Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

Tom Rock: Davis Webb Moved Up To No. 2 Quarterback

Mr. Nickels : 12/5/2017 11:11 pm
Davis Webb Moved Up To No. 2 Quarterback
12/5:After not being active the previous week, New York Giants rookie quarterback Davis Webb has been made the No. 2 quarterback on the depth chart, according to Tom Rock of Newsday. He is expected to take more practice repetitions next week as the team prepares for a changing of the guard.
Davis Webb Moved Up To No. 2 Quarterback - ( New Window )
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
I would have to believe  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 12/6/2017 6:27 am : link
these are orders from the top.
RE: RE: RE: If Smith hadn't fumbled twice last week, and the Giants won,  
Boatie Warrant : 12/6/2017 6:30 am : link
In comment 13726988 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13726935 Tom in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 13726927 GeofromNJ said:


Quote:


would Webb still be #2? IMO, he should be, (Smith is hardly the future), but it may have been a tougher decision.



I believe they were trying to see if Smith could be the "bridge veteran QB" to either Webb or the 1st round draft pick next year...or even just a capable 2nd string to one of those choices for next season.

With Eli's cap number, and $5MM bonus due in March, they need to know what their options are.

Ideally, but maybe not likely, Webb shows he is a contender for the position, and somehow they convince Eli to stay for one more season to make for an easier transition...somehow though, I get the feeling that these last 4 games are Eli's last with the team.
As Peter King points out, his last 2 seasons have not been great, so do they really believe fixing the Oline will bring him back to championship level...at $25MM/season?



Imo, 🍔a💩 was trying to save his job and he was trying to prove that Eli was the issue. 🍔a💩 didn't give a shit about developing Webb for the future and didn't care about finding us a bridge to our next QB.


I agree with this 100%. It is the only logical reason to even keep Geno around. Not that much of anything this year has made sense.
Giants finally make the right move  
Jimmy Googs : 12/6/2017 6:50 am : link
12 weeks too late. Idiots.

Webb should have been #2 since August and all of these threads would have been completely different as to the what we needed to do next year.

Close the barn door after the cow walked away...
...  
christian : 12/6/2017 6:51 am : link
Spags has done in 2 days what Mcadoo couldn't achieve in weeks.

He's showing he has a brain, can read a situation, and can listen to his superiors. He's going to get a job somewhere after this.
This is why that Fucktard McApoo needed to be fired  
ZogZerg : 12/6/2017 6:58 am : link
after the San Fran game. He completely fucked the maturation of Webb, from the day he was drafted.
Tom in New York  
joeinpa : 12/6/2017 7:27 am : link
Geno a bridge for the youngsters, I think you are exactly right.

Which gives more clarity to the move.
Amazing how in a couple days  
Rjanyg : 12/6/2017 7:40 am : link
The right choices are being made.
Gary Meyers is on 106.7 in DC  
bradshaw44 : 12/6/2017 7:55 am : link
Right now discussing the Giants. Says Geno was Macs guy only. Also thinks McDaniels will be the Guy. He also thinks this is a strong QB draft. I disagree with the two latter points. And hope hes wrong on McDaniels.
RE: RE: RE: If Smith hadn't fumbled twice last week, and the Giants won,  
Gman11 : 12/6/2017 7:56 am : link
In comment 13726988 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:


Imo, 🍔a💩 was trying to save his job and he was trying to prove that Eli was the issue. 🍔a💩 didn't give a shit about developing Webb for the future and didn't care about finding us a bridge to our next QB.


I agree. If this whole fiasco was to get Webb practice reps (behind Smith), why didn't they start after the Thanksgiving Day game? They had a week and a half to get him some practice reps and he was still doing the scouting team thing. McAdoo just wanted to start somebody other than Eli.
Conclusion should be  
mattlawson : 12/6/2017 8:05 am : link
Without a better offensive line and WRs its going to be hard to put up points.
RE: LOL  
jvm52106 : 12/6/2017 8:15 am : link
In comment 13726925 Beezer said:
Quote:
Changing of the guard.


