We are emotionally tied to Eli, all of us are. He's OUR QB. And I love Eli I have nearly lost a friend over defending him too vigorously when comparing him to Big Ben but the Giants originzation needs to know whether or not Eli can still carry a team. Sure Eli is better then Gino Smith and Davis Webb.
But Eli is not paid like Gino Smith. To justify his salary Eli needs to be MUCH better then Gino Smith and Webb. He needs to be much better then average. He needs to be raise the performance of the others around him unless he Wants a 10-15 million dollar pay cut.
This is a business. The Giants haven't made the playoffs in five of the last 6 years. They haven't scored 30 points in two years. They are averaging 13 points over the last 5 games. At what point can we ask if this is not partly the QBs fault?
I saw someone call this a tank job. That's ridiculous. Have they been tanking for 5 seasons? They are already losing. Their offense is already one of the three worst in the league it's not like they are likely to get worse in offense.
What if Gino or Webb provide similar production at a much much reduced price? There is a finite allocation of resources for a NFL team and the question is not whether or not Eli is the best starting QB for the Giants it's whether or not his value on the field is still commiserate with his very high salary cap hit move forward. I suspect it's definitely not. Being a franchise QB means elevating the play of others around you.
If Eli has a good line and good receivers and a good RB he'd be much better! Yeah well so would some guy you could draft in the fourth round and pay $400,000 a year for four years (hello Dak Prescott)
If Gino and Davis Webb look competent the next five weeks and score 20-25 points a game then the Giants know. If the offense looks the same then they know. They know what we already know but don't want to admit:
Eli is still a starting caliber QB, but average at best and for our New York Giants that's just not good enough.
Carson Palmer, Arizona, $24.125 million
Kirk Cousins, Washington, $23.943 million
Matt Ryan, Atlanta, $23.75 million
Matthew Stafford, Detroit, $22 million
Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay, $20.3 million
Cam Newton, Carolina, $20.166 million
Philip Rivers, Los Angeles Chargers, $20 million
Eli Manning, N.Y. Giants, $19.7 million
Andrew Luck, Indianapolis, $19.4 million
Drew Brees, New Orleans, $19 million
Russell Wilson, Seattle, $18.8 million
Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh, $18.2 million
Sam Bradford, Minnesota, $18 million
Alex Smith, Kansas City, $16.9 million
Derek Carr, Oakland, $15.7 million
Andy Dalton, Cincinnati, $15.7 million
Tom Brady, New England, $14 million
Mike Glennon, Chicago, $14 million
Jay Cutler, Miami, $10 million
Tyrod Taylor, Buffalo, $9.7 million
Jameis Winston, Tampa Bay, $6.9 million
Marcus Mariota, Tennessee, $6.6 million
Blake Bortles, Jacksonville, $6.57 million
Josh McCown, N.Y. Jets, $6.5 million
Jared Goff, L.A. Rams, $6.4 million
Carson Wentz, Philadelphia, $6 million
Brian Hoyer, San Francisco, $5.3 million
DeShone Kizer, Cleveland, $899,711
Tom Savage, Houston, $765,146
Dak Prescott, Dallas, $635,848
Trever Siemian, Denver, $628,196
Now how many on that list have worse talent situations in total or worse coaching...
And his salary would not have prevented them from signing say LT Andrew Whitworth (who is playing at a Pro-Bowl level) or any other free agent OL because Reese wanted "to go with what we have younger guys"...
It didn't prevent them from signing Brandon Marshall...
They also could have resigned Hankins but chose not to on defense...
Our own Sy has said he is in the worst situation for a QB in the league...Pat Kirwin and Cosell have both gone on record he is good enough...
It is a cumulative effect on the timing of a QB to have a shit OL like he has for the last 4 years...
Throw in no running game with a shit scheme and coach is a no win situation for any QB...
They both have surrounding-talent -deficiency issues. They both are old. The one in green is clearly out-performing the one in blue. But neither is going to be the quarterback of their respective teams when they are playoff contenders .
