are getting way too much say in these things. McAdoo wants to keep coaching . The love affair with Eli , from the fans' perspective will end with his next 4 interception game. To an extent , the pro-Eli demonstration was more anti-Ben venom wrapped in an Eli sugar wafer.
McAdoo is going through a nightmarish season . He's a strong guy. He's not going to hide in Reno's casinos for the rest of his life. Don't use this seemingly sympathetic cop-out for firing him. The fans have blood lust. Mara is a coward. That's why it will happen tomorrow but spare us the noble motivation. Thing about McAdoo is that he has remained strong throughout this disintegration of a season. He wasn't ready for this job.
If a coach’s job is to give his team the best chance of winning the next game, then replacing Eli with Smith is very defensible. Smith is more athletic than Eli and not as shell shocked. He showed today he can escape pressure and make accurate throws short and down the field.
But this is not about winning the next game and pulling Eli was a PR disaster.
And before anyone cites Smith’s 2 fumbles, let it be noted that Eli has been very fumble prone.
If owners don't realize that firing Mac is not the answer to Â
Revitalizing this franchise than we are back to 1968. The FO needs to be restructured and restocked. We need a 2018 model George Young and go from there.
Well maybe. But in this case fans are paying customers. Seat licenses and season tickets are hardly inexpensive. And a last hear as an outlier should you ignore your paying customer. It’s like a
Chef of keeps putting out shitty food. And the restaurant owner saying. Well we’ve Replaced some staff but even though the food sucks keep coming in?
And even with 11 wins the offense was putrid and hard to watch. They are lucky their buseness is almost immune to failure. Most business that suck for 5 or more years go under. They shouldn’t for McAdoo for most the fans sake. But for the fact that he’s not good at his job. This last weeks show was a huge blunder. If he’s going to be fired anyway what to keep some paying customers happy. This isn’t a charity. People pay for tickets. Pay for NFL on DirecTV etc.
Trying to keep paying customers happy is upper managements job. Saying they should ignore them is stupid. But then again the NFL seems for he last few years to be fine deaf ona lot. I almost think
Mara wanted to keep him before this Manning shit show
but fans are given to extreme reactions. Fans want to fire everyone. Fans don't think deeper than surface level. Fans tend not to take context and circumstance into account. Fans want short-term gratification. Fans live in the moment and have very short memories. Fans don't have consequences for thinking this way.
but fans are given to extreme reactions. Fans want to fire everyone. Fans don't think deeper than surface level. Fans tend not to take context and circumstance into account. Fans want short-term gratification. Fans live in the moment and have very short memories. Fans don't have consequences for thinking this way.
There’s over reaction. And some of this Eli stuff is certainly over reacting. I even said he shouldn’t be fired simply because of this Eli mess. I’m pretty sure McAdoo is facing most of the fire when he wasn’t alone.
But at this point as I said. if he’s going to be fired in a few weeks anyway he may as well at least calm your customers. And saying fans are short sighted or reactionary doesn’t make them always wrong Or right. But when it may cost someone about $1000 to Attend a game you it’s bad to want to see a good played game. The team has been crappy a while. I
Suggest the years of bad football is why there is so
Much outrage.
but fans are given to extreme reactions. Fans want to fire everyone. Fans don't think deeper than surface level. Fans tend not to take context and circumstance into account. Fans want short-term gratification. Fans live in the moment and have very short memories. Fans don't have consequences for thinking this way.
There’s over reaction. And some of this Eli stuff is certainly over reacting. I even said he shouldn’t be fired simply because of this Eli mess. I’m pretty sure McAdoo is facing most of the fire when he wasn’t alone.
But at this point as I said. if he’s going to be fired in a few weeks anyway he may as well at least calm your customers. And saying fans are short sighted or reactionary doesn’t make them always wrong Or right. But when it may cost someone about $1000 to Attend a game you it’s bad to want to see a good played game. The team has been crappy a while. I
Suggest the years of bad football is why there is so
Much outrage.
