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Eli to start Sunday

Mad Mike : 12/5/2017 2:50 pm
Per Garofalo
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RE: RE: RE: I am amazed at how many people  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/5/2017 7:25 pm : link
In comment 13726599 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 13726593 Gatorade Dunk said:


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In comment 13726547 EricJ said:


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Seem to value a meaningless streak over winning. I want Eli playing over Geno simply because we have a much better chance to win.


All the more reason NOT to play him.

I really don't understand fans who would rather cast aside a chance to set the franchise in a new direction for the next decade plus just for the sake of winning a few meaningless games in a lost season. How myopic can you be?



We've been a horrible football team all year long. We've won 2 games. Suddenly we're going to start winning? Why?

This team sucks. Eli isn't going to change that. We lost 9 of the 11 games he started and the two teams we beat have been awful ever since.

I'm not worried about suddenly winning games now, nor should anyone else. The Giants are a bad team. We don't need to play Webb to ensure that we lose games and that shouldn't be the primary motivation anyway.

With an interim coach bounce and the return of Eli? Yes, it's very possible they could win 1-2 games that will ultimately screw up the long-term opportunity that is currently in the Giants' lap.

What's the benefit of playing Eli? Don't you think he makes it more likely that the Giants win? If you can honestly say no, then I'll just turn around and ask why you'd play a soon-to-be 37 year old QB in the first place.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/5/2017 7:25 pm : link
I still don't understand why people think this team is suddenly going to be good or win games because Eli is back under center.

What changed? This has been a putrid football team in turmoil all year long. Suddenly we're going to start beating everyone?

I don't want to see Eli for the sake of seeing him - I want him to play if Webb isn't ready to play because it makes the most sense.

I'm not one of the fans saying they want to see wins or finish strong. But if Davis Webb isn't ready to play yet, he shouldn't play.

Unless you're really pining for Geno to continue playing... which I really wouldn't understand at all.
RE: We'll see...  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/5/2017 7:29 pm : link
In comment 13726589 Dan in the Springs said:
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personally I would have preferred we just play out the games without subjecting Eli to a possible benching because the game "got out of hand" or even allowing him to finish games because the defense has kept him in it.

Here's what I think/worry will happen.

Eli will start and play all the remaining games. The offense will struggle and Eli will look terrible. A new coach and GM will decide to go in a different direction. Another ugly divorce and more drama as Eli is let go from the Giants.
Eli's last games played here will continue a different streak - the number of games without any significant kind of offensive success.

The last meaningful game we played where Eli looked like the guy who could win a close game late for us was vs. Philly last year when he threw four TD's. I'll be happy if we can see that from him even one more time, win or lose. I just don't really believe we'll have a chance to see this again.

Oh, the humanity! A new coach and GM might decide that it's time to move on from a 37 year old QB who looked terrible and represents a $20MM+ cap hit. Do you really think it's prudent to bet on it being all the other factors having to line up just right, or do you think a new regime just embraces a full rebuild either way?

I think it's almost certainly the latter (which is also why they already put the blood on McAdoo's hands for breaking the streak), which is why it makes the most sense to give them the most valuable draft position to do so.
I guess the coaches that remain pretty clearly disagreed with McAdoo's  
baadbill : 12/5/2017 7:30 pm : link
decision.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/5/2017 7:30 pm : link
We lost to the Raiders by one score. 7 points was our smallest margin of defeat since Week 5 when we had our WR's healthy for at least a portion of the game.

Starting Geno doesn't guarantee losing any more than Eli does. This team has problems all over the place. They're terrible.
RE: .  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/5/2017 7:32 pm : link
In comment 13726607 arcarsenal said:
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I still don't understand why people think this team is suddenly going to be good or win games because Eli is back under center.

What changed? This has been a putrid football team in turmoil all year long. Suddenly we're going to start beating everyone?

I don't want to see Eli for the sake of seeing him - I want him to play if Webb isn't ready to play because it makes the most sense.

I'm not one of the fans saying they want to see wins or finish strong. But if Davis Webb isn't ready to play yet, he shouldn't play.