PS The names of the quarterbacks have been intentionally withheld so as to avoid cheap, emotional , knee-jerk responses. We are dealing with the current slate of realities .
And, no, the guy in blue is no longer good enough. There aren't enough draft choices or free-agent dollars to spend to make him so, although they can certainly engage in an off-season orgy to do do just that .
They both have surrounding-talent -deficiency issues. They both are old. The one in green is clearly out-performing the one in blue. But neither is going to be the quarterback of their respective teams when they are playoff contenders .
PS The names of the quarterbacks have been intentionally withheld so as to avoid cheap, emotional , knee-jerk responses. We are dealing with the current slate of realities .
And, no, the guy in blue is no longer good enough. There aren't enough draft choices or free-agent dollars to spend to make him so, although they can certainly engage in an off-season orgy to do do just that .
It's fairly obvious that in your days as "a damn good coach" as you put it, player evaluation certain wasn't and still isn't your strong point, especially on the offensive side of the ball. Stick to evaluating defensive players.
So your idea is that Eli should play for free? It really is not hard to educate yourself on a player's contract before throwing out ridiculous proposals.
Eli's Contract - ( New Window )
They both have surrounding-talent -deficiency issues. They both are old. The one in green is clearly out-performing the one in blue. But neither is going to be the quarterback of their respective teams when they are playoff contenders .
PS The names of the quarterbacks have been intentionally withheld so as to avoid cheap, emotional , knee-jerk responses. We are dealing with the current slate of realities .
And, no, the guy in blue is no longer good enough. There aren't enough draft choices or free-agent dollars to spend to make him so, although they can certainly engage in an off-season orgy to do do just that .
Just so we're clear. You're saying that today, right now, Josh McCown is a better QB than Eli? My lord some just really have no freaking clue.
All of the above has resulted in his decline in the most critical area - in that he is no longer beating defenses with the attributes he has...
They both have surrounding-talent -deficiency issues. They both are old. The one in green is clearly out-performing the one in blue. But neither is going to be the quarterback of their respective teams when they are playoff contenders .
PS The names of the quarterbacks have been intentionally withheld so as to avoid cheap, emotional , knee-jerk responses. We are dealing with the current slate of realities .
And, no, the guy in blue is no longer good enough. There aren't enough draft choices or free-agent dollars to spend to make him so, although they can certainly engage in an off-season orgy to do do just that .
You cant just look at stats as they really dont account for circumstances. Anyone who watches both teams could easily see a broken offense for the giants, while the jets have a decent system in place. Even when there line is not playing well, they can still run around the edges or up the middle. They still have a receiver in anderson who is making plays. There defense at times have held leads. All that will translate to more wins. Eli for some of his flaws doesnot have a decent running game. Does not have the luxury of time to throw a 35 yard pattern, and if he does the pass has been dropped by a decimated wr corp. This is in the face of an offense that many in the league have stated has been figured out. With our back against the wall, we will likely respond with 11 personnel. The routes are being sat on in the intermediate and long zones, leaving the team with 3 to 5 yard patterns. The only hope mcadoo is looking to is a qb that can scramble and buy time for wr to make a play. Thats where eli is truly deficient. But that also is the problem of building an offense that dont take into account your qbs skill set. This is not an eli problem, its an organizational problem. We suck on offense because the coach, the gm, and the owner fell in love with a system that does not fit the players we have.
Educate yourself on how an offensive and defensive system works with players doing their jobs so others can do theirs. No position is really ever blameless, but asking the position that sees the ball more than other player to overcome pass protection (something has been going on for many seasons, and as FMIC says has a cumulative affect) and which looks like now is an offensive scheme that isn't hard to defend you get the results you have.
Read the Gilbride interview posted yesterday, and understand that while it's possible for an offensive expert like Gilbride to be wrong, it's not likely in this case. Perhaps understand that coaches study tape for hours on end for a reason, vs us fans sitting and watching the game for entertainment purposes.
