I agree with the Flowers criticism. He mentions "ROI" but Flowers was 20 when drafted and just starting to come around , one of the better pass blocking LTs in all of football this year. ROI would include long term investment, not just short term.
Also, Apple was 20 when drafted as well. Reese has been awful in rounds 3 through 7 in most of his drafts - that is accurate. Just don't think Flowers and Apple are a good example of Reese being a bad GM.
He has proven to be a capable GM as evidenced by the fact that he had a huge hand in two Sb winning teams within the past decade. Yes, even the 07 team who people try and dilute his credit for. Did he get dumb at an age well before anyone should be questioning a loss of faculties? Or is it the more logical explanation.....that the draft is a crap shoot prone to luck and variance and that if you do this long enough you will have some dry periods. What’s going on with Ozzie newsome in Baltimore recently? How did bill polian do at the end in Indy when the Manning injury showed us just how much number 18 was covering up for some down offseasons. A few years ago John elway is the toast of the nfl. Now what’s up?
Firing Reese would be dumb. We have someone who is still relatively young that has shown an eye for talent and displayed the ability to compose rosters that sit under confetti in February, and we aren’t far removed from it. Pulling the plug because of a down few years would just be silly
And again some of the disrespect shown for a guy (bum ass bum?) who has done so much for us is sickening. Especially given what he represents to a lot of people
He has proven to be a capable GM as evidenced by the fact that he had a huge hand in two Sb winning teams within the past decade. Yes, even the 07 team who people try and dilute his credit for. Did he get dumb at an age well before anyone should be questioning a loss of faculties? Or is it the more logical explanation.....that the draft is a crap shoot prone to luck and variance and that if you do this long enough you will have some dry periods. What’s going on with Ozzie newsome in Baltimore recently? How did bill polian do at the end in Indy when the Manning injury showed us just how much number 18 was covering up for some down offseasons. A few years ago John elway is the toast of the nfl. Now what’s up?
Firing Reese would be dumb. We have someone who is still relatively young that has shown an eye for talent and displayed the ability to compose rosters that sit under confetti in February, and we aren’t far removed from it. Pulling the plug because of a down few years would just be silly
And again some of the disrespect shown for a guy (bum ass bum?) who has done so much for us is sickening. Especially given what he represents to a lot of people
It's dumb not to question a GM that has had drafted badly for 7 years, hasn't found one UDFA who can contribute since Cruz and had to be handed a check for 200 million in order to have a creditable defense. This past off-season, he had a team seriously lacking in speed on offense and added a slug tight end at a multi million dollar contract and a slug wideout with fork sticking out of his back to another multmillion dollar contract. He's a bad GM and should be gone.
He has proven to be a capable GM as evidenced by the fact that he had a huge hand in two Sb winning teams within the past decade. Yes, even the 07 team who people try and dilute his credit for. Did he get dumb at an age well before anyone should be questioning a loss of faculties? Or is it the more logical explanation.....that the draft is a crap shoot prone to luck and variance and that if you do this long enough you will have some dry periods. What’s going on with Ozzie newsome in Baltimore recently? How did bill polian do at the end in Indy when the Manning injury showed us just how much number 18 was covering up for some down offseasons. A few years ago John elway is the toast of the nfl. Now what’s up?
Firing Reese would be dumb. We have someone who is still relatively young that has shown an eye for talent and displayed the ability to compose rosters that sit under confetti in February, and we aren’t far removed from it. Pulling the plug because of a down few years would just be silly
And again some of the disrespect shown for a guy (bum ass bum?) who has done so much for us is sickening. Especially given what he represents to a lot of people
Well said. Out of Coughlin, Eli & Reese, Reese doesn’t get the credit for the Super Bowls.
At his drafts from 2010 to 2013. Four seasons worth.
They spent $200M on guys because his drafts have been so poor. He mismanaged the OL that they haven't been running succesfully for near five seasons. Before Engram, the TE situation was miserable. That is on him.
How abt Giants Dan doesn’t want him fired. He has ignored the Oline and Linebacker position almost completely. I’ve never seen a GM do that before. I know tow first round picks Pugh and Flowers but both were out of desperation. Reese should be gone and Mcadoo right behind him.
At his drafts from 2010 to 2013. Four seasons worth.
They spent $200M on guys because his drafts have been so poor. He mismanaged the OL that they haven't been running succesfully for near five seasons. Before Engram, the TE situation was miserable. That is on him.
Exactly and all of our linebackers are back up level
Reese should have been let go along with Coughlin Â
Of the two, I always felt Reese should have been the one to go. If you're hell-bent on ditching Tom, fine, but take Reese with him.
I get that Tom was old, tired, had lost the team, etc. and you want to shake things up. But that $200-million spree the second Tom was out the door really rankled.
Protecting your immobile, thirty-something QB should have always been priority number one and he consistently under-allocated.
Reese just has an enormous hard-on for D-line and secondary. Given the resources spent there, we should have the league's gold standard for both. We can't even say that. And don't get me started on the bubble gum and snot holding the rest of the roster together.
I'd argue more than anything he made a bad choice in FA with Schwartz which totally set them back.
Then the Beatty injury threw this whole OL configuration for a loop in 2015. Flowers was drafted to play RT, don't forget that. At the time they selected him, Beatty had already earned his 2nd contract from the team.
Jones, Jerry, Hart were never intended to start here. Schwartz was a bust and Beatty got hurt. Richburg has been underwhelming but I'm not sure a total bust yet.
There have been missteps and some bad luck along the OL but it hasnt been ignored. And as far as this season with the addition of Fluker, as stated above, McAdoo actually had components for a better OL than what he stubbornly put out there for 5 weeks. That's not on Reese.
Especially given what he represents to a lot of people
You really need to stop with this race nonsense. People explained WHY this has nothing to do with race a million times and you continually bring it up. Nobody should be immune to criticism and it’s rather disappointing that you seem to think that Reese should be treated with kids gloves because he’s black. We get it. Many people look up to him and it’s great that he’s been able to possible open doors for other minorities. But that should have zero influence on how people feel about the job he’s done or whether the team decides to keep him or let him go.
How abt Giants Dan doesn’t want him fired. He has ignored the Oline and Linebacker position almost completely. I’ve never seen a GM do that before. I know tow first round picks Pugh and Flowers but both were out of desperation. Reese should be gone and Mcadoo right behind him.
It's a myth that Reese ignored the Oline. He has been drafting and signing free agents Olinemen for years. Don't confuse ineffective with ignoring. Since forever the Giants prefer to sign free agents Linebackers instead of drafting them in the top 3 rounds. Reese is a good GM and the team would be foolish to fire him.
No. Flacco has wasted his prime years. The epitome of a one hit wonder...
The hypocrisy is hilarious. We all hate the other fanbases when they bash Eli. Flacco won a Super Bowl and a ton of road playoff wins.
Who mentioned Eli. If you think 198 career TDs with 128 INTs, and never a season without double digit interceptions, are "prime years" then indeed Flacco is your guy...
as soon as he walks out of here. Unimaginative coach without the knowledge of how to use his players. Hope he goes though because it is all his fault. Here in So-Flo the Dolphins would jump on him in a NY minute.
So, Dave... Reese lost his mind in the last 6 years? Â
Or do you have no understanding of how luck and variance can impact draft success? Entering this year many people felt the Giants roster was worthy of Sb consideration on paper at least. Hasn’t worked out, injuries sure haven’t helped either... nor has a coach in over his head who I am skeptical would have been Reese’s top choice
Jerry Reese is a 54 year old man. Unless he has some really earl onset Alzheimer’s I’m gonna let his track record and the fact that someone else would hire him in 5 seconds speak more loudly than some fans lack of understanding for this process. There has never been a gm
Who has ever lived that has not had a down period if he did it long enough
John Mara at Tom Coughln's "retirement" press conference: Â
Or do you have no understanding of how luck and variance can impact draft success? Entering this year many people felt the Giants roster was worthy of Sb consideration on paper at least. Hasn’t worked out, injuries sure haven’t helped either... nor has a coach in over his head who I am skeptical would have been Reese’s top choice
Jerry Reese is a 54 year old man. Unless he has some really earl onset Alzheimer’s I’m gonna let his track record and the fact that someone else would hire him in 5 seconds speak more loudly than some fans lack of understanding for this process. There has never been a gm
Who has ever lived that has not had a down period if he did it long enough
Did Tom Coughlin forget how to coach? Or we're the players not good enough?
RE: So, Dave... Reese lost his mind in the last 6 years? Â
Or do you have no understanding of how luck and variance can impact draft success? Entering this year many people felt the Giants roster was worthy of Sb consideration on paper at least. Hasn’t worked out, injuries sure haven’t helped either... nor has a coach in over his head who I am skeptical would have been Reese’s top choice
Jerry Reese is a 54 year old man. Unless he has some really earl onset Alzheimer’s I’m gonna let his track record and the fact that someone else would hire him in 5 seconds speak more loudly than some fans lack of understanding for this process. There has never been a gm
Who has ever lived that has not had a down period if he did it long enough
Bullshit. Don't blame injures, the Giants were 0-5 before the injury bug hit, before Beckham got hurt.
6 years, more then half of a decade, isn't a 'down period.' Stop with the BS excuses. He survived the firing of one coach already. He doesn't get 2.
