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Articles about ELi and HOF status now coming out.

AnishPatel : 11/30/2017 7:34 pm
There was another article by the Wash post saying overrated Eli, but giants handled it wrong.

So what things on Eli resume would help him to get into the HOF. 2 SB wins and MVPs help. Now these articles and sports talk will talk about this probably more now.

What things would you cite as a reason for him to be a HOFer?
link - ( New Window )
I hope that he goes to Jacksonville  
Jay on the Island : 11/30/2017 7:42 pm : link
Has a bounce back season and wins another SB. Having three SB trophies will ensure him a spot in the HOF which will force the biased HOF voters to vote him in.
Here is the article  
AnishPatel : 11/30/2017 7:44 pm : link
..
Eli Manning is overrated but NYG botched their QB situation. - ( New Window )
.  
Go Terps : 11/30/2017 7:53 pm : link
I've always been of the opinion that if you have to make the case for someone as a Hall of Famer, that guy isn't a Hall of Famer. I think it comes down to being able to say it aloud: "Is "X" a Hall of Famer?" Anyone for whom the answer is not an immediate and resounding "YES!" is not a Hall of Famer.

Is Johnny Unitas a Hall of Famer? YES!

Is Jim Kelly a Hall of Famer? No.

By that standard I would say Eli is not. If we consider the Hall of Fame the highest possible individual honor that a player can receive, I would think it should only be bestowed upon those players so rare that they and their peers belong in a very small room. There's a room of quarterbacks (Montana, Unitas, Graham, Brady, and maybe a couple more) that is ultra-exclusive and does not include Eli.

But the Hall of Fame doesn't operate that way. It's been reduced to a conversation of "If so and so is in, such and such should also be in."

So by that standard, if guys like Jim Kelly, Aeneas Williams, and Cris Carter are in, Eli Manning is for damn sure a Hall of Famer.

RE: .  
adamg : 11/30/2017 7:56 pm : link
In comment 13715411 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I've always been of the opinion that if you have to make the case for someone as a Hall of Famer, that guy isn't a Hall of Famer. I think it comes down to being able to say it aloud: "Is "X" a Hall of Famer?" Anyone for whom the answer is not an immediate and resounding "YES!" is not a Hall of Famer.

Is Johnny Unitas a Hall of Famer? YES!

Is Jim Kelly a Hall of Famer? No.

By that standard I would say Eli is not. If we consider the Hall of Fame the highest possible individual honor that a player can receive, I would think it should only be bestowed upon those players so rare that they and their peers belong in a very small room. There's a room of quarterbacks (Montana, Unitas, Graham, Brady, and maybe a couple more) that is ultra-exclusive and does not include Eli.

But the Hall of Fame doesn't operate that way. It's been reduced to a conversation of "If so and so is in, such and such should also be in."

So by that standard, if guys like Jim Kelly, Aeneas Williams, and Cris Carter are in, Eli Manning is for damn sure a Hall of Famer.


+1

Eli should be in.
I think he's a HOFer  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/30/2017 8:03 pm : link
But wasn't sure others shared that opinion until this week when a lot of friends-most of whom aren't Giant fans-called or texted me & said as much. It's kinda funny that it took this whole fiasco for people to appreciate Eli's career.
You can make a decent case either way  
Greg from LI : 11/30/2017 8:07 pm : link
My gut feeling is that he gets in eventually, but it will take a while.
RE: .  
AnishPatel : 11/30/2017 8:08 pm : link
In comment 13715411 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I've always been of the opinion that if you have to make the case for someone as a Hall of Famer, that guy isn't a Hall of Famer. I think it comes down to being able to say it aloud: "Is "X" a Hall of Famer?" Anyone for whom the answer is not an immediate and resounding "YES!" is not a Hall of Famer.

Is Johnny Unitas a Hall of Famer? YES!

Is Jim Kelly a Hall of Famer? No.

By that standard I would say Eli is not. If we consider the Hall of Fame the highest possible individual honor that a player can receive, I would think it should only be bestowed upon those players so rare that they and their peers belong in a very small room. There's a room of quarterbacks (Montana, Unitas, Graham, Brady, and maybe a couple more) that is ultra-exclusive and does not include Eli.

But the Hall of Fame doesn't operate that way. It's been reduced to a conversation of "If so and so is in, such and such should also be in."

So by that standard, if guys like Jim Kelly, Aeneas Williams, and Cris Carter are in, Eli Manning is for damn sure a Hall of Famer.


