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NFT: MLB Talk 11-20

superspynyg : 11/20/2017 10:32 am
Marlins have received trade offers for Stanton from the Giants, Cardinals, and possibly the Red Sox. Stanton has said he wont go to Sox or Cards. Not sure why not the Cards. They have the trade power with 3 top prospect arms. Not sure who they offered.

JD Martinez agent wants 200 mil for his guy. Martinez is a very good player but not sure he is worth that. He will prob get it though.

MLB and Japan have agreed to extend the posting agreement one year and list Otani under the extension. Just waiting for Players Union to agree to it. I don't see why they would not agree. Due to his age he would have to sign a minor league deal and would be subject just like all other. Rangers have the most money 3.5 mil and the Yanks are just under that with 3.3 mil.

Not sure if any deals will be done before Thanksgiving.
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Rumors say today may be the day  
GiantFilthy : 11/20/2017 10:39 am : link
that the league drops the hammer on the Braves. I am prepared.
RE: Rumors say today may be the day  
superspynyg : 11/20/2017 10:43 am : link
In comment 13699000 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
that the league drops the hammer on the Braves. I am prepared.


Do you think they will lose top prospect Acuna?
RE: RE: Rumors say today may be the day  
Jay on the Island : 11/20/2017 11:00 am : link
In comment 13699006 superspynyg said:
Quote:
In comment 13699000 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


that the league drops the hammer on the Braves. I am prepared.



Do you think they will lose top prospect Acuna?

There is NO way that Acuna is in danger. Maitan is certainly gone and Severino, Soto, J Contreras, Gutierrez, and Soto are possible too. It is even possible that Christian Pache, and Derian Cruz will be set free as well.
their entire farm system  
pjcas18 : 11/20/2017 11:02 am : link
should be free to sign elsewhere as well as any under 24 year old prospects.

really send a message to the league that this type of nefarious activity will not be tolerated.
RE: their entire farm system  
Jay on the Island : 11/20/2017 11:06 am : link
In comment 13699061 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
should be free to sign elsewhere as well as any under 24 year old prospects.

really send a message to the league that this type of nefarious activity will not be tolerated.

Lol you wish pj
Some more info  
superspynyg : 11/20/2017 11:06 am : link
Giants have offered 2b Joe Panik and two top prospects for Stanton and Dee Gordon.

Hideki Matsui will be involved in the Otahni recruitment which would be great as Matsui is very respected in Japan.

Industry Insiders think that Rays pitcher Alex Cobb will sign with either Yanks or Cubs.
No way is Acuna involved. Maitan probably 100%  
GiantFilthy : 11/20/2017 11:08 am : link
as well as others that they nabbed in that years international signing period.
Lol  
BigBlueShock : 11/20/2017 11:08 am : link
Joe Panik and two prospects for Stanton AND Gordon? Laughable.
Lol at everyone hoping  
halfback20 : 11/20/2017 11:37 am : link
Acuna becomes a free agent.

He was signed by a different GM.
heh, no way Acuna became a free agent but imagine the circus if he did  
Heisenberg : 11/20/2017 11:39 am : link
wow. Such an amazing prospect.
If  
DanMetroMan : 11/20/2017 11:40 am : link
that's what Miami gets for Stanton then Jeter is as bad of an owner as he was great of a player. That is an AWFUL trade.
Any  
ryanmkeane : 11/20/2017 11:40 am : link
Mets free agency rumors?
The  
DanMetroMan : 11/20/2017 11:41 am : link
Mets reportedly are interested in Mike Minor, Bryan Shaw, Lorenzo Cain, Carlos Santana.
Today  
DanMetroMan : 11/20/2017 11:42 am : link
is the 40 man deadline to protect players. I suspect the Mets protect at minimum Bashlor/Guillorme/Bautista
RE: Lol  
rich in DC : 11/20/2017 11:42 am : link
In comment 13699077 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
Joe Panik and two prospects for Stanton AND Gordon? Laughable.


