I think they mean regular season losses and Marino's 103 are including playoff losses.
Regardless it is a dumb stat that doesn't mean anything unless you value players that jumped around to play for a variety of teams more than you do a player who chose to stay with one team.
All this proves is Eli's longevity as an NFL QB and tenure with one team.
He's been an absolute rock and kept a consistent steady presence at the position. He's had two unparalleled play off runs where he showed more grit than almost any QB of his generation.
He's also overseen a lot of mediocrity, and some serious stretches of losing.
He's the smartest guy in the huddle, disects defenses and gets guys in the right position most of the time. But still has it in him to try and shovel the ball understand to noone.
I love how tough he is. I love not being the Browns, or Dolphins, or Skins and having a rotating clown show at QB.
I learned football is a lot more than the guy behind the center when my favorite childhood player went down and his backup won a Super Bowl. I don't give Manning all the credit for the 2 rings. But I do give him a lot of it.
Short story I'll be sad to see him hang them up, but not worried about the team.
Just underlines how this FO has completely shit the bed Â
In that Eli will flirt with a 500 record as a qb and that is a major knock against his hof case. Otherwise no.
The fact that he is the only QB to lose 100 regular season games for one franchise, and kind of the point of the OP is what is meaningless.
As far as being near or around .500 and making the Hall of Fame. HOF QB's Fouts .503, Jurgensen .487, Moon .493 Namath .500, Blanda .519, Tarkenton .533 who are all either equal or less than Eli .532. Then throw in Eli's two SB MVP's and he easily has the credentials to make it in.
There are examples of it in the past. But these players made it in in spite of their record. And I'd argue many on that list would have a hard time getting in today.
so that kind of team will take what, two offseasons to produce? for what, MAYBE one last hurrah? Doubtful it happens.
Giants cannot plan like this. time to set up the next decade if possible.
Not to mention, the same type of team that you'd need to build to help Eli make one more run is, in a lot of ways, the way you'd build a roster for a young/rookie QB. Except that the young QB wouldn't be getting paid like a franchise QB just yet.
I don't often agree with Terps, but one of the things he has often mentioned and is absolutely correct about is that a team has a significant cap advantage when they strike gold on a young QB on his rookie contract. That allows those teams to build a really solid roster around that QB because the cap savings are so vast. But it's not as easy with an aging QB who is still getting paid like a franchise QB.
That said, striking gold on a young QB isn't easy, otherwise everyone would do it the way many teams do with RBs. But when you have a QB who is nearing the end of his career, your hand is kind of forced either way.
and the Giants are now one of the worst team's in the NFL. Eli has a part in that. As they say, if we can go 2-14 with you, we sure as hell can go 2 - 14 without you.
I am not certain that any new QB would bring more than Eli, they do bring hope if it is top prospect and I know Eli will not be QB forever. He may be gone next season.
What I do wonder is why many seem to be excited that this era is ending. Many wanted the last coach gone too, how did that work out?
Eli's incredible durability has prevented us from ever seeing what the Giants would be like without him. I think he was a net positive over the oast twelve years, many seem to argue that Eli has been average. Being a starting QB in this city and carrying the mail for over ten years is not average.
We should be so lucky to get someone close to that next. More likely the Giants will shuffle QB'S constantly searching for the guy. Same at HC. I think it was a net gain to have such quality at HC and QB for so long. Many seem to think those two sports is what has kept this team from winning again since 2013.
Now it has all collapsed. I would love to see Eli get a shot on another team. It may or may not happen, but I would love to see it.
The Giants will hopefully get a top pick and look to the future, I just think that based on watching the NFL that once Eli is gone it will be worse before it hopefully gets better.
The Jets have never had a franchise QB in my lifetime.
RE: Just underlines how this FO has completely shit the bed Â
from Eli's prime to now. I will always think of the years following 2011 as wasted opportunity.
I view it this way as well. This team still has needs on o line. Still has not replaced Jacobs or Bradshaw. Still is a league joke at LB. Never provided consistency and talent at TE. Until last year's spending bonanza never built a consistent D from 2012 on. This D also is only good when it decides to try.
