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Schwartz: Apple at odds with coaches, threatened to leave

Vin_Cuccs : 11/25/2017 4:39 pm
Quote:
The cornerback taken with the 10th overall pick in the 2016 draft was so upset with pointed criticism directed at him by coaches and especially his teammates that not once, but twice, he nearly walked out of the team facility, seeking to get away from it all.

What Ben McAdoo described as a “brutally honest’’ film review Nov. 15, three days after the horrific 31-21 loss to the previously winless 49ers, turned into a difficult session for Apple. He was critiqued more vociferously than any other player, a source with knowledge of the situation told The Post, and he did not handle it well at all.

It was widely believed that veteran cornerback Janoris Jenkins was put through the ringer for his play in Santa Clara, but it was Apple who attracted the most heated and negative scrutiny. Two plays, in particular, irked his teammates as the evidence was displayed on the screen for all to see.

On the first, Apple allowed himself to get blocked out of bounds and did not fight hard enough, or at all, to get back into the play. The second was the most egregious, with Apple and Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie serving as gunners on the punt coverage team. The film showed Rodgers-Cromartie, 31, fighting to defeat the blocking and get down the field. The film also showed Apple, 22, not fighting to do the same.

Teammates lit into Apple for his lack of effort on these plays and he was so taken aback that on two separate occasions, he threatened to walk out of the team facility. He had a discussion with McAdoo, ultimately decided to stay in the building and participated in practice that afternoon.

The next two days, Apple did not report to the team facility, as he was attending to his mother, who underwent successful brain surgery. McAdoo said the missed practice time was the reason Apple was not activated for the game against the Chiefs, which is true, but Apple’s mental state also played a part in his deactivation, according to a source.

This week, with only two light practice days before the Thanksgiving night game in Landover, Md., McAdoo on a short work-week and with no real physical or mental reassurance Apple was ready, again determined Apple would be deactivated for the 20-10 loss to the Redskins.


This season just keeps getting better and better.

Link to the full article below.

If this has been posted, in will gladly delete.
Link - ( New Window )
This season is just LOL  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/25/2017 4:40 pm : link
@ this point.

Apple needs to go, as do a lot of others. This team needs a new culture.
With Jenkins in a boot, Apple should  
Diver_Down : 11/25/2017 4:42 pm : link
be able to earn a jersey unless he still has to keep vigil for his mother.
Eli Apple may literally need to grow up.  
81_Great_Dane : 11/25/2017 4:42 pm : link
That's a bad situation for an NFL player, because nobody has time to be his mom and dad. The Giants (organization and teammates) need him to be a pro, and therefore a more-or-less grown man, and it doesn't sound like he's ready for that. Sounds like he's immature in the most literal sense of that. Childish, but also child-like.

That's a problem the Giants probably can't solve.
Glad Jerry and team did their due diligence on this guy  
widmerseyebrow : 11/25/2017 4:44 pm : link
That kind of attitude doesn't just materialize out of no where.
Having your teammates get on you  
Vanzetti : 11/25/2017 4:44 pm : link
is the best way to cure immaturity and laziness

and you know Collins and Snacks were all over him for that BS.
Bust  
Route 9 : 11/25/2017 4:46 pm : link
Stupid pick
Who the fuck does this guy think he is?  
Sean : 11/25/2017 4:50 pm : link
Get over yourself. 2nd year player.
He is obviously too immature  
Jay on the Island : 11/25/2017 4:51 pm : link
He is going to regret behaving this way. I don't think that he will be a Giant past his rookie contract and he will learn how he messed up big time once he goes to another organization.
And you know that the coaches were smart enough to realize  
jlukes : 11/25/2017 4:51 pm : link
That Apple was feeding his mother, who was in turn blabbing to ESPN as an "anonymous source"
Just another reason it may  
Powerclean765 : 11/25/2017 4:56 pm : link
not be such a genius move to draft 20-21 year olds. It's a man's game. That extra year or 2 makes a big difference at that age.

In reality, Ross Cockrell is a better NFL football player at this point.
Who is the position coach for the secondary  
Rflairr : 11/25/2017 4:56 pm : link
This clown must not have much of relationship with these players
RE: And you know that the coaches were smart enough to realize  
Diver_Down : 11/25/2017 4:57 pm : link
In comment 13704901 jlukes said:
Quote:
That Apple was feeding his mother, who was in turn blabbing to ESPN as an "anonymous source"


Back in the anonymous source threads, there were a few BBI members that speculated that Apple was one of the culprits.
i guess the people who critiqued him for not being able to cook  
CMicks3110 : 11/25/2017 4:57 pm : link
got into his head about football too
He should be suspended for the season  
spike : 11/25/2017 4:59 pm : link
And go hang with his mother
Just another knock on mcadoo  
Josh in the City : 11/25/2017 5:04 pm : link
doesn’t command respect and is not a leader of men. Apple has a ton of talent but you don’t release or trade him until you see what a real head coach can get out of him.
What a weak ass player if this is true  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/25/2017 5:08 pm : link
Go run to momma jfc
RE: And you know that the coaches were smart enough to realize  
Route 9 : 11/25/2017 5:08 pm : link
In comment 13704901 jlukes said:
Quote:
That Apple was feeding his mother, who was in turn blabbing to ESPN as an "anonymous source"


Yep...knew she'd be an annoyance (if that is true of course)

.....
Route 9 : 5/24/2016 4:29 am : link

There is reason there was a spike in Mrs. Apple Twitter followers after she said what she said. People obviously care about this kind of stuff for some reason. Also, I don’t see why it’s so surprising that people are becoming irritated Mrs Apple is becoming a mini-extravaganza. All of the articles I've seen posted by Facebook pages feel the same way, "stop trying to make her become a thing" ...I believe we're the words
Teammates cooked his goose,  
section125 : 11/25/2017 5:08 pm : link
and wanted to run home to mommy? Wow. Bet Collins and maybe Snacks would have been likely candidates. Alabama training with Saban and such.

