Three of their 5 starting O-lineman are UDFAs. And their line makes ours look like shit. What accounts for this? Better player evaluations or better coaching?
by saying a team's OL makes ours look like shit. Every NFL team's OL makes ours look like shit. I think the biggest reason behind this is a focus on spelling.
a thread to accumulate "facts" about the Steelers?
The Pittsburgh Steelers were founded by Arthur J. Rooney on July 8, 1933. Now the seventh-oldest franchise in the NFL, the Pittsburgh team was known as the Pirates until 1940.
a thread to accumulate "facts" about the Steelers?
The Pittsburgh Steelers were founded by Arthur J. Rooney on July 8, 1933. Now the seventh-oldest franchise in the NFL, the Pittsburgh team was known as the Pirates until 1940.
Now that is amassing...
they've been woefully underperforming most of the year
They poured about 150 million in that line and were expected to be much better, but they are near the bottom the league in rushing and yards per carry. Ben got killed early in the season, but they've been good in pass pro for awhile now. Part of that is Ben's ability to get away from pressure. For a guy that looks like he hits the gym once a month, he has nimble feet
I think Solari has done nothing with these guys.....the fact that the line improved a little because he was forced to make changes because of injuries, shows his rigidness in keeping the mess in tact, when a guy like Hart should not have been out there....
Somehow, this guy has been given a free pass for accomplishing nothing...
Arguably the best OL coach in football. David DeCastro was a 1st round pick, Marcus Gilbert a 2nd round pick, Pouncy a 1st round pick. SO they have a good mix. Better coaching, better scheme.
and 2 were undrafted. That's scouting. The Giants have only drafted 1 offensive lineman with their first pick in this century. The Patriots have used their first pick 4 times to draft to the O line.
with two UDFA's and a 5th round pick for 3 of their 5 OL and none of the other two was a 1st round pick like on the Steelers.
Honestly, I think that the success of unheralded guys on that 2007 line wrongly convinced Jerry that this was a blueprint to be followed rather than a wonderful fluke.
RE: two players on the offensive line were first round picks
and 2 were undrafted. That's scouting. The Giants have only drafted 1 offensive lineman with their first pick in this century. The Patriots have used their first pick 4 times to draft to the O line.
??? what?
Pugh
Flowers
for the Giants.
Not sure why you brought the Patriots up, but
Solder
Mankins
who else?
unless you're counting their 2nd round pick in Adrian Klemm in 2000, then you can add Richburg for the Giants.
with two UDFA's and a 5th round pick for 3 of their 5 OL and none of the other two was a 1st round pick like on the Steelers.
Honestly, I think that the success of unheralded guys on that 2007 line wrongly convinced Jerry that this was a blueprint to be followed rather than a wonderful fluke.
But if you look at the 12 playoff teams every year you find that (OL a mix between high picks and late picks/UDFA's is the norm. The Cowboys are the exception.
Most teams do not have more than 1 or 2 1sts/2nds on their OL.
look at the Broncos, Seahawks, Patriots, Packers, Panthers, etc. or teams from the past few years.
I think you HAVE to get OL contribution from elsewhere or coach up/develop them (or just sign FA's), but not many teams exercise the model of using their most precious asset (1st round draft picks) repeatedly on the OL.
But, for a long time, the Giants rarely spent anything but late round picks on OL. You had Snee in the second in 2004, followed by Koets in the 6th in 2007, Beatty at the end of the second in 2009, Petrus in 5th in 2010, Brewer in 4th in 2011, Mosely in the 4th and McCants in the 6th in 2012. Between 2004 and 2013, when they drafted Pugh, they picked a lineman earlier than the 4th round one time. A mix of early picks and late round/UDFA guys might be necessary, but to make that happen you have to spend a 1-3 pick on a lineman occasionally.
