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Dottino on Bro and Evan

Victor in CT : 11/30/2017 11:42 am
basically blaming the whole fiasco on McAdoo, they he completely botched the relating of what Mara agreed to, which was possibly pulling Eli out of games that were out of hand either way to play the other QBs. McAdumb alone made it a "start the game, then sit the 2nd half" proposition.
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If the Niners are in front of us  
bceagle05 : 11/30/2017 11:51 am : link
they'll be the ones getting the boatload of picks. Better hope Jimmy G. plays great down the stretch.
This is a mess  
rocco8112 : 11/30/2017 11:52 am : link
but, I think it is possible that McAdoo thinks Eli is the problem with the offensive failures and has been waiting for a chance to play another QB. So he proposed a plan he knew would be rejected and now has a hail mary desperation play to scapegoat Eli to keep his job or put a better offense out there to try to get a future coordinator job.

Crazy, but how else can it be? Unless McAdoo is a world class moron.
Victor  
SLIM_ : 11/30/2017 11:52 am : link
Unfortunately my concern is that if Mara is indeed throwing McAdoo under the bus for this situation, then does he get the blame for the whole year and save Reese once again.

An additional point with my scenario - at some point Eli would have to sit. It may be possible that Eli comes back and plays with the Giants but the next HC is spared that decision of breaking the streak.
Haha  
ryanmkeane : 11/30/2017 11:54 am : link
jesus. McAdoo was just not ready to be a head coach or leader of a locker room, and Mara really botched this hiring.
If true then a lot of this is still on Mara  
j_rud : 11/30/2017 11:55 am : link
First, why trust that McAdoo, who is clearly in over his head, would "handle it the right way"? Why wouldn't he want to know, down to the finestmdetail and possibl even in writing, what the plan was?

Second, if they did do that and McAdoo went off the reservation, why wasn't he fired immediately? He singlehandedly brought about one of the most embarrassing days in the history of the franchise in the midst of one of the worst seasons of the last 35+ years. Any illusions of propriety are long out the window. Just can the guy already.
I think you guys  
Keaton028 : 11/30/2017 11:55 am : link
may be giving Mara too much credit here. I absolutely believe McAdoo bungled this, and wanted this a long time ago. I also believe Mara wanted to move on, and is now trying to save face due to the backlash. Just my opinion, but Mara is a smart man and has known Eli and his character for a long time. You can't tell me he didn't see Eli turning that "proposal" down.
This is where this still lands on Mara  
gmen9892 : 11/30/2017 11:57 am : link
For such an important conversation to be handled by McAdoo, who will probably not be with the organization next year and has ZERO people skills, its unacceptable.

This is your franchise player who has meant so much to the organization. You send McAdoo, who clearly has no affinity towards Eli and is probably the worst communicator of all the Head Coaches in the league right now. That conversation needs to be handled by either Reese (not sure it would have went better with him) or Mara, thats it. Eli deserved that much.
RE: Victor  
Victor in CT : 11/30/2017 11:58 am : link
In comment 13714473 SLIM_ said:
Quote:
Unfortunately my concern is that if Mara is indeed throwing McAdoo under the bus for this situation, then does he get the blame for the whole year and save Reese once again.

An additional point with my scenario - at some point Eli would have to sit. It may be possible that Eli comes back and plays with the Giants but the next HC is spared that decision of breaking the streak.


Me too SLIM. Rees escapes the choppoing block, is allowed to hire a another new coach, then forces him to play the QB the fired coach wanted AND gets to trade a top 5 pick and executre the picks after years of botched drafts?? Talk about a worst case scenario!
I think there were good intentions all around but  
Dinger : 11/30/2017 11:58 am : link
one of Macadoos MAJOR faults is his relationship with and attitude toward the press. Mara may have been foolish here to leave it to the coach to relay what the team had decided. I think Mara LOVES Eli and will keep him here at all costs(at least before this fiasco). He simply wants to have a some 'film' on Webb and while throwing him into the fire isn't the best measurement of him, they need to know whats there. A huge consideration is that infront of your 'next QB' you need an offensive line, and since you'll have a high draft pick in each round you'll want to know, should I consider a Tackle that high or will I be able to wait. I do believe Mara is looking big picture and leaving Macadoo to communicate it wasn't his best call.
I do think Mara loves Eli  
Keaton028 : 11/30/2017 12:02 pm : link
I also think Mara loves money, and the stadium has been quite empty even with Eli playing. I think he signed off on this move in desperation and the possibilty of one of the other QBs drumming up fan interest again. I do think he did not anticipate the backlash to be this bad, and now is trying to spin the narrative. Again, just my impression, but everything the Giants have done as of late has reeked of desperation and panic.
This could be damage control  
aimrocky : 11/30/2017 12:03 pm : link
by the team, pushing all of the blame onto the carcass of McAdoo, but I could absolutely see that window licker screwing up the communication.
It's Cover Your Ass time!  
Section331 : 11/30/2017 12:04 pm : link
I don't doubt that McAdoo took the directive too far, but this whole situation stinks. Mara agreed to this, he even said he was surprised when Eli didn't. THAT is the wild card they didn't expect, along with the strong negative reaction by fans and press.

