1. He isn't ready to suit up for an NFL game. Well, at least according to the current Giants coaching staff. Webb doesn't play on Sunday beyond the simulated game the coaches run him through before the real game. To me at least, this means the Giants coaches don't think Webb is ready for live fire NFL play. Maybe he doesn't know the offense well enough? Who knows? But for now at least, he doesn't appear to be ready.
2. It's nearly impossible for him to succeed this season. The offense has been horrible with Eli Manning at QB for at least two seasons. We can debate Eli's role in the offensive failures but even those most critical of Eli would have to admit there's very little talent on the offense today. The offensive line is terrible. Would Webb be any better at avoiding whoever Flowers is letting in the backfield? Maybe... But maybe Eli is the most durable Giants QB ever because he's really good at avoiding killer hits and maybe Webb wouldn't be as good at this particular facet of the game. There isn't a starting caliber RB on the Giants roster that I can see. There are practice squad receivers at split end and the tight end we drafted has a case of the dropsies. The head coach and offensive coaching staff haven't been able to solve the Tampa 2 defense in two seasons now. It's extremely unlikely that Webb would have any success in the current Giants offense. Why chance ruining the kid with the dreck Reese has put around?
3. He won't likely run the same offense next year. I don't see any way that McAdoo is back as HC. But if he is (and I hope he is not), Is there any way that Sully is back as O-co? So, chances seem pretty high, that Webb will be on this team next year but that he'll be learning a new offense. I don't know that this is necessarily a great reason not to start him because I'm not sure how well he even knows the McAdoo system (see reason 1 above).
Please note, I'm saying I don't think Webb should START. I'd be fine with giving him some snaps in garbage time with some limited play options to get him acclimatized to the NFL. But I would not start him this season as there doesn't seem to be any real upside and there seems like there's lots of downside. This kid was drafted as a two to three season project. Let's not ruin him just yet.
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points.
I agree that he should see some playing time, even if it's garbage time, with some limited packages and limited audible abilities. I'm not sure why he couldn't play when there are at least 7-8 other rookies who have played this year. he's played football his entire life, four years starting at texas tech and Cal, by all accounts he is a football junkie coming from a small town in texas that lives and breathes football and a relentless worker/learner.
I think some Eli fans on this site are genuinely scared that Webb would actually succeed and be more productive than Eli. But that's another issue.
Yes, it’s very likely that the third round project will lead this merry band of misfits to football glory. Holy shit.
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In comment 13704173 Archer said:
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The Giants can’t know what they have with Webb
Is Webb the future QB for the Giants ?
I don’t think that anyone believes that Webb is better than Eli
However, how does Webb compare to Darnold, Rosen, etc
Somehow the Giants need to determine if they must address the position in this draft
There is no way of knowing until you put Webb and Rosen/Darnold on the field in similar situations, in the same system, with the same players. All of them are projections at this point. Webb is a tougher projection because he just doesn't know how to read a defense. The other guys, besides being more polished are simply more experienced than Webb and they haven't even been drafted.
I don't know why you say he can't read defenses. He ran the same offense as Goff did in college (who is doing just fine), in the same conference as Darnold and Rosen, and put up comparable stats his senior year. He also has a little experience running the Giants offense from the preseason games, where he did move the team (granted it was just preseason). Webb is a good prospect.
The preseason isn't about moving the ball or points. It's about getting a look at all the moving parts and how they fit together.
I know you're a Webb fan. I know you think he's as good a prospect as Rosen and Darnold. He isn't.
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In comment 13704179 Modus Operandi said:
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In comment 13704173 Archer said:
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The Giants can’t know what they have with Webb
Is Webb the future QB for the Giants ?
I don’t think that anyone believes that Webb is better than Eli
However, how does Webb compare to Darnold, Rosen, etc
Somehow the Giants need to determine if they must address the position in this draft
There is no way of knowing until you put Webb and Rosen/Darnold on the field in similar situations, in the same system, with the same players. All of them are projections at this point. Webb is a tougher projection because he just doesn't know how to read a defense. The other guys, besides being more polished are simply more experienced than Webb and they haven't even been drafted.