I will never be convinced that there were not many front office people in the NFL who could have built a consistent competitive roster with Eli at QB.
It seems fair and objective. A very good but not great QB seems exactly right to me, adding that in his two SB runs he elevated his game. Thus we can say he had moments of greatness. I simply do not get the people on this site who get angry and abusive when others say Eli is other than great as if this were a personal insult.
It's worth recalling that much the same todo could be heard over Phil Simms and, too, that he went 22 for 25 in the SB.
Whoever comes next may not be as good as Eli, but at least conceivably could be better. We've had, in the years of my fandom, Conerly, Tittle, Tarkenton, Simms, Eli, all of whom did good things and were fun to root for. I should throw in Hostetler. And, on the other hand, we've had Brown, Graham, and some others who kinda took the fun out of it. It is not unreasonable to hope that whoever comes next will be great or at least good or somewhere in between, nor to believe that the time for this transition is at hand.
Why do you keep saying that people are excited to see Eli leave? Where the hell is that coming from? There is post after post after post of people explaining WHY they think it’s time to move on. Yet people defending Eli continuously put words into people’s mouths and throw around false narratives. Why can’t anyone be appreciative of what Eli has accomplished and love Eli for what he’s done, while still realizing that he’s not the same player anymore? I have not seen one single person “excited” to see Eli gone. The Eli defenders ALWAYS resort to untrue myths. Anyone that criticizes Eli EVER:
1. Is an Eli hater
2. Blames Eli for ALL of the teams problems
3. Thinks no other teams QBs miss throws
4. Thinks Eli’s replacement will be the next Tom Brady
All of these myths get thrown around on every thread discussing Eli. None of it is remotely true but those are the accusations that get tossed around to defend him. Criticize Eli? You hate obviously hate him and think he’s the only one responsible for everything. It’s just a weird angle to take constantly.
"He's no where near Peyton, Brady or Rodgers or Brees".
I'm not convinced that Brees is in the Peyton or Brady or Rodgers GOAT category. Brees plays in a dome in good weather for almost every game of the season and while I think Brees is a terrific quarterback I don't think he's in the category of GOAT. Close - but I think playing in NO is really different from playing in NY.
The other three? Of course they're GOATs.
But remember that Rodgers isn't playing now and he's missed other long stretches with injuries. Rodgers is the most talented QB I've watched in 4 decades of being an NFL fan. But he does get hurt because of the way he plays the game. Better than Eli when he's on the field? Yup, most talented QB I've ever seen. Not as durable as Eli.
Brady is a tremendous QB - he's an incredible worker and makes great reads and throws and he's all time superstar stud GOAT QB. No two ways about it. But playing for Belicheck made a difference in his career. You think Tom Brady is the GOAT playing for the Jets with Sexy Rexy? I do not. (BTW, Does anyone ever wonder how many Super Bowls Eli would have won if he played for Belichick up in New England?)
Peyton's obviously an all time great but remember he played for his entire career with people whispering that he couldn't always deliver in the big game. Absurd? Eh, I'm not so sure... Still, one of the GOATs - no doubt about it.
Anyway, saying Eli isn't as good as 4 of the best QBs in the past two decades is kind of a funny way to knock the guy.
and Bad OL the vast majority of the last 7 seasons( HALF of Eli's career), questionable coaching decisions more than offset his career-wide brain-fart decisions and bad throws into coverage(the price you pay for a gunslinger often without bullets).
Lots of blame to go around on 100Ls and counting.
The 'suits', 1 in particular, own much of that blame.
I think we all appreciate what Eli has done for the franchise and its Â
fans. He's a class act, and it's been a pleasure rooting for him.
But.
We really don't have to feel bad for him. I think most of us have overrated him to a great extent. He can get hot and carry a team, but he has never been consistent or great.
It's okay to be appreciative of his past performances and still be cognizant of the fact that we desperately need a new stud QB...
"He's no where near Peyton, Brady or Rodgers or Brees".
I'm not convinced that Brees is in the Peyton or Brady or Rodgers GOAT category. Brees plays in a dome in good weather for almost every game of the season and while I think Brees is a terrific quarterback I don't think he's in the category of GOAT. Close - but I think playing in NO is really different from playing in NY.
