He got to the rim once AND finished (although nobody was at the rim to stop him).
That ugly step back doesn't work with nobody worrying about him on the drive. Still nothing to offer offensively in the half court. They let him wide open all day. His guy helping others. That will continue.
Ingram is the guy. He can get to the rim at will. Excellent quicks. If he gets a half a step he's tough. He should continue to work on the handle and keeping his head up. Eventually he can be the primary ball handler in the half court.
RE: Not even mad about this loss, or Lonzo's game. Â
They let him wide open all day. His guy helping others. That will continue.
Ingram is the guy. He can get to the rim at will. Excellent quicks. If he gets a half a step he's tough. He should continue to work on the handle and keeping his head up. Eventually he can be the primary ball handler in the half court.
That's what I've been saying - teams are sagging off LoBalls and begging him to shoot. He'll hit a few once in a while to inspire false hope, but it won't last until that hideous stroke gets fixed.
Ingram is interesting. Has the desired, current NBA body - just long everywhere. Reminds me of with his temperament of Kawhi and a bit of Greek Freak-lite body...
The stroke doesn't impact wide open 3s. But it will prevent him from being able to make any other shot.
Remember Shawn Marion's shot?
He shot a set shot from his chin. He could only get it off on wide open 3s. With the shooters they has (and Nash) he got some wide open looks for the 3. Over the years his 3 pt shooting % reach respectable.
But he couldn't change his release and he never developed anything else in the half court.
Marion's a lot bigger and more athletic then Ball. He got offensive boards and dunks.
What is Ball going to do with that release?
Right now, he can't do anything accept shoot a wide open 3.
Late in the 4th, did you see him try and take on Durant in isolation? Durant let him dribble. He didn't want to try to get past him so he did an ugly step back to his left. The step back left? That's all he has to get a shot off.
like "you can teach somebody to shoot well, but you can't teach vision or instincts", yet there are very few cases in the NBA of players that dramatically improved their shooting or have gone from a terrible shooting % to a decent one.
The mechanics of shooting are very difficult to not just fix - but to even improve, especially for guards. Mid to long range jumpers have separated NCAA players from the NBA players for many years, and each year we see guards come out that can't make the transition.
That's right. Changing LoBalls stroke is a major reclamation project. That's a lot of years of muscle memory to unwind. It'll be one thing to change the mechanics in practice sessions. But then it has to convey to game situations.
Oddly enough, his release point is pretty good as he gets good rotation on the ball. The wind-up though is killing his accuracy and ball trajectory...
Don't know if either of you have ever played or played for an extended period but at 19, his shot is most certainly correctable. There are many factors that influence good shot mechanics and if I were the Lakers, I would be focusing on his mid-range shot. Forget getting accurate on 3s. If he gets to where he can create off the dribble and become a threat at mid-range, this will cause Ds to play him tighter which will then give him other options to create for teammates.
But again, point being that his shot is correctable. It will take some dedicated work and lots of reps in practice but it can be done with the right coaching.
Don't know if either of you have ever played or played for an extended period but at 19, his shot is most certainly correctable. There are many factors that influence good shot mechanics and if I were the Lakers, I would be focusing on his mid-range shot. Forget getting accurate on 3s. If he gets to where he can create off the dribble and become a threat at mid-range, this will cause Ds to play him tighter which will then give him other options to create for teammates.
But again, point being that his shot is correctable. It will take some dedicated work and lots of reps in practice but it can be done with the right coaching.
Yes, I've played for a long time, and I have coached. I never said Ball couldn't change his shot. But it's going to take considerable time to break it down and rebuild it. And rebuild it where it's actually better and more reliable.
That right elbow is all of screwed up. It's not as bad as Michael Kidd Gilchrist's (a total disaster) but it's nowhere near being straight and perpendicular to the rim. Further, he needs to get away from his dad because he dad actually thinks the stroke is fine. So that is a hurdle for the Lakers...
I am very familiar with Marion. Right, he had a push shot with not a lot of extension, and more of a flick. But he was good at keeping his body square. Which certainly helps...
Remember Jamaal Wilkes? He had a contorted, behind the head take back. But somehow got back to a decent release point...like a Jim Furyk golf swing...
you conveniently left out his rebound to make his stat line look like shit.
Are you serious?
I never joke around on the internet. BigBlue4You purposely leaving out his rebound clearly showing his bias against the kid. It's interesting that he also failed to mention Lonzo shot 100% from the free throw line, which tied the single game record for percentage and he is only 20 years old.
you conveniently left out his rebound to make his stat line look like shit.
Are you serious?