Yeah but when you ask yourself that, you're thinking of 1st ballot HOFer. The basic question at it's root is can ELi get into the HOF with his resume? Is he able, maybe being years and years down the road, get into the HOF?

I think a strong argument can be made regarding the Super Bowls  
Go Terps : 11/30/2017 8:14 pm : link
Specifically, Eli was the catalyst on two of the greatest Super Bowl plays in history (one of which - the Tyree play - I'd contend is the greatest play in NFL history). Those two plays were not only great in and of themselves, but they occurred as part of drives that determined the winner of a championship. There have only been 51 Super Bowls; two of them saw the result change because Eli made historic plays in the absolute crucial moments.

Personally I think that's worth more than several seasons of high quarterback ratings, TD/INT ratios, etc.
Anish  
Go Terps : 11/30/2017 8:16 pm : link
Yeah he probably gets in.

But to add to my post from before, I don't like the concept of first ballot vs. something else. If being a first ballot HOFer means more than being a HOFer, then I think there should be an honor higher than the HOF reserved for the first ballot guys.
he is on the bubble  
RasputinPrime : 11/30/2017 8:21 pm : link
and in or out will depend on how those with a vote decide that bubble should grow or shrink.
And to add to my Super Bowl argument  
Go Terps : 11/30/2017 8:22 pm : link
Consider the MVP award. MVPs obviously weigh very, very heavily when determining HOF eligibility.

So consider the MVPs in 2013 and 2015: Peyton Manning and Cam Newton. Both those guys got to the Super Bowl as MVPs and proceeded to completely shit the bed. In Newton's case, he quit on the game in what may be the worst display I've ever seen from a professional athlete on a big stage.

Should those MVP seasons even count for those players when considering them for the Hall of Fame? If so, should it count for more than making the historic title winning play like Eli did...twice?

Eli didn't win any MVPs, but I believe he did something greater and more important on two separate occasions, and that should weigh heavily in his favor.
RE: Anish  
AnishPatel : 11/30/2017 8:55 pm : link
In comment 13715434 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Yeah he probably gets in.

But to add to my post from before, I don't like the concept of first ballot vs. something else. If being a first ballot HOFer means more than being a HOFer, then I think there should be an honor higher than the HOF reserved for the first ballot guys.


Yes, I agree, but I think it is that. First ballot are the ones you say YES right away! Next, wait 5, 10, 15, or 20 years later, and they look at the resume and say you know what? This guy can get it and we accept him as a HOFer. There were others that got in before him. Brady, AR, Brees and then after that, let's look at Eli again.
Can you tell the story of the NFL without this player?  
twostepgiants : 11/30/2017 9:06 pm : link
If the answer is NO, then that guy is a Hall of Famer.

Thatís my standard.

IMO- You cant tell the story of the NFL without Eli Manning.

He defeated the the 18-0 dynasty and greatest QB and HC of all-time in the greatest Super Bowl of all time and did it with the greatest play in NFL history and he did it not once but twice.

Not only that but until that moment it was Brady who was the clutch comeback QB and Eli upstaged himat his own game and he did it twice.

You cannot tell the story of the NFL without that. Let alone the two epic runs that preceded those two games.

Only 5 players have won 2 SB MVPs and Eli is one of them. Only 1 player in SB history has needed a TD to win the game in the final drive and got it. Thatís Eli. (Meaning they couldnt rely on getting a FG to win or tie)

For this alone Eli is a Hall of Famer.

Beyond that- Eli has the iron man streak on his record. he is the QB of one of the NFLs flagship franchises for 12 years. He is 7th all-time in passing yards with over 50000 yds and passing TDs and over 300 TDs. None of these things are small feats. This is not Jim Plunkett here.

Eli is a Hall of Famer.
RE: You can make a decent case either way  
bw in dc : 11/30/2017 9:06 pm : link
In comment 13715425 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
My gut feeling is that he gets in eventually, but it will take a while.


I think you nailed it. Personally, I don't think he's in. But he has the football royalty factor - a Manning. The media love the first family of football.

Thus, that will eventually be the catalyst that gets him in.
The list of QBs with 2 Super Bowls and 300+ TD passes is short.  
Tom in NY : 11/30/2017 9:19 pm : link
Favre, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, John Elway, & Eli Manning.