Bill Belichick as a part of his hiring process has coaches sit in a film room by themselves and disect film so they can draw by hand the routes the offense ran on the play and the coverage and possible responsibilities of the defense on the respective play. I don't think many of us fans can do that.
My thinking on a play where it seems obvious what team should do, but they don't do it is there has to be something i'm missing. these guys (at least the ones who have earned the right) are experts, how could i as a fan know what to do, and they don't? At that point i submit myself to their expertise rather than my own self education as a fan. Can coaches be wrong? Absolutely, but I think one of the biggest things that coaches deal with is personal pride, which means they continue doing the same thing because they don't want to admit defeat of their certain scheme or gameplan. I don't think its often that good coaches get the x's and o's wrong.
All of the above has resulted in his decline in the most critical area - in that he is no longer beating defenses with the attributes he has...
I guess you don't feel the Kevin Gilbrides and Terry Bradshaws of the world don't represent their opinions with much or with any education.
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who play their home games at Met Life. One wears blue; one green. One gets paid approximately 20 million a year; thr other is guaranteed 6 million plus 125K for every game he starts. That would be in the one in green, who is clearly outplaying the one in blue.
They both have surrounding-talent -deficiency issues. They both are old. The one in green is clearly out-performing the one in blue. But neither is going to be the quarterback of their respective teams when they are playoff contenders .
PS The names of the quarterbacks have been intentionally withheld so as to avoid cheap, emotional , knee-jerk responses. We are dealing with the current slate of realities .
And, no, the guy in blue is no longer good enough. There aren't enough draft choices or free-agent dollars to spend to make him so, although they can certainly engage in an off-season orgy to do do just that .
Just so we're clear. You're saying that today, right now, Josh McCown is a better QB than Eli? My lord some just really have no freaking clue.
He's saying one is clearly out playing the other. McCown WR and Robby Anderson (is he at good?) and a bunch of cast offs. His RB is nothing special either. THeir Ol isn't pretty either.
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Joe Flacco, Baltimore, $24.55 million
Carson Palmer, Arizona, $24.125 million
Kirk Cousins, Washington, $23.943 million
Matt Ryan, Atlanta, $23.75 million
Matthew Stafford, Detroit, $22 million
Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay, $20.3 million
Cam Newton, Carolina, $20.166 million
Philip Rivers, Los Angeles Chargers, $20 million
Eli Manning, N.Y. Giants, $19.7 million
Andrew Luck, Indianapolis, $19.4 million
Drew Brees, New Orleans, $19 million
Russell Wilson, Seattle, $18.8 million
Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh, $18.2 million
Sam Bradford, Minnesota, $18 million
Alex Smith, Kansas City, $16.9 million
Derek Carr, Oakland, $15.7 million
Andy Dalton, Cincinnati, $15.7 million
Tom Brady, New England, $14 million
Mike Glennon, Chicago, $14 million
Jay Cutler, Miami, $10 million
Tyrod Taylor, Buffalo, $9.7 million
Jameis Winston, Tampa Bay, $6.9 million
Marcus Mariota, Tennessee, $6.6 million
Blake Bortles, Jacksonville, $6.57 million
Josh McCown, N.Y. Jets, $6.5 million
Jared Goff, L.A. Rams, $6.4 million
Carson Wentz, Philadelphia, $6 million
Brian Hoyer, San Francisco, $5.3 million
DeShone Kizer, Cleveland, $899,711
Tom Savage, Houston, $765,146
Dak Prescott, Dallas, $635,848
Trever Siemian, Denver, $628,196
Now how many on that list have worse talent situations in total or worse coaching...
And his salary would not have prevented them from signing say LT Andrew Whitworth (who is playing at a Pro-Bowl level) or any other free agent OL because Reese wanted "to go with what we have younger guys"...
It didn't prevent them from signing Brandon Marshall...
They also could have resigned Hankins but chose not to on defense...
Our own Sy has said he is in the worst situation for a QB in the league...Pat Kirwin and Cosell have both gone on record he is good enough...