The other three? Of course they're GOATs.
But remember that Rodgers isn't playing now and he's missed other long stretches with injuries. Rodgers is the most talented QB I've watched in 4 decades of being an NFL fan. But he does get hurt because of the way he plays the game. Better than Eli when he's on the field? Yup, most talented QB I've ever seen. Not as durable as Eli.
Brady is a tremendous QB - he's an incredible worker and makes great reads and throws and he's all time superstar stud GOAT QB. No two ways about it. But playing for Belicheck made a difference in his career. You think Tom Brady is the GOAT playing for the Jets with Sexy Rexy? I do not. (BTW, Does anyone ever wonder how many Super Bowls Eli would have won if he played for Belichick up in New England?)
Peyton's obviously an all time great but remember he played for his entire career with people whispering that he couldn't always deliver in the big game. Absurd? Eh, I'm not so sure... Still, one of the GOATs - no doubt about it.
Anyway, saying Eli isn't as good as 4 of the best QBs in the past two decades is kind of a funny way to knock the guy.
posts. Particularly those claiming he is am average QB etc.
Many seem to also post opinions which put a longer term blame on Manning for this team losing for so long.
I disagree with both sentiments.
How can a team be so utterly mediocre for such a long time without putting any of the blame on the QB? I haven’t seen one single person put ALL of the blame on him, but putting SOME of the blame on him seems reasonable, no? Everyone that has been part of this mess deserves blame. And yes, that includes the QB. Some people want to blame everything BUT Eli, which is ridiculous. Is he the biggest problem? Hell no, of course not. But it’s ok to admit that he’s been part of the problem.
he is one of the best to ever play for the Giants, and likely the best QB choice at the time.
Just looking at the numbers doesn't really tell the story. (It's comical how often the limitations of quantitative analysis are ignored, and more so, how often it's misapplied .)
Let's not ignore the obvious, Eli's had a little help with both the wins and losses, and for quite a long time now, the Giants have been fielding a pretty sh!tty team. Think that factors into his win and loss record?
But I think some of Eli's greatest virtues go ignored altogether. The NY sports media marketplace eats athletes alive. They're always stirring the pot, and if there's nothing special going on, they make it up! Put a volatile, less focused QB in blue, and wait to see what happens. Eli's steady, calm, extremely well-prepared approach to each and every game, even when he's running for his life, is something that has steadied this team through successful seasons when the other personnel might have been questionable.
Have there been better QB's? Sure! But I'm not sure there could have been a better one for the Giants during the time he's been here.
RE: RE: RE: Did Marino play elsewhere than Miami Â
The Throwin' Samoan (who was the first QB selected at #3 ahead of Simms in 1979).
There's certainly no guarantee a top pick turns into a Simms or Manning versus a Jack Thompson. Top 10 picks are rare and you have to hit the home runs when you have them (... Apple@10; Weathers@9)
RE: Let's just hope the Giants next QB selection is Simms like and not Â
The Throwin' Samoan (who was the first QB selected at #3 ahead of Simms in 1979).
There's certainly no guarantee a top pick turns into a Simms or Manning versus a Jack Thompson. Top 10 picks are rare and you have to hit the home runs when you have them (... Apple@10; Weathers@9)
I think is one of the top QB's in giants history.
With the exception of three seasons he has not had a top ten defense around him.
If the steelers drafted him he would have al least three maybe four rings,
When you have no one that scares you on offense with a suspect OL I do not think Ben, Rivers, and many others could handle the big apple media and win.
TC was fading and hamstrung at the same time. Last season we had a shot at advancing in the playoffs, Eli showed up many KEY players did not.
The after effects of being close and not rebounding is common. When you have TE running WR routes, sign people off the street, and are forced a pass, adding in your human and even Joe Montana missed throws ... it happens.
We seem to have more jet fans here than Giant fans on this boards these days.
I recall rooting for a successful quick kick.
Ask the browns fans, or Vikings fans who came close and never won a Super Bowl.
Know many eagles fans and they would enjoy this season of ours if only they could have won ONE SB. They look on track to do so this season.
