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Still completely confused with Webb situation.

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/5/2017 7:36 pm
So I just read that he's going to be inactive Sunday, with Geno as the backup. If the plan was to get him PT when the season was shot-which it effectively was my mid October at the latest-why not start increasing his reps then? Why wait until the first week of December? I just don't get it. Am I missing something? It just seems like management/coaching staff completely botched this.
Spags wants to win the game...  
Dan in the Springs : 12/5/2017 7:39 pm : link
and thinks that he has a better chance with Eli starting and Geno backing him up than by starting an unproven rookie.

This is why I think it may have been a mistake to fire McAdoo and Reese at this point. Spags' best interest conflict with the orgs' best interest at this point, imo.
No, not questioning Spags.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/5/2017 7:44 pm : link
He was the DC when this was going on. I'm more ?ing why Webb didn't see more reps when it was obvious the season was lost. He's only starting to see them now. It just doesn't really make sense to me. Perhaps I'm missing something, but if you want to see what you got in the kid, why not start, ya know, letting him show you what he's got?
Because mac was coaching for his job  
ron mexico : 12/5/2017 7:44 pm : link
And getting the rookie preped for the future doesn't help him win games and keep his job
RE: Spags wants to win the game...  
BigBlueShock : 12/5/2017 7:50 pm : link
In comment 13726629 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
and thinks that he has a better chance with Eli starting and Geno backing him up than by starting an unproven rookie.

This is why I think it may have been a mistake to fire McAdoo and Reese at this point. Spags' best interest conflict with the orgs' best interest at this point, imo.

Thatís not how this works. Ownership doesnít bring in an interim coach and let him decide the direction of the team. The role of the interim coach is to do what ownership tells him is the preference of the team moving forward.
And Mara wants to beat Dallas  
Bill in TN : 12/5/2017 7:52 pm : link
and figures Eli gives him the best chance of doing that.
RE: Because mac was coaching for his job  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/5/2017 7:54 pm : link
In comment 13726638 ron mexico said:
Quote:
And getting the rookie preped for the future doesn't help him win games and keep his job


Then why did he come out last week & say the exact opposite, i.e. that Webb would play?
RE: RE: Spags wants to win the game...  
Dan in the Springs : 12/5/2017 7:55 pm : link
In comment 13726648 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:

Thatís not how this works. Ownership doesnít bring in an interim coach and let him decide the direction of the team. The role of the interim coach is to do what ownership tells him is the preference of the team moving forward.


I don't disagree - maybe I made my point unclearly. Ownership wants to win the game and have told that to Spags. Spags is hoping to win the HC job permanently and/or salvage whatever reputation he has left by winning.

The best interest of the org that I was referring to was what the org wanted just ten days ago - to put winning secondary to evaluating their own players. They've clearly shifted priorities at this point.
The plan is not to get him reps  
UberAlias : 12/5/2017 7:56 pm : link
Fans bitched and complained so now the plan is all in on 2017.
Yeah Dan  
Bill in TN : 12/5/2017 7:57 pm : link
with 3 of the remaining 4 games against division rivals, I doubt we see Webb at all this year.
The plan was to get young kids in  
UberAlias : 12/5/2017 7:58 pm : link
But backlashes changed that so is no longer a priority. Itís win at all cost. Foolish
It is off  
RetroJint : 12/5/2017 7:59 pm : link
What Mara didn't realize is that the vast , silent majority of Giant fans, though very respectful and appreciative of Eli's career accomplishments , wanted to see the change . And there was no "good" way to do this.

Spagnuolo is going to pull out all the stops to win these games . With Eli playing every minute. So what does this do? It locks the Giants into selecting a QB with their high 1.
RE: It is off  
Dan in the Springs : 12/5/2017 8:02 pm : link
In comment 13726665 RetroJint said:
Quote:
What Mara didn't realize is that the vast , silent majority of Giant fans, though very respectful and appreciative of Eli's career accomplishments , wanted to see the change . And there was no "good" way to do this.

Spagnuolo is going to pull out all the stops to win these games . With Eli playing every minute. So what does this do? It locks the Giants into selecting a QB with their high 1.


One thing to add to your final statement. It also ensures a second Eli divorce in the near future, like ripping the band-aid off again.
Getting Webb some time was a noble priority  
bigbluehoya : 12/5/2017 8:03 pm : link
They fucked it up so badly, now saving face with Eli is the priority.

