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PFF: Dalvin Tomlinson highest graded rookie interior DL

pjcas18 : 12/1/2017 10:19 am
through 11 weeks, FWIW, and for some of you that is not much, but thought I'd share anyway:


Quote:
Pro Football Focus& #8207;Verified account @PFF
1m1 minute ago


Highest graded rookie interior defenders this season
There's a bright future  
UConn4523 : 12/1/2017 10:22 am : link
at many positions on this team. Letting Hankins go was the right decision, it was just not reinforced with spending that money savings correctly.

Snacks and Tomlinson is a great interior. Hopefully this can be harnessed appropriately with a fully new regime.
Imagine if the had  
XBRONX : 12/1/2017 10:34 am : link
Linebackers behind them.
RE: Imagine if the had  
HoustonGiant : 12/1/2017 10:38 am : link
In comment 13716141 XBRONX said:
Quote:
Linebackers behind them.


"What's a Linebacker?" - signed, JR
I wish he and Snacks were better pass rushers,  
81_Great_Dane : 12/1/2017 10:44 am : link
but even without that, they've been great.
the outrage when he was picked  
hitdog42 : 12/1/2017 10:45 am : link
was quite sizeable.

the whining about losing hankins... was also quite large.

the kid has been a great pick... and was a first round grade
Giants sure know how to find solid DT's  
beatrixkiddo : 12/1/2017 10:55 am : link
if only they could hit so well on other positions. I'll take it though, Cofield, Joseph, Hankins, Bromley. Yeah they did miss on Austin, and Alford's career was cut short, but not bad.
RE: I wish he and Snacks were better pass rushers,  
gmen9892 : 12/1/2017 10:56 am : link
In comment 13716185 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
but even without that, they've been great.


The problem is, the guys we are paying to get after the QB (JPP and OV) are note getting it done. Thats why I would be a fan of drafting a guy like Chubb. This defense desperately needs another pass rusher.
RE: RE: Imagine if the had  
est1986 : 12/1/2017 10:56 am : link
In comment 13716160 HoustonGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 13716141 XBRONX said:


Quote:


Linebackers behind them.



"What's a Linebacker?" - signed, JR


Chase Blackburn, Spencer Paysinger, Jacquian Williams, Keith Rivers, Jon Beason, Jamal McClain, Mark Herzlich, J.T. Thomas, Jonathan Casillas, Devon Kennard, Jasper Brinkley, Kelvin Sheppard, B.J. Goodson.

This is what Reese has done with the New York Football Giants Linebackers for over the past half decade.
Hes been getting better recently  
Powerclean765 : 12/1/2017 11:00 am : link
Definitely flashed, but hes not exactly a Pro Bowler yet and the run D was terrible this year. Not the time to beat chest quite yet.
RE: RE: RE: Imagine if the had  
pjcas18 : 12/1/2017 11:02 am : link
In comment 13716237 est1986 said:
Quote:
In comment 13716160 HoustonGiant said:


Quote:


In comment 13716141 XBRONX said:


Quote:


Linebackers behind them.



"What's a Linebacker?" - signed, JR



Chase Blackburn, Spencer Paysinger, Jacquian Williams, Keith Rivers, Jon Beason, Jamal McClain, Mark Herzlich, J.T. Thomas, Jonathan Casillas, Devon Kennard, Jasper Brinkley, Kelvin Sheppard, B.J. Goodson.

This is what Reese has done with the New York Football Giants Linebackers for over the past half decade.


You forgot at least Unga and Munson. You don't want to sell Reese short.
Before the draft, I though Tomlinson was a guy who had "Giants"  
regulator : 12/1/2017 11:07 am : link
written all over him. I was glad to see him available in the 2nd and even more pleased to pick him. A full offseason in a pro strength and conditioning program will be very good for him and I look forward to seeing him develop into an excellent player.

I don't think our poor run defense this year is attributable, in large part, to our interior DL. We have substantially worse LB play than last year, and the absence of Vernon for an extended period hurt us, too. Finally, the Landon Collins injury cannot be overstated. He stayed in and gutted it out, but he wasn't the same player.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/1/2017 11:10 am : link
Reese has certain positions where he seems to consistently be able to find good young talent. DT one of them. He seems to scout defensive linemen, defensive backs and WR's really well - Engram also looks like a major "hit"

But offensive linemen and linebackers seem to be a major blind spot for him.
RE: RE: I wish he and Snacks were better pass rushers,  
chuckydee9 : 12/1/2017 11:11 am : link
In comment 13716233 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
In comment 13716185 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


but even without that, they've been great.