I think there is a difference between 70 and 54. Tom Coughlin was coaching at an age where guys just aren’t in this business anymore. That’s why he will never coach again and Reese would be a gm
Again In 5 seconds
His drafting has been among the league's worst. Evaluation after evaluation has shown that. And so does the team record.
He foolishly left the Safety position under-manned in 2009, despite warnings from the position coach, leading them to sign a bunch of has-beens off the street during the season to fill the roster.
He has left some positions (LB, TE, OL) short of real talent for years on end.
So he has had to compensate by over-paying for veteran free agents, a short-term fix, as shown by what happened from last season to this season.
Look at his effing record. It stinks.
If another team would pick Reese up in about 5 seconds Â
“Despite” a “bum ass bum” GM who’s record “effing stinks”
Has got to be one of the most amazing magic tricks ever performed in the history of civilization. John Mara can probably pull white doves out of his ass too
Coughlin has the Jags going in a better direction... Â
They are having a better season for sure. That can easily change next year. It’s the nfl. Also I’m skeptical how much coughlins hands could magically transform the franchise with one offseason. I’d be more prone to credit marrone who was there before they hired Coughlin if I recall correctly. But I’m sure he has done a good job. Im not going to bash Coughlin to prop up Reese. He was an awesome coach for us. But everyone gets old. No one is ever thinking about hiring Tom Coughlin again in the capacity we knew
You think Reese should be fired, anyone can make a good case for doing that although I find going back to his drafts 4-5-6 years ago to be not that strong a case. The main reason to fire Reese is that the OL sucked especially at the beginning of the season. He didn't ignore the OL as many continue continue to say; he just didn't build a good one. Except that it looks like the OL might be turning the corner and that's with Pugh and Richburg hurt. The key here is Flowers who looks like he might be turning out ok. If the OL turns out ok, isn't the problem McAdoo and the coaches and not Reese?
Second, the Giants defense is clearly not an elite defense but is one of the better defenses in the league. Regardless of how how the players were obtained, isn't the decline of the defense more on the coaching than on the front office. To those who say he ignored the LBs, a few points. First, Goodson looked like he was on the rise until he got hurt; Kennard's played pretty well all season. They still continue to let TEs kill them but injuries arev a factor there to. But, alot of teams don't value LBs very highly and are successfull and how great were the Giants LBs during both SB runs?
Last, be aware that if you fire Reese, McAdoo has to go as well. You should not saddle a new GM with a coaching staff especially one that has question marks. More importantly though, if you fire Reese and then make a list of available GM candidates, Reese probably jumps to the top of the list at least of those who have experience. And for those who don't have experience, we just did that hiring a coach and how has that worked out?
The Giants' front office hasn't had a real housecleaning since 1979. Â
George Young essentially chose his successor, and so did Accorsi. Continuity and stability are good, to a point. Over the long haul, though, they also tend to breed cronyism and organizational sclerosis.
I happen to like Reese, and I'm as proud/surprised as anyone that Tim Mara's descendants picked a black GM. I still think he might need to go - not because of some bad drafts and poor UFA signings (OK, a lot of them), but because the team's roster-building philosophy seems to be lagging behind the League, and Reese appears slow to adapt.
The Giants have tied up massive resources at DE and CB, and they still can't get off the field on third down. Linebackers matter.
Reese deserves something of a pass on the immobile, expensive QB, because he inherited Eli Manning, for better and worse. And he did try to build a fortress around Eli by drafting Pugh, Richburg and Flowers in consecutive years; but he should have known coming into 2017 that the fortress was more of a rickety fence, even before the injuries hit. He bet that the fence would hold, while rising NFC rivals like the Vikings, Rams and Saints rebuilt their lines. He lost the bet, and it will probably cost him his job.
The some teams don't value LBs comment is old and worn-out and more of a cop-out excuse to deflect the actual facts that our franchise has no idea what it is doing to scout, draft and develop linebackers.
And lets not even try to suggest we are so tremendous at focusing in on and drafting elite DEs, WRs and CBs instead.
They are having a better season for sure. That can easily change next year. It’s the nfl. Also I’m skeptical how much coughlins hands could magically transform the franchise with one offseason. I’d be more prone to credit marrone who was there before they hired Coughlin if I recall correctly. But I’m sure he has done a good job. Im not going to bash Coughlin to prop up Reese. He was an awesome coach for us. But everyone gets old. No one is ever thinking about hiring Tom Coughlin again in the capacity we knew
Fair comments. And I hear you on the mercurial nature of the NFL.
I don't see Coughlin ever being a HC again either. But he's shown the ability, like his mentor Parcells, to be an excellent project manager at reclamation. He did it at BC, did it at the maiden voyage for Jax, then with the Jints, and now is moving in the right direction with Jax. He's done a really nice job in both the draft and free agency. That team is so young and deep that the right person in the QB seat - and that is certainly easier said than done to fill it - could make then an AFC powerhouse for many years...
Glad I am not the only one who notices the dog whistle Â
Last, be aware that if you fire Reese, McAdoo has to go as well. You should not saddle a new GM with a coaching staff especially one that has question marks. More importantly though, if you fire Reese and then make a list of available GM candidates, Reese probably jumps to the top of the list at least of those who have experience. And for those who don't have experience, we just did that hiring a coach and how has that worked out?
He's been gone since 2015. He has nothing to do with the 2017 Giants. We are 2-8; and are headed for a worse record in a season that TC ever had here. And before anyone tries to say it, I'm not and wasn't a TC defender. I wanted him fired well before 2015, and posters like Britt will confirm that for you, if you don't believe me.
You can't cross your fingers and hope the fence will hold Â
I know Reese had some bad drafts, but he's also had some pretty good ones lately. He's already been judged on the bad ones that happened a few years ago.
He has not ignored the OL. It just didn't develop as quickly as we all hoped.
Reese gave McAdoo a FB and multiple TEs to help with blocking but they weren't used.
McAdoo has done a very bad job this year. Reese hasn't and I don't give a rat's ass about the color of his skin.
RE: YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!! Â
While he has been the victim of several high picks that sustained career ending/altering injuries he still deserves to be fired. His refusal to adjust to a changing game has wasted several of Eli's prime years. He refused to address the linebacker position for year and he had chances to address the offensive line but he failed to do so.
After they fired Coughlin Mara basically said that Reese would be held accountable if they don't improve. Now that the Giants have gone from SB to contender to a 2-8 mess it is time to make a change. I hope they target Wolf or Decosta as GM and Gruden as HC. Let Gruden choose his franchise QB in the draft and move on from there.
How abt Giants Dan doesn’t want him fired. He has ignored the Oline and Linebacker position almost completely. I’ve never seen a GM do that before. I know tow first round picks Pugh and Flowers but both were out of desperation. Reese should be gone and Mcadoo right behind him.
It's a myth that Reese ignored the Oline. He has been drafting and signing free agents Olinemen for years. Don't confuse ineffective with ignoring. Since forever the Giants prefer to sign free agents Linebackers instead of drafting them in the top 3 rounds. Reese is a good GM and the team would be foolish to fire him.
He ignored the Oline this past offseason when it was a glaring weakness. To me this is inexcusable. Taking his race into condsideration as to whether he should be fired or not is beyond ridiculous.
When evaluating Reese, you really need to take the minority status out of the picture and only look at his body of work. Yes, he was involved and responsible for two Super Bowl victories. However, I do not give him credit for the 2007 Giants' roster. That was Accorsi's roster. Yes, Reese was involved with building it; but he wasn't the final say. The 2011 roster was more Reese's roster. But it still had Snee, McKenzie and Diehl. So, it still really wasn't Reese's O-line. What we see today is Reese's O-line.
As for his drafts, the owner went on record stating he was influencing the selections in a few of the drafts. I believe it. Reese also said that he doesn't have the final say in all draft selections. I believe that, too. That makes it harder to judge Reese on the lousy drafts. He may also not have the final say in the head coach hirings. If any/all of that is true, it certainly complicates matters.
Regardless how much owner interference there is, the owner of the team did say that this mess was on Reese.
1-7 at the mid-way point of this season looks really bad. Ownership can't be happy with that. The team has had a lot of record volatility for a long time now. One season up, the next down, getting blown out in games, looking semi-pro at times, etc.
The stretch of division games coming up will be very telling. If ownership hasn't already made up their minds, how the team looks against division rivals, especially when the Giants are home, will make up their minds. Division games are the ones that MATTER.
It will be very interesting to see how it all plays out once the season concludes.
I agree with the Flowers criticism. He mentions "ROI" but Flowers was 20 when drafted and just starting to come around , one of the better pass blocking LTs in all of football this year. ROI would include long term investment, not just short term.
Also, Apple was 20 when drafted as well. Reese has been awful in rounds 3 through 7 in most of his drafts - that is accurate. Just don't think Flowers and Apple are a good example of Reese being a bad GM.
Flowers cannot play Tackle cannot.... learn it
maybe a guard
RE: We need new leadership and talent evaluation Â
*Say what you will - Reese has 2 Super Bowl rings.
*He is not the actual GM of the team - John Mara is. And then who knows where Chris falls in the pecking order. By the time you get to Reese...he is the face of the decisions, but the Mara's are fully involved in football operations.