It is a cumulative effect on the timing of a QB to have a shit OL like he has for the last 4 years...
Throw in no running game with a shit scheme and coach is a no win situation for any QB...
That's the dirty secret here. Many of them have similar surrounding parts. OL play throughout the entire league is poor. And Eli has had a generational talent at WR for a large portion of games where they haven't scored points. What is Kirk Coauina playing with? The Vikings?
Good QB play mkws everyone else look better. Eli isn't doing that anymore.
So your idea is that Eli should play for free? It really is not hard to educate yourself on a player's contract before throwing out ridiculous proposals. Eli's Contract - ( New Window )
I want Eli to play better.
Yes agree. QBs need to make other guys better. If a quarterback needs a top oline , and good WR and a tight end, and a running back... any NFL QB can succeed with the best talent around them.
They handled it by allowing him to continue to start and he chose not to.
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In comment 13717619 RetroJint said:
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who play their home games at Met Life. One wears blue; one green. One gets paid approximately 20 million a year; thr other is guaranteed 6 million plus 125K for every game he starts. That would be in the one in green, who is clearly outplaying the one in blue.
They both have surrounding-talent -deficiency issues. They both are old. The one in green is clearly out-performing the one in blue. But neither is going to be the quarterback of their respective teams when they are playoff contenders .
PS The names of the quarterbacks have been intentionally withheld so as to avoid cheap, emotional , knee-jerk responses. We are dealing with the current slate of realities .
And, no, the guy in blue is no longer good enough. There aren't enough draft choices or free-agent dollars to spend to make him so, although they can certainly engage in an off-season orgy to do do just that .
Just so we're clear. You're saying that today, right now, Josh McCown is a better QB than Eli? My lord some just really have no freaking clue.
He's saying one is clearly out playing the other. McCown WR and Robby Anderson (is he at good?) and a bunch of cast offs. His RB is nothing special either. THeir Ol isn't pretty either.
To me there is nothing clear about it. It's easy on the surface to find teams that appear to have the same problems, but evaluation players isn't something that should just be done on the surface imo.
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who play their home games at Met Life. One wears blue; one green. One gets paid approximately 20 million a year; thr other is guaranteed 6 million plus 125K for every game he starts. That would be in the one in green, who is clearly outplaying the one in blue.
They both have surrounding-talent -deficiency issues. They both are old. The one in green is clearly out-performing the one in blue. But neither is going to be the quarterback of their respective teams when they are playoff contenders .
PS The names of the quarterbacks have been intentionally withheld so as to avoid cheap, emotional , knee-jerk responses. We are dealing with the current slate of realities .
And, no, the guy in blue is no longer good enough. There aren't enough draft choices or free-agent dollars to spend to make him so, although they can certainly engage in an off-season orgy to do do just that .
You cant just look at stats as they really dont account for circumstances. Anyone who watches both teams could easily see a broken offense for the giants, while the jets have a decent system in place. Even when there line is not playing well, they can still run around the edges or up the middle. They still have a receiver in anderson who is making plays. There defense at times have held leads. All that will translate to more wins. Eli for some of his flaws doesnot have a decent running game. Does not have the luxury of time to throw a 35 yard pattern, and if he does the pass has been dropped by a decimated wr corp. This is in the face of an offense that many in the league have stated has been figured out. With our back against the wall, we will likely respond with 11 personnel. The routes are being sat on in the intermediate and long zones, leaving the team with 3 to 5 yard patterns. The only hope mcadoo is looking to is a qb that can scramble and buy time for wr to make a play. Thats where eli is truly deficient. But that also is the problem of building an offense that dont take into account your qbs skill set. This is not an eli problem, its an organizational problem. We suck on offense because the coach, the gm, and the owner fell in love with a system that does not fit the players we have.
The last offensive system Eli was in the owner came out and said the offense is broken and they got him a new one.
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Just isn't good enough anymore. It's always the Oline, WR's, defense etc..but eventually he needs to be held accountable. The offense is atrocious and has been for quite some time...that's the issue. It's time to move on. Thanks for everything Eli!