If teammates do it, it is harder than the coaches.
maybe he can take a knee  
mdc1 : 11/25/2017 5:10 pm : link
. Coaches to hard on him.
This guy is an immature child  
montanagiant : 11/25/2017 5:11 pm : link
Remember all the shit Prince got when dumped in the ice tub by JPP and he got pissed? This is 10X worse of reaction to what is his obvious lack of effort at times
RE: RE: And you know that the coaches were smart enough to realize  
montanagiant : 11/25/2017 5:12 pm : link
In comment 13704917 Route 9 said:
Quote:
In comment 13704901 jlukes said:


Quote:


That Apple was feeding his mother, who was in turn blabbing to ESPN as an "anonymous source"



Yep...knew she'd be an annoyance (if that is true of course)

.....
Route 9 : 5/24/2016 4:29 am : link

There is reason there was a spike in Mrs. Apple Twitter followers after she said what she said. People obviously care about this kind of stuff for some reason. Also, I don’t see why it’s so surprising that people are becoming irritated Mrs Apple is becoming a mini-extravaganza. All of the articles I've seen posted by Facebook pages feel the same way, "stop trying to make her become a thing" ...I believe we're the words

I remember a few of us getting killed on here for pointing out that she would become an issue
RE: RE: RE: And you know that the coaches were smart enough to realize  
section125 : 11/25/2017 5:14 pm : link
In comment 13704924 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 13704917 Route 9 said:


Quote:

I remember a few of us getting killed on here for pointing out that she would become an issue


Masterful.....
It always is ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  
montanagiant : 11/25/2017 5:19 pm : link
.
What widmerseyebrow said.  
Red Dog : 11/25/2017 5:19 pm : link
Just another reason that Reese and Ross have to go away.
he thinks he was disrespected, welcome to the working world  
gtt350 : 11/25/2017 5:21 pm : link
.
RE: he thinks he was disrespected, welcome to the working world  
mdc1 : 11/25/2017 5:27 pm : link
In comment 13704933 gtt350 said:
Quote:
.

lol, guess he does not fit in with this group of men.
RE: With Jenkins in a boot, Apple should  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/25/2017 5:29 pm : link
In comment 13704890 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
be able to earn a jersey unless he still has to keep vigil for his mother.

It obviously earned a deletion the first time but between you and me, I'll repeat what I said to you last time.

When you lose your mother, maybe you'll grow a heart.
RE: RE: With Jenkins in a boot, Apple should  
Diver_Down : 11/25/2017 5:33 pm : link
In comment 13704939 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13704890 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


be able to earn a jersey unless he still has to keep vigil for his mother.


It obviously earned a deletion the first time but between you and me, I'll repeat what I said to you last time.

When you lose your mother, maybe you'll grow a heart.


I did. 6.12.16. She lived with me when everyone else in the family left her alone. She lived with me in St. Augustine for 10 years before she didn't wake up one morning. I'm still haunted by the robotic voice of the AED device barking out instructions to the paramedics as they tried to revive her.

So GO FUCK YOURSELF.
RE: Glad Jerry and team did their due diligence on this guy  
djm : 11/25/2017 5:33 pm : link
In comment 13704893 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
That kind of attitude doesn't just materialize out of no where.


Actually, it can materialize out of nowhere. For an example see pepper Johnson and others who basically led an on and off the field revolt against rod rust/ handley in 1992. Was pepper a bad character player? Or was he just fed up with incompetent leadership?

Now, this apple thing is diffenrent, but it stems from a similar place in my view.
Sometimes the player is right - ( New Window )
If he has to be by his mother's side...  
gmen4ever : 11/25/2017 5:35 pm : link
I get that and went through it when I was his age. If he's having difficulty staying focused due to his mother's illness then he should be given time off, no issue there. But if he can't handle the criticism from his coaches or the players then he is not long for this team, especially in NY. I hope it works out but I don't see it. He seems to pout and may have some growing up to do.
So who is Schwartz’s source for this information?  
RDJR : 11/25/2017 5:36 pm : link
I’m glad they are sharing, but isn’t that a problem too? Singling Apple out after that team wide disaster was a poor choice by a coach that should know his players. The other players would have taken care of the situation if McAdoo knew how to use a locker room.
I take back everything I said defending him  
adamg : 11/25/2017 5:39 pm : link
Can't take the heat, go fuck yourself.
RE: So who is Schwartz’s source for this information?  
BigBlueShock : 11/25/2017 5:45 pm : link
In comment 13704947 RDJR said:
Quote:
I’m glad they are sharing, but isn’t that a problem too? Singling Apple out after that team wide disaster was a poor choice by a coach that should know his players. The other players would have taken care of the situation if McAdoo knew how to use a locker room.

If you’ve been paying attention, Apple WAS NOT singled out in that video session. Jackrabbit was hammered too, among many others. Apple may have gotten more ridicule, but he absolutely deserved it and I’m not sure how you come away from all of the reports regarding that meeting thinking Apple was singled out. Is it because this one article is discussing him? There have been many others that have come out about that meeting too...
RE: RE: RE: With Jenkins in a boot, Apple should  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/25/2017 5:45 pm : link
In comment 13704944 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13704939 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13704890 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


be able to earn a jersey unless he still has to keep vigil for his mother.


It obviously earned a deletion the first time but between you and me, I'll repeat what I said to you last time.

When you lose your mother, maybe you'll grow a heart.



I did. 6.12.16. She lived with me when everyone else in the family left her alone. She lived with me in St. Augustine for 10 years before she didn't wake up one morning. I'm still haunted by the robotic voice of the AED device barking out instructions to the paramedics as they tried to revive her.

So GO FUCK YOURSELF.

You'd think you'd have a little sympathy for a young man that is probably terrified of experiencing what you (and I) went through. These are real human beings. Don't you think that might put him on edge? Did you not find yourself more irritable and anxious as you dealt with the fear of losing your mother?

I just don't understand what makes you take such an insensitive position on this, particularly if you relate to what he's afraid of.
I highly doubt  
djm : 11/25/2017 5:50 pm : link
The Giants aren't handling the sickness of Eli's mom properly and I highly doubt this has anything at all do with the price of tea in China.