I never joke around on the internet. BigBlue4You purposely leaving out his rebound clearly showing his bias against the kid. It's interesting that he also failed to mention Lonzo shot 100% from the free throw line, which tied the single game record for percentage and he is only 20 years old.
you conveniently left out his rebound to make his stat line look like shit.
Are you serious?
I never joke around on the internet. BigBlue4You purposely leaving out his rebound clearly showing his bias against the kid. It's interesting that he also failed to mention Lonzo shot 100% from the free throw line, which tied the single game record for percentage and he is only 20 years old.
HAHA you're a good sport. I actually wish the kid well in spite of his father and Stan.
His inefficiency as a high-minutes player basically makes winning impossible.
I posted days ago he has one the lowest FTA/minutes in the entire NBA . It's a clear sign he isn't getting to the rack or creating. A clear problem with his game that is obvious when you watch him over many games. He doesn't attack. Very Passive. Gives the ball up early before even bringing it up to others and runs to the corner. Yes. He runs to the corner 3 often.
Quote:
Free throw attempts and free throw rate are good reference points for how much pressure a player puts on an opposing interior defense, to say nothing of the accumulation of fouls being a net negative for your opposition.
Quote:
.... has the free throw rate of, like, Pat Connaughton. The lack of scoring aggression is an actual problem—the Lakers have the third-worst offensive rating in the entire league, and Lonzo’s personal offensive rating is a full point lower than the team’s overall number. They’re a really bad offensive team, and a worse one when Lonzo is on the court
Yes the shooting is brutal.
Quote:
Emmanuel Mudiay, for example, struggled mightily his rookie season, posting just a 43.7 True Shooting percentage, and becoming something of a reference point for dismal rookie guard play. Lonzo’s efficiency, on the other hand, is in a category of its own: his True Shooting percentage, today, is sitting at 38.3 percent.
Most of his shots are 3s when left open. Rarely attempts a shot off the dribble. Can't penetrate either.
Quote:
“interesting NBA prospect” is an extremely generous way of saying “he throws some nice hit-ahead passes in semi-transition”—Ball is having a downright nightmarish rookie campaign
Time to short the BBB stock. It's bad now. I expect it to get even worse the rest of the year.
This thread and it’s ability to stay alive (i realize I’m helping that by posting this) is really crazy. If this were a Giant rookie we’d all be saying “give him some time”. Let it go.
If this were a Giant rookie we’d all be saying “give him some time”. Let it go
It's more like if a guy came on the board to tell us a giants #1 pick rookie was going to the HoF, how he's going to immediately dominate and then he goes out and looks like a UDFA for half of a season.
If this were a Giant rookie we’d all be saying “give him some time”. Let it go
It's more like if a guy came on the board to tell us a giants #1 pick rookie was going to the HoF, how he's going to immediately dominate and then he goes out and looks like a UDFA for half of a season.
I see your point a bit, but I think people are being a bit overly negative because of the poster in question. It’s easy to want to hate Ball. Seems to be a family of deplorables. But he’s going to get better and though his shooting is terrible he’s got other aspects to his game. He can rebound, pass, plays good D (as far as defensive efficiency metrics are concerned). I just think it’s too early to label him a bust or to say he sucks. Much the same as it’s too early anoint him a Hall of Famer.
But I’m not debating the player. Just find it odd that people can’t agree to disagree and feel the need to rehash this with every passing game.
People say his shooting will improve. I'm not convinced. Â
Jayson Tatum's 3 point percentage (51.3%) is higher than Lonzo Ball's free throw percentage (50%)
Tatum shoots a higher % while taking a lot more 3s than Ball takes FTs. More than double per game. He makes more 3s than Ball FTA for Ball. He never gets to the line.
Still don't like how everyone, fans and media both, Â
make this a Lonzo/Simmons thing. It really ignores the story that Ingram is building. Dude is turning into a major player and he was the one drafted behind Simmons.
once they fix that sidewinder slingshot bullshit in the offseason. Magic has already brought it up.
Last night was Lonzo's best all around game of the season.
And LT56, both Lonzo and Simmons should be embarrassed about their FT shooting. 50% and 55% for the two of them. Shame.
I don't care what Magic says, that shot style is going to take at least two years to improve. And it's going to get worse before it gets better if they actually go through with it. He's had that shot style for 15 years+. That is deeply embedded muscle memory.
with a Lithuanian team that is truly low-level - and they're not expected to get playing time in the regular league games, just in some lower-level competition that the club also plays in. Quite the power move.
Lonzo catches everyone sleeping. - ( New Window )
He got to the rim once AND finished (although nobody was at the rim to stop him).