Yes agree. QBs need to make other guys better. If a quarterback needs a top oline , and good WR and a tight end, and a running back... any NFL QB can succeed with the best talent around them.
Eli doesn't need super talent or super execution at other positions, Yes that would make it easy for any qb to succeed, but what is your definition of succeed?
Does Mac's offense put the players in a position to succeed, or should the players be able to succeed no matter the scheme?
[quote] He is only making $13M in salary this season. Next year, he only makes $10.5M, and in 2019, he is slated to earn $11M salary.
So your idea is that Eli should play for free? It really is not hard to educate yourself on a player's contract before throwing out ridiculous proposals. Eli's Contract - ( New Window )
You're picking out one misstep in an argument to misdirected from my over-arching theme. Giants owe it to the organization to see if Eli is part of the problem and only way to do that is to look at other guys.
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In comment 13717643 brunswick said:
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Just isn't good enough anymore. It's always the Oline, WR's, defense etc..but eventually he needs to be held accountable. The offense is atrocious and has been for quite some time...that's the issue. It's time to move on. Thanks for everything Eli!
Yes agree. QBs need to make other guys better. If a quarterback needs a top oline , and good WR and a tight end, and a running back... any NFL QB can succeed with the best talent around them.
Eli doesn't need super talent or super execution at other positions, Yes that would make it easy for any qb to succeed, but what is your definition of succeed?
Does Mac's offense put the players in a position to succeed, or should the players be able to succeed no matter the scheme?
Offense should score more than 13 points a game over a month. Should be able to score 30 points once I. A while. Gilbride was also fired for offensive system problems if I recall correctly. What's the system Eli can still succeed in or is it always the Oline fault or the WR fault or The RB Fault?
Well the offense wasn't broken...read Gilbride's comments...it turns out the talent on the OL was broken...
But the clueless owner let the clueless GM convince him of that...
The OL was showing signs according to gilbride after 09. The fans really saw it in 11, the were some misses on the OL, Brewer, Bass to name a few that didn't work out, as well as Snee's premature physical break down. Nicks was never the same after the early part of 2012, due to his legs. Cruz seemed to disappear once teams didn't have to worry about Nicks anymore, the TE position has been void. Etc etc etc.
To use Cosell's word "dependent", football is a very dependent sport, as in you depend on other players doing their jobs good enough for you to do your job.
Take for example a run play, if one player on the OL, or anywhere for that matter misses his assignment or gets beat badly enough it can easily ruin the whole play. The point isn't to be perfect everyone play, but be good enough. Gilbride used that term "good enough" to describe the OL in 11, they were just good enough.
As for qb play, i see where a lot of fans say Manning carried that team single handedly. That just doesn't really happen in football, Manning was awesome in 11, but he got just good enough from the OL, Bradshaw and Jacobs were good enough to be a threat in the run game, and the trio of Manningham, Cruz, and Nicks were a real threat. The point is, that qb gets too much credit when things go good (see 2011) and too much blame when things go bad (see the last few years)
I think I'll take their evaluation on whether Eli is in "decline" or not over yours.
“What I know is this guy’s going to be prepared. He’ll always be as selfless, as hard working, as professional as you could ask anybody to be. When I do watch him on film I see a guy who’s arm strength is still the same.
“As I’ve said on numerous occasions will never and never has solved problems with his feet. He’s not gonna do that. He can solve it with his arm, he can solve it with his brains, he can solve it with his heart. But, if you’re asking this guy to solve problems because of difficulty with protection and what have you with his feet you’ve got the wrong guy. That’s not who he is.”
Cossell:
The Giants front office and McAdoo are the ones that failed.
The way they handled the Eli situation this week was way off. But the overall point, that they're soon going to *HAVE* to go in a different direction, is true and is going to happen; and the first step starts at this upcoming draft.
