I did not have youtube or those things so I could watch whenever. Thus it has gone from can’t miss to can miss and I can be see later. I can see all of my hcokey teams games and baseball teams games-I can see all my Giants games, so I’m able to cherry pick, and thus I have much less interest in games not involving my team. I used to know the stats for all the teams in all the leagues-now-I know way more about my team but know much less about any other random team.
b. I’ve streamed about 5 Giant games this season. The quality of streams (thank you to the BBIer who told me about reddit) has been awesome. I think many others have done this-and so while we don’t count as watching over the air, we still are watching.
So, you think the players understand the financial risks they are taking? Really? Giving them that much credit huh? They are fucking morons for the most part and have been entitled since high school and probably do not think there is any risk to them. They cannot even measure the pros vs cons of hitting someone late out of bounds even though they are probably told NOT to do it over and over by their position coach.
So, you think the players understand the financial risks they are taking? Really? Giving them that much credit huh? They are fucking morons for the most part and have been entitled since high school and probably do not think there is any risk to them. They cannot even measure the pros vs cons of hitting someone late out of bounds even though they are probably told NOT to do it over and over by their position coach.
One is a decision that can be slept on, talked over with family, friends, mentors, leaders before deciding to act. The other has you sprinting and giving you less than one second to react. Same shit.
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They could just easily take the OJ view of ‘I’ve made millions, to heck with them’ but instead they want to risk their goodwill and fortune to help those less well off. Kudos.
So, you think the players understand the financial risks they are taking? Really? Giving them that much credit huh? They are fucking morons for the most part and have been entitled since high school and probably do not think there is any risk to them. They cannot even measure the pros vs cons of hitting someone late out of bounds even though they are probably told NOT to do it over and over by their position coach.
Jeez. You have an incredibly poor view of football players. Why do you bother watching such despicable people?
Fuck steps one, two and three out of the Sean Hannity Playbook. TylerAimee just threw the hailmary.
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In comment 13699649 dpinzow said:
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would prevent the NFL from forcing its players to stand for the national anthem should the players ever sue the NFL on a compulsory policy like standing for the anthem
I doubt that is true. How can the NBA require players to stand for the National Anthem? The answer is because the players agreed to it i their CBA.
If the NFLPA agreed to it in their CBA like the NBA players did, then nothing in the SCOTUS 1943 ruling would prevent it.
Don't think it was agreed to in their CBA the same way the NBA players did with theirs, but I'd have to check
Right now it's not, there is no official rule about it for the NFL - I simply said the NBA agreed to it with their players so the NFL can too, so I said "if" they agreed to it, and you know it's going to come up in the next CBA as a bargaining chip (for both sides).
NFLPA will say we want weed off the banned substance list and the NFL will say ok for "medicinal purposes" but stand for the anthem. done.
1) For reasons I have stated, I strongly applaud the players for using their fortunate position as athletes to bring attention to the underreported crisis facing minorities. They could just easily take the OJ view of ‘I’ve made millions, to heck with them’ but instead they want to risk their goodwill and fortune to help those less well off. Kudos.
Nonetheless, my football viewing is way down, and I am not one of those dodging the NFL due to anthem protests. Rather, I think my anecdote may be more reflective.
a. First, back when I grew up (90s and 00s) we had cable but no high speed internet. I could not stream my teams games in the NFL, have access to my teams newspapers and websites, and I did not have the NHL or MLB packages. Thus, I lived by sports radio, ESPN, and whatever national games I was fortunate enough to see. When football was on, it was must see TV because it pretty much was the only time I could see it. I did not have youtube or those things so I could watch whenever. Thus it has gone from can’t miss to can miss and I can be see later. I can see all of my hcokey teams games and baseball teams games-I can see all my Giants games, so I’m able to cherry pick, and thus I have much less interest in games not involving my team. I used to know the stats for all the teams in all the leagues-now-I know way more about my team but know much less about any other random team.
b. I’ve streamed about 5 Giant games this season. The quality of streams (thank you to the BBIer who told me about reddit) has been awesome. I think many others have done this-and so while we don’t count as watching over the air, we still are watching.
You can applaud them all you want and my view is that is 100% their right to protest, but actions have consequences, and don't you ever question the audience?
What if the NFL players were unhappy with their rising healthcare premiums and decided to take a knee during the Anthem as a protest?
What if it was their high taxes being in the 34% tax bracket (or whatever it is) as NFL players?
what they're doing by using that forum is lumping everyone who watches games and loves the anthem and the flag (even if that love is viewed by some people as sanctimonious or selective) and making them all guilty of oppression and being "the bad guy".
that's why there is a backlash.
If they protested outside police stations against police brutality or better yet encouraged and were involved in community outreach groups (like Shaq wound up doing post-career even becoming an police officer) or if they marched on Washington they'd get more support IMO from some of the people who find this forum and method of protest offensive or at least there would be less controversy.
And I do not think the attention they have garnered is a good thing, I think the people who already sympathized with systemic oppression still do, but they alienated people who were indifferent to it or just denied it happens.
I think they have widened a divide, not created a bridge.
Here is another cliche that may work better, "don't judge a man until you walk a mile in his shoes".
Because then you're a mile away and you have his shoes.
Jeez. You have an incredibly poor view of football players. Why do you bother watching such despicable people?
I said most are not smart enough to weigh the financial impact of their decision. "Despicable"? I don't know how you came up with that. My guess is that you don't know what that word means.
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steve
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12:01 am : link : reply
even the 1981 New York Giants highlight tape starts off with the Giants standing for the national anthem.
I've even give you a more memorable example... Whitney Houston at Super Bowl XXV. Giants were out there. We all remember it.