I don't know why you say he can't read defenses. He ran the same offense as Goff did in college (who is doing just fine), in the same conference as Darnold and Rosen, and put up comparable stats his senior year. He also has a little experience running the Giants offense from the preseason games, where he did move the team (granted it was just preseason). Webb is a good prospect.
The preseason isn't about moving the ball or points. It's about getting a look at all the moving parts and how they fit together.
I know you're a Webb fan. I know you think he's as good a prospect as Rosen and Darnold. He isn't.
I wasn't commenting on if I think Webb is/is not as good a prospect as Rosen. I was commenting on the statement you made as fact that Webb can't read defenses. I don't know where you got this, and its not backed up by any facts. He threw for 37 TDs and 12 Ints in the Pac-12 conference, in the same offense as Goff. He obviously can read defenses. He isn't playing because we don't need him too, unlike Cleveland and Kizer as an example.
What the Bills did with Peterman was bad for the team, bad for the coach, bad for the young QB. I'm sure they figured "We know Tyrod Taylor isn't our future. Let's see what the kid's got. What's the worst that could happen?" And then the worst that could happen, happened.
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One first down in an entire half. Yeah Webb would surely be a downgrade.
If you don't think things could get worse, see Nathan Peterman.
What the Bills did with Peterman was bad for the team, bad for the coach, bad for the young QB. I'm sure they figured "We know Tyrod Taylor isn't our future. Let's see what the kid's got. What's the worst that could happen?" And then the worst that could happen, happened.
And people will just point to it just resulting in a loss last Sunday when in reality it could be a lot more than that.
Not going to rehash what I stated in the Webb thread earlier today but there are definite reasons why he shouldn’t play. What’s being especially overlooked is Webb has no bearing on drafting a QB high next year...none. For all those crying about potentially “wasting” a 3rd round pick I’d task them with looking up the success rate of 3rd rounders across the league and for Reese. Hint, it isn’t high. Say we draft Darnold/Rosen and keep Eli we will carry 3 QBs just like this year, which is perfectly fine.
I don't think this has anything to do with the player at all. I think this is the coach and GM being stubborn, short-sighted, and doing everything in their power to try and save their jobs.
I want a coaching rehaul and Webb to be given looks under a new regime. Playing him not under McAdoo could very well be completely worthless.
I don't think this has anything to do with the player at all. I think this is the coach and GM being stubborn, short-sighted, and doing everything in their power to try and save their jobs.
I don’t agree at all. I’m actually getting tired of the “Reese and McAdoo are doing everything possible to save their jobs” posts. There’s nothing they can do to change how Mara will approach each this offseason. And it also doesn’t make sense. Webb will have massive growing pains and we will still pile up the losses - how does growing him out there save their job if the goal is to win?
It would be foolish for the team to not see what they have in the QB room.
The fake punt wasn't an attempt to save his job? The halfback pass wasn't an attempt to save his job? The "brutally honest film session" wasn't an attempt to save his job?
I highly doubt any decisions have been made to this point. And Mara basically said as such in his statement two weeks ago. Reese and McAdoo didn't just find and say oh well, looks like I'll be canned. I'll give up.
And not for nothing, but if Webb comes in and lights the world on fire, Reese might have a claim to stay since he evaluated the kid.
But the future of the franchise falls on ownership as they hold the future of the coach and the GM.
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By all accounts, he's a very smart kid, a coach's son, a gym rat, and an extremely hard worker.
I don't think this has anything to do with the player at all. I think this is the coach and GM being stubborn, short-sighted, and doing everything in their power to try and save their jobs.
I don’t agree at all. I’m actually getting tired of the “Reese and McAdoo are doing everything possible to save their jobs” posts. There’s nothing they can do to change how Mara will approach each this offseason. And it also doesn’t make sense. Webb will have massive growing pains and we will still pile up the losses - how does growing him out there save their job if the goal is to win?
On the jobs point, they may not be coaching to keep their current jobs, but they’re definitely coaching to be employable in a coordinator capacity somewhere else.
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It has nothing to do with him not being NFL ready. They have no idea if he’s NFL ready because they haven’t tested him. He got hardly any live reps in training camp and barely any in preseason and that was by design. This year was always going to be a redshirt year for him to watch and learn and develop free of pressure. That hasn’t changed.
