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Wednesday Media Transcript: John Mara

Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/29/2017 5:39 pm
President and Chief Executive Officer John K. Mara

November 29, 2017

Opening Statement: Iím not going to make any statements. Letís just get ahead with the questions.

Q: How on board were you with this decision and how involved were you?

A: I had had a conversation with Jerry (Reese) a week or two ago about Ė and I normally donít speak to the coach directly about which players are playing and which players are not playing. Iíll have the conversation with Jerry. I mentioned to him a week or two ago Ė Ďdonít you think itís time that we start to get a look at these other quarterbacks at some point during the gamesí and he agreed. Said he had already had a conversation with Ben (McAdoo) about that. Jerry called me on Monday afternoon, I was at a family function in Virginia, to tell me that Ben was going to be speaking to Eli to let him know that he was going to continue to start the game. Heís going to start the game on Sunday, but that at some point Geno (Smith) would come into the game. Tuesday morning, Jerry called me and said that Eli had informed Ben that Ďif youíre going to play Geno in the second half, you may as well just start him. Itís not fair to him. Itís not fair to me and I think that would be the best decision going forward.í And, he also wanted us to put out a statement announcing that. So, thatís what we did.

Q: Are you taken aback by the uproar that followed?

A: Yes and no. Yes and no. I mean, I expected there to be an emotional reaction from fans. I would say itís been a little excessive maybe than what I expected. But given what he has meant to our franchise and to so many people for so long, itís understandable.

Q: Do you think some of that excess reaction is because itís from Eli Manning to Geno Smith instead of Eli to Davis Webb?

A: That may be true with a few people, but I think for the most part Ė I think it would have been that reaction with Eli to anybody.

Q: Are you viewing this as the end of Eli?

A: No. Iím not. I donít think we should be writing his obituary just yet. A lot of things can change between now and next spring and next season and the reality is we have some tough decisions to make at the end of the year and who knows whatís going to happen.

Q: Have you talked to Eli?

A: Yes. I met with him this morning and had a good talk with him. It was a very emotional talk and he is obviously not happy with the decision, but he understands it and I told him Ė I said, my hope here had been that you were going to continue to play, not only to keep your streak alive, but because I was hoping Ė I didnít want him to go out like this. But, I understand. I understand his feeling. I respect his decision. He doesnít want the streak to be tarnished by just getting in for a few series or something. But, I was hoping that heíd come in, heíd play, heíd be playing well, weíd have a chance to win the game and maybe stay in there or something. But, he understands that at some point we have to look at the other quarterbacks because heís not going to play forever.

Q: Do you think your talk with Jerry Reese got the momentum started?

A: No. I think he had already been thinking about that and had been thinking about that for a few weeks anyway. That was my impression.

Q: Since youíve been so close with Eli Manning for so long, there has been speculation that you werenít on board with this, but it seems like the complete opposite.

A: Thatís not true Ė again, I was hoping it would turn out a little differently, that he would continue to play some portion of the games, but at some point we would work in the other quarterbacks. But, you know, he didnít want to do it that way and I understand that and I respect him so much and Iím not going to argue with him on that.

Q: Was the talk with Eli Manning today emotional for you, too?

A: Both of us.

Q: Your dad and this franchise have been very close to Eli Manning. Does that weigh on you on a day like this?

A: It does. It does. I mean, heís a special Ė not only a special player but a special person and when you see him get that emotional, itís tough. The thing about him is, you know, to a lot of players this is just another team and another franchise, but to him it means something to be a New York Giant and thatís what makes this so much tougher.

Q: Do you think he will waive his no-trade clause?

A: I have no idea. We didnít discuss that. We didnít discuss it. We donít know whatís going to happen at the end of the season or next year.

Q: He didnít express to you a desire to play somewhere else?

A: No.

Q: What do you say to fans that are saying you mishandled the situation and that youíre embarrassing him and not treating him appropriately?

A: I understand they feel that way, but Iíve been around long enough to know that when you get to a decision like this, thereís no completely clean way to handle it. And, again, it was not the way we hoped it would turn out. I was hoping that he would continue to play and then weíd work out at what point the other quarterbacks go into the game. It just didnít work out that way and once I heard that, I knew what was coming.

Q: How much do you want to see the other quarterbacks to get a handle on if you need to take a quarterback?

A: I donít know if this is going to give us all the information we need, but itís going to be better than nothing. Itís better than just watching them run scout team out there every day. With quarterbacks in particular, you donít know what you have until theyíre out there facing a pass rush, making decisions at critical points in the game and making plays. So we want to get whatever information we can, but obviously weíre going to have a high draft pick this year and there are going to be some quarterbacks available. So thatís going to be a decision that weíre going to have to make, but Iíd like to make that decision at least having watched some of these guys play.

Q: Is it fair to say that Davis Webb isnít ready, so Geno Smith is sort of the bridge to Davis?

A: Well, letís see what happens. I mean, Geno has been the number two all year long. Davis has just been running scout team. Geno has at least had some reps with the first unit and he has more experience. I think it was a natural move. I will tell you that Davis should play at some point and when that is Ė I donít like to interfere with those things. Iíd like the coach to make that decision. But, I think he knows what our feeling is.