RE: RE: Let's just hope the Giants next QB selection is Simms like and not Â
The Throwin' Samoan (who was the first QB selected at #3 ahead of Simms in 1979).
There's certainly no guarantee a top pick turns into a Simms or Manning versus a Jack Thompson. Top 10 picks are rare and you have to hit the home runs when you have them (... Apple@10; Weathers@9)
In almost every ranking of QBs throughout Eli’s career, he usually fell in the 8-12 range. I always thought that was prejudice because of the San Diego thing.
But really there is not a vast conspiracy against Eli. He is a good, solid QB who comes big in the postseason. His main positive is durability but he has never been in a class with Brady Rogers Brees Peyton. He is also not as good as Big Ben and some others but he is more durable than they are.
So I think he is relatively the same. Maybe closer to 15 now whereas earlier he was in the 6-10 range. We overrated him earlier and we might be underrating him now.
So he's a level below some of the best to ever play in about 100 years of
The leagues existence. Um ok. And durability is vastly underrated
Or whether we overrated him or underrated him, what I don't get or like are the constant comaints about dumpoffs. Th is isn't what I'm seeing. I'm seeing an offense that consists primarily of very short passes. Their offense is called like the coaching staff has no balls. What's the point of running 11 personnel and then running everyone in a 3 yard pattern.
Overrated LOL..... When Phil Simms left many Giants fans were critical of him and thought we could have won more with a real QB.
It took a 11 years and a lot of mediocrity Before Eli was drafted. He is not Rogers or Brady and my feeling about Brees he is a system QB that is Great in a dome. But like him or not he was a Franchise QB and won 2 Super Bowls....should have won another if not for that Sap Burress.
110-105. It’s conceivable that if he starts all of 2018, he’ll be a sub .500 QB after 15 seasons. What an epic failure on the part of the organization from top to bottom.
RE: If they lose, out Eli finishes his 14th season Â
110-105. It’s conceivable that if he starts all of 2018, he’ll be a sub .500 QB after 15 seasons. What an epic failure on the part of the organization from top to bottom.
I'm definitely for a reset with the franchise. Get the next great Giants QB.
But, if Saquon Barkley can be had, and OBJ comes back and is the same OBJ, then this team can still make a run with Eli.
We've all seen how important Ezekiel Elliott is to the Cowboys. That's what Barkley can be for the Giants. But we have to have a strong defense, and a line that isn't a liability. And I actually like how Flowers has rebounded and Wheeler's development, and yes I realize they didn't have stellar games against the Redskins. But if the Giants can get two really good OG's, and they can pound the rock, and take some shots, then Eli can make 1 more run.
But that's not likely going to happen in McAdoo's system. To make it work, Eli might have to give some money back to keep a powerhouse defense behind him and to add a piece on the OL.
Numbers that say: its great to win 2 SBs in 5 years, but this team has been mediocre at best, which in the NFL makes you a bad team. Rivers has a higher winning percentage than Eli, and his record is a reflection of that franchise. Eli was responsible for for the 2 Super Bowls he has won, and without him, and with a great QB like Rivers instead of him, the Giants would have the same record overall, only 0 Super Bowls in that time. Good for the Giants they picked the guy who got them 2 rings. Shame on the Giants for fucking up so many years and wasting this guy's obvious talent. Without the 2 Super Bowls, the Giants are basically the SD Chargers without Ladanian Tomlinson and Antonio Gates.
It seems the majority of people drawn to the Eli threads are in one of two irrational camps. The first being "Eli sucks and has always been a marginal QB." The second is "Eli is a first ballot HoF, top 5 all time, should play 10 more years." There are no shades of gray with any of these people.
Eli has been a very good QB for the Giants. At times he has flashed excellence and he has flashed mediocrity. In a league with maybe 5-10 very good QBs at any one time, his longevity at that level is excellent. He will be an all time great QB for the Giants, and only idiots will be glad when he is gone. But every player's day comes, and Eli's is too. Acknowledging that doesn't mean you hate him, or don't appreciate what he has accomplished.
We can argue the shades of gray of Eli's career, but honestly the people drawn to these threads -on both sides- are not the ones to do it.
That makes no sense glover. Rivers very well could have won here if trading places. Impossible to say. Are you giving all the credit to elin for Giants two sb?