But, for a long time, the Giants rarely spent anything but late round picks on OL. You had Snee in the second in 2004, followed by Koets in the 6th in 2007, Beatty at the end of the second in 2009, Petrus in 5th in 2010, Brewer in 4th in 2011, Mosely in the 4th and McCants in the 6th in 2012. Between 2004 and 2013, when they drafted Pugh, they picked a lineman earlier than the 4th round one time. A mix of early picks and late round/UDFA guys might be necessary, but to make that happen you have to spend a 1-3 pick on a lineman occasionally.
I think the Giants problem on the OL has been:
1. scouting. it's the players not the investment
2. coaching. Almost no late round picks/low $$ free agents have become starters
3. scheme. they really need their OL to give the QB time, since with Eli he's not doing much to "create" at his age
4. Injuries.
If you said without knowing the names your team has two 1st round picks (Pugh, Flowers), 1 2nd round pick (Richburg) a former 3rd round pick (Jerry) and one other (Hart) on your line, and another former 1st (Fluker) in the rotation you'd probably be confident the OL was at least adequate.
Wouldn't you? It feels like you have to be because investing more than that seems neglectful to other areas of the team and it will catch up eventually.
But I think that, when you look at the big picture, the dearth of linemen being brought in from 2005-2012 is what spurred what we've seen since. They were complacent because they had an excellent line for a while, so they let the pipeline dry up. The line got old, injured, and ineffective in a hurry and they had no one worth a shit waiting in the wings to step up. So from 2013 on they've been compelled to draft OL early, and maybe forced some of those picks because of acute need.
The Pittsburgh Steelers were founded by Arthur J. Rooney on July 8, 1933. Now the seventh-oldest franchise in the NFL, the Pittsburgh team was known as the Pirates until 1940.
The Pittsburgh Steelers were founded by Arthur J. Rooney on July 8, 1933. Now the seventh-oldest franchise in the NFL, the Pittsburgh team was known as the Pirates until 1940.
Now that is amassing...
Somehow, this guy has been given a free pass for accomplishing nothing...
Honestly, I think that the success of unheralded guys on that 2007 line wrongly convinced Jerry that this was a blueprint to be followed rather than a wonderful fluke.
??? what?
Pugh
Flowers
for the Giants.
Not sure why you brought the Patriots up, but
Solder
Mankins
who else?
unless you're counting their 2nd round pick in Adrian Klemm in 2000, then you can add Richburg for the Giants.
Not sure if you confused something in your post.
Ask any Miami Dolphins fan what they thought of John Jerry and they will tell you about the matador
Quote:
with two UDFA's and a 5th round pick for 3 of their 5 OL and none of the other two was a 1st round pick like on the Steelers.
Honestly, I think that the success of unheralded guys on that 2007 line wrongly convinced Jerry that this was a blueprint to be followed rather than a wonderful fluke.
But if you look at the 12 playoff teams every year you find that (OL a mix between high picks and late picks/UDFA's is the norm. The Cowboys are the exception.
Most teams do not have more than 1 or 2 1sts/2nds on their OL.
look at the Broncos, Seahawks, Patriots, Packers, Panthers, etc. or teams from the past few years.
I think you HAVE to get OL contribution from elsewhere or coach up/develop them (or just sign FA's), but not many teams exercise the model of using their most precious asset (1st round draft picks) repeatedly on the OL.
I think the Giants problem on the OL has been:
1. scouting. it's the players not the investment
2. coaching. Almost no late round picks/low $$ free agents have become starters
3. scheme. they really need their OL to give the QB time, since with Eli he's not doing much to "create" at his age
4. Injuries.
If you said without knowing the names your team has two 1st round picks (Pugh, Flowers), 1 2nd round pick (Richburg) a former 3rd round pick (Jerry) and one other (Hart) on your line, and another former 1st (Fluker) in the rotation you'd probably be confident the OL was at least adequate.
Wouldn't you? It feels like you have to be because investing more than that seems neglectful to other areas of the team and it will catch up eventually.
So I guess that's not rediculous