double-double to brag about, just look at Porzingas last night.
Skinny dude from Eastern Europe who got trashed for being "overdrafted" gets 37 and 11.
When Ball comes anywhere close to that - post it.
I don't like making it about points only. The 11 part of that will happen plenty for Lonzo. Doesn't seem like a fair comparison between one player that came into the draft with his best quality being shooting/scoring and the other player coming in known for assists, rebounds and tempo.
He's not nearly as bad as KWALL keeps trying to convince everyone, but I don't see superstar with him. He's not a strong defender, but he has good instincts. He's got really good court vision and a good ability to pass the ball. As he goes through the league, teams will prevent those long court passes, but he's good running the court with the ball in his hands. I don't ever see him as a good shooter and I think best case scenario is a passable shooter. If he learns to be more aggressive more often, he'll be able to get to the rim though.
with the fire of a thousand suns and it clouds my judgment on Lonzo because I consider him an enabler.
But only focusing on the court, there are some things that Lonzo does incredibly well. The way he can push the tempo from an outlet or a made basket and make great downcourt passes is a skillset that few possess in the league and few have possessed at this level at such a young age. And while he isn't a good one-on-one defender, he has quick instincts and so he will make some key plays forcing turnovers because he has a really good nose for the ball. There is a lot for him to work on with his shot, but he brings a lot of excitement to a young team.
-11 in the plus/minus - the worst on the team in an OT loss.
Not going to say he sucks, but he wasn't that good. Right?
As I said earlier in the thread when some used +/- to defend Lonzo, it is a poor indicator for a single player, and a terrible one-game stat. It is meant to evaluate 5-man groups over a period of time, so people should stop using it as an indicator of a player's defensive abilities. It is pointless.
I thought Ball and Frank both had games that were about as good Â
as the other's. I like both players and think both will have special careers as they develop. Both are good passing pg's, but Ball is a little better. Frank has a big edge defensively.
-11 in the plus/minus - the worst on the team in an OT loss.
Not going to say he sucks, but he wasn't that good. Right?
As I said earlier in the thread when some used +/- to defend Lonzo, it is a poor indicator for a single player, and a terrible one-game stat. It is meant to evaluate 5-man groups over a period of time, so people should stop using it as an indicator of a player's defensive abilities. It is pointless.
It was a pretty good indication last night. He was the worst player on the floor early in the game and then as soon as he came out, the replacements played great.
Astonishingly limited player. He throws a nice outlet pass. That's what he offers on offense. Miles to go before this player can be part of a winning team.
He can't even take a pull up jumper. It's a basic move and he can't do it. Can't come off a screen and shoot. Another simple move and he can't do it. Long term it won't work.
The other rookie is a player. Lakers saved the draft there.
“The kid hasn’t said anything,” James told ESPN when asked about the hype surrounding Ball. “It’s been everybody else. So, I love his humility. He goes out, every time someone asks him a question, he says, ‘This is not about me, man. I just want to win. I don’t care about what I did.’ I seen he had a triple-double one game and they lost. He was like, ‘I don’t care. We lost.’
“So, can I draw any parallel to my experience? I mean, of course. I guess when you’re drafted to a franchise, they want you to kind of be the savior. And it takes a while. I mean, listen, man, this guy is 20-something games into his pro career. S— doesn’t happen [that fast]. Here it goes again, it goes back to my instant oatmeal [quote]: Everybody wants it right away. Can he play ball? Absolutely. The kid can play ball. Do guys want to play with him? Absolutely, because it’s a guy who is not about him. It’s about the success of the team. And he gives the ball up, and he passes the ball, and there’s energy behind the ball.”
some other stats: 6 turnovers, a terrible plus/minus (again) and his team lost (again). Stan - you're not getting it. It's not that he "sucks"; it's just that he's not all that good right now. He's young, that may change. But don't keep setting up the "sucks" straw man every night. His team keeps losing and he's far from the best player on it.
and makes at least several long pass assists per game that are amazing. So he's got some cool skills. I haven't seen yet that he's a winner. The Knicks' much maligned Frank took Lonzo out of the game at crunch time the other night - Knicks won and the Lakers lost, in large part because Frank is better at winning games at crunch time. Frank did it again against the Nets tonight. Lonzo will make several highlight reel plays per game, and they are indeed amazing - but I haven't seen the game winning killer instinct from him yet. Maybe it will come. Don't hate the guy - just don't like Stan's "sucks" formulation every night the Lakers play.