This is bigger or deeper than that.

these kids are treated all their life as superstars  
George from PA : 11/25/2017 5:51 pm : link
and just can not take it.

the Giants usually stay away from talented pampered players
Apple and Flowers in the top 10  
ghost718 : 11/25/2017 5:53 pm : link
The leading cause of Migraines in the tri state area
RE: RE: So who is Schwartz’s source for this information?  
RDJR : 11/25/2017 5:56 pm : link
In comment 13704955 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13704947 RDJR said:


Quote:


I’m glad they are sharing, but isn’t that a problem too? Singling Apple out after that team wide disaster was a poor choice by a coach that should know his players. The other players would have taken care of the situation if McAdoo knew how to use a locker room.


If you’ve been paying attention, Apple WAS NOT singled out in that video session. Jackrabbit was hammered too, among many others. Apple may have gotten more ridicule, but he absolutely deserved it and I’m not sure how you come away from all of the reports regarding that meeting thinking Apple was singled out. Is it because this one article is discussing him? There have been many others that have come out about that meeting too...


All players need to be treated differently depending on their personalities, position within the hierarchy of the team, personal situations, etc... It is the art of coaching. It is what BP excelled at. What TC learned after being told to change or else. “More ridicule”, for a kid like Apple was probably not a smart coaching move.
RE: Apple and Flowers in the top 10  
Danny Kanell : 11/25/2017 5:56 pm : link
In comment 13704974 ghost718 said:
Quote:
The leading cause of Migraines in the tri state area


Putting Apple in the same sentence as Flowers is an insult to Flowers. At least Flowers cares, took all the criticism like a man and has worked his ass off to get better. Apple and his mom have been assholes since day 1.
I saw this at training camp and I saw this week 3 and 4  
Sy'56 : 11/25/2017 5:58 pm : link
Apple doesn't take this seriously...

And yes, it was a red flag on the college reports.

See ya, kid.
No it's not  
ghost718 : 11/25/2017 6:07 pm : link
Flowers stinks too,and his attitude has been questioned in the past.
I’m glad the guys got on him.  
Giant John : 11/25/2017 6:14 pm : link
Wake up or watch football on TV. Oh and don't forget your shift at McDonalds starts at 8:00 am.
Fuck this guy  
Ned In Atlanta : 11/25/2017 6:16 pm : link
Cut his ass
I don't usually say this  
moespree : 11/25/2017 6:25 pm : link
But it seems this was probably a spoiled brat childhood who got told how great he was all the time, coasted through high school as a star football player, played at a big time college and now has zero idea how to handle adversity as an adult. Signs of this were there with his mother's tweeting habits before and during his time with the Giants.

I'd hate to think they did no character report on this guy before drafting him, but a spoiled, pampered, immature person is hard to miss.
Part of me wants to give him  
Matt in SGS : 11/25/2017 6:29 pm : link
a little bit of a pass with his mom's health....however. You are a professional NFL player, and a very well paid one at that.

When we go back to one of the knocks on him coming out of Ohio State that he didn't know how to cook for himself and we laughed at it. Reading between the lines, that meant "immature" and "momma's boy".

This whole season has been a shitshow from the word go. The moment Odell got hurt in Cleveland on down. Just end this mess and start fresh on January 1.
Another feather  
Sammo85 : 11/25/2017 6:31 pm : link
In the time to fire Reese cap.

Major mistake drafting him. As Sy said there were red flags on his character coming out of Ohio State.
i think it is still early....the die has not been cast.  
George from PA : 11/25/2017 6:56 pm : link
he probably never experienced losing.

he has a close relationship with mom....and brain surgery sound serious....so i am sure it all started cave in on him


i am giving him more time to step up
The main Reason the owners  
Manning10 : 11/25/2017 7:04 pm : link
are keeping Goodell because he has track record with the Networks and hope he can work his negotiating magic again. It will be tougher due to falling ratings which may mean going off the Free TV Networks making deals with Google , Apple or Facebook.
The product will suffer because they only care about making Big Cash like a bunch of Mafia Dons.
Cedric Jones doesn’t deserve the comparison  
TommytheElephant : 11/25/2017 7:05 pm : link
But in terms of drafting ... this seems like the Giants had another Tom Boisture moment ...
Ogden,Hardy, and Rice are gone - unprepared panic pick
sorry wrong thread  
Manning10 : 11/25/2017 7:05 pm : link
apoligies
Great top 10 pick.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/25/2017 7:06 pm : link
2nd year player who's struggled mightily this season and think his shit doesn't stink.

Bust in every way imaginable.
@Matt in SGS  
FragileFox2 : 11/25/2017 7:07 pm : link
Lol! Forgot about the "cooking" comment. I remember the interviews with Reese and McAdoo where they deflected questions about his "life skills". No concern about his 'life skills', came across very professional in the interview.
Josh in the city  
joeinpa : 11/25/2017 7:11 pm : link
This isn't on MacAdoo. This is about a young man growing up being taught it was never his fault

When he got into the real world and didn t like how the coach was treating him he did what he always did. Run to his Mommy and try to get her to fix it.

No disrespect to her surgery that is a legitimate concern and thank God it went well.

But if he leaked through his Mom to the media that is pathetic.
Another great REESE pick.  
TMS : 11/25/2017 7:15 pm : link
When will it end ? Reese has been incompetent from the beginning and the poison pill we got from Acoursi for hiring Coughlin. For those of you who know the history.
RE: Josh in the city  
HomerJones45 : 11/25/2017 7:25 pm : link
In comment 13705059 joeinpa said:
Quote:
This isn't on MacAdoo. This is about a young man growing up being taught it was never his fault

When he got into the real world and didn t like how the coach was treating him he did what he always did. Run to his Mommy and try to get her to fix it.

No disrespect to her surgery that is a legitimate concern and thank God it went well.

