Was listening to him on Mike and Mike yesterday, for a guy who is as much of a QB guru as anyone, I do value his insight (overreactions during MNF not withstanding).
First, the level of shock and disappointment you could hear in his voice was obvious. As a man who really appreciates quarterbacking, I thought that was very telling.
However, his more interesting point was regarding the "explanation" of how this was done to evaluate Webb. Gruden felt that this is basically further mismanagement of his development dating back to camp and preseason. He made the point that it was the Giants who basically told everyone Webb won't be ready this season and that it was a "red shirt" year.
He talked about how they put most of their reps into the backup competition between the immortals Geno Smith and Josh Johnson. His overall point being, you already passed up better opportunities to start grooming this kid and now you're doing so forcefully at the expense of Eli Manning?
It was a different perspective so I thought I'd share.
But I don't understand carrying Josh Johnson along through the bitter end of preseason.
You bring Geno in via FA? Fine. You draft Webb in the 3rd round? Fine. But every single rep Eli didn't take this sumer should have been gobbled up by those guys with an emphasis on Webb.
Also, at 0-5, why not start expediting the process with Webb and getting him dressed on Sundays? I'm pretty sure he could have gotten some reps in the Rams or 49ers games.
Did you forget that this team was going to the Super Bowl? How can a Super Bowl team have an untested "3rd Round even though Jerry had a 1st round grade on him" QB as backup on a Super Bowl team? :-)
UGH! When you look back at the ridiculous pre season hype it just becomes more mind boggling that anybody actually dumb enough to belive it.
May through Opening Day - Told this would be "redshirt year"
July to Opening Day - Geno Smith/Josh Johnson fight for #2
Opening Day to November - #3 QB and inactive for all games
December - Starting games
Got it.
Yeah people are forgetting that back in August and September we were focusing on a QB who can keep us in the hunt in case Eli went down and not really worry about grooming someone. Webb doesn't even have experience under center..
No one thought we'd be 2 and fucking 9.
Basically, the idea was that Geno would hopefully be good enough to keep us above water in the event that Eli had to miss a few games. So, I was okay with that. Realistically, you're not going to have a whole lot better than that at the backup QB spot.
That said - Josh Johnson was a complete waste of space and never should have had anything to do with this teams plans. Webb should have gotten every single rep that was wasted on Johnson.
Not the Oline, not the defense, not the special teams, the receivers, the running backs. The only way he can do that is to roll the dice on Geno and win some games with Eli sitting on the side. Explains how he can watch Eli running the scout team with a smile on his face and pretend like it’s all business as usual. He’s out for his own survival. This nonsense that it’s for the good of the team and fanbase, go to hell, coach. People are smarter than that.
It was more the emphasis on a competition between he and Johnson which he seemed to think was a waste.
He commented on how much of an afterthought Webb was for the preseason game ESPN did in Cleveland.
exactly
I don't see him as a fit with his brother in the division though. I could be wrong. Maybe they wouldnt care.
This may end up being an audition for Geno as much as Webb. Think about it. If Eli is gone, which seems very likely, and the Giants aren't committed to going with a rookie QB, who is going to QB this team next year (for at least the first half of the season)? This week's fallout may end up setting the Giants back another year. Had McAdoo not been an asshole, Eli would have been our QB next year regardless, with the door open for 2019 for Webb or whomever they draft. Now, it's really up in the air, which may make next year another throw away season.
Likewise, I understand giving Geno the #2 practice reps and having Webb lead the scout team to start the season. But I don't understand not having some sort of gradual transition to Webb getting at least some of the #2 reps as the season slipped away. Teams have split first team QB reps in practice before. You can't tell me a coaching staff can't think of a way to split Scout team/Backup QB reps to at least start to break in a young QB.
I don't see him as a fit with his brother in the division though. I could be wrong. Maybe they wouldnt care.
yeah this has been blown out of proportion by fans. This has no impact at all in his decision making. In fact, the two of them probably would say that it would be fun to face each other. Nobody is turning a job down because a relative is coaching on a rival team.... nobody.
The Giants and McAdoo couldn't have done a shittier job this season. They have set the bar on everything shitty. Bravo giants. bravo.
All backups suck. Name one good one. They keep extra QBs as camp fodder to take snaps during camp and in case of injury. They always have 4 qbs IIRC.
And yes they both looked like crap, with Johnson worse.
I don't see him as a fit with his brother in the division though. I could be wrong. Maybe they wouldnt care.
Well, it's not really the same.. but the Harbaugh's did play eachother in the Super Bowl in 2013. And they seemed to embrace it.
I don't see Gruden coming here but I don't think it would be because of his brother. If we actually offered him the job, I'm sure he'd take it or at least strongly consider it.
That is the point.
Many of us were saying at the time if you were going to use a decent draft pick for a QB, give him an opportunity to show what he brings to the table. (Who would have thought Watson would do what he did?)
Gino OR Johnson should have been selected early on as #2 and Webb brought along as #3. As the season started to go down the tubes he should have been given some reps.
Waiting until this week was insanity.
Quote:
Everyone believed Eli would start all season and the only question was best to fill in it Eli had a minor injury. Webb was never a candidate for that role.
Yeah people are forgetting that back in August and September we were focusing on a QB who can keep us in the hunt in case Eli went down and not really worry about grooming someone. Webb doesn't even have experience under center..
Watson didn't have experience under center either. Jus' sayin'.
People say that Aaron Rogers blossomed under Favre. We don't know that. We know he is a great QB, but we don't know that he would not have been as good after starting earlier.
I always figured the 2-3 year window was just BS wishful thinking, put out there so that Eli would not feel any pressure from the drafting of Webb. Also, I figured the 2-3 year window was put out there because the Giants figured they wouldn't need him right away anyway.