2 of that list are in the HOF, Peyton & Brady are shoo-ins....Eli will get in as well.
Isn't Plunkett  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/30/2017 9:22 pm : link
the only 2X Super Bowl winning QB not to get in to the HOF?
RE: The list of QBs with 2 Super Bowls and 300+ TD passes is short.  
spike : 11/30/2017 9:22 pm : link
In comment 13715502 Tom in NY said:
Quote:
Favre, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, John Elway, & Eli Manning.

2 of that list are in the HOF, Peyton & Brady are shoo-ins....Eli will get in as well.


The great Favre only won one Super Bowl. He lost another
Yeah,  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/30/2017 9:25 pm : link
Brett Favre only won 1 title.
RE: Isn't Plunkett  
Greg from LI : 11/30/2017 9:26 pm : link
In comment 13715507 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
the only 2X Super Bowl winning QB not to get in to the HOF?


Yes, but most of that particular subset of QBs are unquestionably considered above Eli Manning - Bart Starr, Terry Bradshaw, Roger Staubach, Joe Montana, John Elway, Tom Brady.

That leaves two others besides Plunkett, Roethlisberger who is Eli's contemporary, and Bob Griese.
Forgot Aikman  
Greg from LI : 11/30/2017 9:27 pm : link
Who I've always seen a borderline HOFer
The only thing Eli doesn't have  
Doomster : 11/30/2017 9:28 pm : link
in his resume, are those "elite" seasons, statistically....

When you play 210 games, and average 25 TD's, 17 int's, 3830 yds, and have a 59.8 completion %, you accumulate stats and get into the top 10 in lot of lifetime stats....

His best season was 2011, 29 tds, 16 ints, 61 %, 4933 yards......to the casual eye, it looks kind of average outside of the yardage......but those stats do not show the the fourth quarter comebacks, what he had for an OL, his lack of a running game and the fact that his defense gave up 400 points, that year....

In 14 seasons, he only had two seasons where he won a playoff game....

So non Giant fans will look at those stats, and say, he just played a long time to accumulate those lifetime stats.....

What stats don't show is his leadership in those two SB years.....what stats don't show, is the lack of support Eli got from the front office, his last 6 years...

I think he will get in, but it's not going to happen the first, second or third years he is eligible.....it may take awhile....
RE: The list of QBs with 2 Super Bowls and 300+ TD passes is short.  
Greg from LI : 11/30/2017 9:32 pm : link
In comment 13715502 Tom in NY said:
Quote:
Favre, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, John Elway, & Eli Manning.

2 of that list are in the HOF, Peyton & Brady are shoo-ins....Eli will get in as well.


Eli has had easily the least impressive career of that group, though. Favre has one fewer ring but was a 3 time MVP, 11 Pro Bowls, etc.

I've said it before - Eli has had a very unusual career. Hard to find a good comp for him.
RE: RE: The list of QBs with 2 Super Bowls and 300+ TD passes is short.  
bw in dc : 11/30/2017 9:34 pm : link
In comment 13715508 spike said:
Quote:
In comment 13715502 Tom in NY said:


Quote:


Favre, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, John Elway, & Eli Manning.

2 of that list are in the HOF, Peyton & Brady are shoo-ins....Eli will get in as well.



The great Favre only won one Super Bowl. He lost another


Favre was 10X the regular season QB that Eli was/is. He was a 3X MVP. He was a 3X All-Pro. And he was always in the playoffs - 12X. Favre could have no SB wins and would get in on the first ballot...
People have let late-career Favre' s penchant for bad picks  
Greg from LI : 11/30/2017 9:37 pm : link
obscure just how damned good he was in the first half of his career. He didn't get those three MVPs by accident.
RE: You can make a decent case either way  
montanagiant : 11/30/2017 9:37 pm : link
In comment 13715425 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
My gut feeling is that he gets in eventually, but it will take a while.

Yeah that is where I am at also with regards to this.
RE: RE: The list of QBs with 2 Super Bowls and 300+ TD passes is short.  
bw in dc : 11/30/2017 9:44 pm : link
In comment 13715524 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13715502 Tom in NY said:


Quote:
I've said it before - Eli has had a very unusual career. Hard to find a good comp for him.


I was thinking Griese or Plunkett. But they played in such a different era where receivers got mugged and QBs were treated like test drive dummies. And neither went numb like Eli in the playoffs.

So I think your are right. He's actually got no comps.

IMO an important distinction with Eli  
NyquistX3 : 11/30/2017 9:46 pm : link
is not just that he's won 2 SBs. He is a two time SB MVP.
RE: RE: RE: The list of QBs with 2 Super Bowls and 300+ TD passes is short.  
montanagiant : 11/30/2017 9:47 pm : link
In comment 13715548 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13715524 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 13715502 Tom in NY said:


Quote:
I've said it before - Eli has had a very unusual career. Hard to find a good comp for him.