RE: from what I've seen, Lonzo is an excellent rebounder for a point guard Â
and makes at least several long pass assists per game that are amazing. So he's got some cool skills. I haven't seen yet that he's a winner. The Knicks' much maligned Frank took Lonzo out of the game at crunch time the other night - Knicks won and the Lakers lost, in large part because Frank is better at winning games at crunch time. Frank did it again against the Nets tonight. Lonzo will make several highlight reel plays per game, and they are indeed amazing - but I haven't seen the game winning killer instinct from him yet. Maybe it will come. Don't hate the guy - just don't like Stan's "sucks" formulation every night the Lakers play.
It's not really every night the Lakers play. It's every time Lonzo has a solid line in the box score. When Lonzo's numbers are pedestrian, Scam in LA doesn't show up.
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 8:36 pm : link : reply
His biggest problem is he can't even attempt a shot in the mid range game. He also can't go right and take a jumper. Can't pull up and shoot.
Quote:
KWALL2 : 12/13/2017 2:24 pm : link : reply
He can't even take a pull up jumper. It's a basic move and he can't do it. Can't come off a screen and shoot. Another simple move and he can't do it.
I'm not talking about points. He did a nice job on defense and for the first time in 2 years, he hit a mid range shot. He banked it from the free throw line without calling glass but it went in.
He showed more aggression. That's a step in the right direction. He still has nothing in the half court. There is no offensive game here. Defenders ignore him and will continue to and help others.
fellow rookie Kuzma goes 38/7/4 with 0 turnovers on 12-for-17 shooting, but of course the Stain in LA thinks they beat Houston because of Lonzo's 16/9/4 with 5 turnovers on 5-for-14 shooting.
Stan, it must be hard work being so unlikable for so long on a consistent basis.
How does such a mediocre player deserve a thread that lasts the entire season? I guess when Stan keeps bumping it every time Lonzo goes 3-25 from the field it’s going to have some staying power but good lord.
I can’t wait to see how impressed Stan is when Lonzo is dominating his fathers league with his brothers in a few years. That will be epic. I look forward to his threads stating:
“18-9-7 in a dramatic comeback victory for the Napa Valley Wineries tonight. Yep, he sucks...”
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 8:36 pm : link : reply
His biggest problem is he can't even attempt a shot in the mid range game. He also can't go right and take a jumper. Can't pull up and shoot.
Quote:
KWALL2 : 12/13/2017 2:24 pm : link : reply
He can't even take a pull up jumper. It's a basic move and he can't do it. Can't come off a screen and shoot. Another simple move and he can't do it.
When you're right you're right. - ( New Window )
did you listen to the clip? Announcer says, "thats the best looking jump shot hes taken all year"
But he still sucks at this point. The one thing to note is he seems to understand his limitations.
In the half court he does nothing but give the ball up early. almost always before he even crossed the 3 pt line.
Quote:
the average time Ball keeps the ball beyond the half-court line is 2.11 seconds, the fastest in the league among starting point guards.
He understands the team is better with the ball in the hands of the other guys. So he gets points there.
If you watch him you can see the limitations in the half court. He's terrible on pick and rolls because he is not threat to shoot or drive. Maybe that will change. Who knows. I got to say the clip filthy posted looked like he made a change on that release. But he never attempts that shot. That has to change.
More about his weakness going to the basket?