*Everyone and their mother thought this was a Super Bowl contender on paper. Now all the sudden Reese put a bad roster together? McAdoo potentially found an OL combination that can play halfway through the season: those players were provided in April. The defense with 6 returning All Pros tanked. Everyone thought we had one of the top secondaries in the league. That's on Reese?
*We essentially lost Odell Beckham in the preseason. The one guy other than Eli we couldn't afford to lose. That took the wind out of the sails BIG TIME, imo. Huge psychological blow to the team.
There's too much evidence this was a good team he put together that was poorly mismanaged and suffered the critical injury it could not afford. McAdoo didn't have the right players on the field with corresponding strategy to their strengths. He is the guy that should pay for this - it's a tough business and he was thrown into the fire without much experience. He was still in the baby steps of being an Offensive Coordinator.
and think he's a very good scout. As a GM, he's made some excellent high round picks, and some of those have been lost not due to anything he's done.
But here's my issue with his drafts. They aren't complete.......too many reaches and picks that don't have any return on value.
He's actually spent high picks on the OL, and they haven't worked out. Now Flowers may get there - but Pugh is always hurt (and a bit overrated in my mind) and Richburg looks like he'll return zero. Other picks on the OL - Brewer and such - were throw away development picks. That caught up to the team which had a deep roster at one time.
If there was any time to go in a new direction and tear down the scouting department, it's now. Eli is almost at the end of his career here - two more years tops you'd think - start to rebuild the franchise under new leadership and go in a different direction.
Reese is a good evaluator - again his #1 picks have been excellent for the most part, but he deserves blame for the
organization under him doing the scouting too which I believe he relies heavily on to make lower round picks.
RE: Before the season, most people thought this roster was good Â
I know Reese had some bad drafts, but he's also had some pretty good ones lately. He's already been judged on the bad ones that happened a few years ago.
He has not ignored the OL. It just didn't develop as quickly as we all hoped.
Reese gave McAdoo a FB and multiple TEs to help with blocking but they weren't used.
McAdoo has done a very bad job this year. Reese hasn't and I don't give a rat's ass about the color of his skin.
Whose job is it make sure the right HC is there and that team is built to work with the HC.. Whether BM was JR's call or not.. Its part of JRs job.. either JR hired him or agreed with the ownership and didn't try to convince the owners that this was wrong.. at the end of the day.. JR is the GM and he brought this coach in..
As far as the OL.. there is this thing called timeliness.. its not like he had forever to fix the OL and as long as it was fixed before 2065, JR did his job.. in 2012 we had a horrible OL with an immobile aging QB.. he should have acted accordingly.. why draft projects out of college (Everyone knew Flowers wasn't ready to start for a couple of years)..
We are 8-10 games below .500 since 2012.. with a HoF QB in his prime.. at this point its been long enough that we can judge that our current record is JR's fault as much as anyone else..
His drafts have been terrible after round 2, and even his early round record is spotty. His FA record has been up and down as well.
Philosophically he devalues the OL and LB positions. That’s clear from his drafting record. Early on in his tenure this didn’t matter because he inherited one of the best OL’s in the league and a defense with a legitimate MLB (Pierce). Since that time he’s allowed both aspects of the team to erode due to bad drafting and FA acquisitions, and here we are. It’s time to move on.
He has proven to be a capable GM as evidenced by the fact that he had a huge hand in two Sb winning teams within the past decade. Yes, even the 07 team who people try and dilute his credit for. Did he get dumb at an age well before anyone should be questioning a loss of faculties? Or is it the more logical explanation.....that the draft is a crap shoot prone to luck and variance and that if you do this long enough you will have some dry periods. What’s going on with Ozzie newsome in Baltimore recently? How did bill polian do at the end in Indy when the Manning injury showed us just how much number 18 was covering up for some down offseasons. A few years ago John elway is the toast of the nfl. Now what’s up?
Firing Reese would be dumb. We have someone who is still relatively young that has shown an eye for talent and displayed the ability to compose rosters that sit under confetti in February, and we aren’t far removed from it. Pulling the plug because of a down few years would just be silly
And again some of the disrespect shown for a guy (bum ass bum?) who has done so much for us is sickening. Especially given what he represents to a lot of people
It's dumb not to question a GM that has had drafted badly for 7 years, hasn't found one UDFA who can contribute since Cruz and had to be handed a check for 200 million in order to have a creditable defense. This past off-season, he had a team seriously lacking in speed on offense and added a slug tight end at a multi million dollar contract and a slug wideout with fork sticking out of his back to another multmillion dollar contract. He's a bad GM and should be gone.
Wheeler?
I'd love the Giants to hire David Shaw of Stanford Â
He has proven to be a capable GM as evidenced by the fact that he had a huge hand in two Sb winning teams within the past decade. Yes, even the 07 team who people try and dilute his credit for. Did he get dumb at an age well before anyone should be questioning a loss of faculties? Or is it the more logical explanation.....that the draft is a crap shoot prone to luck and variance and that if you do this long enough you will have some dry periods. What’s going on with Ozzie newsome in Baltimore recently? How did bill polian do at the end in Indy when the Manning injury showed us just how much number 18 was covering up for some down offseasons. A few years ago John elway is the toast of the nfl. Now what’s up?
Firing Reese would be dumb. We have someone who is still relatively young that has shown an eye for talent and displayed the ability to compose rosters that sit under confetti in February, and we aren’t far removed from it. Pulling the plug because of a down few years would just be silly
And again some of the disrespect shown for a guy (bum ass bum?) who has done so much for us is sickening. Especially given what he represents to a lot of people
It's dumb not to question a GM that has had drafted badly for 7 years, hasn't found one UDFA who can contribute since Cruz and had to be handed a check for 200 million in order to have a creditable defense. This past off-season, he had a team seriously lacking in speed on offense and added a slug tight end at a multi million dollar contract and a slug wideout with fork sticking out of his back to another multmillion dollar contract. He's a bad GM and should be gone.
Wheeler?
lets have Wheeler play a few games before we put him in Canton
he needs a year in an NFL weightroom and coaching, but he looks good
Especially given what he represents to a lot of people
You really need to stop with this race nonsense. People explained WHY this has nothing to do with race a million times and you continually bring it up. Nobody should be immune to criticism and it’s rather disappointing that you seem to think that Reese should be treated with kids gloves because he’s black. We get it. Many people look up to him and it’s great that he’s been able to possible open doors for other minorities. But that should have zero influence on how people feel about the job he’s done or whether the team decides to keep him or let him go.
It’s true Reese has his hands on the 11 team more than the 07 team, and it’s true accorsi deserves some credit for 07 too. But as I’m sure you realize, Reese didn’t just show up in 07. He was basically running Giants drafts for 4 years before that after being elevated to director of player personnel. He was being eased into being the next GM and the only reason it did not happen sooner is because the Giants had concerns that he wasn’t ready to be the public face (deal with the media etc), and they were probably right about that as he had his missteps early on (see how he handled petitgout in the media when pressed about his release). When it came to big picture decisions like the Eli deal the organization put their heads together and made those kinds of calls, but for the most part Reese was given free reign with the drafts for a few years before 07. This has been widely reported. And of course the 07 draft itself was one of the best one year impact drafts ever for a sb winner, even though it didn’t age out as an amazing haul
RE: I'd love the Giants to hire David Shaw of Stanford Â
How abt Giants Dan doesn’t want him fired. He has ignored the Oline and Linebacker position almost completely. I’ve never seen a GM do that before. I know tow first round picks Pugh and Flowers but both were out of desperation. Reese should be gone and Mcadoo right behind him.
It's a myth that Reese ignored the Oline. He has been drafting and signing free agents Olinemen for years. Don't confuse ineffective with ignoring. Since forever the Giants prefer to sign free agents Linebackers instead of drafting them in the top 3 rounds. Reese is a good GM and the team would be foolish to fire him.
Very true. he has not ignored the o-line. He has not been very good with the draft choices, FA signings and UDFA signings he has made to build it. I don't see where recognizing an issue and then not competently fixing that issue is any kind of pass.
RE: RE: I'd love the Giants to hire David Shaw of Stanford Â
It’s true Reese has his hands on the 11 team more than the 07 team, and it’s true accorsi deserves some credit for 07 too. But as I’m sure you realize, Reese didn’t just show up in 07. He was basically running Giants drafts for 4 years before that after being elevated to director of player personnel. He was being eased into being the next GM and the only reason it did not happen sooner is because the Giants had concerns that he wasn’t ready to be the public face (deal with the media etc), and they were probably right about that as he had his missteps early on (see how he handled petitgout in the media when pressed about his release). When it came to big picture decisions like the Eli deal the organization put their heads together and made those kinds of calls, but for the most part Reese was given free reign with the drafts for a few years before 07. This has been widely reported. And of course the 07 draft itself was one of the best one year impact drafts ever for a sb winner, even though it didn’t age out as an amazing haul
Reese doesnt win in 2007 or 2011 with our Ernies pick of Manning
RE: So, Dave... Reese lost his mind in the last 6 years? Â
Or do you have no understanding of how luck and variance can impact draft success? Entering this year many people felt the Giants roster was worthy of Sb consideration on paper at least. Hasn’t worked out, injuries sure haven’t helped either... nor has a coach in over his head who I am skeptical would have been Reese’s top choice
Jerry Reese is a 54 year old man. Unless he has some really earl onset Alzheimer’s I’m gonna let his track record and the fact that someone else would hire him in 5 seconds speak more loudly than some fans lack of understanding for this process. There has never been a gm
Who has ever lived that has not had a down period if he did it long enough
I agree that his track record should speak for itself. That track record has been lousy for seven years now.
