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What were McAdoo's fatal flaws?

Reale01 : 12/4/2017 8:12 pm
I think in the end he was too arrogant. He refused change. He refused to see the problem with his offense and if you read between the lines seemed to blame Eli for the failure. Nothing was a poor plan, it was always poor execution. Sure he sometimes said "put it on me" but it was obvious that he did not believe it.

He got lucky and was able to win with a great defense and no offense last year. Even in the playoff game he seemed to think that once we had the lead we no longer needed to be aggressive.

He decided the o-line from last year would get the job done, because he thought his offensive scheme was good enough to overcome it. He never gave some of the newer pick-ups (like Fluker) a chance to play in pre-season. He insisted in staying with the 11 personnel whatever the cost. He would not give up play calling and acknowledge that there might be a better way. He defended players who played badly (o-line, LBs) and hung players like Eli out to dry.

Our heavy handed team did not play complementary football, couldn't execute, failed to protect the Duke, needed more discipline, needed to improve consistency and to adhere to sound fundamental football principles. We practiced well, we were well prepared, what else could the coaches do? None of that was HIS fault.

He seemed to feel vindicated when management allowed him to bench Eli. Clueless to the end.

Also - and slightly off topic. Why would you bench Eli to play Geno. Geno is on a 1 year contract, if he plays well he costs more - or leaves. If he looked that good in practice then why would you ever want to show the rest of the league?
.  
skifaster : 12/4/2017 8:14 pm : link
Heavy-handed communication skills
Offense  
Sarcastic Sam : 12/4/2017 8:14 pm : link
Defense
and Special Teams

Also, holding on to the Duke.
Over reliance on his VCR  
The_Boss : 12/4/2017 8:15 pm : link
-
His hair  
Blue Moon : 12/4/2017 8:16 pm : link
was perfect.
Over inflated  
Reb8thVA : 12/4/2017 8:16 pm : link
Sense of self importance, stubbornness, poor communication and personal skills.
Good question, hard to answer briefly  
mfsd : 12/4/2017 8:18 pm : link
But I got the feeling he came in a lot more arrogant in year 2 after making the playoffs in year 1. Instead of working to correct the still obvious offensive flaws after last year, he got even more stubborn.

He did give up play calling mid season...but there seemed to be zero adjustments or creativity to adapt after defenses had clearly gone to school on how to stop his basic scheme.

I mean, everyone watching knew we really wanted to throw quick slants...once teams started sitting LBs in those passing lanes, we had no answer.

Who knows what was really going on in the locker room, but there was enough smoke to assume the fire was real.

His handling of the Eli debacle was just another symptom of his fatal stubbornness/arrogance
You said it in your first sentence.  
johnnyb : 12/4/2017 8:22 pm : link
Arogant
**Arrogant  
johnnyb : 12/4/2017 8:23 pm : link
.
Arrogance.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/4/2017 8:24 pm : link
He reeked of it. It was really off putting. You can get away with surly behavior if you're Belichick & got 5 rings. It's different if you're Ben McAdoo & have won nothing.
Simple  
Gman11 : 12/4/2017 8:25 pm : link
It was the Peter Principle at work. A QB coach to offensive coordinator to head coach. He just wasn't qualified to be a head coach. He doesn't have the people skills. He doesn't have an imaginative bone in his body. It's like he had his ideas of how the offense was supposed to work and when it didn't he didn't know what else to do.
McAdoo's failures  
djstat : 12/4/2017 8:25 pm : link
1. He was born (Joking)

2. No legitimate offensive system.

3. Tried to act like Parcels


I think it is easier to list his strengths  
SLIM_ : 12/4/2017 8:27 pm : link
He arrived in NJ the same time that Beckham did. You can also add that Coughlin still had a significant hand in designing/running the offense.

As a successful head coach, he was completely reliant on an outstanding defense and Beckham. With the defense underachieving this year (it sounds partly due to his influence) and Beckham hurt, he oversaw a historically bad offense/team.
his offensive  
japanhead : 12/4/2017 8:27 pm : link
system
He took pretty much  
Matt in SGS : 12/4/2017 8:28 pm : link
every bad quality that Ray Handley had and pretty much put them on display one after another, one at a time.