The way they handled the Eli situation this week was way off. But the overall point, that they're soon going to *HAVE* to go in a different direction, is true and is going to happen; and the first step starts at this upcoming draft.
Yup. The rest is just useless chatter.
Nowadays improvising with solid footwork, escapability and short passing game skills are what is needed. He was never very good at those but serviceable enough around the pocket to make things work. Now he is well-below serviceable and its killing us to keep drives alive.
Eli used to be deadly on deeper throws to Plax and then Nicks/Cruz. Over the past few years he simply has not been when given the time & circumstances. Sometimes he reaches the guy but the throw is not accurate, other times he underthrows but is on line. Yet other times he is off on both. That is a function of time catching up with him.
I don't need Gilbride to tell me what I have seen plain as day over the past 2+ years...
Nowadays improvising with solid footwork, escapability and short passing game skills are what is needed. He was never very good at those but serviceable enough around the pocket to make things work. Now he is well-below serviceable and its killing us to keep drives alive.
Eli used to be deadly on deeper throws to Plax and then Nicks/Cruz. Over the past few years he simply has not been when given the time & circumstances. Sometimes he reaches the guy but the throw is not accurate, other times he underthrows but is on line. Yet other times he is off on both. That is a function of time catching up with him.
I don't need Gilbride to tell me what I have seen plain as day over the past 2+ years...
Well, the Giants GM position is going to open up here shortly, since you're so qualified you should apply.
Sorry you don't see it the same way...
I'm guessing you don't take your Dr's advice either?
Who the hell wants to wait for that happen while Eli plays wet-nurse?
Better yet, is it more a certainty to replace Eli and the other 8-9 others guys that suck on this offense?
Even moreso, why don't we try to replace Eli with a guy that may be able to run the position better under duress, and still do a good job from the pocket too?
Where do you want to go with this...I think Eli is done or at least a "shade" of done. If you don't then so be it, but I do. Now go and send Gilbride a Christmas Card for the good cheer...
So your idea is that Eli should play for free? It really is not hard to educate yourself on a player's contract before throwing out ridiculous proposals. Eli's Contract - ( New Window )
Who the hell wants to wait for that happen while Eli plays wet-nurse?
Better yet, is it more a certainty to replace Eli and the other 8-9 others guys that suck on this offense?
Even moreso, why don't we try to replace Eli with a guy that may be able to run the position better under duress, and still do a good job from the pocket too?
Where do you want to go with this...I think Eli is done or at least a "shade" of done. If you don't then so be it, but I do. Now go and send Gilbride a Christmas Card for the good cheer...
Forget Gilbride, look at what Cossell said:
Doesn't matter who's back there, that's the reality.
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He is only making $13M in salary this season. Next year, he only makes $10.5M, and in 2019, he is slated to earn $11M salary.
So your idea is that Eli should play for free? It really is not hard to educate yourself on a player's contract before throwing out ridiculous proposals. Eli's Contract - ( New Window )
I know the salary cap can be a bit confusing. But, I still find it surprising that so many people still don't understand a player's cap hit is not his salary. Is it so hard to grasp their guaranteed money is spread out over the lice of the contract. And, salaries, as the case with Eli, are often front loaded and decline each year to lessen the cap hit in the event of cutting the player, which is much more likely in the final 1-2 years of a deal.
Thank you. It isn't that hard. If people don't like his overall contract and the cap implications of a signing bonus, then their ire is directed at the wrong man. Blame Jerry.
People constantly trumpet that he is not worth $20M/yr. He has only once exceeded $18M in cash during his current contract and that was the first year (2015). But then again, this week we have seen Eli age from his actual 36 years to being a 38 year old geriatric.
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is the same guy as before and we just a need a different team around him to make that work. I'll give it to you. So now what?...
Who the hell wants to wait for that happen while Eli plays wet-nurse?
Better yet, is it more a certainty to replace Eli and the other 8-9 others guys that suck on this offense?
Even moreso, why don't we try to replace Eli with a guy that may be able to run the position better under duress, and still do a good job from the pocket too?