I was thinking Griese or Plunkett. But they played in such a different era where receivers got mugged and QBs were treated like test drive dummies. And neither went numb like Eli in the playoffs.

So I think your are right. He's actually got no comps.

How do you go 8-0 on the road and win 2 SBs (No one else has ever done that) and claim he went "Numb in the playoffs"?
RE: People have let late-career Favre' s penchant for bad picks  
bw in dc : 11/30/2017 9:47 pm : link
In comment 13715536 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
obscure just how damned good he was in the first half of his career. He didn't get those three MVPs by accident.


Speaking of Favre, that makes me think of his ex-teammate Sterling Sharpe. It is a crime he isn't in the HoF. His numbers for his seven years are nothing short of remarkable.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The list of QBs with 2 Super Bowls and 300+ TD passes is short.  
bw in dc : 11/30/2017 9:48 pm : link
In comment 13715554 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 13715548 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 13715524 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 13715502 Tom in NY said:


Quote:
I've said it before - Eli has had a very unusual career. Hard to find a good comp for him.



I was thinking Griese or Plunkett. But they played in such a different era where receivers got mugged and QBs were treated like test drive dummies. And neither went numb like Eli in the playoffs.

So I think your are right. He's actually got no comps.



How do you go 8-0 on the road and win 2 SBs (No one else has ever done that) and claim he went "Numb in the playoffs"?


I mean numb is a good way...
Ok that makes more sense  
montanagiant : 11/30/2017 9:50 pm : link
I'm just old BW
I've always thought Plunkett is a terrible comparison.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/30/2017 10:01 pm : link
Yes they both had two super bowls. There isn't much else that's similar.
he is.  
mattlawson : 11/30/2017 11:31 pm : link
.
His other credentials  
GiantSteps : 11/30/2017 11:43 pm : link
Eli was also a Walter Payton Man of the Year, and has been to the Pro Bowl four times, as well as having been selected for the NFL top 100 list 3 times (every little bit counts, even though that last one is a VERY little bit).
A fantastic ambassador of the game.
Add them to his super bowl credentials, his streak, and I'd say that's a pretty strong case.


My prediction: what we're witnessing happening right now is going to stick in the collective craw of Giants fans until the day Eli gets his gold jacket. I always just assumed his exit from the team would be bittersweet, and I never thought it would just be bitter. We all want that storybook ending where he rides off into the sunset wearing his Giants jersey, but now....who the hell knows.
If the football gods have a shred of decency and benevolence, they'll grant us one last joy of seeing him get his place in the HOF. Eli has EARNED it.
I think Eli will be viewed more favorably over time  
mfsd : 12/1/2017 12:52 am : link
There will always be those who criticize his inconsistencies...but as time goes on, I think people will give him even more credit for the Super Bowls

His career stats will be there, despite never being the best QB of his era. But 2 game winning Super Bowl drives against the Belichick Pats will stand the test of time.
RE: You can make a decent case either way  
Matt M. : 12/1/2017 4:06 am : link
In comment 13715425 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
My gut feeling is that he gets in eventually, but it will take a while.
This istuation may have accelerated the "little while" part of it. Nearly every media reference is now "future, Hall of Fame QB..." This week certainly swayed public opinion (in the media) in his favor. Another good season or two on another team would cement it, in my opinion.
The way many are talking about him now  
JOrthman : 12/1/2017 5:02 am : link
it sounds like it is going to take awhile to get in.
I think he's borderline right now  
bc4life : 12/1/2017 7:54 am : link
Probably a little outside of the border. A big part of that was the failure to keep enough talent around him. I think a trade to Jax with proper support system and he gets in.
RE: .  
BillKo : 12/1/2017 10:17 am : link
In comment 13715411 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I've always been of the opinion that if you have to make the case for someone as a Hall of Famer, that guy isn't a Hall of Famer. I think it comes down to being able to say it aloud: "Is "X" a Hall of Famer?" Anyone for whom the answer is not an immediate and resounding "YES!" is not a Hall of Famer.

Is Johnny Unitas a Hall of Famer? YES!

Is Jim Kelly a Hall of Famer? No.

