Darnold stays in school, then Rosen definitely goes #1, and it would be very expensive to move up to get him. In any event, Reese and company should not be making that decision.
It would be very difficult for Darnold to go back imo. Â
Not impossible by any means, but to turn down being a top 3 pick 2 years in a row, wow. Thats a ton of guaranteed dollars he'd be risking. He could only hurt his draft status or get hurt. He's already a potential #1 pick, low upside on staying in school. That being said, he's 20 yrs old, maybe he's already affluent? I think he's coming out and he would have declared that already if he was staying.
RE: It would be very difficult for Darnold to go back imo. Â
Not impossible by any means, but to turn down being a top 3 pick 2 years in a row, wow. Thats a ton of guaranteed dollars he'd be risking. He could only hurt his draft status or get hurt. He's already a potential #1 pick, low upside on staying in school. That being said, he's 20 yrs old, maybe he's already affluent? I think he's coming out and he would have declared that already if he was staying.
I agree with your analysis. He should definitely come out. But I've repeatedly read that he is inclined to stay in school. Whether Cleveland having the first pick influences his decision is unknown.
QB is the most important position in football. You get the QB first then build around him. The Giants are rarely in position to pick high and if they are able to get their next franchise QB then they should. Look at the Browns for instance. They passed on Wentz and Deshaun Watson in order to trade down and stockpile picks. I hope the Giants come out of this draft with Darnold, Rosen, or Mayfield then draft an offensive lineman in round 2 preferably someone like Price who can play guard and center.
RE: Way too many holes to fill to even consider drafting a qb this year. Â
I disagree. It is rare to be in a position to get a blue chip QB prospect without mortgaging your future. Unless you already have a young franchise QB, you would be foolish to pass on the opportunity. QBs are too rare in the NFL today.
Watching the game last week I know many people won’t agree with me but I thought Rosen looked far superior to Darnold. In my eyes it wasn’t even close. If we can’t get him(I don’t think Cleveland will pass on him and if they do someone’s trading up) I hope we get Allen. He’s raw but will have time to sit. All the tools are there
RE: Way too many holes to fill to even consider drafting a qb this year. Â
While understand the sentiment, that's just not sound logic going into the draft.
1. Franchise QBs don't grow on trees. If one is there when you pick you take him especially when you have a 36 year old qb. This is a ten year investment.
2. Very few if any LBers go in the top ten. Chances are taking one as early as the nyg will be picking will be a reach.
3. Yes the Giants need OL, but have you seen the bust rate on OTs in recent years. The position is rapidly becoming a developmental position, and a case can be made that solving the OT position via FA is now the wiser choice.
RE: RE: Way too many holes to fill to even consider drafting a qb this year. Â
QB is the most important position in football. You get the QB first then build around him. The Giants are rarely in position to pick high and if they are able to get their next franchise QB then they should. Look at the Browns for instance. They passed on Wentz and Deshaun Watson in order to trade down and stockpile picks. I hope the Giants come out of this draft with Darnold, Rosen, or Mayfield then draft an offensive lineman in round 2 preferably someone like Price who can play guard and center.
maybe Cleveland did the right thing. they stockpiled picks, go 0-16 and have their pick of QBs in the upcoming draft.
anyway, if we pick a QB this year (which I'm in favor of) i think we'll still have a very high pick next year. we may be drafting in a good position a few years in a row. we're pretty suckity.
QB is the most important position in football. You get the QB first then build around him. The Giants are rarely in position to pick high and if they are able to get their next franchise QB then they should. Look at the Browns for instance. They passed on Wentz and Deshaun Watson in order to trade down and stockpile picks. I hope the Giants come out of this draft with Darnold, Rosen, or Mayfield then draft an offensive lineman in round 2 preferably someone like Price who can play guard and center.
maybe Cleveland did the right thing. they stockpiled picks, go 0-16 and have their pick of QBs in the upcoming draft.
anyway, if we pick a QB this year (which I'm in favor of) i think we'll still have a very high pick next year. we may be drafting in a good position a few years in a row. we're pretty suckity.
I dont think we are that far off. Not even close.
RE: Way too many holes to fill to even consider drafting a qb this year. Â
They should consider everyone but no need to take a qb if it's too expensive or they think Webb is as good. I would like them to take one if they are in top three.