Unless you're really pining for Geno to continue playing... which I really wouldn't understand at all.

I'm pining for the best chance at the best possible draft pick. Do you think Eli gives them a better chance to win than Geno?

If so, he's a risk to interfere with the long-term opportunity. If not, is it just about sentimentality? Because there's definitely a handful of people on this thread alone who don't seem to understand the long-term implications of the next month.
RE: .  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/5/2017 7:33 pm : link
In comment 13726616 arcarsenal said:
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We lost to the Raiders by one score. 7 points was our smallest margin of defeat since Week 5 when we had our WR's healthy for at least a portion of the game.

Starting Geno doesn't guarantee losing any more than Eli does. This team has problems all over the place. They're terrible.

So you think Eli gives them a better chance to lose and Geno is the better QB? Is that what you're saying?
RE: RE: Why Start Eli?  
Bill L : 12/5/2017 7:34 pm : link
In comment 13726584 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13726569 Percy said:


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Because he's the team's best shot at winning -- and that's what it's supposed to be about. If the game gets away from them by more than two scores late, take Eli out and put Webb in. Forget about Geno. Nothing to learn there.


Is every game a one-off or are we allowed to look at "winning" in a more macro sense? Because the best shot at winning, long-term, is to lose every remaining game on their schedule this year. I'd rather sign up for an opportunity at a decade of winning than a month of meaningless games.

And, IMO, that's what it's supposed to be about.
and if they like it, maybe they can lose for money going forward.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/5/2017 7:35 pm : link
See above.

We're not guaranteed any outcome regardless of who starts.

We were down a field goal with under 5 minutes to play in Oakland. One late Derek Carr mistake could have had us leaving that stadium with a win.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 12/5/2017 7:36 pm : link
In comment 13726620 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13726616 arcarsenal said:


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We lost to the Raiders by one score. 7 points was our smallest margin of defeat since Week 5 when we had our WR's healthy for at least a portion of the game.

Starting Geno doesn't guarantee losing any more than Eli does. This team has problems all over the place. They're terrible.


So you think Eli gives them a better chance to lose and Geno is the better QB? Is that what you're saying?


No, that's not what I am saying

What I am saying is that the Giants are a very bad football team with a lot of injuries. Whether you start Eli or Geno, the odds of winning are slim.

Look at the offensive production with either guy under center this year. We can't score. It doesn't matter who plays.

I don't understand why you're suddenly worried that we're going to start winning if Eli starts. We haven't all year long. Suddenly that's going to change? Why?
RE: RE: RE: Why Start Eli?  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/5/2017 7:39 pm : link
In comment 13726622 Bill L said:
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In comment 13726584 Gatorade Dunk said:


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In comment 13726569 Percy said:


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Because he's the team's best shot at winning -- and that's what it's supposed to be about. If the game gets away from them by more than two scores late, take Eli out and put Webb in. Forget about Geno. Nothing to learn there.


Is every game a one-off or are we allowed to look at "winning" in a more macro sense? Because the best shot at winning, long-term, is to lose every remaining game on their schedule this year. I'd rather sign up for an opportunity at a decade of winning than a month of meaningless games.

And, IMO, that's what it's supposed to be about.

and if they like it, maybe they can lose for money going forward.

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at.

The Eli era is coming to a close whether we like it or not. He's about to turn 37 and is in some level of physical decline. We have an amazingly fortunate opportunity to transition to a new era with (hopefully) no trough in between franchise QBs, like so many teams suffer through.

If you'd rather win a few meaningless games that end up making us lose many more meaningful games in the future, all I can say is that I passionately disagree with your point of view.
RE: RE: RE: .  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/5/2017 7:42 pm : link
In comment 13726627 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 13726620 Gatorade Dunk said:


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In comment 13726616 arcarsenal said:


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We lost to the Raiders by one score. 7 points was our smallest margin of defeat since Week 5 when we had our WR's healthy for at least a portion of the game.

Starting Geno doesn't guarantee losing any more than Eli does. This team has problems all over the place. They're terrible.