The fact that he didn't get many looks should tell you how steep the learning curve is for Webb.
Go ahead...argue with me
Or Wilson in Seattle.
Or Wentz in Philadelphia.
Or Manning in New York.
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Because that worked out so well for Pederman in Buffalo.
Or Wilson in Seattle.
Or Wentz in Philadelphia.
Or Manning in New York.
Yea because the GM who can’t hit on a draft pick to save his life after round two snagged the next franchise QB in Webb in round 3.
If the Giants end up with a top 3 pick they’re going with the standard groupthink approach and drafting a QB anyways. That pick will be handed every opportunity for reps and playing time over Webb, so what’s the point?
Both coming off changes in the front office.
Eli can still win, but when the other teams knows you have one or two running plays that works here an there, and NO WR of worth on the field, and your team leads the league in dropped passes, expecting miracles on second or third and long ...
King is the only WR that runs a 4.5 .... the Redskins had LB that can run that fast.
We have huge gaps in talent and yes Eli makes mistakes, but he can still win. But no one will win without better talent and coaching.
Who is to say we draft top three and a QB does not want to play in NY because of our situation too. Then what .. Karma never know when its going to visit.
But we already know what we have in Eli, and need to start knowing what we have in Webb. And him struggling is valuable time...while with ELi it is wasted time.
Do you think Webb will be put in a position to succeed in 2018? What happens when we draft a new QB #3 in the draft...will he be put in a position to succeed then too?
The answer is "no" chuckleheads. No one is guaranteed anything. You prepare the best you can, you go play the game and you see what happens...
If its something else, then let me know...
But we already know what we have in Eli, and need to start knowing what we have in Webb. And him struggling is valuable time...while with ELi it is wasted time.
Do you think Webb will be put in a position to succeed in 2018? What happens when we draft a new QB #3 in the draft...will he be put in a position to succeed then too?
The answer is "no" chuckleheads. No one is guaranteed anything. You prepare the best you can, you go play the game and you see what happens...
Eli is the starting QB next year. That’s a fact. I know a lot of people want to push him out but based on his contract he’s not going anywhere.
If the Giants draft a QB top 3, he’s the QB of the future — not Webb. So any reps in ‘17 garbage games means absolutely nothing.
If they don’t draft a QB top 3, I’m pretty confident they’ll bring in competition at the position before Eli plays his last snap with the Giants. I’m sure Webb and the other guy will have a classic camp battle for the spot and that will be that. Anything Webb does or doesn’t do in ‘17 will be meaningless at that point.
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In comment 13704152 Les in TO said:
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points.
I agree that he should see some playing time, even if it's garbage time, with some limited packages and limited audible abilities. I'm not sure why he couldn't play when there are at least 7-8 other rookies who have played this year. he's played football his entire life, four years starting at texas tech and Cal, by all accounts he is a football junkie coming from a small town in texas that lives and breathes football and a relentless worker/learner.
I think some Eli fans on this site are genuinely scared that Webb would actually succeed and be more productive than Eli. But that's another issue.
Yes, it’s very likely that the third round project will lead this merry band of misfits to football glory. Holy shit.
How silly of me. Roger Lewis is Doug Baldwin. Darius Thompson is Earl Thomas. Orleans Darkwa is Marshawn Lynch. Oh yeah and Kelvin Sheppard is Bobby Wagner.
Fact is, the Giants have both talent and coaching deficiencies aplenty. Inserting a 3rd round project does nothing because the roster is crippled by injuries and a poor scheme. Let him keep learning behind Eli. Forcing him in now because we want to see he has is absolutely crazy.
Fix the offensive line. Get Beckham back. Get a running game somehow. Eli can give you one more year. If the value is high enough in April and our new GM thinks highly enough of one of the QB’s, then take him. But throwing Webb to the wolves does nothing now.
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He needs to be put in a position to play. Unless you are a moron and missed the first 11 games of the season, he will not likely succeed with this roster. He will struggle JUST LIKE ELI IS DOING.
