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NFT: Evander Holyfield could Never Beat TYSON in his 20's

Elite Mobster #32 : 11/20/2017 11:08 pm
Holyfield was just interviewed on MSG

This thread is only to ask the question and discuss where Holyfield was when Tyson was in his 20's and fighting anyone who was in front of him.

The truth is Holyfield did not come out of hiding to fight Tyson, when he was the youngest Heavyweight Champion at 19yrs old. Holyfield is approximately 5 years older than Tyson. Its safe to say he didn't want to fight Tyson. When he did it was after had taken a series of steroids. During the fight it was Head Butts that gave him the advantage, which were not warned by the Referee. If the fight would have been allowed to continue Holyfield would have kept his head out of the range to head butt. Then we could have seen a battle. Holyfield will never get the same adulation as Tyson.

Tyson peaked early and was not a fighter of longevity, but he was the Best early round Knockout puncher in Boxing History


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Douglass fight was in Tokyo I think  
idiotsavant : 11/21/2017 12:18 pm : link
Tysons then wife, a pretty woman from a high rent background, had accused him of aggressive stuff. Don't remember the details. Believe that Tyson was court ordered on some - medication - at that time, just prior to the Douglas fight.
Just from memory  
idiotsavant : 11/21/2017 12:20 pm : link
Odds were heavily for Mike....
It's incredibly ignorant  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 11/21/2017 1:07 pm : link
to suggest that Holyfield was "avoiding" a fight with Tyson. It couldn't be further from the truth. Do some research.
RE: Tyson was unbeatable in his 20's He unified all the titles  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 11/21/2017 1:09 pm : link
In comment 13700260 Elite Mobster #32 said:
Quote:
Fuck Holyfield he didn't want to fight Young Tyson

No one gives Holyfield credit for that fight in Tyson's 30's. Tyson in his 20's would have tore his head off easily.



Holy shit you are deluded...do some research shitbag.
RE: It's incredibly ignorant  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/21/2017 2:57 pm : link
In comment 13700403 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
to suggest that Holyfield was "avoiding" a fight with Tyson. It couldn't be further from the truth. Do some research.

He's not here to be accurate, he's here to troll.
LakeGeorge what are you an idiot in the mountains  
Elite Mobster #32 : 11/21/2017 2:59 pm : link
Tyson was young Holyfield was 4 maybe 5 yrs older....no where to be found.

Didn't want it. Also after Tyson got new trainers aside from Rooney, he wasn't practicing the basis skills as much like the Jab and head movement. He was strictly a knock out puncher. Someone also mentioned his marriage and medication, so that's it. Let's get this straight no one could beat him before the Spinks fight.
Jesus..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/21/2017 3:23 pm : link
you really don't give a fuck about learning things do you?

Find an article - a source - anything showing Holyfield avoided Tyson. There's an article to the contrary posted earlier in this thread and there are dozens of stories talking about how Holyfield had his sights on tyson from early on. Even went up in class instead of dominating at a lower level for an entire career.

Just consistently and terribly wrong on every subject.
Tyson from 1986-88 vs. a prime Holyfield  
BlackLight : 11/21/2017 3:24 pm : link
would've been a far more competitive fight than Tyson/Holyfield in '96 turned out to be.

Tyson '86-88 against Holyfield '86-88 would've been a silly joke. Holyfield was fighting 25-30 lbs lighter during most of that period. Holyfield is a HOF fighter, but let's not get silly about this.

There are newspaper articles about Holyfield as far back as 1987 where his management team is talking about a future fight with Tyson.
Link - ( New Window )
No  
PaulN : 11/21/2017 3:53 pm : link
He wasn't avoiding Tyson and no the head butts were nothing in the fight, other then bullshit to cry about for Tyson fans. Tyson himself said he just lost the head butt game in the fight, but why believe Mike, right, he was only in the fight, made nothing out of the head butting, unreal how uninformed you are.
Fatman is delisional as usual  
Elite Mobster #32 : 11/21/2017 4:40 pm : link
I read the article , The last line Lou Duva answers the question for Holyfield and please interpret this statement" We are going to try to clean- up the cruiserweights first"
It took him 10 years to gain 12 pounds to get to 200lb? Then another 5 years to find enough heart, to go through with a fight after Tyson was finished as a fighter. He was done after trainer Rooney left his camp .
By finishing the Cruiser Weight which no one cared about. He didn't want to fight. Anyone except Fatman can see that.

