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‘Giants guy’ could be a fit for vacant general manager job

Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/6/2017 8:41 am
Article by Paul Schwartz on possible next GM...
‘Giants guy’ could be a fit for vacant general manager job - ( New Window )
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We just had an outside guy  
Chris684 : 12/6/2017 9:29 am : link
and how did that work out?

He thought this was Green Bay east and that magically Aaron Rodgers was going to run out of the tunnel at MetLife one of these weeks!

And yes, I understand he was promoted internally, but he had only been here for 2 seasons prior and clearly didnt want any part of the system he adapted to here as coordinator.

GM or HC, let's get the best men for the job.
RE: Victor...  
Diver_Down : 12/6/2017 9:29 am : link
In comment 13727128 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Gettleman had let a couple of vets go (like DeAngelo Williams) and team distractions.

He had ownership's blessing to get rid of Josh Norman, but when he started looking into moving Thomas Davis and Greg olsen, Jerry Richardson stepped in and told him no. Richardson already was unhappy that Williams left, and now Gettleman was looking at moving two of his favorite players.

They pretty much railroaded him out of town and he was doing a decent job.


Fats, you being local to the Panthers area, provides as close to an insiders view of the Gettleman's actions while in Carolina. As you wrote above, there are no sacred cows when it comes to Gettleman. If he can get positive value from a player, he isn't afraid to do it.

I know the idea isn't popular here on BBI. But if Gettleman was to take the job, he would insist on having total control of the roster. Mara in his PC said that he prefers to keep the coaching and GM roles separate. He expects coaches to coach and the GM to build the roster. I wouldn't be shocked to see OBJ moved in a trade. Mara pointed out in the Michael Kay interview that he sat down with OBJ and shown him a picture of his dog-urinating portrayal and asked him if he wants that to be his legacy. Perhaps, I'm reading too much into it, but it seems to me that Mara is tiring of having to have these sit-downs with OBJ.

If OBJ were able to return a 1st and 2nd and perhaps next year's 2nd, then those picks can go a long way in patching up the holes on the roster while not having to commit financial resources to a single player.
I have to believe that Gettleman has a real shot  
gidiefor : Mod : 12/6/2017 9:31 am : link
at this
Gettleman could have handled things more gently  
Banks : 12/6/2017 9:40 am : link
but getting rid of Williams and Smith were the right moves. It saved a lot of money and those guys were out of the NFL 2 and 3 years later, respectively.
Giants hiring philosophy  
jbeintherockies : 12/6/2017 9:43 am : link
Hire who you know. Less risk that way.
I agree diver, the new GM has to have George Young-like power  
Victor in CT : 12/6/2017 9:48 am : link
No ownership interference.
I don't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/6/2017 9:52 am : link
even know if it is necessary to have a GM run everything without ownership input.

Basically, we need a guy who will build us a competitive team. It could be as simple as overhauling the OL like the Rams and Vikings did in 1 year, or it could be having to upgrade several positions, draft a new QB and have all the pieces fit together.

For me, the important part is not having a coach with a rigid system that needs specific skill sets to succeed. We need a guy with foresight and strategic vision.
RE: We just had an outside guy  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/6/2017 9:57 am : link
In comment 13727226 Chris684 said:
Quote:
and how did that work out?

He thought this was Green Bay east and that magically Aaron Rodgers was going to run out of the tunnel at MetLife one of these weeks!

And yes, I understand he was promoted internally, but he had only been here for 2 seasons prior and clearly didnt want any part of the system he adapted to here as coordinator.

GM or HC, let's get the best men for the job.

He was no more of an outside guy than Coughlin was when he was hired as HC.
Right...I didnt bring it up to say we shouldnt get an outside guy  
Chris684 : 12/6/2017 9:58 am : link
That's my whole point. Get the best man for the job regardless of how previously connected to the franchise he may or may not be.
Coughlin..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/6/2017 10:04 am : link
did have a SB ring with the Giants before coming here- so technically he has three with us.

I've just seen the term that we don't let strangers in the house used often these past couple of weeks. Maybe it is coming from the same posters, but regardless, it is pretty disingenuous and off the mark.
Don't really  
ryanmkeane : 12/6/2017 10:13 am : link
know what it is, but I'd be disappointed with Gettleman. Just doesn't seem exciting, although he didn't have all world drafts in Carolina, they were pretty good all things considered.
I'd be on board with Gettleman  
mikeinbloomfield : 12/6/2017 10:14 am : link
if the only knocks against him is he was "too direct" and one of the dumbest owners in the league didn't like him getting rid of his favorite players.