Quote:
His deception resides in his ability to thread needles with his passes, not in changing speeds, something at which he doesn't excel and which hurts him as a penetrator. Through Dec. 19, he ranked 134th of 135 in effective field goal percentage in the lane
Quote:
"He's a bigger Ricky Rubio. ... I just don't see how he'll move the needle in terms of wins and losses unless you can get out on the break 50 times a game."
An NBA general manager, on Lonzo Ball
More about his weakness in the half court which I think is a huge problem.
Quote:
From an NBA Scout:
half-court scoring is really important in the NBA, especially in the playoffs. Can you beat your man off the dribble when the shot clock is winding down? Can you score against a power forward on a switch? Can you shoot on the move? The answer is we don't know."
The answer right now is "No. he can't do it". He's a liability in the half court and makes it easier for teams to drop off and help on others. Questions About Lonzo - ( New Window )
speaking of the brothers Ball - interesting article in today's NYT Â
about how Lonzo's younger brothers ended up signing with a low-level team in Lithuania, with a lot of flavor from the Lithuanian side. I've spent some time in eastern Europe and I love reading stuff like this. Who knows how it's going to go from a hoops point of view, though. Balls in Lithuania - ( New Window )
24/5/5 night against the Warriors who can't stop him. Â
oh no - Lonzo didn't suck but he wasn't good either! - ( New Window )
You need serious help.
Skinny dude from Eastern Europe who got trashed for being "overdrafted" gets 37 and 11.
When Ball comes anywhere close to that - post it.
Skinny dude from Eastern Europe who got trashed for being "overdrafted" gets 37 and 11.
When Ball comes anywhere close to that - post it.
I don't like making it about points only. The 11 part of that will happen plenty for Lonzo. Doesn't seem like a fair comparison between one player that came into the draft with his best quality being shooting/scoring and the other player coming in known for assists, rebounds and tempo.
If you gave Porzingis' father courtside seats, he'd probably go unnoticed.
But only focusing on the court, there are some things that Lonzo does incredibly well. The way he can push the tempo from an outlet or a made basket and make great downcourt passes is a skillset that few possess in the league and few have possessed at this level at such a young age. And while he isn't a good one-on-one defender, he has quick instincts and so he will make some key plays forcing turnovers because he has a really good nose for the ball. There is a lot for him to work on with his shot, but he brings a lot of excitement to a young team.
-11 in the plus/minus - the worst on the team in an OT loss.
Not going to say he sucks, but he wasn't that good. Right?
As I said earlier in the thread when some used +/- to defend Lonzo, it is a poor indicator for a single player, and a terrible one-game stat. It is meant to evaluate 5-man groups over a period of time, so people should stop using it as an indicator of a player's defensive abilities. It is pointless.
BrettNYG10 : 9:39 am : link : reply
I just assume everyone is lying/joking.
Quote:
-11 in the plus/minus - the worst on the team in an OT loss.
Not going to say he sucks, but he wasn't that good. Right?
As I said earlier in the thread when some used +/- to defend Lonzo, it is a poor indicator for a single player, and a terrible one-game stat. It is meant to evaluate 5-man groups over a period of time, so people should stop using it as an indicator of a player's defensive abilities. It is pointless.
It was a pretty good indication last night. He was the worst player on the floor early in the game and then as soon as he came out, the replacements played great.
He can't even take a pull up jumper. It's a basic move and he can't do it. Can't come off a screen and shoot. Another simple move and he can't do it. Long term it won't work.
The other rookie is a player. Lakers saved the draft there.
“So, can I draw any parallel to my experience? I mean, of course. I guess when you’re drafted to a franchise, they want you to kind of be the savior. And it takes a while. I mean, listen, man, this guy is 20-something games into his pro career. S— doesn’t happen [that fast]. Here it goes again, it goes back to my instant oatmeal [quote]: Everybody wants it right away. Can he play ball? Absolutely. The kid can play ball. Do guys want to play with him? Absolutely, because it’s a guy who is not about him. It’s about the success of the team. And he gives the ball up, and he passes the ball, and there’s energy behind the ball.”
