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The cornerback taken with the 10th overall pick in the 2016 draft was so upset with pointed criticism directed at him by coaches and especially his teammates that not once, but twice, he nearly walked out of the team facility, seeking to get away from it all. What Ben McAdoo described as a “brutally honest’’ film review Nov. 15, three days after the horrific 31-21 loss to the previously winless 49ers, turned into a difficult session for Apple. He was critiqued more vociferously than any other player, a source with knowledge of the situation told The Post, and he did not handle it well at all. It was widely believed that veteran cornerback Janoris Jenkins was put through the ringer for his play in Santa Clara, but it was Apple who attracted the most heated and negative scrutiny. Two plays, in particular, irked his teammates as the evidence was displayed on the screen for all to see. On the first, Apple allowed himself to get blocked out of bounds and did not fight hard enough, or at all, to get back into the play. The second was the most egregious, with Apple and Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie serving as gunners on the punt coverage team. The film showed Rodgers-Cromartie, 31, fighting to defeat the blocking and get down the field. The film also showed Apple, 22, not fighting to do the same. Teammates lit into Apple for his lack of effort on these plays and he was so taken aback that on two separate occasions, he threatened to walk out of the team facility. He had a discussion with McAdoo, ultimately decided to stay in the building and participated in practice that afternoon. The next two days, Apple did not report to the team facility, as he was attending to his mother, who underwent successful brain surgery. McAdoo said the missed practice time was the reason Apple was not activated for the game against the Chiefs, which is true, but Apple’s mental state also played a part in his deactivation, according to a source. This week, with only two light practice days before the Thanksgiving night game in Landover, Md., McAdoo on a short work-week and with no real physical or mental reassurance Apple was ready, again determined Apple would be deactivated for the 20-10 loss to the Redskins. |
Apple needs to go, as do a lot of others. This team needs a new culture.
That's a problem the Giants probably can't solve.
and you know Collins and Snacks were all over him for that BS.
In reality, Ross Cockrell is a better NFL football player at this point.
Back in the anonymous source threads, there were a few BBI members that speculated that Apple was one of the culprits.
Yep...knew she'd be an annoyance (if that is true of course)
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Route 9 : 5/24/2016 4:29 am : link
There is reason there was a spike in Mrs. Apple Twitter followers after she said what she said. People obviously care about this kind of stuff for some reason. Also, I don’t see why it’s so surprising that people are becoming irritated Mrs Apple is becoming a mini-extravaganza. All of the articles I've seen posted by Facebook pages feel the same way, "stop trying to make her become a thing" ...I believe we're the words
If teammates do it, it is harder than the coaches.
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That Apple was feeding his mother, who was in turn blabbing to ESPN as an "anonymous source"
Yep...knew she'd be an annoyance (if that is true of course)
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Route 9 : 5/24/2016 4:29 am : link
There is reason there was a spike in Mrs. Apple Twitter followers after she said what she said. People obviously care about this kind of stuff for some reason. Also, I don’t see why it’s so surprising that people are becoming irritated Mrs Apple is becoming a mini-extravaganza. All of the articles I've seen posted by Facebook pages feel the same way, "stop trying to make her become a thing" ...I believe we're the words
I remember a few of us getting killed on here for pointing out that she would become an issue
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I remember a few of us getting killed on here for pointing out that she would become an issue
Masterful.....
lol, guess he does not fit in with this group of men.
It obviously earned a deletion the first time but between you and me, I'll repeat what I said to you last time.
When you lose your mother, maybe you'll grow a heart.
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be able to earn a jersey unless he still has to keep vigil for his mother.
It obviously earned a deletion the first time but between you and me, I'll repeat what I said to you last time.
When you lose your mother, maybe you'll grow a heart.
I did. 6.12.16. She lived with me when everyone else in the family left her alone. She lived with me in St. Augustine for 10 years before she didn't wake up one morning. I'm still haunted by the robotic voice of the AED device barking out instructions to the paramedics as they tried to revive her.
So GO FUCK YOURSELF.
