Everyone's passions are on fire this past week but I am curious how would your rate Geno Smiths game this week vs Eli's game against Redskins last week.
Unlike many of you - I thought Giants offensive performance against Redskins was so awful and that a change at QB was justified.
Comparisons are hard
I think Shepard being back really helped Geno and passing game
but I thought the OL played much much worse in general against Oakland than last week against Redskins
Everyone says Oakland has a bad defense but I think they are as good as Redskins -- Oakland pass defense is actually in top 10 and they are still in legitimate hunt of playoff spot .
I personally think in general Geno played a much better game than Eli did last week
Geno's huge miscues were two fumbles - The second fumble being the killer and totally on Geno for holding the ball way too long in that part of the field. But then again this season has been filled with horrible fumbles by QB.
Geno was brought in to be mobile and extend plays - this is exactly what he did .
I thought he was rusty at first but he moved the Giants efficiently on a couple of decent drives and after a long drought the offense finally scored two TDs -- one being on a long impressive 75 yard drive.
Many on this board think that Geno was not any better than Elil so the Giants should have just kept Eli playing but to me that just proves how poorly Eli has been this year .
Geno is a backup who hasn't played a down this year - . Eli is suppose to be an Elite QB and an Elite QB is suppose to elevate the offense . Even if the offense lacks serious talent.
The fact that Geno played slightly better than Eli is really an indictment on Eli's recent play .
That said it would be great to hear rational comparisons
The offense sucks, and anybody would look pedestrian in it.
And that’s what we have here.
Where it’s going to get interesting is Mac Not treating Eli and geno the same way post game
2) Consider the situation and the team you are playing. The Raiders are pretty weak defensively and even fired the Def. Coordinator recently. Add to that they were missing their top two WR's and their Oline hasn't played as well as they had hoped this year. The Raiders have been a very disappointing team this season.
3) No film on Geno with the Gmen. The Raiders had to use preseason and old Jets film to scout Smith.
4) Take away some horrible drops by Engram against the Skins and the game may have been different. This week Engram actually caught the ball.
5) Hard to think that the Raiders didn't think this would game would be a cake walk and after the first TD may have been a tad over confident. The Giants stayed in the game but how much of that was the Raiders poor play.
6) Would Eli, one of the more efficient Red Zone players, have turned the ball over twice inside the 20 (one inside the 10)? I mean he does turn it over a lot but inside the Red Zone Eli is willing to take the FG's..
I wouldn't look at anything yesterday as a sign that Smith actually played better than Eli..
mobility was helpful yesterday. that is undeniable.
has nothing to do with the name on the jersey... to act like being mobile didn't help Geno means you have no clue what you are watching.
Pretty disingenuous to say it didn't make a difference because it certainly did on the two TD drives.
Your 1st post was correct. The offense sucks, even Tom Brady couldn't do anything with it. And the fact that even with a mobile QB they couldn't do any better proves that the offense is bad.
In truth, I thought Geno threw a better ball, but maybe my expectations were low so anything positive looked good.
In the end, turnovers caused by bad pass protection were again the cause of the loss.
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It made no difference! The offense is bad.
mobility was helpful yesterday. that is undeniable.
has nothing to do with the name on the jersey... to act like being mobile didn't help Geno means you have no clue what you are watching.
It helped him to 13 yards rushing, and he extended maybe one or two plays that he ended up throwing the ball away.
It was negligible. Especially to the outcome.
The offense sucks, and anybody would look pedestrian in it.
This x 1000. The offense looked exactly the same under Geno. What’s the common denominator? Coach and scheme. People need to stop focusing on the QB and focus on the system. You got the same results yesterday as all the other weeks.
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It made no difference! The offense is bad.
Pretty disingenuous to say it didn't make a difference because it certainly did on the two TD drives.
Your 1st post was correct. The offense sucks, even Tom Brady couldn't do anything with it. And the fact that even with a mobile QB they couldn't do any better proves that the offense is bad.