This team needs lineman and a back on o in a bad way and lbs on d along with another CB and safety. They also need to draft a qb.
if they land either of them. Rosen is more ready, Darnold has a higher ceiling. Both should redshirt next year behind Eli especially if its Darnold. Perfect scenario for him.
Watching the game last week I know many people won’t agree with me but I thought Rosen looked far superior to Darnold. In my eyes it wasn’t even close. If we can’t get him(I don’t think Cleveland will pass on him and if they do someone’s trading up) I hope we get Allen. He’s raw but will have time to sit. All the tools are there
Totally agree. Allen has the highest ceiling on anyone in this draft. He has a release that is sort of reminds me of Marino...guy is legit.
Interesting post D Dawg! I am a little late to the discussion as usual but three things kind of stand out from the process.
1) The fact that in the middle of this mess of a season with chaos reigning all around, John Mara if media reports are to be believed sent out the word to find a new QB tends to suggest if one cares to actually listen is that they may see the issues at QB as one of if not the problem major problem this year.
2) The fact that Reese went all across the country to the USC-UCLA (and that Ross went out to scout Rosen earlier this month) tends to suggest that they aren't going anywhere. (Please don't shoot the messenger!) In particular, if the Giants were going to be making a change at GM at the end of the year I suspect that they would want to leave the scouting of a new QB to the new regime.
3) Lastly, the fact that the Giants are scouting Darnold and Rosen tends to indicate that they already have pretty good grades on those two guys. They also reportedly had someone at the OU-TCU game a couple of weeks back which suggests there is also a t least some interest in Mayfield, but we are not hearing about them spending any extra time on any of the other QBs like Allen. Of course they could in fact be doing so and it just hasn't been reported in the media, but the sense one gets is that they really like either/or Darnold and Rosen. And that could present a problem if they don't end up with one of the top 2 picks because in all likelihood that's where those two guys are going. The question then will be do they trade up. Time will tell.
I can’t stop thinking about Reese being out in California scouting last week myself. That cannot be a good sign for those that want him gone. I can’t believe that they would allow a guy that won’t be around to be out there doing all of the leg work and putting together all of the info. I suppose they could go the Bills route and keep him around until after the draft but that makes zero sense and it’s certainly not the Mara way. I’m petrified that we are stuck with Reese once again.
I can’t stop thinking about Reese being out in California scouting last week myself. That cannot be a good sign for those that want him gone. I can’t believe that they would allow a guy that won’t be around to be out there doing all of the leg work and putting together all of the info. I suppose they could go the Bills route and keep him around until after the draft but that makes zero sense and it’s certainly not the Mara way. I’m petrified that we are stuck with Reese once again.
I wouldn’t read too much into it. In the real world we usually can someone at the last possible moment. Let the employee do his/her daily responsibilities, then spring the news on them. I’m sure Reese is going about business as usual. Assuming he, his scouts, and FO are filing reports on a NYG server regarding draft notes and player grades, shit canning Reese shouldn’t be an issue. The new GM is likely doing the same draft stuff now anyways as a top lieutenant to one of the other 31 GM’s. Once he gets here, he’d immediately have access to all the data Reese is compiling now.
but have the third pick it isn't the end of the world. The 4ers are likely to trade the pick or take someone like Barkley because of the presence of Garoppolo. I doubt they traded a 2nd round pick to use him as a backup and then leave via free agency. Unfortunately for the Giants that #2 pick is going to be costly as the Jets and several other QB needy teams will be looking to leapfrog the Giants.
will once again make it blatantly obvious of which QB they want forcing them to trade up to get one of them.
Right. Because nobody on the planet would have a clue that Rosen and Darnold would be at the top of their list without Reese and Ross running their mouths.
I want these guys gone as much as anyone, and I realize Jay was probably being a little tongue in cheek, but when Rosen and Darnold get taken before the Giants pick, the endless bitching about Reese tipping his hand will be a combination of ridiculous, laughable and annoying.
I can’t wait for those threads, lol. 2 QBs everyone in the league wants...
RE: RE: Shock- maybe but or guys will remove all doubt Â
I want these guys gone as much as anyone, and I realize Jay was probably being a little tongue in cheek, but when Rosen and Darnold get taken before the Giants pick, the endless bitching about Reese tipping his hand will be a combination of ridiculous, laughable and annoying.