Where do you want to go with this...I think Eli is done or at least a "shade" of done. If you don't then so be it, but I do. Now go and send Gilbride a Christmas Card for the good cheer...
Forget Gilbride, look at what Cossell said:
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There’s nothing for him to depend on right now within an offense that’s bad in every single area.”
Doesn't matter who's back there, that's the reality.
My plan for next year was, and has always been to draft Eli's replacement and then begin rebuilding the team. You keep Eli in there to give you a chance to win while you are transitioning, and then you have options moving forward.
They pretty much blew up that plan this week, out of sheer incompetence.
Mike Glennon made 14 million this year. Let that sink in for a second. Who would you rather have mentoring your young QB next year? Mike Glennon at 14 million, or Eli at roughly the same?
he has been one of the highest paid QBs since his last contract
he has been a large cap hit for the past 4 years
so it is valid to question has Eli been worth the money
as I said before
Eli might not be the problem of what is wrong with Giants this year
but that doesn't mean he is part of the solution to fix the Giants
I do think this offense would be a heck of a lot better with a competent scheme.
As for you making light of me agreeing with Kevin Gilbride on why the Giants offense is atrocious I'm fine with that. You haven't shown any reason why you should be taken seriously over coaches and former players who have said the same. I understand having an opinion, but when we expect our uneducated opinions to be of a higher regard than others who have lived and breathed the profession it becomes silly in my opinion.
You'd rather have a 3rd round project pick mentor a Top 3 Draft pick?
Sound logic.
Fairly certain many in the media and sport today do not want to be portrayed as throwing Eli "under the bus" so do not come out openly and say similar comments. He is a good guy and has had plenty of success over a great college and pro career.
But everything ends...and sometimes it ends badly.
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...
You'd rather have a 3rd round project pick mentor a Top 3 Draft pick?
Sound logic.
The mentor thing is likely over-rated. At some point we should rely on the 15 different coaches a team employs. If we need a veteran voice in the room, I am sure we can find another one that is cheaper than Eli.
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Gilbride said flatly that “I do not see a significant dropoff” in Manning’s play.
“What I know is this guy’s going to be prepared. He’ll always be as selfless, as hard working, as professional as you could ask anybody to be. When I do watch him on film I see a guy who’s arm strength is still the same.
“As I’ve said on numerous occasions will never and never has solved problems with his feet. He’s not gonna do that. He can solve it with his arm, he can solve it with his brains, he can solve it with his heart. But, if you’re asking this guy to solve problems because of difficulty with protection and what have you with his feet you’ve got the wrong guy. That’s not who he is.”
Cossell:
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Cosell on Eli the player: “It’s a bad offense, and has been for a while, and there’s many factors that go into that, and the QB bears the brunt of it. That’s just the reality of life in the NFL. I would say that it’s a team with a poor OL. It’s a team that can’t run the football, and Eli is a ‘dependent’ QB – Eli is dependent on the rest of the team to be successful. So right now, the ‘dependent’ parts are totally lacking, and he can’t be successful on any kind of consistent basis. It’s not a function of if he’s lost his ability to throw a football, he’s not lost his ability to understand the game and control a game at the line of scrimmage. He’s not lost his ability, but his style of QB’ing...he’s a ‘dependent’ player. There’s nothing for him to depend on right now within an offense that’s bad in every single area.”
The Giants front office and McAdoo are the ones that failed.
Who the hell wants to wait for that happen while Eli plays wet-nurse?
Better yet, is it more a certainty to replace Eli and the other 8-9 others guys that suck on this offense?
Even moreso, why don't we try to replace Eli with a guy that may be able to run the position better under duress, and still do a good job from the pocket too?
Where do you want to go with this...I think Eli is done or at least a "shade" of done. If you don't then so be it, but I do. Now go and send Gilbride a Christmas Card for the good cheer...
They don't wanna hear it.
Offensive line play round the league is awful if you can't make plays despite that then you can't succeed. Eli doesn't have the wheels or consistent accuracy to make plays any more.