By that standard I would say Eli is not. If we consider the Hall of Fame the highest possible individual honor that a player can receive, I would think it should only be bestowed upon those players so rare that they and their peers belong in a very small room. There's a room of quarterbacks (Montana, Unitas, Graham, Brady, and maybe a couple more) that is ultra-exclusive and does not include Eli.

But the Hall of Fame doesn't operate that way. It's been reduced to a conversation of "If so and so is in, such and such should also be in."

So by that standard, if guys like Jim Kelly, Aeneas Williams, and Cris Carter are in, Eli Manning is for damn sure a Hall of Famer.


Perfectly written.
RE: The way many are talking about him now  
BillKo : 12/1/2017 10:20 am : link
In comment 13715711 JOrthman said:
Quote:
it sounds like it is going to take awhile to get in.


Which is fine by me.

He shouldn't be a first ballot type of player.........
Eli is a borderline HOF case,  
Section331 : 12/1/2017 10:22 am : link
but I'm going to question whether he gets in. I think his resume is deserving, but throughout his career, he has been underappreciated by the very people who vote for the HOF - the media.

Maybe, to that extent, this whole mess helps Eli's case. The media has been very sympathetic to him, maybe they will look at him in a new light.

And while I've grown tired of hearing about the damn streak, Eli's longevity absolutely should play a factor in his HOF chances. Dependability matters, and the guy ALWAYS answered the bell.
the funny thing about the article...  
BillKo : 12/1/2017 10:24 am : link
and I'm reading it in work quickly, it seems to me Eli's mediocrity is based on him never throwing less than 10 INTs?

That's pretty weak.

I don't think you last QBing the NYG for 14 years being mediocre.

The SBs, big plays, playing streak, and accumulation of stats makes him a HOF one day.
as far as whether I think he belongs  
Greg from LI : 12/1/2017 10:27 am : link
I think it's a tough call. Rarely was he considered even a top 5 QB in the league. His career totals are impressive, but over time will likely become less so as players who have spent their entire careers in an ever-more pass happy environment keep piling up numbers. On the whole Eli seems like a prime "Hall of Very Good" type - a very good player for a very long time, but never really quite great.....but those two Super Bowl runs happened. That's what makes his career, and case for the HOF, unique to me - I can't think of another QB whose overall career is similar to his who also had two incredible championship runs to his name. The only other guys to do that are the unquestioned gods of the quarterback position, the Bradys, Montanas, Starrs, Bradshaws.

When you consider some of the guys already in the HOF like Namath and the inexplicable Bob Waterfield, it definitely tips the scales in Eli's favor.
I agree with you Greg,  
Section331 : 12/1/2017 10:35 am : link
but is Bradshaw really an unquestioned god of the QB position? I think he's a prime "hall of very good" candidate. In fact, I'm not sure I'd even put him in the HOVG.

212 Td's to 210 INT's, never over 55% completion, and that is with one of the best OL's and WR corps in history. I get that he's in a different era, but he had 12 fewer picks than Eli with 3,500 fewer pass attempts.
Four rings tends to outweigh everything else  
Greg from LI : 12/1/2017 10:35 am : link
.
also, 22% of Bradshaw's INTs came in his first two seasons  
Greg from LI : 12/1/2017 10:39 am : link
When the Steelers were terrible.

Still, yeah, you're right, overall Bradshaw might well be as close a comp for Eli as you'll find.
Aside from statistics and hardware....  
Britt in VA : 12/1/2017 10:46 am : link
Which I think puts him there already, I agree with the poster who said "can you tell the story of the NFL without this guy?" And the answer is no.

First off, he's a Manning, and I know that shouldn't matter, but it does. Archie, then Peyton, then Eli. That's likely never to happen again. Not to mention, Peyton and Eli, back to back Superbowl MVP's. That also will likely never happen again.

Secondly, I mean, he might have a case based on 18-0 alone. That's a major, major event in Superbowl history, right up there with Superbowl III. Major underdogs against an unbeaten team. Add in the Tyree play? That's the stuff legends are made of. They'll still be replaying that in 50 years right alongside clips of the immaculate reception.

And never missing a start in his career is significant.
Excellent point  
montanagiant : 12/1/2017 10:49 am : link
Quote:
Secondly, I mean, he might have a case based on 18-0 alone. That's a major, major event in Superbowl history, right up there with Superbowl III.

Considering that really is the only reason Nameth in there
Namath I mean  
montanagiant : 12/1/2017 10:50 am : link
.
go terps should be on the HOF committee  
Dave : 12/1/2017 11:12 am : link
you nailed it w your analysis
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