-From his inability to manage a full team as a head coach instead of seeing himself as an offensive coordinator +
- To mishandling a QB controversy of his own creation
- To losing the defensive players who ultimately revolted against him
- To then botching his interaction with the press and all that leads to losing the fans.
- Even the part where he said that professional players should motivate themselves, its not on the coach...pure Handley.

There is even more there, but it's shocking how some of the warning signs were there in the 11-5 season, but they all pretty much blew up in his face in rapid succession this year. I really believe the opening loss to Dallas, when the offense looked asleep and awful, it was an "Emperor has No Clothes" moment that the Giants didn't fix anything with their offense all offseason and they were hoping for the best and the defense would win again.

Awful.
Inflexibility  
an_idol_mind : 12/4/2017 8:30 pm : link
and poor communication.
Early on I thought his biggest strength was game management  
Go Terps : 12/4/2017 8:32 pm : link
The 2016 team was a 6-10 team that got every juice out of the orange in winning 11 games. If you look back at the schedule, something like 9 of the 11 wins came in the very last possession...often with the opposing offense simply running out of time.

While that was a great quality to display in his rookie season, I wonder how much self-scouting he did in the offseason to recognize and address his weaknesses.
I think you nailed most of them  
joeinpa : 12/4/2017 8:33 pm : link
Stubbornness seems to jump out
His fatal flaws?  
Mark C : 12/4/2017 8:35 pm : link
We'll have to take a look at the tape, and then put our heads together...
Do you guys remember when he was cagey ...  
DonQuixote : 12/4/2017 8:42 pm : link
... about who would call the plays?

To me it seemed like a kid in a man's game. Can you really imagine other NFL: teams hampered by not knowing if Ben MacAdoo is callibng the plays?
Extreme inconsistency with how he dealt with the players  
montanagiant : 12/4/2017 8:45 pm : link
Holding some accountable others, not at all and placing unwarrented blame
One of McAdoo's first sentences when he got on the podium  
NyquistX3 : 12/4/2017 8:52 pm : link
last night was something along the lines of, "we played hard, we have to execute better".

That's basically code for "I am motivating the team to play hard, I am giving them a winning gameplan, the players aren't winning". It was startling. He basically assumed no blame for the loss and passed it off to everyone else.
Tone deaf. And cold.  
Poktown Pete : 12/4/2017 8:53 pm : link
Nice write up, Reale01.

I still have the image in my mind of Beckham on the ground in agony and Ben couldn't care less. He was too busy selecting the next play from his Chinese menu.
Impossible for me to know  
trueblueinpw : 12/4/2017 8:53 pm : link
But he seemed down right hostile to the media and I think that’s always a bad sign as they’re a part of the job. Probably the worst thing for McAdoo was his early success. He was fortunate to have OBJ as a rookie the his first year as O-co and he had a top flite defense playing mostly backup QBs last year. Last years record and OBJ probably made Ben think he was more better than more lucky. Once things started to slide this year they just kept getting worse and I think that was the surest sign of his lack of ability and charecter.

A lot of people said he was good at Xs and Os but a poor communicator. I never thought he was an Xs and Os guy because his offense was laughable. He got a lot of credit for “fixing” Eli and the offense when he became O-Co but I firmly believe that had everything to do with OBJ coming to the team and zero to do with McAdoo. In the end, I just don’t think he was very good at anything.
It was almost like he read a book on how to be a HC  
Vanzetti : 12/4/2017 9:00 pm : link
and was trying to do everything it said: look strong, look in control, act tough

But that is just not his personality. He came off as awkward, robotic and stubborn because he was trying to be something he is not: a HC
He went all in with Geno  
bradshaw44 : 12/4/2017 9:08 pm : link
He really believed that all he needed was a younger more mobile QB and his system would thrive. He was banking on Geno lighting up Oakland so he could look at Mara and say, I told you it was Eli and not me. And that’s why he didn’t dress Webb and went with Geno. Problem is, it’s him and not anyone else.