But if he leaked through his Mom to the media that is pathetic.
kid was fine last season so did he have an immaturity attack this season?
Jerry Reach  
Mr. Nickels : 11/25/2017 7:27 pm : link
Sure loves blowing high picks on 4th string secondary players as his fan boys lap it up as a "need" pick.
When the Giants fire McAdoo and Browns fire Jackson...  
Milton : 11/25/2017 7:44 pm : link
The new head coach for the Giants should bring in DeWayne Walker as the DB coach (he's currently the DB coach for the Browns). He did an excellent job when he coached the position under Fassel. Will Peterson and Will Allen loved him and (if you read between the lines) basically said it was like night and day going from Johnnie Lynn (who had been promoted to DC) as their DB coach to Walker as their DB coach. On top of that, he was instrumental in the Giants making the big nickel a big part of their defensive game plan (in order to get Johnnie Harris on the field more).
Mcadoo has had  
TrueBlue56 : 11/25/2017 8:25 pm : link
Issues with DRC, Jenkins and now Apple. The main theme I see here as I have seen all this year is mcadoo failure to understand his players and communicate. Every player is different, they have different temperaments. It is a coach's job to know what buttons to push and when to push them.

Once again I will quote Bill parcells in how he dealt with players:

Quote:
I don’t believe in consistency as it relates to handling players. I believe in being right for each guy. I tried to do my best to understand what a particular player needed to be pushed to do his best. I felt an obligatory responsibility to give the players what they needed for the best chance to win.”


And another one:

Quote:
"The guys I could do those things to, I knew them so well, I almost knew how they would respond before they did,” Parcells said.


I can't imagine what Eli Apple has been going through from a personal standpoint in dealing with his mom.

Some of the posts here make me sick!! Names get thrown out as to who is the blame for what with no regard for any truth at all. Just wild speculation to raise the vitriol.

Ever stop to think that maybe Annie Apple has more pressing matters to attend to than keeping conversations with the media?? Outside of when Apple was drafted, where has his mom been an issue? When has she spoken badly about anyone in the organization?
Athletic talent and potential  
TMS : 11/25/2017 8:33 pm : link
are there but attitude is apparently not. Maybe Collins should have a talk with him . Thats where team leaders come into play. We will see.
RE: Mcadoo has had  
Milton : 11/25/2017 8:38 pm : link
In comment 13705105 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
Issues with DRC, Jenkins and now Apple. The main theme I see here as I have seen all this year is mcadoo failure to understand his players and communicate. Every player is different, they have different temperaments. It is a coach's job to know what buttons to push and when to push them.

Once again I will quote Bill parcells in how he dealt with players:

Quote:

I don’t believe in consistency as it relates to handling players. I believe in being right for each guy. I tried to do my best to understand what a particular player needed to be pushed to do his best. I felt an obligatory responsibility to give the players what they needed for the best chance to win.”

McAdoo has said the same exact thing...
Quote:

I'm very consistent, I'm going to treat everyone differently. The way that they need to be treated to get the most out of 'em is the way we have to operate.

I guess it's all in the execution!
Sounds like Eli is a bad apple  
Rover : 11/25/2017 8:38 pm : link
Got to go.
Conklin would have  
rebel yell : 11/25/2017 8:39 pm : link
been so great for that pick. JR asleep and out of the loop as always.
RE: Sounds like Eli is a bad apple  
TMS : 11/25/2017 8:41 pm : link
In comment 13705120 Rover said:
Quote:
Got to go.
LOL
Apple is one of the reasons I want Reese fired!  
Fishmanjim57 : 11/25/2017 8:51 pm : link
If the Giants end up with one of the top picks, I don't want that idiot to get another Eli Apple type player!
FIRE REESE NOW!
RE: RE: Mcadoo has had  
TrueBlue56 : 11/25/2017 9:29 pm : link
In comment 13705119 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13705105 TrueBlue56 said:


Quote:


Issues with DRC, Jenkins and now Apple. The main theme I see here as I have seen all this year is mcadoo failure to understand his players and communicate. Every player is different, they have different temperaments. It is a coach's job to know what buttons to push and when to push them.

Once again I will quote Bill parcells in how he dealt with players:

Quote:

I don’t believe in consistency as it relates to handling players. I believe in being right for each guy. I tried to do my best to understand what a particular player needed to be pushed to do his best. I felt an obligatory responsibility to give the players what they needed for the best chance to win.”



McAdoo has said the same exact thing...

Quote:



I'm very consistent, I'm going to treat everyone differently. The way that they need to be treated to get the most out of 'em is the way we have to operate.


I guess it's all in the execution!


A direct quote from mcadoo following the 49ers game....

Quote:
"They’re pro football players. They need to be self-motivated. Everybody gets a paycheck this week. We need to go out and play that way.”


Either mcadoo does not know how to motivate his players or he doesn't believe that it's part of his responsibilities, either way it is an indictment on him. Ben mcadoo is a big reason why this team is where it is, but let's blame the players, the parents and anyone else we find convenient.
This isn't on McAdoo.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/25/2017 9:45 pm : link
This is on Apple. Seems like he can't take criticism. Oh, and guess what? When he has been out there this season, he's been an absolute disgrace.
This is not on mcadoo?????  
djm : 11/25/2017 9:55 pm : link
Everything is on mcadoo!! He's the head coach!

This may not be ON him, but mcadoo sure as shit hasn't helped matters. That we can all be certain of.
RE: Jerry Reach  
WillVAB : 11/25/2017 10:11 pm : link
In comment 13705076 Mr. Nickels said:
Quote:
Sure loves blowing high picks on 4th string secondary players as his fan boys lap it up as a "need" pick.


Yep. It’s a passing league so the Giants need to invest a premium pick in a number 3 corner. Meanwhile the OL doesn’t have a single reliable above average starter.
RE: This isn't on McAdoo.  
TrueBlue56 : 11/25/2017 10:13 pm : link
In comment 13705191 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
This is on Apple. Seems like he can't take criticism. Oh, and guess what? When he has been out there this season, he's been an absolute disgrace.


How the hell is this not on mcadoo? This is not one player, one position group, or even one unit. This is the whole Damn team!!! and oh by the way, the one area that mcadoo was hired for (offense) has been the worse of all aspects of the team since he was hired, but no this isn't on mcadoo. It's the players and the parents. What a joke

Blue 56  
joeinpa : 11/25/2017 10:26 pm : link
The situation with Apple is not on MacAdoo. What is a joke is how you took things out of context

No one is defending him Aa a coach
RE: I saw this at training camp and I saw this week 3 and 4  
old man : 11/25/2017 10:42 pm : link
In comment 13704983 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
Apple doesn't take this seriously...