No, it isn't.

This has been an aspect that most fans have ignored. Both Stanton and Gordon's contracts exceed their value. As such, NO team is going to give up BOTH top prospects AND take on the massive deals.

Thus, the Marlins have a tough choice to make.

They will either have to take the best prospect package offered, while eating a substantial portion of Stanton's deal- or they can get a pittance in return for the other team taking on that deal.

Add in that Stanton has a full no-trade clause and likely has made his desires of where he will and won't accept being traded has an impact- and will also likely reduce the Marlin's bargaining power.
RE: their entire farm system  
rich in DC : 11/20/2017 11:45 am : link
In comment 13699061 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
should be free to sign elsewhere as well as any under 24 year old prospects.

really send a message to the league that this type of nefarious activity will not be tolerated.


Be careful what you ask for. Given that a large number of other teams engage in these activities- the Braves were the ones who got caught this year, and the Red Sox got hit a few years ago- you could end up with annual minor league FA for every prospect.

Then, you really would have the haves and have-nots. The rich teams would just scoop every good prospect up and the others would be left with scraps.
RE: The  
Eric on Li : 11/20/2017 11:45 am : link
In comment 13699143 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Mets reportedly are interested in Mike Minor, Bryan Shaw, Lorenzo Cain, Carlos Santana.


Any of those 4 would be a very good addition. Hopefully they land multiple.
Huh?  
DanMetroMan : 11/20/2017 11:47 am : link
Gordon's deal FAR from exceeds his value. It may be too rich for a team desperate to cut payroll but on what planet is Gordon overpaid? 3 years 38.5 million with a 4th year team option. He'd easily get that on the open market.
RE: If  
rich in DC : 11/20/2017 11:48 am : link
In comment 13699140 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
that's what Miami gets for Stanton then Jeter is as bad of an owner as he was great of a player. That is an AWFUL trade.


People forget that trading a Mega contract is not an easy thing. Remember the ARod trade?

The Yanks got ARod- AND got the Rangers to pay $67M of the remaining $179M. The Rangers got Soriano- who was a year from FA and left after that year- and a scrub minor leaguer- Joaquin Arias- who never amounted to much.

I think people need to dramatically re-set their expectations on what the Marlins are going to get for Stanton.
Dee  
DanMetroMan : 11/20/2017 11:48 am : link
Gordon has been worth 3.3, 4.8, 1.0 (missed half the season) and 3.3 fWAR. Using current WAR value Dee Gordon was worth 26.6 million in 2017 alone.
rich,  
GiantFilthy : 11/20/2017 11:49 am : link
no one should doubt that all teams in all sports fiddle with the rules in some fashion. Every organization has a line that they refuse to cross. Some lines are further and more shady than others. Seems in this case that Coppy completely erased the line and dared the league to stop him.

Cocky pos probably set the franchise back.
RE: Huh?  
rich in DC : 11/20/2017 11:49 am : link
In comment 13699157 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Gordon's deal FAR from exceeds his value. It may be too rich for a team desperate to cut payroll but on what planet is Gordon overpaid? 3 years 38.5 million with a 4th year team option. He'd easily get that on the open market.


I doubt it.

He has a PED suspension already, he is a pure slap hitter- he either gets a single or nothing, and his defense isn't special.

There is also a gut of 2B on the market already- and most contenders don't need a 2B.
RE: Dee  
rich in DC : 11/20/2017 11:50 am : link
In comment 13699161 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Gordon has been worth 3.3, 4.8, 1.0 (missed half the season) and 3.3 fWAR. Using current WAR value Dee Gordon was worth 26.6 million in 2017 alone.


If that's true, show me the 2B making $26.6M.

...crickets...
RE: RE: Dee  
DanMetroMan : 11/20/2017 11:52 am : link
In comment 13699171 rich in DC said:
Quote:
In comment 13699161 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Gordon has been worth 3.3, 4.8, 1.0 (missed half the season) and 3.3 fWAR. Using current WAR value Dee Gordon was worth 26.6 million in 2017 alone.