Actually, it can materialize out of nowhere. For an example see pepper Johnson and others who basically led an on and off the field revolt against rod rust/ handley in 1992. Was pepper a bad character player? Or was he just fed up with incompetent leadership?
Now, this apple thing is diffenrent, but it stems from a similar place in my view.
Sometimes the player is right - ( New Window )
If you’ve been paying attention, Apple WAS NOT singled out in that video session. Jackrabbit was hammered too, among many others. Apple may have gotten more ridicule, but he absolutely deserved it and I’m not sure how you come away from all of the reports regarding that meeting thinking Apple was singled out. Is it because this one article is discussing him? There have been many others that have come out about that meeting too...
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In comment 13704890 Diver_Down said:
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be able to earn a jersey unless he still has to keep vigil for his mother.
It obviously earned a deletion the first time but between you and me, I'll repeat what I said to you last time.
When you lose your mother, maybe you'll grow a heart.
I did. 6.12.16. She lived with me when everyone else in the family left her alone. She lived with me in St. Augustine for 10 years before she didn't wake up one morning. I'm still haunted by the robotic voice of the AED device barking out instructions to the paramedics as they tried to revive her.
So GO FUCK YOURSELF.
You'd think you'd have a little sympathy for a young man that is probably terrified of experiencing what you (and I) went through. These are real human beings. Don't you think that might put him on edge? Did you not find yourself more irritable and anxious as you dealt with the fear of losing your mother?
I just don't understand what makes you take such an insensitive position on this, particularly if you relate to what he's afraid of.
This is bigger or deeper than that.
the Giants usually stay away from talented pampered players
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I’m glad they are sharing, but isn’t that a problem too? Singling Apple out after that team wide disaster was a poor choice by a coach that should know his players. The other players would have taken care of the situation if McAdoo knew how to use a locker room.
If you’ve been paying attention, Apple WAS NOT singled out in that video session. Jackrabbit was hammered too, among many others. Apple may have gotten more ridicule, but he absolutely deserved it and I’m not sure how you come away from all of the reports regarding that meeting thinking Apple was singled out. Is it because this one article is discussing him? There have been many others that have come out about that meeting too...
All players need to be treated differently depending on their personalities, position within the hierarchy of the team, personal situations, etc... It is the art of coaching. It is what BP excelled at. What TC learned after being told to change or else. “More ridicule”, for a kid like Apple was probably not a smart coaching move.
Putting Apple in the same sentence as Flowers is an insult to Flowers. At least Flowers cares, took all the criticism like a man and has worked his ass off to get better. Apple and his mom have been assholes since day 1.
And yes, it was a red flag on the college reports.
See ya, kid.
I'd hate to think they did no character report on this guy before drafting him, but a spoiled, pampered, immature person is hard to miss.
When we go back to one of the knocks on him coming out of Ohio State that he didn't know how to cook for himself and we laughed at it. Reading between the lines, that meant "immature" and "momma's boy".
This whole season has been a shitshow from the word go. The moment Odell got hurt in Cleveland on down. Just end this mess and start fresh on January 1.
Major mistake drafting him. As Sy said there were red flags on his character coming out of Ohio State.
he has a close relationship with mom....and brain surgery sound serious....so i am sure it all started cave in on him
i am giving him more time to step up
The product will suffer because they only care about making Big Cash like a bunch of Mafia Dons.
Ogden,Hardy, and Rice are gone - unprepared panic pick
Bust in every way imaginable.
When he got into the real world and didn t like how the coach was treating him he did what he always did. Run to his Mommy and try to get her to fix it.
No disrespect to her surgery that is a legitimate concern and thank God it went well.
But if he leaked through his Mom to the media that is pathetic.
When he got into the real world and didn t like how the coach was treating him he did what he always did. Run to his Mommy and try to get her to fix it.
No disrespect to her surgery that is a legitimate concern and thank God it went well.
But if he leaked through his Mom to the media that is pathetic.