Yeah with this Oline, changing of the guard is a weekly thing...
RE: Gary Meyers is on 106.7 in DC  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 12/6/2017 8:17 am : link
In comment 13727056 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
Right now discussing the Giants. Says Geno was Macs guy only. Also thinks McDaniels will be the Guy. He also thinks this is a strong QB draft. I disagree with the two latter points. And hope he�s wrong on McDaniels.


Geno was apparently both Mac and Reese's guy but who knows at this point.
RE: RE: RE: If Smith hadn't fumbled twice last week, and the Giants won,  
jvm52106 : 12/6/2017 8:17 am : link
In comment 13726988 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13726935 Tom in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 13726927 GeofromNJ said:


Quote:


would Webb still be #2? IMO, he should be, (Smith is hardly the future), but it may have been a tougher decision.



I believe they were trying to see if Smith could be the "bridge veteran QB" to either Webb or the 1st round draft pick next year...or even just a capable 2nd string to one of those choices for next season.

With Eli's cap number, and $5MM bonus due in March, they need to know what their options are.

Ideally, but maybe not likely, Webb shows he is a contender for the position, and somehow they convince Eli to stay for one more season to make for an easier transition...somehow though, I get the feeling that these last 4 games are Eli's last with the team.
As Peter King points out, his last 2 seasons have not been great, so do they really believe fixing the Oline will bring him back to championship level...at $25MM/season?



Imo, 🍔a💩 was trying to save his job and he was trying to prove that Eli was the issue. 🍔a💩 didn't give a shit about developing Webb for the future and didn't care about finding us a bridge to our next QB.


This times a million... I said this all the way back in camp. Ben McAdoo saw the offense not doing well, knew the Oline was shit and since he couldn't throw Reese under the bus he took the one avenue he had and used Eli as his reason for the offense not playing well.. It didn't work!
Said this weeks ago. Once the season was done, after the horrendous  
map7711 : 12/6/2017 8:20 am : link
Start and the WRs all went down, Geno at that point became useless. He was an insurance policy for an Eli injury and we had SB aspirations. Once the thought of being a playoff team was over, Webb needed to be #2 and Geno shown the door. He was never going to be the future. Again just an insurance policy if this team was good and Eli went down for a stretch. Not understanding the situation of that, speaks volumes about McAdoo.
McDaniels  
jvm52106 : 12/6/2017 8:25 am : link
could easily be BB part 2. He had too much power with the Broncos at a young age. He clearly has learned from it and he is one smart Offensive guy. If we do not get McDaniels I am open to three other candidates:

1) Mike Vrabel- I said this in another thread, he is a guy who command respect immediately. He is not that long removed from the field so knows the league well, the players and is a nice fill between Vets and younger players as he can related to both. He was a guy who did a lot of things on the field - LB, DE, TE) and just seemed like a coach on the field. He learned a ton from BB.

2) John Gruden- I know, I know, but he can turn this around quickly. Anyone clamoring for Marvin Lewis while stating Gruden's overall record as some negative needs to have their head examined.

3) Jason Garrett- if he were to be let go by the Boys he would be a great choice! ** I wouldn't be surprised if the boys let him go...

RE: RE: If Smith hadn't fumbled twice last week, and the Giants won,  
NorwoodWideRight : 12/6/2017 8:34 am : link
In comment 13726935 Tom in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13726927 GeofromNJ said:


Quote:


would Webb still be #2? IMO, he should be, (Smith is hardly the future), but it may have been a tougher decision.



I believe they were trying to see if Smith could be the "bridge veteran QB" to either Webb or the 1st round draft pick next year...or even just a capable 2nd string to one of those choices for next season.

With Eli's cap number, and $5MM bonus due in March, they need to know what their options are.

Ideally, but maybe not likely, Webb shows he is a contender for the position, and somehow they convince Eli to stay for one more season to make for an easier transition...somehow though, I get the feeling that these last 4 games are Eli's last with the team.
As Peter King points out, his last 2 seasons have not been great, so do they really believe fixing the Oline will bring him back to championship level...at $25MM/season?