People say that Aaron Rogers blossomed under Favre. We don't know that. We know he is a great QB, but we don't know that he would not have been as good after starting earlier.
I always figured the 2-3 year window was just BS wishful thinking, put out there so that Eli would not feel any pressure from the drafting of Webb. Also, I figured the 2-3 year window was put out there because the Giants figured they wouldn't need him right away anyway.
Grren Bay couldn't wait for Favre to leave so they could play Rodgers.
People say that Aaron Rogers blossomed under Favre. We don't know that. We know he is a great QB, but we don't know that he would not have been as good after starting earlier.
I always figured the 2-3 year window was just BS wishful thinking, put out there so that Eli would not feel any pressure from the drafting of Webb. Also, I figured the 2-3 year window was put out there because the Giants figured they wouldn't need him right away anyway.
And people forget that Aaron Rodgers is the first one to say he wasn't ready to play coming out of college.
They thought they had a really good team. If Eli went down they wanted a veteran at backup to maybe win a couple of games and stay in the race until Eli recovers. They did not have any confidence that Webb could do that.
Since Geno Smith was available and was previously a starter they thought about giving him a shot at backup QB instead of lifetime clipboard holder, Johnson.
Now that the season is in the toilet there is no need to even have Smith on the roster. Why in hell they are starting him this week is what I don't understand except for something that I read that said McAdoo thinks Eli has been part of the problem and wants to see if a more mobile QB can do better. I'm not sure if what I read has been verified, but that's the only explanation that I can think of.
They thought they had a really good team. If Eli went down they wanted a veteran at backup to maybe win a couple of games and stay in the race until Eli recovers. They did not have any confidence that Webb could do that.
Since Geno Smith was available and was previously a starter they thought about giving him a shot at backup QB instead of lifetime clipboard holder, Johnson.
Now that the season is in the toilet there is no need to even have Smith on the roster. Why in hell they are starting him this week is what I don't understand except for something that I read that said McAdoo thinks Eli has been part of the problem and wants to see if a more mobile QB can do better. I'm not sure if what I read has been verified, but that's the only explanation that I can think of.
So how does sucking biscuits change the plan enough? The plan was for him not to be ready this year and get more training next year because he wouldn't be ready then. My the plan even stunted his growth. Well, the team record is not going to make him ready faster. Playing him now isn't going to change the plan because the plan is based on things inherent to Davis, not the team. There's really no point in playing him for that purpose. In fact, it's unlikely, even at its fruition, that the plan will make him a better QB than Darnold. The team record hurts Davis more than anyone because he is now superfluous. And if he's superfluous, there's no point to playing him now.
But I don't understand carrying Josh Johnson along through the bitter end of preseason.
You bring Geno in via FA? Fine. You draft Webb in the 3rd round? Fine. But every single rep Eli didn't take this sumer should have been gobbled up by those guys with an emphasis on Webb.
Also, at 0-5, why not start expediting the process with Webb and getting him dressed on Sundays? I'm pretty sure he could have gotten some reps in the Rams or 49ers games.
Exactly!! Josh Johnson got reps over Webb the whole preseason, and now week 13 you want to look to the future and you're still not dressing Webb???? WTF? if Geno falls flat on his face you're going to turn to Eli and say get in there?? Eli would run right in there, but you've just said the guy's not the future!
I don't know, this coach and front office have royally fucked up, and they're making themselves out to be the gang that couldn't shoot straight with every decision they've made since!
But that means nothing now. He's been at practice everyday for 3 months since then. Not playing him in preseason(at a time when we were considered contenders) doesn't mean they shouldn't do it now.
The season is over. He had 3 months of an NFL season. He should play to evaluate him.
Weak points across the board by Gruden.
But that means nothing now. He's been at practice everyday for 3 months since then. Not playing him in preseason(at a time when we were considered contenders) doesn't mean they shouldn't do it now.
The season is over. He had 3 months of an NFL season. He should play to evaluate him.
Weak points across the board by Gruden.
Everything about this is weak!!!! You've got to be kidding me...
It's weak. And stupid.
What the hell is he doing? Playing cards everyday.
Or....maybe he's watching film and learning from NFL coaching and players. You know....learning how to prepare, learning how to attack different sets, how to adjust, learn the plays, learn what Eli does and why during games, how NFL defenses attack, cover, react and adjust....
Or let's not play him because they didn't during the preseason.
Everything about this is weak!!!! You've got to be kidding me...
There is no time during the regular season for a team to teach a young QB who was always considered to be a project how to play. An NFL team gets 4, maybe 5 days to prepare their starters for the next game. They operate game to game. What practice time and reps there are go to starters, not third string players they told you immediately they had no plans to push into action.
May through Opening Day - Told this would be "redshirt year"
July to Opening Day - Geno Smith/Josh Johnson fight for #2
Opening Day to November - #3 QB and inactive for all games
December - Starting games
Got it.
If he's that fast a learner, and performs well enough in games 14-16 then he will start immediately next season,and his HC will be: McAdoo...unless Mc....Carthy becomes available.
Waste of a roster spot and waste of a chance to give Webb the backup reps in practice.
Geno served zero purpose on this team the entire year. It never made sense on any level. The only argument people will make is that he could help the Giants win a game or two if Eli had a few week injury or got hurt in the middle of a game. But if you've watched Geno and watched our offensive line in the last few years, that simply was not going to happen. He's a bad QB. No reason to keep him around or sign him in the first place.
They also easily could have cut Geno and Johnson and without a doubt one of them would have been available to sign if Eli got hurt and you needed someone for a couple weeks.
And Josh Johnson did wind up getting signed elsewhere too.
It's weak. And stupid.