I can’t wait for those threads, lol. 2 QBs everyone in the league wants...
You're assuming Reese and Co. return. I think that's a 50/50 proposition at this point.
I completely agree but I have a bad feeling about this. I just don’t think Mara pulls the trigger on Reese. I hope I’m wrong. I’m fairly confident McAdoo will be gone but not so convinced on Reese.
Don't think either of them will be anything special, and Rosen strikes me as a future malcontent.
No reason to believe Rosen will be a malcontent other than the fact that he has opinions and is not afraid to express them. There are no examples of him complaining about either his teammates or coaches. I'm much more concerned about his history of injuries/concussions.
p.s.--The other QB prospects all strike me as a broken-play QBs who are at their best when improvising. Rosen succeeds by executing the play as it is designed. There is a maturity to his game that is far beyond what you expect from a college QB. Unlike the others who would need the (hopefully) two years on the bench behind Eli to work on their mechanics, the main advantage of having that time for Rosen would be using it to get bigger and stronger. And given that Rosen is just a 20-year old, it's much easier to project him adding some size and muscle than it is to project Darnold or Allen or Mayfield mastering their mechanics, progressions, etc.
I agree with your analysis. He should definitely come out. But I've repeatedly read that he is inclined to stay in school. Whether Cleveland having the first pick influences his decision is unknown.
Why?
QB is the most important position in football. You get the QB first then build around him. The Giants are rarely in position to pick high and if they are able to get their next franchise QB then they should. Look at the Browns for instance. They passed on Wentz and Deshaun Watson in order to trade down and stockpile picks. I hope the Giants come out of this draft with Darnold, Rosen, or Mayfield then draft an offensive lineman in round 2 preferably someone like Price who can play guard and center.
While understand the sentiment, that's just not sound logic going into the draft.
1. Franchise QBs don't grow on trees. If one is there when you pick you take him especially when you have a 36 year old qb. This is a ten year investment.
2. Very few if any LBers go in the top ten. Chances are taking one as early as the nyg will be picking will be a reach.
3. Yes the Giants need OL, but have you seen the bust rate on OTs in recent years. The position is rapidly becoming a developmental position, and a case can be made that solving the OT position via FA is now the wiser choice.
Quote:
Need olinemen and a LB before qb!
QB is the most important position in football. You get the QB first then build around him. The Giants are rarely in position to pick high and if they are able to get their next franchise QB then they should. Look at the Browns for instance. They passed on Wentz and Deshaun Watson in order to trade down and stockpile picks. I hope the Giants come out of this draft with Darnold, Rosen, or Mayfield then draft an offensive lineman in round 2 preferably someone like Price who can play guard and center.
maybe Cleveland did the right thing. they stockpiled picks, go 0-16 and have their pick of QBs in the upcoming draft.
anyway, if we pick a QB this year (which I'm in favor of) i think we'll still have a very high pick next year. we may be drafting in a good position a few years in a row. we're pretty suckity.
Roger Staubach: Pick #129, round ten
Tom Brady: Pick #199, round six
Joe Montana, pick #82, round three
Bart Starr, pick #200, round 17
JaMarcus Russell, pick #1, round one
Ryan Leaf, pick #2, round one
Todd Blackledge, pick #7, round one
Art Schlicter, pick #4, round one.
Need I go on? It matters not where you pick - it matters very much who does the picking.
Roger Staubach: Pick #129, round ten
Tom Brady: Pick #199, round six
Joe Montana, pick #82, round three
Bart Starr, pick #200, round 17
JaMarcus Russell, pick #1, round one
Ryan Leaf, pick #2, round one
Todd Blackledge, pick #7, round one
Art Schlicter, pick #4, round one.
Need I go on? It matters not where you pick - it matters very much who does the picking.
9 of the 12 playoff teams are lead by first round QBs.
Pittsburgh
Tennessee
Jacksonville
KC
Carolina
Atlanta
St. Louis
Baltimore
Philly
does not sound like Darnold is ready to declare.
Rosen sounds a bit like Rivers - brings some bite and energy.
Quote:
In comment 13703785 SterlingArcher said:
Quote:
Need olinemen and a LB before qb!