Q: Is there a better way to do this than yanking Eli Manning out at half?

A: There probably is. Tell me what it is. I donít know. I mean, I didnít necessarily think it had to be at the half. I think if heís playing well in the first half, weíre winning the game, it looks like weíve got a chance, the offense is clicking, I would argue then keep him in the game. But, having him definitively come out at the end of the first half Ė I can understand why he would object.

Q: Was it presented properly?

A: Well, it was presented the way that Ben thought it ought to be presented and could we have done it differently? I guess you could argue we could have. Yes. The point was we did not want him on the bench. We wanted him to start the game and play some portion of the game and at some point work the other guys in. Again, it was his decision, which I completely respect, to go with.

Q: So, it wasnít just a nominal thing to keep the streak alive?

A: No. I would not have been in favor of just playing him a series or something like that. Heís got to play a meaningful part of the game, whether that was half or three quarters or whatever Ė thatís for discussion.

Q: If there comes a situation where Eli just isnít happy with what the result isÖ

A: I donít want to speculate on that. I have so much respect for him that obviously I would take that into consideration, but thatís a conversation for another day.

Q: Are you committing to Head Coach Ben McAdoo and General Manager Jerry Reese going forward?

A: Iím not going to address their job status. We obviously have some decisions to make in the offseason.

Q: If you could go back and do something different with your decision making in this situation, would you?

A: At the time, yeah, it could have been a little different. I wish I could have been here when that was all going down. But what I did not expect, and this is my fault, I was probably naÔve, I did not expect Eli to react by saying, ĎGo ahead and start the other guys.í And again, especially after speaking to him today, I completely understand that. But that took me by surprise a little bit and, yeah, maybe I would have handled that a little bit different.

Q: Everything you know about Manning, why do you think the plan you presented him with would have been attractive to him?

A: After talking to him today, I understand why it wasnít. Heís a competitor and he wants to be out there playing, he wants to be out there trying to win and thatís why heís been so successful for so many years.

Q: When Manning left your office, what were your parting words to him?

A: I just thanked him for, as always, handling this in a classy manner and thanked him for everything that heís done for us. Who knows what the future is going to bring? He can get into the game on Sunday, you just donít know. Any quarterback, any player at any position, is just one snap away from getting into the game.

Q: Did you tell Manning that you still want him to be a Giant for life?

A: I didnít tell him that in so many words, but I think he knows that. And Iíve said that to him before.

Q: If you were to present the idea to Manning as he will play until the game gets out of hand and then you will play Geno Smith or Davis Webb to finish it up, do you think his reaction would have been different?

A: Iím not sure, youíd have to ask him that. Again, if weíre going to get a look at these quarterbacks, we have five games left to do that and youíd like them to get in for some meaningful minutes. Theyíre not just in a mop up role with three minutes to go in the fourth quarter.

Q: Are you acknowledging that you have decisions to make on McAdoo and Reese after the end season?

A: Well, you have decisions to make every year on people after the season.

Q: You didnít have to make a decision on McAdoo after last season, right?

A: Well, you always have decisions to make, yeah. I just saw three baseball managers get fired after making the playoffs. So, you always have those decisions to make.

Q: What have you thought of the job McAdoo has done this year?

A: Weíre 2-9. Weíre 2-9, okay? Iím embarrassed about that. Nobodyís doing a good job.

Q: Is there a concern that when you take Manning out, it sends a message to the team that you are not trying to win?

A: Well, thatís not the case. Again, weíre 2-9. Weíre still going to try to win the games. I read something somewhere about, are we going to tank the rest of the season? Thatís complete bullshit. I would never allow that here. Weíre going to try to win the games. Weíre just going to have to try to do it with a different guy at quarterback.

Q: How can you tell your fans that Geno Smith and Davis Webb give you a better chance to win than Eli Manning?

A: Weíll have to find out. Weíre 2-9, weíll have to find out whether they give us a better chance of winning. Let them play and see.

Q: Years ago, you had a situation when Ray Handley was the head coach with Phil Simms and Jeff Hostetler as quarterbacks and he presented an idea of a platoon system. Did any of that flash back to you?

A: No, no. I block that out of my memory [laughs].

Q: Do you think Manning will be starting in the NFL next year?

A: I think so.

Q: Do you think Manning can still be successful in this league?

A: I think he can still win in the NFL, yes. And I hope itís here, but thatíll be a discussion for the offseason.

Q: Would it be fair to say that if the teamís record was 9-2, we wouldnít be having this conversation?

A: Yes. Absolutely it would be.

Q: Do you think that part of the reason this decision was received so poorly and emotionally by fans is because of how McAdoo presented it, both to Manning and the public?

A: Iím not sure that that makes any difference, to be honest with you. I think Eli has such respect from our fans and thereís so much love and affection for him and appreciation for what heís done. I think the manner in which it was presented, I donít think it made any difference whatsoever.

Q: Could McAdoo have presented the decision more delicately, or more compassionately?

A: I suppose he could have. I donít think thatís necessarily his strength, but I suppose he could have. Again, at the end of the day, does it really make any difference? The fact of the matter is itís a major decision for this franchise and with a beloved figure, people are not going to like it.