So you think Eli gives them a better chance to lose and Geno is the better QB? Is that what you're saying?



No, that's not what I am saying

What I am saying is that the Giants are a very bad football team with a lot of injuries. Whether you start Eli or Geno, the odds of winning are slim.

Look at the offensive production with either guy under center this year. We can't score. It doesn't matter who plays.

I don't understand why you're suddenly worried that we're going to start winning if Eli starts. We haven't all year long. Suddenly that's going to change? Why?

I don't think it's a complicated question - is Eli more or less likely to win on Sunday than Geno (or, preferably, Webb)?

Because if the answer is more, it's just an unnecessary risk against the long-term best interests of the franchise, and it's only being done to quell a bloodthirsty mob.
I understand the philosophy  
Bill L : 12/5/2017 7:42 pm : link
.
RE: I guess the coaches that remain pretty clearly disagreed with McAdoo's  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/5/2017 7:44 pm : link
In comment 13726615 baadbill said:
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decision.

A lot of people "disagree" with something that put the guy ahead of them in front of a firing squad.
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 12/5/2017 7:47 pm : link
In comment 13726633 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13726627 arcarsenal said:


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In comment 13726620 Gatorade Dunk said:


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In comment 13726616 arcarsenal said:


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We lost to the Raiders by one score. 7 points was our smallest margin of defeat since Week 5 when we had our WR's healthy for at least a portion of the game.

Starting Geno doesn't guarantee losing any more than Eli does. This team has problems all over the place. They're terrible.


So you think Eli gives them a better chance to lose and Geno is the better QB? Is that what you're saying?



No, that's not what I am saying

What I am saying is that the Giants are a very bad football team with a lot of injuries. Whether you start Eli or Geno, the odds of winning are slim.

Look at the offensive production with either guy under center this year. We can't score. It doesn't matter who plays.

I don't understand why you're suddenly worried that we're going to start winning if Eli starts. We haven't all year long. Suddenly that's going to change? Why?


I don't think it's a complicated question - is Eli more or less likely to win on Sunday than Geno (or, preferably, Webb)?

Because if the answer is more, it's just an unnecessary risk against the long-term best interests of the franchise, and it's only being done to quell a bloodthirsty mob.


There's no way to quantify that or answer it factually. It would just be an opinion.

The offense looked equally uninspiring with both Geno and Eli because we have arena league WR's and an offensive line that can't block. The circumstances are such that I honestly don't think it makes a measurable difference.

We only needed 12 points to beat Kansas City a few weeks ago. We could win a flukey game with either player. Starting Geno doesn't guarantee anything aside from completely burning our bridges with Eli and eliminating the option to have him return next year.

And yes, I'd like to keep that option open if given the choice because it provides more flexibility going forward.
Why this is happening is simple...  
Dan in the Springs : 12/5/2017 7:50 pm : link
Spags wants to win and he clearly thinks Eli gives him the best chance to win. Rightfully so.

Ownership was tired of the losing and wants to still try to win every game.

Having said that, I wish McAdoo hadn't been fired because I preferred losing but seeing what we had in the other QB's. I don't worry about the development of Webb. I don't think we're going to ruin a 3rd round pick by giving him some snaps now. Why do we bother giving them snaps in preseason when they have the worst OL's and running games in the league? To develop them and evaluate them.

Like others here, I don't think we're going to produce offensively no matter who is under center. I'd prefer it not be Eli because the games are more interesting with young talent - at least you can see who is on the bench. I also don't savor the notion of Eli playing another quarter season of putrid football. Finally, I don't see what we have to gain by playing Eli at this point.

If you're a fan of Eli and want him around next year why risk injuring him in these meaningless games?

If you're not a fan of Eli (at this point) and are ready to move on, why have Eli start these meaningless games?

I can only see one condition - that you want to win these games (like Spags does) and you believe that Eli can help you get that done. This is the only real reason I believe you should really start Eli throughout.