Ok. And that team doesn’t win in 07 without a bunch of factors Reese had his fingerprints all over as well. That entire roster outside of strahan and Toomer was basically acquired during the window when Reese became empowered
He's been GM for over 10 years, majority of those years - no playoffs.
Bad(mediocre ) drafts. His forte was supposedly able to pick hidden gems in late rounds.
Record over 10 years, at best .500+/-.
He had his run ... time to go.
I doubt the NFL will be knocking down his door with offers.
Ok. And that team doesn’t win in 07 without a bunch of factors Reese had his fingerprints all over as well. That entire roster outside of strahan and Toomer was basically acquired during the window when Reese became empowered
agree Reese 2007 was his best, but what about after?
It’s true Reese has his hands on the 11 team more than the 07 team, and it’s true accorsi deserves some credit for 07 too. But as I’m sure you realize, Reese didn’t just show up in 07. He was basically running Giants drafts for 4 years before that after being elevated to director of player personnel. He was being eased into being the next GM and the only reason it did not happen sooner is because the Giants had concerns that he wasn’t ready to be the public face (deal with the media etc), and they were probably right about that as he had his missteps early on (see how he handled petitgout in the media when pressed about his release). When it came to big picture decisions like the Eli deal the organization put their heads together and made those kinds of calls, but for the most part Reese was given free reign with the drafts for a few years before 07. This has been widely reported. And of course the 07 draft itself was one of the best one year impact drafts ever for a sb winner, even though it didn’t age out as an amazing haul
I agree with you that he was a great director of personnel.. when he could focus solely on drafts.. we were getting studs in later rounds.. Tuck, Jacobs, Gibril Wilson.. but I doubt JR would want to be demoted to that position so he can concentrate of just the draft and players.. GM has many responsibilities.. and as seen by his record over the past 6 years he sucks at the GM job..
It’s true Reese has his hands on the 11 team more than the 07 team, and it’s true accorsi deserves some credit for 07 too. But as I’m sure you realize, Reese didn’t just show up in 07. He was basically running Giants drafts for 4 years before that after being elevated to director of player personnel. He was being eased into being the next GM and the only reason it did not happen sooner is because the Giants had concerns that he wasn’t ready to be the public face (deal with the media etc), and they were probably right about that as he had his missteps early on (see how he handled petitgout in the media when pressed about his release). When it came to big picture decisions like the Eli deal the organization put their heads together and made those kinds of calls, but for the most part Reese was given free reign with the drafts for a few years before 07. This has been widely reported. And of course the 07 draft itself was one of the best one year impact drafts ever for a sb winner, even though it didn’t age out as an amazing haul
Reese doesnt win in 2007 or 2011 with our Ernies pick of Manning
Basically the top 15 players on the giants 2007 team came when Ernie was the GM..
If tyree doesn’t make the catch off his helmet? We can play the what if game all we want and alter a lot of legacies, that also goes for people that I’m sure you love more than Reese. What is Eli’s legacy if not for the tyree catch? Or the ball bouncing off the 49ers punt returner? Or a million other plays that were key in those runs. What is Coughlins legacy? Things played out the way they did, history is what it was. He played a key role in building 2 Sb winners. And within the last decade
Down stretch of late for sure. It happens in that position to everyone who is afforded the opportunity to do it long enough. Some gms are better than others and of course there is something to be said for having an eye for talent. But luck and variance also plays a big role. Anyone who tells you the draft is an exact science doesn’t know what they are talking about. A good GM can have a down run. At Reese’s age I have a tough time thinking he’s done
If tyree doesn’t make the catch off his helmet? We can play the what if game all we want and alter a lot of legacies, that also goes for people that I’m sure you love more than Reese. What is Eli’s legacy if not for the tyree catch? Or the ball bouncing off the 49ers punt returner? Or a million other plays that were key in those runs. What is Coughlins legacy? Things played out the way they did, history is what it was. He played a key role in building 2 Sb winners. And within the last decade
Down stretch of late for sure. It happens in that position to everyone who is afforded the opportunity to do it long enough. Some gms are better than others and of course there is something to be said for having an eye for talent. But luck and variance also plays a big role. Anyone who tells you the draft is an exact science doesn’t know what they are talking about. A good GM can have a down run. At Reese’s age I have a tough time thinking he’s done
stop defendinf Reese
he hired ross , makes the picks and is responsible for this team
we changed everything else already sir...take the blinders off
The top 15 players came from when accorsi was gm? Without bothering to debate that point, that doesn’t mean Reese didn’t have a big role in acquiring much if not most of that 15. We know he did. Don’t overestimate the power accorsi had especially near the end. If he had his way Tom Coughlin wouldn’t have been our coach. They had Reese pegged as gm long before they gave him the official title...only reason Reese had to wait as long as he did to get the official title is because they weren’t sure about him being out in the forefront quite yet with the press, compared to accorsi the polished sportswriter. And early on reese absolutely did things to justify those concerns.
I also don’t buy that accorsi picked his successor in Reese. They wouldn’t allow him to pick a coach but they allow him to pick a gm? I’m sure he put in a good word
We are one year removed from an 11-5 season led by the most dynamic young skill player and the most dynamic young defender (of last season at least) in the entire sport, both guys Reese recently drafted. And what happened in the 7th year that you set your cutoff date just before? Oh yea something some gms spend their whole lives trying and failing to accomplish over decades
We have a 54 year old man who has his hands all over two Sb winners within the past decade and people are acting like parting with him is just a no brainer. He has earned the right to at least outlive the aging qb and inept head coach and see if he can get this back on track
The top 15 players came from when accorsi was gm? Without bothering to debate that point, that doesn’t mean Reese didn’t have a big role in acquiring much if not most of that 15. We know he did. Don’t overestimate the power accorsi had especially near the end. If he had his way Tom Coughlin wouldn’t have been our coach. They had Reese pegged as gm long before they gave him the official title...only reason Reese had to wait as long as he did to get the official title is because they weren’t sure about him being out in the forefront quite yet with the press, compared to accorsi the polished sportswriter. And early on reese absolutely did things to justify those concerns.
I also don’t buy that accorsi picked his successor in Reese. They wouldn’t allow him to pick a coach but they allow him to pick a gm? I’m sure he put in a good word
I already talked about the points you mentioned in the earlier post that JR was a great director of Personnel.. May be the new GM can hire him as the Director of Personnel.. Reese sucks as the GM and has been sucking it pretty badly for over 6 years.. time to move on..
We are one year removed from an 11-5 season led by the most dynamic young skill player and the most dynamic young defender (of last season at least) in the entire sport, both guys Reese recently drafted. And what happened in the 7th year that you set your cutoff date just before? Oh yea something some gms spend their whole lives trying and failing to accomplish over decades
We have a 54 year old man who has his hands all over two Sb winners within the past decade and people are acting like parting with him is just a no brainer. He has earned the right to at least outlive the aging qb and inept head coach and see if he can get this back on track
Bahaha try this in business, I had a 6 year down period, do I get to keep my job? LUTZ
Depends. Did you reach the mountaintop of your profession more/as often as anyone in the entire industry within the past decade and are one year removed from a successful campaign?
I have my doubts, sight unseen, buying that you can equate any success you’ve had in whatever your industry is to Reese
We are one year removed from an 11-5 season led by the most dynamic young skill player and the most dynamic young defender (of last season at least) in the entire sport, both guys Reese recently drafted. And what happened in the 7th year that you set your cutoff date just before? Oh yea something some gms spend their whole lives trying and failing to accomplish over decades
We have a 54 year old man who has his hands all over two Sb winners within the past decade and people are acting like parting with him is just a no brainer. He has earned the right to at least outlive the aging qb and inept head coach and see if he can get this back on track
He's been drafting terrible for years now. Beckham alone doesn't change that.
He got to outlast the HOF head coach. He doesn't get to outlast another HC, that was named HC with him in charge. 6 years is along time, especially in sports. He's had numerous chances to fix the problems, and has failed miserably for more then a half-decade straight. He had his chances and has been given an extremely long leash. It's over.
You can bet the house that Jerry Reese was not the one who I.D.d diamonds in the rough like David Diehl and Victor Cruz.
That Jerry was very lucky is evident in how badly he misunderstood the basics of football and league trends since then.
When varied posters like reddog and (I think Fatman is down with firing Reese) agree, that speaks volumes.
Harv83 is new...what does that indicate here?
Jerry Reese's addiction for certain types in early rounds (being very circumspect and polite here) has been evident for a long while and lost us 5 years R and D.
I may be new (or new-ish) around here but you can actually follow the Giants independent of this website, as hard as it may be to believe. In fact probably 99% of Giants followers do just that. I seem to see the same 15-25 posters posting all the time but the stadium and tv ratings tell me more people than that are watching these games
Also how did you just pull from your behind who Reese did or didn’t identify without having any access to the room. We know he was in a position of power but apparently had nothing to do with anything positive in that time
RE: What does being “new” have to do with anything? Â
I may be new (or new-ish) around here but you can actually follow the Giants independent of this website, as hard as it may be to believe. In fact probably 99% of Giants followers do just that. I seem to see the same 15-25 posters posting all the time but the stadium and tv ratings tell me more people than that are watching these games
Also how did you just pull from your behind who Reese did or didn’t identify without having any access to the room. We know he was in a position of power but apparently had nothing to do with anything positive in that time
You don’t sound new. You sound pretty knowledgeable and likely posted here before under a different handle.