Itís understandable, but it would be unfortunate to now not play Webb at all just for the sake of avoiding further Eli feels.
RE: RE: Because mac was coaching for his job  
ron mexico : 12/5/2017 8:05 pm : link
In comment 13726656 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 13726638 ron mexico said:


Quote:


And getting the rookie preped for the future doesn't help him win games and keep his job



Then why did he come out last week & say the exact opposite, i.e. that Webb would play?


Directive from Mara and Reese.
Absent  
AcidTest : 12/5/2017 8:06 pm : link
injuries, we're not going to see Webb this year. I'd be fine playing him in blowouts, but understand if the Giants don't. The offense is moribund and dysfunctional, he's received no first team reps, and is a rookie from a spread offense with no experience under center. What could he possibly do? What could we possibly learn?
OK  
mdthedream : 12/5/2017 8:07 pm : link
If I was ownership I would say look if the game is in reach go for the win but if its 24-7 late in the third get the kid playing time.
We  
AcidTest : 12/5/2017 8:11 pm : link
cannot even remotely predict what the Giants will do with their #1 pick until we know: (1) where they are picking, and (2) if Darnold comes out. No Darnold and even the #2 pick significantly decreases the chance of taking a QB in the first round, absent a trade down.
I don't think we will know how the story went down  
SLIM_ : 12/5/2017 8:12 pm : link
All signs point to McAdoo blaming a lot of his offense failures on Eli. That is probably the only known known.

My guess is that McAdoo in some way spun getting Webb some minutes so that he can try his offense without Eli.

Spags takes over and along with Sullivan convince Mara that putting Webb in now would be counter productive at this point. You would gain nothing from seeing him in an offense that he really hasn't practiced in, without an OL and with bad talent at WR. I'm in aligment with that.

giants are a clusterfuck  
micky : 12/5/2017 8:14 pm : link
they have no idea what the he'll they're doing
I  
AcidTest : 12/5/2017 8:14 pm : link
would also say that not playing Webb may indicate that the Giants really like him, and don't want to jeopardize his future.
RE: OK  
ron mexico : 12/5/2017 8:23 pm : link
In comment 13726685 mdthedream said:
Quote:
If I was ownership I would say look if the game is in reach go for the win but if its 24-7 late in the third get the kid playing time.


The real question is how do you split up practice reps.

How would you split the reps?
RE: It is off  
JCin332 : 12/5/2017 8:23 pm : link
In comment 13726665 RetroJint said:
Quote:
What Mara didn't realize is that the vast , silent majority of Giant fans, though very respectful and appreciative of Eli's career accomplishments , wanted to see the change . And there was no "good" way to do this.

Spagnuolo is going to pull out all the stops to win these games . With Eli playing every minute. So what does this do? It locks the Giants into selecting a QB with their high 1.


Lmao the client majority...you mean you and Les...??

Holy shitfuck...
silent  
JCin332 : 12/5/2017 8:24 pm : link
..
I believe that Webb was a McAdoo pick.  
JohnB : 12/5/2017 8:29 pm : link
McAdoo wanted Patrick Mahomes and scouted him in person. When he was drafted at #10 to KC, Webb was a fallback position for McAdoo... someone, anyone to replace Eli. I thought this all along and what happened in season backs it up.

Our own Sy56 said, when Webb was drafted, that the pick made NO sense at all but in hindsight, it makes perfect sense if you're trying to give Eli the boot (which is a foolish position to begin with).

But in the end, McAdoo is gone, his "Webb-as-a-backup/replacement to Eli" plan is gone, the guy who signed off on drafting Webb is gone and soon Webb will be gone too.

Eli is our QB for the rest of the year and Webb will never be active on game day. And next year, it will be Eli and our 1st round draft choice QB. Webb will be be going in the direction McAdoo and Reese went, out the door.

This is my guess.
RE: I  
yatqb : 12/5/2017 8:31 pm : link
In comment 13726699 AcidTest said:
Quote:
would also say that not playing Webb may indicate that the Giants really like him, and don't want to jeopardize his future.


I was thinking the opposite...that they know he's woefully unprepared to play in a game, which indicates that we're gonna take a QB if we have the chance in the 1st.
RE: It is off  
markky : 12/5/2017 8:31 pm : link
In comment 13726665 RetroJint said:
Quote:
What Mara didn't realize is that the vast , silent majority of Giant fans, though very respectful and appreciative of Eli's career accomplishments , wanted to see the change . And there was no "good" way to do this.

Spagnuolo is going to pull out all the stops to win these games . With Eli playing every minute. So what does this do? It locks the Giants into selecting a QB with their high 1.


I would pick a QB anyway. It's an asset you don't get a chance to acquire that often. Who cares if we have both Webb + Darnold or Rosen?