Now they're leaking to throw McAdoo under the bus. Look, I'd drive the bus over McAdoo's dead body, but this organization is a shit show right now. It goes much deeper than the HC and GM.
sounds like mara  
japanhead : 11/30/2017 12:05 pm : link
runs a real tight ship. what a fucking joke.
The thing is  
Keaton028 : 11/30/2017 12:06 pm : link
if this was all a miscommunication, then Mara could fix it right now..We are still not near the Oakland game, Mara could rectify it, apologize for the communication, Eli is starting and thats that. However, this "misunderstanding" has not been corrected, Eli is not starting, Smith is playing....all of this is according to plan except for the intensity of the fan backlash which was not expected.
You have to conclude  
moespree : 11/30/2017 12:07 pm : link
That either the owner is lying to everyone and he knew exactly what McAdoo was going to do, or McAdoo lied or misled the owner. In which case why isn't he fired already? So I have no idea what's going on with the franchise anymore.
Stop making excuses for Mara  
Mike from Ohio : 11/30/2017 12:08 pm : link
Yeah McAdoo handled this badly, but if his idea was to approach Eli about being pulled only from games that were out of hand, and he left the building and left it to McAdoo to handle, then he is just as responsible. That discussion should have come from Mara, in person.

If the plan was presented correctly and neither of them could foresee how Eli would respond, then shame on him for pushing the blame onto McAdoo.

Mara is the owner of this team and is the one who owed Eli an explanation. The fact that he let it be handled by alone by a lame-duck coach who has already largely lost the locker room is in itself damning.
Mara can  
Rick5 : 11/30/2017 12:10 pm : link
distance himself from this by firing McAdoo today. I don't believe that will happen, so it's on the owners if they decide to go forward with this plan as far as I'm concerned. It's not exactly like the owners don't have any options at this point.
Or Mara sat back a day  
bradshaw44 : 11/30/2017 12:11 pm : link
Watched the fallout and crafted his narrative to what the fan base wanted to hear. But BM is such an idiot to date I could see this being true as well.
Unfortunately  
Keaton028 : 11/30/2017 12:12 pm : link
I do believe everyone was on board as McAdoo had said. I think Mara expected a bit of backlash, but that people would come around quickly because "it was time". He is a prideful man. Now, he sees the backlash is intense, and he is trying to walk it back to save face. If it was all a misunderstanding, Eli would already have been announced as the starter Sunday, and we'd have new McAdoo is a dunce memes
For those saying why trust McAdoo to handle this convo  
bigblue5611_2 : 11/30/2017 12:12 pm : link
My question back would be that if this is what Mara had truly intended (Eli starting and then Webb/Smith get reps in garbage time) then why would Mara expect a conversation to be had with Eli at all? Itís certainly not unusual at all to see backups get reps in blowouts and garbage time. If the Giants were in a game like that, then McAdoo just subs Eli out with no conversation needed. I think this is what Mara expected to happen, which I think is why he was nowhere near the building when all this went down. I believe McAdoo went way off the reservation with this and essentially made this move on his own.
Bradshaw44  
Keaton028 : 11/30/2017 12:13 pm : link
I think you got it.
RE: It's Cover Your Ass time!  
Victor in CT : 11/30/2017 12:15 pm : link
In comment 13714514 Section331 said:
Quote:
I don't doubt that McAdoo took the directive too far, but this whole situation stinks. Mara agreed to this, he even said he was surprised when Eli didn't. THAT is the wild card they didn't expect, along with the strong negative reaction by fans and press.