QB is the most important position on the football field if h can't win you games yuh have to be looking elsewhere. It's painfully clear that Eli can no longer do that but people wanna blame everyone else.
Look at that Texans with Watson thirty plus points a game with Savage? Awful. Packers with Rodgers great without Rodgers awful?
There are plenty of offensive defencies for the Giants I just happen yo believe Eli is one of them.
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In comment 13717649 map7711 said:
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In comment 13717619 RetroJint said:
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who play their home games at Met Life. One wears blue; one green. One gets paid approximately 20 million a year; thr other is guaranteed 6 million plus 125K for every game he starts. That would be in the one in green, who is clearly outplaying the one in blue.
They both have surrounding-talent -deficiency issues. They both are old. The one in green is clearly out-performing the one in blue. But neither is going to be the quarterback of their respective teams when they are playoff contenders .
PS The names of the quarterbacks have been intentionally withheld so as to avoid cheap, emotional , knee-jerk responses. We are dealing with the current slate of realities .
And, no, the guy in blue is no longer good enough. There aren't enough draft choices or free-agent dollars to spend to make him so, although they can certainly engage in an off-season orgy to do do just that .
Just so we're clear. You're saying that today, right now, Josh McCown is a better QB than Eli? My lord some just really have no freaking clue.
He's saying one is clearly out playing the other. McCown WR and Robby Anderson (is he at good?) and a bunch of cast offs. His RB is nothing special either. THeir Ol isn't pretty either.
To me there is nothing clear about it. It's easy on the surface to find teams that appear to have the same problems, but evaluation players isn't something that should just be done on the surface imo.
They haven't scored 30 points in a game in two years. Let's let someone else try. What the worst that happens? We don't score any points. We're already doing that
They both have surrounding-talent -deficiency issues. They both are old. The one in green is clearly out-performing the one in blue. But neither is going to be the quarterback of their respective teams when they are playoff contenders .
PS The names of the quarterbacks have been intentionally withheld so as to avoid cheap, emotional , knee-jerk responses. We are dealing with the current slate of realities .
And, no, the guy in blue is no longer good enough. There aren't enough draft choices or free-agent dollars to spend to make him so, although they can certainly engage in an off-season orgy to do do just that .
Well said, Retro.
You have one play maker on offense a rookie who seems to have a case of the drop's no QB is good enough to win games
with this rag tag bunch .
2) Even within this calendar year Eli looked good in the playoff game and was let down by others on offense, one game sure, but he did look good in the biggest game. The bigger the game the better he plays. Good luck finding another QB like that.
3) The idea there are no teams who can pass protect or who can provide enough of a physical run threat to allow for a play action threat is absurd. The Giants are abysmal at both and have been. They can not consistently protect and although the run game stats have improved some what since Sullivan became play caller, the Giants are a weak rushing team and have been for many seasons. The Saints keep Brees upright and he can't move either. He also dumps it to Kamara who is a playmaker. This team starts backups or worse at RB. You can win in this league with pocket passers still. I think the seasons long problem of lack of play action threat is a major issue. The Giants are so non physical on offense it is like half a scrimmage for the opposition defense.
3) Sure Watson looked good, there was no pro tape on him yet and he popped a knee two games into his career. Eli played 200 plus in a row. So, many argue that you need a running QB to succeed now. But, there are many risks with that style of play.
4) I watch almost every Jet game, I have many Jet fan friends and they have gone a lifetime without ever seeing their team in the Super Bowl. In addition, they have been watching the Jets play find a QB and find a head coach their whole sports watching lives. It is VERY difficult to find a franchise QB. The Giants have already played round one of find head coach, how did that work out? Everyone should be very aware of how difficult it will be to replace Eli. The team should be damn sure he is done as dinner before he is tossed aside like garbage.
Also, by my eyes the Jets run the ball better than the Giants this year and also pass protect better. So I am not sure if it is apples to apples with the Jet QB. The Jets have a functional line.