Greetings NYG Brethren:
After having sworn for my entire adult life that I would never get roped into buying a new car, I have purchased two inside of a month. I got tired of repairs and "buying other peoples' problems," as an ex-girlfriend's dad always said, and I finally broke down: a new one for the wife and a new one for me.
It's a strange process, and from my perspective a soul-sucking one that I would prefer not to go through again any time soon. Even with all the internet info available while doing my due diligence, I was unable to determine what the dealer actually pays for their vehicles. My interest here was not necessarily to try and beat them out of 100% of their profit, but to set a sort of barometer where I felt like I would be getting fair depreciation value on a lot-clearing, year-end model.
There is a "truecar" website that, apart from inundating me with offers and prices and updates from local dealers, reveals what others in the area paid for the same vehicle. This site can't possibly be on my side...can it? Who reports these selling prices to the website? I would be shocked if the "participating dealers" don't set the prices in order to reassure prospective buyers that they are getting a better deal than their neighbors.
At any rate, a particularly savvy co-worker claims that if you can get a car out-the-door for 10% under the MSRP, you are generally doing well. I know there's the axiom that you've gotten a good deal so long as you *think* you've gotten a good deal, but can anyone in the industry confirm that OTD-at-10%-under-MSRP indicates a better-than-average deal on a new car?
Thanks.
once i felt like i couldn't get the vehicles at any lower price, i asked for "roof racks" and "weathertec floor mats."
so i felt like i got a good deal on price and added on some stuff i would have purchased anyway.
I just bought a new car, salesman was a patsy, caved easily, but the finance manager forced a 1 hour conversation on me on my price and trade in. All I said was, "let me know if you can do it, if not that;s fine, I'll head down to the next dealer." Yes, I got the price I had researched.
As far as 10% that is a great deal on some cars that move well (try getting that for a Honda Pilot) and not such a good deal for struggling vehicles (I think GMC adverts 20% off in some campaigns).
I use Edmunds.coms leasing and purchasing forums as a research tool. They show you the MF and residual values and customers reveal purchase prices there so you can gauge what is fair for the car you are looking for.
What cars did you get?
It can definitely be a brutal experience. F&I guys are always the most brutal. Remember, you can never win the game - it’s their game. You play a couple of times in your life, up to what, ten times? They do that each and every single day.
Congrats on the new cars, enjoy them.
We got our pilot 1000 below bluebook value for the prior year due to the gas prices, end of season. But it kind of spoiled me because now when I look at cars I can’t believe how expensive they are. When did everything start over 40k?
I believe KBB is the considered the best site to use, but I haven't had to buy a new car in 5 years. I remember going into Honda with my baseline price for the Accord, and the salesman's initial offer was $500 under it. I was shocked. Told him I needed to think about it, came back 2 days later and this guy was off. A different sales woman re-quoted it for me at $2k above what the prior guy offered. I told her about the previous offer, then had to go through the 3 hours of waiting while they "talk to their Manager" and finally agreed. I closed with the initial salesman, then found out a month later the guy was canned, so I think I got a once in a lifetime deal because the guy was a patsy.
Since I buy Fords, I get what is called X-Plan Pricing. It is a set price with no negotiating. I am very happy with the prices I pay for these cars and I love the no haggle process. My dealer makes it very simple. I have actually had them give me a better price than the xplan on a left over so my car buying experience has always been good with Ford. I have bought from Chevy and Hyundai in the recent past and those 2 purchases were soul sucking to say the least.
The minute they start with what do you want your monthly payment to be, you know you are in for a battle. I would say the monthly payment is secondary to the price I would be paying for the car.
I have to admit, I have been spoiled with my sales person and the x-plan pricing.
all those farts and sweat of someone else ingrained in the fabric of something you spend a lot of time in just nauseates me.
anyway, the most useful internet tool I found is the internet forums where people share what they paid for the vehicle and the options, etc. they got. some of it has to be taken with a grain of salt since you don't know who is bullshitting or not (like here) but I do use that as a gauge and edmunds and true car all are data points.
You should go into a dealership knowing what you feel is the fair price for the vehicle.
other factors do play in like incentives, promotions, trade in, that you can negotiate, but that's all outside of the price of the vehicle (when I buy one that is).
And you need to be careful of the tricky finance guys. they'll talk to you about monthly payment and extended warrantys and scotch guarding or whatever it's called for that vehicle (resist-all on the Toyota) and life time tire protection and most of that is a money-making sham.
When buying new, I took a look at Truecar to get a basic idea of what the car I wanted cost. I then emailed 6 dealers in my area telling them I was wanted to buy this upcoming Saturday and to please send me there best final offer and I'd go with the best one. 4 of them responded to me (2 tried to call me) and 2 offers came out close. I went with the one that was about $200 more overall on the car because they threw in 3 years of oil changes and service.
I think the emailing is a better route because going into the dealership to talk price can be stressful.