Q: When it came back to you that Manning said that he would rather have Smith or Webb play, did you pump the breaks a little bit and reconsider?

A: I did, I did have some pause, but then having talked with Jerry about it and accepted the fact that Eli had slept on it overnight and had time to think about it. He and I texted each other, I wanted to talk to him over the phone, but he preferred to do it face to face because I couldnít get here until today. So yeah, it did give me some pause, but once I realized that he had slept on it overnight and that was his decision, we went ahead with it.

Q: Were you at compensation committee meetings?

A: That and other committee meetings, yes. Yesterday and today.

Q: Is Ben McAdooís job considered secure for the rest of the year? Have you guaranteed that to him?

A: Thereís no guarantees in life. (We) made (our) statement on that a couple of weeks ago, but thereís no guarantees in life.

Q: Is it fair to say youíve gotten a lot of feedback from fans already?

A: Yes [laughs]. Itís fair to say Iíve gotten a lot of feedback from fans and theyíre not happy and I accept that.

Q: What would you say to unhappy fans?

A: I accept the fact that weíre 2-9, weíre completely defenseless when you have a record like that, particularly when the expectations were so high and itís up to us to fix that going forward. But one of the things that we have to do is try to find out whether one of these two guys can be a quarterback for us in the future. I donít know if weíll have an answer to that by the end of the season, but we werenít going to have an answer unless we got them in a game.

Q: Back in 1994 when Phil Simms was released, your father said something like, ĎA day of overwhelming sadnessí. Does this have that same feeling?

A: Itís not quite the same, in the sense that Phil was being released and thatís not the case here.

Q: Is this as tough a couple days that youíve had as owner?

A: Yeah, I would say so. Itís been a tough year, to be honest with you.
What a spineless coward  
Nitro : 11/29/2017 6:03 pm : link
This is his Ďmoving the colts to Indyí moment. Howís that for that for hyperbole. Greg you ever present bore?
What a  
RottenApple : 11/29/2017 6:05 pm : link
Pussyboy.
Interesting that he explicitly criticized Mac for his lack of compass-  
adamg : 11/29/2017 6:06 pm : link
ion.

If anything it sounds like Mac has a lesser chance of Eli of being on the team next year. Reese sounds like the most secured spot, and even that doesn't sound iron clad.

This will be a hell of an offseason.
Iím definitely in the minority on this  
bigbluehoya : 11/29/2017 6:13 pm : link
But I donít have a problem with any of what Mara said today.

I still donít like the way it was handled, but I donít read this and take away ďspinelessĒ or ďcowardĒ or a bunch of the other things that people are gleaning from this.

I think Mara has made more bad decisions than good in the recent past, but I personally donít think heís done anything that puts his character into question. Just my opinion.
RE: Iím definitely in the minority on this  
adamg : 11/29/2017 6:19 pm : link
In comment 13713123 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
But I donít have a problem with any of what Mara said today.

I still donít like the way it was handled, but I donít read this and take away ďspinelessĒ or ďcowardĒ or a bunch of the other things that people are gleaning from this.

I think Mara has made more bad decisions than good in the recent past, but I personally donít think heís done anything that puts his character into question. Just my opinion.


I agree. I can see why people reacted so emotionally, but it stands to reason that playing Webb was something that only makes sense in a season like this. It sounds like Mac is really just a giant douche bag who doesn't know how to manage people and set things up in a way that Eli was insulted. Mac sealed his fate this week imo.
I also agree  
ron mexico : 11/29/2017 6:34 pm : link
I think he handled that honestly and as best as he could have.
RE: Iím definitely in the minority on this  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 11/29/2017 6:35 pm : link
In comment 13713123 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
But I donít have a problem with any of what Mara said today.

I still donít like the way it was handled, but I donít read this and take away ďspinelessĒ or ďcowardĒ or a bunch of the other things that people are gleaning from this.

I think Mara has made more bad decisions than good in the recent past, but I personally donít think heís done anything that puts his character into question. Just my opinion.

I agree. But leaving the details to McAdoo was a huge mistake. McAdoo doesn't have a clue on how to deal with people. Which is a shitty ass trait in a coach.
.  
smshmth8690 : 11/29/2017 6:43 pm : link
Q: "Did you talk to Eli"

Part of the Answer: "I didnít want him to go out like this"

Kind of sums it up.
He's Completely, Utterly Wrong  
clatterbuck : 11/29/2017 7:06 pm : link
when he says he thinks the way the decision was handled didn't make a difference in fan reaction. And why didn't he have a conversation with Eli, get his reaction, on the half-assed plan to share playing time?
It's interesting...  
Dan in the Springs : 11/29/2017 7:07 pm : link
People who get their "facts" from tweets instead of viewing or reading the transcript are easily misled, imo. There is absolutely nothing wrong with how Mara or Reese handled this imo, other than perhaps letting Mara have the conversation first with Eli. That's hindsight though.

