I'm thinking about the glaring problems with the O line and the linebackers. On some level I keep thinking, what's the use of a stud QB if the line still sucks?
Do you think they might decide to build a complete team around Webb?
Especially with the disastrous performance of recent high 1st round OL picks, I can't imagine that the Giants would pick an OL in the 1st round. I am not even sure there is a QB worth that pick. I am a big Saquon Barkley fan at this moment. He may be the best player in the draft. Boy, do we need a big time RB.
And even if he stays, 38 years old next season, absolutely they draft quarterback.
Eli is not gone, unless the Giants want him gone. He has two years left on the contract and unless he retires, he'll be back next year.
I cannot see Eli demanding a trade and holding out if not traded.
But to answer the OP - I think they will draft a QB if they have #2 pick.
and the value of a rare pick potentially in the top 3 with blue chip QBs available.
If NYG covets one that carries the grade and he's available, you pick him. That's what the draft is for, capturing the best value and player possible. If it turns out to be an OL or DE or whatever, so be it.
Fans to get off the narrow view of desperation regarding the OL, LB, etc.
but much of the stupidity of the past week is due to the fact that, as it stands now (and probably has been for the past couple of weeks, Davis Webb has no real future on this team. With Accorsi back in the fold, it's worthwhile remembering his stated philosophy that the opportunity to get a franchise/generational QB doesn't come around very often, so you pretty much have to move heave and earth to do it. Not saying that the top of the draft QB is a generational player, but the risk is infinitely less than it is for a 3rd round type of guy.
draft a QB, especially if Darnold stays in school. If they do draft a QB he could very easily end up sitting for a year or two, which would provide more time to repair the line.
Assuming the Giants pick 2nd or 3rd, I honestly don't see them making Rosen the face of the franchise. Nothing against Rosen, I love his skillset, but the last thing this organization needs is another potential lightning rod. We all have been reminded exactly what a stable, level-headed, model citizen QB means to a franchise. I think much of the stuff about Rosen has been overblown, but the Giants are looking to right the ship, and throwing another wildcard into the Giants locker room is probably a bad idea.
I feel completely different about next year than I did a week ago. The Giants will find a GM first, preferably someone in their 40s or early 50s who can manage the team for another decade. Mara will prioritize bringing in a HEAD COACH who has the ability and credentials to command the respect of the players, not just a guy known for his offensive or defensive success. Eli will be the starter next year while a QB is developed. If Darnold comes out, I think the Giants make a play for him. If he does not, I think the Giants will either wait until a later round to get a developmental QB and let him compete with Webb, draft one next year, or find a reclamation project (the Vikings will probably be forced to show two of their three QBs the door).
and the fact that Eli (unofficially) returned to the #1 spot, I still think Eli does not fit into the Giants' future plans and will be released. Eli won't be here next year. I think this is preordained. Mara already made the decision, and Eli is aware of it. That would account for his melancholy attitude last night with Francessa.
The Giants absolutely draft a QB.
RE: You need to understand the utility of the draft Â
and the value of a rare pick potentially in the top 3 with blue chip QBs available.
If NYG covets one that carries the grade and he's available, you pick him. That's what the draft is for, capturing the best value and player possible. If it turns out to be an OL or DE or whatever, so be it.
Fans to get off the narrow view of desperation regarding the OL, LB, etc.
This is the key point. With what is expected to be a Top 3 pick, the Giants have to go with the highest graded player available. I still think there will be resistance to Rosen, which will have nothing to do with talent, but if Darnold is on the board I think they will pounce.
Mara said it took a perfect storm to create this season, Â
it will take a similar one, to get us out of it....Getting the perfect, GM, HC, and several drafts that can right the ship....
As far as qb goes, the season is not over.....we don't know if we pick 2, 3, 4th and so on, until the season is over....it's possible we could beat the Cards......and Washington will have nothing to play for in the last game....so, potentially we could win 2 more games, which will affect our draft order....
You can read all the opinions about Webb that are out there.....each one has a grain of truth to them.....but until he actually plays in a game, you really know nothing.....playing against 2nd and 3rd stringers in preseason games, gives some insight, but playing in an actual game, is the ultimate test....
Yes, the OL sucks...there is no running game.....he basically only has one receiver in EE.....but the fact is, when we got off to such a bad start, any moron could anticipate that this team was going to have a bad record by the bye.....that changes would have to be made.....that a potential high draft pick was in the cards, and with an aging qb, there should have been a meeting of the minds somewhere along the line, that an assessment of our qb situation was needed....