And this goes back to what you said, arrogance.
2 things  
Aaroninma : 12/4/2017 9:14 pm : link
1. "Smartest Guy in The Room" disease. Others have hit on it. Way too stubborn

2. Completely unimaginative offense. Very plain, way behind the league.
Fatal flaw  
Dragon : 12/4/2017 9:17 pm : link
Taking the HC position of the Giants with a front office without any honor.
RE: The Geno Play  
Diver_Down : 12/4/2017 9:25 pm : link
IMO, it was his final Hail Mary. It wasn't about evaluating players on the roster. It was about providing proof to management that Eli was holding back his offense. Despite his arrogance and stubborness, he had to realize that he would have to make a case to retain his job. Even before the injuries, we were 0-5. The injuries would have been a legitimate excuse, but the losses kept piling up with an ineffective offense. He certainly couldn't make the case to management until the losses were so great that we had been mathematically eliminated. It was revealed that Reese and Ben had discussed the idea of seeing the other QBs play a couple weeks before it was discussed with Mara. By proposing an offer that he knew Eli would refuse, he was set for his Hail Mary against a bad Raiders defense. If Geno had overcame the offensive talent limitations around him and efficiently executed Ben's offense, then he would have had his evidence in making the case to save his job that it was Eli.
I honestly think he was just monumentally awful  
djm : 12/4/2017 9:42 pm : link
In nearly every way possible. I'm sure Ben has some legit coaching qualities and can fill a role doing something somewhere, but he's an awful head coach in every way possible. In my view his communication skills and overall viewpoint seals the deal. Someone said here that mcadoo didn't build any relationships he only tore them down. Just awful.
too much hair gel  
Les in TO : 12/4/2017 9:47 pm : link
Too much of a read and react offense in one formation as opposed to showing varied looks/formations and attacking. I'd call it the Rod Rust or Perry Fewell offensive system.
.....  
Route 9 : 12/4/2017 9:55 pm : link
How about just him being hired as the head coach? I hated the decision from day one. To be honest, I thought it was just boring because I expected a big name to come in to take over for Tom and Ben to remain at OC. He obviously was in way over his head, if he didn't think so, he was wrong. If he knew deep down he was, he did a bad job at hiding it. Why would some two year coach with a bad offense and nothing to his name have that look on his face all the time? Usually arrogant people are read as insecure and (in NYC and NJ where people will see through your bullshit) if you act like that, you're going to be blasted by the media and fans. He looked like a ridiculous cartoon character in South Park or something you'd see in a Will Ferrell movie.

I know he wasn't gonna say no to become a HC, of course not, and this was an ideal situation for him with a revamped defense prior to 2016 and everything going his way, he no longer had Coughlin over him and he could do (or not do) what he wanted with the team.

I think his look, his image, his haircut, wrong time...and very wrong place did him in. Of course, benching popular Eli and then LOSING with his savior Geno the same week. Yeah, I know...11-5 in 2016 but Eh. That defense was championship worthy but everything unfolded since Green Bay in 2017.

Glad he's gone. Thanks a lot Philly.
Simple  
burtmanjack : 12/4/2017 10:17 pm : link
Complementary suckage.
RE: Over inflated  
mrvax : 12/4/2017 10:18 pm : link
In comment 13724638 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
Sense of self importance, stubbornness, poor communication and personal skills.


This ^^^.

Also "The Duke" was f'ing stupid. His should call his pud, the Duke.

Plus playing the wrong guys and wrong positions on Oline sucked.
Who knows?  
CT Charlie : 12/4/2017 10:32 pm : link
The players know, and we'll hear sooner or later. His youth didn't help much -- he's actually younger than Peyton Manning, which makes the job of leading an iconic NFL team a massive challenge. I think, as others have said, that he tried a little too hard to act the part, whereas he might have had more success being himself, delegating more to the older, more experienced coaches, and letting players adjust to the "real" McAdoo, an earnest guy from small-town Pennsylvania.

Not having Aaron Rogers at QB was another shortcoming.
RE: It was almost like he read a book on how to be a HC  
GiantTuff1 : 12/4/2017 10:47 pm : link
In comment 13724717 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
and was trying to do everything it said: look strong, look in control, act tough

But that is just not his personality. He came off as awkward, robotic and stubborn because he was trying to be something he is not: a HC


I think there is a lot of truth in this...