Now they're leaking to throw McAdoo under the bus. Look, I'd drive the bus over McAdoo's dead body, but this organization is a shit show right now. It goes much deeper than the HC and GM.


yes, I agree. they are a mess right now. Fredo is in charge, not Michael
That is even a more silly rationale  
HomerJones45 : 11/30/2017 12:16 pm : link
why would McAdoo need Gm Jr's ok to pull Eli out if the game got out of hand? Why would he need GM Jr's ok to have Webb active as the #2 instead of Smith just in case? Who is the head coach and GM here?

The more the various talking heads and team officials talk, the more this whole organization looks like a clown car.
Mara likes to meddle, and wants to meddle more,  
bceagle05 : 11/30/2017 12:17 pm : link
but doesn't want a Jerry Jones/Dan Snyder reputation. So instead of sitting Reese and McAdoo down and clearly stating his instructions for the QB situation, he throws out a vague "isn't it about time we see these other QBs?" and leaves it up to his GM and coach to interpret what he wants. Just ridiculous. Then he runs to the league meetings while the shit hits the fan.
He's an owner so his primary concern  
Keaton028 : 11/30/2017 12:18 pm : link
Is profits. Of course he loves Eli, who has made him a ton of money. But, I think he looked around at the empty stadium even with Manning playing and began to panic. The 2017 Giants have been all about panic moves. He may have thought a young Webb would garner interest again, and people would come back on Sunday. This has seemed to have backfired.
Mara looks like a complete ASS CLOWN  
ZogZerg : 11/30/2017 12:20 pm : link
here.

Where's that NY Post picture with Bozo the clown driving Rex Ryan - They need to update it with Mara, McApoo, and Reese....
RE: It's Cover Your Ass time!  
HomerJones45 : 11/30/2017 12:21 pm : link
In comment 13714514 Section331 said:
Quote:
I don't doubt that McAdoo took the directive too far, but this whole situation stinks. Mara agreed to this, he even said he was surprised when Eli didn't. THAT is the wild card they didn't expect, along with the strong negative reaction by fans and press.

Now they're leaking to throw McAdoo under the bus. Look, I'd drive the bus over McAdoo's dead body, but this organization is a shit show right now. It goes much deeper than the HC and GM.
Rescue the family image time is more like it. And how about the "we'll be able to trade our top 5 pick for a bunch of other picks because we'll know so much about Davis Webb." Are they fucking kidding? Would Mo, Larry and Curly really pass on drafting a franchise qb because of Davis freaking Webb? Are they really that fucking stupid?
RE: If McAdoo was going to be fired this week,  
micky : 11/30/2017 12:22 pm : link
In comment 13714442 NorwoodWideRight said:
Quote:
Mara would have done so prior to his press conference yesterday.


this is just more signs that Mara may just bring him back..dont trust mara
RE: RE: It's Cover Your Ass time!  
Victor in CT : 11/30/2017 12:23 pm : link
In comment 13714568 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 13714514 Section331 said:


Quote:


I don't doubt that McAdoo took the directive too far, but this whole situation stinks. Mara agreed to this, he even said he was surprised when Eli didn't. THAT is the wild card they didn't expect, along with the strong negative reaction by fans and press.

Now they're leaking to throw McAdoo under the bus. Look, I'd drive the bus over McAdoo's dead body, but this organization is a shit show right now. It goes much deeper than the HC and GM.

Rescue the family image time is more like it. And how about the "we'll be able to trade our top 5 pick for a bunch of other picks because we'll know so much about Davis Webb." Are they fucking kidding? Would Mo, Larry and Curly really pass on drafting a franchise qb because of Davis freaking Webb? Are they really that fucking stupid?


EXACTLY! How fucking scary is that proposition. Dottino is a favored house man too, so I'd wager there is some truth to it, almost a trial balloon. Scarier is that it tells you that Reese is staying and would be making those picks.
The Giants are an entity  
Keaton028 : 11/30/2017 12:24 pm : link
That is extremely profitable to whomever owns it. Mara is gonna have his finger on the pulse of every major decision because of that. Any narrative where he is was ignorant of something major happening, I am very skeptical about.
I like Dottino and all,  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/30/2017 12:30 pm : link
but his word shouldn't be taken as gospel. Especially not the part about trading our top pick. Seriously doubt that happens.
RE: I like Dottino and all,  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/30/2017 12:35 pm : link
In comment 13714592 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
but his word shouldn't be taken as gospel. Especially not the part about trading our top pick. Seriously doubt that happens.