And yes, it was a red flag on the college reports.

See ya, kid.


KNOWN Attitude AND holding issues. And STILL drafted?
Note to Giants FO:
YOU CAN'T TEACH 'HEART'!!!

As someone said, Another reason Reese has to go.
Let him go to  
old man : 11/25/2017 10:46 pm : link
Seattle or SF.
Laid back lifestyle.

Even better: trade to Cleveland or Cincy, he can be close to mom. Take a 2nd or 3rd(Cincy loves those guys with 'tude issues).
Im starting to wonder  
Sammo85 : 11/25/2017 10:48 pm : link
If the discord and mutinous actions by some of the defenders were in relation to the kid gloves treatment Apple was getting as a first round pick in terms of continuous playing time despite numerous bad games and really bad tape.

All of a sudden Apple gets benched and the defense has two of its best games all season.

Coincidence?
Dude is the exact opposite  
ryanmkeane : 11/25/2017 11:07 pm : link
of what you want a NFL player to be.
delicate flower  
spike : 11/25/2017 11:12 pm : link
He is not even good
Without Seeing What Went On,  
OntheRoad : 11/26/2017 12:00 am : link
there is no way to distinguish a malcontent from a young man trying to cope with great emotional strain.

 

If an actor has a bad performance, it's usually his fault. If the entire cast has a bad performance, it's the director's fault. This didn't suddenly go from a talent-laden team to a bunch of scrubs. If McAdoo can't do better than 2-8 with this roster, he shouldn't be the Giants coach. The attempt at playing tough guy has come way too late and seems to have done more harm than good.
RE: I saw this at training camp and I saw this week 3 and 4  
LauderdaleMatty : 11/26/2017 12:03 am : link
In comment 13704983 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
Apple doesn't take this seriously...

And yes, it was a red flag on the college reports.

See ya, kid.


Reese loves to pick DBs early. Thompson look like shit too.
RE: RE: This isn't on McAdoo.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/26/2017 12:10 am : link
In comment 13705219 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13705191 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


This is on Apple. Seems like he can't take criticism. Oh, and guess what? When he has been out there this season, he's been an absolute disgrace.



How the hell is this not on mcadoo? This is not one player, one position group, or even one unit. This is the whole Damn team!!! and oh by the way, the one area that mcadoo was hired for (offense) has been the worse of all aspects of the team since he was hired, but no this isn't on mcadoo. It's the players and the parents. What a joke


The situation with Apple is on Apple because he's a millennial geek that apparently can't take criticism when he's been fucking up all season long. That's on him. He's starting to become a cancer to this team and locker room.
This is a character issue, not a head coach issue.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/26/2017 12:24 am : link
You'd prefer to see a young player with zero accomplishments take his teammates' criticism to heart and either learn from it and get better or get angry and let it propel you. Apple chose option number 3 and decided to be petulant. (Although one can make the argument that DRC and Jenkins haven't been sterling examples of professionalism in 2017.) Oddly enough, the pre-draft criticism of Apple was correct in a roundabout way.

Heck, I'd blame Jerry Reese infinitely more than the coach because we're consistently seeing that lack of maturity is an issue with drafting such young players.
Apple caught on camera after the film session.  
robbieballs2003 : 11/26/2017 6:37 am : link
Some of this is millenial stuff  
DavidinBMNY : 11/26/2017 7:10 am : link
These millenials are a mess. Honestly, having your mom be in a seriously life threatening situation and getting the shit kicked out of you mentally by your teammates - He'll either crumble or come out stronger.

Let's hope for intense professional effort.
He is an immature  
ZogZerg : 11/26/2017 7:46 am : link
player who liked to talk shit.
He got a strong dose of reality smacked in his face. He struggled handling it. Time for his agent to have a talk with him.

He needs to get back on the bike and try again. Hopefully he'll grow up some.
It is not mutually exclusive  
SomeFan : 11/26/2017 7:49 am : link
McAdoo is a bad HC and Apple is an immature crybaby that cannot be coached. They both should be gone asap.
There have been  
XBRONX : 11/26/2017 7:52 am : link
comments that Reeses drafting stinks after round two. Fact is, he stinks drafting every round.
My favorite is the line "Threatened to leave" if true  
Jimmy Googs : 11/26/2017 7:56 am : link
what an idiot...

pretty sad and embarrassing thread for some on this post  
micky : 11/26/2017 8:18 am : link
wow
First let's dispense with the foolishness  
bc4life : 11/26/2017 8:47 am : link
Why drag his Mother, recovering from Brain surgery and who has not played one down for Giants into this?

If you can't get this kid's head right before the draft - cut bait, trade for what you can. But, I wouldn't write him off just yet. Clearly, he has maturity and heart issues - but maybe someone can get to him and salvage some pretty decent athletic ability.

The immaturity was, and is, a red flag, but  
Bob in Newburgh : 11/26/2017 10:17 am : link
it is certainly not isolated to Apple as a member of the draft pool. Ridiculous reasoning to eliminate a college player from consideration. The answer - hire competetent coaching staff. And yes, the age of their players mean that dealing with maturity issues is sure to be part of their job description.

Holding and CBs should be an off-limits discussion. PI at both the pro and college levels is subject to no objective standard. There are CBs who are never called as long as they get their head around which may be all the stupid reffing crews can handle. Likewise, many receivers sole means of creating separation is the arm push off and they are also never called unless the they actually manage to grab jersey.

Rules and enforcement relating to the passing game are an absolute unenforceable mess right now. I would give all CBs a pass right now until there is an objective standard to teach that does not competitively disadvantage them.
Reese  
AcidTest : 11/26/2017 10:25 am : link
was in a difficult position that year. The Titans and Bears gave up a lot to move up for Conklin and Floyd. I also don't blame Reese for not taking Tunsil. Not after Will Hill.

But Apple's character concerns were known before the draft, along with his tendency to grab, and difficulty finding the ball in the air. Reese should have accepted a trade down, even if he didn't get "full value" for the pick.