Also, listen to the other posters about the finance guy. I had the car purchased and thought I was good to go and then had to sit in a room with this guy. Tried to sell all sorts of shit like gap insurance, key insurance, odd warranties, just tons of extras. Just say no to all it and don't him get you into a position where you feel like you owe him an explanation as to why you're not buying his crappy products.
It pays to do research on base car packages and what they cost -- standard MSRP is a 12% markup of invoiced dealer cost (not including holdbacks - which dealers get from the manufacturer)
As someone said above -- be prepared to walk once you know what your baseline is -- the boss won't let you walk if they are making any kind of profit on the deal -- salesmen and finance people who let customers walk - do not last long at the dealership. They don't do as well becasue they are all paid a percentage of profit as commission - but the dealership does give a per car base commission and bonuses when you hit a certain # of cars in a month -- that's why going at the end of the month is the best time to go.
People think walking in with cash or financing from your local bank will get them a better deal. Truth is that dealers make money on financing and leasing and are more likely to cut a thin deal if there is some revenue coming in elsewhere. Time of the month is irrelevant as well. We have the same programs available all month long. A car deal on the 10th is just important as one on the 30th. And your experience will be better because there are fewer people in the showroom.
Car #1 was a Lincoln MKC; their small crossover vehicle. In my younger years I had a suicide-door convertible and I am partial to the marque. Fortunately Lincoln offers 0% interest over 60 months, so I sidestepped the finance guy on that one.
An interesting story from the Lincoln: I found that my local dealer actually had the best price, and the 4th time we stopped in there to finalize the deal, we selected the particular car we wanted, and told him that if he included the optional $100 cargo mat that the car didn't come equipped with, we would shake on the deal (he agreed, though he went on about how they are making nothing on the sale). I put the deposit on my visa and when the salesman called me the next day regarding the loan application, I reminded him about the cargo mat.
"Oh, that. Well what we are going to do is when these cars start coming off lease next month, we will give you the mat out of the first that has one in it. Because we have given you such a good deal, we..."
Me: "You mean you're going to give me a used mat? With dog hairs on it? Let me speak with the sales manager."
Sales manager: "We told you we would give you a mat, but we never said it would be a NEW mat."
I then sent an email to all the dealers I had been I contact with up to that point; I told them that I had a deal on the table, but I would buy from anyone who could beat the price I had in place. A response came back shortly from another dealer saying that yes; he would beat the price by $500 on an identical car with a brand new mat. I then went back to the local sales manager and told him that as he had reneged on the $100 mat, I found a better deal elsewhere and I'd like my deposit back.
Long story not quite so long, within a matter of hours the local sales manager changed from, "You expect me to pay out of my pocket for your mat? We are making nothing on this rock-bottom deal; there is no meat on the bone here," to, "I just spoke with the owner, and he would like to know if we can knock another $1,000 off the deal and include a new mat for you?"
That to me sums up the industry.
Car #2 was a Fiat 500x, European-looking orange color, base model with a stick shift. My holdup here was that the touchscreen serves little more purpose than a fancy radio display and backup camera screen, while the 2018 will have an expanded touchscreen with navigation, Apple CarPlay, etc. That one came from out of state, and my local dealer thinks I'm lying about the price ("I know what cost is, and with transport to your door to boot, the numbers don't add up"). I did find one selling for even cheaper in another color/automatic transmission, however.
The finance dept here tried jerking me. My three credit scores are in the 800s, yet they were offering me an 8.6% interest rate on the $8k I wanted to finance...while limiting me on that amount I could put down. Um, no thanks. He tried telling me not to worry--that I could refinance as soon as I got the car--but I'm sure he just wanted to get his finance commission. My bank gave me 2.9% for the small loan that I will pay off in a few months anyhow.
I have seen the truecar & KBB sites, and I just don't put much stock into what they speculate to be dealer invoice pricing. It seems that without much haggling a dealer will offer what is purported on line to be the approximate invoice price--usually on their opening proposal--so if this were true then everybody would be buying at "dealer cost;" car dealerships wouldn't be in business.
Do you stay in hotels?
re financing, one thing I never do is have the dealer include any fees, tags/plates, etc in the financing. Just the loan balance I need to buy the car. No reason to be financing sales tax, fees, etc over the life of the loan and be paying interest on those charges.
Quote:
all those farts and sweat of someone else ingrained in the fabric of something you spend a lot of time in just nauseates me
Do you stay in hotels?
re financing, one thing I never do is have the dealer include any fees, tags/plates, etc in the financing. Just the loan balance I need to buy the car. No reason to be financing sales tax, fees, etc over the life of the loan and be paying interest on those charges.
Yes all the time, and I hate it.
I travel for work and have no choice, buying a used car I have a choice.
and hotel bed comforters are the worst, sometimes I feel like buying one of those CSI kits to see what fluids are on there, but then I'm glad I don't have one.
I take the comforters off and handle them as little as possible, and pray the sheets were cleaned.
I'm not a germophobe or neat freak, but people (most) are disgusting and I like to avoid their filth.
Need to listen to that as I am afraid he will replay the many quirky things that have happened to many business travels.