I don't think there's anything unreasonable about what you said.
I'd like to know more about what exactly happened with this Eli thing. If it's a case of BM or Reese selling a plan to Mara and then doing something unexpected, then it would've been 100% accepted if he was fired on the spot. Mara seemed to imply that what he was told and how it was done were two different things.
to do with the fans, and it has everything to do with a complete failure in the locker room, in the press room, and on the field. Ben Macadoo has made this great organization look terrible on multiple occasions, and IMO that is evidence enough to warrant his dismissal.
Revitalizing this franchise than we are back to 1968. The FO needs to be restructured and restocked. We need a 2018 model George Young and go from there.
Firing Mac would be a good start and is part of the solution. The man is damaged goods at this point, and beyond recovery
RE: Only a moron would base hiring and firing of top management... Â
Agree, but this now goes much deeper than just the everyday fans. Mara and Tisch are being hit hard by season ticket holders and sponsors. Watch how threats to hit them in the wallet (where it hurts) will accelerate major change at the top. Prior to the benching of Eli, the calls from fans to dump Mac fell on deaf ears.
Uncomfortable watching Eli get emotional, but let's put things in perspective - Eli is a millionaire, getting paid a king's ransom to play a kid's game. Eli will be fine.
I'm okay with starting Geno. No run game, inability to pass protect - Geno more mobile might help. Additionally, playoff hunt, long over - really never began, so, let's see what we have behind Eli because he is not going to play forever. Real games are real test of ability, not preseason. The move makes sense on several levels.
Former players want to protest on sidelines during game - I wouldn't let them if I was management. Grateful for your contributions to Giant's nation; however, management cannot and should not allow that.
Not sure I'd fire McAdoo. I should preface that by saying, I'm not qualified to make the decision to hire or fire an NFL coach. There are less than a handful of people on BBI, if that, who can render an informed, intelligent opinion on whether Mac should be fired. It is important to note, that Mac was an 11-5 playoff coach last year and they lost some close games this year with some major injuries. They competed in yesterday's game yesterday with a backup QB and a team ravaged by injuries. For all those screaming and crying for Eli to be avenged - wipe the tears from your eyes and and look at the situation objectively. Still may arrive at the same decision, but the wailing and gnashing of teeth and hatred of Mac re: this - WTF?
To my mind, in hindsight, the biggest mistake may have been ignoring Gilbride's warnings that the OLine needed refreshing - athletes age quickly, especially in the trenches - in a violent, brutal game. That decision to ignore him, begat the conclusion that the "offense was broken". That conclusion begat the decision to bring in a new OC. Most important, the new OC was a West Coast disciple. This decision was based on the assumption that a QB in his mid 30s, who has won two Lombardis with non west coast offenses, could and should be asked to transition to a west coast offense.
Eli being the great soldier that he is did his best to make the transition. They had some success and made the playoffs last year. The claims that Mac is an idiot, can't coach is based on selective use of the facts.
Where do we go from here? IMO, Eli has enough gas in the tank to make another run. The million dollar question is which offensive system is going to put him in the best position to succeed? The 2 million dollar question is which personnel are the best supporting cast to fit that system? The 3 million dollar question is who is the GM most likely to make those personnel decisions.
If it was my call, and I am thoroughly unqualified to make that call, if the WC is not the best system for ELi - I go on another direction for HC, bring in someone with HC experience - window too small to gamble that someone will grow into the position. That would make me look at guys like Smith or even McDaniels. But, first I would get another GM. If you are going to give another GM a try, that is the move you make today, not firing Mac.
Finally and most important - I would demand that the Maras conduct an investigation, call in CSI and identify every bad decision made and more importantly, which of those decisions had a Mara's fingerprints on it. And, then aks themselves - should we take a more hands off approach re: the franchise.
when they win he's a passenger, when they lose it's all his fault. never mind injuries, personnel.
He presided over one of the worst year over year offensive downfalls in league history. He made no substantive improvement in any area a head coach oversees. The injuries are now even worse than under Coughlin. The clock management on offense is even worse.