Reese doesn't even like trading down out of his slot. There's a 0% chance they trade the best pick position they'll get since 2004.
Dottino being a Giants' mouthpiece  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/30/2017 12:36 pm : link
this is just Mara throwing Mac under the bus. Separating himself so that he can be less reviled.
I donít buy this at all  
trueblueinpw : 11/30/2017 12:51 pm : link
I think McAdoo has been saying for a while that Eliís days are over. I think Mara didnít expect the enormous backlash from fans and public figures but I think Mara believes what heís hearing from McAdoo that Eli is part of the problem.

The reality is that if Mara wanted to fix McAdooís butt fumbling the play to get Webb some snaps then he could have and would have already fixed the situation.

Also, if Mara had any charecter he wouldnít have surrounded himself with the likes of Reese and McAdoo, both of whom seem to be very low integrity guys. Attitude follows leadership and I think out real problem is that Mara is a fool.
RE: Dottino being a Giants' mouthpiece  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/30/2017 1:07 pm : link
In comment 13714614 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
this is just Mara throwing Mac under the bus. Separating himself so that he can be less reviled.

Don't forget that Dottino had been extremely vocal in recent weeks that this would never happen and there was no chance that anyone other than Eli would start for the Giants this season (or next season either, for that matter). Now, that could be because Eli's refusal to play along with the team's plan (or McAdoo's bungled attempt at it) obviously changed everything, but Dottino also has some egg on his face on this because he took such an absolute position.

So now he's also defending his own credibility to some degree - even if he was 100% right at the time about this season, it's pretty clear that his stance on next season was iffy at best anyway.
Dottino doesn't know what the hell is going on either  
moespree : 11/30/2017 1:11 pm : link
He has connections and he is close to the organization, that's true. But just how much info that connection gives him is overrated in my opinion. He was wrong on this, he's been wrong in the past on the draft, free agency, trades, coaching decisions etc.
Credit where due  
mfsd : 11/30/2017 1:47 pm : link
This is what Slade posted yesterday. Iíve been quick to knock him when heís been wrong, and who knows whatís really gone on behind the scenes, but could be some truth to this
This sounds like Pat Hanlon spin tbh...  
ArcadeSlumlord : 11/30/2017 2:36 pm : link
Covering for his weaselly coward of a beta boss.

Nice work Pat!
RE: Credit where due  
Emil : 11/30/2017 2:40 pm : link
In comment 13714822 mfsd said:
Quote:
This is what Slade posted yesterday. Iíve been quick to knock him when heís been wrong, and who knows whatís really gone on behind the scenes, but could be some truth to this


Ehh, no offense to Slade, but many of us came to this conclusion on our own after Mara's statements. Giants ownership is clearly angry about this season and how many situations have been handled. Also, Art Stapleton said the same thing late yesterday. Mara really gave McAdoo both barrels when he mentioned that communication and empathy were not McAdoo's strong suit and that there were no guarantees when it came to the coach keeping his job for the next month.

Now if McAdoo gets fired before the end of the season, I'll give Slade all the credit he is due.
RE: I like Dottino and all,  
baadbill : 11/30/2017 2:49 pm : link
In comment 13714592 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
but his word shouldn't be taken as gospel. Especially not the part about trading our top pick. Seriously doubt that happens.


It's just silly to think the Giants have already thought about what they will do with their pick. They don't even know where they will be picking - nor do they know what QBs will be in the draft. Nor do they know what they could get for trading down. It's just a ludicrous idea that any such conversation has taken place. Beyond nuts.
Dottino  
joeinpa : 11/30/2017 2:51 pm : link
Actually crticized someone affiliated with the Giants!

Yikes They messed this Eli thing up so badly poor Paul didn't know what to do.
RE: Agreed, I just wrote this exact thing on a different thread  
batman11 : 11/30/2017 3:12 pm : link
In comment 13714413 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
I think Mara gave his support for a plan that allowed the Giants to look at Webb before the end of the season, so they know what to do in the draft. He said ok and expected Mac to handle this in the right way. He didn't expect Eli not to start and didn't expect this to blow up like it did. He just thought a negotiation of playing time would happen and go quietly under the radar. Hence he wasn't even in the office. In Macs usual manner, he suckily handled this. Instead of taking a timeout and re-conferring with Mara, he just blew through it and ended up with 1) Eli on the bench and Geno starting, 2) a public announcement, and 3) a media firestorm.