In truth, I thought Geno threw a better ball, but maybe my expectations were low so anything positive looked good.
In the end, turnovers caused by bad pass protection were again the cause of the loss.
You act like Manning has been a statue back there. He has rolled out and stepped up in the pocket, too.
Is Geno faster? Yes, and he did rush for close to a first down once, but Manning has also done that when the situation dictated it.
Go back and watch Manning this year, he has made plays with his legs too. That's not his game, but he's done it.
Perception vs. Reality.
the mobility was definitely a factor and a helpful one at that. will be interesting to see Week 2 (if there is one) and whether Geno improves or not.
but nothing that happened yesterday was eye-popping that made anyone change their opinion of the overall QB situation.
even yesterday they are calling play action when there is zero chance of the defense biting on it... same as the first few weeks of the year. 7 step drop playaction.
its all pathetic. I am starting to prefer Mayfield if the team goes QB. i think he can suit multiple systems.
And he Rex Ryan comments at the preser just showed what a dumbbell he is. Ryan is certainly an asshole, but a leader doesn't do that.
Geno had 2 in one game.
Eli lost 5 fumbles in 11 games. That's a lost fumble every other game, which is about average.
even yesterday they are calling play action when there is zero chance of the defense biting on it... same as the first few weeks of the year. 7 step drop playaction.
its all pathetic. I am starting to prefer Mayfield if the team goes QB. i think he can suit multiple systems.
It's clear as day when you go from a high-octane offense the last two years under Coughlin to two years under McAdoo.
It's the offensive philosophy, scheme, gameplanning.
McAdoo was the OC, but it was Coughlin's offense and gameplan still.
Now, the offense is a total joke and was last year too.
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You act like Manning has been a statue back there. He has rolled out and stepped up in the pocket, too.
Is Geno faster? Yes, and he did rush for close to a first down once, but Manning has also done that when the situation dictated it.
Go back and watch Manning this year, he has made plays with his legs too. That's not his game, but he's done it.
Perception vs. Reality.
Eli is a statue back there. Yes Eli has a TD and a couple good scrambles. But don't tell me Eli moves like Smith because Eli made a few 1st down runs in 11 games. Smith did have a 1st down run - 13 yards or something and he definitely moves better in and out of the pocket, but that may have to do with Eli being blasted for 5 straight years. I'm pretty certain Eli gets sacked at least 4 more times had he played. I'm pretty certain it may have been a shutout they way Oakland was in the backfield almost every play.
Comes down to the same result with different QBs. Oline and offense are terrible.
No help for Wheeler as Mack blew past him on 50% of the plays. Why have 3 TEs active if they aren't being used?
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In comment 13721686 section125 said:
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You act like Manning has been a statue back there. He has rolled out and stepped up in the pocket, too.
Is Geno faster? Yes, and he did rush for close to a first down once, but Manning has also done that when the situation dictated it.
Go back and watch Manning this year, he has made plays with his legs too. That's not his game, but he's done it.
Perception vs. Reality.
Eli is a statue back there. Yes Eli has a TD and a couple good scrambles. But don't tell me Eli moves like Smith because Eli made a few 1st down runs in 11 games. Smith did have a 1st down run - 13 yards or something and he definitely moves better in and out of the pocket, but that may have to do with Eli being blasted for 5 straight years. I'm pretty certain Eli gets sacked at least 4 more times had he played. I'm pretty certain it may have been a shutout they way Oakland was in the backfield almost every play.
Comes down to the same result with different QBs. Oline and offense are terrible.
No help for Wheeler as Mack blew past him on 50% of the plays. Why have 3 TEs active if they aren't being used?
The point is it made no difference. Okay, Geno moved better than Eli. He's a runner, and he's younger. That doesn't mean Eli is washed up, he's not. It means the system is bad for anybody that is in it. Can't block, can't run, WR's can't get open, dropped passes.
Geno's mobility was negligible. It really made no difference.
