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Something to keep in mind with the Browns-

Sean : 12/4/2017 9:24 am
1. They drafted DeShone Kizer in the 2nd round last year. Do they think he can be the QB of the future?

2. The Browns own the Texans first round pick which is likely a top 7 pick. This may prevent them from going QB with the number 1 pick assuming they may like Mayfield or Jackson.

Those are 2 important points if we are picking 2. I want Darnold & if he shows doubt for playing in CLE, it could pave the way for us *IF* he comes out.
We'd still have to likely pay the trade up cost to secure Darnold  
JonC : 12/4/2017 9:26 am : link
other teams will be trying to do the same with the Browns.
You forgot this .  
ZogZerg : 12/4/2017 9:26 am : link
The Browns are FUCKING MORONS.

They should grab a QB. If they don't, they trade the pick away to a team that will.
Sean...  
ryanmkeane : 12/4/2017 9:28 am : link
I think the fact that the Browns have Houston's #1 means that its even more likely they take a QB at #1. Take a QB at 1 and then have your pick of BPA with Houston's pick. Doing the opposite would be catastrophic for them.
Kizer  
Banks : 12/4/2017 9:29 am : link
is playing terrible, really terrible. He's a rookie on a bad team so he isn't expected to light it up, but there's no way he's shown enough for them to pass on a top qb
actually  
giantfan2000 : 12/4/2017 9:29 am : link
here is my nightmare scenario

Reese fired from Giants
Reese becomes Browns GM
Reese hires Josh McDaniels
Sam Darnold stays in school another year
Reese and drafts Josh Rosen
Secure the #2 overall  
The_Boss : 12/4/2017 9:33 am : link
Literally nothing else matters.
RE: Kizer  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 12/4/2017 9:35 am : link
In comment 13721890 Banks said:
Quote:
is playing terrible, really terrible. He's a rookie on a bad team so he isn't expected to light it up, but there's no way he's shown enough for them to pass on a top qb


Apparently, he looked pretty good yesterday.
RE: RE: Kizer  
YAJ2112 : 12/4/2017 9:36 am : link
In comment 13721907 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 13721890 Banks said:


Quote:


is playing terrible, really terrible. He's a rookie on a bad team so he isn't expected to light it up, but there's no way he's shown enough for them to pass on a top qb



Apparently, he looked pretty good yesterday.


No, he didn't.
_  
Banks : 12/4/2017 9:38 am : link
Kizer grade yesterday
Link - ( New Window )
RE: We'd still have to likely pay the trade up cost to secure Darnold  
AcidTest : 12/4/2017 9:38 am : link
In comment 13721872 JonC said:
Quote:
other teams will be trying to do the same with the Browns.


And I don't want to do so. We'd get into a bidding war. So much risk of QBs busting.
I am really happy Cleveland has first pick  
averagejoe : 12/4/2017 9:41 am : link
and they have to pick a QB. The Browns are bust insurance. Whichever QB they want is sure to be the bust in the bunch. The Browns will find he Ryan Leaf every time.
RE: _  
AcidTest : 12/4/2017 9:41 am : link
In comment 13721918 Banks said:
Quote:
Kizer grade yesterday Link - ( New Window )


Kizer should have stayed in school. As the report notes, he throws to receivers not spots, which means he isn' "throwing teammates open." But he's also on a terrible team, so it's hard to evaluate him. The irony is that the same is probably true for Webb when he gets to play this season.
We need picks  
NikkiMac : 12/4/2017 9:43 am : link
We don’t need to be giving up picks their will be 15/20 new players next year needed
Have you even watched Kizer this year?  
est1986 : 12/4/2017 9:45 am : link
He looks bad... really bad. And drafting Kessler in the 3rd round the year before did not stop them from drafting Kizer so I can't see how it stops them from going for Darnold or another QB... Hue Jackson absolutely sucks... he passed on Goff and Wentz and he is supposed to be a QB guru, what a moron.
Kiser won’t prevent them from taking  
UConn4523 : 12/4/2017 9:46 am : link
their coveted QB, whoever that may be. They are in position to net a ton of picks for anyone that wants Darnold/Rosen.
RE: Kiser won’t prevent them from taking  
Sammo85 : 12/4/2017 9:55 am : link
In comment 13721936 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
their coveted QB, whoever that may be. They are in position to net a ton of picks for anyone that wants Darnold/Rosen.