Agree with this 100%, it's the only thing that makes sense and why I think Eli will probably be gone next year. I say probably because the Giants got caught with their hand in the cookie jar trying to "bridge" Geno on the cheap and there's still a slim chance they retain Eli while grooming Webb/Mystery QB from the draft. Until Spags was appointed HC and word came out that Eli would start, I was definite on Eli's release.
Agree...  
Doomster : 12/6/2017 8:37 am : link
this should have happen when they were 0-5
larryflower37 : 12:15 am : link : reply
Webb could have been in at the end of the Seattle and Rams game etc.
Ben and Jerry real messed this up
RE: Said this weeks ago. Once the season was done, after the horrendous  
AcidTest : 12/6/2017 8:45 am : link
In comment 13727087 map7711 said:
Quote:
Start and the WRs all went down, Geno at that point became useless. He was an insurance policy for an Eli injury and we had SB aspirations. Once the thought of being a playoff team was over, Webb needed to be #2 and Geno shown the door. He was never going to be the future. Again just an insurance policy if this team was good and Eli went down for a stretch. Not understanding the situation of that, speaks volumes about McAdoo.


^This. Geno was a guy who might credibly step in if Eli got hurt for a few games, but wasn't out for the season. With the offensive weapons, and a defense that was supposedly strong, Geno could be a "game manager" for a few games until Eli returned. Once that was no longer an option, Webb should have been moved to #2, and Geno released.
...  
christian : 12/6/2017 8:58 am : link
Smith got the call because McAdoo blew the situation and it was too late in the week and too unfair to put anything on Webb.

The only sensible plan was and is to rotate Smith and Webb as the backup.

But let's be real, no one is analyzing Smith for any role outside of number 2 next year. Playing Smith only is, was and will be to analyze Manning.
I don't want McDaniels  
Victor in CT : 12/6/2017 9:04 am : link
no thanks.

Too much being made of Webb. He's being hyped because Reese was dumb enough to trade up for him and claim they had a 1st round grade on him.

Lorenzen, Bomar, Nassib, Webb. NEXT!
Mr Acid ...  
Spider56 : 12/6/2017 9:04 am : link
I fully agree ... we saw enough in the preseason to know Geno was not going to suddenly be a star. Once the Giants were out of it in early October, any snaps he got in practice were a waste. Webb should have been moving towards number 2 since that point forward
Garrett would NOT be a great choice.  
Victor in CT : 12/6/2017 9:06 am : link
please.
RE: ...  
NorwoodWideRight : 12/6/2017 9:08 am : link
In comment 13727153 christian said:
Quote:
Smith got the call because McAdoo blew the situation and it was too late in the week and too unfair to put anything on Webb.

The only sensible plan was and is to rotate Smith and Webb as the backup.

But let's be real, no one is analyzing Smith for any role outside of number 2 next year. Playing Smith only is, was and will be to analyze Manning.


That's your opinion, and there are several different opinions floating around. That doesn't make any of them, including the one I believe in, fact.
What does it say about McAdoo that when he felt the pressure  
Chris684 : 12/6/2017 9:18 am : link
of his offense sucking, rather than sit down with a 2-time SB MVP veteran who had started 200+ games in a row AND his coordinator (Sullivan) who has been around for his greatest success, and try to figure out what HE could do differently as head coach to get the best out of him, he placed his career survival squarely on the back of Geno Smith?

McAdoo had 2 possible ways to come back from the dead.

Eli Manning or Davis Webb.

And he chose Geno Smith.
Whew!!  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/6/2017 9:24 am : link
Thank God. I'd been worried about getting McDaniels until reading this!!

Quote:
Gary Meyers is on 106.7 in DC
bradshaw44 : 7:55 am : link : reply
Right now discussing the Giants. Says Geno was Macs guy only. Also thinks McDaniels will be the Guy. He also thinks this is a strong QB draft. I disagree with the two latter points. And hope hes wrong on McDaniels.