I'm even ok if it means we suck for one more year. That just means we get high picks again in 2019 draft.

Plus I don't see any path to the SB with Eli anyway. It will take too long to correct this shit show.
Webb was the bait  
montanagiant : 12/5/2017 8:33 pm : link
That McAdoo and Reese used to get the permission from Mara to approach Eli about giving up some playing time. They know what they have in Webb and they know he is not the answer they just used the idea of him playing to slip Geno under the arrogant misconception that just being mobile was going to work and save their jobs. The proof of this is going to Eli while Webb was two weeks away from being active
It's not the Giants way to tank the season for a lower pick,  
81_Great_Dane : 12/5/2017 8:36 pm : link
or to treat regular season games as pre-season, and tell the fans that they're not trying to win.

Webb was never supposed to play this season. This was supposed to be a watch-and-learn year. Suddenly they were abandoning that plan -- and the result was a huge mess and a PR debacle. So they're probably going back to the original plan. Webb doesn't even dress, but next summer he competes to be the backup.
RE: No, not questioning Spags.  
Matt M. : 12/5/2017 8:36 pm : link
In comment 13726637 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
He was the DC when this was going on. I'm more ?ing why Webb didn't see more reps when it was obvious the season was lost. He's only starting to see them now. It just doesn't really make sense to me. Perhaps I'm missing something, but if you want to see what you got in the kid, why not start, ya know, letting him show you what he's got?
He's not even starting to see them now, which is BS. The whole thing last week was sold as seeing the other QBs. It was really McAdoo laying the entire offense at the feet of Eli.
I  
AcidTest : 12/5/2017 8:42 pm : link
don't think Webb was a McAdoo pick. I think he was the best player on the Giants' board. Rightly or wrongly, several Giants scouts gave him a first round grade. Reese said he had the best arm of any QB in the draft, he had no character concerns, and loves football.

The Giants probably also thought they would do well enough this season that they would never be in a position to draft Rosen, Darnold, Jackson, or Allen. And with Eli declining, the wanted to start grooming his replacement this year.
Webb isn't ready.  
Red Dog : 12/5/2017 8:51 pm : link
He was a project from the very beginning. He has to learn to be a pro, he has to learn a pro offense (well, what is allegedly a pro offense), and he hasn't had a lot of practice reps either.

AcidTest is right. There's nothing to be learned from throwing this kid into a broken offense with a bunch of practice squad talent around him.

I don't expect to see him this season, and think it would be a major mistake unless it is in a blowout (one way or the other) situation. Let him come to camp next summer and see if he can step up.
RE: Spags wants to win the game...  
old man : 12/5/2017 10:07 pm : link
In comment 13726629 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
and thinks that he has a better chance with Eli starting and Geno backing him up than by starting an unproven rookie.

This is why I think it may have been a mistake to fire McAdoo and Reese at this point. Spags' best interest conflict with the orgs' best interest at this point, imo.


It may have been a mistake. The idea to play Webb was a sound idea given the season and a great opportunity to look towards the future.Messed up the Streak, why not put it to use somehow? Play Eli but in a blowout, bring in Webb.
Especially since Mara signed off on it.
Had Mara not signed off then Ben took it on his own to make the move.
A Step Further  
GiantTerp79 : 12/5/2017 10:19 pm : link
I'll give you some clarity. Webb is a Reese/McAdoo pick. A pick made by two people that were just fired for incompetence. Before anyone blasts me for kicking a longtime Giant when he's down, yes, Reese is a good guy, was a good scout, and a consummate professional, but he sucked as a GM. McAdoo was a shitty HC hire from the start. They picked this kid as a project to begin with, and we've all seen how Jerry's "projects" ended up. He won't see a snap this year unless Eli gets hurt. He will compete and lose for the #2 QB next year and he will Ryan Nassib his way off this team by the time his rookie deal is up. Our QB of the future is in this years draft. Webb will just represent another squandered pick by Reese.
Webb will never start a regular season game for the Giants.  
fivehead : 12/5/2017 10:29 pm : link
Book it.
None of this matters.  
CT Charlie : 12/5/2017 10:32 pm : link
We'll be lucky to win two games, and one would be a surprise. We're just not very good right now. Webb will play 5-6 series in the last two games. I'll bet they like Webb more than any of the 1st round QB's and we'll pick RB Barkley or G Nelson. Fans will explode, but it'll be a solid draft.
Webb aint seeing the field  
spike : 12/5/2017 10:38 pm : link
until preseason 2018, along with the new QB pick.
...  
christian : 12/5/2017 10:40 pm : link
The whole last 2 weeks have been a cluster. When things settle down a bit, Webb will get some reps in practice and get into a game.