I truly believe that he wasn't expecting Eli to react the way he did. I think it's a clear sign of a rift between Eli and Coach McAdoo. (FWIW, I'm on Eli's side, although I consider his game to have diminished considerably)

A lot of people think that the Giants were intent on benching Eli and that the front office (BM and JR) are simply trying desperate moves to keep their jobs. I think cooler minds should prevail and see that the move was a part of a strategy done where the franchise still sees Eli as the number one QB, the starting QB of this team, but that they really want to get more info in preparation of the offseason and draft.

Lots of people have been upset that Geno is getting playing time. I think it makes sense. You aren't evaluating him as a starter. You're trying to determine if he's good enough to come into a game as a backup next year and manage the team should the starter go down for any length of time. If not, you don't attempt to resign him at all.

In Davis' case, you are trying to determine whether he's done enough to be the primary backup next year to Eli or to compete with a new draft pick for the starter job should Eli not remain with the team.

I think of Eli as classy, but I really wish he'd handled this differently. He could have clarified if he was still considered the starter. He could have asked the questions that were asked of Mara today - am I going to get a meaningless series or am I going to get significant playing time? If he knew he was going to start a half, or maybe even into the third quarter - that he might not even be pulled had it been a tight game with a chance to win, maybe he could have just accepted this and been fine with it.

All around, while many are upset, I'm perfectly fine with Mr. Mara and my status as a fan isn't impacted by this week's events one bit, even though it sucks that the Eli era appears to be winding down.
Starting to think the giants are gonna use this "high pick"  
ghost718 : 11/29/2017 7:07 pm : link
as an excuse to bring everyone back.

It starting to remind me of Irsay,and how he couldn't wait to move on from Peyton and draft Luck.

We'll see what happens.
I canít see them as evaluating Geno as a backup  
Bill L : 11/29/2017 7:13 pm : link
If Webb does not show he is the future, they draft a QB. Thatís pretty much a given anyway. They wonít cut Webb regardless so he is the guaranteed backup next year. Unless they jettison Eli. Thereís no scenario where Geno can be the backup so I think thatís just something they say to deflect.
No issues with what Mara said..  
Sean : 11/29/2017 7:13 pm : link
completely logical.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/29/2017 7:32 pm : link
Q: Years ago, you had a situation when Ray Handley was the head coach with Phil Simms and Jeff Hostetler as quarterbacks and he presented an idea of a platoon system. Did any of that flash back to you?

A: No, no. I block that out of my memory [laughs].

Fast forward 20 years and I think he'll be blocking this out too. I know I will.
RE: Starting to think the giants are gonna use this  
Dan in the Springs : 11/29/2017 7:35 pm : link
In comment 13713223 ghost718 said:
Quote:
as an excuse to bring everyone back.

It starting to remind me of Irsay,and how he couldn't wait to move on from Peyton and draft Luck.

We'll see what happens.


I really don't think so. Reading between the lines it's pretty clear that at least McAdoo's job is in serious jeopardy here, if not Reese's as well.

My guess is that McAdoo is fired within days of the end of the season and Reese comes back. I know that won't be a popular move, but that's my guess.

I have a really hard time seeing McAdoo return in any circumstances now, following the reaction of the fans at this point.
RE: RE: Starting to think the giants are gonna use this  
Bill L : 11/29/2017 7:37 pm : link
In comment 13713278 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 13713223 ghost718 said:


Quote:


as an excuse to bring everyone back.

It starting to remind me of Irsay,and how he couldn't wait to move on from Peyton and draft Luck.

We'll see what happens.



I really don't think so. Reading between the lines it's pretty clear that at least McAdoo's job is in serious jeopardy here, if not Reese's as well.

My guess is that McAdoo is fired within days of the end of the season and Reese comes back. I know that won't be a popular move, but that's my guess.

I have a really hard time seeing McAdoo return in any circumstances now, following the reaction of the fans at this point.
then we will k ow that his word is meaningless. He promised us that Reese would go.
RE: I canít see them as evaluating Geno as a backup  
Dan in the Springs : 11/29/2017 7:41 pm : link
In comment 13713233 Bill L said:
Quote:
If Webb does not show he is the future, they draft a QB. Thatís pretty much a given anyway. They wonít cut Webb regardless so he is the guaranteed backup next year. Unless they jettison Eli. Thereís no scenario where Geno can be the backup so I think thatís just something they say to deflect.


What if the QB they like best they think could use a year of prep first, like they planned for Webb this year? They would go with Eli as the starter, new QB as the #3, and let Smith and Webb fight for the backup job like the Smith/Johnson battle from this summer.

Why is that hard to imagine?
RE: RE: RE: Starting to think the giants are gonna use this  
Dan in the Springs : 11/29/2017 7:44 pm : link
In comment 13713285 Bill L said:
Quote:
then we will k ow that his word is meaningless. He promised us that Reese would go.


That's not exactly what he said. He publicly stated that the roster rebuild was all on Reese. He said at the time that he thought that Reese was the best man for the job. He said publicly that it was now all on Reese to get things turned around.

If he feels that Reese rebuilt the roster well but feels that McAdoo screwed things up on the team, he may still feel that Reese is the best guy to put together the roster. In the past I've considered Reese to be on the hot seat, but it's been pointed out to me that hiring McAdoo may have been an ownership call. If that's the case, it's possible that Reese is brought back.
I don't see either Reese or McAdoo returning.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/29/2017 7:49 pm : link
And if they do, it's going to be ugly.
RE: I don't see either Reese or McAdoo returning.  
FStubbs : 11/29/2017 8:11 pm : link
In comment 13713320 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
And if they do, it's going to be ugly.