Do you think he actually had any hand in improving the defense?
He comports himself as some type of Belichick without the credentials.
If a coach’s job is to give his team the best chance of winning the next game, then replacing Eli with Smith is very defensible. Smith is more athletic than Eli and not as shell shocked. He showed today he can escape pressure and make accurate throws short and down the field.
But this is not about winning the next game and pulling Eli was a PR disaster.
And before anyone cites Smith’s 2 fumbles, let it be noted that Eli has been very fumble prone.
It's an offensive line managed by his hand-picked OL coach and overseen by his staff and run as part of his offensive scheme.
So it's on McAdoo too. Maybe not as much as Reese, but perhaps a 60-40. McAdoo has been here four years. Two as HC. He doesn't get to walk away from the OL mess without blame for it as well.
on the OLine issues. Would love to hear from someone like Newhouse, what the issue re: OLine. How are the players evaluated. We have two 1st rounders, neither playing like it, one playing like a FA - why?
Would love to see beat writers answering or trying to answer those questions as opposed to writing about the soap opera bullshit re: ex players, fans pissed about Eli's benching.
Like I said in my earlier post - biggest mistakes may well have been misdiagnosing problem as broken offense versus personnel, then trying to transition Eli into a WC QB
It's an offensive line managed by his hand-picked OL coach and overseen by his staff and run as part of his offensive scheme.
So it's on McAdoo too. Maybe not as much as Reese, but perhaps a 60-40. McAdoo has been here four years. Two as HC. He doesn't get to walk away from the OL mess without blame for it as well.
McAdoo didn't pick these players. It's nearly entirely the same group of players Pat Flaherty couldn't get anything out of. So while the OL coach is McAdoo's choice, a coach can't make flawed players any more talented than they are. After two different offensive line coaches, you just have to take a loss on this group and admit they're not good enough. System can't be that much to blame for it.
Just look at the play calling for the first three series Â
three runs between the guards (up the middle) on first down for 2 yards, minus 4, and no gain.
As the game went along, wouldn't it have made sense to give Wheeler a little help against Mack on obvious passing downs?
It's an offensive line managed by his hand-picked OL coach and overseen by his staff and run as part of his offensive scheme.
So it's on McAdoo too. Maybe not as much as Reese, but perhaps a 60-40. McAdoo has been here four years. Two as HC. He doesn't get to walk away from the OL mess without blame for it as well.
McAdoo didn't pick these players. It's nearly entirely the same group of players Pat Flaherty couldn't get anything out of. So while the OL coach is McAdoo's choice, a coach can't make flawed players any more talented than they are. After two different offensive line coaches, you just have to take a loss on this group and admit they're not good enough. System can't be that much to blame for it.
No. No. That's not entirely fair. They've had two full offseason programs and now two seasons to know what they have. Even before the injuries they kept force feeding Hart and Flowers when they were failing horribly last year and letting Jerry get away with stupidity with no changes.
McAdoo also has had several years prior to know what they can do or can't do and he's kept them. So he can't walk away from this. Not at all.
are getting way too much say in these things. McAdoo wants to keep coaching . The love affair with Eli , from the fans' perspective will end with his next 4 interception game. To an extent , the pro-Eli demonstration was more anti-Ben venom wrapped in an Eli sugar wafer.
McAdoo is going through a nightmarish season . He's a strong guy. He's not going to hide in Reno's casinos for the rest of his life. Don't use this seemingly sympathetic cop-out for firing him. The fans have blood lust. Mara is a coward. That's why it will happen tomorrow but spare us the noble motivation. Thing about McAdoo is that he has remained strong throughout this disintegration of a season. He wasn't ready for this job.
If you mean by "staying strong", he refused to make any changes other than the QB, then I guess McAdoo stayed strong. I see a guy too stubborn to acknowledge his offense wasn't working, other than to relinquish play calling duties. Refusing to change when all available evidence says you should doesn't seem strong to me.