Holyfield was boring as hell and he still is, He started slurring his words back in 1989.

His interview was on MSG was not honest at all. He may be a good person who knows but Tyson beat anyone in the way to the title and Holfield would have been in the way.
It is simple..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/21/2017 4:44 pm : link
find an article saying Holyfield ducked Tyson. Any article. Don't "read into" things because your comprehension is shittier than your English.

Otherwise, the best advice I can give is to shut the fuck up.

Just a complete moron across many different subjects.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/21/2017 4:46 pm : link
Quote:
Anyone except Fatman can see that.


Do you read your own threads? There are several other people ON THIS VERY THREAD seeing the same thing. Being dumb intentionally seems like a strange schtick to continue with, but man you are Aces at it.
RE: Fatman is delisional as usual  
Section331 : 11/21/2017 4:53 pm : link
In comment 13700703 Elite Mobster #32 said:
Quote:

It took him 10 years to gain 12 pounds to get to 200lb? Then another 5 years to find enough heart, to go through with a fight after Tyson was finished as a fighter.


Huh? Holyfield became a pro in 1985, and became a heavyweight 3 years later. In his first heavyweight fight, he knocked out James Tillis in 5, a guy who took Tyson the distance. He had a verbal agreement to fight Tyson in 1990, but Tyson lost to Buster Douglas, so Holyfield fought Buster instead.

What the hell are you talking about?
You clearly either ignored or didn't read the link I posted earluer  
steve in ky : 11/21/2017 4:58 pm : link
If you want to actually get a grasp on the history of this take a few moments and read it.

Here is the link again
Link - ( New Window )
Tyson  
XBRONX : 11/21/2017 5:20 pm : link
fought the weak class of fighters that was there early in his career. Tyson never beat a top class fighter in his prime.
RE: Tyson  
steve in ky : 11/21/2017 5:40 pm : link
In comment 13700752 XBRONX said:
Quote:
fought the weak class of fighters that was there early in his career. Tyson never beat a top class fighter in his prime.


Yup, Here is a link to a breakdown of his career record. Just take a look at the lack of quality for so many opponents during his first 27 fights leading up to his championship match. Not only their career records but the little boxes of green and red next to the their names show wins and losses in their six fights leading up to their fight with Tyson. A lot of red in those early "dominant" years.
Link - ( New Window )
Fatman you are a big time fucked up idiot  
Elite Mobster #32 : 11/21/2017 9:30 pm : link
Steroid head Holyfield couldn't find a way to fight after the first 6 fights Tyson had. Tyson would have destroyed Holyfield in hos early career. When he worked his way up to Holmes it was a passing of the torch. Holmes was a Champion
Holyfield had plenty of opportunity but for some reason he cleaned up cruiserweight division.

Early Tyson would have destroyed anyone. His fights were over after a few minutes is was a fantastic and exciting to experience. To get to the Bar to watch the fight and its over! He fought the best up until his major well documented distractions. Wife, Trainer, Don King etc.

It was too late for Holyfield,not buying it
Undisputed Heavyweight Champion fought all the Campions  
Elite Mobster #32 : 11/21/2017 10:08 pm : link
To unify the belts. No Holyfield
He waited to long it doesn't count.

When you fight a man his recorded fighting history is not in the ring.
Well if Tyson had only beaten the beatable Buster Douglas  
steve in ky : 11/21/2017 10:19 pm : link
he would have gotten Holyfield when he was 'younger". But once Tyson lost then Holyfield got the title shot with Douglas instead with Tyson as planned. Then Holyfield's second defense of the title was scheduled (1991) with Tyson until Tyson had to pull out due to an injured rib he suffered during training.