The system is not built to any QB's strengths. It's stale and unimaginative and can't get out of it's own way.
1.) First game playing as starter for a bad Giants team
2.) Replacing Eli. Regardless on the belief Eli should
start or sit, Geno came in to replace a Giants legend.
Geno is probably not the answer, but I wouldn't have started Webb this week just because of the pressure of replacing a legend in the first game, let the veteran Geno do it.
Gilbride
“What I know is this guy’s going to be prepared. He’ll always be as selfless, as hard working, as professional as you could ask anybody to be. When I do watch him on film I see a guy who’s arm strength is still the same.
“As I’ve said on numerous occasions will never and never has solved problems with his feet. He’s not gonna do that. He can solve it with his arm, he can solve it with his brains, he can solve it with his heart. But, if you’re asking this guy to solve problems because of difficulty with protection and what have you with his feet you’ve got the wrong guy. That’s not who he is.”
Cossell:
As for the Raiders, they are 22nd in overall defense, 23rd in passing yards against, and dead last in the league when it comes to forced turnovers.
You understand what's being said here about as well as you understand what you're watching on Sunday.
Default : 8:48 am : link : reply
if his cheerleaders are using the performance of the backup to boost his performance.
People are showing that the offense is broken, moreso than the QB position. Put a different QB back there - same results or worse. It isn't needed to "boost" Eli's performance, but it can be used to show that Eli isn't the main problem - the offensive design and the shit OL most likely are.
The turnovers were bad. They end drives and steal points. And whether they go through the air, or on the ground they are killers.
Both of the QBs on the roster are not good enough in other areas to make up for them.
It's crystal clear neither guy is getting a team to a championship at this stage in their career.
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I think it's pretty clear that Eli has been bad this year
Default : 8:48 am : link : reply
if his cheerleaders are using the performance of the backup to boost his performance.
People are showing that the offense is broken, moreso than the QB position. Put a different QB back there - same results or worse. It isn't needed to "boost" Eli's performance, but it can be used to show that Eli isn't the main problem - the offensive design and the shit OL most likely are.
Exactly. It isn't the QB it is the system. I think it backfired on McAdoo, yesterday. Geno looked pretty good. I thought he threw a very good ball. He held it too long in the red zone, But the results were exactly the same.
The turnovers were bad. They end drives and steal points. And whether they go through the air, or on the ground they are killers.
Both of the QBs on the roster are not good enough in other areas to make up for them.
It's crystal clear neither guy is getting a team to a championship at this stage in their career.
I don't think it's crystal clear, look at it from the opposite side.
Put a competent O-line and run game in front of the two. Do you still think they'd look the same?
It is crystal clear that neither guy is going to get THIS team to a championship, the way it is constructed, especially with the OL. Joe Flacco could very well have a playoff run this year, and he's allowed to sit behind a line and throw. We haven't said that about Eli in several years.
Meanwhile, a guy like Matt Ryan looks pedestrian with a line that isn't playing well. And guys like Keenum and Goff look really good with a competent OL.
2. New HC
They need to get Webb in there. It is beyond incomprehensible that he is still not ready to play and not even seeing any extra reps. They are wasting their time with Geno and disgraceful that they humiliated Eli to get him in there.
The question is not can Geno do more than Eli, the question is, is he the future QB for NYG, but we already know --he isn't. Webb at least gives fans something to tune in for and accomplishes something meaningful.
Comparing Geno and Eli, or ANY other QB behind this line and offensive roster is pointless.
Put a real team around them, and do you still think Geno and Eli would be an even performance? I don't even think it would be close, and I think the history of the two players shows that.
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But then again this season has been filled with horrible fumbles by QB
Geno had 2 in one game.
Eli lost 5 fumbles in 11 games. That's a lost fumble every other game, which is about average.
Yes FMIC but the OP is just being "honest"...
He was in a tough spot and the team was in a tough spot.