Sometimes players were on the sideline for the Anthem - sometimes they weren't. I'd probably guess that for the Super Bowl's the players were because of the ceremonial aspect of the game.
I remember several games in the 80's where the National Anthem would play and then we'd burst out in applause as the team would run out of the tunnel. This idea that the Anthem was sacred to the players is a complete myth. It was done out of tradition and more for the fans than anyone else. The games used to start at 1PM and the National Anthem was usually played while the teams were in the locker room after final warmups and the start of the game.
I really can only remember a handful of times - and there was usually some ceremonial function attached when a regular season game had both teams present for the anthem. For playoffs and Super Bowl's it was another story.
Not to mention, using an example that is widely known to be a lip-synched rendition of the anthem - is lip-synching respectful and patriotic? Or does it really speak to the pomp and circumstance of the whole thing?
same here. and I use "know" loosely, more like for me who I have met a few times.
Is there a word you'd have preferred to use instead of "dip shits"? It feels like maybe there is.
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Jeez. You have an incredibly poor view of football players. Why do you bother watching such despicable people?
I said most are not smart enough to weigh the financial impact of their decision. "Despicable"? I don't know how you came up with that. My guess is that you don't know what that word means.
You called them morons and entitled. You obviously have a very low opinion of the character of nfl players. I think you thinking they’re despicable is not far off. Again, why bother watching such “entitled morons”, your words, if you have such convictions about them?
1) St. Louis and San Diego moving to LA. Ratings have not improved in LA, and obviously dropped in those markets. I myself am mad at the NFL for moving.
2) Chris Berman. I know watched MNF just to see his halftime show.
1) St. Louis and San Diego moving to LA. Ratings have not improved in LA, and obviously dropped in those markets. I myself am mad at the NFL for moving.
2) Chris Berman. I know watched MNF just to see his halftime show.
If you're seriously listing Chris Berman as a reason for NFL ratings declining, you're doing it wrong. Very, very wrong. I can't even tell if this is serious. To the point where I'd rather discuss the percentage of visiting fans in every NFL stadium than entertain the notion of Chris Berman being in any way related to NFL ratings declining. I'd rather discuss the merits of having multiple favorite teams in the same sport than even pause to consider whether Chris Berman is remotely attached to NFL ratings declining. There is not even a hint of a chance that he has anything to do with the ratings. At best, his fans represent nothing more than a rounding error in the ratings.
TL;DR: No, Chris Berman absolutely does NOT have anything to do with the declining ratings.
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And yet, people from all over the world, from every ethnic, social, political, and economic background want to come HERE. Where people can rise to heights in every corner of our society based on their ability.
Every country has issues, but I thank God every day that I was fortunate enough to be born an American. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
I'm well aware how fucked up other countries are. My family fled the CCCP in '79 and nearly three decades after the supposed perestroika, little has changed there. The day my family and I became naturalized citizens was probably the proudest day of my life.
You grew up here and the anthem and stars and stripes are a source of pride. That's great. For those of us who were born under religious, cultural, lingual, ethnic oppression under the banner of hammer and sickle, symbols don't mean a great deal.
The source of America's power isn't the flag. It's the Constitution - and specifically individual protections assured under the Bill of Rights. It's fluid and not static. You don't like the law your congress just passed? Go protest. Go try that in Moscow and you'll be joining the half dozen opposition party leaders Putin has locked up in the past 15 years. That's the best case scenario.
There are some similarities in what I've described above and the rhetoric from some elected official(s). Already we've seen the comingling of US political operatives and foreign provocateurs. We've seen the blurring of lines between branches of government. This has always happened to an extent, to be sure, but never this blatant. The final price would be an attack and dismantling of the free press. This has not happened but, once again, You be heard the rhetoric blowing that way for years.
Finally, many would argue that while no country is perfect - as you've said above - it's our obligation to seek to improve the lives of our citizens. All citizens. Acknowledging that systemic problems exist in the judicial system isn't enough. Knowing that middle class wages are stagnant while the income gap grows exponentially isn't enough. We witness what's seemingly become weekly events in our back yards where thousands our own citizens and children are gunned down indiscriminately. We mourn for a few days, are fed some talking points from a prominent lobby group via a congressional proxy and we move on.
Millions of Americans feel this isn't good enough and while you may not agree with the chosen form of protest, and are surely free to protest on your own, please don't conflate our ideas and values. Certainly don't patronize us by offering us a lecture on how much better the US is. Quite honestly, you wouldn't know. For all of our successes, there are countries to do some things better. Rather than take a pigheaded and ultra nationalist and protectionist POV, I think we'd be better served to be pragmatists rather than ideologues.
BRAVO Modus!!! I haven't read through the entire thread, but I doubt there are any posts that express my feelings as well as this one. I was a conservative Republican (I hope its permissable to mention that) for the first 60 years of my life, so I understand Eric's perspective, but I've come around 180 degrees in the past few years and tried hard to appreciate other views and not just simplistic and un-nuanced, rigid beliefs.
Stay away from the ledge clown.
78% of NFL players are bankrupt or in financial stress within 2 years of leaving the league.
Not particularly impressive.
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I'm extremely impressed with the players I have come to know over the years.
78% of NFL players are bankrupt or in financial stress within 2 years of leaving the league.
Not particularly impressive.
Being young and not having an understanding of money doesn't equate to being stupid.
I suspect you'd find similar results if you examined everyday 25 year olds. Forget kids. Half of Americans have nothing put away for retirement. One in three have nothing in a savings/checking account, living paycheck to paycheck. If that isn't financial stress, I don't know what is.
But they aren't stupid. Just the football players who have a different POV than some mouthy shithead on a message board.