It's an offensive line managed by his hand-picked OL coach and overseen by his staff and run as part of his offensive scheme.
So it's on McAdoo too. Maybe not as much as Reese, but perhaps a 60-40. McAdoo has been here four years. Two as HC. He doesn't get to walk away from the OL mess without blame for it as well.
McAdoo didn't pick these players. It's nearly entirely the same group of players Pat Flaherty couldn't get anything out of. So while the OL coach is McAdoo's choice, a coach can't make flawed players any more talented than they are. After two different offensive line coaches, you just have to take a loss on this group and admit they're not good enough. System can't be that much to blame for it.
No. No. That's not entirely fair. They've had two full offseason programs and now two seasons to know what they have. Even before the injuries they kept force feeding Hart and Flowers when they were failing horribly last year and letting Jerry get away with stupidity with no changes.
McAdoo also has had several years prior to know what they can do or can't do and he's kept them. So he can't walk away from this. Not at all.
They're not bringing in any better options for the offensive line. You can know they're bad players and still have very little choice but to play what you have because it's the "best" of bad options. Even if you want to complain that he took too long to bench guys for backups, the backups aren't any better.
McAdoo is going through a nightmarish season . He's a strong guy. He's not going to hide in Reno's casinos for the rest of his life. Don't use this seemingly sympathetic cop-out for firing him. The fans have blood lust. Mara is a coward. That's why it will happen tomorrow but spare us the noble motivation. Thing about McAdoo is that he has remained strong throughout this disintegration of a season. He wasn't ready for this job.
But this is not about winning the next game and pulling Eli was a PR disaster.
And before anyone cites Smith’s 2 fumbles, let it be noted that Eli has been very fumble prone.
Ok. But Mac and Reese should be gone even if the fans WANTED them to they stay. They have more than earned their pink slips on the merits.
Well maybe. But in this case fans are paying customers. Seat licenses and season tickets are hardly inexpensive. And a last hear as an outlier should you ignore your paying customer. It’s like a
Chef of keeps putting out shitty food. And the restaurant owner saying. Well we’ve Replaced some staff but even though the food sucks keep coming in?
And even with 11 wins the offense was putrid and hard to watch. They are lucky their buseness is almost immune to failure. Most business that suck for 5 or more years go under. They shouldn’t for McAdoo for most the fans sake. But for the fact that he’s not good at his job. This last weeks show was a huge blunder. If he’s going to be fired anyway what to keep some paying customers happy. This isn’t a charity. People pay for tickets. Pay for NFL on DirecTV etc.
Trying to keep paying customers happy is upper managements job. Saying they should ignore them is stupid. But then again the NFL seems for he last few years to be fine deaf ona lot. I almost think
Mara wanted to keep him before this Manning shit show
There’s over reaction. And some of this Eli stuff is certainly over reacting. I even said he shouldn’t be fired simply because of this Eli mess. I’m pretty sure McAdoo is facing most of the fire when he wasn’t alone.
But at this point as I said. if he’s going to be fired in a few weeks anyway he may as well at least calm your customers. And saying fans are short sighted or reactionary doesn’t make them always wrong Or right. But when it may cost someone about $1000 to Attend a game you it’s bad to want to see a good played game. The team has been crappy a while. I
Suggest the years of bad football is why there is so
Much outrage.
Quote:
but fans are given to extreme reactions. Fans want to fire everyone. Fans don't think deeper than surface level. Fans tend not to take context and circumstance into account. Fans want short-term gratification. Fans live in the moment and have very short memories. Fans don't have consequences for thinking this way.
There’s over reaction. And some of this Eli stuff is certainly over reacting. I even said he shouldn’t be fired simply because of this Eli mess. I’m pretty sure McAdoo is facing most of the fire when he wasn’t alone.
But at this point as I said. if he’s going to be fired in a few weeks anyway he may as well at least calm your customers. And saying fans are short sighted or reactionary doesn’t make them always wrong Or right. But when it may cost someone about $1000 to Attend a game you it’s bad to want to see a good played game. The team has been crappy a while. I
Suggest the years of bad football is why there is so
Much outrage.