And I don't get the uproar over the original plan of starting Eli but bringing in the backups later in the game vs. starting Eli and pulling him because the game is out of hand (signaling a lack of confidence in Eli's ability to pull out a win). The second would certainly be more painful and disrespectful to Eli, imo. Eli - we planned to have you in the game but since we're doing nothing with you on offense we're going to take you out and see what we got with someone else. YIKES!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/5/2017 7:53 pm : link
In comment 13726643 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 13726633 Gatorade Dunk said:


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In comment 13726627 arcarsenal said:


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In comment 13726620 Gatorade Dunk said:


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In comment 13726616 arcarsenal said:


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We lost to the Raiders by one score. 7 points was our smallest margin of defeat since Week 5 when we had our WR's healthy for at least a portion of the game.

Starting Geno doesn't guarantee losing any more than Eli does. This team has problems all over the place. They're terrible.


So you think Eli gives them a better chance to lose and Geno is the better QB? Is that what you're saying?



No, that's not what I am saying

What I am saying is that the Giants are a very bad football team with a lot of injuries. Whether you start Eli or Geno, the odds of winning are slim.

Look at the offensive production with either guy under center this year. We can't score. It doesn't matter who plays.

I don't understand why you're suddenly worried that we're going to start winning if Eli starts. We haven't all year long. Suddenly that's going to change? Why?


I don't think it's a complicated question - is Eli more or less likely to win on Sunday than Geno (or, preferably, Webb)?

Because if the answer is more, it's just an unnecessary risk against the long-term best interests of the franchise, and it's only being done to quell a bloodthirsty mob.



There's no way to quantify that or answer it factually. It would just be an opinion.

The offense looked equally uninspiring with both Geno and Eli because we have arena league WR's and an offensive line that can't block. The circumstances are such that I honestly don't think it makes a measurable difference.

We only needed 12 points to beat Kansas City a few weeks ago. We could win a flukey game with either player. Starting Geno doesn't guarantee anything aside from completely burning our bridges with Eli and eliminating the option to have him return next year.

And yes, I'd like to keep that option open if given the choice because it provides more flexibility going forward.

Fair enough, and I can appreciate that alone as a reason.

My opinion is that they're very likely to part ways with Eli either way, especially after this past week, but not necessarily because Eli won't want to come back (although who knows if he will), but because I think a new regime is likely to have extreme reservations about repeating the circus that this past week became.

And that would be the ultimate O. Henry level irony - all of the fan outrage that went down this past week could ultimately affect the next regime's willingness to keep Eli and risk going through it again.
RE: Real useful.  
djm : 12/5/2017 7:59 pm : link
In comment 13726099 BP in Delray said:
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Spags coaching to win the last four games, to try and win himself the head job. Playing an aging known quantity in a lost season while a young, promising player continues to watch. I can see it now, Abrams/Spags GM/HC combo.

Just what the doctor ordered.


Go look at history of teams that struggled with good established veteran qbs. They never sat the qb. Never. That's one of the reasons why mcadoo was fired. Or I should say the decision to bench Eli for smith was indicative of a lost head coach.

They never sit the vet qb unless the young qb is highly regarded. I
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
Dan in the Springs : 12/5/2017 7:59 pm : link
In comment 13726653 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:

My opinion is that they're very likely to part ways with Eli either way, especially after this past week, but not necessarily because Eli won't want to come back (although who knows if he will), but because I think a new regime is likely to have extreme reservations about repeating the circus that this past week became.

And that would be the ultimate O. Henry level irony - all of the fan outrage that went down this past week could ultimately affect the next regime's willingness to keep Eli and risk going through it again.


I couldn't agree more - although I'm with Arc personally in that I'm okay with keeping Eli around, I don't really see a reason that the new regime will want to do the same. They've got to make the right decisions with regards to QB and would rather go through some growing pains with the new talent at QB than deal with benching Eli at some point in the near future.

And of course, there is the possibility that they want to simply change offensive philosophies and go with a more mobile QB. They may feel that Eli doesn't fit with that philosophy.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/5/2017 8:05 pm : link
You could be right - obviously that will all depend on who we bring in, but sure, it's absolutely possible they feel that way.