Apples to Apples. I think Engram caught passes that he dropped last week and Sheppard played. Those were the major differences. He was given the ball in the red zone and didn't get points but scored 2 touchdowns. A net of 7 until the garbage time.
This offense stinks. The team stinks. The organization is a festering mess.
He was in a tough spot and the team was in a tough spot.
Apples to Apples. I think Engram caught passes that he dropped last week and Sheppard played. Those were the major differences. He was given the ball in the red zone and didn't get points but scored 2 touchdowns. A net of 7 until the garbage time.
This offense stinks. The team stinks. The organization is a festering mess.
If Smith is the QB next year then the Giants will be competing for the first draft pick again.
This Oakland defense is the same defense that let Siemian come in and throw 2 tds and no picks in about a half the previous week. Geno is not the problem, and neither is Eli. You cant make an honest judgement on either because there is just NOTHING to work with.
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The more telling thing for me is Smith looked just as average with the same set of characters. Think about that. A journeyman coming off the bench, first year in the system.
The turnovers were bad. They end drives and steal points. And whether they go through the air, or on the ground they are killers.
Both of the QBs on the roster are not good enough in other areas to make up for them.
It's crystal clear neither guy is getting a team to a championship at this stage in their career.
I don't think it's crystal clear, look at it from the opposite side.
Put a competent O-line and run game in front of the two. Do you still think they'd look the same?
Probably not. I think Eli would be fine in that structure. But the reality of the current state of Eli and the Giants is that he needs that structure in place, and it's not here, and you and I don't even know who's going to be the one tasked with getting it in place.
They're not going to win any time soon, and there's no justification for being on the hook for all that salary at his age when your outlook is maybe being two years away from being relevant. You're essentially paying 11% of all your resources to build a 53-man roster to one man just to be able to keep him around as an attraction for the fans with no ability to sell your team as a contender.
And I'd say the same for the defense too. Cut salary for the older guys who make the highest money and let's move forward.
I cringe thinking of McAdoo and Cignetti walking the halls of Giants Stadium bad mouthing Eli.
When you're handed a 2-time Super Bowl MVP QB, who figure out what he does well and tailor the offense to it. Gilbride and Coughlin were smart enough to do that. KG basically created the perfect offense to utilize Manning's strengths. I love the guy.
Smith made a couple of nice throws, especially she’s he was under pressure most of game. He had two bad turnovers because if it.
He also has to rush throws and dump off a lot of short
passes.
Replace his name with Eli and I could have basically could have been talking about any game this season.
Our offense is broken. We have no o-line.
I thought Cosell's comments were not very positive, while Gilbride's were very positive.
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In comment 13721774 christian said:
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The more telling thing for me is Smith looked just as average with the same set of characters. Think about that. A journeyman coming off the bench, first year in the system.
The turnovers were bad. They end drives and steal points. And whether they go through the air, or on the ground they are killers.
Both of the QBs on the roster are not good enough in other areas to make up for them.
It's crystal clear neither guy is getting a team to a championship at this stage in their career.
I don't think it's crystal clear, look at it from the opposite side.
Put a competent O-line and run game in front of the two. Do you still think they'd look the same?
Probably not. I think Eli would be fine in that structure. But the reality of the current state of Eli and the Giants is that he needs that structure in place, and it's not here, and you and I don't even know who's going to be the one tasked with getting it in place.
They're not going to win any time soon, and there's no justification for being on the hook for all that salary at his age when your outlook is maybe being two years away from being relevant. You're essentially paying 11% of all your resources to build a 53-man roster to one man just to be able to keep him around as an attraction for the fans with no ability to sell your team as a contender.
And I'd say the same for the defense too. Cut salary for the older guys who make the highest money and let's move forward.
I understand that neither are the future at this point, I do think Eli gives you a better chance to win while you groom your next QB.
That said, cutting him to "save money" isn't as cut and dried as you think.
I think we all agree we're going to need a veteran QB on the roster next year. Look around at what some of these vet QB's are getting paid.