I don't want Ross or Chris Mara back either.
RE: Iím definitely in the minority on this  
Bernie : 11/29/2017 8:12 pm : link
In comment 13713123 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
But I donít have a problem with any of what Mara said today.

I still donít like the way it was handled, but I donít read this and take away ďspinelessĒ or ďcowardĒ or a bunch of the other things that people are gleaning from this.

I think Mara has made more bad decisions than good in the recent past, but I personally donít think heís done anything that puts his character into question. Just my opinion.


Completely agree. I don't like the way it went down, but if everyone on this site is being honest, we all knew that Eli was probably not going to be here next year. That being the case and given where the Giants will be drafting, they need to get a read on Webb. This is not about Geno.
RE: RE: I canít see them as evaluating Geno as a backup  
Bill L : 11/29/2017 8:13 pm : link
In comment 13713293 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 13713233 Bill L said:


Quote:


If Webb does not show he is the future, they draft a QB. Thatís pretty much a given anyway. They wonít cut Webb regardless so he is the guaranteed backup next year. Unless they jettison Eli. Thereís no scenario where Geno can be the backup so I think thatís just something they say to deflect.



What if the QB they like best they think could use a year of prep first, like they planned for Webb this year? They would go with Eli as the starter, new QB as the #3, and let Smith and Webb fight for the backup job like the Smith/Johnson battle from this summer.

Why is that hard to imagine?
because even if he was a Reese pick, the new gm isnít going to cut a 2nd year, high draft pick. Theyíll go Eli, Webb, and the #1. More likely, it would be Eli, #1,Webb but either way it wonít be Smith.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Starting to think the giants are gonna use this  
Bill L : 11/29/2017 8:14 pm : link
In comment 13713299 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 13713285 Bill L said:


Quote:


then we will k ow that his word is meaningless. He promised us that Reese would go.



That's not exactly what he said. He publicly stated that the roster rebuild was all on Reese. He said at the time that he thought that Reese was the best man for the job. He said publicly that it was now all on Reese to get things turned around.

If he feels that Reese rebuilt the roster well but feels that McAdoo screwed things up on the team, he may still feel that Reese is the best guy to put together the roster. In the past I've considered Reese to be on the hot seat, but it's been pointed out to me that hiring McAdoo may have been an ownership call. If that's the case, it's possible that Reese is brought back.
people are going to look at the O-line as evidence of that rebuild.
McAdoo, one of the most callous figures  
BBelle21 : 11/29/2017 8:18 pm : link
Giants fans have ever seen, held empathy exercises this off season. Laughable and pointless like his offense. His phoniness is striking now, and leave it to Eli to be the one who ultimately exposed all of it.
RE: It's interesting...  
Rjanyg : 11/29/2017 8:21 pm : link
In comment 13713222 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
People who get their "facts" from tweets instead of viewing or reading the transcript are easily misled, imo. There is absolutely nothing wrong with how Mara or Reese handled this imo, other than perhaps letting Mara have the conversation first with Eli. That's hindsight though.

I truly believe that he wasn't expecting Eli to react the way he did. I think it's a clear sign of a rift between Eli and Coach McAdoo. (FWIW, I'm on Eli's side, although I consider his game to have diminished considerably)

A lot of people think that the Giants were intent on benching Eli and that the front office (BM and JR) are simply trying desperate moves to keep their jobs. I think cooler minds should prevail and see that the move was a part of a strategy done where the franchise still sees Eli as the number one QB, the starting QB of this team, but that they really want to get more info in preparation of the offseason and draft.

Lots of people have been upset that Geno is getting playing time. I think it makes sense. You aren't evaluating him as a starter. You're trying to determine if he's good enough to come into a game as a backup next year and manage the team should the starter go down for any length of time. If not, you don't attempt to resign him at all.

In Davis' case, you are trying to determine whether he's done enough to be the primary backup next year to Eli or to compete with a new draft pick for the starter job should Eli not remain with the team.

I think of Eli as classy, but I really wish he'd handled this differently. He could have clarified if he was still considered the starter. He could have asked the questions that were asked of Mara today - am I going to get a meaningless series or am I going to get significant playing time? If he knew he was going to start a half, or maybe even into the third quarter - that he might not even be pulled had it been a tight game with a chance to win, maybe he could have just accepted this and been fine with it.

All around, while many are upset, I'm perfectly fine with Mr. Mara and my status as a fan isn't impacted by this week's events one bit, even though it sucks that the Eli era appears to be winding down.


I kind of agree Dan. I think the whole idea of giving Eli a half of football sounds like a as much a suggestion as opposed to written in stone, Geno would come out and start the second half.

They should have just waited until games got out of hand, which they will and put the backups in.

IMO the Giants did a horrible job getting a read in Webb during the preseason. WTF were they thinking not playing Manning much and then overplaying Smith and Johnson, not getting Webb a whole half of football. Really piss poor preparation.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Starting to think the giants are gonna use this  
Dan in the Springs : 11/29/2017 8:25 pm : link
In comment 13713365 Bill L said:
Quote:
people are going to look at the O-line as evidence of that rebuild.