Mike - this is the primary problem with this debate. I believe like you there is a grey where we can understand he was very good but his time is here. But I do think the pro Eli crowd is less nuanced than the realists.
The realists being a sizable portion of the board that appreciates Eli but think he's mostly done. There are those who don't like him period but it's a small portion.
Most of the hysteria seems to come from the blind Eli loyalists. They immediately call the critics dumb or clueless.
now the Giants front office has not figured out a way to protect a franchise quarterback or establish a run game to give the QB an advantage in the passing game. There have been carousels at the two best safety valves for a QB-- TE and RB.
The Giants front office should be ashamed.
RE: RE: If they lose, out Eli finishes his 14th season Â
110-105. It’s conceivable that if he starts all of 2018, he’ll be a sub .500 QB after 15 seasons. What an epic failure on the part of the organization from top to bottom.
Ravens haven’t been much better for Flacco.
Flacco's record is 88-60. I'm unclear on what your argument is?
RE: If they lose, out Eli finishes his 14th season Â
110-105. It’s conceivable that if he starts all of 2018, he’ll be a sub .500 QB after 15 seasons. What an epic failure on the part of the organization from top to bottom.
Brees has been great but he is a different animal when outdoors and in less than ideal weather conditions.
RE: RE: RE: If they lose, out Eli finishes his 14th season Â
110-105. It’s conceivable that if he starts all of 2018, he’ll be a sub .500 QB after 15 seasons. What an epic failure on the part of the organization from top to bottom.
Ravens haven’t been much better for Flacco.
Flacco's record is 88-60. I'm unclear on what your argument is?
Many of those wins outside of 2012 were in spite of Flacco or he was game-managing them.
I think they mean regular season losses and Marino's 103 are including playoff losses.
Regardless it is a dumb stat that doesn't mean anything unless you value players that jumped around to play for a variety of teams more than you do a player who chose to stay with one team.
All this proves is Eli's longevity as an NFL QB and tenure with one team.
He's been an absolute rock and kept a consistent steady presence at the position. He's had two unparalleled play off runs where he showed more grit than almost any QB of his generation.
He's also overseen a lot of mediocrity, and some serious stretches of losing.
He's the smartest guy in the huddle, disects defenses and gets guys in the right position most of the time. But still has it in him to try and shovel the ball understand to noone.
I love how tough he is. I love not being the Browns, or Dolphins, or Skins and having a rotating clown show at QB.
I learned football is a lot more than the guy behind the center when my favorite childhood player went down and his backup won a Super Bowl. I don't give Manning all the credit for the 2 rings. But I do give him a lot of it.
Short story I'll be sad to see him hang them up, but not worried about the team.
The fact that he is the only QB to lose 100 regular season games for one franchise, and kind of the point of the OP is what is meaningless.
As far as being near or around .500 and making the Hall of Fame. HOF QB's Fouts .503, Jurgensen .487, Moon .493 Namath .500, Blanda .519, Tarkenton .533 who are all either equal or less than Eli .532. Then throw in Eli's two SB MVP's and he easily has the credentials to make it in.
Giants cannot plan like this. time to set up the next decade if possible.
Not to mention, the same type of team that you'd need to build to help Eli make one more run is, in a lot of ways, the way you'd build a roster for a young/rookie QB. Except that the young QB wouldn't be getting paid like a franchise QB just yet.
I don't often agree with Terps, but one of the things he has often mentioned and is absolutely correct about is that a team has a significant cap advantage when they strike gold on a young QB on his rookie contract. That allows those teams to build a really solid roster around that QB because the cap savings are so vast. But it's not as easy with an aging QB who is still getting paid like a franchise QB.
That said, striking gold on a young QB isn't easy, otherwise everyone would do it the way many teams do with RBs. But when you have a QB who is nearing the end of his career, your hand is kind of forced either way.
And maybe so are teams with aging QBs with a lot of mileage on their tires? Is that so impossible to even consider?
I am not certain that any new QB would bring more than Eli, they do bring hope if it is top prospect and I know Eli will not be QB forever. He may be gone next season.