Once again I will quote Bill parcells in how he dealt with players:
And another one:
I can't imagine what Eli Apple has been going through from a personal standpoint in dealing with his mom.
Some of the posts here make me sick!! Names get thrown out as to who is the blame for what with no regard for any truth at all. Just wild speculation to raise the vitriol.
Ever stop to think that maybe Annie Apple has more pressing matters to attend to than keeping conversations with the media?? Outside of when Apple was drafted, where has his mom been an issue? When has she spoken badly about anyone in the organization?
Once again I will quote Bill parcells in how he dealt with players:
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I don’t believe in consistency as it relates to handling players. I believe in being right for each guy. I tried to do my best to understand what a particular player needed to be pushed to do his best. I felt an obligatory responsibility to give the players what they needed for the best chance to win.”
McAdoo has said the same exact thing...
I'm very consistent, I'm going to treat everyone differently. The way that they need to be treated to get the most out of 'em is the way we have to operate.
I guess it's all in the execution!
FIRE REESE NOW!
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Issues with DRC, Jenkins and now Apple. The main theme I see here as I have seen all this year is mcadoo failure to understand his players and communicate. Every player is different, they have different temperaments. It is a coach's job to know what buttons to push and when to push them.
Once again I will quote Bill parcells in how he dealt with players:
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I don’t believe in consistency as it relates to handling players. I believe in being right for each guy. I tried to do my best to understand what a particular player needed to be pushed to do his best. I felt an obligatory responsibility to give the players what they needed for the best chance to win.”
McAdoo has said the same exact thing...
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I'm very consistent, I'm going to treat everyone differently. The way that they need to be treated to get the most out of 'em is the way we have to operate.
I guess it's all in the execution!
A direct quote from mcadoo following the 49ers game....
Either mcadoo does not know how to motivate his players or he doesn't believe that it's part of his responsibilities, either way it is an indictment on him. Ben mcadoo is a big reason why this team is where it is, but let's blame the players, the parents and anyone else we find convenient.
This may not be ON him, but mcadoo sure as shit hasn't helped matters. That we can all be certain of.
Yep. It’s a passing league so the Giants need to invest a premium pick in a number 3 corner. Meanwhile the OL doesn’t have a single reliable above average starter.
How the hell is this not on mcadoo? This is not one player, one position group, or even one unit. This is the whole Damn team!!! and oh by the way, the one area that mcadoo was hired for (offense) has been the worse of all aspects of the team since he was hired, but no this isn't on mcadoo. It's the players and the parents. What a joke
No one is defending him Aa a coach
And yes, it was a red flag on the college reports.
See ya, kid.
KNOWN Attitude AND holding issues. And STILL drafted?
Note to Giants FO:
YOU CAN'T TEACH 'HEART'!!!
As someone said, Another reason Reese has to go.
Laid back lifestyle.
Even better: trade to Cleveland or Cincy, he can be close to mom. Take a 2nd or 3rd(Cincy loves those guys with 'tude issues).
All of a sudden Apple gets benched and the defense has two of its best games all season.
Coincidence?
Â
If an actor has a bad performance, it's usually his fault. If the entire cast has a bad performance, it's the director's fault. This didn't suddenly go from a talent-laden team to a bunch of scrubs. If McAdoo can't do better than 2-8 with this roster, he shouldn't be the Giants coach. The attempt at playing tough guy has come way too late and seems to have done more harm than good.
And yes, it was a red flag on the college reports.
See ya, kid.
Reese loves to pick DBs early. Thompson look like shit too.
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This is on Apple. Seems like he can't take criticism. Oh, and guess what? When he has been out there this season, he's been an absolute disgrace.
How the hell is this not on mcadoo? This is not one player, one position group, or even one unit. This is the whole Damn team!!! and oh by the way, the one area that mcadoo was hired for (offense) has been the worse of all aspects of the team since he was hired, but no this isn't on mcadoo. It's the players and the parents. What a joke
The situation with Apple is on Apple because he's a millennial geek that apparently can't take criticism when he's been fucking up all season long. That's on him. He's starting to become a cancer to this team and locker room.