To be clear, there are fans who actually want to see the Giants win these games - I'm not one of those. I want the better pick. I just really think we'll keep losing even if we start Eli, and I figure if there's a chance to salvage the relationship, it's worth doing in the event that the following regime feels Eli is still someone they want to be a part of their plans going forward.

Ideally, I'd like for Eli to prove he's still got a little something left while we simultaneously lose out. It'll be hard for both things to happen together, but that's my hope.

I'm just tired of the circus atmosphere at this point.
...  
christian : 12/5/2017 8:10 pm : link
The whole sports world shit an Eli sized thorn bush because he was "disrespected" and the coach and GM lost their jobs in part for it.

There is a thread right now on this website about another players dad sending Eli's dad a condolence note over not starting.

The whole football world cares and that's why Manning is starting.
RE: RE: Real useful.  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/5/2017 8:10 pm : link
In comment 13726666 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13726099 BP in Delray said:


Quote:


Spags coaching to win the last four games, to try and win himself the head job. Playing an aging known quantity in a lost season while a young, promising player continues to watch. I can see it now, Abrams/Spags GM/HC combo.

Just what the doctor ordered.




Go look at history of teams that struggled with good established veteran qbs. They never sat the qb. Never. That's one of the reasons why mcadoo was fired. Or I should say the decision to bench Eli for smith was indicative of a lost head coach.

They never sit the vet qb unless the young qb is highly regarded. I

At least the Broncos had the good sense to pretend that Peyton was injured in 2015 when they benched him.
RE: Can't wait for Geno's press conference  
KeoweeFan : 12/5/2017 8:48 pm : link
In comment 13726111 averagejoe said:
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I'm sure he will be very gracious

Geno had his start.
Davis is the one who (appropriately) will have fewer starts.
The NYGs should jettison Geno (so he can compete as BU on another team) and start a REAL evaluation of Davis (vs a high draft choice if they go that way) next spring. Even if not #1, Webb should be a solid #2 with proper coaching, or even have trade value.
Imagine next year will be the same as this year  
xman : 12/5/2017 10:46 pm : link
but we can enjoy Eli's goodbye tour . At worst it delays the rebuild a year or so
RE: Imagine next year will be the same as this year  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/5/2017 10:56 pm : link
In comment 13726896 xman said:
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but we can enjoy Eli's goodbye tour . At worst it delays the rebuild a year or so

You're right. Delaying the rebuild a year or so is the worst. We should avoid that. Stop patching holes on a broken product and start the rebuild ASAP.
Doesnít matter who starts at QB  
BigBlue4You09 : 12/5/2017 11:02 pm : link
We arenít winning
The fact that they kept that Oakland game close makes me nervous  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/5/2017 11:46 pm : link
. The KC and Denver wins were random too,
RE: The fact that they kept that Oakland game close makes me nervous  
old man : 12/6/2017 1:45 am : link
In comment 13726940 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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. The KC and Denver wins were random too,


AFC-W sucks...as does NFC-W. We just sucked less than those 2.
.....  
Route 9 : 12/6/2017 4:33 am : link
I don't think anyone should be worrying about this team going on a mini 4 game tear to finish off this nonsense season. No way they're beating Dallas or Philly.

Dallas game- the Giants will likely keep it close but will lose the game in the fourth quarter or win in OT.

Philly game- I actually think the Rams will manhandle Philly out there with that LA front four. Philly is going to come back to NJ, pissed off and Wentz will go back to looking like an all star again throwing 4 touchdowns, Eagles will be the darlings of the NFL after winning 44-3 and everyone will slurp them up again because they beat another moron team.

Arizona game- Go back to where Super Bowl 42 was in a white jersey #10 one last time. Giants win 13-10.

Washington game - lose something like 21-10. Eli's last game as a Giants player/starter or whatever. Have Coughlin and others greet him to send him off.