Was Smith the answer to our future qb needs? No....he was only on this team as a short term player, if needed if Eli was hurt, and would miss a few games...we drafted Webb.....what if, say we pick third, and 2 qb's are already gone, and either one was the one we wanted? Then you have to determine, if what is left on the board, is better than Webb.....but the only way that happens is if Webb gets playing time.....
Basically, our season was gone after the first 5 games.....reality should have sunk in by the bye.....and yet Webb was still, not only not dressing for games, he was not getting reps in practice.....This is on the HC....it's also on the GM......the reason for having Smith on this roster, was gone.....Webb should have been getting the #2 reps in practice, instead of Geno...
Webb has to go out there and show how he reacts to an imperfect world in the NFL.....he is not under pressure to win.....but he can show how he faces the adversity of a bad OL.....if he can maneuver in the pocket to gain time.....does he show leadership in the huddle.....can he react to what the defense may throw at him....
It's obvious the tools will not be there for him....but we need to get as much info on him as we can....if what is left for qb's in the draft is not better than Webb, why pick a qb?
Also, it's not really fair to Webb, to throw all of this at him with just 4 games left.....but you just never know what you have in the guy, until he gets his chance.....he should be given a crash course, to get ready for at least the last two games.....not necessarily to start, but to get some significant playing time in the second half, at some point....
The new GM has to make a decision based on what he sees from Webb.....maybe Webb surprises us...maybe he fails....but he has to get out there, one way or the other....
and the fact that Eli (unofficially) returned to the #1 spot, I still think Eli does not fit into the Giants' future plans and will be released. Eli won't be here next year. I think this is preordained. Mara already made the decision, and Eli is aware of it. That would account for his melancholy attitude last night with Francessa.
The Giants absolutely draft a QB.
Completely disagree that Eli will be released. If that is what the franchise intended I doubt Mara would have made the moves he did yesterday. The table was set for Eli to be shown the door. McAdoo had already done the hard part, all Mara had to do was stay silent. The fact that Reese and McAdoo are gone, and Eli probably starts for the remainder of the season is a strong indication that Giants ownership would prefer Eli play another season and hopefully retire a Giant.
It's got to be strictly for his $. Any other reason, to me, makes no sense. Unless you plan on starting a rookie or they actually planned on letting Geno run the show next year while the rookie sat. I just don't see why you don't work with Eli and let him just finish the contract while the rookie sits.
The Giants have the biggest carrot possible for a new GM/coach Â
They have a top 3 pick to use on a franchise QB. If say the new GM prefers someone later in the draft, they trade down. But that pick is there for who they feel is a generational player
It's got to be strictly for his $. Any other reason, to me, makes no sense. Unless you plan on starting a rookie or they actually planned on letting Geno run the show next year while the rookie sat. I just don't see why you don't work with Eli and let him just finish the contract while the rookie sits.
Darnold stays in school, what the Browns do, where they finish, and what the new GM thinks of Webb will all determine if they draft a QB.
If Darnold stays in school, Rosen probably goes #1. The Giants won't take Mayfield, Jackson, or Allen with a top five pick.
If they finish with the fifth, fourth, or even third, it will cost too much too move up for Rosen or Darnold. That might happen if they win another two games.
The new GM might like Webb, or decide that Webb plus a whole bunch of draft picks from trading down is better than Rosen or Darnold.
If Darnold and/or Rosen stay in school, Cleveland is almost certain to take one. I don't think any of the other QB's are worth the 3rd pick, if that is where we end up. Either trade down, or take BPA, see if the Toledo kid is available in the 2nd.
In comment 13725091 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
Especially with the disastrous performance of recent high 1st round OL picks, I can't imagine that the Giants would pick an OL in the 1st round. I am not even sure there is a QB worth that pick. I am a big Saquon Barkley fan at this moment. He may be the best player in the draft. Boy, do we need a big time RB.
Now would be the perfect time to take someone like Lamar Jackson and let him sit behind Eli a year. By all accounts, Webb is not a "franchise quarterback," and by next year the Giants will be looking at having to start someone they would rather not, as opposed to having someone they are happy about ready.
After everything that happened this year, Eli may take some convincing to come back. Now is the time to roll the dice on his replacement.
and the value of a rare pick potentially in the top 3 with blue chip QBs available.
If NYG covets one that carries the grade and he's available, you pick him. That's what the draft is for, capturing the best value and player possible. If it turns out to be an OL or DE or whatever, so be it.
Fans to get off the narrow view of desperation regarding the OL, LB, etc.