Typical white men's logic  
Bob in Newburgh : 12/6/2017 9:29 am : link
Geno arguably plays as well as Eli with a lot less preparation and is demoted.
not clear  
Les in TO : 12/6/2017 9:32 am : link
if they are planning to play him at all during the last three weeks or if it just means he's going to be active and get the experience of having his helmet and pads on for game day.
Spags reinstated Eli out of racism?  
Bill L : 12/6/2017 9:34 am : link
.
RE: RE: Gary Meyers is on 106.7 in DC  
BillKo : 12/6/2017 9:40 am : link
In comment 13727083 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
In comment 13727056 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


Right now discussing the Giants. Says Geno was Macs guy only. Also thinks McDaniels will be the Guy. He also thinks this is a strong QB draft. I disagree with the two latter points. And hope he�s wrong on McDaniels.



Geno was apparently both Mac and Reese's guy but who knows at this point.


Oh I can't believe that......this is now piling on the guy. But if it's true, both deservedly were fired.
RE: Typical white men's logic  
yankeeslover : 12/6/2017 9:50 am : link
In comment 13727228 Bob in Newburgh said:
Quote:
Geno arguably plays as well as Eli with a lot less preparation and is demoted.


I assume this is a joke right?
McDaniels does have alot of NFL  
mrvax : 12/6/2017 10:01 am : link
experience for such a young guy. He's been under HC's such as Belichick & Saban for a long time.
Oh no...  
Dan in the Springs : 12/6/2017 10:01 am : link
how will Giants fans and Eli react when/if Webb gets inserted into a game? Imagine this - the Giants, held to a field goal on a short field and 48 yards of total offense in the first half, although there were dropped balls and untimely penalties, pull Eli and insert Webb. Webb goes on to have a miserable half himself and the Giants ultimately lose the game in blowout fashion.

The next week, Eli starts the game and we have a repeat performance in the first half.

What will happen then?

Just like this year to take what was already a big mess and extend it and make it messier.
RE: Typical white men's logic  
jbeintherockies : 12/6/2017 10:05 am : link
In comment 13727228 Bob in Newburgh said:
Quote:
Geno arguably plays as well as Eli with a lot less preparation and is demoted.

Geno did play pretty well, IMO.

But he is not the future of the franchise. He is a really good backup; I don't think he is a starter. Keep in mind, as defenses get more tape on a QB in his respective offense, things seem to get a lot harder for that QB as the season progresses. I think Geno will have a job in the NFL next year.

Throughout the season, it DID make sense to give Geno all of the second string snaps. He was one injury away from starting and it seemed clear to me that Davis simply wasn't ready.

At this point they are 2-10. The Giants really need to see what they have with their third round pick. These last four games would be a good time to do that. I expect Eli to start the games with Davis coming into the game in a cleanup role at first. Although, the Giants have been in most games. So I'm not sure exactly how they are going to work Davis in.
Eli should start this week  
Jay on the Island : 12/6/2017 10:10 am : link
and maybe next week but then Webb should be given a chance to show case his skills. I am still all in on a QB in the first round but Webb could prove that he may be able to compete for the starting job next season if Eli is gone.
RE: not clear  
Matt M. : 12/6/2017 10:11 am : link
In comment 13727232 Les in TO said:
Quote:
if they are planning to play him at all during the last three weeks or if it just means he's going to be active and get the experience of having his helmet and pads on for game day.
Well, it also means he will start taking snaps in practice.
RE: Eli should start this week  
BillKo : 12/6/2017 10:16 am : link
In comment 13727313 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
and maybe next week but then Webb should be given a chance to show case his skills. I am still all in on a QB in the first round but Webb could prove that he may be able to compete for the starting job next season if Eli is gone.


At this point, I'd agree. Esp with the streak broken, and I think Eli would actually agree to it.

But this is where BM really screwed up, and where I talk about forward thinking. He was more worried about trying to "flip the script" and "go on a run"....where you realized this team wasn't capable due to the injuries and horrid start.

Webb should have been worked in gradually every week. Instead, they waited until now. That's on BM.
RE: RE: Eli should start this week  
BillKo : 12/6/2017 10:17 am : link
In comment 13727327 BillKo said:
Quote:
In comment 13727313 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


and maybe next week but then Webb should be given a chance to show case his skills. I am still all in on a QB in the first round but Webb could prove that he may be able to compete for the starting job next season if Eli is gone.



