At this point, I'm beyond rooting for losses or wins. The season is gone, and it's on to next year. So I'm spending my time focusing on guys who could help answer some questions for us going into 2018 and who can be counted on. With all the injuries and the team filled with street free agents, there isn't much to look at that brings hope. However, one guy who has been here a couple of years but seems to be getting better and better is Brett Jones.
We all know that this guy was pretty much the best offensive lineman in the CFL and has been on the bench mostly his first couple of years. He looked good in his spot chances last year before he got hurt.
When you look at him, he has a very strange build for an offensive lineman, very squatty/stocky. But we have seen Richburg get progressively worse the past few seasons. Injuries play a factor, but the Richburg we saw as a rookie is better than the version we saw before concussions ended his year.
That leaves us with Jones. I'm not an OL expert, I don't know the PFF ratings, but from the eye test and watching the game, what you notice about Jones is what you don't hear about him. You don't hear the holding penalties. You don't see the pocket collapsing up the middle on Eli. And we have actually seen running lanes in the middle (Fluker a big help as well) where before guys were barging into the backfield almost at the handoff. I'm not saying Jones is Bart Oates or Shaun O'Hara, but the Giants just might have found something in this guy. If he continues to play well, I'd like Richburg walk and give the full time center job to Jones next year. I'm curious if other BBI'ers, more schooled in offensive line play, see the same thing.
Best thing about him is he will fight you...every play, every down.
This is looking like an all OL draft suggestion year again.
I do like Jones and think they can get through next season with him. But I'd like to see someone else here (either a draft pick or a modest free agent acquisition) to either push him or supplant him if the other guy wins out.
Brett is feisty and gives it everything he has but his technique will have to improve massively for him to be a starter. Is he a valuable backup...yes, he is...but I do not believe he is a starter.
That being said, he is still better than Richburg.
That might be true. Its hard to say though. "Healthy Richburg" sounds like an oxymoron at this point.
The idea is to add one or two first priority level investments as starters, use a new staff to review both any free agents and the roster to find pieces and totally revamp scheme and method and practice.
Ate a pile of shit for that sentiment.
With Richburg, he doesn't seem to have the oomph. Prefer Jones given a choice of the two.
The Giants need to approach this off-season as if they need to replace five starters along the OL.
Be that one piece flowers (but what position at) , fluker (G) or Pugh (T Pugh not G Pugh) just as finding 5 new is hard to do.
Jones...maybe better with four new better linemates. How nutz would that be?
I'm disappointed in Richburg, who seemed to be on his way to being very good and sort of fizzled. Maybe injuries, maybe something else, I dunno.
I tend to look at roster decisions from a dollars and sense point of view. Both Richburg and Jones are free agents after the season. I'm guessing that Richburg will probably cost about 8 million or $9 million per year for 5 years. I'm assuming Jones will be about half that price.
In comparison, the top 5 centers are Linder, Frederick, Mack, Britt, and Pouncey. They're all making at least $9 million per year, with Linder coming in at almost $10.5 million. You'd have to assume Richburg wants to get close to that number.
Considering all that, I think I'd take Jones. There is a misconception that he may not have the size, but he's only 2 inches shorter than Richburg, and about 15-20 pounds heavier. That extra weight may even help him anchor a bit better, and his height helps him with leverage, getting under bigger nose guards.
As far as age, Jones is 20 days younger than Richburg, and hasn't been as injury prone.
Richburg and Pugh are very similar situations: they're both very nice young men and team guys, but they are going to want to be among the highest paid at their position in the league. And I just don't know if they're worth it, especially considering they both have struggled to stay on the field. And even when they're healthy, the offense of line wasn't exactly a strength.
Is either one of them top five at their position in the league? I don't think so. But they are going to want top 5 money.
I know that is different from what a lot of knowledgeable folks here think, but I really don’t think he is getting big money. Could be wrong. I’ll guess we will just have to wait and see
I know that is different from what a lot of knowledgeable folks here think, but I really don’t think he is getting big money. Could be wrong. I’ll guess we will just have to wait and see
I disagree. He gets 5/40...5 games or 40 plays before he is injured.
Price in round 2 sounds like a good investment
The Giants need to approach this off-season as if they need to replace five starters along the OL.
That's what I saw too. All the good vibes about Wheeler vanished last night, and Flowers really struggled.
Still think Flowers needs to go to RT, draft a guard in the top 40, and sign a free agent who can step in and play a competent LT.
Wheeler hits the weight room in the offseason, and competes for a job on the line.
I think Brent Jones and resigning Fluker are keepers, if not starters.
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Along with Flowers and Wheeler.
The Giants need to approach this off-season as if they need to replace five starters along the OL.
That's what I saw too. All the good vibes about Wheeler vanished last night, and Flowers really struggled.
Still think Flowers needs to go to RT, draft a guard in the top 40, and sign a free agent who can step in and play a competent LT.
Wheeler hits the weight room in the offseason, and competes for a job on the line.
I think Brent Jones and resigning Fluker are keepers, if not starters.
My point about Jones and Fluker....you can't replace all five. Just seems like too much in one season.
But two of the five spots must be significant upgrades.
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Along with Flowers and Wheeler.
The Giants need to approach this off-season as if they need to replace five starters along the OL.
That's what I saw too. All the good vibes about Wheeler vanished last night, and Flowers really struggled.
Still think Flowers needs to go to RT, draft a guard in the top 40, and sign a free agent who can step in and play a competent LT.
Wheeler hits the weight room in the offseason, and competes for a job on the line.
I think Brent Jones and resigning Fluker are keepers, if not starters.
If they’re going to spend in FA along the OL I’d rather target quality, and the only potential quality is at Center. I’d sign one of the top 3 if available and let Jones walk. If he’ll sign on the cheap as a backup, fine.
Flowers can’t play in space. Last night I saw DE’s line up super wide and put him on an island. His feet aren’t good enough to neutralize speed or angles off the edge. I think he would be better served at Guard.
The Giants need to hit on at least two OL in the upcoming draft. Doesn’t matter where or when, but if they’re going to turn this around anytime soon they need start finding home grown talent along the OL.
I’d be fine with that. He’s solid depth but I wouldn’t build an OL around him.
IMV, Richburg is fine, aside from the health issues. (I know: “Aside from that one bad moment, Mrs. Lincoln, did you enjoy the play?”) Put a healthy Richburg next to prime Snee/Seubert, and he will do everything O’Hara did. So, trying to retain him for one or two years makes some sense, while the team addresses its multitude of other issues. If another team wants to pay him serious $$$, wish him well and take the 2019 comp pick.
The first big decision involves the Year 5 option on Flowers. I would exercise it. The big risk involves injury, and for all his flaws, the kid has been very durable. I think he can be a starter somewhere on a good line, though maybe not at left tackle.
From what we’ve seen so far, Jones is Just a Guy. I like him better as the fourth interior lineman than as a starter; but if he continues to improve, he can be “good enough” - like Richburg.
Wheeler figured to have trouble in his second start. There was tape of him, so the Redskins were probably able to find his weaknesses - plus, he’s still physically underdeveloped. Now it’s up to Solari &Co. to self-scout and coach him up on the mistakes he made in Washington. (Yeah, right.)
Richburg called out the other linemen, then stunk before he got hurt. Need a REAL good big dude at center.