Mike Glennon is getting 14 million from the Bears this year. Jay Cutler is making 10 million.
You cut Eli, you leave 12.5 million in dead space, then you have to sign a veteran QB for what? 10 million on average for the year?
By doing that, you're actually tying up MORE money in the position than just keeping Eli. And you have a Jay Cutler or Mike Glennon instead.
If you look at the offensive systems he ran in his career, they spanned the run-and-shoot, hybrid WCO's and a vertical offense. He tailored his system to the strengths of the QB - not force a system on the QB
Smith fumbles because it was jailbreak city and he was under immediate pressure. This is the story of the Giants offense for years now.
The second fumble both tackles, LT with help failed and Mack made a great play stripping it. Eli fumbles this year too because he is drilled clean or stripped due to immediate pressure.
Geno ran for close to a first and Escaped pocket for a throw away or two. For most of the game the Giants offense was garbage. There is no run game. Two of the brighter spots on this team, Engram and Shep, stepped up and made some big plays which lead to points.
Geno did bot play horribly or great. He did a solid job especially considering the pressure on him.
One thing, Eli is a pocket passer field general. He can lead any offense and make the throws, but he needs an offense to lead. Give Eli NFL competence at o line so he has decent protection and a run game that teams must at least take note of and he will give you a productive offense. People talk like this is a simple thing, most QB'S can not even do this consistently if given an offense. A QB who can do it, stay healthy and beat the best is as rare as anything in sports, this is what the Giants are jettisoning with Eli.
Eli will ID protections and set up the run game and hit plays on play action. But, he needs an offense to lead. I believe he can still do this and he has proven he can do it against any team, anywhere, anytime and in any weather conditions. The Giants have driven this team into the ground and kicked Eli aside as a scapegoat. Now, the Giants have given up the advantage of having a franchise QB. The Giants will now be playing find the HC and find the QB like most of the NFL. How is the new HC working out? People could not wait to fire Coughlin, think ownership wants that decision back?.
It is the same with Eli. When a franchise decides it is time to move on from a championship coach or franchise/champion QB they better make damn well sure the guys are done and better replacements are out there. I expect the end of the Eli era to result in years of mediocrity at best because that is what most teams in the NFL are, unless they have a franchise QB or winning coach.
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Eli defenders cite Geno's fumbles. In 212 games, Eli has fumbled 112 times. On the first yesterday, Smith's arm was hit as he began the throw. On the 2nd, Mack ran right past Wheeler. If it were Eli making those fumbles, you all would be saying it's the fault of a leaky line.
Smith fumbles because it was jailbreak city and he was under immediate pressure. This is the story of the Giants offense for years now.
The second fumble both tackles, LT with help failed and Mack made a great play stripping it. Eli fumbles this year too because he is drilled clean or stripped due to immediate pressure.
Geno ran for close to a first and Escaped pocket for a throw away or two. For most of the game the Giants offense was garbage. There is no run game. Two of the brighter spots on this team, Engram and Shep, stepped up and made some big plays which lead to points.
Geno did bot play horribly or great. He did a solid job especially considering the pressure on him.
One thing, Eli is a pocket passer field general. He can lead any offense and make the throws, but he needs an offense to lead. Give Eli NFL competence at o line so he has decent protection and a run game that teams must at least take note of and he will give you a productive offense. People talk like this is a simple thing, most QB'S can not even do this consistently if given an offense. A QB who can do it, stay healthy and beat the best is as rare as anything in sports, this is what the Giants are jettisoning with Eli.
Eli will ID protections and set up the run game and hit plays on play action. But, he needs an offense to lead. I believe he can still do this and he has proven he can do it against any team, anywhere, anytime and in any weather conditions. The Giants have driven this team into the ground and kicked Eli aside as a scapegoat. Now, the Giants have given up the advantage of having a franchise QB. The Giants will now be playing find the HC and find the QB like most of the NFL. How is the new HC working out? People could not wait to fire Coughlin, think ownership wants that decision back?.