At this point, I'd agree. Esp with the streak broken, and I think Eli would actually agree to it.

But this is where BM really screwed up, and where I talk about forward thinking. He was more worried about trying to "flip the script" and "go on a run"....where you realized this team wasn't capable due to the injuries and horrid start.

Webb should have been worked in gradually every week. Instead, they waited until now. That's on BM.


And when I say worked in gradually, I don't mean playing time. I mean responsibilities in practice where he moved up to the #2 and would have been ready, to at least function in the offense, at this point in the season.
Would it make sense  
mrvax : 12/6/2017 10:24 am : link
to tell Eli about their desire to evaluate Webb a bit, even to just get his feet wet, and ask Manning what he'd be OK with?
Sit down with Eli and put a plan together to get Webb some time  
PatersonPlank : 12/6/2017 10:27 am : link
Why is this so difficult? Why couldn't the arrogant McAdoo do this.
RE: Typical white men's logic  
djm : 12/6/2017 10:32 am : link
In comment 13727228 Bob in Newburgh said:
Quote:
Geno arguably plays as well as Eli with a lot less preparation and is demoted.


bullshit bullshit bullshit and more bullshit.

Does Eli average two fumbles lost every game?

Sell bullshit elsewhere we're all stocked up here.

Geno Smith isn't as good as Eli Manning. We have about 30 fucking starts to go on with Geno over the years. Please...stop.

I keep reading "if geno didn't fumble twice"---that's just it! Geno ALWAYS fucks games away. It's what he does! Stop over thinking this.
Funny that the team had little trouble  
RollBlue : 12/6/2017 10:35 am : link
scoring points in the 2015 season with a similar O-Line. Yes Dallas couldn't score points with their line when Romo and Dez went down that same year. It's much more than the O-Line.
RE: I don't want McDaniels  
HomerJones45 : 12/6/2017 10:37 am : link
In comment 13727162 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
no thanks.

Too much being made of Webb. He's being hyped because Reese was dumb enough to trade up for him and claim they had a 1st round grade on him.

Lorenzen, Bomar, Nassib, Webb. NEXT!
Yep. Long-term project. This "heir and successor" talk was nonsense. Webb will compete with our #1 pick and probably end up cut or inactive every game- another Reese draft screw up.
do people here actually follow football? In case the Geno boosters  
Victor in CT : 12/6/2017 10:40 am : link
don't know, HE HAS A FUCKING TRACK RECORD!. ON TAPE! On the field and off. He's not an unknown commodity. He's a strong, athletic, dumb as a brick turnover machine who is a locker room problem (see punch in the jaw over a a debt to a teammate).

Then just to reinforce it, he fumbles twice during the game, then after it stupidly makes the presser about his spat with Rex Ryan AND says he saw it because of "the time change". Only people dumber than him are those who think he's a legitimate solution at QB for the Giants or any other team with serious aspirations of contending.
RE: RE: I don't want McDaniels  
Bill L : 12/6/2017 10:47 am : link
In comment 13727375 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 13727162 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


no thanks.

Too much being made of Webb. He's being hyped because Reese was dumb enough to trade up for him and claim they had a 1st round grade on him.

Lorenzen, Bomar, Nassib, Webb. NEXT!

Yep. Long-term project. This "heir and successor" talk was nonsense. Webb will compete with our #1 pick and probably end up cut or inactive every game- another Reese draft screw up.
I don't think it was a screw up at all. They needed to develop a QB. At the time they drafted him, they needed to plan for Eli's retirement. At the time they drafted him, they felt that they had 3 years of top production from Eli (it's still there for them or some other team, IMO) and that the team they had in place would compete in the playoffs. That put a draft position in the high teens at best and more likely in the low to mid-twenties. You're not going to be able to pick a top-flight QB at that point, so the most sensible strategy is to pick (perhaps an undervalued) a guy , probably in successive years and try to develop him. There's little other choice.