Giants finish 3-13 to wrap up this bizarre season
Dallas will win in overtime  
Route 9 : 12/6/2017 4:37 am : link
I meant. Also, Cleveland has been pretty stupid with their early picks, haven't they?
RE: RE: So lets just say the score of the next 4 games going into 4th QTR  
Jimmy Googs : 12/6/2017 6:47 am : link
In comment 13726585 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 13726573 Jimmy Googs said:


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is Giants losing 17-7 in each one. Offense playing like it usually does and not moving the ball, the defense keeping it reasonable but tiring as always. We happen to put up 7 points because of some short field turnover from the opposing team.

Are we allowed to bench Eli and give snaps to Webb in any of these types of games?

If it were up to you "bleeding hearts" the answer would be no.

So Webb will continue to sit...



How much of a difference in Webb's career do you think it'll really make if he gets a few series' in blowouts?

Under the circumstances you outlined, I'd be fine with giving Webb a look. I'm just not sure it ultimately accomplishes much of anything.

It sounds like a lot of you guys just want to see the guy for the sake of seeing him. If he goes out there and plays slightly better or worse than Geno just did, how much stronger are your convictions about him really going to be?

The fact of the matter is that there's nothing Webb can do between now and New Year's Day that is going to cement his status for the next regime one way or another.

Whether he plays well or he doesn't, it's not going to change the Giants' plans - nor should it. That ship has sailed.


You miss the point. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by playing Eli. Nothing.

therefore you play Webb...
RE: Imagine next year will be the same as this year  
christian : 12/6/2017 6:47 am : link
In comment 13726896 xman said:
Quote:
but we can enjoy Eli's goodbye tour . At worst it delays the rebuild a year or so


That is a dreadful way to run a franchise.
Anybody thinking that Eli should even be on this team next year  
Jimmy Googs : 12/6/2017 6:53 am : link
has a screw loose.

The successful restructuring of this team began this week with the firing of two problems. Eli around only further delays the progress...
Nothing to gain by playing Webb either  
Bill L : 12/6/2017 7:07 am : link
I think they should just go with 10 men and snap the ball directly to Darkwa.
RE: Nothing to gain by playing Webb either  
Jimmy Googs : 12/6/2017 7:51 am : link
In comment 13727026 Bill L said:
Quote:
I think they should just go with 10 men and snap the ball directly to Darkwa.


It looks like we do that already...
Reality Bites  
Jeffrey : 12/6/2017 7:56 am : link
It will again on Sunday when the fans get aging and immobile Eli back with an incompetent OL, the same lack of offensive firepower, the same coach calling the plays, and an opponent that is a desperate team trying to make the playoffs, with an improving and aggressive defense. I really hope I am wrong but in my mind the Giants continue their losing streak--on and off the field --with another bad decision. They blew it on how they benched Eli, and now they are reinserting him as a weak, face-saving measure when they really need to know what they have behind him on the bench before the off-season.

Regardless of who plays QB, they chances of them improving  
Bill L : 12/6/2017 8:21 am : link
their record enough to fall out of the blue-chip QB range are virtually non-existent.

So, come up with a scenario where they do *not* take the blue-chip QB. I will tell you that it's fanciful. A responsible franchise would do nothing else but take a potential franchise QB.

I'm not wed to playing Eli but there is really no rational reason not to, other than the philosophy where everyone gets to play and we all have oranges at half-time. There nothing to learn because, given their record, nothing will change their draft strategy. And they know it.
Confirmed?  
simsfan11 : 12/6/2017 9:09 am : link
Is Eli starting a definite? I see it's rumored so far. I'd imagine it's true.

Someone let me know! Thanks!
Yeah, that Arizona game looks winnable. They're just as pathetic  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/6/2017 9:18 am : link
on offense as the Giants.
guessing people here have the pholosophy  
micky : 12/6/2017 9:37 am : link
of putting a band aide on a large crack in the Hoover dam thinking "it'll fix it!"
Another thing that bothers me so much...  
Dan in the Springs : 12/6/2017 9:46 am : link
about this thing, is it just seems so reactionary, which typically hasn't been the Giants style, and imo is a poor way to run any program.

