how everyone is talking where Eli will play next season. I see him starting for the Giants next year with the Rookie QB's getting ready to take his place when he is all done.
It is really premature to say that either Rosen or Darnold will be wearing Giants blue next season. Darnold may stay in school, or the new GM may prefer Webb plus whatever draft picks he can get by trading down.
nice that his streak came to an end for this chaos.
What a fiasco.
Maybe he saw and knew how this was going to go and did what he did knowing it’s the only way to fix this and as Eli has always done take one for the team. Yeah streak is over but he wasn’t going to be any higher than 2nd. Just another take
Further confirmation that this franchise is not being run Â
That Eli will back next year. Why not keep him healthy, why risk him getting killed behind this line, we're out of it! Get our future QB in this draft, fix the O-Line , Eli starts and mentors the new QB, and possibly make another run.
Am I dreaming???
that mara didn't have the balls to fire mcadoo and reese on tuesday and keep manning's consecutive starts streak and his legacy intact..
gutless, clueless, detached, deluded owner. i thought john mara is supposed to be the "football guy" and tisch the clueless dope.
Eli's legacy is in no way tainted by the end of the streak and the streak should've been the absolute last thing on the mind of any serious decision maker with this franchise.
of these firings + start Eli on sunday = mending a fence to have the option to keep him here next season
Maybe... but I think now that the streak is over, this is kind of pointless, and is probably motivated by trying to keep fans/ex players happy this weekend and to draw higher gate/concessions than they otherwise would have by starting Geno.
that mara didn't have the balls to fire mcadoo and reese on tuesday and keep manning's consecutive starts streak and his legacy intact..
gutless, clueless, detached, deluded owner. i thought john mara is supposed to be the "football guy" and tisch the clueless dope.
Eli's legacy is in no way tainted by the end of the streak and the streak should've been the absolute last thing on the mind of any serious decision maker with this franchise.
This^^^. The end of the streak nor this crappy season has absolutely no impact on Eli’s legacy. Nothing has changed in my eye as to how I look at his legacy.
They’re gonna have to rip off the band aid twice Â
Regardless if you think Eli is done or not (I personally don’t).
But let’s say you think Eli is toast. There’s no guarantee at this point the Giants will be in a position to draft the QB of the future. There’s no guarantee the guy they want will even be in the draft. So if you sever ties with Eli now or at the end of the season, they’re potentially stuck with Webb and some journeyman QB to move the franchise forward.
That Eli will back next year. Why not keep him healthy, why risk him getting killed behind this line, we're out of it! Get our future QB in this draft, fix the O-Line , Eli starts and mentors the new QB, and possibly make another run.
Am I dreaming???
Yes you are dreaming.
As an organization, we are at the point of "change". Now is the time
Bringing Eli back next year will only delay the process another year. Why do that?
Now we won't know what we have in Webb and blow a first round pick on a player who may or not be better than what is currently on the roster rather than drafting a player who we know is an improvement
No rookie QB will have the ability to read NFL defenses like a veteran QB. All Eli needs is more time to set up. The new GM needs to focus on OT and OG at the top of the Draft. Webb showed in the pre-season that he can play. No QB can succeed here if the outside tackles cannot hold their own and your Guards cannot open holes in the line to convert on third down by running the football.
that mara didn't have the balls to fire mcadoo and reese on tuesday and keep manning's consecutive starts streak and his legacy intact..
gutless, clueless, detached, deluded owner. i thought john mara is supposed to be the "football guy" and tisch the clueless dope.
Eli's legacy is in no way tainted by the end of the streak and the streak should've been the absolute last thing on the mind of any serious decision maker with this franchise.
you're wrong on this. if eli gets passed by phil rivers on the no. 2 consecutive starts streak, that absolutely is a blow to his legacy, albeit a minor one. just as being benched in-season by his coach, albeit an inept coach, is a blow to his legacy, and for a lot of people it confirms their apriori beliefs that eli has been, and is, what was holding NYG back the last 5 years and that he is little more than a trent dilfer who got lucky on 2 chuck and ducks (to tyree, to manningham).
i also disagree that the treatment of eli "should have been the last thing on the mind of any serious decisionmaker." what should have been the first thing on their mind? getting a look a smith and webb in live game action with a shit OL, no WRs, and no running game, in the last 2-3 games of the season? that was what happened, and mcadoo couched it in similar terms as you- as evidence of his being a "serious decisionmaker".. a selfless decision, and evidence of his doing what's best for the future of the franchise. reese backed him. both were out of a job 6 days later. why do you think? i would argue due to the impact on eli and his legacy with the team, and in the league.
Regardless if you think Eli is done or not (I personally don’t).
But let’s say you think Eli is toast. There’s no guarantee at this point the Giants will be in a position to draft the QB of the future. There’s no guarantee the guy they want will even be in the draft. So if you sever ties with Eli now or at the end of the season, they’re potentially stuck with Webb and some journeyman QB to move the franchise forward.
i disagree. right now we are looking at the #2 pick in the draft, with the browns getting the first pick. 49ers dont need a QB.
so we are in prime position to draft our future QB
that mara didn't have the balls to fire mcadoo and reese on tuesday and keep manning's consecutive starts streak and his legacy intact..
gutless, clueless, detached, deluded owner. i thought john mara is supposed to be the "football guy" and tisch the clueless dope.