Even down to the haircut. Seems like he tried to act like a Head Coach, because he was uncomfortable in himself or incapable of BEING one. As soon as people sense an insecurity in you, like you don't know what you should even look like... if you can't even figure out yourself, how is your team supposed to respect and be confident in you if you display a teenage identity problem as a 39 year old HC?

Or if Mara or someone told him his hair needs to be styled neater since he's now HC, shame on them... if that's the case then him allowing the cutting off of his balls is obvious to a whole team who might then suddenly lose respect for him as a man... and not that he was a leader of men anyway.
RE: He took pretty much  
clatterbuck : 12/4/2017 11:12 pm : link
In comment 13724664 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
every bad quality that Ray Handley had and pretty much put them on display one after another, one at a time.

-From his inability to manage a full team as a head coach instead of seeing himself as an offensive coordinator +
- To mishandling a QB controversy of his own creation
- To losing the defensive players who ultimately revolted against him
- To then botching his interaction with the press and all that leads to losing the fans.
- Even the part where he said that professional players should motivate themselves, its not on the coach...pure Handley.

There is even more there, but it's shocking how some of the warning signs were there in the 11-5 season, but they all pretty much blew up in his face in rapid succession this year. I really believe the opening loss to Dallas, when the offense looked asleep and awful, it was an "Emperor has No Clothes" moment that the Giants didn't fix anything with their offense all offseason and they were hoping for the best and the defense would win again.

Awful.


Nice summary. I'd add failure to understand Aaron Rodgers was not the Giants quarterback.
His insistence  
old man : 12/4/2017 11:44 pm : link
on imitating Mike McCarthy with even less flexibility and far less of the interpersonal skills.
Being handed a fustercluck of an OL helped destroy him...and his DC as well. Tom Quinn is the anchor that will weigh down any coach.
But bottom line...Ben McAdoo did in Ben McAdoo.
No doubt -- week 1 was an absolute killer  
djm : 12/4/2017 11:50 pm : link
I was all but covinced after week 1 we were in big trouble and I'm usually pretty hopeful. The entire team knew it too.
Communication and stubbornness  
Eric on Li : 12/4/2017 11:56 pm : link
The players all seemed to like him actually and they didn't quit, also they were competitive in a lot of games the past couple months they probably shouldn't have been. If he wasn't so stubborn with his gameplans and his communication with the media (highlighted by the Eli fiasco) he'd probably still be here.

Reese's roster construction was the bigger issue than Mcadoo in my opinion.
Strengths: in game management in 2016 was stellar  
markky : 12/5/2017 12:05 am : link
and a big part of the reason we won 11 games. the previous administration gave away about 3 games the previous season.

Weaknesses:
Stubborn. Did not design an offense around the players actually on the roster. He was dealt a very weak hand. But his job then was to find the best players or best combinations of players and start them. And change the scheme accordingly. He failed to do that. This is the biggest reason (next to weak team) that we've only won 2 games.

Self defeating weakness:
Arrogance and presence. His arrogance and the way he comports himself makes him radioactive. His presence makes me want to puke. He's really hurt himself here.
The real question for him moving forward may really be his strengths  
Matt M. : 12/5/2017 12:07 am : link
As OC, this team was excellent offensively in 2014 and 2015. He becomes HC and they are monumentally bad. The scheme and playcalling are different. The personnel and playcalling have been stubbornly the same for the better part of 2 seasons. So, it begs to ask, how much of 2014 and 2015 were the result of Coughlin still being around. Even if it isn't the case, I think the question is at least legit because most of the same staff and players were intact.

He has a lot to prove given that this was his first job not just as a HC, but an OC. He may have a lot of trouble getting another OC job immediately. He really may need to eat some humble pie and go back to being a position coach.
RE: Strengths: in game management in 2016 was stellar  
Matt M. : 12/5/2017 12:09 am : link
In comment 13724977 markky said:
Quote:
and a big part of the reason we won 11 games. the previous administration gave away about 3 games the previous season.

Weaknesses:
Stubborn. Did not design an offense around the players actually on the roster. He was dealt a very weak hand. But his job then was to find the best players or best combinations of players and start them. And change the scheme accordingly. He failed to do that. This is the biggest reason (next to weak team) that we've only won 2 games.