Heck, I'd blame Jerry Reese infinitely more than the coach because we're consistently seeing that lack of maturity is an issue with drafting such young players.
Let's hope for intense professional effort.
He got a strong dose of reality smacked in his face. He struggled handling it. Time for his agent to have a talk with him.
He needs to get back on the bike and try again. Hopefully he'll grow up some.
If you can't get this kid's head right before the draft - cut bait, trade for what you can. But, I wouldn't write him off just yet. Clearly, he has maturity and heart issues - but maybe someone can get to him and salvage some pretty decent athletic ability.
Holding and CBs should be an off-limits discussion. PI at both the pro and college levels is subject to no objective standard. There are CBs who are never called as long as they get their head around which may be all the stupid reffing crews can handle. Likewise, many receivers sole means of creating separation is the arm push off and they are also never called unless the they actually manage to grab jersey.
Rules and enforcement relating to the passing game are an absolute unenforceable mess right now. I would give all CBs a pass right now until there is an objective standard to teach that does not competitively disadvantage them.
But Apple's character concerns were known before the draft, along with his tendency to grab, and difficulty finding the ball in the air. Reese should have accepted a trade down, even if he didn't get "full value" for the pick.
Apple right now wouldn't net more than a day three pick in a trade.
But Apple's character concerns were known before the draft, along with his tendency to grab, and difficulty finding the ball in the air. Reese should have accepted a trade down, even if he didn't get "full value" for the pick.
Apple right now wouldn't net more than a day three pick in a trade.
Yeah, that makes sense. Trade down for less than full value and not draft a kid ranked in the top 2 or 3 CBs in the draft.
Screw the grabbing - watch Jackrabbit and Sherman play.
He isn't a stupid kid. Maybe highly sensitive, but not stupid. He seems to be a whiner, but give the kid another year to toughen up. The other players will work on him and he may get serious next year or even later this year. He'll have to play with Jackrabbit out and Deayon with a broken arm. 5 more games to evaluate and persuade. See how it goes.
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was in a difficult position that year. The Titans and Bears gave up a lot to move up for Conklin and Floyd. I also don't blame Reese for not taking Tunsil. Not after Will Hill.
But Apple's character concerns were known before the draft, along with his tendency to grab, and difficulty finding the ball in the air. Reese should have accepted a trade down, even if he didn't get "full value" for the pick.
Apple right now wouldn't net more than a day three pick in a trade.
Yeah, that makes sense. Trade down for less than full value and not draft a kid ranked in the top 2 or 3 CBs in the draft.
Screw the grabbing - watch Jackrabbit and Sherman play.
He isn't a stupid kid. Maybe highly sensitive, but not stupid. He seems to be a whiner, but give the kid another year to toughen up. The other players will work on him and he may get serious next year or even later this year. He'll have to play with Jackrabbit out and Deayon with a broken arm. 5 more games to evaluate and persuade. See how it goes.
I agree we need to see what he has the rest of the year, and that he'll likely be on the team next year because of his low trade value, the impending departure of DRC, and our needs at other positions. But his character concerns were known before the draft. It was Reese's responsibility to ensure that they would not be problematic, especially given where he was drafted. If you don't want to or can't trade down, then take someone else.
Apple isn't going anywhere. He's got #1 pick talent (presumably) and we need him to play. Hopefully GM Jr and Forrest Gump surprise everyone and actually get a professional football coach in here this time to straighten out the mess along with a GM that knows what he is doing. The rest is just a sideshow at this point.
Apple isn't going anywhere. He's got #1 pick talent (presumably) and we need him to play. Hopefully GM Jr and Forrest Gump surprise everyone and actually get a professional football coach in here this time to straighten out the mess along with a GM that knows what he is doing. The rest is just a sideshow at this point.
Love the Chi-Com reference. I think the last time I heard that I was watching John Wayne in the Green Berets.
It was Reese's responsibility to ensure that they would not be problematic, especially given where he was drafted. If you don't want to or can't trade down, then take someone else.
