This is a weird spot to be in as a fan. I fully expect Eli to start Sunday, and there are 3 home divisional games remaining. There are no reprieves for Reese & McAdoo. John Mara admitted that wholesale changes were needed.
With Eli likely starting on Sunday & the crowd giving him a standing ovation, am I going to sit there and root for a loss? No way.
I understand the importance of a high draft pick & won’t be upset with a loss, BUT I can’t sit here and root against the Giants for a month. Where do you all stand on this?
...play well, play hard but lose 'em all.
Remaining Games Rooting Interest. - ( New Window )
All I'm saying... Go Giants... Let the chips fall where they may... I agree with Sean.
I think this is well said & how I feel.
If they're bad, it won't matter if Darnold is the reincarnation of Otto Graham - the team will ruin him.
One draft pick isn't going to make or break this team. Play to win and get a better culture installed.
We're just too messed up; given the emotional last 2 weeks....lots of new guys who either only knew Mc as HC whether for 2 years or in some cases 2 days off the PS or the street...Sullivan as OC plus likely a new interim DC...with the OL likely having Hart back at RT this week.
As much as I hated the useless benching I think Ben's lie about Webb for the last 2-3 games was a good idea. I'd like to see Webb against AZ and Skins to evaluate him going forward in Ben's or any other O scheme. Then whatever Eli and management decides for for next year a Webb evaluation will be in the files given draft day 2018.
Me, L. T. Was second pick in the draft. The two extra wins the Giants might have gotten at the end of 1980 that would have dropped them to A third of fourth pick, seem kind of irrevelavant in hindsight, although probably at the time if you were rooting for them to win it seemed like a good thing.
Nothing is gained from winning any more games this season. It's objectively not in their best interest.
It's not a guarantee. It's also vitally important that you try.
Nothing is gained from winning any more games this season. It's objectively not in their best interest.
preach!
This franchise has a chance to do something that could change it's course for the next decade-plus. Beating the Cowboys doesn't matter. We don't have Eli Manning if the 2003 team won more games for "pride".
This franchise has a chance to do something that could change it's course for the next decade-plus. Beating the Cowboys doesn't matter. We don't have Eli Manning if the 2003 team won more games for "pride".
I agree, it’s just a weird spot for the fans with Eli back under center.
I get it - when the Giants are on the field, especially against Dallas, you can't help but pull for them. But in the grand scheme of things, a win here isn't important.
Remember how much of a franchise-altering draft pick Eli was.
That's what's at stake here.
Go full out and then take the draft position you deserve. (Someone once said you are what your record says you are.)
For the owners this is a business, but for many long time fans like me, it is still a sport; and a sport should have integrity.
I say win all the games you can. Help this team build some confidence. Teach these players how to fight through adversity and get a good taste in their mouth to come back next season with. Get some good evaluations of your roster on film for the new HC and GM.
If you're so in love with a player at the top of the draft go up and get him like so many other teams have done. Otherwise see what the new leadership can do with the guys we have.
You don't win in this league without talent, and they lack it. Rooting for draft position isn't how loser franchises are built. Messing up the draft is how loser franchises are built. This team wouldn't have accomplished what it has without Eli Manning. You don't get that kind of guy without some pain and adversity. The reward for it is worth it.
You don't win in this league without talent, and they lack it. Rooting for draft position isn't how loser franchises are built. Messing up the draft is how loser franchises are built. This team wouldn't have accomplished what it has without Eli Manning. You don't get that kind of guy without some pain and adversity. The reward for it is worth it.
All due respect TTH, and I know you're a good poster here, but I really do disagree with you here. If there is a real talent at the top of the draft you make the moves to get him.
How did Philly get Wentz last year? Did they tank the season? They were 7-9 the year before. They wanted Wentz and they made it happen.
What you have to do is build a winning culture and have guys who play to win every snap of every game. The Giants would gain more by winning out at 6-10 than by losing out 2-14 as the team would have something to build on.
I'm not saying that 6-10 is likely, but you have to root for it because if it COULD happen then you should want it to. Since it probably won't you can be happy with the draft pick you end up with.
That said, I'd rather they didn't have to, so I'll continue to feel that losing is beneficial in the long run.
If the Giants have a huge conviction in getting Darnold, they'll move up and get him. But if Eli is going to be the quarterback next year I think they're better off sitting tight and taking the best player, or trading down.