I’ll take that as a compliment? Lol. You’re right I did have a prior handle I created during the 11 playoffs but if I posted 5 times under it that would be a lot. Went years inactive forgot my info and created this one . Don’t post much under this one either but been pretty active the last few weeks
Way too many variables in football to pin blame on one person. It’s a lot like making a good film, you need a good script to work off and all of the departments working cohesively with the talent in place to pull it off. Which is why I don’t understand everyone picks one person to blame here. Everyone is to blame. Reese has done some good things and bad things. I don’t think he’s as bad as people make him out to be. That said, there has been consistent organizational failures for over half a decade now that I think a complete restructuring and getting new people in place would be good. The offense has been failing the team since mid-2012. The defense was awful for a long time but I think the defense is good enough to win in this league whem they play to their potential. The offense needs a new mindset and bolstering the talent up-front. Another off-season can do that if done smart.
The way in which the Giants won the 2011 Super Bowl led them to being reactive as opposed to proactive. They’ve been trying to catch lightning in the bottle again and it hasn’t worked.
Qualitative argument against Reese, and I think we can and have done that.
Simply juxtapose the leading assumptions inherent in last off seasons decisions and contrast those with this regular seasons realities, for one example.
But even from a point-of -emphasis argument, I think the case has made itself, at this point for a new one, and that case having made itself over ten years. It's not his thing right now ...find someone who has that different point of emphasis and skill set.
I actually would have no problem giving JR the first pick, as he’s been pretty solid with first round picks. The rest? Not so much. What I don’t like about Reese is the way he always seems to be blaming other people. To the extent we take away anything from his rare media appearances this isn’t a guy setting the right tone for leadership. I really lost all respect for JR on TC “retirement” presser. Not because I was some sort of TC fanboy, I was not, but because the whole process leading up to TCs dismissal and then JRs comments left me thinking that JR was a weasel.
He has to go. The record speaks for itself. 2016 was an aberration. The norm has been, for the most part, 6-10. This year is going to be much worse. Does anyone really trust that fuck picking inside the top 5 after he’s blown 2 top 10 picks recently, in Flowers and Apple? Come on man. And for those who say he’d get a GM job immediately: you’re joking right? Zero chance another owner is handing the keys to the castle over to a GM who was the architect of a 2-14 or 3-13 team. Get real.
How abt Giants Dan doesn’t want him fired. He has ignored the Oline and Linebacker position almost completely. I’ve never seen a GM do that before. I know tow first round picks Pugh and Flowers but both were out of desperation. Reese should be gone and Mcadoo right behind him.
It's a myth that Reese ignored the Oline. He has been drafting and signing free agents Olinemen for years. Don't confuse ineffective with ignoring. Since forever the Giants prefer to sign free agents Linebackers instead of drafting them in the top 3 rounds. Reese is a good GM and the team would be foolish to fire him.
He ignored the Oline this past offseason when it was a glaring weakness. To me this is inexcusable. Taking his race into condsideration as to whether he should be fired or not is beyond ridiculous.
(1) I didn't inject or alluded to race in my discussion. (2) How can you say he ignored the Oline this past off season when he drafted an OT, signed another OT as an UDFA and signed a vet O lineman in free agency?
I’ll take that as a compliment? Lol. You’re right I did have a prior handle I created during the 11 playoffs but if I posted 5 times under it that would be a lot. Went years inactive forgot my info and created this one . Don’t post much under this one either but been pretty active the last few weeks
Do you mentally view every poster as an angry white guy? JFC
How abt Giants Dan doesn’t want him fired. He has ignored the Oline and Linebacker position almost completely. I’ve never seen a GM do that before. I know tow first round picks Pugh and Flowers but both were out of desperation. Reese should be gone and Mcadoo right behind him.
It's a myth that Reese ignored the Oline. He has been drafting and signing free agents Olinemen for years. Don't confuse ineffective with ignoring. Since forever the Giants prefer to sign free agents Linebackers instead of drafting them in the top 3 rounds. Reese is a good GM and the team would be foolish to fire him.
He ignored the Oline this past offseason when it was a glaring weakness. To me this is inexcusable. Taking his race into condsideration as to whether he should be fired or not is beyond ridiculous.
(1) I didn't inject or alluded to race in my discussion. (2) How can you say he ignored the Oline this past off season when he drafted an OT, signed another OT as an UDFA and signed a vet O lineman in free agency?
The Harv guy mentioned race or alluded to it anyway. Drafting a lineman in the 6th round and taking a flyer on a guy who wasn’t considered good and UDFA isn’t addressing a poor offensive line.
Sometimes you just need to do something different Â
I think Reese is good with the cap and good with the early part of the draft but his later rounds of the draft, never trading down and leaving the Giant's thin year in and year out at linebacker is reason to move on. One playoff in the last five years is not good. The Giant's need to go in another direction IMHO
but I for one am tired of Reese getting a pass when in my opinion he is responsible for most of this mess we're in right now. Its time for him to be held accountable for whats wrong the last few years.........
if Giants fired him , Jerry Reese would instantly get another GM job in NFL .
With 4 - 7 teams calling the next day
Yes because those teams are the Browns, Niners, Bengals and other perennial basement dwellers. They can have him. A bottom-10 GM ahould be out on his ass.
He’s had YEARS to fix this mess. It’s 2017. Aside from a flyke last year, this team has not been competitive with it finally bottoming out this year.
Anyone opposed to his firing is either on the take or delusional.
He's been GM for over 10 years, majority of those years - no playoffs.
Bad(mediocre ) drafts. His forte was supposedly able to pick hidden gems in late rounds.
Record over 10 years, at best .500+/-.
He had his run ... time to go.
I doubt the NFL will be knocking down his door with offers.
Right, and how many of his draft picks from 2012 through 2016 are still playing as compared to other GMs?
As far as the two SBs, let’s be honest, neither of those teams were dominating or overpowering. We had one year of that (2008). Ea h of the 2007 and 2011 teams were fundamentally flawed, but got hot at the right time and overachieved due to a HOF coach that looks like a genius even in his (befuddled) final year as compared to Macadoo.
Also, Apple was 20 when drafted as well. Reese has been awful in rounds 3 through 7 in most of his drafts - that is accurate. Just don't think Flowers and Apple are a good example of Reese being a bad GM.
Get that bum ass bum out of this organization now!!!
I put 75% of our blame on JR and 25% on McAdoodoo!
If Flowers-Jerry-Jones-Fluker-Pugh maybe Dallas and Detroit are different ball games but apparently there was no camp competition to earn your spot.
The worst thing Reese did that past offseason was sign Brandon Marshall and that was widely praised here on BBI.
If Flowers-Jerry-Jones-Fluker-Pugh maybe Dallas and Detroit are different ball games but apparently there was no camp competition to earn your spot.
The worst thing Reese did that past offseason was sign Brandon Marshall and that was widely praised here on BBI.
LOL yeah signing a guy to a 2 year deal below market value really killed us this year and set this franchise back years to come!!!!
Firing Reese would be dumb. We have someone who is still relatively young that has shown an eye for talent and displayed the ability to compose rosters that sit under confetti in February, and we aren’t far removed from it. Pulling the plug because of a down few years would just be silly
And again some of the disrespect shown for a guy (bum ass bum?) who has done so much for us is sickening. Especially given what he represents to a lot of people
With 4 - 7 teams calling the next day
Firing Reese would be dumb. We have someone who is still relatively young that has shown an eye for talent and displayed the ability to compose rosters that sit under confetti in February, and we aren’t far removed from it. Pulling the plug because of a down few years would just be silly
And again some of the disrespect shown for a guy (bum ass bum?) who has done so much for us is sickening. Especially given what he represents to a lot of people
Firing Reese would be dumb. We have someone who is still relatively young that has shown an eye for talent and displayed the ability to compose rosters that sit under confetti in February, and we aren’t far removed from it. Pulling the plug because of a down few years would just be silly
And again some of the disrespect shown for a guy (bum ass bum?) who has done so much for us is sickening. Especially given what he represents to a lot of people
Well said. Out of Coughlin, Eli & Reese, Reese doesn’t get the credit for the Super Bowls.
They spent $200M on guys because his drafts have been so poor. He mismanaged the OL that they haven't been running succesfully for near five seasons. Before Engram, the TE situation was miserable. That is on him.
They spent $200M on guys because his drafts have been so poor. He mismanaged the OL that they haven't been running succesfully for near five seasons. Before Engram, the TE situation was miserable. That is on him.
Exactly and all of our linebackers are back up level
I get that Tom was old, tired, had lost the team, etc. and you want to shake things up. But that $200-million spree the second Tom was out the door really rankled.
Protecting your immobile, thirty-something QB should have always been priority number one and he consistently under-allocated.
Reese just has an enormous hard-on for D-line and secondary. Given the resources spent there, we should have the league's gold standard for both. We can't even say that. And don't get me started on the bubble gum and snot holding the rest of the roster together.
