Posted this in another thread but I'll add more here, all from PFF's paid service and some spreadsheet manipulation:
Eli's 2016 deep ball ranks:
5th most attempts (71)
4th most uncatchable (25)
Tied for 3rd worst uncatchable % (50.56%). Only behind Pittsburgh and Jacksonville and tied with the Jets, Arizona, and the Browns.
An interesting correlation: 7 of the 12 playoff teams ranked in the top 12 in terms of catchable deep ball %. Only 3 of the 12 playoff teams ranked in the top 10 of deep ball attempts (Pitt, GB, NYG).
2017 numbers are 20 uncatchable deep balls out of 28 attempts. 71% uncatchable
Of his 185 passes that had a target credited to it, 59 were uncatchable, a total of 32%.
I'll try to get rankings together for those 2017 numbers.
We're so beholden to these stupid statistics sometimes, without putting them in their proper context.
It's like the guy who doesn't throw up the Hail Mary at the end of the half because he might be credited with an interception. The great player really doesn't think much of statistical risk-taking even if it compromises his own numbers. Its like when Parcells used to tell Simms before the big games, not be afraid to throw a few interceptions...
We're so beholden to these stupid statistics sometimes, without putting them in their proper context.
It's like the guy who doesn't throw up the Hail Mary at the end of the half because he might be credited with an interception. The great player really doesn't think much of statistical risk-taking even if it compromises his own numbers. Its like when Parcells used to tell Simms before the big games, not be afraid to throw a few interceptions...
These don't count hail marys, and intentional throws out of bounds
We're so beholden to these stupid statistics sometimes, without putting them in their proper context.
It's like the guy who doesn't throw up the Hail Mary at the end of the half because he might be credited with an interception. The great player really doesn't think much of statistical risk-taking even if it compromises his own numbers. Its like when Parcells used to tell Simms before the big games, not be afraid to throw a few interceptions...
Cmon. Listen, I love Eli as much as the next guy, but some of the defenses of him are just laughable. He's not the same guy and people can blame the coach, the OL, the WR's, the running game, but a lot of it falls on Eli. Its time to move on. I'm sorry.
NFL caliber WR's?
Have you seen the Cowboy's line lately ...Cowboys fans are saying "Give Prescott Eli's line and he would be all-pro"
thank you. PFF is horse hit. Purely for Fools.
Also. He tried to make them out of reach of dbs also.
Also. He tried to make them out of reach of dbs also.
Please stop. Eli has been horrendous with the deep ball this year. He has had time. How many did he miss last week alone? 3 - Shepard and King twice. He hasn't been able to hit the broadside of a barn.
The stats don't lie.
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Its called Chuck and Duck.
Also. He tried to make them out of reach of dbs also.
Please stop. Eli has been horrendous with the deep ball this year. He has had time. How many did he miss last week alone? 3 - Shepard and King twice. He hasn't been able to hit the broadside of a barn.
The stats don't lie.
There is a famous quote about the 3 types of lies, they are lies, damned lies and statistics...
Come on, this is blatant homerism bullshit. Firs of all, how would PFF know what route is supposed to be run? Secondly, EVERY QB has to deal with WR's running the wrong routes, or is it only the Giants that insist on signing dolts to play WR?
I will defend Eli when it is warranted, but some posters refuse to acknowledge when he hasn't played well.
The wrong route may have some impact on the overall numbers but it won't affect the deep ball numbers because you're throwing 20 yard passes and someones running the wrong route at the end.
Also, im under the impression that PFF accounts for those because they to do when they make their QB grades. I'm pretty sure these numbers are where there is an actual target and not ones where its thrown to nobody. It also doesn't account for throw aways and balls clearly thrown to avoid a sack.
Over the past three weeks the overall uncatchable number drops to 29.4% which is not a huge drop.
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How he closes out the season. It looks like the team finally has some semblance of an OL and running game. He has missed a few deep balls over the past few weeks, but he has also been spot on some times as well. He seemed to connect with Shepard a handful of times in the SF game. Hit the deep ball to Lewis yesterday as well as one to Rudolph. Really hoping Shepard comes back Thursday.
Over the past three weeks the overall uncatchable number drops to 29.4% which is not a huge drop.
Would like to see what his numbers are like compared to others. Is there a big gap from player to player? Right now, those numbers are just that to me. Numbers. Dont really know the context of them.