So in reality Tyson was the reasons behind both earlier fights they may have had but never did. Holyfield never ducked him.
Glad to..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/21/2017 10:19 pm : link
see you read the posts directly above yours. Excellent awareness there, Peggy.
RE: RE: Tyson  
BlackLight : 11/21/2017 10:19 pm : link
In comment 13700773 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 13700752 XBRONX said:


Quote:


fought the weak class of fighters that was there early in his career. Tyson never beat a top class fighter in his prime.



Yup, Here is a link to a breakdown of his career record. Just take a look at the lack of quality for so many opponents during his first 27 fights leading up to his championship match. Not only their career records but the little boxes of green and red next to the their names show wins and losses in their six fights leading up to their fight with Tyson. A lot of red in those early "dominant" years. Link - ( New Window )


Very common among even the recognized greats.
RE: RE: RE: Tyson  
steve in ky : 11/21/2017 10:27 pm : link
In comment 13700970 BlackLight said:
Quote:
In comment 13700773 steve in ky said:


Quote:


In comment 13700752 XBRONX said:


Quote:


fought the weak class of fighters that was there early in his career. Tyson never beat a top class fighter in his prime.



Yup, Here is a link to a breakdown of his career record. Just take a look at the lack of quality for so many opponents during his first 27 fights leading up to his championship match. Not only their career records but the little boxes of green and red next to the their names show wins and losses in their six fights leading up to their fight with Tyson. A lot of red in those early "dominant" years. Link - ( New Window )



Very common among even the recognized greats.


Sure common for many fighter in there early fights but not sure as common for there to be as many easier fight as he did early on. But that wasn't even the point. Simply was pointing it out as a contradiction the assertion that " He fought best up until his major well documented distractions. Wife, Trainer, Don King etc."
Not a lot of great names  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 11/22/2017 10:15 am : link
that he fought in his whole career. Not that it is necessarily his fault, but hard to acclaim his greatness when he didn't fight any great fighters in their prime.
Fatman you Bitch  
Elite Mobster #32 : 11/22/2017 12:39 pm : link
Who did you fight? Your sister I bet.
He unified the 3 Championship belts

youngest Champion ever!
Mobby-  
idiotsavant : 11/22/2017 2:07 pm : link
Please consider that your use of absolute language ("could never ") brought about some of the vehemence in response. For sure, boxing is very match - up centric...

That said...'could never'?

That's too absolute. I would venture a guess that even iron mike and hollyfield might be humbler and more flexible regarding the question than some here including you.

What if you had posed it as a question ('who ya got') as opposed to an absolutist position?

That might make for better, more lively and lasting convo.
What an idiotic thread  
Matt G : 11/22/2017 3:19 pm : link
...
Word  
idiotsavant : 11/22/2017 3:25 pm : link
...."..."
RE: Fatman you Bitch  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/22/2017 4:00 pm : link
In comment 13701374 Elite Mobster #32 said:
Quote:
Who did you fight? Your sister I bet.
He unified the 3 Championship belts

youngest Champion ever!

You don't actually ever want to engage in a conversation on here. It happens in every one of your threads. You post whatever brain droppings you're experiencing that day and then make absolutely no effort to even read the posts that others write that contradict your take, despite the fact that they often use things like sources and facts, which you don't.

I'm mostly convinced that you're just a troll, which makes it all the more annoying that you're allowed to continue posting here. But in the event that you're not a troll, I think that's just sad. Because that means you really are the way you come across on here.

Either way, I feel sorry for you.
Slightly ironic, that coming from dunk but  
idiotsavant : 11/22/2017 4:33 pm : link
But. Humans are hard wired for defensiveness.

Maybe if we all practice posing our positions while leaving open the counter possibilities:

"Could it be the case that", " do you guys think it's possible"

"What do you people think?"