You made a decision and you back the decision. Why? Because you believed it was best for the organization. Now, after terminating two people, you're going to back off that decision. But what has changed? Only the head coach and GM. And yet Mara claims it was as much his idea that the QB's needed to be evaluated as anyone. So he no longer cares enough to do that?
RE: Another thing that bothers me so much...  
Les in TO : 12/6/2017 10:01 am : link
In comment 13727267 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
about this thing, is it just seems so reactionary, which typically hasn't been the Giants style, and imo is a poor way to run any program.

You made a decision and you back the decision. Why? Because you believed it was best for the organization. Now, after terminating two people, you're going to back off that decision. But what has changed? Only the head coach and GM. And yet Mara claims it was as much his idea that the QB's needed to be evaluated as anyone. So he no longer cares enough to do that?
I guess the only consistent thing is that Mara was always in favour of the plan to let Eli start the rest of the season and work in Geno and Davis into the game, depending on the situation of the game (as opposed to McAdoo putting a hard stop of the transition at halftime). Maybe that is still the plan.

However, if the plan going forward is to let Eli play the entire game for the rest of the season, then that is clearly a populist reactionary decision that is intended to appease the fanboys and reduce protests/incremental bad PR/hate mail at the expense of evaluating the backups. It's like when Coke introduced New Coke and then quickly yanked it after customer anger.
RE: RE: Do people still give a crap about the stupid streak?  
Millburn : 12/6/2017 10:11 am : link
In comment 13726133 Giantslifer said:
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In comment 13726105 BigBlue4You09 said:


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Eli didn't, doubtful he was going to catch Favre anyway. And when it's mentioned in the future it's also going to be along with "Eli's would be longer if not benched for his idiot coach that got fired a few days later".


Seriously, does ANYONE anywhere believe that MacMagoo made the decision to sit Eli.? That order came from MARA/TISCH.
MacMagoo still deserved to be fired after SF game




Mcadoo is the one who screwed it up!
RE: RE: RE: Do people still give a crap about the stupid streak?  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/6/2017 11:23 am : link
In comment 13727316 Millburn said:
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In comment 13726133 Giantslifer said:


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In comment 13726105 BigBlue4You09 said:


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Eli didn't, doubtful he was going to catch Favre anyway. And when it's mentioned in the future it's also going to be along with "Eli's would be longer if not benched for his idiot coach that got fired a few days later".


Seriously, does ANYONE anywhere believe that MacMagoo made the decision to sit Eli.? That order came from MARA/TISCH.
MacMagoo still deserved to be fired after SF game





Mcadoo is the one who screwed it up!

John Mara admitted that he signed off on EXACTLY the plan that McAdoo presented Eli with.
RE: RE: RE: So lets just say the score of the next 4 games going into 4th QTR  
arcarsenal : 12/6/2017 11:23 am : link
In comment 13727012 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 13726585 arcarsenal said:


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In comment 13726573 Jimmy Googs said:


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is Giants losing 17-7 in each one. Offense playing like it usually does and not moving the ball, the defense keeping it reasonable but tiring as always. We happen to put up 7 points because of some short field turnover from the opposing team.

Are we allowed to bench Eli and give snaps to Webb in any of these types of games?

If it were up to you "bleeding hearts" the answer would be no.

So Webb will continue to sit...



How much of a difference in Webb's career do you think it'll really make if he gets a few series' in blowouts?

Under the circumstances you outlined, I'd be fine with giving Webb a look. I'm just not sure it ultimately accomplishes much of anything.

It sounds like a lot of you guys just want to see the guy for the sake of seeing him. If he goes out there and plays slightly better or worse than Geno just did, how much stronger are your convictions about him really going to be?

The fact of the matter is that there's nothing Webb can do between now and New Year's Day that is going to cement his status for the next regime one way or another.

Whether he plays well or he doesn't, it's not going to change the Giants' plans - nor should it. That ship has sailed.



You miss the point. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by playing Eli. Nothing.

therefore you play Webb...


Actually, there is - and I mentioned it several times already.