I don't think there's anything unreasonable about what you said.
I'd like to know more about what exactly happened with this Eli thing. If it's a case of BM or Reese selling a plan to Mara and then doing something unexpected, then it would've been 100% accepted if he was fired on the spot. Mara seemed to imply that what he was told and how it was done were two different things.
I'm okay with starting Geno. No run game, inability to pass protect - Geno more mobile might help. Additionally, playoff hunt, long over - really never began, so, let's see what we have behind Eli because he is not going to play forever. Real games are real test of ability, not preseason. The move makes sense on several levels.
Former players want to protest on sidelines during game - I wouldn't let them if I was management. Grateful for your contributions to Giant's nation; however, management cannot and should not allow that.
Not sure I'd fire McAdoo. I should preface that by saying, I'm not qualified to make the decision to hire or fire an NFL coach. There are less than a handful of people on BBI, if that, who can render an informed, intelligent opinion on whether Mac should be fired. It is important to note, that Mac was an 11-5 playoff coach last year and they lost some close games this year with some major injuries. They competed in yesterday's game yesterday with a backup QB and a team ravaged by injuries. For all those screaming and crying for Eli to be avenged - wipe the tears from your eyes and and look at the situation objectively. Still may arrive at the same decision, but the wailing and gnashing of teeth and hatred of Mac re: this - WTF?
To my mind, in hindsight, the biggest mistake may have been ignoring Gilbride's warnings that the OLine needed refreshing - athletes age quickly, especially in the trenches - in a violent, brutal game. That decision to ignore him, begat the conclusion that the "offense was broken". That conclusion begat the decision to bring in a new OC. Most important, the new OC was a West Coast disciple. This decision was based on the assumption that a QB in his mid 30s, who has won two Lombardis with non west coast offenses, could and should be asked to transition to a west coast offense.
Eli being the great soldier that he is did his best to make the transition. They had some success and made the playoffs last year. The claims that Mac is an idiot, can't coach is based on selective use of the facts.
Where do we go from here? IMO, Eli has enough gas in the tank to make another run. The million dollar question is which offensive system is going to put him in the best position to succeed? The 2 million dollar question is which personnel are the best supporting cast to fit that system? The 3 million dollar question is who is the GM most likely to make those personnel decisions.
If it was my call, and I am thoroughly unqualified to make that call, if the WC is not the best system for ELi - I go on another direction for HC, bring in someone with HC experience - window too small to gamble that someone will grow into the position. That would make me look at guys like Smith or even McDaniels. But, first I would get another GM. If you are going to give another GM a try, that is the move you make today, not firing Mac.
Finally and most important - I would demand that the Maras conduct an investigation, call in CSI and identify every bad decision made and more importantly, which of those decisions had a Mara's fingerprints on it. And, then aks themselves - should we take a more hands off approach re: the franchise.
He deserves to be fired today solely because of how terrible a HC he is.
The Eli mess is just a cherry-topper on a poop sundae.
I never wanted him hired to begin with. And he was a passenger on last year's team.
The offense was terrible. Defense carried them all season.
He presided over one of the worst year over year offensive downfalls in league history. He made no substantive improvement in any area a head coach oversees. The injuries are now even worse than under Coughlin. The clock management on offense is even worse.
Do you think he actually had any hand in improving the defense?
He comports himself as some type of Belichick without the credentials.
But this is not about winning the next game and pulling Eli was a PR disaster.
And before anyone cites Smith’s 2 fumbles, let it be noted that Eli has been very fumble prone.
It's an offensive line managed by his hand-picked OL coach and overseen by his staff and run as part of his offensive scheme.
So it's on McAdoo too. Maybe not as much as Reese, but perhaps a 60-40. McAdoo has been here four years. Two as HC. He doesn't get to walk away from the OL mess without blame for it as well.
