I agree with the Flowers criticism. He mentions "ROI" but Flowers was 20 when drafted and just starting to come around , one of the better pass blocking LTs in all of football this year. ROI would include long term investment, not just short term.
Also, Apple was 20 when drafted as well. Reese has been awful in rounds 3 through 7 in most of his drafts - that is accurate. Just don't think Flowers and Apple are a good example of Reese being a bad GM.
He has proven to be a capable GM as evidenced by the fact that he had a huge hand in two Sb winning teams within the past decade. Yes, even the 07 team who people try and dilute his credit for. Did he get dumb at an age well before anyone should be questioning a loss of faculties? Or is it the more logical explanation.....that the draft is a crap shoot prone to luck and variance and that if you do this long enough you will have some dry periods. What’s going on with Ozzie newsome in Baltimore recently? How did bill polian do at the end in Indy when the Manning injury showed us just how much number 18 was covering up for some down offseasons. A few years ago John elway is the toast of the nfl. Now what’s up?
Firing Reese would be dumb. We have someone who is still relatively young that has shown an eye for talent and displayed the ability to compose rosters that sit under confetti in February, and we aren’t far removed from it. Pulling the plug because of a down few years would just be silly
And again some of the disrespect shown for a guy (bum ass bum?) who has done so much for us is sickening. Especially given what he represents to a lot of people
He has proven to be a capable GM as evidenced by the fact that he had a huge hand in two Sb winning teams within the past decade. Yes, even the 07 team who people try and dilute his credit for. Did he get dumb at an age well before anyone should be questioning a loss of faculties? Or is it the more logical explanation.....that the draft is a crap shoot prone to luck and variance and that if you do this long enough you will have some dry periods. What’s going on with Ozzie newsome in Baltimore recently? How did bill polian do at the end in Indy when the Manning injury showed us just how much number 18 was covering up for some down offseasons. A few years ago John elway is the toast of the nfl. Now what’s up?
Firing Reese would be dumb. We have someone who is still relatively young that has shown an eye for talent and displayed the ability to compose rosters that sit under confetti in February, and we aren’t far removed from it. Pulling the plug because of a down few years would just be silly
And again some of the disrespect shown for a guy (bum ass bum?) who has done so much for us is sickening. Especially given what he represents to a lot of people
It's dumb not to question a GM that has had drafted badly for 7 years, hasn't found one UDFA who can contribute since Cruz and had to be handed a check for 200 million in order to have a creditable defense. This past off-season, he had a team seriously lacking in speed on offense and added a slug tight end at a multi million dollar contract and a slug wideout with fork sticking out of his back to another multmillion dollar contract. He's a bad GM and should be gone.
He has proven to be a capable GM as evidenced by the fact that he had a huge hand in two Sb winning teams within the past decade. Yes, even the 07 team who people try and dilute his credit for. Did he get dumb at an age well before anyone should be questioning a loss of faculties? Or is it the more logical explanation.....that the draft is a crap shoot prone to luck and variance and that if you do this long enough you will have some dry periods. What’s going on with Ozzie newsome in Baltimore recently? How did bill polian do at the end in Indy when the Manning injury showed us just how much number 18 was covering up for some down offseasons. A few years ago John elway is the toast of the nfl. Now what’s up?
Firing Reese would be dumb. We have someone who is still relatively young that has shown an eye for talent and displayed the ability to compose rosters that sit under confetti in February, and we aren’t far removed from it. Pulling the plug because of a down few years would just be silly
And again some of the disrespect shown for a guy (bum ass bum?) who has done so much for us is sickening. Especially given what he represents to a lot of people
Well said. Out of Coughlin, Eli & Reese, Reese doesn’t get the credit for the Super Bowls.
At his drafts from 2010 to 2013. Four seasons worth.
They spent $200M on guys because his drafts have been so poor. He mismanaged the OL that they haven't been running succesfully for near five seasons. Before Engram, the TE situation was miserable. That is on him.
How abt Giants Dan doesn’t want him fired. He has ignored the Oline and Linebacker position almost completely. I’ve never seen a GM do that before. I know tow first round picks Pugh and Flowers but both were out of desperation. Reese should be gone and Mcadoo right behind him.