If that's true, show me the 2B making $26.6M.

...crickets...


Huh? That refers to his value not what he'd actually get paid. Sorry suggesting Dee Gordon's contract at 10.5, 13, 13 is somehow hard to move is ridiculous. That's a fair market deal for a very good player coming off a good year.
RE: rich,  
rich in DC : 11/20/2017 11:54 am : link
In comment 13699165 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
no one should doubt that all teams in all sports fiddle with the rules in some fashion. Every organization has a line that they refuse to cross. Some lines are further and more shady than others. Seems in this case that Coppy completely erased the line and dared the league to stop him.

Cocky pos probably set the franchise back.


Sadly, I don't think that is the case.

From what I have read, it seems like the GM was such a bad guy to other people that his own people (Braves employees) turned him into the league. That's how MLB knows so much about what happened.

I really think that MLB is trying to not pull on this string too hard for fear of what comes out.

Think about this- we hear every year how prospect so and so is "likely going to sign with team X"- months and sometimes a year before the signing period even starts. Do you REALLY think that most teams involved in IFA have clean hands? I don't.
Cano  
DanMetroMan : 11/20/2017 11:56 am : link
makes 24, Zobrist makes 14, Murphy 17.5 (and his is only that low because people didn't below playoff Murphy was legit), Josh Harrison makes 10. Teams would give Dee Gordon 3 years 12.5 per without thinking twice.
The  
DanMetroMan : 11/20/2017 11:58 am : link
Braves had verbal deals with kids as young as 14 (which actually likely isn't that unusual) but Coppolella had issues with "everyone". Verbally abusive etc. People keep citing the "signing" of Robert Puason as what broke the camel's back but the belief is Coppolella brought this on himself.
RE: RE: RE: Dee  
rich in DC : 11/20/2017 11:58 am : link
In comment 13699176 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13699171 rich in DC said:


Quote:


In comment 13699161 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Gordon has been worth 3.3, 4.8, 1.0 (missed half the season) and 3.3 fWAR. Using current WAR value Dee Gordon was worth 26.6 million in 2017 alone.



If that's true, show me the 2B making $26.6M.

...crickets...



Huh? That refers to his value not what he'd actually get paid. Sorry suggesting Dee Gordon's contract at 10.5, 13, 13 is somehow hard to move is ridiculous. That's a fair market deal for a very good player coming off a good year.


I'll say it again- Gordon is a limited player. His speed is his skill- he slaps the ball and either gets a single (or a double or triple down the line) or he's out. He has a good BA- but that's about the only way he gets on base- 25 walks ALL YEAR last year. His career high is 31 walks.

His fielding is also pretty average.

As for the contract- take a look at the 4 year $20M deal Brian Dozier got- the Twins have been trying to trade him for 2 years and haven't been able to get it done- and Dozier is a MUCH better player than Gordon.
Oh no doubt.  
GiantFilthy : 11/20/2017 12:01 pm : link
Word came out like a firestorm once Coppy stepped down about how much of an asshole he was to work for and deal with, including "2,000 word texts" to other GMs. Who the f does that?
RE: rich,  
Jay on the Island : 11/20/2017 12:01 pm : link
In comment 13699165 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
no one should doubt that all teams in all sports fiddle with the rules in some fashion. Every organization has a line that they refuse to cross. Some lines are further and more shady than others. Seems in this case that Coppy completely erased the line and dared the league to stop him.

Cocky pos probably set the franchise back.