Mara is now sitting around going what the hell just happened. I think he's really pissed at McAdoo for the way this was handled.


Agreed, and because if this, and that he is a fucking moron, I would fire McAdoo now.
RE: RE: I like Dottino and all,  
crick n NC : 11/30/2017 3:28 pm : link
In comment 13714610 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13714592 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


but his word shouldn't be taken as gospel. Especially not the part about trading our top pick. Seriously doubt that happens.



Reese doesn't even like trading down out of his slot. There's a 0% chance they trade the best pick position they'll get since 2004.


Has Reese said he doesn't like trading down? If he did I missed it.
I find it somewhat comical  
RollBlue : 11/30/2017 3:30 pm : link
those pilling on Reese, who has been with the organization for a long time, and instrumental in the teams that won TWO Super Bowls. Sure he's made mistakes - show me a GM that hasn't.
That said a change may be necessary, but saying the guy is some clown isn't recognizing the full body of work. Most people thought the roster was pretty good heading into the season.
TC was a great coach who also made some bad decisions - is he a buffoon too - can't get the challenge flag out of his sock, etc???
RE: I find it somewhat comical  
rocco8112 : 11/30/2017 3:35 pm : link
In comment 13715026 RollBlue said:
Quote:
those pilling on Reese, who has been with the organization for a long time, and instrumental in the teams that won TWO Super Bowls. Sure he's made mistakes - show me a GM that hasn't.
That said a change may be necessary, but saying the guy is some clown isn't recognizing the full body of work. Most people thought the roster was pretty good heading into the season.
TC was a great coach who also made some bad decisions - is he a buffoon too - can't get the challenge flag out of his sock, etc???


Reese holds the most blame for all of this. Still no answer at o line. Still no answer at RB. Still no answer at LB. Specials are garbage which means shit depth.

Teflon Reese is the main reason all of this has happened and I think he will be back next year to boot.
RE: RE: I like Dottino and all,  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/30/2017 9:13 pm : link
In comment 13714948 baadbill said:
Quote:
In comment 13714592 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


but his word shouldn't be taken as gospel. Especially not the part about trading our top pick. Seriously doubt that happens.



It's just silly to think the Giants have already thought about what they will do with their pick. They don't even know where they will be picking - nor do they know what QBs will be in the draft. Nor do they know what they could get for trading down. It's just a ludicrous idea that any such conversation has taken place. Beyond nuts.

It almost certainly hasn't. But Dottino has egg on his face and is trying to pick a new bet to double down on.
RE: RE: RE: I like Dottino and all,  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/30/2017 9:35 pm : link
In comment 13715024 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 13714610 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13714592 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


but his word shouldn't be taken as gospel. Especially not the part about trading our top pick. Seriously doubt that happens.



Reese doesn't even like trading down out of his slot. There's a 0% chance they trade the best pick position they'll get since 2004.



Has Reese said he doesn't like trading down? If he did I missed it.


I think ten years of drafts is enough of a sample to form an opinion.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I like Dottino and all,  
Victor in CT : 12/1/2017 8:06 am : link
In comment 13715531 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13715024 crick n NC said:


Quote:


In comment 13714610 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13714592 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


but his word shouldn't be taken as gospel. Especially not the part about trading our top pick. Seriously doubt that happens.



Reese doesn't even like trading down out of his slot. There's a 0% chance they trade the best pick position they'll get since 2004.



Has Reese said he doesn't like trading down? If he did I missed it.



I think ten years of drafts is enough of a sample to form an opinion.


He only trades UP for QBs who can't play, never down.
Fire McAdoo  
Dodge : 12/1/2017 10:39 am : link
On Sunday night. Leave him out west.
Mara,  
fkap : 12/1/2017 1:17 pm : link
who is very involved in every aspect of this team, took a hands off/vague instructions approach to one of the biggest decision (and PR handling) processes of the decade?

yeah, right.

McAdoo may have bungled, but Mara knew darn well there was going to be a backlash no matter what and set it up so Mac would take the fall.

Mara is not innocent, in this, or in the state of the Giants overall.
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