At his drafts from 2010 to 2013. Four seasons worth.
They spent $200M on guys because his drafts have been so poor. He mismanaged the OL that they haven't been running succesfully for near five seasons. Before Engram, the TE situation was miserable. That is on him.
Exactly and all of our linebackers are back up level
Reese should have been let go along with Coughlin Â
Of the two, I always felt Reese should have been the one to go. If you're hell-bent on ditching Tom, fine, but take Reese with him.
I get that Tom was old, tired, had lost the team, etc. and you want to shake things up. But that $200-million spree the second Tom was out the door really rankled.
Protecting your immobile, thirty-something QB should have always been priority number one and he consistently under-allocated.
Reese just has an enormous hard-on for D-line and secondary. Given the resources spent there, we should have the league's gold standard for both. We can't even say that. And don't get me started on the bubble gum and snot holding the rest of the roster together.
I'd argue more than anything he made a bad choice in FA with Schwartz which totally set them back.
Then the Beatty injury threw this whole OL configuration for a loop in 2015. Flowers was drafted to play RT, don't forget that. At the time they selected him, Beatty had already earned his 2nd contract from the team.
Jones, Jerry, Hart were never intended to start here. Schwartz was a bust and Beatty got hurt. Richburg has been underwhelming but I'm not sure a total bust yet.
There have been missteps and some bad luck along the OL but it hasnt been ignored. And as far as this season with the addition of Fluker, as stated above, McAdoo actually had components for a better OL than what he stubbornly put out there for 5 weeks. That's not on Reese.
Especially given what he represents to a lot of people
You really need to stop with this race nonsense. People explained WHY this has nothing to do with race a million times and you continually bring it up. Nobody should be immune to criticism and it’s rather disappointing that you seem to think that Reese should be treated with kids gloves because he’s black. We get it. Many people look up to him and it’s great that he’s been able to possible open doors for other minorities. But that should have zero influence on how people feel about the job he’s done or whether the team decides to keep him or let him go.
How abt Giants Dan doesn’t want him fired. He has ignored the Oline and Linebacker position almost completely. I’ve never seen a GM do that before. I know tow first round picks Pugh and Flowers but both were out of desperation. Reese should be gone and Mcadoo right behind him.
It's a myth that Reese ignored the Oline. He has been drafting and signing free agents Olinemen for years. Don't confuse ineffective with ignoring. Since forever the Giants prefer to sign free agents Linebackers instead of drafting them in the top 3 rounds. Reese is a good GM and the team would be foolish to fire him.
No. Flacco has wasted his prime years. The epitome of a one hit wonder...
The hypocrisy is hilarious. We all hate the other fanbases when they bash Eli. Flacco won a Super Bowl and a ton of road playoff wins.
Who mentioned Eli. If you think 198 career TDs with 128 INTs, and never a season without double digit interceptions, are "prime years" then indeed Flacco is your guy...
as soon as he walks out of here. Unimaginative coach without the knowledge of how to use his players. Hope he goes though because it is all his fault. Here in So-Flo the Dolphins would jump on him in a NY minute.
So, Dave... Reese lost his mind in the last 6 years? Â
Or do you have no understanding of how luck and variance can impact draft success? Entering this year many people felt the Giants roster was worthy of Sb consideration on paper at least. Hasn’t worked out, injuries sure haven’t helped either... nor has a coach in over his head who I am skeptical would have been Reese’s top choice
Jerry Reese is a 54 year old man. Unless he has some really earl onset Alzheimer’s I’m gonna let his track record and the fact that someone else would hire him in 5 seconds speak more loudly than some fans lack of understanding for this process. There has never been a gm
Who has ever lived that has not had a down period if he did it long enough
John Mara at Tom Coughln's "retirement" press conference: Â
Or do you have no understanding of how luck and variance can impact draft success? Entering this year many people felt the Giants roster was worthy of Sb consideration on paper at least. Hasn’t worked out, injuries sure haven’t helped either... nor has a coach in over his head who I am skeptical would have been Reese’s top choice
Jerry Reese is a 54 year old man. Unless he has some really earl onset Alzheimer’s I’m gonna let his track record and the fact that someone else would hire him in 5 seconds speak more loudly than some fans lack of understanding for this process. There has never been a gm
Who has ever lived that has not had a down period if he did it long enough
Did Tom Coughlin forget how to coach? Or we're the players not good enough?