The truth is if Coppy wasn't such an asshole to everyone who worked under him none of this would have been reported. The league does not want to open a can of worms here. We could see several other international prospects coming forward in hopes of being declared a FA so that they get a 2nd pay day.
Brian Dozier  
DanMetroMan : 11/20/2017 12:03 pm : link
1. Wasn't a FA when he got his contract so his salary is not comparable to Gordon

2. Dozier wasn't traded because the Twins were asking for a HUGE return. They weren't "unable" to trade him as you suggest. You honestly with a straight face can say that you believe the Twins had trouble finding takers for a guy who made 3 and 6 million the last 2 seasons and is only owed 9 this season? No. They had serious talks with the Dodgers (among others) asked for a ton and they couldn't find a match. Really odd to suggest Brian Dozier's salary has impacted his value, his contract is one of the best bargains in baseball.
This  
DanMetroMan : 11/20/2017 12:05 pm : link
is from when Dozier signed his deal

"The two sides were known to be discussing an extension earlier this month, and the Twins in fact first explored locking Dozier up last offseason. Many scenarios were discussed, ESPN 1500s Darren Wolfson reports, and Wolfson was a little surprised the Twins didnt look to add at least one option year onto the deal. On the one hand, if Dozier keeps producing, the Twins now face paying a lot more for his 2019 season and beyond if they want to keep him. That said, the Twins would obviously be ecstatic if Dozier keeps hitting since it will make their four-year/$20MM commitment look like a bargain, yet the deal is also short enough that it gives Minnesota flexibility if Dozier comes back to earth. From Doziers perspective, he scores one big payday now and still has the freedom to test the open market at age 31."
Gordon is a good defender  
Kyle in NY : 11/20/2017 12:06 pm : link
gold glove winner in 2015 and the metrics rate him positively as well. His contract is plenty reasonable.

And while Stanton's contract is massive, if he were a free agent this offseason, he'd certainly get something approaching that deal. After next year's free agency, that contract might not look so bad.
Giants  
DanMetroMan : 11/20/2017 12:07 pm : link
interested in Billy Hamilton
Rays  
DanMetroMan : 11/20/2017 12:08 pm : link
reportedly willing to listen on any of their players making money. Every team in baseball should be asking about Kiermaier. He's a game changer on defense and quietly become a very solid hitter.
Here  
DanMetroMan : 11/20/2017 12:11 pm : link
are players in the Mets top 30 (MLB.com) who must be added or exposed to the Rule V

New York Mets (7)
11. Luis Guillorme, SS
12. Wuilmer Becerra, OF
15. Jhoan Urena, 3B
17. Luis Carpio, SS
20. Ali Sanchez, C
27. Corey Oswalt, RHP
30. Gerson Bautista, RHP
Yankees  
DanMetroMan : 11/20/2017 12:12 pm : link
New York Yankees (6)
1. Gleyber Torres, INF
6. Domingo Acevedo, RHP
7. Albert Abreu, RHP
17. Thairo Estrada, SS/2B
*18. Jake Cave, OF
23. Billy McKinney, OF/1B
Yanks just opened up another roster spot...  
Mike in St. Louis : 11/20/2017 1:13 pm : link
traded Ronald Herrera, another RP, to the Rangers...for another reliever, Reiver Sanmartin...

Sanmartin is a 21 year old lefty from Columbia signed by Texas in 2015...
Give me Dee Gordon on the Yankees  
DennyInDenville : 11/20/2017 1:17 pm : link
I'd then Trade Castro for anything which offsets the money a little..

Then let Andujar/Torres compete for 3B

RE: Here  
pjcas18 : 11/20/2017 1:45 pm : link
In comment 13699231 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
are players in the Mets top 30 (MLB.com) who must be added or exposed to the Rule V

New York Mets (7)
11. Luis Guillorme, SS
12. Wuilmer Becerra, OF
15. Jhoan Urena, 3B
17. Luis Carpio, SS
20. Ali Sanchez, C
27. Corey Oswalt, RHP
30. Gerson Bautista, RHP


How many 40 man spots do they have? Maybe a year they can poach someone from another team.

I can't see anyone keeping almost anyone on that list on their active roster all season. Maybe Guillorme, he's turned into an interesting prospect. I'd like to see him in camp.

RE: RE: Here  
Greg from LI : 11/20/2017 2:06 pm : link
In comment 13699357 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
I can't see anyone keeping almost anyone on that list on their active roster all season.