What I do wonder is why many seem to be excited that this era is ending. Many wanted the last coach gone too, how did that work out?
Eli's incredible durability has prevented us from ever seeing what the Giants would be like without him. I think he was a net positive over the oast twelve years, many seem to argue that Eli has been average. Being a starting QB in this city and carrying the mail for over ten years is not average.
We should be so lucky to get someone close to that next. More likely the Giants will shuffle QB'S constantly searching for the guy. Same at HC. I think it was a net gain to have such quality at HC and QB for so long. Many seem to think those two sports is what has kept this team from winning again since 2013.
Now it has all collapsed. I would love to see Eli get a shot on another team. It may or may not happen, but I would love to see it.
The Giants will hopefully get a top pick and look to the future, I just think that based on watching the NFL that once Eli is gone it will be worse before it hopefully gets better.
The Jets have never had a franchise QB in my lifetime.
I view it this way as well. This team still has needs on o line. Still has not replaced Jacobs or Bradshaw. Still is a league joke at LB. Never provided consistency and talent at TE. Until last year's spending bonanza never built a consistent D from 2012 on. This D also is only good when it decides to try.
I will never be convinced that there were not many front office people in the NFL who could have built a consistent competitive roster with Eli at QB.
It's worth recalling that much the same todo could be heard over Phil Simms and, too, that he went 22 for 25 in the SB.
Whoever comes next may not be as good as Eli, but at least conceivably could be better. We've had, in the years of my fandom, Conerly, Tittle, Tarkenton, Simms, Eli, all of whom did good things and were fun to root for. I should throw in Hostetler. And, on the other hand, we've had Brown, Graham, and some others who kinda took the fun out of it. It is not unreasonable to hope that whoever comes next will be great or at least good or somewhere in between, nor to believe that the time for this transition is at hand.
1. Is an Eli hater
2. Blames Eli for ALL of the teams problems
3. Thinks no other teams QBs miss throws
4. Thinks Eli’s replacement will be the next Tom Brady
All of these myths get thrown around on every thread discussing Eli. None of it is remotely true but those are the accusations that get tossed around to defend him. Criticize Eli? You hate obviously hate him and think he’s the only one responsible for everything. It’s just a weird angle to take constantly.
Many seem to also post opinions which put a longer term blame on Manning for this team losing for so long.
I disagree with both sentiments.
I'm not convinced that Brees is in the Peyton or Brady or Rodgers GOAT category. Brees plays in a dome in good weather for almost every game of the season and while I think Brees is a terrific quarterback I don't think he's in the category of GOAT. Close - but I think playing in NO is really different from playing in NY.
The other three? Of course they're GOATs.
But remember that Rodgers isn't playing now and he's missed other long stretches with injuries. Rodgers is the most talented QB I've watched in 4 decades of being an NFL fan. But he does get hurt because of the way he plays the game. Better than Eli when he's on the field? Yup, most talented QB I've ever seen. Not as durable as Eli.
Brady is a tremendous QB - he's an incredible worker and makes great reads and throws and he's all time superstar stud GOAT QB. No two ways about it. But playing for Belicheck made a difference in his career. You think Tom Brady is the GOAT playing for the Jets with Sexy Rexy? I do not. (BTW, Does anyone ever wonder how many Super Bowls Eli would have won if he played for Belichick up in New England?)
Peyton's obviously an all time great but remember he played for his entire career with people whispering that he couldn't always deliver in the big game. Absurd? Eh, I'm not so sure... Still, one of the GOATs - no doubt about it.
Anyway, saying Eli isn't as good as 4 of the best QBs in the past two decades is kind of a funny way to knock the guy.
Lots of blame to go around on 100Ls and counting.
The 'suits', 1 in particular, own much of that blame.
But.
We really don't have to feel bad for him. I think most of us have overrated him to a great extent. He can get hot and carry a team, but he has never been consistent or great.
It's okay to be appreciative of his past performances and still be cognizant of the fact that we desperately need a new stud QB...
And he never won a SB.
I'm not convinced that Brees is in the Peyton or Brady or Rodgers GOAT category. Brees plays in a dome in good weather for almost every game of the season and while I think Brees is a terrific quarterback I don't think he's in the category of GOAT. Close - but I think playing in NO is really different from playing in NY.