It is the same with Eli. When a franchise decides it is time to move on from a championship coach or franchise/champion QB they better make damn well sure the guys are done and better replacements are out there. I expect the end of the Eli era to result in years of mediocrity at best because that is what most teams in the NFL are, unless they have a franchise QB or winning coach.
Excellent post.
A couple of things, to compare it to the performance v. the Skins should come with caveats. Shepard didn't play, and the OL was brutally bad that game. They played much better yesterday.
The problem I have with the whole Eli situation isn't about Geno. Geno has no future with the Giants. Are we really resigning him to play QB next year? God help us. To that end, Webb should be the guy we're looking at, and playing Geno only delays getting Webb ready. Geno hadn't played in 2 years, and therefore needed all of the practice reps. If you leave Eli as the starter, you could have given Webb half the reps last week, and then this week, and maybe get him in to Sunday's game at some point. Then Webb could conceivably be ready to start week 16.
McAdoo did this solely so that he could point at the QB and say "see, if I could have played my guy sooner, we could have been competitive!" You don't let a dead man walking choose the next guy to execute.
Geno played a little bit better than expected, but his performance wasn't different than what Eli has done the past couple months.
I understand that neither are the future at this point, I do think Eli gives you a better chance to win while you groom your next QB.
That said, cutting him to "save money" isn't as cut and dried as you think.
I think we all agree we're going to need a veteran QB on the roster next year. Look around at what some of these vet QB's are getting paid.
Mike Glennon is getting 14 million from the Bears this year. Jay Cutler is making 10 million.
You cut Eli, you leave 12.5 million in dead space, then you have to sign a veteran QB for what? 10 million on average for the year?
By doing that, you're actually tying up MORE money in the position than just keeping Eli. And you have a Jay Cutler or Mike Glennon instead.
If the team is truly moving to the future, milking a few wins out of a vet in a new system isn't particularly helpful.
The Giants would likely either start the top 5 pick like the Rams and Eagles did 2 years ago and retain Smith at a price tag much cheaper than $10M.
There'a also a very real chance the Giants can redo Mannings deal as part of a trade and realize more cap savings. If the right team is aligned adding an extra year and converting bonus to salary might be a win/win for Manning and the Giants. Manning would have to feel confident he would net $32M guaranteed on a new deal to not work with the Giants.
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I understand that neither are the future at this point, I do think Eli gives you a better chance to win while you groom your next QB.
That said, cutting him to "save money" isn't as cut and dried as you think.
I think we all agree we're going to need a veteran QB on the roster next year. Look around at what some of these vet QB's are getting paid.
Mike Glennon is getting 14 million from the Bears this year. Jay Cutler is making 10 million.
You cut Eli, you leave 12.5 million in dead space, then you have to sign a veteran QB for what? 10 million on average for the year?
By doing that, you're actually tying up MORE money in the position than just keeping Eli. And you have a Jay Cutler or Mike Glennon instead.
If the team is truly moving to the future, milking a few wins out of a vet in a new system isn't particularly helpful.
The Giants would likely either start the top 5 pick like the Rams and Eagles did 2 years ago and retain Smith at a price tag much cheaper than $10M.
There'a also a very real chance the Giants can redo Mannings deal as part of a trade and realize more cap savings. If the right team is aligned adding an extra year and converting bonus to salary might be a win/win for Manning and the Giants. Manning would have to feel confident he would net $32M guaranteed on a new deal to not work with the Giants.
Unfortunately, the Giants have lost any leverage with Manning to make a move like that thanks to McAdoo.
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KG basically created the perfect offense to utilize Manning's strengths
If you look at the offensive systems he ran in his career, they spanned the run-and-shoot, hybrid WCO's and a vertical offense. He tailored his system to the strengths of the QB - not force a system on the QB
Yes, and this highlights the glaring problem with McAdoo -- his inability or unwillingness to adjust.