That ugly step back doesn't work with nobody worrying about him on the drive. Still nothing to offer offensively in the half court. They let him wide open all day. His guy helping others. That will continue.
Ingram is the guy. He can get to the rim at will. Excellent quicks. If he gets a half a step he's tough. He should continue to work on the handle and keeping his head up. Eventually he can be the primary ball handler in the half court.
Not sure why you should worry about Steph.
Should pose no problem for Lonzo - ( New Window )
Ingram is the guy. He can get to the rim at will. Excellent quicks. If he gets a half a step he's tough. He should continue to work on the handle and keeping his head up. Eventually he can be the primary ball handler in the half court.
That's what I've been saying - teams are sagging off LoBalls and begging him to shoot. He'll hit a few once in a while to inspire false hope, but it won't last until that hideous stroke gets fixed.
Ingram is interesting. Has the desired, current NBA body - just long everywhere. Reminds me of with his temperament of Kawhi and a bit of Greek Freak-lite body...
Remember Shawn Marion's shot?
He shot a set shot from his chin. He could only get it off on wide open 3s. With the shooters they has (and Nash) he got some wide open looks for the 3. Over the years his 3 pt shooting % reach respectable.
But he couldn't change his release and he never developed anything else in the half court.
Marion's a lot bigger and more athletic then Ball. He got offensive boards and dunks.
What is Ball going to do with that release?
Right now, he can't do anything accept shoot a wide open 3.
Late in the 4th, did you see him try and take on Durant in isolation? Durant let him dribble. He didn't want to try to get past him so he did an ugly step back to his left. The step back left? That's all he has to get a shot off.
Quote:
like "you can teach somebody to shoot well, but you can't teach vision or instincts", yet there are very few cases in the NBA of players that dramatically improved their shooting or have gone from a terrible shooting % to a decent one.
The mechanics of shooting are very difficult to not just fix - but to even improve, especially for guards. Mid to long range jumpers have separated NCAA players from the NBA players for many years, and each year we see guards come out that can't make the transition.
That's right. Changing LoBalls stroke is a major reclamation project. That's a lot of years of muscle memory to unwind. It'll be one thing to change the mechanics in practice sessions. But then it has to convey to game situations.
Oddly enough, his release point is pretty good as he gets good rotation on the ball. The wind-up though is killing his accuracy and ball trajectory...
Don't know if either of you have ever played or played for an extended period but at 19, his shot is most certainly correctable. There are many factors that influence good shot mechanics and if I were the Lakers, I would be focusing on his mid-range shot. Forget getting accurate on 3s. If he gets to where he can create off the dribble and become a threat at mid-range, this will cause Ds to play him tighter which will then give him other options to create for teammates.
But again, point being that his shot is correctable. It will take some dedicated work and lots of reps in practice but it can be done with the right coaching.
Quote:
In comment 13708090 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Don't know if either of you have ever played or played for an extended period but at 19, his shot is most certainly correctable. There are many factors that influence good shot mechanics and if I were the Lakers, I would be focusing on his mid-range shot. Forget getting accurate on 3s. If he gets to where he can create off the dribble and become a threat at mid-range, this will cause Ds to play him tighter which will then give him other options to create for teammates.
But again, point being that his shot is correctable. It will take some dedicated work and lots of reps in practice but it can be done with the right coaching.
Yes, I've played for a long time, and I have coached. I never said Ball couldn't change his shot. But it's going to take considerable time to break it down and rebuild it. And rebuild it where it's actually better and more reliable.
That right elbow is all of screwed up. It's not as bad as Michael Kidd Gilchrist's (a total disaster) but it's nowhere near being straight and perpendicular to the rim. Further, he needs to get away from his dad because he dad actually thinks the stroke is fine. So that is a hurdle for the Lakers...
Remember Jamaal Wilkes? He had a contorted, behind the head take back. But somehow got back to a decent release point...like a Jim Furyk golf swing...
Walton didn't play him in the 2nd half. After the game Walton mentioned his lack of energy. Not a good sign.
Are you serious?
Quote:
you conveniently left out his rebound to make his stat line look like shit.
Are you serious?
I never joke around on the internet. BigBlue4You purposely leaving out his rebound clearly showing his bias against the kid. It's interesting that he also failed to mention Lonzo shot 100% from the free throw line, which tied the single game record for percentage and he is only 20 years old.
Quote:
In comment 13721523 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
you conveniently left out his rebound to make his stat line look like shit.
Are you serious?