Webb needs to be ready to play and McAdoo did not intend on playing him at all this season, so there was very little preparation done in that regard.

You don't just throw him out there for the sake of doing it. He's a rookie that was supposed to be redshirted this year and was thought to be a little bit of a project.

There's nothing to be gained by throwing him to the wolves before he's ready, either. And there's a good chance that's the case.
RE: RE: Another thing that bothers me so much...  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/6/2017 11:29 am : link
In comment 13727298 Les in TO said:
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In comment 13727267 Dan in the Springs said:


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about this thing, is it just seems so reactionary, which typically hasn't been the Giants style, and imo is a poor way to run any program.

You made a decision and you back the decision. Why? Because you believed it was best for the organization. Now, after terminating two people, you're going to back off that decision. But what has changed? Only the head coach and GM. And yet Mara claims it was as much his idea that the QB's needed to be evaluated as anyone. So he no longer cares enough to do that?

I guess the only consistent thing is that Mara was always in favour of the plan to let Eli start the rest of the season and work in Geno and Davis into the game, depending on the situation of the game (as opposed to McAdoo putting a hard stop of the transition at halftime). Maybe that is still the plan.

However, if the plan going forward is to let Eli play the entire game for the rest of the season, then that is clearly a populist reactionary decision that is intended to appease the fanboys and reduce protests/incremental bad PR/hate mail at the expense of evaluating the backups. It's like when Coke introduced New Coke and then quickly yanked it after customer anger.

Mara signed off on McAdoo's plan.
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Q: Were you aware of Benís plan to start and play Eli for the first half, and Geno in the second before he actually went and presented it to Eli?

A: That seems to be the focus of everybodyís attention right now. The plan was, Ben was going to talk to Eli and tell him that he was going to start and play the first half and Geno would play the second half. I signed off on that. But, again, my hope was two things: one, that I was going to speak to Ben and try to get him to be a little bit more flexible about that all. I do not like interfering with coaching decisions about whoís going to play, Iíve never done that before. I also, as I said I think the other day to you guys, was hoping that Eli would be playing so well, itíd be impossible to take him out. In any event, it is where it is and you ought to stop blaming Ben and Jerry on that. If you want to blame me, go ahead and do it. I certainly have the power to overrule them if I wanted to, I chose not to do it.
But i disagree. You guys kill me with this "ready".  
Jimmy Googs : 12/6/2017 11:30 am : link
We have a fairly simple offense and not a whole of options to it anyway. Webb doesn't need to learn the Eli playbook. He need to knwo how to get under center. He needs to know how to make a few checks at the line. He needs to know how to set his RB to handle a potential blitz.

In the end he needs to know how to hand off the ball 2 out of every 3 plays and make a few slant passes and fades.

Every now and then he will have to scramble, and evey now and then he will need to go down and take a sack.

If he is brave, then maybe he will stand in there...so lets see it.



.  
arcarsenal : 12/6/2017 11:40 am : link
If you think playing QB in the NFL is that simple, we're never going to agree. Because he's a hell of a lot more than that.
Of course its not that simple, I only want to type just so much  
Jimmy Googs : 12/6/2017 11:51 am : link
But this isn't ground-breaking stuff either. Sometimes rookie QBs play...you know?

You all have been spoiled for having Eli show up to play every week for the past 14 years...

.....  
Route 9 : 12/7/2017 10:21 am : link
Someone help me out here to understand all of this because I do not watch college football (nor do I have any interest to start checking it out) and I don't really want to spend my time reading 87 stupid mock drafts a few weeks before Christmas; but is there only ONE stud/can't miss QB in this upcoming draft or something?

I'm asking for the reason Gatorade (and others) is paranoid now "Manning is back and how this will derail us for a good draft spot with too many wins".

Is there a Peyton Manning/Andrew Luck type as far as QBs are related in the 2018 draft, and that's it? I think the Browns are locked in for that #1 pick, they're not winning any games this year. #0-16..

The Giants will get a good pick (they already have 10 losses) and hey it won't be Reese making the choice this time around. Hooray?
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