Unfortunately, the Giants have lost any leverage with Manning to make a move like that thanks to McAdoo.
I don't believe that to be true at all. When the season ends, and Macadoo and Reese are both gone, emotions will turn to economics.
The Giants have the leverage of his contract, which is a good deal and better than what Manning will fetch on the open market.
Manning has the leverage of the NTC and a price tag the Giants don't want to, but practically can absorb.
Both sides benefit from being practical this off-season. The only way Manning is cut, is if the organization is incredibly generous to him.
At 2-9, I don't think you get to assume wins.
Those sideline out routes are easily more than 20 yards in the air.
To me layman eyes, this offense whether due to scheme, lack of protection or likely both simply does not take shots down the field. Shame, this was probably Eli's greatest strength his deep ball.
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Geno officially throw any balls past 20+ yards?
To me layman eyes, this offense whether due to scheme, lack of protection or likely both simply does not take shots down the field. Shame, this was probably Eli's greatest strength his deep ball.
Exactly, this offense neutered him.
He threw some for completions. A couple to Engram, one to Shepard. Had a few that also tailed a bit on him.
Yeah, also since the front office is unable or unwilling to build an oline, Eli under McAdoo the genius has been coached to "get the a
ball out, get the ball out, get the damn ball out!" in a futile attempt to scheme around a shit o line. This I think has reduced shots down field and may have played a role in Eli becoming les comfortable in the pocket. That and the amount of clean shots he takes when o lineman are beat like a drum off the ball.
Comparing Geno and Eli, or ANY other QB behind this line and offensive roster is pointless.
Put a real team around them, and do you still think Geno and Eli would be an even performance? I don't even think it would be close, and I think the history of the two players shows that.
Completely agree with this post. On this offense as it is presently constructed every QB will look the same - like crap. However, put the right pieces in place and get a scheme that actually works and Eli can get the offense rolling and bring you another championship... I have no faith that Geno could do the same.
*Any* QB in the league would perform up to the ceiling.
We have no earthly idea how Eli (or Geno) would perform if the ceiling was raised.
We have no true evidence as to whether Eli is in decline or can't do the job or not. We won't until the ceiling is raised.
Makes total sense.
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But then again this season has been filled with horrible fumbles by QB
Geno had 2 in one game.
Eli lost 5 fumbles in 11 games. That's a lost fumble every other game, which is about average.
Average for Eli, maybe. Not average overall. Looking at all teams other than the Giants, NFL QBs have lost, on average, two fumbles this season, or 0.18 per game. And that includes Tom Savage who has lost one per game. For clarity, Rivers and Roethlisberger, the two QBs to whom Eli is most often compared (for obvious reasons), have each lost one fumble this season.
Even if you want to consider the ratio of lost fumbles to total fumbles to be a function of luck (which it is, to some degree), Eli has also fumbled at a rate that is nearly double the league average: he has 0.64 fumbles per game, whereas all other teams' QBs have 0.35 fumbles per game.
Eli has always been fumble prone. There's really no denying that. Losing a fumble every other game is bad, not average. Putting the ball on the ground in two out of every three games is bad too.
Some QB's ahead of him:
- Wentz
- Wilson
- Stafford
- Winston
- Cousins (who leads the league)
FatMan in Charlotte : 10:58 am : link : reply
is 7th in fumbles and 10th in lost fumbles.
Some QB's ahead of him:
- Wentz
- Wilson
- Stafford
- Winston
- Cousins (who leads the league)
on the whole we had similar performance - the difference being relative to expectations and salary.
with Eli and without beckham, this offense put up the following points: 3, 16, 7, 17, 21, 12 and 10 points. that's a 13 point average in 7 games. made worse by the fact that the 12 points were also in an overtime game, 7 of the points against the rams came with then game was 48-10 and 8 of the points in the san fran game were with a minute left in garbage time with an 18 point lead for the 49ers.