Building a team through the draft is about drafting wisely over a period of years and establishing a pipeline...it's almost never about saving a franchise with a single pick. If it were, Luck, Stafford, Bradford, Winston, Newton, Alex Smith, Carson Palmer, etc. would be champions already.
I also don't believe in drafting a quarterback to have him sit behind a veteran. If the thinking is to get Darnold at all costs we should trade or release Eli. Darnold isn't going to get any better sitting on a bench. Let him take his lumps learning on the field, like Eli did and should have from day one in 2004. If that's too much for Darnold to handle, he probably isn't the guy we need anyway.
Win these last four games.
Hogwash.
If the Giants have a huge conviction in getting Darnold, they'll move up and get him. But if Eli is going to be the quarterback next year I think they're better off sitting tight and taking the best player, or trading down.
Building a team through the draft is about drafting wisely over a period of years and establishing a pipeline...it's almost never about saving a franchise with a single pick. If it were, Luck, Stafford, Bradford, Winston, Newton, Alex Smith, Carson Palmer, etc. would be champions already.
I also don't believe in drafting a quarterback to have him sit behind a veteran. If the thinking is to get Darnold at all costs we should trade or release Eli. Darnold isn't going to get any better sitting on a bench. Let him take his lumps learning on the field, like Eli did and should have from day one in 2004. If that's too much for Darnold to handle, he probably isn't the guy we need anyway.
Win these last four games.
In the past I’ve read you have felt this was a total teardown, but it seems you have been warming up to keeping Eli for 2-3 years and developing a strong running game.
Quote:
Still prefer they lose these games. I understand getting caught up in the moment and not wanting to root against the Giants or Eli - I'm not going to sit there and actively root for Dallas (or any other team we face), but it's still better for us and better for the franchise if the Giants continue to lose out.
I think this is well said & how I feel.
Ditto. Well said by Arcar
However, when it's a QB you need, every single spot matters.
You're basically asking me if I'd prefer to have the satisfaction of beating the Dallas Cowboys or Philadelphia Eagles at the cost of potentially needing to deal away assets to move up and get our guy in the draft when simply losing these games could prevent that altogether.
Most of these coaches probably won't be here next year. A handful of these players won't be, either.
Winning these games doesn't accomplish anything. There's no carryover.
Quote:
magical thing.
You don't win in this league without talent, and they lack it. Rooting for draft position isn't how loser franchises are built. Messing up the draft is how loser franchises are built. This team wouldn't have accomplished what it has without Eli Manning. You don't get that kind of guy without some pain and adversity. The reward for it is worth it.
All due respect TTH, and I know you're a good poster here, but I really do disagree with you here. If there is a real talent at the top of the draft you make the moves to get him.
How did Philly get Wentz last year? Did they tank the season? They were 7-9 the year before. They wanted Wentz and they made it happen.
What you have to do is build a winning culture and have guys who play to win every snap of every game. The Giants would gain more by winning out at 6-10 than by losing out 2-14 as the team would have something to build on.
I'm not saying that 6-10 is likely, but you have to root for it because if it COULD happen then you should want it to. Since it probably won't you can be happy with the draft pick you end up with.
Wentz was big time gamble on a player who was either underscouted by the sport or undervalued. He doesn't fit the profile of your typical top of the draft quarterback. Played at a nowhere school and nobody was really looking for him. If Howie Roseman himself told me he knew what he was getting I'd call BS.
You can build a winning culture and also not subtract from the best road to adding talent, but you can't build a winning culture without first putting together the elements needed to compete. I don't see the wisdom in forsaking the most powerful tool a person building a team can hold for a shortsighted emotional lift.
Wentz was big time gamble on a player who was either underscouted by the sport or undervalued. He doesn't fit the profile of your typical top of the draft quarterback. Played at a nowhere school and nobody was really looking for him. If Howie Roseman himself told me he knew what he was getting I'd call BS.
You can build a winning culture and also not subtract from the best road to adding talent, but you can't build a winning culture without first putting together the elements needed to compete. I don't see the wisdom in forsaking the most powerful tool a person building a team can hold for a shortsighted emotional lift.
My point was that you if Philly can win 7 games and still move up to the #2 spot in the draft you don't have to try to tank in the hopes you get the player you want. I say if you really want them, you get them, like Accorsi did with Eli and like Philly did with Wentz.
Meanwhile, you don't want anyone developing a mindset of performing without really trying to win. Once that mindset is introduced to the players you might have a tough time getting all 53 back on board.