Jon don't bother. Most fans can't see the forest beyond the trees and see the draft as the quick fix
But what we do need is a guy like Chubb ER NC state some linebackers and offensive line.Go with Eli and Webb try and accumulate extra picks.
Hope they get GM that makes sexy moves at least for 2018
The least of the Giants problems is the quarterback. the line has been a mess for years now, it needs to be addressed.
they have plenty of playmakers on defense, and with a decent offensive scheme that sustains drives for more then 45 secondsthe D wont spend as much time on the field and tire out
it looked to me this season the offense never even really tried to do anything, all underneath routes and checkdowns. even when beckham ws healthy he ran all slants, drags, and crosses, they guy sould have been going deep 10-15x a game
I dont understand the quick trigger of most who want to move on from Eli. he has been playing in a system that doesnt emphasize his strength, throwing the ball downfield. mcadoo turned eli into a game manager instead of letting the hall of fame qb that he is do what he has always done, push the ball downfield, take his shots.
Lets not forget what happened when peyton manning was released by the Colts, yea they drafted luck and had some playoff success but never got back to their level of play, peyton left and went on to 2 more super bowls, the colts on the other hand havent done much besides lose the AFc title game
i believe eli has at least 2 more years in him, letting him go for a rookie that maybe will be good is foolish, they have the talent to win another lombardi trophy, and that should be the goal
was to evaluate whether Geno (seemingly a McAdoo favorite) could do the job or if Webb could develop quickly ... If the answers were No and No ... then the high pick almost has to be used for a QB ... hopefully they'd get the Peyton Manning of the draft and not the Ryan Leaf ...
They also could have gotten the Jamarcus Russell knowing how well Reese evaluates talent ... Now smarter better people will make that call ...
If that's a QB, great. If not, pick the better player. Pushing to draft a guy that may not work out anyway will leave gaps elsewhere. There are options at QB (Manning being one, Webb another) so while it is a need for various reasons, it shouldn't be a desperation move.
We need a OT, OG, LB, RB, DE, QB and maybe a S. You would have a minimum total of five 1-3 round picks. Trade with the Jets and you maybe could get a total of 6.
If picks this close to top of the draft they have to take a QB Â
or trade down for a kings ransom of high draft choices ... an overpay offer from a team desperate for a QB. I would just take the QB unless they really like Webb a lot.
Eli is not gone, unless the Giants want him gone. He has two years left on the contract and unless he retires, he'll be back next year.
I cannot see Eli demanding a trade and holding out if not traded.
But to answer the OP - I think they will draft a QB if they have #2 pick.
If NYG covets one that carries the grade and he's available, you pick him. That's what the draft is for, capturing the best value and player possible. If it turns out to be an OL or DE or whatever, so be it.
Fans to get off the narrow view of desperation regarding the OL, LB, etc.
Assuming the Giants pick 2nd or 3rd, I honestly don't see them making Rosen the face of the franchise. Nothing against Rosen, I love his skillset, but the last thing this organization needs is another potential lightning rod. We all have been reminded exactly what a stable, level-headed, model citizen QB means to a franchise. I think much of the stuff about Rosen has been overblown, but the Giants are looking to right the ship, and throwing another wildcard into the Giants locker room is probably a bad idea.
I feel completely different about next year than I did a week ago. The Giants will find a GM first, preferably someone in their 40s or early 50s who can manage the team for another decade. Mara will prioritize bringing in a HEAD COACH who has the ability and credentials to command the respect of the players, not just a guy known for his offensive or defensive success. Eli will be the starter next year while a QB is developed. If Darnold comes out, I think the Giants make a play for him. If he does not, I think the Giants will either wait until a later round to get a developmental QB and let him compete with Webb, draft one next year, or find a reclamation project (the Vikings will probably be forced to show two of their three QBs the door).
The Giants absolutely draft a QB.
If NYG covets one that carries the grade and he's available, you pick him. That's what the draft is for, capturing the best value and player possible. If it turns out to be an OL or DE or whatever, so be it.
Fans to get off the narrow view of desperation regarding the OL, LB, etc.
This is the key point. With what is expected to be a Top 3 pick, the Giants have to go with the highest graded player available. I still think there will be resistance to Rosen, which will have nothing to do with talent, but if Darnold is on the board I think they will pounce.
As far as qb goes, the season is not over.....we don't know if we pick 2, 3, 4th and so on, until the season is over....it's possible we could beat the Cards......and Washington will have nothing to play for in the last game....so, potentially we could win 2 more games, which will affect our draft order....