RE: So, Dave... Reese lost his mind in the last 6 years? Â
Or do you have no understanding of how luck and variance can impact draft success? Entering this year many people felt the Giants roster was worthy of Sb consideration on paper at least. Hasn’t worked out, injuries sure haven’t helped either... nor has a coach in over his head who I am skeptical would have been Reese’s top choice
Jerry Reese is a 54 year old man. Unless he has some really earl onset Alzheimer’s I’m gonna let his track record and the fact that someone else would hire him in 5 seconds speak more loudly than some fans lack of understanding for this process. There has never been a gm
Who has ever lived that has not had a down period if he did it long enough
Bullshit. Don't blame injures, the Giants were 0-5 before the injury bug hit, before Beckham got hurt.
6 years, more then half of a decade, isn't a 'down period.' Stop with the BS excuses. He survived the firing of one coach already. He doesn't get 2.
I think there is a difference between 70 and 54. Tom Coughlin was coaching at an age where guys just aren’t in this business anymore. That’s why he will never coach again and Reese would be a gm
Again In 5 seconds
His drafting has been among the league's worst. Evaluation after evaluation has shown that. And so does the team record.
He foolishly left the Safety position under-manned in 2009, despite warnings from the position coach, leading them to sign a bunch of has-beens off the street during the season to fill the roster.
He has left some positions (LB, TE, OL) short of real talent for years on end.
So he has had to compensate by over-paying for veteran free agents, a short-term fix, as shown by what happened from last season to this season.
Look at his effing record. It stinks.
If another team would pick Reese up in about 5 seconds Â
“Despite” a “bum ass bum” GM who’s record “effing stinks”
Has got to be one of the most amazing magic tricks ever performed in the history of civilization. John Mara can probably pull white doves out of his ass too
Coughlin has the Jags going in a better direction... Â
They are having a better season for sure. That can easily change next year. It’s the nfl. Also I’m skeptical how much coughlins hands could magically transform the franchise with one offseason. I’d be more prone to credit marrone who was there before they hired Coughlin if I recall correctly. But I’m sure he has done a good job. Im not going to bash Coughlin to prop up Reese. He was an awesome coach for us. But everyone gets old. No one is ever thinking about hiring Tom Coughlin again in the capacity we knew
You think Reese should be fired, anyone can make a good case for doing that although I find going back to his drafts 4-5-6 years ago to be not that strong a case. The main reason to fire Reese is that the OL sucked especially at the beginning of the season. He didn't ignore the OL as many continue continue to say; he just didn't build a good one. Except that it looks like the OL might be turning the corner and that's with Pugh and Richburg hurt. The key here is Flowers who looks like he might be turning out ok. If the OL turns out ok, isn't the problem McAdoo and the coaches and not Reese?
Second, the Giants defense is clearly not an elite defense but is one of the better defenses in the league. Regardless of how how the players were obtained, isn't the decline of the defense more on the coaching than on the front office. To those who say he ignored the LBs, a few points. First, Goodson looked like he was on the rise until he got hurt; Kennard's played pretty well all season. They still continue to let TEs kill them but injuries arev a factor there to. But, alot of teams don't value LBs very highly and are successfull and how great were the Giants LBs during both SB runs?
Last, be aware that if you fire Reese, McAdoo has to go as well. You should not saddle a new GM with a coaching staff especially one that has question marks. More importantly though, if you fire Reese and then make a list of available GM candidates, Reese probably jumps to the top of the list at least of those who have experience. And for those who don't have experience, we just did that hiring a coach and how has that worked out?
The Giants' front office hasn't had a real housecleaning since 1979. Â
George Young essentially chose his successor, and so did Accorsi. Continuity and stability are good, to a point. Over the long haul, though, they also tend to breed cronyism and organizational sclerosis.
I happen to like Reese, and I'm as proud/surprised as anyone that Tim Mara's descendants picked a black GM. I still think he might need to go - not because of some bad drafts and poor UFA signings (OK, a lot of them), but because the team's roster-building philosophy seems to be lagging behind the League, and Reese appears slow to adapt.