They already have a ton of picks and they don't seem to be able to use them properly to begin with nor develop players.

They more than any team in the NFL, needs Darnold or Rosen.

It's not rocket science. But Chief Strategy Officer DePodesta surely will try to make something up to hide the fact he doesn't know what the hell he is doing.
RE: RE: Kiser won’t prevent them from taking  
UConn4523 : 12/4/2017 9:57 am : link
In comment 13721969 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 13721936 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


their coveted QB, whoever that may be. They are in position to net a ton of picks for anyone that wants Darnold/Rosen.



They already have a ton of picks and they don't seem to be able to use them properly to begin with nor develop players.

They more than any team in the NFL, needs Darnold or Rosen.

It's not rocket science. But Chief Strategy Officer DePodesta surely will try to make something up to hide the fact he doesn't know what the hell he is doing.


It doesn't matter how they use them, but they will still command a ransom for the #1 overall pick. They aren't going to lessen their offer just because they have a bunch of other picks. Sooner or later their picks will pan out - you can never have too many.
If the Browns pass on a QB with the first pick,  
Section331 : 12/4/2017 9:58 am : link
their fans should burn down the city. You don't wait until the 7th pick to hope your guy is there. Take the best QB first, you'll still get a very good player at 7.
not to miller  
jestersdead : 12/4/2017 10:07 am : link
but the fact Hue Jackson took the Browns job without interviewing the Giants position is baffling. He's 1-27 in his two years. Are ppl in Cleveland talking about firing him?
Kizer looks to be a bit of a project  
MetsAreBack : 12/4/2017 10:10 am : link
shouldnt have been made to start this year. I think they work him as their backup next year though.

Watched a bunch of that SD game yesterday on red zone. With Gordon back, they've actually got talent at the skill positions. A good QB would thrive in that offense IMO - Gordon, Coleman, I like their TE Django or whatever his name is, Crowell and the Duke is a solid change of pace back. Pretty good o-line too.

Speaking of Gordon - really hope he can keep his shit together. I thought he looked really impressive going against one of the top corners in the league and not having played in 3 years or whatever. I know he only caught 4 of 11 targets, but still had 85 yards and most of those incompletes were on Kizer.
Browns got burned by Wentz and Watson  
bceagle05 : 12/4/2017 10:12 am : link
in the last two years alone. I'd expect them to err on the side of quarterback - hopefully they pick the wrong one.
I'm all for drafting our next QB, if the new GM and coach are  
mikeinbloomfield : 12/4/2017 10:24 am : link
convinced the guy they have a shot at is good enough. But I am really finding the "burn it all down" scenario attractive:

-- Fire everyone
-- Trade down in the first round, acquiring as many high picks as possible.
-- Take the BPA in the 2018 draft, regardless of position except for QB.
-- Trade any vet player that can get you more premium picks
-- Go into 2018 knowing you are not going to contend, but hopefully some of the young guys show promise
-- Target a little more in the 2019 draft, based on what you know from the previous season.
-- Start contending end of 2019, with a view towards being a really good team in 2020.

Fun? Not really until the end of 2019. Worth it? Of course! This is not to say the Giants can't turn this around quicker. I just think building almost entirely through the draft makes for more sustainable success.
Browns need to stay with a QB  
larryflower37 : 12/4/2017 10:37 am : link
for more than a year.
I think Kiser is that guy for now.
But that is not a good scenario for the Giants, Browns will trade out of the first pick.
The first pick will be a QB no matter what. (Browns or some other team).
Do the Giants trade up and secure the QB they want or sit back and take what is left?
RE: You forgot this .  
Victor in CT : 12/4/2017 10:53 am : link
In comment 13721874 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
The Browns are FUCKING MORONS.