The problem is, the guys we are paying to get after the QB (JPP and OV) are note getting it done. Thats why I would be a fan of drafting a guy like Chubb. This defense desperately needs another pass rusher.


No this shows why our teams have been so bad.. we have no team building sense.. Snacks and Tomlinson are both suited for 0 Tech.. Neither is suited to play 3 tech.. a good DL has a 3 tech thats free to rush and a big run stuffer that clogs up the middle.. When you have two guys who are suited for 0 Tech then you can stop Dallas's running game but you can't generate pressure up the middle.. which limits the rushes the DEs can produce.. thats why in spite of this defense having talent they can't be great because of lack of consistent pressure up the middle and lack of LBs.. teams like GB would exploit that to no end.. with no pass rush.. Rodgers will kill any secondary ever.. and it happened to us both times we faced him last year..
So Collins got hurt week 5?  
Powerclean765 : 12/1/2017 11:13 am : link
He wasnt exactly lighting it up before then.

He looked awesome vs PIT and NYJ in preseason then disappeared.
RE: .  
chuckydee9 : 12/1/2017 11:14 am : link
In comment 13716282 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Reese has certain positions where he seems to consistently be able to find good young talent. DT one of them. He seems to scout defensive linemen, defensive backs and WR's really well - Engram also looks like a major "hit"

But offensive linemen and linebackers seem to be a major blind spot for him.


I won't say DT.. just run stuffers.. he has yet to get a penetrating DT.. His record outside of JPP is really bad for DEs as well.. plus his record with defensive backs is very poor in the drafts.. its great in FA but draft wise.. Apple, Prince and all the others have been disappointments.. with the exception of Landon Collins..
RE: RE: RE: I wish he and Snacks were better pass rushers,  
gmen9892 : 12/1/2017 11:46 am : link
In comment 13716283 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
In comment 13716233 gmen9892 said:


Quote:


In comment 13716185 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


but even without that, they've been great.



The problem is, the guys we are paying to get after the QB (JPP and OV) are note getting it done. Thats why I would be a fan of drafting a guy like Chubb. This defense desperately needs another pass rusher.



No this shows why our teams have been so bad.. we have no team building sense.. Snacks and Tomlinson are both suited for 0 Tech.. Neither is suited to play 3 tech.. a good DL has a 3 tech thats free to rush and a big run stuffer that clogs up the middle.. When you have two guys who are suited for 0 Tech then you can stop Dallas's running game but you can't generate pressure up the middle.. which limits the rushes the DEs can produce.. thats why in spite of this defense having talent they can't be great because of lack of consistent pressure up the middle and lack of LBs.. teams like GB would exploit that to no end.. with no pass rush.. Rodgers will kill any secondary ever.. and it happened to us both times we faced him last year..


Wasn't Bromley drafted to be that player? They obviously missed on that pick, but they did try to get that type of player in him.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I wish he and Snacks were better pass rushers,  
chuckydee9 : 12/1/2017 12:00 pm : link
In comment 13716373 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
In comment 13716283 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:


In comment 13716233 gmen9892 said:


Quote:


In comment 13716185 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


but even without that, they've been great.



The problem is, the guys we are paying to get after the QB (JPP and OV) are note getting it done. Thats why I would be a fan of drafting a guy like Chubb. This defense desperately needs another pass rusher.



No this shows why our teams have been so bad.. we have no team building sense.. Snacks and Tomlinson are both suited for 0 Tech.. Neither is suited to play 3 tech.. a good DL has a 3 tech thats free to rush and a big run stuffer that clogs up the middle.. When you have two guys who are suited for 0 Tech then you can stop Dallas's running game but you can't generate pressure up the middle.. which limits the rushes the DEs can produce.. thats why in spite of this defense having talent they can't be great because of lack of consistent pressure up the middle and lack of LBs.. teams like GB would exploit that to no end.. with no pass rush.. Rodgers will kill any secondary ever.. and it happened to us both times we faced him last year..



Wasn't Bromley drafted to be that player? They obviously missed on that pick, but they did try to get that type of player in him.


Thats the point.. they miss on 3 Tech DTs.. the only ones that our FO gets right are the 0 Techs.. hence the team building is weak.. I believe in taking the best available player.. but you also can't ignore the lack of pass rush up the middle..

This also is a long term issue.. We had Joseph and Hankins.. then Hankins and Snacks.. now Snacks and Tomlinson.. so this isn't a one time situation.. The FO just doesn't understand team building..
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 12/1/2017 12:01 pm : link
In comment 13716295 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
In comment 13716282 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Reese has certain positions where he seems to consistently be able to find good young talent. DT one of them. He seems to scout defensive linemen, defensive backs and WR's really well - Engram also looks like a major "hit"

But offensive linemen and linebackers seem to be a major blind spot for him.