But we already know what we have in Eli, and need to start knowing what we have in Webb. And him struggling is valuable time...while with ELi it is wasted time.
Do you think Webb will be put in a position to succeed in 2018? What happens when we draft a new QB #3 in the draft...will he be put in a position to succeed then too?
The answer is "no" chuckleheads. No one is guaranteed anything. You prepare the best you can, you go play the game and you see what happens...
H
Eli is the starting QB next year. That’s a fact. I know a lot of people want to push him out but based on his contract he’s not going anywhere.
If the Giants draft a QB top 3, he’s the QB of the future — not Webb. So any reps in ‘17 garbage games means absolutely nothing.
If they don’t draft a QB top 3, I’m pretty confident they’ll bring in competition at the position before Eli plays his last snap with the Giants. I’m sure Webb and the other guy will have a classic camp battle for the spot and that will be that. Anything Webb does or doesn’t do in ‘17 will be meaningless at that point.
Disagree. I say more likely Eli is gone. Contract be damned.
Putting Webb in any game this year will not show anyone what we have in him. It will show you he is not ready. He isn't supposed to be. Playing him now we will be catering to fans who don't understand how the NFL works.
The Giants need to go into the draft next year facing reality. They have a 37 year old QB who's play is declining and absorbs a massive portion of the salary cap. They are also likely to be changing coaches and offensive systems. If a QB with the potential to be a franchise QB is there, they should take him. Having a project QB on the roster - who may be very good one day - does not change that at all. If Webb is a superstar he will show that in camp next year when he outplays the top pick.
That means the former would need to happen which I can see. It would allow both the Giants and Eli to agree on his exit and do so in a mutual fashion.
If we have the opportunity to draft Darnold I can absolutely see them staying as is, starting Eli and groom Darnold with Webb as the future back up and potential starter if an injury occurs.
But to definitively say this or that will happen when we most likely have a new regime coming in is just flat out foolish.
Again, the plan was never to play him this year, garbage time or not. I get those that don’t agree with it but there is a reason for it. I know everyone is cynical when it comes to McAdoo and Reese but this notion that they aren’t play him because they are too stubborn or trying to save their jobs (whatever that means) is bullshit.
I also don’t know what you will see in garbage time with this roster that will lead to any major decisions in 2018. No what what Webb does he will be battling for the #2 QB spot in 2018.
Because they don’t want him to play this year. It’s really quite simple.
And sticking to the ridiculous strategy borne this summer of redshirting Webb, particularly since the season is clearly lost now, is doing so for selfish reasons only. I actually expect this issue to get worse before it gets better and the owner and coach will be forced to get Webb snaps before the season is out.
Watch and see...
You don't scrap the plan for developing a QB out of curiosity because your season is over. He wasn't supposed to be ready to play now. He likely isn't ready to play. So play him, why? Because fans want it? As mentioned 1,000 times already, you will not see "what you have" by starting a guy who isn't ready.
I am looking for some signs that even in a tough situation, the game is not too much for him. That he can run the huddle, try and read the defense. Make an audible. Show some poise.
Start his career...
You forgot to mention throw the 35 yard fade down the sideline on 3 and 1.
A key play in our arsenal.
2 - While I tend to agree with the OP on point #2, Webb has more mobility than Eli, and can help mitigate the OL's problem by moving the pocket.
3 - What difference does it make that he won't be running McAdoo's offense next year? Using that logic, we should bench Eli for the rest of this season too. Regardless of what offense he runs, giving him PT (whether it's starting or coming in in relief) will allow management to evaluate how he reads coverages, how he recognizes blitzes, responds to pressure, etc.
My guess is that management put the hammer down on McAdoo replacing Eli, but I think that is short sighted. They should be evaluating Webb to see if he has what it takes to be an NFL starter.
If he's really not ready, and is only a backup, then this is damning for the GM.
The coach and GM have no balls, they are afraid. Afraid the fucking streak. The streak should have no fucking relevance when weighed against the long term good of the franchise. If starting games would ruin him, he is no fucking good to us. This is information we should need to know.
Losses only help us. Experience for Webb and information for the franchise helps us. It only hurts the stupid fucking streak.