QB is the most important position in football. You get the QB first then build around him. The Giants are rarely in position to pick high and if they are able to get their next franchise QB then they should. Look at the Browns for instance. They passed on Wentz and Deshaun Watson in order to trade down and stockpile picks. I hope the Giants come out of this draft with Darnold, Rosen, or Mayfield then draft an offensive lineman in round 2 preferably someone like Price who can play guard and center.
maybe Cleveland did the right thing. they stockpiled picks, go 0-16 and have their pick of QBs in the upcoming draft.
anyway, if we pick a QB this year (which I'm in favor of) i think we'll still have a very high pick next year. we may be drafting in a good position a few years in a row. we're pretty suckity.
I dont think we are that far off. Not even close.
One of the dumbest posts I have seen
This team needs lineman and a back on o in a bad way and lbs on d along with another CB and safety. They also need to draft a qb.
Totally agree. Allen has the highest ceiling on anyone in this draft. He has a release that is sort of reminds me of Marino...guy is legit.
1) The fact that in the middle of this mess of a season with chaos reigning all around, John Mara if media reports are to be believed sent out the word to find a new QB tends to suggest if one cares to actually listen is that they may see the issues at QB as one of if not the problem major problem this year.
2) The fact that Reese went all across the country to the USC-UCLA (and that Ross went out to scout Rosen earlier this month) tends to suggest that they aren't going anywhere. (Please don't shoot the messenger!) In particular, if the Giants were going to be making a change at GM at the end of the year I suspect that they would want to leave the scouting of a new QB to the new regime.
3) Lastly, the fact that the Giants are scouting Darnold and Rosen tends to indicate that they already have pretty good grades on those two guys. They also reportedly had someone at the OU-TCU game a couple of weeks back which suggests there is also a t least some interest in Mayfield, but we are not hearing about them spending any extra time on any of the other QBs like Allen. Of course they could in fact be doing so and it just hasn't been reported in the media, but the sense one gets is that they really like either/or Darnold and Rosen. And that could present a problem if they don't end up with one of the top 2 picks because in all likelihood that's where those two guys are going. The question then will be do they trade up. Time will tell.
I wouldn’t read too much into it. In the real world we usually can someone at the last possible moment. Let the employee do his/her daily responsibilities, then spring the news on them. I’m sure Reese is going about business as usual. Assuming he, his scouts, and FO are filing reports on a NYG server regarding draft notes and player grades, shit canning Reese shouldn’t be an issue. The new GM is likely doing the same draft stuff now anyways as a top lieutenant to one of the other 31 GM’s. Once he gets here, he’d immediately have access to all the data Reese is compiling now.
Now this seems to be a certainty...
Right. Because nobody on the planet would have a clue that Rosen and Darnold would be at the top of their list without Reese and Ross running their mouths.
Quote:
Particularly Rosen
Why?
Don't think either of them will be anything special, and Rosen strikes me as a future malcontent.
I want these guys gone as much as anyone, and I realize Jay was probably being a little tongue in cheek, but when Rosen and Darnold get taken before the Giants pick, the endless bitching about Reese tipping his hand will be a combination of ridiculous, laughable and annoying.
I can’t wait for those threads, lol. 2 QBs everyone in the league wants...
Quote:
.
I want these guys gone as much as anyone, and I realize Jay was probably being a little tongue in cheek, but when Rosen and Darnold get taken before the Giants pick, the endless bitching about Reese tipping his hand will be a combination of ridiculous, laughable and annoying.
I can’t wait for those threads, lol. 2 QBs everyone in the league wants...
You're assuming Reese and Co. return. I think that's a 50/50 proposition at this point.
Quote:
In comment 13703721 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Particularly Rosen
Why?
Don't think either of them will be anything special, and Rosen strikes me as a future malcontent.
p.s.--The other QB prospects all strike me as a broken-play QBs who are at their best when improvising. Rosen succeeds by executing the play as it is designed. There is a maturity to his game that is far beyond what you expect from a college QB. Unlike the others who would need the (hopefully) two years on the bench behind Eli to work on their mechanics, the main advantage of having that time for Rosen would be using it to get bigger and stronger. And given that Rosen is just a 20-year old, it's much easier to project him adding some size and muscle than it is to project Darnold or Allen or Mayfield mastering their mechanics, progressions, etc.
Quote:
In comment 13703721 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Particularly Rosen
Why?
Don't think either of them will be anything special, and Rosen strikes me as a future malcontent.
Would you take QB in the second round and have whoever that is compete with Webb?