The Giants have tied up massive resources at DE and CB, and they still can't get off the field on third down. Linebackers matter.
Reese deserves something of a pass on the immobile, expensive QB, because he inherited Eli Manning, for better and worse. And he did try to build a fortress around Eli by drafting Pugh, Richburg and Flowers in consecutive years; but he should have known coming into 2017 that the fortress was more of a rickety fence, even before the injuries hit. He bet that the fence would hold, while rising NFC rivals like the Vikings, Rams and Saints rebuilt their lines. He lost the bet, and it will probably cost him his job.
The some teams don't value LBs comment is old and worn-out and more of a cop-out excuse to deflect the actual facts that our franchise has no idea what it is doing to scout, draft and develop linebackers.
And lets not even try to suggest we are so tremendous at focusing in on and drafting elite DEs, WRs and CBs instead.
They are having a better season for sure. That can easily change next year. It’s the nfl. Also I’m skeptical how much coughlins hands could magically transform the franchise with one offseason. I’d be more prone to credit marrone who was there before they hired Coughlin if I recall correctly. But I’m sure he has done a good job. Im not going to bash Coughlin to prop up Reese. He was an awesome coach for us. But everyone gets old. No one is ever thinking about hiring Tom Coughlin again in the capacity we knew
Fair comments. And I hear you on the mercurial nature of the NFL.
I don't see Coughlin ever being a HC again either. But he's shown the ability, like his mentor Parcells, to be an excellent project manager at reclamation. He did it at BC, did it at the maiden voyage for Jax, then with the Jints, and now is moving in the right direction with Jax. He's done a really nice job in both the draft and free agency. That team is so young and deep that the right person in the QB seat - and that is certainly easier said than done to fill it - could make then an AFC powerhouse for many years...
Glad I am not the only one who notices the dog whistle Â
Last, be aware that if you fire Reese, McAdoo has to go as well. You should not saddle a new GM with a coaching staff especially one that has question marks. More importantly though, if you fire Reese and then make a list of available GM candidates, Reese probably jumps to the top of the list at least of those who have experience. And for those who don't have experience, we just did that hiring a coach and how has that worked out?
Also, Apple was 20 when drafted as well. Reese has been awful in rounds 3 through 7 in most of his drafts - that is accurate. Just don't think Flowers and Apple are a good example of Reese being a bad GM.
Get that bum ass bum out of this organization now!!!
I put 75% of our blame on JR and 25% on McAdoodoo!
If Flowers-Jerry-Jones-Fluker-Pugh maybe Dallas and Detroit are different ball games but apparently there was no camp competition to earn your spot.
The worst thing Reese did that past offseason was sign Brandon Marshall and that was widely praised here on BBI.
If Flowers-Jerry-Jones-Fluker-Pugh maybe Dallas and Detroit are different ball games but apparently there was no camp competition to earn your spot.
The worst thing Reese did that past offseason was sign Brandon Marshall and that was widely praised here on BBI.
LOL yeah signing a guy to a 2 year deal below market value really killed us this year and set this franchise back years to come!!!!
Firing Reese would be dumb. We have someone who is still relatively young that has shown an eye for talent and displayed the ability to compose rosters that sit under confetti in February, and we aren’t far removed from it. Pulling the plug because of a down few years would just be silly
And again some of the disrespect shown for a guy (bum ass bum?) who has done so much for us is sickening. Especially given what he represents to a lot of people
With 4 - 7 teams calling the next day
Firing Reese would be dumb. We have someone who is still relatively young that has shown an eye for talent and displayed the ability to compose rosters that sit under confetti in February, and we aren’t far removed from it. Pulling the plug because of a down few years would just be silly
And again some of the disrespect shown for a guy (bum ass bum?) who has done so much for us is sickening. Especially given what he represents to a lot of people
Firing Reese would be dumb. We have someone who is still relatively young that has shown an eye for talent and displayed the ability to compose rosters that sit under confetti in February, and we aren’t far removed from it. Pulling the plug because of a down few years would just be silly
And again some of the disrespect shown for a guy (bum ass bum?) who has done so much for us is sickening. Especially given what he represents to a lot of people
Well said. Out of Coughlin, Eli & Reese, Reese doesn’t get the credit for the Super Bowls.