And the counter arguments. Instead of "your an idiot" (well, I am the idiot, true) maybe we could try

"Consider this" or something.
RE: Slightly ironic, that coming from dunk but  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/22/2017 5:55 pm : link
In comment 13701627 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
But. Humans are hard wired for defensiveness.

Maybe if we all practice posing our positions while leaving open the counter possibilities:

"Could it be the case that", " do you guys think it's possible"

"What do you people think?"

And the counter arguments. Instead of "your an idiot" (well, I am the idiot, true) maybe we could try

"Consider this" or something.

Slightly ironic? Just because I've never learned anything from your three-at-a-time stream of consciousness posts doesn't mean I haven't learned a lot on this board or haven't been open to differing viewpoints. Suffering fools lightly doesn't equate to learning.

Neither is the case with Mobster.
True  
idiotsavant : 11/22/2017 9:37 pm : link
.
Gatorade Dunk you are an idiot  
Elite Mobster #32 : 11/22/2017 10:06 pm : link
You don't understand the simplest philosophy.

which is " If you live a life of Disrespect you should consider you will Disrespected in return"

You are trying to talk like your above everything and talking down like God does. You don't impress me at all.

I feel sorry for you, because obviously if you think I'm taking any nonsense from You, or Fatman who is narrow minded bigot (Archie Bunker type) with only an opinion himself, then you are seriously injured. This is a thread about Tyson and how he missed fighting Tyson in his prime before he unified the 3 belts in the Heavyweight division and he had couldn't fight him before the titles.

Dunk you could never Dunk or score a TD. You sound un-athletic, and you seem to have a bad temper but you cant really do anything about it, when things don't go your way. You make underhanded comments that are totally false to serve some purpose. I have been a Giant fan since Csonka , LT and Simms. According to you everyone is a troll. That doesn't mean anything. I put you and Fatman in the same boat, I hope your job isn't to go around and Hate all day like Fatman, because only people with no talent make a living like that.
Each thread always gets back to ME, I'm the Star it seems!

You don't understand the simplest philosophy.  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/22/2017 10:13 pm : link
Quote:
" If you live a life of Disrespect you should consider you will Disrespected in return"


Well, now it all makes sense.

Quote:
This is a thread about Tyson and how he missed fighting Tyson in his prime


And now it doesn't again.

The sooner you're gone from this board, the better off we'll all be.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/22/2017 10:29 pm : link
I actually don't think Mobster is a troll. I think he's just a moron with a really low I.Q. and a very poor grasp of the English language.

Every time someone points out that his claims are completely unsubstantiated, don't make sense, or are just flat out bullshit, he refuses to acknowledge any of that and rather decides to double and triple-down on them.

Can't prove most of the diarrhea being spouted, doesn't seem to care. Then wonders why posters wind up piling-on or calling him out. Good stuff.
Obviously Tyson wasn’t the same after 3+ years in the pen...  
bw in dc : 11/22/2017 10:59 pm : link
And that’s when they fought, after Tyson was released.

So perhaps that is the more interesting question - could Holyfield have taken Tyson without that layoff?

I was always in the camp that Tyson had great timing - fighting in his prime when the heavyweight division was way down in quality. He destroyed a lot of mediocre or over-the-hill fighters.

In my eyes, the key is Holyfield had a great chin, and could really take a punch. So I think he could have fought Tyson straight up without being intimidated, which was one of Tyson’s great attributes. And when you can stand up to a bully, goods things always seem to happen. Thus, I think Holyfield was technically sound and tough enough to beat Tyson at any point in Tyson’s career.

Dunk English is one of my languages  
Elite Mobster #32 : 11/23/2017 1:54 am : link
One of the languages I speak- how about you? Arc how many languages can you speak Mr. IQ ? As far a State Licenses and Certificates, I would guarantee that you Arc only maintain a Drivers license. Did you start College younger than average?