Yes because 20 year olds never mature and Reese has a crystal ball to tell him that Apple will never grow up.
He has blown high picks on secondary players? Terrell Thomas, Aaron Ross, Kenny Phillips, Landon Collins, and Prince Amukamara were/are bad players? The truth is the Giants don't make it to SB 42 without Ross.
link - ( New Window )
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It was Reese's responsibility to ensure that they would not be problematic, especially given where he was drafted. If you don't want to or can't trade down, then take someone else.
Yes because 20 year olds never mature and Reese has a crystal ball to tell him that Apple will never grow up.
It's Reese's responsibility, especially for top 10 picks. If you have any doubt, you take someone else.
But as I said, I agree that Reese was in a difficult position that year because Tunsil basically messed up the first round for the Giants. If he had an otherwise good draft record, Reese could therefore be forgiven for taking Apple. But he doesn't.
I also agree that it's too early to make final judgments about Apple, especially since he'll likely be on the team next year.
I recall reading an article a few years back about the early beginnings of taking immature adults (HS and early college jump) in the NBA. Some funny shit, guys were eating popeyes/fast food everynight on the road, would show up without a suit, fined and their mentor would drop by their room to check in on them and they would have 5 or more expensive suits lying on the floor not knowing what a fucking dry cleaners is. Hopefully he is not the victim of a helicopter mom. Hopefully he is not rudderless without his mom as she faces health issues.
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In comment 13705517 AcidTest said:
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It was Reese's responsibility to ensure that they would not be problematic, especially given where he was drafted. If you don't want to or can't trade down, then take someone else.
Yes because 20 year olds never mature and Reese has a crystal ball to tell him that Apple will never grow up.
It's Reese's responsibility, especially for top 10 picks. If you have any doubt, you take someone else.
But as I said, I agree that Reese was in a difficult position that year because Tunsil basically messed up the first round for the Giants. If he had an otherwise good draft record, Reese could therefore be forgiven for taking Apple. But he doesn't.
I also agree that it's too early to make final judgments about Apple, especially since he'll likely be on the team next year.
hopefully not, lacks emotional intelligence as we are noticing. Some of these generational guys cannot accept it when someone calls them out for mistakes, since they were coddled like babies by their families and environment. We do not need another project like Flowers, deal him to SJW minded team.
Be it Vernon, Apple, Jenkins, DRC, JPP and OBJ.
The culture in the NFL is a complete shit show. The Giants need to bring in team first talent. This is why ND Guard Nelson needs to be our pick. The guys is an outstanding football player who loves the game. Our O line needs more passionate, team first football players with crap loads of talent.
Done with the jerks that only think of themselves.
Plus drafting these young guys is starting to be detrimental. They are soft and immature. I'll take a Senior over these 20 year old players with upside.
Reese's formula is in need of a change
Schwartz is just the messenger, you have 2 eyes and a brain and can see Apple on field.
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In comment 13705546 section125 said:
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In comment 13705517 AcidTest said:
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It was Reese's responsibility to ensure that they would not be problematic, especially given where he was drafted. If you don't want to or can't trade down, then take someone else.
Yes because 20 year olds never mature and Reese has a crystal ball to tell him that Apple will never grow up.
It's Reese's responsibility, especially for top 10 picks. If you have any doubt, you take someone else.
But as I said, I agree that Reese was in a difficult position that year because Tunsil basically messed up the first round for the Giants. If he had an otherwise good draft record, Reese could therefore be forgiven for taking Apple. But he doesn't.
I also agree that it's too early to make final judgments about Apple, especially since he'll likely be on the team next year.
hopefully not, lacks emotional intelligence as we are noticing. Some of these generational guys cannot accept it when someone calls them out for mistakes, since they were coddled like babies by their families and environment. We do not need another project like Flowers, deal him to SJW minded team.
This team is run like Kruger Industrial Smoothing and you all wonder why there a problems.