The other three? Of course they're GOATs.
But remember that Rodgers isn't playing now and he's missed other long stretches with injuries. Rodgers is the most talented QB I've watched in 4 decades of being an NFL fan. But he does get hurt because of the way he plays the game. Better than Eli when he's on the field? Yup, most talented QB I've ever seen. Not as durable as Eli.
Brady is a tremendous QB - he's an incredible worker and makes great reads and throws and he's all time superstar stud GOAT QB. No two ways about it. But playing for Belicheck made a difference in his career. You think Tom Brady is the GOAT playing for the Jets with Sexy Rexy? I do not. (BTW, Does anyone ever wonder how many Super Bowls Eli would have won if he played for Belichick up in New England?)
Peyton's obviously an all time great but remember he played for his entire career with people whispering that he couldn't always deliver in the big game. Absurd? Eh, I'm not so sure... Still, one of the GOATs - no doubt about it.
Anyway, saying Eli isn't as good as 4 of the best QBs in the past two decades is kind of a funny way to knock the guy.
Agreed
Many seem to also post opinions which put a longer term blame on Manning for this team losing for so long.
I disagree with both sentiments.
How can a team be so utterly mediocre for such a long time without putting any of the blame on the QB? I haven’t seen one single person put ALL of the blame on him, but putting SOME of the blame on him seems reasonable, no? Everyone that has been part of this mess deserves blame. And yes, that includes the QB. Some people want to blame everything BUT Eli, which is ridiculous. Is he the biggest problem? Hell no, of course not. But it’s ok to admit that he’s been part of the problem.
Quote:
He has 103 losses.
And he never won a SB.
So are you saying that Eli is/was a better QB than Marino?
Just looking at the numbers doesn't really tell the story. (It's comical how often the limitations of quantitative analysis are ignored, and more so, how often it's misapplied .)
Let's not ignore the obvious, Eli's had a little help with both the wins and losses, and for quite a long time now, the Giants have been fielding a pretty sh!tty team. Think that factors into his win and loss record?
But I think some of Eli's greatest virtues go ignored altogether. The NY sports media marketplace eats athletes alive. They're always stirring the pot, and if there's nothing special going on, they make it up! Put a volatile, less focused QB in blue, and wait to see what happens. Eli's steady, calm, extremely well-prepared approach to each and every game, even when he's running for his life, is something that has steadied this team through successful seasons when the other personnel might have been questionable.
Have there been better QB's? Sure! But I'm not sure there could have been a better one for the Giants during the time he's been here.
Quote:
In comment 13703919 SirLoinOfBeef said:
Quote:
He has 103 losses.
And he never won a SB.
So are you saying that Eli is/was a better QB than Marino?
No. Just that the data was incorrect.
No. Just that the data was incorrect.
I believe the stat was referring to regular season games. Marino had less than 100 losses when counting playoff losses.
Many seem to also post opinions which put a longer term blame on Manning for this team losing for so long.
I disagree with both sentiments.
At this stage and at this age? Yes, he's an average QB.
There's certainly no guarantee a top pick turns into a Simms or Manning versus a Jack Thompson. Top 10 picks are rare and you have to hit the home runs when you have them (... Apple@10; Weathers@9)
There's certainly no guarantee a top pick turns into a Simms or Manning versus a Jack Thompson. Top 10 picks are rare and you have to hit the home runs when you have them (... Apple@10; Weathers@9)
Ah, Weathers. Who could ever forget Weathers?
With the exception of three seasons he has not had a top ten defense around him.
If the steelers drafted him he would have al least three maybe four rings,
When you have no one that scares you on offense with a suspect OL I do not think Ben, Rivers, and many others could handle the big apple media and win.
TC was fading and hamstrung at the same time. Last season we had a shot at advancing in the playoffs, Eli showed up many KEY players did not.
The after effects of being close and not rebounding is common. When you have TE running WR routes, sign people off the street, and are forced a pass, adding in your human and even Joe Montana missed throws ... it happens.
We seem to have more jet fans here than Giant fans on this boards these days.
I recall rooting for a successful quick kick.