Eli's legacy is in no way tainted by the end of the streak and the streak should've been the absolute last thing on the mind of any serious decision maker with this franchise.
you're wrong on this. if eli gets passed by phil rivers on the no. 2 consecutive starts streak, that absolutely is a blow to his legacy, albeit a minor one. just as being benched in-season by his coach, albeit an inept coach, is a blow to his legacy, and for a lot of people it confirms their apriori beliefs that eli has been, and is, what was holding NYG back the last 5 years and that he is little more than a trent dilfer who got lucky on 2 chuck and ducks (to tyree, to manningham).
i also disagree that the treatment of eli "should have been the last thing on the mind of any serious decisionmaker." what should have been the first thing on their mind? getting a look a smith and webb in live game action with a shit OL, no WRs, and no running game, in the last 2-3 games of the season? that was what happened, and mcadoo couched it in similar terms as you- as evidence of his being a "serious decisionmaker".. a selfless decision, and evidence of his doing what's best for the future of the franchise. reese backed him. both were out of a job 6 days later. why do you think? i would argue due to the impact on eli and his legacy with the team, and in the league.
Fun fact: consecutive games started doesn't get you into the Hall of Fame.
Someone eventually would possoblly pass Eli. If someone does it in 2031, does his legacy take a hit?
If ownership disagreed with the decision to bench Eli then they should have acted on this last week. Realistically nothing was going to change between then and after the Raiders game.
This is an example of either weak leadership by not reining in McAdoo on the initial decision, or weak leadership by succumbing to pressure by the players and fans after just 1 game with another QB.
I would've preferred they remain with the dysfunction of McAdoo which assured them of a 2-14 finish. The Giant could wind up winning another one or two games with Eli back behind center and that interim coach bounce that teams sometimes get when their head coach is replaced midseason.
If ownership disagreed with the decision to bench Eli then they should have acted on this last week. Realistically nothing was going to change between then and after the Raiders game.
This is an example of either weak leadership by not reining in McAdoo on the initial decision, or weak leadership by succumbing to pressure by the players and fans after just 1 game with another QB.
the issue is there are two owners - and they may not necessarily have agreed on approach.
did anyone know who held it before Favre? I'm guessing not. His consecutive starts were only mentioned to support his tough image. Most people don't care. I never heard of anyone dinging a legacy of being tough for missing a game here or there (like mcnair). My only problem with it (outside the asinine way it all went down) is they did it for absolutely no reason. If Webb was never planned to be worked in during this awful season, manning should have never been pulled.
I would've preferred they remain with the dysfunction of McAdoo which assured them of a 2-14 finish. The Giant could wind up winning another one or two games with Eli back behind center and that interim coach bounce that teams sometimes get when their head coach is replaced midseason.
If ownership disagreed with the decision to bench Eli then they should have acted on this last week. Realistically nothing was going to change between then and after the Raiders game.
This is an example of either weak leadership by not reining in McAdoo on the initial decision, or weak leadership by succumbing to pressure by the players and fans after just 1 game with another QB.
so its kinda obvious what they are doing here, right...
everyone agreed that i was time to move on from Eli
FOR WHATEVER REASON, owners didnt thinking benching Eli would cause this much backlash
to avoid empty seats and as PR control, they are going to play Eli again (even tho it doesnt make sense)
Regardless if you think Eli is done or not (I personally don’t).
But let’s say you think Eli is toast. There’s no guarantee at this point the Giants will be in a position to draft the QB of the future. There’s no guarantee the guy they want will even be in the draft. So if you sever ties with Eli now or at the end of the season, they’re potentially stuck with Webb and some journeyman QB to move the franchise forward.
i disagree. right now we are looking at the #2 pick in the draft, with the browns getting the first pick. 49ers dont need a QB.
so we are in prime position to draft our future QB
There’s still 4 games left. Winning one game could push the Giants out of contention for Rosen or Darnold if that’s who you want.
Regarding Webb, there’s way too many people on this site that have confidence in Webb as the future. The truth is he was a 3rd round pick from a fired GM who sucked in the draft.
And disrespectful. However, we still need to find out what we have in Webb before the season is over. I would start Webb in the final four games to see if we can get an indication of whether or not he is capable of being our future starter. Wouldn't it be perfect if we did not need to use this top 3 pick on a QB?
Fun fact: consecutive games started doesn't get you into the Hall of Fame.
Someone eventually would possoblly pass Eli. If someone does it in 2031, does his legacy take a hit?
as of now, in my mind, eli is a borderline hall of famer (8th all time in TDs, 7th all time in yards, 7th all time in 4th quarter comebacks, 2 SB rings/mvps, but with a lot of INTs, a few terrible seasons (i.e., 2013), and a fairly low completion %), but i am maybe biased in my view of him, as i am a giants fan.
you perhaps underestimate just how negatively he is viewed outside of the ny giants fanbase.
my point is that being 2nd all-time in consecutive starts is one more accomplishment in his body of work to make the case.
for whatever reason, eli getting into the HoF is incredibly important to me as a fan, as he helped deliver 2 SBs to this franchise, as well as to prove all of his haters wrong.
i also don't remotely believe that eli is done, or what was wrong with the offense, so sitting him to start smith and later webb, always seemed dumb to me on its face. i have no doubt eli would have wanted to continue his career here next year, and surrounded by better talent and coaching, could probably be successful. so benching him to get a look at geno smith and forfeiting games seemed incredibly dumb to me (as did drafting davis webb in the first place)
If ownership disagreed with the decision to bench Eli then they should have acted on this last week. Realistically nothing was going to change between then and after the Raiders game.
This is an example of either weak leadership by not reining in McAdoo on the initial decision, or weak leadership by succumbing to pressure by the players and fans after just 1 game with another QB.
exactly.. mara couldn't have botched the handling of the eli situation worse, except maybe by doing this, now, post hoc.
nice that his streak came to an end for this chaos.
What a fiasco.
I think JohnF had the most interesting take on this. McAdoo was set up to be the designated villain who broke the streak, but the Giants needed the streak to be broken either way so that it wasn't hanging over the head of the next regime and whatever QB they draft. McAdoo leaves with the blood on his hands, but wasn't alone in the decision.
That said, the streak isn't really that meaningful going forward - Eli got to as far as he was going to in terms of the list itself and was never going to catch Favre, so it's not really worth getting that worked up about.
nice that his streak came to an end for this chaos.
What a fiasco.
I think JohnF had the most interesting take on this. McAdoo was set up to be the designated villain who broke the streak, but the Giants needed the streak to be broken either way so that it wasn't hanging over the head of the next regime and whatever QB they draft. McAdoo leaves with the blood on his hands, but wasn't alone in the decision.
That said, the streak isn't really that meaningful going forward - Eli got to as far as he was going to in terms of the list itself and was never going to catch Favre, so it's not really worth getting that worked up about.
that mara didn't have the balls to fire mcadoo and reese on tuesday and keep manning's consecutive starts streak and his legacy intact..
gutless, clueless, detached, deluded owner. i thought john mara is supposed to be the "football guy" and tisch the clueless dope.
Stop with the legacy nonsense. Eli won two Super Bowls and two Super Bowl MVPs. If you think the streak is his legacy, you're damning him with faint praise.
They should have fired McAdoo immediately after he benched Eli.
BrettNYG10 : 1:16 pm : link : reply
Webb is not ready he gets zero reps with the first team
why get him killed before he is ready .
Geno is a career back up I don't dislike him and he is a good enough backup but he just makes too many mistakes and
thats his downfall .
The fact that MacCrapadoo wasted any snaps at all on Josh Johnson made the situation worse the first team offense
was struggling they needed more reps especially Eli thats why we came out of the gates DOA on offense it's on the Coach and even more so on the GM
Given they likely can't fix the OL in one offseason Â
nice that his streak came to an end for this chaos.
What a fiasco.
I think JohnF had the most interesting take on this. McAdoo was set up to be the designated villain who broke the streak, but the Giants needed the streak to be broken either way so that it wasn't hanging over the head of the next regime and whatever QB they draft. McAdoo leaves with the blood on his hands, but wasn't alone in the decision.
That said, the streak isn't really that meaningful going forward - Eli got to as far as he was going to in terms of the list itself and was never going to catch Favre, so it's not really worth getting that worked up about.
Rivers can catch him now tho
Who cares? Miguel Tejada caught Steve Garvey, but no one cares because neither of them caught Gehrig or Ripken.
with the regime change. No new GM/Head Coach will want a QB controversy. I expect the Giants to draft a QB and take their lumps for 2018 with Davis Webb and Geno backing up the new rookie QB. Need a couple of years of good drafting/free agency in order to compete with the Eagles by 2019.
with the regime change. No new GM/Head Coach will want a QB controversy. I expect the Giants to draft a QB and take their lumps for 2018 with Davis Webb and Geno backing up the new rookie QB. Need a couple of years of good drafting/free agency in order to compete with the Eagles by 2019.
What controversy? Eli would start and a rookie or Webb would be #2. With a few legitimate OL FA signings and Eli at the helm, this could be a playoff team next year.
so we wasted yesterday to ruin the guys streak...brilliant.
Well, the one positive is this won't be over the new head coach's head when the time comes to really replace Eli with a viable replacement, not Geno Smith. What a strange hill for McAdoo to die on.
As I said last week, McAdoo became a useful idiot to Mara.
Also, I do wonder if by cleaning house, they do their part to mend fences with Eli and go back to the plan I was pushing before all this nonsense, look to make next year similar to 1993, get a new coach, with your 2 time Super Bowl winning QB able to start one more season while your 2 young QBs learn and get ready to take over in 2019.
so we wasted yesterday to ruin the guys streak...brilliant.
Well, the one positive is this won't be over the new head coach's head when the time comes to really replace Eli with a viable replacement, not Geno Smith. What a strange hill for McAdoo to die on.
As I said last week, McAdoo became a useful idiot to Mara.
Also, I do wonder if by cleaning house, they do their part to mend fences with Eli and go back to the plan I was pushing before all this nonsense, look to make next year similar to 1993, get a new coach, with your 2 time Super Bowl winning QB able to start one more season while your 2 young QBs learn and get ready to take over in 2019.
Assuming they handle it better than they did in 1993, I agree. But, now that the prospect of ending the streak and replacing Eli has already been broached, I would start Webb the last 4 to properly evaluate him before the draft.
I think McAdoo did the team a great disservice by his handling of Webb. When Geno was signed, Johnson should have been cut immediately and Webb should have gotten all those snaps in the summer. During the season, Webb should have been getting snaps in practice, perhaps running the scout team. Once the season was shot, he should have been elevated to #2 to get even more practice. Here they are, with a perfect opportunity to play the kid without the pressure of being the one who ended the streak and he still isn't ready to play.
"Great, now we can't see what we have in Webb". What in the fuck do you think Davis Webb is going to do? No offensive line, no running game and practice squad WRs. What were we going to see? Him get sacked? Him turn the ball over? Seriously. Fuck Webb. He was average in college. When this season tanked... We all knew what needed to happen. We get a blue chip QB in the 1st round. Sits a year or 2 behind Manning. Eli retires. Said QB becomes the new QB.
Quit talking about Webb. He's not the answer. He will be a career backup in the NFL. If he's lucky.
"Great, now we can't see what we have in Webb". What in the fuck do you think Davis Webb is going to do? No offensive line, no running game and practice squad WRs. What were we going to see? Him get sacked? Him turn the ball over? Seriously. Fuck Webb. He was average in college. When this season tanked... We all knew what needed to happen. We get a blue chip QB in the 1st round. Sits a year or 2 behind Manning. Eli retires. Said QB becomes the new QB.
Quit talking about Webb. He's not the answer. He will be a career backup in the NFL. If he's lucky.
Now I think that’s a tad harsh! But I do agree w you in the fact that starting Webb the last few games is not going to show you much. Not with this offense. You are still going to pick a QB at the top of the draft if there’s a guy there that you like a lot. Nothing Webb does in a few games is going to change that.
"Great, now we can't see what we have in Webb". What in the fuck do you think Davis Webb is going to do? No offensive line, no running game and practice squad WRs. What were we going to see? Him get sacked? Him turn the ball over? Seriously. Fuck Webb. He was average in college. When this season tanked... We all knew what needed to happen. We get a blue chip QB in the 1st round. Sits a year or 2 behind Manning. Eli retires. Said QB becomes the new QB.
Quit talking about Webb. He's not the answer. He will be a career backup in the NFL. If he's lucky.
Some experience for Webb is better than no experience
I honestly don't think there's a place for Webb on this team anymore. Obviously 2-14 hurt McAdoo and Reese the most, but I think after them, you could argue it hurts Webb nearly as much. At least as far as being a future Giant is concerned.
RE: RE: RE: Given they likely can't fix the OL in one offseason Â
They are going to pick a franchise QB, no doubt. The new coach is going to want to compete and fast (frankly, I think that we still have a lot of pieces in place to compete quickly). You won't sign the type of QB to do that who will also agree to be a placeholder. They had a plan in place with Eli and he likely would still be amenable to that plan (substituting the bluechip for Webb).
Webb should absolutely NOT start a game this season Â
He’s had no time in the limited practice time slotted, he’s been 100% neglected and there will be a new scheme next year.
There is no o line, no running game, no wide receivers. Why the hell would you put a kid in to take that punishment?
Put Eli in to run out 2017 and 2018. Webb isn’t close to being pro ready, we will have a rookie qb in the draft, and you can make a transition smoothly.
Fix the fucking line.
RE: Webb should absolutely NOT start a game this season Â
He’s had no time in the limited practice time slotted, he’s been 100% neglected and there will be a new scheme next year.
There is no o line, no running game, no wide receivers. Why the hell would you put a kid in to take that punishment?
Put Eli in to run out 2017 and 2018. Webb isn’t close to being pro ready, we will have a rookie qb in the draft, and you can make a transition smoothly.
He’s had no time in the limited practice time slotted, he’s been 100% neglected and there will be a new scheme next year.
There is no o line, no running game, no wide receivers. Why the hell would you put a kid in to take that punishment?
Put Eli in to run out 2017 and 2018. Webb isn’t close to being pro ready, we will have a rookie qb in the draft, and you can make a transition smoothly.
Install an offense that maximizes Eli's strengths and goes away from his weaknesses. What do we know about Eli?
Strengths
- Durable
- Smart reading defenses
- Accurate intermediate to deep
- Plays well in big spots
Weaknesses
- Inconsistent mechanics
- Immobile
- Can be turnover prone
- Inaccurate short
Watch what the Rams are doing right now with Goff, and the types of passes he's throwing. If I could copy any offense to install with the Giants it would be what the Rams are doing. The closest thing that could be available is Kubiak's offense.
I want to see Eli running stretch handoffs and playaction off those handoffs.
it woule be grossly unfair to throw Webb in there. he's completely Â
What they should have done was cut Smith after the 0-5 start so Webb could at least get some practice reps and be prepared to get his feet wet late in the season.
I don't know if Norv Turner is done with coaching after quitting the Â
What they should have done was cut Smith after the 0-5 start so Webb could at least get some practice reps and be prepared to get his feet wet late in the season.
Agreed with what should have been done. I have been saying what I think should be done is Webb start. But, I don't think I clearly communicated that is ideal...if they had been preparing him with practice reps for weeks.
At this point, though, I don't know that I would go back to Eli either.
No. I want them to punch the Cowboys, Eagles and Redskins in the face with Eli at the helm because they're division games and I hate all three of those teams and also to show how badly McAdoo sucked.
No. I want them to punch the Cowboys, Eagles and Redskins in the face with Eli at the helm because they're division games and I hate all three of those teams and also to show how badly McAdoo sucked.
I want to win too
RE: RE: RE: Webb should absolutely NOT start a game this season Â
He’s had no time in the limited practice time slotted, he’s been 100% neglected and there will be a new scheme next year.
There is no o line, no running game, no wide receivers. Why the hell would you put a kid in to take that punishment?
Put Eli in to run out 2017 and 2018. Webb isn’t close to being pro ready, we will have a rookie qb in the draft, and you can make a transition smoothly.
Fix the fucking line.
It's not complicated.
Exactly.
Actually the oline is complicated. Reese tried to fix it. He failed. Other teams have struggled mightily as well.
I wanted a guy like Riley rieff or whitworth or even both this last offseason but those guys wouldn't fix everything here. They might have struggled here.
It's not as simple as cluster drafting or signing the shiny FA. Giants need to get a little lucky. Injuries play a part.
What is gained by winning that game? They beat the cowboys last year too. You get to cheer for a week and then realize they're still a terrible football team. Nobody even remembers or cares about last year's wins.
At this point it's painfully obvious the team needs a lot of help. They're in a position that could change the course of the franchise for the next ten years. If they get that pick right, there will be plenty of chances to keep beating the cowboys for the next decade or more. You wouldn't have traded the chance to draft Eli Manning for winning a cowboys game, so don't dismiss the value just because it's not a guarantee.
What is gained by winning that game? They beat the cowboys last year too. You get to cheer for a week and then realize they're still a terrible football team. Nobody even remembers or cares about last year's wins.
At this point it's painfully obvious the team needs a lot of help. They're in a position that could change the course of the franchise for the next ten years. If they get that pick right, there will be plenty of chances to keep beating the cowboys for the next decade or more. You wouldn't have traded the chance to draft Eli Manning for winning a cowboys game, so don't dismiss the value just because it's not a guarantee.
What a fiasco.
Agreed, if Darnold is the pick he needs a year
It was just the wrong thing to do to the guy, regardless of "the future of the team." That was and is complete and utter bullshit.
Good. At least some order is restored.
Agreed.
It is really premature to say that either Rosen or Darnold will be wearing Giants blue next season. Darnold may stay in school, or the new GM may prefer Webb plus whatever draft picks he can get by trading down.
What a fiasco.
Maybe he saw and knew how this was going to go and did what he did knowing it’s the only way to fix this and as Eli has always done take one for the team. Yeah streak is over but he wasn’t going to be any higher than 2nd. Just another take
And Geno.. Geno had to go and ruin a good thing by right away airing his petty grievances from his brand new high horse visa vis Rex Ryan.
Wups.
gutless, clueless, detached, deluded owner. i thought john mara is supposed to be the "football guy" and tisch the clueless dope.
This thing is a total shitshow.
Agree. Eli in 2025!
Am I dreaming???
gutless, clueless, detached, deluded owner. i thought john mara is supposed to be the "football guy" and tisch the clueless dope.
Eli's legacy is in no way tainted by the end of the streak and the streak should've been the absolute last thing on the mind of any serious decision maker with this franchise.
Pretty clear they never had any intention of playing Webb. Probably won't suit up in any of the remaining games.
Yes. On to the playoffs!
Maybe... but I think now that the streak is over, this is kind of pointless, and is probably motivated by trying to keep fans/ex players happy this weekend and to draw higher gate/concessions than they otherwise would have by starting Geno.
Get over the stupid streak.
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that mara didn't have the balls to fire mcadoo and reese on tuesday and keep manning's consecutive starts streak and his legacy intact..
gutless, clueless, detached, deluded owner. i thought john mara is supposed to be the "football guy" and tisch the clueless dope.
Eli's legacy is in no way tainted by the end of the streak and the streak should've been the absolute last thing on the mind of any serious decision maker with this franchise.
This^^^. The end of the streak nor this crappy season has absolutely no impact on Eli’s legacy. Nothing has changed in my eye as to how I look at his legacy.
But let’s say you think Eli is toast. There’s no guarantee at this point the Giants will be in a position to draft the QB of the future. There’s no guarantee the guy they want will even be in the draft. So if you sever ties with Eli now or at the end of the season, they’re potentially stuck with Webb and some journeyman QB to move the franchise forward.
How many of you guys were writing his obituary around here???
And how would it look if he came out after half for Webb? Something's off here...
Yup.
Am I dreaming???
Yes you are dreaming.
As an organization, we are at the point of "change". Now is the time
Bringing Eli back next year will only delay the process another year. Why do that?
Quote:
that mara didn't have the balls to fire mcadoo and reese on tuesday and keep manning's consecutive starts streak and his legacy intact..
gutless, clueless, detached, deluded owner. i thought john mara is supposed to be the "football guy" and tisch the clueless dope.
Eli's legacy is in no way tainted by the end of the streak and the streak should've been the absolute last thing on the mind of any serious decision maker with this franchise.
you're wrong on this. if eli gets passed by phil rivers on the no. 2 consecutive starts streak, that absolutely is a blow to his legacy, albeit a minor one. just as being benched in-season by his coach, albeit an inept coach, is a blow to his legacy, and for a lot of people it confirms their apriori beliefs that eli has been, and is, what was holding NYG back the last 5 years and that he is little more than a trent dilfer who got lucky on 2 chuck and ducks (to tyree, to manningham).
i also disagree that the treatment of eli "should have been the last thing on the mind of any serious decisionmaker." what should have been the first thing on their mind? getting a look a smith and webb in live game action with a shit OL, no WRs, and no running game, in the last 2-3 games of the season? that was what happened, and mcadoo couched it in similar terms as you- as evidence of his being a "serious decisionmaker".. a selfless decision, and evidence of his doing what's best for the future of the franchise. reese backed him. both were out of a job 6 days later. why do you think? i would argue due to the impact on eli and his legacy with the team, and in the league.
But let’s say you think Eli is toast. There’s no guarantee at this point the Giants will be in a position to draft the QB of the future. There’s no guarantee the guy they want will even be in the draft. So if you sever ties with Eli now or at the end of the season, they’re potentially stuck with Webb and some journeyman QB to move the franchise forward.
i disagree. right now we are looking at the #2 pick in the draft, with the browns getting the first pick. 49ers dont need a QB.
so we are in prime position to draft our future QB
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In comment 13723259 japanhead said:
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that mara didn't have the balls to fire mcadoo and reese on tuesday and keep manning's consecutive starts streak and his legacy intact..
gutless, clueless, detached, deluded owner. i thought john mara is supposed to be the "football guy" and tisch the clueless dope.
Eli's legacy is in no way tainted by the end of the streak and the streak should've been the absolute last thing on the mind of any serious decision maker with this franchise.
you're wrong on this. if eli gets passed by phil rivers on the no. 2 consecutive starts streak, that absolutely is a blow to his legacy, albeit a minor one. just as being benched in-season by his coach, albeit an inept coach, is a blow to his legacy, and for a lot of people it confirms their apriori beliefs that eli has been, and is, what was holding NYG back the last 5 years and that he is little more than a trent dilfer who got lucky on 2 chuck and ducks (to tyree, to manningham).
i also disagree that the treatment of eli "should have been the last thing on the mind of any serious decisionmaker." what should have been the first thing on their mind? getting a look a smith and webb in live game action with a shit OL, no WRs, and no running game, in the last 2-3 games of the season? that was what happened, and mcadoo couched it in similar terms as you- as evidence of his being a "serious decisionmaker".. a selfless decision, and evidence of his doing what's best for the future of the franchise. reese backed him. both were out of a job 6 days later. why do you think? i would argue due to the impact on eli and his legacy with the team, and in the league.
Fun fact: consecutive games started doesn't get you into the Hall of Fame.
Someone eventually would possoblly pass Eli. If someone does it in 2031, does his legacy take a hit?
This is an example of either weak leadership by not reining in McAdoo on the initial decision, or weak leadership by succumbing to pressure by the players and fans after just 1 game with another QB.
This is an example of either weak leadership by not reining in McAdoo on the initial decision, or weak leadership by succumbing to pressure by the players and fans after just 1 game with another QB.
Yep.
This is an example of either weak leadership by not reining in McAdoo on the initial decision, or weak leadership by succumbing to pressure by the players and fans after just 1 game with another QB.
so its kinda obvious what they are doing here, right...
everyone agreed that i was time to move on from Eli
FOR WHATEVER REASON, owners didnt thinking benching Eli would cause this much backlash
to avoid empty seats and as PR control, they are going to play Eli again (even tho it doesnt make sense)
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Regardless if you think Eli is done or not (I personally don’t).
But let’s say you think Eli is toast. There’s no guarantee at this point the Giants will be in a position to draft the QB of the future. There’s no guarantee the guy they want will even be in the draft. So if you sever ties with Eli now or at the end of the season, they’re potentially stuck with Webb and some journeyman QB to move the franchise forward.
i disagree. right now we are looking at the #2 pick in the draft, with the browns getting the first pick. 49ers dont need a QB.
so we are in prime position to draft our future QB
There’s still 4 games left. Winning one game could push the Giants out of contention for Rosen or Darnold if that’s who you want.
Regarding Webb, there’s way too many people on this site that have confidence in Webb as the future. The truth is he was a 3rd round pick from a fired GM who sucked in the draft.
Mara signed off on it. And is now trying to cover his tracks. Which he will be able to do with the help of the fans and the media.
Fun fact: consecutive games started doesn't get you into the Hall of Fame.
Someone eventually would possoblly pass Eli. If someone does it in 2031, does his legacy take a hit?
as of now, in my mind, eli is a borderline hall of famer (8th all time in TDs, 7th all time in yards, 7th all time in 4th quarter comebacks, 2 SB rings/mvps, but with a lot of INTs, a few terrible seasons (i.e., 2013), and a fairly low completion %), but i am maybe biased in my view of him, as i am a giants fan.
you perhaps underestimate just how negatively he is viewed outside of the ny giants fanbase.
my point is that being 2nd all-time in consecutive starts is one more accomplishment in his body of work to make the case.
for whatever reason, eli getting into the HoF is incredibly important to me as a fan, as he helped deliver 2 SBs to this franchise, as well as to prove all of his haters wrong.
i also don't remotely believe that eli is done, or what was wrong with the offense, so sitting him to start smith and later webb, always seemed dumb to me on its face. i have no doubt eli would have wanted to continue his career here next year, and surrounded by better talent and coaching, could probably be successful. so benching him to get a look at geno smith and forfeiting games seemed incredibly dumb to me (as did drafting davis webb in the first place)
This is an example of either weak leadership by not reining in McAdoo on the initial decision, or weak leadership by succumbing to pressure by the players and fans after just 1 game with another QB.
exactly.. mara couldn't have botched the handling of the eli situation worse, except maybe by doing this, now, post hoc.
Is that a rhetorical question?
What a fiasco.
I think JohnF had the most interesting take on this. McAdoo was set up to be the designated villain who broke the streak, but the Giants needed the streak to be broken either way so that it wasn't hanging over the head of the next regime and whatever QB they draft. McAdoo leaves with the blood on his hands, but wasn't alone in the decision.
That said, the streak isn't really that meaningful going forward - Eli got to as far as he was going to in terms of the list itself and was never going to catch Favre, so it's not really worth getting that worked up about.
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nice that his streak came to an end for this chaos.
What a fiasco.
I think JohnF had the most interesting take on this. McAdoo was set up to be the designated villain who broke the streak, but the Giants needed the streak to be broken either way so that it wasn't hanging over the head of the next regime and whatever QB they draft. McAdoo leaves with the blood on his hands, but wasn't alone in the decision.
That said, the streak isn't really that meaningful going forward - Eli got to as far as he was going to in terms of the list itself and was never going to catch Favre, so it's not really worth getting that worked up about.
Rivers can catch him now tho
gutless, clueless, detached, deluded owner. i thought john mara is supposed to be the "football guy" and tisch the clueless dope.
Stop with the legacy nonsense. Eli won two Super Bowls and two Super Bowl MVPs. If you think the streak is his legacy, you're damning him with faint praise.
BrettNYG10 : 1:16 pm : link : reply
Webb is not ready he gets zero reps with the first team
why get him killed before he is ready .
Geno is a career back up I don't dislike him and he is a good enough backup but he just makes too many mistakes and
thats his downfall .
The fact that MacCrapadoo wasted any snaps at all on Josh Johnson made the situation worse the first team offense
was struggling they needed more reps especially Eli thats why we came out of the gates DOA on offense it's on the Coach and even more so on the GM
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In comment 13723202 AcidTest said:
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nice that his streak came to an end for this chaos.
What a fiasco.
I think JohnF had the most interesting take on this. McAdoo was set up to be the designated villain who broke the streak, but the Giants needed the streak to be broken either way so that it wasn't hanging over the head of the next regime and whatever QB they draft. McAdoo leaves with the blood on his hands, but wasn't alone in the decision.
That said, the streak isn't really that meaningful going forward - Eli got to as far as he was going to in terms of the list itself and was never going to catch Favre, so it's not really worth getting that worked up about.
Rivers can catch him now tho
Who cares? Miguel Tejada caught Steve Garvey, but no one cares because neither of them caught Gehrig or Ripken.
You have that backwards. New head coaches and especially GM's don't like to be saddled with other people's QB.
They want their own guy.
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And that new HCs hate being saddled with rookie QBs (behind shaky OLs, no less), it makes sense that Eli will be back -- IF HE WANTS TO BE BACK.
You have that backwards. New head coaches and especially GM's don't like to be saddled with other people's QB.
They want their own guy.
That's what the 1st round pick is for.
Well, the one positive is this won't be over the new head coach's head when the time comes to really replace Eli with a viable replacement, not Geno Smith. What a strange hill for McAdoo to die on.
As I said last week, McAdoo became a useful idiot to Mara.
Also, I do wonder if by cleaning house, they do their part to mend fences with Eli and go back to the plan I was pushing before all this nonsense, look to make next year similar to 1993, get a new coach, with your 2 time Super Bowl winning QB able to start one more season while your 2 young QBs learn and get ready to take over in 2019.
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so we wasted yesterday to ruin the guys streak...brilliant.
Well, the one positive is this won't be over the new head coach's head when the time comes to really replace Eli with a viable replacement, not Geno Smith. What a strange hill for McAdoo to die on.
As I said last week, McAdoo became a useful idiot to Mara.
Also, I do wonder if by cleaning house, they do their part to mend fences with Eli and go back to the plan I was pushing before all this nonsense, look to make next year similar to 1993, get a new coach, with your 2 time Super Bowl winning QB able to start one more season while your 2 young QBs learn and get ready to take over in 2019.
I think McAdoo did the team a great disservice by his handling of Webb. When Geno was signed, Johnson should have been cut immediately and Webb should have gotten all those snaps in the summer. During the season, Webb should have been getting snaps in practice, perhaps running the scout team. Once the season was shot, he should have been elevated to #2 to get even more practice. Here they are, with a perfect opportunity to play the kid without the pressure of being the one who ended the streak and he still isn't ready to play.