Right. Only NYG wideouts ever run the wrong route.
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In comment 13699486 gmen9892 said:
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How he closes out the season. It looks like the team finally has some semblance of an OL and running game. He has missed a few deep balls over the past few weeks, but he has also been spot on some times as well. He seemed to connect with Shepard a handful of times in the SF game. Hit the deep ball to Lewis yesterday as well as one to Rudolph. Really hoping Shepard comes back Thursday.
Over the past three weeks the overall uncatchable number drops to 29.4% which is not a huge drop.
Would like to see what his numbers are like compared to others. Is there a big gap from player to player? Right now, those numbers are just that to me. Numbers. Dont really know the context of them.
I'll try to put rankings for uncatchable WR numbers together tonight
Also what about the OL? Playing better now, but the first half he had no time. How does that compare with the others hes being compared with?
These are things that need to be included to be fair. Without further depth these are just raw, and likely posted to support an agenda
reese's decisions have provided eli with garbage at the TE and OL positions from 2012 onward. i'd also argue that eli hasn't had an above average running back since bradshaw. i can acknowledge he has been off on some passes this year, and his completion % has never been on par with guys like brees, or even rivers. but reese is far more responsible for the shitshow before us than eli is. eli's biggest weakness is he is not the guy who will run for 3-4 first downs a game to keep drives alive like stafford, wentz, wilson, smith, rodgers, etc.
San Fran is dead last at a whopping 40.50%
That would not factor in, because you know it was catchable
Once again, he had several passes caught on third down that didn't result in first downs....I think he leads the league in this....passes like this, safe passes that don't result in first downs, just pad his completion %....
As for his downfield completions, he is more accurate than throwing 5 yarders....problem is, his familiarity with the wide receivers......I don't think he is as comfortable throwing to the likes of King, Lewis, etc.
PFF keeps that too teams. The best I could do is yards per route by RB but that wouldnt tell much
Lewis picked that ball off the grass. Not sure I'd categorize that as hitting it, but that's a matter of opinion I suppose.
He's had the best offensive line in football before and never been that guy.
Lacking both that and the very familiar ones he jives with...AND a line... maybe until now.
He is not Aaron Rodgers, never been ...but two rings with the right set up....the right set up is a prerequisite or basic step one entry ticket with most QBs.
I think people in general highly overrate the impact of coaching. Also, Mike McCarthy is highly arrogant as a coach for someone who's had arguably the best QB in football and not done nearly enough winning with it. The Packers go into the tank any time Rodgers is hurt.
Link - ( New Window )
Whereas I think Manning was savvy and put the work in to get ready.
And possibly macadoo arrogantly assumed that the short 15 minutes it took Rodgers to get ready ( or what have you) was transferrable to -any- other QB. Rodgers. Unique in the league. Farve. Unique.playmaker.
Eli has taken hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit and keeps coming back for more.
He won a title game in 'frisco where he took an epic beating and still could not be denied. Yet, some here still question his toughness. You can say he is cooked, but, afraid to take a hit is an insult to truth of the highest order.
Because Eli has never not taken the ball on game day Giants fans have never seen what the team would look like without him.
It is all coming to an end now, which is sad. I still think Eli can play and I wonder why so many are ao eager to show him the door. Top picks or no, the odds of getting another guy that can even come close to Eli is slim to none.
This is especially true in NYC, where the media and pressure will chew up and spit out new QB'S
A good measure of that article is dated, especially the author's concern over the qualifications of the people doing the work. PFF partners with a consulting firm of former NFL coordinators and position coaches as consultants, some of whom were on Tom Coughlin's coaching staff. Kevin Gilbride himself ran grades for PFF for at least one year.
PFF is well-entwined within the league itself. Teams subscribe to and make use of the data they provide. There's also something to be said for a little built in bias considering the author is Bruce Allen, and old time scout. Plenty of old time baseball guys don't have time for any new methods of analysis too.
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Give Eli the Cowboy or Eagles line and he would be All-pro.
He's had the best offensive line in football before and never been that guy.
Holy shitfuck now things are getting ludicrous around here...
When the fuck pray tell has he ever had the best offensive line in football...??
Are you smoking the same crack as that latharv guy...???
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In comment 13699400 gmenatlarge said:
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Give Eli the Cowboy or Eagles line and he would be All-pro.