Apple right now wouldn't net more than a day three pick in a trade.
Cutting or trading Apple now  
Reb8thVA : 11/26/2017 10:56 am : link
Would be a case of selling low and buying high. I think the talent is there and the maturity/attitude issues can be addressed. Peer pressure/peer counseling or simply scarring him can work wonders. I see no positives to bailing on him now, especially if the plan is to release DRC next year.
RE: Reese  
section125 : 11/26/2017 11:08 am : link
In comment 13705475 AcidTest said:
Quote:
was in a difficult position that year. The Titans and Bears gave up a lot to move up for Conklin and Floyd. I also don't blame Reese for not taking Tunsil. Not after Will Hill.

But Apple's character concerns were known before the draft, along with his tendency to grab, and difficulty finding the ball in the air. Reese should have accepted a trade down, even if he didn't get "full value" for the pick.

Apple right now wouldn't net more than a day three pick in a trade.


Yeah, that makes sense. Trade down for less than full value and not draft a kid ranked in the top 2 or 3 CBs in the draft.
Screw the grabbing - watch Jackrabbit and Sherman play.

He isn't a stupid kid. Maybe highly sensitive, but not stupid. He seems to be a whiner, but give the kid another year to toughen up. The other players will work on him and he may get serious next year or even later this year. He'll have to play with Jackrabbit out and Deayon with a broken arm. 5 more games to evaluate and persuade. See how it goes.
RE: RE: Reese  
AcidTest : 11/26/2017 11:28 am : link
In comment 13705506 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13705475 AcidTest said:


Quote:


was in a difficult position that year. The Titans and Bears gave up a lot to move up for Conklin and Floyd. I also don't blame Reese for not taking Tunsil. Not after Will Hill.

But Apple's character concerns were known before the draft, along with his tendency to grab, and difficulty finding the ball in the air. Reese should have accepted a trade down, even if he didn't get "full value" for the pick.

Apple right now wouldn't net more than a day three pick in a trade.



Yeah, that makes sense. Trade down for less than full value and not draft a kid ranked in the top 2 or 3 CBs in the draft.
Screw the grabbing - watch Jackrabbit and Sherman play.

He isn't a stupid kid. Maybe highly sensitive, but not stupid. He seems to be a whiner, but give the kid another year to toughen up. The other players will work on him and he may get serious next year or even later this year. He'll have to play with Jackrabbit out and Deayon with a broken arm. 5 more games to evaluate and persuade. See how it goes.


I agree we need to see what he has the rest of the year, and that he'll likely be on the team next year because of his low trade value, the impending departure of DRC, and our needs at other positions. But his character concerns were known before the draft. It was Reese's responsibility to ensure that they would not be problematic, especially given where he was drafted. If you don't want to or can't trade down, then take someone else.
Whatever  
HomerJones45 : 11/26/2017 11:30 am : link
other guys have checked out this year at times and some have stayed checked out. This team wasn't going anywhere anyway. McAdoo is a clown, was a bad choice, should have been canned in SF and will be canned on January 2 never to be heard from as a HC again. This ChiCom-inspired meeting to appear, confess guilt and repent before the masses was stupid and wouldn't have been necessary if he knew what the fuck he was doing.

Apple isn't going anywhere. He's got #1 pick talent (presumably) and we need him to play. Hopefully GM Jr and Forrest Gump surprise everyone and actually get a professional football coach in here this time to straighten out the mess along with a GM that knows what he is doing. The rest is just a sideshow at this point.
RE: Whatever  
Reb8thVA : 11/26/2017 11:38 am : link
In comment 13705520 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
other guys have checked out this year at times and some have stayed checked out. This team wasn't going anywhere anyway. McAdoo is a clown, was a bad choice, should have been canned in SF and will be canned on January 2 never to be heard from as a HC again. This ChiCom-inspired meeting to appear, confess guilt and repent before the masses was stupid and wouldn't have been necessary if he knew what the fuck he was doing.

Apple isn't going anywhere. He's got #1 pick talent (presumably) and we need him to play. Hopefully GM Jr and Forrest Gump surprise everyone and actually get a professional football coach in here this time to straighten out the mess along with a GM that knows what he is doing. The rest is just a sideshow at this point.


Love the Chi-Com reference. I think the last time I heard that I was watching John Wayne in the Green Berets.
RE: RE: RE: Reese  
section125 : 11/26/2017 12:13 pm : link
In comment 13705517 AcidTest said:
Quote:

It was Reese's responsibility to ensure that they would not be problematic, especially given where he was drafted. If you don't want to or can't trade down, then take someone else.


Yes because 20 year olds never mature and Reese has a crystal ball to tell him that Apple will never grow up.
He is a whiny bitch  
Jay on the Island : 11/26/2017 12:20 pm : link
He needs to grow up and earn playing time. He has no idea how good he has it being a member of this organization. I would happily trade him for a conditional 2nd round pick but no team would be willing to give that up for him as of now. Unfortunately the best plan is to try to rebuild a relationship with him once a new coach, DC, and position coach are brought in. If he continues to behave this way then he should be traded for whatever they can get. I don't want to outright release him because he would likely sign with Dallas and he would be motivated.
RE: Jerry Reach  
Jay on the Island : 11/26/2017 12:23 pm : link
In comment 13705076 Mr. Nickels said:
Quote:
Sure loves blowing high picks on 4th string secondary players as his fan boys lap it up as a "need" pick.

He has blown high picks on secondary players? Terrell Thomas, Aaron Ross, Kenny Phillips, Landon Collins, and Prince Amukamara were/are bad players? The truth is the Giants don't make it to SB 42 without Ross.
RE: This guy is an immature child  
AnishPatel : 11/26/2017 12:28 pm : link
In comment 13704923 montanagiant said:
Quote:
Remember all the shit Prince got when dumped in the ice tub by JPP and he got pissed? This is 10X worse of reaction to what is his obvious lack of effort at times




Quote:
Before the draft, an anonymous scout gave the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel an unusual evaluation of Apple: “I worry about him because of off-the-field issues. The kid has no life skills. At all. Can’t cook. Just a baby. He scares me to death.’’ This review at the time was generally scoffed at, but after nearly two years with Apple, the Giants have increasing concerns about his maturity and professionalism.

link - ( New Window )
I'm really confused,  
BIGbluegermany : 11/26/2017 1:01 pm : link
first i wanted this guy get traded,then i heard about the brain surgery.Now i really don't know whats going on there.This season is weird.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Reese  
AcidTest : 11/26/2017 1:32 pm : link
In comment 13705546 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13705517 AcidTest said:


Quote:



It was Reese's responsibility to ensure that they would not be problematic, especially given where he was drafted. If you don't want to or can't trade down, then take someone else.