There are no perfect candidates for GM. Teams are not going to let successful GMs go. What you're left with is guys who fails for one reason or another but still could be successful elsewhere, and guys who have never been a GM before. Either way, its a gamble
RE: We just had an outside guy  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 12/6/2017 10:15 am : link
In comment 13727226 Chris684 said:
Quote:
and how did that work out?

He thought this was Green Bay east and that magically Aaron Rodgers was going to run out of the tunnel at MetLife one of these weeks!

And yes, I understand he was promoted internally, but he had only been here for 2 seasons prior and clearly didnt want any part of the system he adapted to here as coordinator.

GM or HC, let's get the best men for the job.


I mean he came in and coached for Coughlin, before getting the Head Coaching position when Coughlin resigned. So that was an in house hire.
Wasnt Gettleman the GM  
gmen9892 : 12/6/2017 10:19 am : link
That built Carolina into a SB team? I would not hate having him back. He made some (or was trying to make some) shrewd business moves, which need to be made from time to time. The players didnt like him because of this and the owner had to step in. I dont hate that this is the type of GM he is.
RE: Wasnt Gettleman the GM  
Greg from LI : 12/6/2017 10:20 am : link
In comment 13727332 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
That built Carolina into a SB team?


He was the GM when they went, but virtually all of their key talent was already there - Newton, Keuchely, Norman, etc.
This narrative  
ryanmkeane : 12/6/2017 10:22 am : link
that a guy who hasn't worked for the Giants before can't be successful as GM is complete nonsense. Just because we brought in McAdoo and it didn't work out, has absolutely nothing to do with who we hire next.

Hire the best guy for the job. If that is Gettleman, so be it. If it is a young guy like Caserio or Wolf, I'm on board too.

What I don't want is the Giants to just hire a guy because they are "familiar" with him.
Gettleman was..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/6/2017 10:23 am : link
the GM when the Panthers went to the SB, but he didn't really build that team. Then the next year they were under .500

He inherited a cap mess and was able to clean it up and the roster is fairly strong and his drafts were decent.

Based on his football decisions, he did a good job. If the biggest knock was he was too direct and brusque, then I don't put much stock in that. Those qualities were pointed to as positives when he was hired - the "New York attitude" they kept referring to it as.
I just would rather not have anyone who was a part  
Greg from LI : 12/6/2017 10:23 am : link
of the Accorsi-Reese-Coughlin era.
Mara knows  
ryanmkeane : 12/6/2017 10:23 am : link
he has absolutely zero room for error here, especially ushering in the next GM/HC combo post Eli era. If he picks a guy just because he knows him, and he's not necessarily the best candidate, that would be a mistake.
RE: Wasnt Gettleman the GM  
arcarsenal : 12/6/2017 10:23 am : link
In comment 13727332 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
That built Carolina into a SB team? I would not hate having him back. He made some (or was trying to make some) shrewd business moves, which need to be made from time to time. The players didnt like him because of this and the owner had to step in. I dont hate that this is the type of GM he is.


Most of the players who were keys to that 15-1 team were brought on board by the prior regime. I'm not sure how much credit Gettleman really deserves for it.

He made some good moves - but he really didn't build that team.
RE: I just would rather not have anyone who was a part  
ryanmkeane : 12/6/2017 10:25 am : link
In comment 13727343 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
of the Accorsi-Reese-Coughlin era.

I'm with you there Greg. I'm more interested in guys like Caserio/Wolf/DeCosta/Paton
My ideal  
ryanmkeane : 12/6/2017 10:29 am : link
scenario is Caserio/McDaniels.
Tend to think they want a younger GM  
JonC : 12/6/2017 10:29 am : link
who might be part of the foundation for awhile, NYG is big on continuity and loyalty.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/6/2017 10:32 am : link
I want Caserio - I just am not thrilled that it means McDaniels almost certainly comes with him. The Patriots assistants always make me nervous.

I'd prefer McDaniels to Patricia by a pretty wide margin, though.
Waht I don't like..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/6/2017 10:34 am : link
about McDaniels is that you're gambling a whole lot on him having a different outcome than he did in Denver.