They spent $200M on guys because his drafts have been so poor. He mismanaged the OL that they haven't been running succesfully for near five seasons. Before Engram, the TE situation was miserable. That is on him.
They spent $200M on guys because his drafts have been so poor. He mismanaged the OL that they haven't been running succesfully for near five seasons. Before Engram, the TE situation was miserable. That is on him.
Exactly and all of our linebackers are back up level
I get that Tom was old, tired, had lost the team, etc. and you want to shake things up. But that $200-million spree the second Tom was out the door really rankled.
Protecting your immobile, thirty-something QB should have always been priority number one and he consistently under-allocated.
Reese just has an enormous hard-on for D-line and secondary. Given the resources spent there, we should have the league's gold standard for both. We can't even say that. And don't get me started on the bubble gum and snot holding the rest of the roster together.
Then the Beatty injury threw this whole OL configuration for a loop in 2015. Flowers was drafted to play RT, don't forget that. At the time they selected him, Beatty had already earned his 2nd contract from the team.
Jones, Jerry, Hart were never intended to start here. Schwartz was a bust and Beatty got hurt. Richburg has been underwhelming but I'm not sure a total bust yet.
There have been missteps and some bad luck along the OL but it hasnt been ignored. And as far as this season with the addition of Fluker, as stated above, McAdoo actually had components for a better OL than what he stubbornly put out there for 5 weeks. That's not on Reese.
He should have been drafting and spending like a fool until he got this right. Either that or trade Eli for someone who can outrun defensive ends.
You really need to stop with this race nonsense. People explained WHY this has nothing to do with race a million times and you continually bring it up. Nobody should be immune to criticism and it’s rather disappointing that you seem to think that Reese should be treated with kids gloves because he’s black. We get it. Many people look up to him and it’s great that he’s been able to possible open doors for other minorities. But that should have zero influence on how people feel about the job he’s done or whether the team decides to keep him or let him go.
No. Flacco has wasted his prime years. The epitome of a one hit wonder...
Reese came along for the ride, a passenger. Time for a new voice.
Quote:
Haven’t the Ravens wasted Joe Flacco’s prime years?
No. Flacco has wasted his prime years. The epitome of a one hit wonder...
The hypocrisy is hilarious. We all hate the other fanbases when they bash Eli. Flacco won a Super Bowl and a ton of road playoff wins.
I’m a Reese backer because I feel he’s a good gm. I’m also immensely proud of him for what he represents. If you take issue with that then fuck off
Hilarious.
And spare us the race card BS.
Dumb shit
Dumb shit
2 SBs that were 10 and 6 seasons ago. And making the postseason once out of the past 6 seasons since.
Lets forget that, though, of course.
It's a myth that Reese ignored the Oline. He has been drafting and signing free agents Olinemen for years. Don't confuse ineffective with ignoring. Since forever the Giants prefer to sign free agents Linebackers instead of drafting them in the top 3 rounds. Reese is a good GM and the team would be foolish to fire him.
I’m a Reese backer because I feel he’s a good gm. I’m also immensely proud of him for what he represents. If you take issue with that then fuck off
Nice response. You seem like someone that we should all take seriously.
No. Flacco has wasted his prime years. The epitome of a one hit wonder...
The hypocrisy is hilarious. We all hate the other fanbases when they bash Eli. Flacco won a Super Bowl and a ton of road playoff wins.
Who mentioned Eli. If you think 198 career TDs with 128 INTs, and never a season without double digit interceptions, are "prime years" then indeed Flacco is your guy...
Jerry Reese is a 54 year old man. Unless he has some really earl onset Alzheimer’s I’m gonna let his track record and the fact that someone else would hire him in 5 seconds speak more loudly than some fans lack of understanding for this process. There has never been a gm
Who has ever lived that has not had a down period if he did it long enough
Period.
Reese came along for the ride, a passenger. Time for a new voice.
So if Reese doesn't get credit for the team prior success why is he getting blame for the team woes now?