Yes because 20 year olds never mature and Reese has a crystal ball to tell him that Apple will never grow up.


It's Reese's responsibility, especially for top 10 picks. If you have any doubt, you take someone else.

But as I said, I agree that Reese was in a difficult position that year because Tunsil basically messed up the first round for the Giants. If he had an otherwise good draft record, Reese could therefore be forgiven for taking Apple. But he doesn't.

I also agree that it's too early to make final judgments about Apple, especially since he'll likely be on the team next year.
the NFL and teams could really help themselves  
mdc1 : 11/26/2017 1:41 pm : link
by adopting typical corporate practices that everyone uses to weed out the underachievers from the achievers. resumes, background checks, "fit" defined as someone stable that is not a risk to the workplace. I doubt anyone would hire this fool in the real world if they looked at his complete background. Also begs tighter standards when selecting players in college, finish 4 years, grades, same as a job (no college (4yrs +), maybe no job if someone else has that credential). Else they should just create an NFL minor league and let them be fools in less optical environment and weed them out there.

I recall reading an article a few years back about the early beginnings of taking immature adults (HS and early college jump) in the NBA. Some funny shit, guys were eating popeyes/fast food everynight on the road, would show up without a suit, fined and their mentor would drop by their room to check in on them and they would have 5 or more expensive suits lying on the floor not knowing what a fucking dry cleaners is. Hopefully he is not the victim of a helicopter mom. Hopefully he is not rudderless without his mom as she faces health issues.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Reese  
mdc1 : 11/26/2017 1:49 pm : link
In comment 13705604 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 13705546 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 13705517 AcidTest said:


Quote:



It was Reese's responsibility to ensure that they would not be problematic, especially given where he was drafted. If you don't want to or can't trade down, then take someone else.



Yes because 20 year olds never mature and Reese has a crystal ball to tell him that Apple will never grow up.



It's Reese's responsibility, especially for top 10 picks. If you have any doubt, you take someone else.

But as I said, I agree that Reese was in a difficult position that year because Tunsil basically messed up the first round for the Giants. If he had an otherwise good draft record, Reese could therefore be forgiven for taking Apple. But he doesn't.

I also agree that it's too early to make final judgments about Apple, especially since he'll likely be on the team next year.


hopefully not, lacks emotional intelligence as we are noticing. Some of these generational guys cannot accept it when someone calls them out for mistakes, since they were coddled like babies by their families and environment. We do not need another project like Flowers, deal him to SJW minded team.
I'm at the point where I don't care who was drafted where  
Rjanyg : 11/26/2017 2:40 pm : link
And who makes too much money and dead money against the cap........if you won't be a professional you should be gone!

Be it Vernon, Apple, Jenkins, DRC, JPP and OBJ.

The culture in the NFL is a complete shit show. The Giants need to bring in team first talent. This is why ND Guard Nelson needs to be our pick. The guys is an outstanding football player who loves the game. Our O line needs more passionate, team first football players with crap loads of talent.

Done with the jerks that only think of themselves.

Plus drafting these young guys is starting to be detrimental. They are soft and immature. I'll take a Senior over these 20 year old players with upside.

Reese's formula is in need of a change
Wait a sec, Paul Schwartz  
eclipz928 : 11/26/2017 2:45 pm : link
was the person who wrote the article in the OP? Not the most credible writer, or publication - I'd hold off on making judgements on this for now.
RE: Wait a sec, Paul Schwartz  
mdc1 : 11/26/2017 2:47 pm : link
In comment 13705688 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
was the person who wrote the article in the OP? Not the most credible writer, or publication - I'd hold off on making judgements on this for now.


Schwartz is just the messenger, you have 2 eyes and a brain and can see Apple on field.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Reese  
HomerJones45 : 11/26/2017 2:59 pm : link
In comment 13705630 mdc1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13705604 AcidTest said:


Quote:


In comment 13705546 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 13705517 AcidTest said:


Quote:



It was Reese's responsibility to ensure that they would not be problematic, especially given where he was drafted. If you don't want to or can't trade down, then take someone else.



Yes because 20 year olds never mature and Reese has a crystal ball to tell him that Apple will never grow up.



It's Reese's responsibility, especially for top 10 picks. If you have any doubt, you take someone else.

But as I said, I agree that Reese was in a difficult position that year because Tunsil basically messed up the first round for the Giants. If he had an otherwise good draft record, Reese could therefore be forgiven for taking Apple. But he doesn't.

I also agree that it's too early to make final judgments about Apple, especially since he'll likely be on the team next year.



hopefully not, lacks emotional intelligence as we are noticing. Some of these generational guys cannot accept it when someone calls them out for mistakes, since they were coddled like babies by their families and environment. We do not need another project like Flowers, deal him to SJW minded team.
You guys forget that this is a job or a profession. How many of you are "employer first" guys who would take whatever shit your employer dished out? How would you react if you had a total fool as your boss? How many of you would like to have an all-employee session where your mistakes or lack of effort were held up to ridicule for all the other employees?

This team is run like Kruger Industrial Smoothing and you all wonder why there a problems.
Apple was a reach. Flowers was a reach  
Jimmy Googs : 11/26/2017 3:17 pm : link
and even Engram was a reach.

Not that they all don't have reasonable talents but they certainly don't need to be picked so much further up in the draft JUST because Giants are desperate at certain positions.

We are the opposite of letting the draft come to us...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Reese  
section125 : 11/26/2017 5:23 pm : link
In comment 13705604 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 13705546 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 13705517 AcidTest said:


Quote:

It's Reese's responsibility, especially for top 10 picks. If you have any doubt, you take someone else.