Ask the browns fans, or Vikings fans who came close and never won a Super Bowl.
Know many eagles fans and they would enjoy this season of ours if only they could have won ONE SB. They look on track to do so this season.
Quote:
The Throwin' Samoan (who was the first QB selected at #3 ahead of Simms in 1979).
There's certainly no guarantee a top pick turns into a Simms or Manning versus a Jack Thompson. Top 10 picks are rare and you have to hit the home runs when you have them (... Apple@10; Weathers@9)
Ah, Weathers. Who could ever forget Weathers?
omg ... that’s scary ... ah geez
Eli didn't look good last night, but we've seen play this way many times before......and I'm talking before 2010.
The thing you have to remember with Eli is, and I've always said it, you have to put good players around him. Do that...he'll get the ball to them.
Right now, he doesn't have much to work with.
But really there is not a vast conspiracy against Eli. He is a good, solid QB who comes big in the postseason. His main positive is durability but he has never been in a class with Brady Rogers Brees Peyton. He is also not as good as Big Ben and some others but he is more durable than they are.
So I think he is relatively the same. Maybe closer to 15 now whereas earlier he was in the 6-10 range. We overrated him earlier and we might be underrating him now.
So he's a level below some of the best to ever play in about 100 years of
The leagues existence. Um ok. And durability is vastly underrated
Therefore he was never really that good.
Fans are unbelievable in how limited their vision can be based on the most recent performances of the athletes they follow.
I see much more of the opposite-judgement against those who critique his current play. Defensiveness and sentimentality.
Why is pointing out he is mostly done a signal to some his body of work is under appreciated?
It took a 11 years and a lot of mediocrity Before Eli was drafted. He is not Rogers or Brady and my feeling about Brees he is a system QB that is Great in a dome. But like him or not he was a Franchise QB and won 2 Super Bowls....should have won another if not for that Sap Burress.
Ravens haven’t been much better for Flacco.
But, if Saquon Barkley can be had, and OBJ comes back and is the same OBJ, then this team can still make a run with Eli.
We've all seen how important Ezekiel Elliott is to the Cowboys. That's what Barkley can be for the Giants. But we have to have a strong defense, and a line that isn't a liability. And I actually like how Flowers has rebounded and Wheeler's development, and yes I realize they didn't have stellar games against the Redskins. But if the Giants can get two really good OG's, and they can pound the rock, and take some shots, then Eli can make 1 more run.
But that's not likely going to happen in McAdoo's system. To make it work, Eli might have to give some money back to keep a powerhouse defense behind him and to add a piece on the OL.
Eli has been a very good QB for the Giants. At times he has flashed excellence and he has flashed mediocrity. In a league with maybe 5-10 very good QBs at any one time, his longevity at that level is excellent. He will be an all time great QB for the Giants, and only idiots will be glad when he is gone. But every player's day comes, and Eli's is too. Acknowledging that doesn't mean you hate him, or don't appreciate what he has accomplished.
We can argue the shades of gray of Eli's career, but honestly the people drawn to these threads -on both sides- are not the ones to do it.
Mike - this is the primary problem with this debate. I believe like you there is a grey where we can understand he was very good but his time is here. But I do think the pro Eli crowd is less nuanced than the realists.
Most of the hysteria seems to come from the blind Eli loyalists. They immediately call the critics dumb or clueless.
The Giants front office should be ashamed.
Quote:
110-105. It’s conceivable that if he starts all of 2018, he’ll be a sub .500 QB after 15 seasons. What an epic failure on the part of the organization from top to bottom.
Ravens haven’t been much better for Flacco.
Flacco's record is 88-60. I'm unclear on what your argument is?
Brees has been great but he is a different animal when outdoors and in less than ideal weather conditions.
Quote:
In comment 13704405 The_Boss said:
Quote:
110-105. It’s conceivable that if he starts all of 2018, he’ll be a sub .500 QB after 15 seasons. What an epic failure on the part of the organization from top to bottom.
Ravens haven’t been much better for Flacco.
Flacco's record is 88-60. I'm unclear on what your argument is?
Many of those wins outside of 2012 were in spite of Flacco or he was game-managing them.