Do you own Properties what ? Are you just a Troll of this site. A Vulture crowding every written line looking for a typographic error? Arc you come with more Bullshit than anyone because you work here. You see most new people who visit this site don't realize that BBI is in the business of Advertising. Its a business of keeping thread levels down because of the cost vs the advertising that's paid for at the top of the page, and on the side of the page. That's what clowns like Fatman and Dunk are for to discourage money paid out vs the cash coming in. This theory has to be true in some capacity. About some of the advertising, by the way is good and targeted to the average person. Not many Maserati advertisements.

Again I'm the Star. I think the last gentleman to comment was possibly correct in saying Holyfield had a good chin
but, he would have ran into a world wind. Holyfield had style similar to Frank Bruno.
19 yrs old Youngest 3 Belt Heavyweight Champion  
Elite Mobster #32 : 11/23/2017 2:09 am : link
Why did it take Holyfield past his prime to fight Tyson, when he started his career years before Tyson ever became a fighter?
RE: 19 yrs old Youngest 3 Belt Heavyweight Champion  
BlackLight : 11/23/2017 2:49 am : link
In comment 13701878 Elite Mobster #32 said:
Quote:
Why did it take Holyfield past his prime to fight Tyson, when he started his career years before Tyson ever became a fighter?


Holyfield began his professional career less than 4 months before Tyson did. He weighed 177 lbs. Tyson weighed 214.

As has been pointed out several times, Holyfield was scheduled to fight Tyson in 1990 (then Tyson lost his title). Then it was rescheduled for November 1991, before Tyson got injured and dropped out. Then he went to jail for a few years. Got out in 1995, finally fought Holyfield in November 1996.
RE: Dunk English is one of my languages  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/23/2017 6:18 am : link
In comment 13701874 Elite Mobster #32 said:
Quote:
Do you own Properties what ? Are you just a Troll of this site. A Vulture crowding every written line looking for a typographic error? Arc you come with more Bullshit than anyone because you work here. You see most new people who visit this site don't realize that BBI is in the business of Advertising. Its a business of keeping thread levels down because of the cost vs the advertising that's paid for at the top of the page, and on the side of the page. That's what clowns like Fatman and Dunk are for to discourage money paid out vs the cash coming in. This theory has to be true in some capacity. About some of the advertising, by the way is good and targeted to the average person. Not many Maserati advertisements.

Not a single word of this paragraph is accurate. Not only are your personal assertions off-base (as usual), but you also demonstrate a pretty severe lack of understanding for how digital marketing and ad networks function.

Keep telling yourself that you're the star though. That's much more productive than trying to produce a cogent thought.
Dont confuse  
XBRONX : 11/23/2017 7:27 am : link
Elite with facts. He loves fake news.
Honestly..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/23/2017 8:04 am : link
if I strung together 200 non-connected words I don't think I could make less sense than this:

Quote:
Do you own Properties what ? Are you just a Troll of this site. A Vulture crowding every written line looking for a typographic error? Arc you come with more Bullshit than anyone because you work here. You see most new people who visit this site don't realize that BBI is in the business of Advertising. Its a business of keeping thread levels down because of the cost vs the advertising that's paid for at the top of the page, and on the side of the page. That's what clowns like Fatman and Dunk are for to discourage money paid out vs the cash coming in. This theory has to be true in some capacity. About some of the advertising, by the way is good and targeted to the average person. Not many Maserati advertisements.


Such is the average Mobster post. I'm not even sure what his insults mean? Dunk and I don't have driving licences? We don't work in the USA?

Ummm.. OK
No Fatman I see you are not paid to think  
Elite Mobster #32 : 11/23/2017 10:26 am : link
I'm licensed in with the Department of Banking in several states. Licenses, and Admitted carriers required.

The premise of the thread was the fact that Holyfield started his boxing career years before Tyson turned Pro.

The fact that Tyson Unified all 3 titles and Holyfield could not find a way to make enough noise to fight Tyson through out Tyson's early boxing career in his 20's being the youngest Champion to ever acquire the Belts.

This is a span of approximately 15 years. No matter how you slice it, the belts were all unified and Holyfield only needed like 10 pounds to be a heavyweight and even while dosing up on Steroids did not enter into the picture. Tyson rose fast but was not a fighter of longevity, is All I'm saying. The great Muhammed Ali fought a guy named Bob Foster who was underweight but Foster gets credit for having the courage to test himself.