As they absolutely should, and it wouldn't surprise me if Reese loses his job over it. Just saying it could turn out that even though the OL hasn't been fixed entirely, that they feel the OL personnel was decent enough to put a competitive squad out there with better coaching.

I grant you that keeping Smith over Webb next year is a longshot at best. Having said that they will 100% bring in a vet QB during FA next year. No chance they go with just Eli, Webb, and #1 pick during camp - they always have a fourth arm in there, and especially with two of them being rookies. So we still have a decision to make on whether Smith should be that fourth QB.

It's clear that they would like to see Smith because they aren't as decided on him as many on BBI are.

And I want to add that you are another poster I respect on BBI and appreciate the discussion you bring.
Well that makes it much harder to disagree with you  
Bill L : 11/29/2017 8:29 pm : link
. But I definitely feel the same about you.
I love all the backlash against the organization, they surely deserve  
Jim in Hoboken : 11/29/2017 10:04 pm : link
it. I am as big of an Eli critic as anyone, but to pin this season on him is beyond absurd.

Not a fan of Maraís, and this move just proves it. He may not be heartless, if he originally wanted Eli to start the remaining games at least, but he sure as hell is clueless to trust Reese with the rebuild and absolve McAdoo of the major share of the blame in this disaster of a season.

Hell, I can definitely see idiot Mara bringing both back. I hope the negativity surrounding the whole fiasco convinces him otherwise.

And I support whatever other fans may do during the remaining home games to voice our collective displeasure. We are among the laughing stock franchises of the league now, and I am not certain this owner has any clue to lead us out of it.
Honest  
jbeintherockies : 11/29/2017 10:54 pm : link
Mara came across as pretty honest to me.

What I gleaned from that is McAdoo is done. He will not be back next year.

Next, what we are seeing is what happens when a message gets passed through two people before reaching its destination. If Mara had talked to Eli about it directly, I think things would have gone a lot differently. However, by the time the message rattled its way through Reese and McAdoo, it probably didn't come across the same. McAdoo doesn't seem to have people skills and the way he phrased it probably wasn't the best.

Which brings me to my next observation. When McAdoo was asked by the press if he was surprised this team was 0-5, he said that he was not surprised. I get the feeling he is annoyed by something in the organization. Maybe Reese (and Mara through Reese) are influencing things a little too much for McAdoo's comfort level. There just seems to be something about McAdoo that indicates he is annoyed about something. Like he isn't really running the team or making the decisions.

Regardless, I think McAdoo sucks and he needs to be shown the door along with Reese.

Unfortunately, I get the feeling Reese is actually safe.
RE: Starting to think the giants are gonna use this  
burtmanjack : 11/29/2017 10:56 pm : link
In comment 13713223 ghost718 said:
Quote:
as an excuse to bring everyone back.

It starting to remind me of Irsay,and how he couldn't wait to move on from Peyton and draft Luck.

We'll see what happens.


Yep. And how'd that work out?
Eli  
Dragon : 11/30/2017 1:27 am : link
Once again is the one being hurt just crazy, this team as a whole underperformed no one is above being benched. Fans expected them to walk into the playoffs and maybe another SB but they the players must have had the same dream until reality set in. As the owner said there is no right way to do this but it needed to be done because fans started crying oh no does not mean it should not be done.

To me the main point is Mac did not make this decision alone it was done to obtain information about other players. Eli said it himself Iím not doing my job in many ways this could have been done two or three weeks ago. The game is won on the field itís not won by the belief the fans have itís the players and coaches very simple.
Eli always takes the blame.  
PetesHereNow : 11/30/2017 1:35 am : link
Thatís why a majority of the fan base is pissed.
RE: Eli always takes the blame.  
Bill L : 11/30/2017 7:04 am : link
In comment 13713745 PetesHereNow said:
Quote:
Thatís why a majority of the fan base is pissed.
Here it's more a case of the blame being thrust upon him. For the entire 2-9 record. You know, for giving up 51 points in a game and stuff like that. That's wrong imv.

Someone wrote in an article yesterday that "the Giants have a losing record with Eli as the QB, but they don't have a losing record *because* Eli is the QB, And that is a distinction that the front office and coaching staff cannot seem to make".
most  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/30/2017 9:01 am : link
troublesome to me is that Mara only spoke to Eli on Wednesday - a full day AFTER the shit hit the fan. That conversation should have happened BEFORE Tuesday.
I'm going to tell myself  
HoustonGiant : 11/30/2017 9:46 am : link
that this is admission the line is garbage, Eli is too important to get killed in 5 meaningless games, and Slick Benny and, I pray, Reese are gone.
RE: most  
Dan in the Springs : 11/30/2017 9:52 am : link
In comment 13713916 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
troublesome to me is that Mara only spoke to Eli on Wednesday - a full day AFTER the shit hit the fan. That conversation should have happened BEFORE Tuesday.


He was out of town - he texted Eli and tried to set up a phone call but Eli wanted to talk in person. Couldn't get together until Wednesday.