Would love to see beat writers answering or trying to answer those questions as opposed to writing about the soap opera bullshit re: ex players, fans pissed about Eli's benching.
Like I said in my earlier post - biggest mistakes may well have been misdiagnosing problem as broken offense versus personnel, then trying to transition Eli into a WC QB
Quote:
be successful with that offensive line
It's an offensive line managed by his hand-picked OL coach and overseen by his staff and run as part of his offensive scheme.
So it's on McAdoo too. Maybe not as much as Reese, but perhaps a 60-40. McAdoo has been here four years. Two as HC. He doesn't get to walk away from the OL mess without blame for it as well.
McAdoo didn't pick these players. It's nearly entirely the same group of players Pat Flaherty couldn't get anything out of. So while the OL coach is McAdoo's choice, a coach can't make flawed players any more talented than they are. After two different offensive line coaches, you just have to take a loss on this group and admit they're not good enough. System can't be that much to blame for it.
As the game went along, wouldn't it have made sense to give Wheeler a little help against Mack on obvious passing downs?
Quote:
In comment 13721812 bc4life said:
Quote:
be successful with that offensive line
It's an offensive line managed by his hand-picked OL coach and overseen by his staff and run as part of his offensive scheme.
So it's on McAdoo too. Maybe not as much as Reese, but perhaps a 60-40. McAdoo has been here four years. Two as HC. He doesn't get to walk away from the OL mess without blame for it as well.
McAdoo didn't pick these players. It's nearly entirely the same group of players Pat Flaherty couldn't get anything out of. So while the OL coach is McAdoo's choice, a coach can't make flawed players any more talented than they are. After two different offensive line coaches, you just have to take a loss on this group and admit they're not good enough. System can't be that much to blame for it.
No. No. That's not entirely fair. They've had two full offseason programs and now two seasons to know what they have. Even before the injuries they kept force feeding Hart and Flowers when they were failing horribly last year and letting Jerry get away with stupidity with no changes.
McAdoo also has had several years prior to know what they can do or can't do and he's kept them. So he can't walk away from this. Not at all.
McAdoo is going through a nightmarish season . He's a strong guy. He's not going to hide in Reno's casinos for the rest of his life. Don't use this seemingly sympathetic cop-out for firing him. The fans have blood lust. Mara is a coward. That's why it will happen tomorrow but spare us the noble motivation. Thing about McAdoo is that he has remained strong throughout this disintegration of a season. He wasn't ready for this job.
If you mean by "staying strong", he refused to make any changes other than the QB, then I guess McAdoo stayed strong. I see a guy too stubborn to acknowledge his offense wasn't working, other than to relinquish play calling duties. Refusing to change when all available evidence says you should doesn't seem strong to me.
Quote:
In comment 13721819 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 13721812 bc4life said:
Quote:
be successful with that offensive line
It's an offensive line managed by his hand-picked OL coach and overseen by his staff and run as part of his offensive scheme.
So it's on McAdoo too. Maybe not as much as Reese, but perhaps a 60-40. McAdoo has been here four years. Two as HC. He doesn't get to walk away from the OL mess without blame for it as well.
McAdoo didn't pick these players. It's nearly entirely the same group of players Pat Flaherty couldn't get anything out of. So while the OL coach is McAdoo's choice, a coach can't make flawed players any more talented than they are. After two different offensive line coaches, you just have to take a loss on this group and admit they're not good enough. System can't be that much to blame for it.
No. No. That's not entirely fair. They've had two full offseason programs and now two seasons to know what they have. Even before the injuries they kept force feeding Hart and Flowers when they were failing horribly last year and letting Jerry get away with stupidity with no changes.
McAdoo also has had several years prior to know what they can do or can't do and he's kept them. So he can't walk away from this. Not at all.
They're not bringing in any better options for the offensive line. You can know they're bad players and still have very little choice but to play what you have because it's the "best" of bad options. Even if you want to complain that he took too long to bench guys for backups, the backups aren't any better.