Then the Beatty injury threw this whole OL configuration for a loop in 2015. Flowers was drafted to play RT, don't forget that. At the time they selected him, Beatty had already earned his 2nd contract from the team.
Jones, Jerry, Hart were never intended to start here. Schwartz was a bust and Beatty got hurt. Richburg has been underwhelming but I'm not sure a total bust yet.
There have been missteps and some bad luck along the OL but it hasnt been ignored. And as far as this season with the addition of Fluker, as stated above, McAdoo actually had components for a better OL than what he stubbornly put out there for 5 weeks. That's not on Reese.
He should have been drafting and spending like a fool until he got this right. Either that or trade Eli for someone who can outrun defensive ends.
You really need to stop with this race nonsense. People explained WHY this has nothing to do with race a million times and you continually bring it up. Nobody should be immune to criticism and it’s rather disappointing that you seem to think that Reese should be treated with kids gloves because he’s black. We get it. Many people look up to him and it’s great that he’s been able to possible open doors for other minorities. But that should have zero influence on how people feel about the job he’s done or whether the team decides to keep him or let him go.
No. Flacco has wasted his prime years. The epitome of a one hit wonder...
Reese came along for the ride, a passenger. Time for a new voice.
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Haven’t the Ravens wasted Joe Flacco’s prime years?
No. Flacco has wasted his prime years. The epitome of a one hit wonder...
The hypocrisy is hilarious. We all hate the other fanbases when they bash Eli. Flacco won a Super Bowl and a ton of road playoff wins.
I’m a Reese backer because I feel he’s a good gm. I’m also immensely proud of him for what he represents. If you take issue with that then fuck off
Hilarious.
And spare us the race card BS.
Dumb shit
Dumb shit
2 SBs that were 10 and 6 seasons ago. And making the postseason once out of the past 6 seasons since.
Lets forget that, though, of course.
It's a myth that Reese ignored the Oline. He has been drafting and signing free agents Olinemen for years. Don't confuse ineffective with ignoring. Since forever the Giants prefer to sign free agents Linebackers instead of drafting them in the top 3 rounds. Reese is a good GM and the team would be foolish to fire him.
I’m a Reese backer because I feel he’s a good gm. I’m also immensely proud of him for what he represents. If you take issue with that then fuck off
Nice response. You seem like someone that we should all take seriously.
No. Flacco has wasted his prime years. The epitome of a one hit wonder...
The hypocrisy is hilarious. We all hate the other fanbases when they bash Eli. Flacco won a Super Bowl and a ton of road playoff wins.
Who mentioned Eli. If you think 198 career TDs with 128 INTs, and never a season without double digit interceptions, are "prime years" then indeed Flacco is your guy...
Jerry Reese is a 54 year old man. Unless he has some really earl onset Alzheimer’s I’m gonna let his track record and the fact that someone else would hire him in 5 seconds speak more loudly than some fans lack of understanding for this process. There has never been a gm
Who has ever lived that has not had a down period if he did it long enough
Period.
Reese came along for the ride, a passenger. Time for a new voice.
So if Reese doesn't get credit for the team prior success why is he getting blame for the team woes now?
Jerry Reese is a 54 year old man. Unless he has some really earl onset Alzheimer’s I’m gonna let his track record and the fact that someone else would hire him in 5 seconds speak more loudly than some fans lack of understanding for this process. There has never been a gm
Who has ever lived that has not had a down period if he did it long enough
Did Tom Coughlin forget how to coach? Or we're the players not good enough?
Jerry Reese is a 54 year old man. Unless he has some really earl onset Alzheimer’s I’m gonna let his track record and the fact that someone else would hire him in 5 seconds speak more loudly than some fans lack of understanding for this process. There has never been a gm
Who has ever lived that has not had a down period if he did it long enough
Bullshit. Don't blame injures, the Giants were 0-5 before the injury bug hit, before Beckham got hurt.
6 years, more then half of a decade, isn't a 'down period.' Stop with the BS excuses. He survived the firing of one coach already. He doesn't get 2.
Again In 5 seconds
He foolishly left the Safety position under-manned in 2009, despite warnings from the position coach, leading them to sign a bunch of has-beens off the street during the season to fill the roster.
He has left some positions (LB, TE, OL) short of real talent for years on end.
So he has had to compensate by over-paying for veteran free agents, a short-term fix, as shown by what happened from last season to this season.
Look at his effing record. It stinks.
Better yet maybe we can trade him for a halfway decent Linebacker since we will never find one with him at the helm...
Has got to be one of the most amazing magic tricks ever performed in the history of civilization. John Mara can probably pull white doves out of his ass too
Enough said.
So yea I’d be skeptical about making a point about Jax’s position vis a vi us right now
Second, the Giants defense is clearly not an elite defense but is one of the better defenses in the league. Regardless of how how the players were obtained, isn't the decline of the defense more on the coaching than on the front office. To those who say he ignored the LBs, a few points. First, Goodson looked like he was on the rise until he got hurt; Kennard's played pretty well all season. They still continue to let TEs kill them but injuries arev a factor there to. But, alot of teams don't value LBs very highly and are successfull and how great were the Giants LBs during both SB runs?
Last, be aware that if you fire Reese, McAdoo has to go as well. You should not saddle a new GM with a coaching staff especially one that has question marks. More importantly though, if you fire Reese and then make a list of available GM candidates, Reese probably jumps to the top of the list at least of those who have experience. And for those who don't have experience, we just did that hiring a coach and how has that worked out?
I happen to like Reese, and I'm as proud/surprised as anyone that Tim Mara's descendants picked a black GM. I still think he might need to go - not because of some bad drafts and poor UFA signings (OK, a lot of them), but because the team's roster-building philosophy seems to be lagging behind the League, and Reese appears slow to adapt.
The Giants have tied up massive resources at DE and CB, and they still can't get off the field on third down. Linebackers matter.
Reese deserves something of a pass on the immobile, expensive QB, because he inherited Eli Manning, for better and worse. And he did try to build a fortress around Eli by drafting Pugh, Richburg and Flowers in consecutive years; but he should have known coming into 2017 that the fortress was more of a rickety fence, even before the injuries hit. He bet that the fence would hold, while rising NFC rivals like the Vikings, Rams and Saints rebuilt their lines. He lost the bet, and it will probably cost him his job.
The some teams don't value LBs comment is old and worn-out and more of a cop-out excuse to deflect the actual facts that our franchise has no idea what it is doing to scout, draft and develop linebackers.
And lets not even try to suggest we are so tremendous at focusing in on and drafting elite DEs, WRs and CBs instead.
Because we aren't...
Fair comments. And I hear you on the mercurial nature of the NFL.
I don't see Coughlin ever being a HC again either. But he's shown the ability, like his mentor Parcells, to be an excellent project manager at reclamation. He did it at BC, did it at the maiden voyage for Jax, then with the Jints, and now is moving in the right direction with Jax. He's done a really nice job in both the draft and free agency. That team is so young and deep that the right person in the QB seat - and that is certainly easier said than done to fill it - could make then an AFC powerhouse for many years...
Last, be aware that if you fire Reese, McAdoo has to go as well. You should not saddle a new GM with a coaching staff especially one that has question marks. More importantly though, if you fire Reese and then make a list of available GM candidates, Reese probably jumps to the top of the list at least of those who have experience. And for those who don't have experience, we just did that hiring a coach and how has that worked out?
Bingo
You HAVE to get that right. If Reese can't figure that out after a decade as Eli's GM he should be fired.
I know Reese had some bad drafts, but he's also had some pretty good ones lately. He's already been judged on the bad ones that happened a few years ago.
He has not ignored the OL. It just didn't develop as quickly as we all hoped.
Reese gave McAdoo a FB and multiple TEs to help with blocking but they weren't used.
McAdoo has done a very bad job this year. Reese hasn't and I don't give a rat's ass about the color of his skin.
Get that bum ass bum out of this organization now!!!
I put 75% of our blame on JR and 25% on McAdoodoo!
And 0% on the players?
After they fired Coughlin Mara basically said that Reese would be held accountable if they don't improve. Now that the Giants have gone from SB to contender to a 2-8 mess it is time to make a change. I hope they target Wolf or Decosta as GM and Gruden as HC. Let Gruden choose his franchise QB in the draft and move on from there.
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How abt Giants Dan doesn’t want him fired. He has ignored the Oline and Linebacker position almost completely. I’ve never seen a GM do that before. I know tow first round picks Pugh and Flowers but both were out of desperation. Reese should be gone and Mcadoo right behind him.
It's a myth that Reese ignored the Oline. He has been drafting and signing free agents Olinemen for years. Don't confuse ineffective with ignoring. Since forever the Giants prefer to sign free agents Linebackers instead of drafting them in the top 3 rounds. Reese is a good GM and the team would be foolish to fire him.
He ignored the Oline this past offseason when it was a glaring weakness. To me this is inexcusable. Taking his race into condsideration as to whether he should be fired or not is beyond ridiculous.
As for his drafts, the owner went on record stating he was influencing the selections in a few of the drafts. I believe it. Reese also said that he doesn't have the final say in all draft selections. I believe that, too. That makes it harder to judge Reese on the lousy drafts. He may also not have the final say in the head coach hirings. If any/all of that is true, it certainly complicates matters.
Regardless how much owner interference there is, the owner of the team did say that this mess was on Reese.