I believe Mara that he never thought Eli would react the way he did. He thought Eli would simply agree to having the other QB's get some playing time. He was wrong, but that explains why he didn't set up a meeting in advance. I think part of that calculus was that he didn't view this as a benching, even if most of the fans and media do, and even if McAdoo himself does.
Dan in the Springs  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/30/2017 10:15 am : link
Not sure I buy it.

For Eli, you make the time, change your schedule, or delay this.

And if Mara can't figure out that the quarterback who has started EVERY GAME since NOVEMBER 2004 being shifted to the SCOUT TEAM is not a demotion/benching, then he's an idiot.
Eric  
ron mexico : 11/30/2017 10:24 am : link
Mara was at league meetings
And Eli wouldn't be running the scout team  
ron mexico : 11/30/2017 10:26 am : link
If he agreed to the plan. We would just be sharing more 1st team practice reps
On a related note  
ron mexico : 11/30/2017 10:30 am : link
Getting Webb meaningful snaps has been discussed here a thousand times.

I don't remember one comment saying that there was no way that Eli would accept that. Let's not pretend that Elis reaction was obvious before the fact.
maybe he is an idiot  
LG in NYC : 11/30/2017 10:31 am : link
or maybe I am... but I completely buy Mara's take on this.

He (like many here) wanted to see other QB's worked in during the rest of this abysmal season. He figured Eli would still be the starter but as games got out of hand, instead of having Eli play in useless games that are out of reach, we'd bring in Geno and/or Webb.

There may be some flaws in that line of thinking (i.e., practice snaps etc), but overall it is a decent idea.

had it been presented in the right way maybe Eli would have accepted it and it would have seemed a more natural thing, without all the hoopla. And then again maybe not... don't forget, it was Eli who decided not to start at all AND wanted a statement put out about it.

so it got royally screwed up along the way and there is plenty of blame to go around, though most of it seems directed at McAdoo in the way he presented it - and rightly so.

But people are trying to parse words and follow timelines like this is Watergate.

whatever...It is my hope that this is just another thing Mara will use in the evaluation that gets BM fired.
RE: maybe he is an idiot  
HomerJones45 : 11/30/2017 10:55 am : link
In comment 13714168 LG in NYC said:
Quote:
or maybe I am... but I completely buy Mara's take on this.

He (like many here) wanted to see other QB's worked in during the rest of this abysmal season. He figured Eli would still be the starter but as games got out of hand, instead of having Eli play in useless games that are out of reach, we'd bring in Geno and/or Webb.

There may be some flaws in that line of thinking (i.e., practice snaps etc), but overall it is a decent idea.

had it been presented in the right way maybe Eli would have accepted it and it would have seemed a more natural thing, without all the hoopla. And then again maybe not... don't forget, it was Eli who decided not to start at all AND wanted a statement put out about it.

so it got royally screwed up along the way and there is plenty of blame to go around, though most of it seems directed at McAdoo in the way he presented it - and rightly so.

But people are trying to parse words and follow timelines like this is Watergate.

whatever...It is my hope that this is just another thing Mara will use in the evaluation that gets BM fired.
Except there is no logic to the "see other qb's" theme. See them for what? We are taking a qb in the first round regardless. Smith is a never-was and is going to be a free agent. Webb was a 3rd round project drafted by the same guy who hasn't found a qb in the draft in 10 years. Nothing either of these qb's does in the next 5 weeks is going to stop us from drafting a qb in round 1. Nothing. And if it does, then the owner really is a moron.

So, there was zero reason for this.
Full disclosure ... I've only read a half  
Beezer : 11/30/2017 11:02 am : link
of the first response by Mara, and it's reading very much as though there's a huge divide in communication between ownership/GM/coaching.

I hardly believe I'm writing this, and thinking it, but it DOES make me almost wish for a more hands-on, involved appearance (at least) from the top floor.

I'll continue to read, but that just jumped out at me. Wondered if anyone else got that feeling. (Maybe there are comments to that end ... I'll catch up eventually.)
Um ...  
Beezer : 11/30/2017 11:05 am : link
no.

Quote:
A: That may be true with a few people, but I think for the most part Ė I think it would have been that reaction with Eli to anybody.


You, sir, are incorrect and, I'll go as far as to say, somewhat out of touch.
HJ  
LG in NYC : 11/30/2017 11:28 am : link
sorry but that is nothing more than your opinion.

you may be right, but they didn't draft Webb in the 3rd RD just b/c they couldn't think of any other names.

and like Mara (and others) have said, it may not be perfect but there is some value in seeing what these guys do under fire. Certainly more meaningful that sending Eli out there week after week in a meaningless season.
My opinion on what happened is this:  
PatersonPlank : 11/30/2017 11:42 am : link
I think Mara gave his support for a plan that allowed the Giants to look at Webb before the end of the season, so they know what to do in the draft. He said ok and expected Mac to handle this in the right way. He didn't expect Eli not to start and didn't expect this to blow up like it did. He just thought a negotiation of playing time would happen and go quietly under the radar. Hence he wasn't even in the office. In Macs usual manner, he suckily handled this. Instead of taking a timeout and re-conferring with Mara, he just blew through it and ended up with 1) Eli on the bench and Geno starting, 2) a public announcement, and 3) a media firestorm.