You can read all the opinions about Webb that are out there.....each one has a grain of truth to them.....but until he actually plays in a game, you really know nothing.....playing against 2nd and 3rd stringers in preseason games, gives some insight, but playing in an actual game, is the ultimate test....
Yes, the OL sucks...there is no running game.....he basically only has one receiver in EE.....but the fact is, when we got off to such a bad start, any moron could anticipate that this team was going to have a bad record by the bye.....that changes would have to be made.....that a potential high draft pick was in the cards, and with an aging qb, there should have been a meeting of the minds somewhere along the line, that an assessment of our qb situation was needed....
Was Smith the answer to our future qb needs? No....he was only on this team as a short term player, if needed if Eli was hurt, and would miss a few games...we drafted Webb.....what if, say we pick third, and 2 qb's are already gone, and either one was the one we wanted? Then you have to determine, if what is left on the board, is better than Webb.....but the only way that happens is if Webb gets playing time.....
Basically, our season was gone after the first 5 games.....reality should have sunk in by the bye.....and yet Webb was still, not only not dressing for games, he was not getting reps in practice.....This is on the HC....it's also on the GM......the reason for having Smith on this roster, was gone.....Webb should have been getting the #2 reps in practice, instead of Geno...
Webb has to go out there and show how he reacts to an imperfect world in the NFL.....he is not under pressure to win.....but he can show how he faces the adversity of a bad OL.....if he can maneuver in the pocket to gain time.....does he show leadership in the huddle.....can he react to what the defense may throw at him....
It's obvious the tools will not be there for him....but we need to get as much info on him as we can....if what is left for qb's in the draft is not better than Webb, why pick a qb?
Also, it's not really fair to Webb, to throw all of this at him with just 4 games left.....but you just never know what you have in the guy, until he gets his chance.....he should be given a crash course, to get ready for at least the last two games.....not necessarily to start, but to get some significant playing time in the second half, at some point....
The new GM has to make a decision based on what he sees from Webb.....maybe Webb surprises us...maybe he fails....but he has to get out there, one way or the other....
The Giants absolutely draft a QB.
Completely disagree that Eli will be released. If that is what the franchise intended I doubt Mara would have made the moves he did yesterday. The table was set for Eli to be shown the door. McAdoo had already done the hard part, all Mara had to do was stay silent. The fact that Reese and McAdoo are gone, and Eli probably starts for the remainder of the season is a strong indication that Giants ownership would prefer Eli play another season and hopefully retire a Giant.
What about the dead money?
If Darnold stays in school, Rosen probably goes #1. The Giants won't take Mayfield, Jackson, or Allen with a top five pick.
If they finish with the fifth, fourth, or even third, it will cost too much too move up for Rosen or Darnold. That might happen if they win another two games.
The new GM might like Webb, or decide that Webb plus a whole bunch of draft picks from trading down is better than Rosen or Darnold.
Actually, with the 2nd pick.
After everything that happened this year, Eli may take some convincing to come back. Now is the time to roll the dice on his replacement.
If NYG covets one that carries the grade and he's available, you pick him. That's what the draft is for, capturing the best value and player possible. If it turns out to be an OL or DE or whatever, so be it.
Fans to get off the narrow view of desperation regarding the OL, LB, etc.
Jon don't bother. Most fans can't see the forest beyond the trees and see the draft as the quick fix
Hope they get GM that makes sexy moves at least for 2018
they have plenty of playmakers on defense, and with a decent offensive scheme that sustains drives for more then 45 secondsthe D wont spend as much time on the field and tire out
it looked to me this season the offense never even really tried to do anything, all underneath routes and checkdowns. even when beckham ws healthy he ran all slants, drags, and crosses, they guy sould have been going deep 10-15x a game
I dont understand the quick trigger of most who want to move on from Eli. he has been playing in a system that doesnt emphasize his strength, throwing the ball downfield. mcadoo turned eli into a game manager instead of letting the hall of fame qb that he is do what he has always done, push the ball downfield, take his shots.
Lets not forget what happened when peyton manning was released by the Colts, yea they drafted luck and had some playoff success but never got back to their level of play, peyton left and went on to 2 more super bowls, the colts on the other hand havent done much besides lose the AFc title game
i believe eli has at least 2 more years in him, letting him go for a rookie that maybe will be good is foolish, they have the talent to win another lombardi trophy, and that should be the goal
If the Giants love one of the hot qbs they absolutely have to take him. No question. But only if they love him.
They also could have gotten the Jamarcus Russell knowing how well Reese evaluates talent ... Now smarter better people will make that call ...