That calculus had to change in the last few weeks when it became clear that a franchise QB draft pick was not only reachable but likely. The most logical thing at that point was to discard the idea of Webb...perhaps you develop him as a back-up or potential trade-bait. Either way, they shouldn't have spent much effort on him, although more effort than they should have spent on Geno.

At this point, nobody should really be mentioning Webb's name for anything substantive. That was a good pick given the circumstances at the time; but circumstances have changed.
not geno boosters  
giantfan2000 : 12/6/2017 11:10 am : link
but making the point that Geno who has a mediocre track record
came in last week with a media circus around him and a week of preparation
and OUT PLAYED ELI MANNING last performance

it isn't Geno boosters
it is pointing out the in fact Eli might be DONE!
Finally  
jeff57 : 12/6/2017 11:21 am : link
.
What a horrible lack of data analysis  
Bill L : 12/6/2017 11:39 am : link
Besides the fact that there is a different opponent, you'd have to throw out Engram's performance because part of the difference in stats depends on his ability to hold onto the ball. Beyond that, randomly picking a single game for comparison is specious. Truth is, you can't make any conclusion whatsoever about who is done or not. You can't make that claim in a vacuum; done implies that there was a different level of performance (i.e., not done), under the same conditions.
What a horrible lack of data analysis  
giantfan2000 : 12/6/2017 12:52 pm : link
well you can say that about Geno as well
he played one game .. and now back on the bench even though he did as well as Eli has lately
RE: RE: RE: I don't want McDaniels  
mrvax : 12/6/2017 1:43 pm : link
In comment 13727399 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13727375 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


In comment 13727162 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


no thanks.

Too much being made of Webb. He's being hyped because Reese was dumb enough to trade up for him and claim they had a 1st round grade on him.

Lorenzen, Bomar, Nassib, Webb. NEXT!

Yep. Long-term project. This "heir and successor" talk was nonsense. Webb will compete with our #1 pick and probably end up cut or inactive every game- another Reese draft screw up.

I don't think it was a screw up at all. They needed to develop a QB. At the time they drafted him, they needed to plan for Eli's retirement. At the time they drafted him, they felt that they had 3 years of top production from Eli (it's still there for them or some other team, IMO) and that the team they had in place would compete in the playoffs. That put a draft position in the high teens at best and more likely in the low to mid-twenties. You're not going to be able to pick a top-flight QB at that point, so the most sensible strategy is to pick (perhaps an undervalued) a guy , probably in successive years and try to develop him. There's little other choice.

That calculus had to change in the last few weeks when it became clear that a franchise QB draft pick was not only reachable but likely. The most logical thing at that point was to discard the idea of Webb...perhaps you develop him as a back-up or potential trade-bait. Either way, they shouldn't have spent much effort on him, although more effort than they should have spent on Geno.

At this point, nobody should really be mentioning Webb's name for anything substantive. That was a good pick given the circumstances at the time; but circumstances have changed.



Nice post, Bill.
RE: RE: Eli should start this week  
Jay on the Island : 12/6/2017 1:55 pm : link
In comment 13727327 BillKo said:
Quote:
In comment 13727313 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


and maybe next week but then Webb should be given a chance to show case his skills. I am still all in on a QB in the first round but Webb could prove that he may be able to compete for the starting job next season if Eli is gone.



At this point, I'd agree. Esp with the streak broken, and I think Eli would actually agree to it.

But this is where BM really screwed up, and where I talk about forward thinking. He was more worried about trying to "flip the script" and "go on a run"....where you realized this team wasn't capable due to the injuries and horrid start.

Webb should have been worked in gradually every week. Instead, they waited until now. That's on BM.

This is what pissed me off the most about ending the streak. We know that Geno Smith isn't an option as the future starting QB. Webb should have been elevated to the #2 spot after they were 0-5. Webb would have received significantly more reps in practice. If they ended the streak because they wanted to see how Webb performs then the backlash would have been much less. It would be hard for Webb to succeed due to the lack of weapons and the poor play of the offensive line but he could still flash at times.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner