Perfect storm situation
Won 11 games last year, thought OL group would take a step forward
Offense wasn’t good last year, but thought they’d be better with additions at WR/TE
Defense unchanged, haven’t played as well
Not afraid to hire a young HC
Owners have final say on HC but decision will largely be made by new GM
Have names in mind but won’t get into it
Scouts will be the same
New GM will bring their own scouts. Scouts will get cleaned out after the draft.
RE: Accorsi has been a Nick Saban fan for decades... Â
Perfect storm situation
Won 11 games last year, thought OL group would take a step forward
Offense wasn’t good last year, but thought they’d be better with additions at WR/TE
Defense unchanged, haven’t played as well
Not afraid to hire a young HC
Owners have final say on HC but decision will largely be made by new GM
Have names in mind but won’t get into it
Scouts will be the same
New GM will bring their own scouts. Scouts will get cleaned out after the draft.
Yeah, looks like the GM has that power to make changes how he sees fit. So no ones job is safe is the way I am reading this.
Marc Ross arguably deserved the ax more than anyone Â
The GM holds the ultimate responsibility, but the scouting director has the greatest impact on a draft because few teams deviate much from their boards after the first round or two. Look at the difference between 2003-07, when Reese ran the draft, and 2008-on when Ross ran the draft. Night and day.
RE: Marc Ross arguably deserved the ax more than anyone Â
The GM holds the ultimate responsibility, but the scouting director has the greatest impact on a draft because few teams deviate much from their boards after the first round or two. Look at the difference between 2003-07, when Reese ran the draft, and 2008-on when Ross ran the draft. Night and day.
No doubt about that. The new GM has to bring in some of his personnel guys
WTF is that about. He pushed the incompetent Reese on us as GM and tried to stop the Coughlin hire. History repeats itself. Have the balls to finish the job Mara/ Tisch. Screw Accorsi. MO
RE: Marc Ross arguably deserved the ax more than anyone Â
The GM holds the ultimate responsibility, but the scouting director has the greatest impact on a draft because few teams deviate much from their boards after the first round or two. Look at the difference between 2003-07, when Reese ran the draft, and 2008-on when Ross ran the draft. Night and day.
+ I have long thought Reese was Ross' #1 protector as draft after draft went down hill since he arrived (from Bills?).
I assume GM/Ownership will rely on the ongoing work and then formulate their own plan on how to use those notes. Let them go after the draft to start the new scouting year.
about allowing a GM/Coach situation, that is an extremely significant move. Essentially, that breaks down the structure that has been in place since 1979 when George Young helped pull the Giants out of their mess when Pete Rozelle and the NFL had to get involved to save the Maras from themselves. You are talking about a structure that has led to 5 Super Bowls (4 wins) and 3 GMs in nearly 40 years.
And also, if that's the case and they want to get a GM in first, and before the year is out, and this is even a thought, that really means you are talking about a currently retired coach (Cowher or Chuckie) or a college guy like a Saban.
I really hope the Giants do not do this and keep with what works, just put better people in place to execute.
There’s lots of work that needs to be done between now and hiring of a new GM. There’s a 1000 bowl games to watch not to mention all-star games. That’s all intellectually property of the Giants and will be passed along to the new GM and staff.
I honestly would almost rather keep Jerry Reese than Marc Ross. If Ross is staying here, that's very disappointing.
What I'd really want (that could never happen, obviously) is for Reese to replace Ross. Say what you will about Reese, but he did quite well as scouting director.
RE: You can’t fire Ross and the scouts right now Â
There’s lots of work that needs to be done between now and hiring of a new GM. There’s a 1000 bowl games to watch not to mention all-star games. That’s all intellectually property of the Giants and will be passed along to the new GM and staff.
Graziano:
Even if Ross is out, that move likely waits until after the draft. New GMs typically keep scouting staffs in place until post-draft. Otherwise you're throwing out a ton of legwork, and you're behind on your evaluations.
is that they don't sound strongly wed to OBJ continuing to play for this team. Maybe I am misinterpreting?
Eh....maybe I'm being too charitable to John Mara, but I read that as a proper amount of deference to the future GM. If Mara makes a strong definitive statement on OBJ's future, that kind of kneecaps the GM, no? I want them to keep OBJ but that should be the GM's call.
His presser was pretty disingenuous regarding Eli not being a factor Â
But... but... but... everyone said that McAdoo went against what Mara approved!
It's amazing how people were incapable of reading between the lines on that all of last week.
There was a question who was telling the truth. Turns out it was McAdoo. Mara explained he hoped Eli would be playing so well it would be impossible to take him out.
Guess you never heard of diplomacy? He can't shit on Reese and McAdoo and ruin any chance they will get another job. He has to let them down slowly. What candidate would come here knowing the owner will crap on them at the drop of a hat.
Of course it was the Eli thing that was the end of the end. He can say there was no straw that broke the camel's back, but he knows we know, but he isn't saying it publicly.
is that they don't sound strongly wed to OBJ continuing to play for this team. Maybe I am misinterpreting?
Eh....maybe I'm being too charitable to John Mara, but I read that as a proper amount of deference to the future GM. If Mara makes a strong definitive statement on OBJ's future, that kind of kneecaps the GM, no? I want them to keep OBJ but that should be the GM's call.
I guess I'm wondering why it would even be a question.
I honestly would almost rather keep Jerry Reese than Marc Ross. If Ross is staying here, that's very disappointing.
What I'd really want (that could never happen, obviously) is for Reese to replace Ross. Say what you will about Reese, but he did quite well as scouting director.
I've always thought highly of Reese as a scout - though he does have his warts. I'd love to have his input on certain positions, particularly WR - obviously not realistic, but he did have some redeeming qualities.
But... but... but... everyone said that McAdoo went against what Mara approved!
It's amazing how people were incapable of reading between the lines on that all of last week.
There was a question who was telling the truth. Turns out it was McAdoo. Mara explained he hoped Eli would be playing so well it would be impossible to take him out.
It's nigh impossible to reconcile that on one hand you're replacing him at half-time and, one the other, that you hope you wouldn't take him out.
I threw an Odell trade idea out there as a joke the other day.... Â
San Fran finishes in the #2 spot and we trade Odell straight up for that pick. They have Garoppolo and Beckham to build their team around (and a ton of cap space to pay both), and we have the #2 AND #3 pick.
Perfect storm situation
Won 11 games last year, thought OL group would take a step forward
Offense wasn’t good last year, but thought they’d be better with additions at WR/TE
Defense unchanged, haven’t played as well
Not afraid to hire a young HC
Owners have final say on HC but decision will largely be made by new GM
Have names in mind but won’t get into it
Scouts will be the same
New GM will bring their own scouts. Scouts will get cleaned out after the draft.
You don’t know this. What we do know is that it is business as usual for Ross and the scouts for the time being.
Will there be change under a new GM? Maybe. When will that change occur? Probably after the draft if at all.
San Fran finishes in the #2 spot and we trade Odell straight up for that pick. They have Garoppolo and Beckham to build their team around (and a ton of cap space to pay both), and we have the #2 AND #3 pick.
But who knows what kind of deal someone else might make for him? I've always been of the belief that no one is really off-limits. I doubt there's a team that would be willing to pay a price high enough to make me want to deal OBJ, but you never know.
You have to be open to anything - if a team said they were interested, I'd be willing to listen. But it would take a hell of an offer for me to pull the trigger.
Ross survived today
Sneakers O'toole : 2:23 pm : link : reply
Doesn't mean the new GM keepd him around.
I agree new GM may and most likely will want a hand in on scouts and evaluation I am sure there are a few good scouts that who the hell knows maybe they find good players and get over ruled anybody's guess
LMAO. bro you are the biggest hater ive ever seen post on this board. OBJ has proven he is a STUD and easily a top 5 WR in football...he is probably the most dangerous player with the ball in his hands in the NFL...you telling me san fran can draft that at #2?
I wouldnt do it, but dont act like san fran would def not
about allowing a GM/Coach situation, that is an extremely significant move. Essentially, that breaks down the structure that has been in place since 1979 when George Young helped pull the Giants out of their mess when Pete Rozelle and the NFL had to get involved to save the Maras from themselves. You are talking about a structure that has led to 5 Super Bowls (4 wins) and 3 GMs in nearly 40 years.
And also, if that's the case and they want to get a GM in first, and before the year is out, and this is even a thought, that really means you are talking about a currently retired coach (Cowher or Chuckie) or a college guy like a Saban.
I really hope the Giants do not do this and keep with what works, just put better people in place to execute.
The structure was a strong GM so the owners could not meddle in football personnel and football matters. It had nothing to do with dual roles as coach/GM. I don't see where there is any commitment to stop meddling.
RE: RE: Beckham is not worth the #2 pick overall Â
LMAO. bro you are the biggest hater ive ever seen post on this board. OBJ has proven he is a STUD and easily a top 5 WR in football...he is probably the most dangerous player with the ball in his hands in the NFL...you telling me san fran can draft that at #2?
I wouldnt do it, but dont act like san fran would def not
They wouldn't. The guy is coming off an injury and is in a contract year. His value right now is the lowest it's been since he's been a Giant. That's just the truth.
If we traded the second overall pick for an injured guy a year away from free agency this board would melt down.
We don't know what kind of player he is post surgery recovering from a serious ankle injury requiring an external fixation. As historically good as he's been in his first 3 years, if I'm a GM I'd be thinking long and hard about what his real value is moving forward. They've already gambled with an onerous contract to a physically compromised JPP and have a good frame of reference to giving a troubled/injured star receiver a max contract with Dez Bryant.
It is amazing to me the way some people perceive resources and their value.
A wide receiver coming off a season lost to a lower body injury and is at the doorstep of an enormous contract is not netting a high first round draft pick in trade...at least not from a competent organization. That's just not how the league works. I wonder what some people have been watching.
It is amazing to me the way some people perceive resources and their value.
A wide receiver coming off a season lost to a lower body injury and is at the doorstep of an enormous contract is not netting a high first round draft pick in trade...at least not from a competent organization. That's just not how the league works. I wonder what some people have been watching.
Your rationale for why no one would currently make that deal is sound (contract coming up, injury status unknown). However, I suspect your often stated negative opinion of Beckham is keeping people from really reading what you wrote.
Has Spags, Reese or McAdoo given any public statement yet? Â
also understand they will still be getting paid from giants for some time to come, so i don't think they will have much to say other than what we already know.
It is amazing to me the way some people perceive resources and their value.
A wide receiver coming off a season lost to a lower body injury and is at the doorstep of an enormous contract is not netting a high first round draft pick in trade...at least not from a competent organization. That's just not how the league works. I wonder what some people have been watching.
Your rationale for why no one would currently make that deal is sound (contract coming up, injury status unknown). However, I suspect your often stated negative opinion of Beckham is keeping people from really reading what you wrote.
I agree with your point Terps but this is accurate as well.
I think Frnacesa just put it perfectly. Said they need to put it to Â
WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!
Won 11 games last year, thought OL group would take a step forward
Offense wasn’t good last year, but thought they’d be better with additions at WR/TE
Defense unchanged, haven’t played as well
Not afraid to hire a young HC
Owners have final say on HC but decision will largely be made by new GM
Have names in mind but won’t get into it
Scouts will be the same
New GM will bring their own scouts. Scouts will get cleaned out after the draft.
At 66, I don't know if Saban wants to start all over again.
Quote:
Perfect storm situation
Won 11 games last year, thought OL group would take a step forward
Offense wasn’t good last year, but thought they’d be better with additions at WR/TE
Defense unchanged, haven’t played as well
Not afraid to hire a young HC
Owners have final say on HC but decision will largely be made by new GM
Have names in mind but won’t get into it
Scouts will be the same
New GM will bring their own scouts. Scouts will get cleaned out after the draft.
Yeah, looks like the GM has that power to make changes how he sees fit. So no ones job is safe is the way I am reading this.
No doubt about that. The new GM has to bring in some of his personnel guys
Makes no sense whatsoever.
fuck that. I don't like that at all. any serous GM candidate would have to be working on the draft on his own already.
John sounding like Wellington in late 78 early 79 before the Rozelle meeting intorducing George Young.
Yes. Probably only temporary. I hope.
And also, if that's the case and they want to get a GM in first, and before the year is out, and this is even a thought, that really means you are talking about a currently retired coach (Cowher or Chuckie) or a college guy like a Saban.
I really hope the Giants do not do this and keep with what works, just put better people in place to execute.
So new GM gets to fire Chris Mara?
What I'd really want (that could never happen, obviously) is for Reese to replace Ross. Say what you will about Reese, but he did quite well as scouting director.
Graziano:
Even if Ross is out, that move likely waits until after the draft. New GMs typically keep scouting staffs in place until post-draft. Otherwise you're throwing out a ton of legwork, and you're behind on your evaluations.
Eh....maybe I'm being too charitable to John Mara, but I read that as a proper amount of deference to the future GM. If Mara makes a strong definitive statement on OBJ's future, that kind of kneecaps the GM, no? I want them to keep OBJ but that should be the GM's call.
Quote:
But Mara thought there would be some flexibility.
But... but... but... everyone said that McAdoo went against what Mara approved!
It's amazing how people were incapable of reading between the lines on that all of last week.
There was a question who was telling the truth. Turns out it was McAdoo. Mara explained he hoped Eli would be playing so well it would be impossible to take him out.
Guess you never heard of diplomacy? He can't shit on Reese and McAdoo and ruin any chance they will get another job. He has to let them down slowly. What candidate would come here knowing the owner will crap on them at the drop of a hat.
Of course it was the Eli thing that was the end of the end. He can say there was no straw that broke the camel's back, but he knows we know, but he isn't saying it publicly.
Quote:
is that they don't sound strongly wed to OBJ continuing to play for this team. Maybe I am misinterpreting?
Eh....maybe I'm being too charitable to John Mara, but I read that as a proper amount of deference to the future GM. If Mara makes a strong definitive statement on OBJ's future, that kind of kneecaps the GM, no? I want them to keep OBJ but that should be the GM's call.
Quote:
I honestly would almost rather keep Jerry Reese than Marc Ross. If Ross is staying here, that's very disappointing.
What I'd really want (that could never happen, obviously) is for Reese to replace Ross. Say what you will about Reese, but he did quite well as scouting director.
I've always thought highly of Reese as a scout - though he does have his warts. I'd love to have his input on certain positions, particularly WR - obviously not realistic, but he did have some redeeming qualities.
Marc Ross can't be gone soon enough.
Quote:
In comment 13723678 Watson said:
Quote:
But Mara thought there would be some flexibility.
But... but... but... everyone said that McAdoo went against what Mara approved!
It's amazing how people were incapable of reading between the lines on that all of last week.
There was a question who was telling the truth. Turns out it was McAdoo. Mara explained he hoped Eli would be playing so well it would be impossible to take him out.
Quote:
Perfect storm situation
Won 11 games last year, thought OL group would take a step forward
Offense wasn’t good last year, but thought they’d be better with additions at WR/TE
Defense unchanged, haven’t played as well
Not afraid to hire a young HC
Owners have final say on HC but decision will largely be made by new GM
Have names in mind but won’t get into it
Scouts will be the same
New GM will bring their own scouts. Scouts will get cleaned out after the draft.
You don’t know this. What we do know is that it is business as usual for Ross and the scouts for the time being.
Will there be change under a new GM? Maybe. When will that change occur? Probably after the draft if at all.
Sneakers O'toole : 2:23 pm : link : reply
Doesn't mean the new GM keepd him around.
I agree new GM may and most likely will want a hand in on scouts and evaluation I am sure there are a few good scouts that who the hell knows maybe they find good players and get over ruled anybody's guess
LMAO. bro you are the biggest hater ive ever seen post on this board. OBJ has proven he is a STUD and easily a top 5 WR in football...he is probably the most dangerous player with the ball in his hands in the NFL...you telling me san fran can draft that at #2?
I wouldnt do it, but dont act like san fran would def not
And also, if that's the case and they want to get a GM in first, and before the year is out, and this is even a thought, that really means you are talking about a currently retired coach (Cowher or Chuckie) or a college guy like a Saban.
I really hope the Giants do not do this and keep with what works, just put better people in place to execute.
Quote:
That's a pipe dream.
LMAO. bro you are the biggest hater ive ever seen post on this board. OBJ has proven he is a STUD and easily a top 5 WR in football...he is probably the most dangerous player with the ball in his hands in the NFL...you telling me san fran can draft that at #2?
I wouldnt do it, but dont act like san fran would def not
They wouldn't. The guy is coming off an injury and is in a contract year. His value right now is the lowest it's been since he's been a Giant. That's just the truth.
If we traded the second overall pick for an injured guy a year away from free agency this board would melt down.
He's worth way more. Who are you taking at #2 who is better than Beckham? James Washington? Courtland Sutton? Oh, please.
A wide receiver coming off a season lost to a lower body injury and is at the doorstep of an enormous contract is not netting a high first round draft pick in trade...at least not from a competent organization. That's just not how the league works. I wonder what some people have been watching.
A wide receiver coming off a season lost to a lower body injury and is at the doorstep of an enormous contract is not netting a high first round draft pick in trade...at least not from a competent organization. That's just not how the league works. I wonder what some people have been watching.
Your rationale for why no one would currently make that deal is sound (contract coming up, injury status unknown). However, I suspect your often stated negative opinion of Beckham is keeping people from really reading what you wrote.
also understand they will still be getting paid from giants for some time to come, so i don't think they will have much to say other than what we already know.
Quote:
It is amazing to me the way some people perceive resources and their value.
A wide receiver coming off a season lost to a lower body injury and is at the doorstep of an enormous contract is not netting a high first round draft pick in trade...at least not from a competent organization. That's just not how the league works. I wonder what some people have been watching.
Your rationale for why no one would currently make that deal is sound (contract coming up, injury status unknown). However, I suspect your often stated negative opinion of Beckham is keeping people from really reading what you wrote.
I agree with your point Terps but this is accurate as well.
I agree.