Why waste a roster spot now
Giants can always say Geno was Macadoo’s boy
It’s a cold business !
Quit talking about Webb. He's not the answer. He will be a career backup in the NFL. If he's lucky.
Quit talking about Webb. He's not the answer. He will be a career backup in the NFL. If he's lucky.
Now I think that’s a tad harsh! But I do agree w you in the fact that starting Webb the last few games is not going to show you much. Not with this offense. You are still going to pick a QB at the top of the draft if there’s a guy there that you like a lot. Nothing Webb does in a few games is going to change that.
Quit talking about Webb. He's not the answer. He will be a career backup in the NFL. If he's lucky.
Some experience for Webb is better than no experience
And QBs don't really sit 2 years anymore
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In comment 13723559 David B. said:
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And that new HCs hate being saddled with rookie QBs (behind shaky OLs, no less), it makes sense that Eli will be back -- IF HE WANTS TO BE BACK.
You have that backwards. New head coaches and especially GM's don't like to be saddled with other people's QB.
They want their own guy.
That's what the 1st round pick is for.
That falls right in line with wanting their own guy...
The original comment said new coaches don't like rookie QBs.
There is no o line, no running game, no wide receivers. Why the hell would you put a kid in to take that punishment?
Put Eli in to run out 2017 and 2018. Webb isn’t close to being pro ready, we will have a rookie qb in the draft, and you can make a transition smoothly.
Fix the fucking line.
There is no o line, no running game, no wide receivers. Why the hell would you put a kid in to take that punishment?
Put Eli in to run out 2017 and 2018. Webb isn’t close to being pro ready, we will have a rookie qb in the draft, and you can make a transition smoothly.
Fix the fucking line.
It's not complicated.
Quit talking about Webb. He's not the answer. He will be a career backup in the NFL. If he's lucky.
Based on what? It's not like you know any more than anyone else.
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He’s had no time in the limited practice time slotted, he’s been 100% neglected and there will be a new scheme next year.
There is no o line, no running game, no wide receivers. Why the hell would you put a kid in to take that punishment?
Put Eli in to run out 2017 and 2018. Webb isn’t close to being pro ready, we will have a rookie qb in the draft, and you can make a transition smoothly.
Fix the fucking line.
It's not complicated.
Exactly.
Strengths
- Durable
- Smart reading defenses
- Accurate intermediate to deep
- Plays well in big spots
Weaknesses
- Inconsistent mechanics
- Immobile
- Can be turnover prone
- Inaccurate short
Watch what the Rams are doing right now with Goff, and the types of passes he's throwing. If I could copy any offense to install with the Giants it would be what the Rams are doing. The closest thing that could be available is Kubiak's offense.
I want to see Eli running stretch handoffs and playaction off those handoffs.
What they should have done was cut Smith after the 0-5 start so Webb could at least get some practice reps and be prepared to get his feet wet late in the season.
What they should have done was cut Smith after the 0-5 start so Webb could at least get some practice reps and be prepared to get his feet wet late in the season.
At this point, though, I don't know that I would go back to Eli either.
No. I want them to punch the Cowboys, Eagles and Redskins in the face with Eli at the helm because they're division games and I hate all three of those teams and also to show how badly McAdoo sucked.
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One that wants to beat the Cowboys?
No. I want them to punch the Cowboys, Eagles and Redskins in the face with Eli at the helm because they're division games and I hate all three of those teams and also to show how badly McAdoo sucked.
I want to win too
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In comment 13723950 glowrider said:
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He’s had no time in the limited practice time slotted, he’s been 100% neglected and there will be a new scheme next year.
There is no o line, no running game, no wide receivers. Why the hell would you put a kid in to take that punishment?
Put Eli in to run out 2017 and 2018. Webb isn’t close to being pro ready, we will have a rookie qb in the draft, and you can make a transition smoothly.
Fix the fucking line.
It's not complicated.
Exactly.
Actually the oline is complicated. Reese tried to fix it. He failed. Other teams have struggled mightily as well.
I wanted a guy like Riley rieff or whitworth or even both this last offseason but those guys wouldn't fix everything here. They might have struggled here.
It's not as simple as cluster drafting or signing the shiny FA. Giants need to get a little lucky. Injuries play a part.
You're not alone.
What is gained by winning that game? They beat the cowboys last year too. You get to cheer for a week and then realize they're still a terrible football team. Nobody even remembers or cares about last year's wins.
At this point it's painfully obvious the team needs a lot of help. They're in a position that could change the course of the franchise for the next ten years. If they get that pick right, there will be plenty of chances to keep beating the cowboys for the next decade or more. You wouldn't have traded the chance to draft Eli Manning for winning a cowboys game, so don't dismiss the value just because it's not a guarantee.
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One that wants to beat the Cowboys?
What is gained by winning that game? They beat the cowboys last year too. You get to cheer for a week and then realize they're still a terrible football team. Nobody even remembers or cares about last year's wins.
At this point it's painfully obvious the team needs a lot of help. They're in a position that could change the course of the franchise for the next ten years. If they get that pick right, there will be plenty of chances to keep beating the cowboys for the next decade or more. You wouldn't have traded the chance to draft Eli Manning for winning a cowboys game, so don't dismiss the value just because it's not a guarantee.
This is 1000% accurate.