They should grab a QB. If they don't, they trade the pick away to a team that will.


so are the Giants. All of our worst fears have been exposed. Sadly John Mara is more Fredo than Michael. They are a rudderless ship.
It's the Browns  
HoustonGiant : 12/4/2017 10:59 am : link
they'll draft Baker at #1, mark my words....
They won't hold off on taking a QB because of Kizer  
Jay on the Island : 12/4/2017 11:05 am : link
If they aren't taking a QB 1st overall then they will sell the pick to the highest bidder as there will be several teams willing to pay the price to move up for Darnold or Rosen. I am hoping they stand firm and take Rosen leaving Darnold available to the Giants.
RE: RE: RE: Kiser won’t prevent them from taking  
Sammo85 : 12/4/2017 11:20 am : link
In comment 13721975 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13721969 Sammo85 said:


Quote:


In comment 13721936 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


their coveted QB, whoever that may be. They are in position to net a ton of picks for anyone that wants Darnold/Rosen.



They already have a ton of picks and they don't seem to be able to use them properly to begin with nor develop players.

They more than any team in the NFL, needs Darnold or Rosen.

It's not rocket science. But Chief Strategy Officer DePodesta surely will try to make something up to hide the fact he doesn't know what the hell he is doing.



It doesn't matter how they use them, but they will still command a ransom for the #1 overall pick. They aren't going to lessen their offer just because they have a bunch of other picks. Sooner or later their picks will pan out - you can never have too many.


They shouldnt trade the pick at all. Unless they get a stupid offer from some team like three 1sts, two 2s, a couple 3s.
You make them an offer they can't refuse  
HomerJones45 : 12/4/2017 11:27 am : link
to get the guy you want. They've had enough bad luck with qb's drafted #1 that they may be willing to listen. Remember, we didn't trade up to get Manning for free. It cost, but it turned out to be more than worth the cost.
If we are #2 no way I pay a huge price to move up.  
Stu11 : 12/4/2017 11:57 am : link
I love Eli. Absolutely love him. Lets be honest Ernie got played. The Chargers probably didn't even want him #1. Does anyone think our fortunes over the past 14 years would have been tremendously different with Roethlisberger or Rivers? Sure Eli is a much better person than both of them and maybe Roeth would have had problems with the NY media. Again I'm happy we made that decision, but its not one I'd repeat again. We need too much help on the OLine and RB's to be giving away premium picks to move up 1 spot. I don't see this as a P.Manning-Leaf or Bledsoe-Mirer scenario. I think if you talk to 5 draft evaluators they'll give a different order of her prospect QB's.
yes, i think our fortunes would be different  
MetsAreBack : 12/4/2017 12:40 pm : link
we'd be similar in the regular season and we'd make the playoffs about the same amount... but neither of those other guys has a) proven they can beat Brady in the postseason and b) has a high enough ceiling to make two superbowl runs.

When you win 2 superbowls during a tenure, you didnt get 'played' in any trade.

I also have serious concerns about Ben's ability to handle the NYC market... and Rivers' arm strength in the northeast versus in Southern Cal.

Finally - It worked out well for all 3 players and teams, IMO. At least none of the teams took Losman like Buffalo did. All have had splendid careers and done great things for their franchises.
The regime drafting the last two years  
bhill410 : 12/4/2017 1:24 pm : link
Isn’t the group in place prior. Say what you want about how they have spent them, the plan to suck & get as many draft picks in place seemed quite obvious. They clearly didn’t like QBs last year and likely knew this year was a stronger class so they traded down to get as many assets as possible. Depo may not know what to do with picks but he is a very smart guy who knows how to obtain them.
RE: yes, i think our fortunes would be different  
Stu11 : 12/4/2017 2:20 pm : link
In comment 13723034 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
we'd be similar in the regular season and we'd make the playoffs about the same amount... but neither of those other guys has a) proven they can beat Brady in the postseason and b) has a high enough ceiling to make two superbowl runs.

When you win 2 superbowls during a tenure, you didnt get 'played' in any trade.

I also have serious concerns about Ben's ability to handle the NYC market... and Rivers' arm strength in the northeast versus in Southern Cal.

Finally - It worked out well for all 3 players and teams, IMO. At least none of the teams took Losman like Buffalo did. All have had splendid careers and done great things for their franchises.

Come on on Ben Im no fan of him personally but the guy has won just as many SB's and been in more. Rivers has been just as good as Eli and has beern surrounded by disorginization and lousy D's. I'm glad we got Eli but frankly I don't think having those 2 changes much.
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