Mara is now sitting around going what the hell just happened. I think he's really pissed at McAdoo for the way this was handled.
PP - yes  
LG in NYC : 11/30/2017 11:47 am : link
I agree.

that is very likely what happened.
PP- No  
HomerJones45 : 11/30/2017 12:26 pm : link
why on earth would they need Mara's ok to "see" Davis Webb play if a game got out of hand? It's an in-game decision, and every team makes it without getting the owner's input.

They've seen Davis Webb at OTA, mini-camp, training camp and weekly in practice. The net result is that he has never been active nor has there been any move to make him active. Now, they want to see him "under fire"? Why? Because he might be better in a real game than he has been the last six months? Please.
coulda just moved webb up on the depth chart  
Dave : 11/30/2017 12:42 pm : link
and gotten him a series or two of game action

playing geno makes no sense

and the way it was communicated, especially w mara 'out of town' is ridiculous
I think most can concur  
JINTin Adirondacks : 11/30/2017 12:53 pm : link
The negativity, criticism of the season itself, the OL fix failure the locker room toxicity and now this whole QB/Eli shitshow has taken the fan/franchise way past the Handley/Sherman level the national exposure has been blinding to the point that cleaning house is completely unavoidable. anything other wise would be moronic.
We shouldn't forget that when the team drafted Webb  
Bill L : 11/30/2017 12:59 pm : link
they thought that they would be a SB contender and that for the foreseeable future, but especially for 2018, they would be drafting late. I think a project with potential is logical there because that would presumably be the best that they could do. So whether that means you need to put extra effort into evaluating Webb now to see if he would give you more than the top of the next draft would give and permit you to draft a different guy, or if it means that Webb is now superfluous because they are going to pick a QB no matter what, is something we don't know. I suppose you can guess it's the former because, if it's the latter, then there really is no good reason to play Webb (or SMith) at this point.
I'll add that evaluating Webb doesn't make sense to me  
Bill L : 11/30/2017 1:03 pm : link
because he would have to be a game changing QB to allow them not to pick one of this year's top two. It seems like there is a big margin of difference and QB is someplace they wouldn't skimp if they didn't have to. So, it's likely they take a QB no matter what and this decision not only puts Eli in a bad spot but Webb as well.
RE: Dan in the Springs  
Dan in the Springs : 11/30/2017 1:51 pm : link
In comment 13714115 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Not sure I buy it.

For Eli, you make the time, change your schedule, or delay this.

And if Mara can't figure out that the quarterback who has started EVERY GAME since NOVEMBER 2004 being shifted to the SCOUT TEAM is not a demotion/benching, then he's an idiot.


But the plan wasn't to bench him. The plan was for him to remain the starter. The reason Eli is running the scout team is that he doesn't want to start anymore, unless he gets to play the full game.

You don't leave the league meetings early (or fail to go) just because you're planning to take your starter out early in games to see your backups play a little. Even if it is Eli. Once you hear Eli is upset you reach out to him, try to talk to him. Eli wanted to do it in person and he did so as soon as he was back in town and able to make it happen.

Remember, these games are as meaningful as preseason games - useful for evaluation purposes (and revenue-raising) only.
RE: RE: Dan in the Springs  
Bill L : 11/30/2017 1:56 pm : link
In comment 13714830 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 13714115 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Not sure I buy it.

For Eli, you make the time, change your schedule, or delay this.

And if Mara can't figure out that the quarterback who has started EVERY GAME since NOVEMBER 2004 being shifted to the SCOUT TEAM is not a demotion/benching, then he's an idiot.



But the plan wasn't to bench him. The plan was for him to remain the starter. The reason Eli is running the scout team is that he doesn't want to start anymore, unless he gets to play the full game.

You don't leave the league meetings early (or fail to go) just because you're planning to take your starter out early in games to see your backups play a little. Even if it is Eli. Once you hear Eli is upset you reach out to him, try to talk to him. Eli wanted to do it in person and he did so as soon as he was back in town and able to make it happen.

Remember, these games are as meaningful as preseason games - useful for evaluation purposes (and revenue-raising) only.
I disagree with the statement about Eli. He didn't want to start and be pulled out at halftime of every game, regardless of the score or his performance. I don't think he stated that he didn't want to play unless he played the full game. I don't think he was ever given the opportunity to say if he would cede time when the situation warranted it.
at the end of the day  
hitdog42 : 11/30/2017 2:48 pm : link
seems like they are basically letting Mcadoo fire himself here
Mr Mara GFYS  
Bluesbreaker : 11/30/2017 3:10 pm : link
If you bring back this same clown show I will root for

the Eagles !
Pre-season  
Bluesbreaker : 11/30/2017 3:20 pm : link
MacHandley wastes reps on Josn fucking Johnson for starters
it was clear as day this offense wasn't any better and once
OBJ went down the season was over before it started .
I have no problem with Mara  
nicky43 : 12/3/2017 3:11 pm : link
But if he keeps McAdoo and/or Reese after this season than I'll have to think of him as an idiot!
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