Self defeating weakness:
Arrogance and presence. His arrogance and the way he comports himself makes him radioactive. His presence makes me want to puke. He's really hurt himself here.
See, and I thought his game management last year was questionable. We left time for opposing teams, the D just held. Look at his track record on challenges, TOs, etc. He didn't manage games. He just got bailed out by a defense that played over its collective head.
Ugh  
greek13 : 12/5/2017 12:34 am : link
A pathetic offense for his two seasons! Or how about setting a world record
For shot gun draws? Arrogance with predictable sets, personnel and plays?
Most of all he damaged the brand. Reese was even worse!
2016 McAdoo was replaced by his  
SHO'NUFF : 12/5/2017 1:20 am : link
2016 McAdoo had regular hair, while 2017 has slicked back hair.

Offensive Scheme  
Eli2020 : 12/5/2017 9:51 am : link
was his ultimate downfall. He didn't know how to adjust to not having Superman as his QB.

That and he lacks social skills and possesses an ineptitude for understanding conflict and resolution.
Lack of imagination.  
Section331 : 12/5/2017 9:56 am : link
His playbook was the very definition of vanilla, and way too easy to prepare for.

Stubborness - he refused to acknowledge mistakes and make changes, other than benching the star QB.

Lack of communication - even though the first 2 were really bad, this is his real fatal flaw. He just didn't communicate well, with the players, with the media, or with the fans.
Arrogance  
Maximus, Esq. : 12/5/2017 10:00 am : link
I'm reminded of the scene in The Hunt for Red October, when the Soviet sub commander believes he has the upper hand and makes a risky fatal fuck-up when engaging Sean Connery. The second-in-command turns to him and says "you arrogant ass, you've killed us" milliseconds before they are blown to smithereens. I could see the coaches going to McAdoo, right after he conducts his press conference declaring he's benched Manning, saying the same thing.
RE: Arrogance  
Maximus, Esq. : 12/5/2017 10:04 am : link
In comment 13725422 Maximus, Esq. said:
Quote:
I'm reminded of the scene in The Hunt for Red October, when the Soviet sub commander believes he has the upper hand and makes a risky fatal fuck-up when engaging Sean Connery. The second-in-command turns to him and says "you arrogant ass, you've killed us" milliseconds before they are blown to smithereens. I could see the coaches going to McAdoo, right after he conducts his press conference declaring he's benched Manning, saying the same thing.


It was actually the American sub commander (played by Scott Glenn) who bested the Soviet. The look on the Soviet commander's face reminds me of McAdoo
Arrogant Ass - ( New Window )
RE: Over inflated  
Reale01 : 12/5/2017 12:38 pm : link
In comment 13724638 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
Sense of self importance, stubbornness, poor communication and personal skills.


Bingo. The hair is a good example. He should have thought I did OK last year, but still have a lot to learn and been humble. Instead he thought he was all that and clearly he was not.
RE: His fatal flaws?  
Reale01 : 12/5/2017 12:41 pm : link
In comment 13724676 Mark C said:
Quote:
We'll have to take a look at the tape, and then put our heads together...


Awesome!
RE: One of McAdoo's first sentences when he got on the podium  
Reale01 : 12/5/2017 12:43 pm : link
In comment 13724699 NyquistX3 said:
Quote:
last night was something along the lines of, "we played hard, we have to execute better".

That's basically code for "I am motivating the team to play hard, I am giving them a winning gameplan, the players aren't winning". It was startling. He basically assumed no blame for the loss and passed it off to everyone else.


Exactly! Seems like he is supporting the players when he is actually throwing them under the bus.
One last pet peev  
Reale01 : 12/5/2017 12:55 pm : link
He would constantly say that he wanted to get to manageable third downs. The object is not to get to 3rd down. The object is to score TDs. How many times was Eli 3 for 3 and we punt?
RE: Fatal flaw  
Section331 : 12/6/2017 10:29 am : link
In comment 13724746 Dragon said:
Quote:
Taking the HC position of the Giants with a front office without any honor.


Honor? What would you know about honor? This from the guy who openly roots for our starting QB to break his neck in a game against our hated rival. You wouldn't know honor if it bit you in your loser ass.
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