1-7 at the mid-way point of this season looks really bad. Ownership can't be happy with that. The team has had a lot of record volatility for a long time now. One season up, the next down, getting blown out in games, looking semi-pro at times, etc.
The stretch of division games coming up will be very telling. If ownership hasn't already made up their minds, how the team looks against division rivals, especially when the Giants are home, will make up their minds. Division games are the ones that MATTER.
It will be very interesting to see how it all plays out once the season concludes.
Also, Apple was 20 when drafted as well. Reese has been awful in rounds 3 through 7 in most of his drafts - that is accurate. Just don't think Flowers and Apple are a good example of Reese being a bad GM.
Flowers cannot play Tackle cannot.... learn it
maybe a guard
agree
*He is not the actual GM of the team - John Mara is. And then who knows where Chris falls in the pecking order. By the time you get to Reese...he is the face of the decisions, but the Mara's are fully involved in football operations.
*Everyone and their mother thought this was a Super Bowl contender on paper. Now all the sudden Reese put a bad roster together? McAdoo potentially found an OL combination that can play halfway through the season: those players were provided in April. The defense with 6 returning All Pros tanked. Everyone thought we had one of the top secondaries in the league. That's on Reese?
*We essentially lost Odell Beckham in the preseason. The one guy other than Eli we couldn't afford to lose. That took the wind out of the sails BIG TIME, imo. Huge psychological blow to the team.
There's too much evidence this was a good team he put together that was poorly mismanaged and suffered the critical injury it could not afford. McAdoo didn't have the right players on the field with corresponding strategy to their strengths. He is the guy that should pay for this - it's a tough business and he was thrown into the fire without much experience. He was still in the baby steps of being an Offensive Coordinator.
If Flowers-Jerry-Jones-Fluker-Pugh maybe Dallas and Detroit are different ball games but apparently there was no camp competition to earn your spot.
The worst thing Reese did that past offseason was sign Brandon Marshall and that was widely praised here on BBI.
you are kidding yourself about Flowers
he's awful...
Period.
reese has blown draft after draft
Hilarious.
And spare us the race card BS.
Agree with this 100%
But here's my issue with his drafts. They aren't complete.......too many reaches and picks that don't have any return on value.
He's actually spent high picks on the OL, and they haven't worked out. Now Flowers may get there - but Pugh is always hurt (and a bit overrated in my mind) and Richburg looks like he'll return zero. Other picks on the OL - Brewer and such - were throw away development picks. That caught up to the team which had a deep roster at one time.
If there was any time to go in a new direction and tear down the scouting department, it's now. Eli is almost at the end of his career here - two more years tops you'd think - start to rebuild the franchise under new leadership and go in a different direction.
Reese is a good evaluator - again his #1 picks have been excellent for the most part, but he deserves blame for the
organization under him doing the scouting too which I believe he relies heavily on to make lower round picks.
I know Reese had some bad drafts, but he's also had some pretty good ones lately. He's already been judged on the bad ones that happened a few years ago.
He has not ignored the OL. It just didn't develop as quickly as we all hoped.
Reese gave McAdoo a FB and multiple TEs to help with blocking but they weren't used.
McAdoo has done a very bad job this year. Reese hasn't and I don't give a rat's ass about the color of his skin.
Whose job is it make sure the right HC is there and that team is built to work with the HC.. Whether BM was JR's call or not.. Its part of JRs job.. either JR hired him or agreed with the ownership and didn't try to convince the owners that this was wrong.. at the end of the day.. JR is the GM and he brought this coach in..
As far as the OL.. there is this thing called timeliness.. its not like he had forever to fix the OL and as long as it was fixed before 2065, JR did his job.. in 2012 we had a horrible OL with an immobile aging QB.. he should have acted accordingly.. why draft projects out of college (Everyone knew Flowers wasn't ready to start for a couple of years)..
We are 8-10 games below .500 since 2012.. with a HoF QB in his prime.. at this point its been long enough that we can judge that our current record is JR's fault as much as anyone else..
Philosophically he devalues the OL and LB positions. That’s clear from his drafting record. Early on in his tenure this didn’t matter because he inherited one of the best OL’s in the league and a defense with a legitimate MLB (Pierce). Since that time he’s allowed both aspects of the team to erode due to bad drafting and FA acquisitions, and here we are. It’s time to move on.
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He has proven to be a capable GM as evidenced by the fact that he had a huge hand in two Sb winning teams within the past decade. Yes, even the 07 team who people try and dilute his credit for. Did he get dumb at an age well before anyone should be questioning a loss of faculties? Or is it the more logical explanation.....that the draft is a crap shoot prone to luck and variance and that if you do this long enough you will have some dry periods. What’s going on with Ozzie newsome in Baltimore recently? How did bill polian do at the end in Indy when the Manning injury showed us just how much number 18 was covering up for some down offseasons. A few years ago John elway is the toast of the nfl. Now what’s up?
Firing Reese would be dumb. We have someone who is still relatively young that has shown an eye for talent and displayed the ability to compose rosters that sit under confetti in February, and we aren’t far removed from it. Pulling the plug because of a down few years would just be silly
And again some of the disrespect shown for a guy (bum ass bum?) who has done so much for us is sickening. Especially given what he represents to a lot of people
It's dumb not to question a GM that has had drafted badly for 7 years, hasn't found one UDFA who can contribute since Cruz and had to be handed a check for 200 million in order to have a creditable defense. This past off-season, he had a team seriously lacking in speed on offense and added a slug tight end at a multi million dollar contract and a slug wideout with fork sticking out of his back to another multmillion dollar contract. He's a bad GM and should be gone.
Wheeler?
save me the dog whistle crap
its about results
I'd back up the armored car for Shaw. I love how he organizes and runs his team...
you want Giants pride restored? and Power football? hire Shaw
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In comment 13701277 LatHarv83 said:
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He has proven to be a capable GM as evidenced by the fact that he had a huge hand in two Sb winning teams within the past decade. Yes, even the 07 team who people try and dilute his credit for. Did he get dumb at an age well before anyone should be questioning a loss of faculties? Or is it the more logical explanation.....that the draft is a crap shoot prone to luck and variance and that if you do this long enough you will have some dry periods. What’s going on with Ozzie newsome in Baltimore recently? How did bill polian do at the end in Indy when the Manning injury showed us just how much number 18 was covering up for some down offseasons. A few years ago John elway is the toast of the nfl. Now what’s up?
Firing Reese would be dumb. We have someone who is still relatively young that has shown an eye for talent and displayed the ability to compose rosters that sit under confetti in February, and we aren’t far removed from it. Pulling the plug because of a down few years would just be silly
And again some of the disrespect shown for a guy (bum ass bum?) who has done so much for us is sickening. Especially given what he represents to a lot of people
It's dumb not to question a GM that has had drafted badly for 7 years, hasn't found one UDFA who can contribute since Cruz and had to be handed a check for 200 million in order to have a creditable defense. This past off-season, he had a team seriously lacking in speed on offense and added a slug tight end at a multi million dollar contract and a slug wideout with fork sticking out of his back to another multmillion dollar contract. He's a bad GM and should be gone.
Wheeler?
lets have Wheeler play a few games before we put him in Canton
he needs a year in an NFL weightroom and coaching, but he looks good
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Especially given what he represents to a lot of people
You really need to stop with this race nonsense. People explained WHY this has nothing to do with race a million times and you continually bring it up. Nobody should be immune to criticism and it’s rather disappointing that you seem to think that Reese should be treated with kids gloves because he’s black. We get it. Many people look up to him and it’s great that he’s been able to possible open doors for other minorities. But that should have zero influence on how people feel about the job he’s done or whether the team decides to keep him or let him go.
such a stupid arguement
save me the dog whistle crap
its about results
I'd back up the armored car for Shaw. I love how he organizes and runs his team...
you want Giants pride restored? and Power football? hire Shaw
I think highly of Shaw, too. But by all accounts, Shaw's wife loves Palo Alto. And that is a big deal...so unless the Giants move west... ; )
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How abt Giants Dan doesn’t want him fired. He has ignored the Oline and Linebacker position almost completely. I’ve never seen a GM do that before. I know tow first round picks Pugh and Flowers but both were out of desperation. Reese should be gone and Mcadoo right behind him.
It's a myth that Reese ignored the Oline. He has been drafting and signing free agents Olinemen for years. Don't confuse ineffective with ignoring. Since forever the Giants prefer to sign free agents Linebackers instead of drafting them in the top 3 rounds. Reese is a good GM and the team would be foolish to fire him.
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to coach this team, with a NEW GM
save me the dog whistle crap
its about results
I'd back up the armored car for Shaw. I love how he organizes and runs his team...
you want Giants pride restored? and Power football? hire Shaw
I think highly of Shaw, too. But by all accounts, Shaw's wife loves Palo Alto. And that is a big deal...so unless the Giants move west... ; )
I dont blame her, but if you make him an offer he cant refuse?
Imagine with working with OBJ, it would be perfect
Reese doesnt win in 2007 or 2011 with our Ernies pick of Manning
Jerry Reese is a 54 year old man. Unless he has some really earl onset Alzheimer’s I’m gonna let his track record and the fact that someone else would hire him in 5 seconds speak more loudly than some fans lack of understanding for this process. There has never been a gm
Who has ever lived that has not had a down period if he did it long enough
I would be surprised if Gettleman was not on the speed dial to replace Reese
In Gettleman’s four seasons, the Panthers were 40-23-1 and won three consecutive NFC South titles.