Not that they all don't have reasonable talents but they certainly don't need to be picked so much further up in the draft JUST because Giants are desperate at certain positions.
We are the opposite of letting the draft come to us...
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In comment 13705517 AcidTest said:
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It's Reese's responsibility, especially for top 10 picks. If you have any doubt, you take someone else.
Ok so you are criticizing the pick and saying to pick someone else. WHO? The brain trust on BBI will scream that that someone else is a reach. I don't like Apple's jaking, but he is upper 1st round talent and was likely the highest guy on their tier box, aside from Tunsil and no way Mara allows Tunsil after the pot video.
I think Jerry needs to go because there have been too many missed picks and FAs and coaching misses. But Apple is signed for 2 more years and has time to straighten out.
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In comment 13705604 AcidTest said:
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In comment 13705546 section125 said:
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In comment 13705517 AcidTest said:
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It was Reese's responsibility to ensure that they would not be problematic, especially given where he was drafted. If you don't want to or can't trade down, then take someone else.
Yes because 20 year olds never mature and Reese has a crystal ball to tell him that Apple will never grow up.
It's Reese's responsibility, especially for top 10 picks. If you have any doubt, you take someone else.
But as I said, I agree that Reese was in a difficult position that year because Tunsil basically messed up the first round for the Giants. If he had an otherwise good draft record, Reese could therefore be forgiven for taking Apple. But he doesn't.
I also agree that it's too early to make final judgments about Apple, especially since he'll likely be on the team next year.
hopefully not, lacks emotional intelligence as we are noticing. Some of these generational guys cannot accept it when someone calls them out for mistakes, since they were coddled like babies by their families and environment. We do not need another project like Flowers, deal him to SJW minded team.
You guys forget that this is a job or a profession. How many of you are "employer first" guys who would take whatever shit your employer dished out? How would you react if you had a total fool as your boss? How many of you would like to have an all-employee session where your mistakes or lack of effort were held up to ridicule for all the other employees?
This team is run like Kruger Industrial Smoothing and you all wonder why there a problems.
wonder if you have ever been in a quarterly business review and you have your breakout on the financials and they detail your performance in front of your peers. What fucking world are you living in dude. Government?
I have no issue drafting Nelson but not with a top 5 pick.
Lol!
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In comment 13705630 mdc1 said:
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In comment 13705604 AcidTest said:
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In comment 13705546 section125 said:
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In comment 13705517 AcidTest said:
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It was Reese's responsibility to ensure that they would not be problematic, especially given where he was drafted. If you don't want to or can't trade down, then take someone else.
Yes because 20 year olds never mature and Reese has a crystal ball to tell him that Apple will never grow up.
It's Reese's responsibility, especially for top 10 picks. If you have any doubt, you take someone else.
But as I said, I agree that Reese was in a difficult position that year because Tunsil basically messed up the first round for the Giants. If he had an otherwise good draft record, Reese could therefore be forgiven for taking Apple. But he doesn't.
I also agree that it's too early to make final judgments about Apple, especially since he'll likely be on the team next year.
hopefully not, lacks emotional intelligence as we are noticing. Some of these generational guys cannot accept it when someone calls them out for mistakes, since they were coddled like babies by their families and environment. We do not need another project like Flowers, deal him to SJW minded team.
You guys forget that this is a job or a profession. How many of you are "employer first" guys who would take whatever shit your employer dished out? How would you react if you had a total fool as your boss? How many of you would like to have an all-employee session where your mistakes or lack of effort were held up to ridicule for all the other employees?
This team is run like Kruger Industrial Smoothing and you all wonder why there a problems.
wonder if you have ever been in a quarterly business review and you have your breakout on the financials and they detail your performance in front of your peers. What fucking world are you living in dude. Government?
Yawn.
If McAdoo has to wait for the team to be 1-7 to light into them on the film issues, there's something wrong at the top.
The film sessions should always be frank and honest, and they usually are for most teams. what the fuck had we been doing for film review?
Hosting screenings of Godot films. The Giants' foreign film program is second to none.