I won't say DT.. just run stuffers.. he has yet to get a penetrating DT.. His record outside of JPP is really bad for DEs as well.. plus his record with defensive backs is very poor in the drafts.. its great in FA but draft wise.. Apple, Prince and all the others have been disappointments.. with the exception of Landon Collins..


That's being kind of nitpicky about the DT's - he's drafted some pretty good ones. Great penetrating DT's like Donald are difficult to find; there aren't a lot of them. He did draft Joseph, Hankins and Tomlinson and also signed Canty who was a good cog on a championship team.

I'm including free agency - so guys like DRC and Jenkins count. It's also not really his fault that guys like Phillips and Terrell Thomas had their careers abbreviated by injuries, either.
RE: RE: RE: .  
chuckydee9 : 12/1/2017 12:11 pm : link
In comment 13716414 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13716295 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:


In comment 13716282 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Reese has certain positions where he seems to consistently be able to find good young talent. DT one of them. He seems to scout defensive linemen, defensive backs and WR's really well - Engram also looks like a major "hit"

But offensive linemen and linebackers seem to be a major blind spot for him.



I won't say DT.. just run stuffers.. he has yet to get a penetrating DT.. His record outside of JPP is really bad for DEs as well.. plus his record with defensive backs is very poor in the drafts.. its great in FA but draft wise.. Apple, Prince and all the others have been disappointments.. with the exception of Landon Collins..



That's being kind of nitpicky about the DT's - he's drafted some pretty good ones. Great penetrating DT's like Donald are difficult to find; there aren't a lot of them. He did draft Joseph, Hankins and Tomlinson and also signed Canty who was a good cog on a championship team.

I'm including free agency - so guys like DRC and Jenkins count. It's also not really his fault that guys like Phillips and Terrell Thomas had their careers abbreviated by injuries, either.


I think you just said the same thing I said..

JR has drafted good 0 tech DTs (Run stuffers)
None are good fit for 3 Tech..

He gets great Defensive backs in FA.. Rolle, DRC, Jenkins
His drafted Defensive backs haven't performed whether because of injury or just skill level.. over a span of 10 years and many high draft picks only 1 (Landon Collins) is an above average player..
.  
arcarsenal : 12/1/2017 12:23 pm : link
Yeah, I think we mostly agree.

My point was really just that Reese has seemed to have a good eye for specific types of players/skillsets at certain positions, but complete blindspots elsewhere.

The Giants would have been well served having an assistant in the scouting department who was able to find good players in areas where Reese couldn't - but obviously we didn't have that.
RE: .  
chuckydee9 : 12/1/2017 12:58 pm : link
In comment 13716458 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Yeah, I think we mostly agree.

My point was really just that Reese has seemed to have a good eye for specific types of players/skillsets at certain positions, but complete blindspots elsewhere.

The Giants would have been well served having an assistant in the scouting department who was able to find good players in areas where Reese couldn't - but obviously we didn't have that.

Completely agree.. but it's too late now.. I hope we have a complete house cleaning.
I hate to say it, but Reese had a decent draft,  
Simms11 : 12/1/2017 6:06 pm : link
with exception of not drafting an OL early in the draft. Im still not sold on Reese, but he can definitely draft DTs.
If Reese stays  
mdc1 : 12/1/2017 7:26 pm : link
maybe he should continue to draft Saban's guys as they overcome his low threshold of talent definition and are ready to play in the leauge.
RE: RE: RE: I wish he and Snacks were better pass rushers,  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/1/2017 7:39 pm : link
In comment 13716283 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
In comment 13716233 gmen9892 said:


Quote:


In comment 13716185 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


but even without that, they've been great.



The problem is, the guys we are paying to get after the QB (JPP and OV) are note getting it done. Thats why I would be a fan of drafting a guy like Chubb. This defense desperately needs another pass rusher.



No this shows why our teams have been so bad.. we have no team building sense.. Snacks and Tomlinson are both suited for 0 Tech.. Neither is suited to play 3 tech.. a good DL has a 3 tech thats free to rush and a big run stuffer that clogs up the middle.. When you have two guys who are suited for 0 Tech then you can stop Dallas's running game but you can't generate pressure up the middle.. which limits the rushes the DEs can produce.. thats why in spite of this defense having talent they can't be great because of lack of consistent pressure up the middle and lack of LBs.. teams like GB would exploit that to no end.. with no pass rush.. Rodgers will kill any secondary ever.. and it happened to us both times we faced him last year..

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