Hope we get a decent package for him.
Hope we get a decent package for him.
Just shows Lebron the GM blows. Wiggins >> Lonzo
some other stats: 6 turnovers, a terrible plus/minus (again) and his team lost (again). Stan - you're not getting it. It's not that he "sucks"; it's just that he's not all that good right now. He's young, that may change. But don't keep setting up the "sucks" straw man every night. His team keeps losing and he's far from the best player on it.
You do realize this thread only has traction because you suck, not because Lonzo does, right?
It's not really every night the Lakers play. It's every time Lonzo has a solid line in the box score. When Lonzo's numbers are pedestrian, Scam in LA doesn't show up.
fkn perfection - ( New Window )
That is t happening.
He does throw a very nice outlet pass. It isn't "highlight reel" stuff and he sure doesn't have several per game.
Brook Lopez (NSFW) - ( New Window )
His biggest problem is he can't even attempt a shot in the mid range game. He also can't go right and take a jumper. Can't pull up and shoot.
He can't even take a pull up jumper. It's a basic move and he can't do it. Can't come off a screen and shoot. Another simple move and he can't do it.
When you're right you're right. - ( New Window )
Actually, LoBalls only had a good overtime. Before the OT? He hardly distinguished himself.
He showed more aggression. That's a step in the right direction. He still has nothing in the half court. There is no offensive game here. Defenders ignore him and will continue to and help others.
Scam doesn't watch the games. He only comments on the box score. He wouldn't have known that.
Cool.
Cool.
On 5 for 14 shooting & 5 TOs. You're adorable.
Stan, it must be hard work being so unlikable for so long on a consistent basis.
Cool.
Looking more and more like Magic drafted wrong - he should have taken Kuzman 2nd, LoBalls 27th.
Quote:
In stopping Houston's 14 game winning streak in Houston.
Cool.
Looking more and more like Magic drafted wrong - he should have taken Kuzman 2nd, LoBalls 27th.
Not even worthy of the 27th pick. Imagine if they took Tatum at 2 😵
I can’t wait to see how impressed Stan is when Lonzo is dominating his fathers league with his brothers in a few years. That will be epic. I look forward to his threads stating:
“18-9-7 in a dramatic comeback victory for the Napa Valley Wineries tonight. Yep, he sucks...”
Quote:
Not even worthy of the 27th pick. Imagine if they took Tatum at 2 😵
Clearly, the front runners for RoTY...
Quote:
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 8:36 pm : link : reply
His biggest problem is he can't even attempt a shot in the mid range game. He also can't go right and take a jumper. Can't pull up and shoot.
Quote:
KWALL2 : 12/13/2017 2:24 pm : link : reply
He can't even take a pull up jumper. It's a basic move and he can't do it. Can't come off a screen and shoot. Another simple move and he can't do it.
When you're right you're right. - ( New Window )
did you listen to the clip? Announcer says, "thats the best looking jump shot hes taken all year"
But he still sucks at this point. The one thing to note is he seems to understand his limitations.
In the half court he does nothing but give the ball up early. almost always before he even crossed the 3 pt line.
He understands the team is better with the ball in the hands of the other guys. So he gets points there.
If you watch him you can see the limitations in the half court. He's terrible on pick and rolls because he is not threat to shoot or drive. Maybe that will change. Who knows. I got to say the clip filthy posted looked like he made a change on that release. But he never attempts that shot. That has to change.
More about his weakness going to the basket?
An NBA general manager, on Lonzo Ball
More about his weakness in the half court which I think is a huge problem.
half-court scoring is really important in the NBA, especially in the playoffs. Can you beat your man off the dribble when the shot clock is winding down? Can you score against a power forward on a switch? Can you shoot on the move? The answer is we don't know."
The answer right now is "No. he can't do it". He's a liability in the half court and makes it easier for teams to drop off and help on others.
Questions About Lonzo - ( New Window )
Balls in Lithuania - ( New Window )
(both via Reddit)