Jerry Reese is a 54 year old man. Unless he has some really earl onset Alzheimer’s I’m gonna let his track record and the fact that someone else would hire him in 5 seconds speak more loudly than some fans lack of understanding for this process. There has never been a gm
Who has ever lived that has not had a down period if he did it long enough
Did Tom Coughlin forget how to coach? Or we're the players not good enough?
Jerry Reese is a 54 year old man. Unless he has some really earl onset Alzheimer’s I’m gonna let his track record and the fact that someone else would hire him in 5 seconds speak more loudly than some fans lack of understanding for this process. There has never been a gm
Who has ever lived that has not had a down period if he did it long enough
Bullshit. Don't blame injures, the Giants were 0-5 before the injury bug hit, before Beckham got hurt.
6 years, more then half of a decade, isn't a 'down period.' Stop with the BS excuses. He survived the firing of one coach already. He doesn't get 2.
Again In 5 seconds
He foolishly left the Safety position under-manned in 2009, despite warnings from the position coach, leading them to sign a bunch of has-beens off the street during the season to fill the roster.
He has left some positions (LB, TE, OL) short of real talent for years on end.
So he has had to compensate by over-paying for veteran free agents, a short-term fix, as shown by what happened from last season to this season.
Look at his effing record. It stinks.
Better yet maybe we can trade him for a halfway decent Linebacker since we will never find one with him at the helm...
Has got to be one of the most amazing magic tricks ever performed in the history of civilization. John Mara can probably pull white doves out of his ass too
Enough said.
So yea I’d be skeptical about making a point about Jax’s position vis a vi us right now
Second, the Giants defense is clearly not an elite defense but is one of the better defenses in the league. Regardless of how how the players were obtained, isn't the decline of the defense more on the coaching than on the front office. To those who say he ignored the LBs, a few points. First, Goodson looked like he was on the rise until he got hurt; Kennard's played pretty well all season. They still continue to let TEs kill them but injuries arev a factor there to. But, alot of teams don't value LBs very highly and are successfull and how great were the Giants LBs during both SB runs?
Last, be aware that if you fire Reese, McAdoo has to go as well. You should not saddle a new GM with a coaching staff especially one that has question marks. More importantly though, if you fire Reese and then make a list of available GM candidates, Reese probably jumps to the top of the list at least of those who have experience. And for those who don't have experience, we just did that hiring a coach and how has that worked out?
I happen to like Reese, and I'm as proud/surprised as anyone that Tim Mara's descendants picked a black GM. I still think he might need to go - not because of some bad drafts and poor UFA signings (OK, a lot of them), but because the team's roster-building philosophy seems to be lagging behind the League, and Reese appears slow to adapt.
The Giants have tied up massive resources at DE and CB, and they still can't get off the field on third down. Linebackers matter.
Reese deserves something of a pass on the immobile, expensive QB, because he inherited Eli Manning, for better and worse. And he did try to build a fortress around Eli by drafting Pugh, Richburg and Flowers in consecutive years; but he should have known coming into 2017 that the fortress was more of a rickety fence, even before the injuries hit. He bet that the fence would hold, while rising NFC rivals like the Vikings, Rams and Saints rebuilt their lines. He lost the bet, and it will probably cost him his job.
The some teams don't value LBs comment is old and worn-out and more of a cop-out excuse to deflect the actual facts that our franchise has no idea what it is doing to scout, draft and develop linebackers.
And lets not even try to suggest we are so tremendous at focusing in on and drafting elite DEs, WRs and CBs instead.
Because we aren't...
Fair comments. And I hear you on the mercurial nature of the NFL.
I don't see Coughlin ever being a HC again either. But he's shown the ability, like his mentor Parcells, to be an excellent project manager at reclamation. He did it at BC, did it at the maiden voyage for Jax, then with the Jints, and now is moving in the right direction with Jax. He's done a really nice job in both the draft and free agency. That team is so young and deep that the right person in the QB seat - and that is certainly easier said than done to fill it - could make then an AFC powerhouse for many years...
Last, be aware that if you fire Reese, McAdoo has to go as well. You should not saddle a new GM with a coaching staff especially one that has question marks. More importantly though, if you fire Reese and then make a list of available GM candidates, Reese probably jumps to the top of the list at least of those who have experience. And for those who don't have experience, we just did that hiring a coach and how has that worked out?
Bingo