Bad(mediocre ) drafts. His forte was supposedly able to pick hidden gems in late rounds.
Record over 10 years, at best .500+/-.
He had his run ... time to go.
I doubt the NFL will be knocking down his door with offers.
agree Reese 2007 was his best, but what about after?
and if Tyree doesnt make that catch, do we win?
who drafted the starting front 4 in 2007?
when does Reese get judged on his results?
I agree with you that he was a great director of personnel.. when he could focus solely on drafts.. we were getting studs in later rounds.. Tuck, Jacobs, Gibril Wilson.. but I doubt JR would want to be demoted to that position so he can concentrate of just the draft and players.. GM has many responsibilities.. and as seen by his record over the past 6 years he sucks at the GM job..
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It’s true Reese has his hands on the 11 team more than the 07 team, and it’s true accorsi deserves some credit for 07 too. But as I’m sure you realize, Reese didn’t just show up in 07. He was basically running Giants drafts for 4 years before that after being elevated to director of player personnel. He was being eased into being the next GM and the only reason it did not happen sooner is because the Giants had concerns that he wasn’t ready to be the public face (deal with the media etc), and they were probably right about that as he had his missteps early on (see how he handled petitgout in the media when pressed about his release). When it came to big picture decisions like the Eli deal the organization put their heads together and made those kinds of calls, but for the most part Reese was given free reign with the drafts for a few years before 07. This has been widely reported. And of course the 07 draft itself was one of the best one year impact drafts ever for a sb winner, even though it didn’t age out as an amazing haul
Reese doesnt win in 2007 or 2011 with our Ernies pick of Manning
Basically the top 15 players on the giants 2007 team came when Ernie was the GM..
Down stretch of late for sure. It happens in that position to everyone who is afforded the opportunity to do it long enough. Some gms are better than others and of course there is something to be said for having an eye for talent. But luck and variance also plays a big role. Anyone who tells you the draft is an exact science doesn’t know what they are talking about. A good GM can have a down run. At Reese’s age I have a tough time thinking he’s done
Down stretch of late for sure. It happens in that position to everyone who is afforded the opportunity to do it long enough. Some gms are better than others and of course there is something to be said for having an eye for talent. But luck and variance also plays a big role. Anyone who tells you the draft is an exact science doesn’t know what they are talking about. A good GM can have a down run. At Reese’s age I have a tough time thinking he’s done
stop defendinf Reese
he hired ross , makes the picks and is responsible for this team
we changed everything else already sir...take the blinders off
I also don’t buy that accorsi picked his successor in Reese. They wouldn’t allow him to pick a coach but they allow him to pick a gm? I’m sure he put in a good word
We have a 54 year old man who has his hands all over two Sb winners within the past decade and people are acting like parting with him is just a no brainer. He has earned the right to at least outlive the aging qb and inept head coach and see if he can get this back on track
I also don’t buy that accorsi picked his successor in Reese. They wouldn’t allow him to pick a coach but they allow him to pick a gm? I’m sure he put in a good word
I already talked about the points you mentioned in the earlier post that JR was a great director of Personnel.. May be the new GM can hire him as the Director of Personnel.. Reese sucks as the GM and has been sucking it pretty badly for over 6 years.. time to move on..
We have a 54 year old man who has his hands all over two Sb winners within the past decade and people are acting like parting with him is just a no brainer. He has earned the right to at least outlive the aging qb and inept head coach and see if he can get this back on track
Bahaha try this in business, I had a 6 year down period, do I get to keep my job? LUTZ
I have my doubts, sight unseen, buying that you can equate any success you’ve had in whatever your industry is to Reese
We have a 54 year old man who has his hands all over two Sb winners within the past decade and people are acting like parting with him is just a no brainer. He has earned the right to at least outlive the aging qb and inept head coach and see if he can get this back on track
He's been drafting terrible for years now. Beckham alone doesn't change that.
He got to outlast the HOF head coach. He doesn't get to outlast another HC, that was named HC with him in charge. 6 years is along time, especially in sports. He's had numerous chances to fix the problems, and has failed miserably for more then a half-decade straight. He had his chances and has been given an extremely long leash. It's over.
That Jerry was very lucky is evident in how badly he misunderstood the basics of football and league trends since then.
When varied posters like reddog and (I think Fatman is down with firing Reese) agree, that speaks volumes.
Harv83 is new...what does that indicate here?
Jerry Reese's addiction for certain types in early rounds (being very circumspect and polite here) has been evident for a long while and lost us 5 years R and D.
Also how did you just pull from your behind who Reese did or didn’t identify without having any access to the room. We know he was in a position of power but apparently had nothing to do with anything positive in that time
Also how did you just pull from your behind who Reese did or didn’t identify without having any access to the room. We know he was in a position of power but apparently had nothing to do with anything positive in that time
You don’t sound new. You sound pretty knowledgeable and likely posted here before under a different handle.
With 4 - 7 teams calling the next day
Good, lets hope it's a divisional rival so he can plow their team into the ground
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if Giants fired him , Jerry Reese would instantly get another GM job in NFL .
With 4 - 7 teams calling the next day
Good, lets hope it's a divisional rival so he can plow their team into the ground
I agree , Reese has run out his string in NY
Simply juxtapose the leading assumptions inherent in last off seasons decisions and contrast those with this regular seasons realities, for one example.
But even from a point-of -emphasis argument, I think the case has made itself, at this point for a new one, and that case having made itself over ten years. It's not his thing right now ...find someone who has that different point of emphasis and skill set.
He's not at fault for players quitting on field and etc.
He has to go. The record speaks for itself. 2016 was an aberration. The norm has been, for the most part, 6-10. This year is going to be much worse. Does anyone really trust that fuck picking inside the top 5 after he’s blown 2 top 10 picks recently, in Flowers and Apple? Come on man. And for those who say he’d get a GM job immediately: you’re joking right? Zero chance another owner is handing the keys to the castle over to a GM who was the architect of a 2-14 or 3-13 team. Get real.
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In comment 13701292 cokeduplt said:
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How abt Giants Dan doesn’t want him fired. He has ignored the Oline and Linebacker position almost completely. I’ve never seen a GM do that before. I know tow first round picks Pugh and Flowers but both were out of desperation. Reese should be gone and Mcadoo right behind him.
It's a myth that Reese ignored the Oline. He has been drafting and signing free agents Olinemen for years. Don't confuse ineffective with ignoring. Since forever the Giants prefer to sign free agents Linebackers instead of drafting them in the top 3 rounds. Reese is a good GM and the team would be foolish to fire him.
He ignored the Oline this past offseason when it was a glaring weakness. To me this is inexcusable. Taking his race into condsideration as to whether he should be fired or not is beyond ridiculous.
(1) I didn't inject or alluded to race in my discussion. (2) How can you say he ignored the Oline this past off season when he drafted an OT, signed another OT as an UDFA and signed a vet O lineman in free agency?
Do you mentally view every poster as an angry white guy? JFC
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In comment 13701321 compton said:
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In comment 13701292 cokeduplt said:
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How abt Giants Dan doesn’t want him fired. He has ignored the Oline and Linebacker position almost completely. I’ve never seen a GM do that before. I know tow first round picks Pugh and Flowers but both were out of desperation. Reese should be gone and Mcadoo right behind him.
It's a myth that Reese ignored the Oline. He has been drafting and signing free agents Olinemen for years. Don't confuse ineffective with ignoring. Since forever the Giants prefer to sign free agents Linebackers instead of drafting them in the top 3 rounds. Reese is a good GM and the team would be foolish to fire him.
He ignored the Oline this past offseason when it was a glaring weakness. To me this is inexcusable. Taking his race into condsideration as to whether he should be fired or not is beyond ridiculous.
(1) I didn't inject or alluded to race in my discussion. (2) How can you say he ignored the Oline this past off season when he drafted an OT, signed another OT as an UDFA and signed a vet O lineman in free agency?
The Harv guy mentioned race or alluded to it anyway. Drafting a lineman in the 6th round and taking a flyer on a guy who wasn’t considered good and UDFA isn’t addressing a poor offensive line.
Go look at Minnesota’s roster and say Reese has been just as good. You’re delusional.
Someone needs to tell Reese you can actually find impact players after round 2.
With 4 - 7 teams calling the next day
Yes because those teams are the Browns, Niners, Bengals and other perennial basement dwellers. They can have him. A bottom-10 GM ahould be out on his ass.
He’s had YEARS to fix this mess. It’s 2017. Aside from a flyke last year, this team has not been competitive with it finally bottoming out this year.
Anyone opposed to his firing is either on the take or delusional.
Bad(mediocre ) drafts. His forte was supposedly able to pick hidden gems in late rounds.
Record over 10 years, at best .500+/-.
He had his run ... time to go.
I doubt the NFL will be knocking down his door with offers.
Right, and how many of his draft picks from 2012 through 2016 are still playing as compared to other GMs?
As far as the two SBs, let’s be honest, neither of those teams were dominating or overpowering. We had one year of that (2008). Ea h of the 2007 and 2011 teams were fundamentally flawed, but got hot at the right time and overachieved due to a HOF coach that looks like a genius even in his (befuddled) final year as compared to Macadoo.