Geno is by no means the answer long term at QB, but he actually outperformed 2017 Eli yesterday for a fraction of the cost. He was able to sustain some drives with his mobility. His fumbles were huge mistakes and part of a long term trend of his where he holds on to the ball too long/does not make consistently good and crisp decisions.
Currently no receivers of value outside of Sheppard and Engram, no consistent Running back, and an offensive line that only opens holes for the defense to come through.
Of the above. The injuries of the receivers I can't blame on Reese. My opinion there is no GM prepares for all the missed playing time due to injury there. We were all excited by the Marshall pickup, we had OBJ and Sheppard and Engram was a great drafted player (not arguing who we should have drafted)
The RBs I can blame on him, Vareen, for whatever reason, was a miss.
The O-line...while he tried to draft the pieces, he has missed far more often than hit.
That being said. With all those holes, with the JV squad we put out there week to week, who would have made this a winning team? McAdoo seemed to have the arrow moving up as an OC. Since then the offense has been a failure, I don't argue.
But with the current roster, could any coach who was available after TC left really been able to succeed? Certainly when more than half the staff was selected for you (Spags, Sully, and Quinn)? I think the answer is a resounding No.
on the whole we had similar performance - the difference being relative to expectations and salary.
with Eli and without beckham, this offense put up the following points: 3, 16, 7, 17, 21, 12 and 10 points. that's a 13 point average in 7 games. made worse by the fact that the 12 points were also in an overtime game, 7 of the points against the rams came with then game was 48-10 and 8 of the points in the san fran game were with a minute left in garbage time with an 18 point lead for the 49ers.
Geno is by no means the answer long term at QB, but he actually outperformed 2017 Eli yesterday for a fraction of the cost. He was able to sustain some drives with his mobility. His fumbles were huge mistakes and part of a long term trend of his where he holds on to the ball too long/does not make consistently good and crisp decisions.
Haha outperformed to the tune of 212 yards, 1 td and 2 fumbles lost. Against one of the worst defenses in the league. Had Eli done the same thing, 99% of this board would have said Eli cost the Giants the game.
*Any* QB in the league would perform up to the ceiling.
We have no earthly idea how Eli (or Geno) would perform if the ceiling was raised.
We have no true evidence as to whether Eli is in decline or can't do the job or not. We won't until the ceiling is raised.
ELI: Purely for the fact that his production was replicated by a back-up. The argument that Brady/Rodgers/etc would look bad behind this offense is a waste in the Eli vs McAdoo debate because its an unwinnable argument.
McAdoo: For trying to shoehorn and offense into pieces that don't fit. The biggest validation for McAdoo would have been a mobile QB scoring 30+ points in his system. That didn't happen so it's time for him to go.
Reese: Failing to get the proper personnel pieces around the QB. O-line should have been the strategy to elevate Eli's play not better skill position players.
At 2-10, nobody is clean, but Eli definitely comes out the best.
Some QB's ahead of him:
- Wentz
- Wilson
- Stafford
- Winston
- Cousins (who leads the league)
That is not at all accurate.
Eli has seven fumbles, four lost.
- Wentz has four fumbles, one lost
- Wilson has five fumbles, two lost
- Stafford actually does lead Eli - he has nine fumbles, six lost
- Winston has seven fumbles, three lost
- Cousins has six fumbles, four lost
But let's see if Britt quotes the accurate stats.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
Even if you want to consider the ratio of lost fumbles to total fumbles to be a function of luck (which it is, to some degree), Eli has also fumbled at a rate that is nearly double the league average: he has 0.64 fumbles per game, whereas all other teams' QBs have 0.35 fumbles per game.
Quote:
Eli..
FatMan in Charlotte : 10:58 am : link : reply
is 7th in fumbles and 10th in lost fumbles.
Some QB's ahead of him:
- Wentz
- Wilson
- Stafford
- Winston
- Cousins (who leads the league)
See above.