He's had the best offensive line in football before and never been that guy
When the fuck pray tell has he ever had the best offensive line in football...??
Are you smoking the same crack as that latharv guy...???
2008. In fact the line was very good to great from 2005-2010
Giants o line in 07 and 08 was studly. Best in the league.
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But here is a great article on the ridiculously crazy PFF grades. A great read especially Bill B quotes. So a caution those people who use PFF as a reference for their ridiculous argument. Link - ( New Window )
A good measure of that article is dated, especially the author's concern over the qualifications of the people doing the work. PFF partners with a consulting firm of former NFL coordinators and position coaches as consultants, some of whom were on Tom Coughlin's coaching staff. Kevin Gilbride himself ran grades for PFF for at least one year.
PFF is well-entwined within the league itself. Teams subscribe to and make use of the data they provide. There's also something to be said for a little built in bias considering the author is Bruce Allen, and old time scout. Plenty of old time baseball guys don't have time for any new methods of analysis too.
Is it dated to say whoever is grading these games has no clue what play is running, no clue on where or what the player is suppose to do? PFF grades needs to be taking w a large spoonful of sugar. It's ok to use for snap counts and things like that but grading players? No way.
Eli has taken hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit and keeps coming back for more.
He won a title game in 'frisco where he took an epic beating and still could not be denied. Yet, some here still question his toughness. You can say he is cooked, but, afraid to take a hit is an insult to truth of the highest order.
Because Eli has never not taken the ball on game day Giants fans have never seen what the team would look like without him.
It is all coming to an end now, which is sad. I still think Eli can play and I wonder why so many are ao eager to show him the door. Top picks or no, the odds of getting another guy that can even come close to Eli is slim to none.
This is especially true in NYC, where the media and pressure will chew up and spit out new QB'S
Amen. Great great post. Same thing happened with Phil Simms. Most Giants fans wanted him gone. Then came Brown, Graham, Kanell. Short memories around here.
Eli has taken hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit and keeps coming back for more.
He won a title game in 'frisco where he took an epic beating and still could not be denied. Yet, some here still question his toughness. You can say he is cooked, but, afraid to take a hit is an insult to truth of the highest order.
Because Eli has never not taken the ball on game day Giants fans have never seen what the team would look like without him.
It is all coming to an end now, which is sad. I still think Eli can play and I wonder why so many are ao eager to show him the door. Top picks or no, the odds of getting another guy that can even come close to Eli is slim to none.
This is especially true in NYC, where the media and pressure will chew up and spit out new QB'S
Eli has the unique ability to throw and turn his back to the oncoming rusher he very rarely gives anybody a front shot but he’s also incurred a lot of interceptions with this style ....... the thing that gets me irate over Eli is like the pass he throws to Darkwa’s feet he brings that ball up it’s a possible touchdown instead of a 3 yard gain ..... he has trouble with the short pass not a good trait for the WCO.......
That's such fatous logic.
Barring the once in 50/years Aaron Rodgers John Elway (they don't exactly grow on trees)..we need probably need a great line -to win- with -any- QB.
It's just a way to look for over simplified solutions and engage in fantasy. If a random running QB was the solution just start geno smith (with the line of the first 6 games,).
Luck with that...
Bottom line we need a great. Young, OL ....FOR a draftee QB..or Webb...or manning and in place before they start.
Problem was a db lined up in line with that back a ways...but...so if not caught it's a pick 6.
Dirt throws sometimes = game management.
Nobody is changing anybody's mind.
What needs to happen in these topics is realistic conversation. You have to understand/acknowledge that Eli is going to be the QB next year at minimum. It's likely he plays the following year under his contract as well. He's not getting traded, and he's not getting cut. That's the realistic scenario. So IMO, the discussion should be focused on how we can be successful with him.
That's not to say we won't draft his replacement this year.
The 66th ranked TE in the NFL.
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In comment 13699698 map7711 said:
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But here is a great article on the ridiculously crazy PFF grades. A great read especially Bill B quotes. So a caution those people who use PFF as a reference for their ridiculous argument. Link - ( New Window )
A good measure of that article is dated, especially the author's concern over the qualifications of the people doing the work. PFF partners with a consulting firm of former NFL coordinators and position coaches as consultants, some of whom were on Tom Coughlin's coaching staff. Kevin Gilbride himself ran grades for PFF for at least one year.