Spags will not only want to show he can game plan and win, he'll want to show he can handle what the goof he's following couldn't -- how to get the back-ups into the game gracefully without wrecking the franchise.
RE: It's not the Giants way to tank the season for a lower pick,  
UberAlias : 12/6/2017 6:20 am : link
In comment 13726737 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
or to treat regular season games as pre-season, and tell the fans that they're not trying to win.

Webb was never supposed to play this season. This was supposed to be a watch-and-learn year. Suddenly they were abandoning that plan -- and the result was a huge mess and a PR debacle. So they're probably going back to the original plan. Webb doesn't even dress, but next summer he competes to be the backup.
I donít agree with this. The team waited until they were officially eliminated, but once they were the priorities shifted. Eli was benched and Mara asked to get young guys a look. Then cane the backlash and now itís back to being all about 2017. This is foolish. An ugly meaningless win or two wonít fix anything or restore confidence unless they win big, but we know thatís not going to happen. An ugly win or two that cost them draft position and possible shot st top QB prospect is the most you can expect.

As for Webb, you are correct this was supposed to be watch and learn. But the writing was on the wall before the bye week and they should have been preparing him then. Losses continued to mount and still no reps for Webb. Thatís flat out irresponsible that the team has been this bad for this long and zero focus on preparing the kid.

Major decision will need to be made. The new GM and HC will need to make crucial decisions about personnel before seeing the team in camp. They basically have no choice but to treat Webb as a non option because there is nothing to go by even with practice tape. If you have a shot at top prospect that doesnít matter because you draft the guy anyway. But even one win in last quarter of the season and we could miss out. There are 3 win teams who probably wonít win another game either. If you are not drafting #1 or #2, then Webb should be in the conversation. But at this point they have zero to go by. Thatís a huge blunder. You may see the team pass on a stud in in some other position in order to reach for a QB who may not be much better. But with no knowledge of Webb he just doesnít factor.
Mara  
PaulN : 12/6/2017 9:40 am : link
Wants to win now, anyone who thinks he is okay with losing the rest of the season is clueless, that may be what some fans want, but it is not what the owner wants, he made these changes now hoping they would get him a few wins this season. Did you listen to him? of did you hear what you want to hear.
McAdoo hitched his wagon to Geno  
JonC : 12/6/2017 9:42 am : link
in a move of desperation to save his job, not much else to decipher.

Webb's not ready to play in an NFL game with limited weapons and a mediocre OL.
Webb  
PaulN : 12/6/2017 9:43 am : link
Was never supposed to be a short term answer, getting him reps may do more harm in some peoples eyes, I don't think they have any intention to play Webb.
Any rookie QB going in now would have a very hard time  
PatersonPlank : 12/6/2017 9:46 am : link
Guys like Trubisky and Kizer are really struggling. It takes time, and a decent team around them
Look  
PaulN : 12/6/2017 9:48 am : link
At who we are playing, look at the stakes and think about all the injuries we have, if this team does turn around and win, then maybe McAdoo was a lot worse then we could even imagine, but unless that is the case, the Giants are lucky to win 1 more game this season, so relax already. The 49rs found a new and good starting QB, they have an easier schedule and should win at least another game or two. The Giants need to find out about some players, so let them under an entirely new regime now, I think it is a great time to learn about this team and some players, enjoy it, we got rid of the two bozo's.
why does Webb 'need' to play  
haper : 12/6/2017 11:49 am : link
This is a professional organization with scouts and talent evaluators with years of experience that have access to Webb 24/7 the past 9 months. Shouldn't they be able to gauge Webb's abilities without seeing him play in a few meaningless games behind a really bad offensive line?
RE: why does Webb 'need' to play  
Dan in the Springs : 12/6/2017 1:36 pm : link
In comment 13727523 haper said:
Quote:
This is a professional organization with scouts and talent evaluators with years of experience that have access to Webb 24/7 the past 9 months. Shouldn't they be able to gauge Webb's abilities without seeing him play in a few meaningless games behind a really bad offensive line?


Many of those people will not be here by the time the draft rolls around, so why not get some film on Webb for the incoming regime?
RE: why does Webb 'need' to play  
Matt M. : 12/6/2017 2:43 pm : link
In comment 13727523 haper said:
Quote:
This is a professional organization with scouts and talent evaluators with years of experience that have access to Webb 24/7 the past 9 months. Shouldn't they be able to gauge Webb's abilities without seeing him play in a few meaningless games behind a really bad offensive line?
Not when he hasn't even been taking significant snaps even in practice.
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