I never joke around on the internet. BigBlue4You purposely leaving out his rebound clearly showing his bias against the kid. It's interesting that he also failed to mention Lonzo shot 100% from the free throw line, which tied the single game record for percentage and he is only 20 years old.
LMAO
Is he a little banged up? He played like it.
Calf issue coming into the game last night according to Luke.
Quote:
In comment 13721523 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
you conveniently left out his rebound to make his stat line look like shit.
Are you serious?
I never joke around on the internet. BigBlue4You purposely leaving out his rebound clearly showing his bias against the kid. It's interesting that he also failed to mention Lonzo shot 100% from the free throw line, which tied the single game record for percentage and he is only 20 years old.
HAHA you're a good sport. I actually wish the kid well in spite of his father and Stan.
I posted days ago he has one the lowest FTA/minutes in the entire NBA . It's a clear sign he isn't getting to the rack or creating. A clear problem with his game that is obvious when you watch him over many games. He doesn't attack. Very Passive. Gives the ball up early before even bringing it up to others and runs to the corner. Yes. He runs to the corner 3 often.
Yes the shooting is brutal.
Emmanuel Mudiay, for example, struggled mightily his rookie season, posting just a 43.7 True Shooting percentage, and becoming something of a reference point for dismal rookie guard play. Lonzo’s efficiency, on the other hand, is in a category of its own: his True Shooting percentage, today, is sitting at 38.3 percent.
Most of his shots are 3s when left open. Rarely attempts a shot off the dribble. Can't penetrate either.
Time to short the BBB stock. It's bad now. I expect it to get even worse the rest of the year.
Brutal and accurate assessment of Lonzo - ( New Window )
In fairness to you Stan, Lonzo also had 3 steals and 4 blocks tonight. That's a very interesting line.
I have no dog in this hunt but I do find this thread entertaining ...
Ball sucks.
Ball sucks.
It’s pretty pathetic, look at other rookies like aTatum and this is an average night. Ball 0-3 from Fowntown, Tatum leading the league in 3% lol
Ingram impressive again.
Until you're willing to come onto the thread after Ball goes 0-4 with 2 points, kindly STFU.
Quote:
Leading to upset of 76'ers on the road. But he sucks, right?
Until you're willing to come onto the thread after Ball goes 0-4 with 2 points, kindly STFU.
Won’t happen. Stan is a pussy shit stirrer. This is literally all he does.
It's more like if a guy came on the board to tell us a giants #1 pick rookie was going to the HoF, how he's going to immediately dominate and then he goes out and looks like a UDFA for half of a season.
Quote:
If this were a Giant rookie we’d all be saying “give him some time”. Let it go
It's more like if a guy came on the board to tell us a giants #1 pick rookie was going to the HoF, how he's going to immediately dominate and then he goes out and looks like a UDFA for half of a season.
I see your point a bit, but I think people are being a bit overly negative because of the poster in question. It’s easy to want to hate Ball. Seems to be a family of deplorables. But he’s going to get better and though his shooting is terrible he’s got other aspects to his game. He can rebound, pass, plays good D (as far as defensive efficiency metrics are concerned). I just think it’s too early to label him a bust or to say he sucks. Much the same as it’s too early anoint him a Hall of Famer.
But I’m not debating the player. Just find it odd that people can’t agree to disagree and feel the need to rehash this with every passing game.
Quote:
In comment 13729679 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
Leading to upset of 76'ers on the road. But he sucks, right?
Until you're willing to come onto the thread after Ball goes 0-4 with 2 points, kindly STFU.
Won’t happen. Stan is a pussy shit stirrer. This is literally all he does.
Yep full blown troll
Last night was Lonzo's best all around game of the season.
And LT56, both Lonzo and Simmons should be embarrassed about their FT shooting. 50% and 55% for the two of them. Shame.
It was a fun game to watch. I watched more if it than Saints Falcons.
Great thread. You know the guy was doomed after Stan endorsed him as the next great one.
One of the ironclad laws of the universe.
Tatum shoots a higher % while taking a lot more 3s than Ball takes FTs. More than double per game. He makes more 3s than Ball FTA for Ball. He never gets to the line.
Last night was Lonzo's best all around game of the season.
And LT56, both Lonzo and Simmons should be embarrassed about their FT shooting. 50% and 55% for the two of them. Shame.
I don't care what Magic says, that shot style is going to take at least two years to improve. And it's going to get worse before it gets better if they actually go through with it. He's had that shot style for 15 years+. That is deeply embedded muscle memory.
well, at least Lithuania is near Latvia - ( New Window )
-11 in the plus/minus - the worst on the team in an OT loss.
Not going to say he sucks, but he wasn't that good. Right?