Not Holyfield
And you Elite  
XBRONX : 11/23/2017 10:35 am : link
test common sense.
RE: No Fatman I see you are not paid to think  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/23/2017 11:10 am : link
In comment 13702011 Elite Mobster #32 said:
Quote:
The premise of the thread was the fact that Holyfield started his boxing career years before Tyson turned Pro.

Yet again, you don't even read the posts in this thread except for the ones that mock you, which further reinforces that you're only here to troll. It's hard to understand what could possibly be enjoyable about that, but it takes all kinds I guess.

It has been pointed out to you numerous times that Holyfield and Tyson had a bout scheduled in 1990 but it was Tyson that lost the title, which then caused Holyfield to fight Douglas instead. After that it was Tyson who pulled out of Holyfield's title defense in 1991.

And it's only a handful of posts above yours that you were corrected on the timeline of Holyfield and Tyson's respective starts to their careers: they were less than four months apart.

Why are you so allergic to reality and facts? Holyfield never ducked Tyson.
Dink I havent paid amuch attention to you  
Elite Mobster #32 : 11/23/2017 1:43 pm : link
I have never seen any post from you , that make you interesting enough to read. All I see from you showing up un-talented to hate, and from time to time there is some corny comment or remark. lol This forum is mostly opinions and speculations.

What makes you an expert? You are wrong about my Giant fan interest.

This is my opinion, Holyfield somehow didn't show up to fight Tyson who fought once a month at one time, to fight.
they finally fought when they were boxing OLD. The fight was reminiscent to Tommy Hearns and Sugar Ray second fight. They we both after the heyday
RE: Dunk English is one of my languages  
arcarsenal : 11/23/2017 2:05 pm : link
In comment 13701874 Elite Mobster #32 said:
Quote:
One of the languages I speak- how about you? Arc how many languages can you speak Mr. IQ ? As far a State Licenses and Certificates, I would guarantee that you Arc only maintain a Drivers license. Did you start College younger than average?

Do you own Properties what ? Are you just a Troll of this site. A Vulture crowding every written line looking for a typographic error? Arc you come with more Bullshit than anyone because you work here. You see most new people who visit this site don't realize that BBI is in the business of Advertising. Its a business of keeping thread levels down because of the cost vs the advertising that's paid for at the top of the page, and on the side of the page. That's what clowns like Fatman and Dunk are for to discourage money paid out vs the cash coming in. This theory has to be true in some capacity. About some of the advertising, by the way is good and targeted to the average person. Not many Maserati advertisements.

Again I'm the Star. I think the last gentleman to comment was possibly correct in saying Holyfield had a good chin
but, he would have ran into a world wind. Holyfield had style similar to Frank Bruno.


I wouldn't consider English "one of my languages" of 80% of my sentences were grammatically incorrect.

"Do you own Properties what?"

What the fuck does this even mean?

Also, since when do I work here? I'm employed by Eric?

That's news to me!

You're a clown.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/23/2017 2:06 pm : link
LOL.. if 80%...

Derp.
I like Elite Mobster  
IIT : 11/23/2017 3:01 pm : link
He really adds some color to the site. Gets everyone fired up.

I don't think he's a dupe/troll but I like to imagine he is.

That would be some fucking high art.
Arc you clown  
Elite Mobster #32 : 11/23/2017 3:22 pm : link
Go to sleep its past your bedtime.

Eat some Turkey
I Love You guys Happy Thanksgiving!!!!!!
It's the global web  
idiotsavant : 11/23/2017 4:22 pm : link
Dennis Rodman made friends with a well known dictator who is a big sports fan...

Love you also Mobby. Happy holidays ....whomever you really are.

Advise study up on Hagler v Hearns and Hagler v Leonard, if you want to see greats in their prime going at it.

Otherwise we are stuck in hypothetical land.

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