PFF is well-entwined within the league itself. Teams subscribe to and make use of the data they provide. There's also something to be said for a little built in bias considering the author is Bruce Allen, and old time scout. Plenty of old time baseball guys don't have time for any new methods of analysis too.
Is it dated to say whoever is grading these games has no clue what play is running, no clue on where or what the player is suppose to do?
Depends in part on who is doing the grading. If it's someone who's coached or played on that level, you're comfortable saying they have no clue about play recognition or what the player is supposed to do?
In that case, those who call the game on TV also have no clue what play is running or what the player is supposed to do. You do not need to have a photocopy of the playbook to be able to make informed determinations on the outcome of a play.
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In comment 13699705 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 13699698 map7711 said:
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But here is a great article on the ridiculously crazy PFF grades. A great read especially Bill B quotes. So a caution those people who use PFF as a reference for their ridiculous argument. Link - ( New Window )
A good measure of that article is dated, especially the author's concern over the qualifications of the people doing the work. PFF partners with a consulting firm of former NFL coordinators and position coaches as consultants, some of whom were on Tom Coughlin's coaching staff. Kevin Gilbride himself ran grades for PFF for at least one year.
PFF is well-entwined within the league itself. Teams subscribe to and make use of the data they provide. There's also something to be said for a little built in bias considering the author is Bruce Allen, and old time scout. Plenty of old time baseball guys don't have time for any new methods of analysis too.
Is it dated to say whoever is grading these games has no clue what play is running, no clue on where or what the player is suppose to do?
Depends in part on who is doing the grading. If it's someone who's coached or played on that level, you're comfortable saying they have no clue about play recognition or what the player is supposed to do?
In that case, those who call the game on TV also have no clue what play is running or what the player is supposed to do. You do not need to have a photocopy of the playbook to be able to make informed determinations on the outcome of a play.
Why the hell do teams pay scouts???
Just hire PFF and whoever they grade the highest is the guy we get. Done deal. If Bill B says he has a tough time even evaluating a play on his own team, I'll go w that then anything PFF has to tell me. Believe that.
The people with experience are "consultants", but they only audit the grades periodically. If there's something completely out of whack, they may decide on the final grade, but these consultants are basically there in name only and rarely do actual work or correction - they simply don't have time to mine through everything.
PFF is still driven by people assuming what the lineman was supposed to do on every play, and if they do it well, they get a +, if they do it poorly, they get a - and if they can't tell, they give a 0. Problem is, you could theoretically have a reviewer not know what to grade on several plays and give a 0 because of it. It is a heavily flawed and completely subjective system graded by people that don't have to meet any set of qualifications and the consultants are there to rubber stamp things.
That's why debating their grades are usually useless, because the grades are basically useless. You can point to several instances of a QB winning a game, having 2 TD's or more and have a lower grade than a losing QB with 1 TD and 1 or more INT's.
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In comment 13699912 map7711 said:
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In comment 13699705 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 13699698 map7711 said:
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But here is a great article on the ridiculously crazy PFF grades. A great read especially Bill B quotes. So a caution those people who use PFF as a reference for their ridiculous argument. Link - ( New Window )
A good measure of that article is dated, especially the author's concern over the qualifications of the people doing the work. PFF partners with a consulting firm of former NFL coordinators and position coaches as consultants, some of whom were on Tom Coughlin's coaching staff. Kevin Gilbride himself ran grades for PFF for at least one year.
PFF is well-entwined within the league itself. Teams subscribe to and make use of the data they provide. There's also something to be said for a little built in bias considering the author is Bruce Allen, and old time scout. Plenty of old time baseball guys don't have time for any new methods of analysis too.
Is it dated to say whoever is grading these games has no clue what play is running, no clue on where or what the player is suppose to do?
Depends in part on who is doing the grading. If it's someone who's coached or played on that level, you're comfortable saying they have no clue about play recognition or what the player is supposed to do?
In that case, those who call the game on TV also have no clue what play is running or what the player is supposed to do. You do not need to have a photocopy of the playbook to be able to make informed determinations on the outcome of a play.
Why the hell do teams pay scouts???
Just hire PFF and whoever they grade the highest is the guy we get. Done deal. If Bill B says he has a tough time even evaluating a play on his own team, I'll go w that then anything PFF has to tell me. Believe that.
NFL teams pay PFF tens of thousands of dollars for more advanced stuff than is let out to the public