That's what I said last year about Luis Torrens, but then the laughable Padres did exactly that. He hit .163/.243/.203 over 123 ABs, but they didn't care about winning and now they can just send him to AA and try to develop him.

Weird note about the Padres - they outperformed their pythag by a whopping 12 games last year......and still lost 91. Also, I had no idea that Jose Pirela had a very nice season for them out of nowhere.
I hope the Yankees leave either McKinney or Cave unprotected  
Jay on the Island : 11/20/2017 2:18 pm : link
The Braves would love to have either in LF.
RE: RE: Here  
DanMetroMan : 11/20/2017 3:07 pm : link
In comment 13699357 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13699231 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


are players in the Mets top 30 (MLB.com) who must be added or exposed to the Rule V

New York Mets (7)
11. Luis Guillorme, SS
12. Wuilmer Becerra, OF
15. Jhoan Urena, 3B
17. Luis Carpio, SS
20. Ali Sanchez, C
27. Corey Oswalt, RHP
30. Gerson Bautista, RHP



How many 40 man spots do they have? Maybe a year they can poach someone from another team.

I can't see anyone keeping almost anyone on that list on their active roster all season. Maybe Guillorme, he's turned into an interesting prospect. I'd like to see him in camp.


Tyler Bashlor (not listed) is a MUST add for me. He'd be poached and likely never returned. Guillorme would be taken as well. Very limited upside but his glove is playable right now. They have 5 spots at the moment. I suspect Bashlor, Bautista, Guillorme and Oswalt are added, Uceta a shot as well.
Reiver Sanmartin  
DanMetroMan : 11/20/2017 3:10 pm : link
is a tiny guy who throws strikes. Stuff is "okay" but he's lefty so he has a shot.
This is the kind of stuff  
pjcas18 : 11/20/2017 3:42 pm : link
even though Mets related that raises questions. How is there a favorite to sign a 15 year old kid? You know shady shit was probably going on to be the favorite.

Quote:
Michael Mayer‏ @mikemayerMMO

Mets are the favorites to sign 2018 July 2nd FA Freddy Valdez according to @BaseballAmerica. Hes 63, 209 pounds, corner outfielder whose best tool is raw power. 15-years old right now.


and that's a big boy for 15.
It's  
DanMetroMan : 11/20/2017 3:46 pm : link
why you know the Braves situation was a unique one. There are rumored verbal deals as far into the future as 2020 aka 14 year olds.
I thought they were discussing  
pjcas18 : 11/20/2017 3:50 pm : link
an International draft for baseball.

Seems like it would put an end to some of this and simplify things from an IFA budget standpoint and level the playing field to an extent.
RE: I thought they were discussing  
DanMetroMan : 11/20/2017 3:54 pm : link
In comment 13699494 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
an International draft for baseball.

Seems like it would put an end to some of this and simplify things from an IFA budget standpoint and level the playing field to an extent.


Every CBA it comes up and never seems to pass. In theory it's a great idea however it also penalizes teams that actually do the leg work in LA vs. those who don't (I'm looking at you Baltimore).
RE: It's  
Jay on the Island : 11/20/2017 4:25 pm : link
In comment 13699492 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
why you know the Braves situation was a unique one. There are rumored verbal deals as far into the future as 2020 aka 14 year olds.

It just shows what a pos Coppy was/is.
Mets have had convos about Kinsler  
Eric on Li : 11/20/2017 7:21 pm : link
Quote:
Jon Morosi‏Verified account
@jonmorosi
Follow Follow @jonmorosi
More
Sources: #Mets, #Tigers have had preliminary discussions on an Ian Kinsler trade. @MLBNetwork @MLB


Maybe he's cooked but his defense was graded out positively (+6 DRS) last year and all of his numbers were close to his usual except BABIP - which was 40 points lower than his career average and 70 points lower than 2016 when he was worth 5.7fWAR.

I'm encouraged that all the targets popping up on the Mets' radar have low k-rates.
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