Ok so you are criticizing the pick and saying to pick someone else. WHO? The brain trust on BBI will scream that that someone else is a reach. I don't like Apple's jaking, but he is upper 1st round talent and was likely the highest guy on their tier box, aside from Tunsil and no way Mara allows Tunsil after the pot video.

I think Jerry needs to go because there have been too many missed picks and FAs and coaching misses. But Apple is signed for 2 more years and has time to straighten out.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Reese  
mdc1 : 11/26/2017 6:58 pm : link
In comment 13705705 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 13705630 mdc1 said:


Quote:


In comment 13705604 AcidTest said:


Quote:


In comment 13705546 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 13705517 AcidTest said:


Quote:



It was Reese's responsibility to ensure that they would not be problematic, especially given where he was drafted. If you don't want to or can't trade down, then take someone else.



Yes because 20 year olds never mature and Reese has a crystal ball to tell him that Apple will never grow up.



It's Reese's responsibility, especially for top 10 picks. If you have any doubt, you take someone else.

But as I said, I agree that Reese was in a difficult position that year because Tunsil basically messed up the first round for the Giants. If he had an otherwise good draft record, Reese could therefore be forgiven for taking Apple. But he doesn't.

I also agree that it's too early to make final judgments about Apple, especially since he'll likely be on the team next year.



hopefully not, lacks emotional intelligence as we are noticing. Some of these generational guys cannot accept it when someone calls them out for mistakes, since they were coddled like babies by their families and environment. We do not need another project like Flowers, deal him to SJW minded team.

You guys forget that this is a job or a profession. How many of you are "employer first" guys who would take whatever shit your employer dished out? How would you react if you had a total fool as your boss? How many of you would like to have an all-employee session where your mistakes or lack of effort were held up to ridicule for all the other employees?

This team is run like Kruger Industrial Smoothing and you all wonder why there a problems.

wonder if you have ever been in a quarterly business review and you have your breakout on the financials and they detail your performance in front of your peers. What fucking world are you living in dude. Government?
RE: I'm at the point where I don't care who was drafted where  
EricJ : 11/26/2017 9:15 pm : link
In comment 13705678 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
The Giants need to bring in team first talent. This is why ND Guard Nelson needs to be our pick. The guys is an outstanding football player who loves the game. Our O line needs more passionate, team first football players with crap loads of talent.


I have no issue drafting Nelson but not with a top 5 pick.
RE: Apple caught on camera after the film session.  
djm : 11/26/2017 9:41 pm : link
In comment 13705327 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:


Lol!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Reese  
HomerJones45 : 11/26/2017 10:04 pm : link
In comment 13705907 mdc1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13705705 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


In comment 13705630 mdc1 said:


Quote:


In comment 13705604 AcidTest said:


Quote:


In comment 13705546 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 13705517 AcidTest said:


Quote:



It was Reese's responsibility to ensure that they would not be problematic, especially given where he was drafted. If you don't want to or can't trade down, then take someone else.



Yes because 20 year olds never mature and Reese has a crystal ball to tell him that Apple will never grow up.



It's Reese's responsibility, especially for top 10 picks. If you have any doubt, you take someone else.

But as I said, I agree that Reese was in a difficult position that year because Tunsil basically messed up the first round for the Giants. If he had an otherwise good draft record, Reese could therefore be forgiven for taking Apple. But he doesn't.

I also agree that it's too early to make final judgments about Apple, especially since he'll likely be on the team next year.



hopefully not, lacks emotional intelligence as we are noticing. Some of these generational guys cannot accept it when someone calls them out for mistakes, since they were coddled like babies by their families and environment. We do not need another project like Flowers, deal him to SJW minded team.

You guys forget that this is a job or a profession. How many of you are "employer first" guys who would take whatever shit your employer dished out? How would you react if you had a total fool as your boss? How many of you would like to have an all-employee session where your mistakes or lack of effort were held up to ridicule for all the other employees?

This team is run like Kruger Industrial Smoothing and you all wonder why there a problems.


wonder if you have ever been in a quarterly business review and you have your breakout on the financials and they detail your performance in front of your peers. What fucking world are you living in dude. Government?
One of Warren Buffet's companies, asshole, so yes.
Oh look  
Modus Operandi : 11/26/2017 11:38 pm : link
Another opportunity for mdc1 to hijack a thread so that he can rail against the snowflake generation, government and the pussification of America.

Yawn.
81GD was on target early in the thread  
JonC : 11/27/2017 7:30 am : link
Apple is very immature and is being taught a lesson, that he doesn't run the ship in any respect, and he'll need to grow up and get in line with the rest of the grown men. This is not uncommon for a 20-21 yr old kid from a huge college program being handed several million dollars per year before he really grasps his responsibilities as a pro.
Apple  
Dragon : 11/27/2017 10:40 am : link
Made two non effort plays and that’s why he is no longer a positive team member on the Giants. Eli has made how many dumb boneheaded plays but he is still the hope for the future at QB? Two other CB’s got suspended but they are still great team members? This team as a whole sucks on defense but one guy is being awarded the lack of effort award for two plays in ten games? Tell me he responded badly to criticism but the criticism should have been a hell of a lot more plays then two and only one player.
As much..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/27/2017 10:50 am : link
as Apple has been a problem, is anyone else tired hearing about this watershed video session?

If McAdoo has to wait for the team to be 1-7 to light into them on the film issues, there's something wrong at the top.

The film sessions should always be frank and honest, and they usually are for most teams. what the fuck had we been doing for film review?
RE: As much..  
Greg from LI : 11/27/2017 10:51 am : link
In comment 13706436 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
The film sessions should always be frank and honest, and they usually are for most teams. what the fuck had we been doing for film review?


Hosting screenings of Godot films. The Giants' foreign film program is second to none.
We should trade him - I'm sure we could get something in return  
PatersonPlank : 11/27/2017 10:52 am : link
after all he is a former 1st rounder. We need guys who want to play.
So now we realize our  
TMS : 11/27/2017 1:21 pm : link
2015 #9 pick was a bad move and our 2016 #10 pick was a bad move as well . We still have no OL protection for ELI after 7 years. We are heading for one of the worst seasons in Giant history. Do we need a major change at the top or not ?
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