It's one thing if he seems like a can't miss guy with a huge upside, but I just don't see it with him. Seems like you get a lot of risks with not much better chance at hitting on greatness.

There were several aspects of his time in Denver being a trainwreck, from personnel decisions to communication issues. That's a lot to correct. Plus, you always have the spector that BB's assistants haven't been able to translate success under him with success being the top guy hanging in the shadows
Gettleman doesn't deserve credit for building their SB team  
Banks : 12/6/2017 10:37 am : link
but he made some good moves and his drafts were good imo.

2013 NFL Draft
Star Lotulelei
Kawann Short
Edmund Kugbila
A.J. Klein
Kenjon Barner

2014 NFL Draft
Kelvin Benjamin
Kony Ealy
Trai Turner
Tre Boston
Bené Benwikere
Tyler Gaffney

2015 NFL Draft
Shaq Thompson
Devin Funchess
Daryl Williams
David Mayo
Cameron Artis-Payne

2016 NFL Draft
Vernon Butler
James Bradberry
Daryl Worley
Zack Sanchez
Beau Sandland

I'm not advocating the guy, but he knows his stuff. He just appears to be very direct in a way that is off putting to some. Given his previous employment here, I'd expect that to be less of a problem if he were hired.
I really don't want McDaniels  
Greg from LI : 12/6/2017 10:41 am : link
But I suppose you could take the point of view that a lot of his problems stemmed from his GM moves (I still can't believe Denver gave a 34 year old assistant coach who had never even been a head coach at any level absolute control over football operations). If he doesn't have those powers, which he wouldn't with the Giants, perhaps he would be much better?

I don't know. I'm just trying to talk myself off the ledge because I'm getting the sinking feeling that he's the guy they want.
McDaniels definitely displayed a lot of warts in Denver  
JonC : 12/6/2017 10:43 am : link
and an overall plan of attack that revealed his inexperience in terms of being ready to be a head coach. Doesn't leave me confident either ...
RE: So much for a fresh start  
Tesla : 12/6/2017 10:43 am : link
In comment 13727148 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I'm already resigning myself to the notion that Marc Ross is going to survive.


Survive? You better just hope he doesn't get promoted!
count me as a "no" on McDaniels too.  
Victor in CT : 12/6/2017 10:44 am : link
too risky
This article was..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/6/2017 10:45 am : link
posted the other day and I had previously posted it before - but it sums up the Gettleman situation pretty well.

A couple of key quotes from it:
Quote:
Gettleman worked hard to keep analytics at the heart of his personnel decisions and emotions out of them. He would get nervous if several days went by and he hadn’t watched film on anybody, because he knew that film evaluation was his biggest strength. (It’s worth noting Hurney said he planned to be more analytical and less emotional this week when he was introduced Wednesday as Gettleman’s interim replacement.)

In his first long conversation with Rivera in 2013, Gettleman told the coach he was interested in four things above all else – collaboration, constant communication, “brutal” honesty and “being able to make the tough decisions.”

With Gettleman taking over a roster that was $16 million over the salary cap, he had tough decisions to make.

That meant some uncomfortable conversations, such as those with team leaders Jon Beason and Jordan Gross about taking pay cuts. Those discussions with players and agents weren’t always handled delicately.


Quote:
Former Panthers GM Bill Polian, who once hired Gettleman as a scout in Buffalo, said in 2013 Gettleman was well respected in the Bills organization for his thoroughness and the specificity of his scouting reports.

“When you’re dealing with analysis and facts, it’s a lot easier to have a conversation than with someone saying, ‘I like this guy.’ It’s a marked difference,” Polian told the Observer shortly after Gettleman was hired by Carolina. “He doesn’t deal in clichés. He deals in straight-down-the-line, factual analysis.”


Basically those traits were considered good until they were used on the owner's favorite players. There are a lot of signs that Jerry Richardson has declined mentally since having a heart transplant several years ago, and from what I've heard from the inside there - it seems to be true - but he's still very much in charge, even firing one of his sons in past years. Yet, it was Gettleman's cut throat style that got him fired???
Gettleman Fired - ( New Window )
Fat Man  
ryanmkeane : 12/6/2017 10:47 am : link
we can all agree (i think) That Gettleman is a very good football guy, certainly knows his shit. Most likely a good evaluator of talent based on his past. My thinking is that a near 70 year old GM isn't exactly a great move.
I wouldn't do cartwheels..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/6/2017 10:56 am : link
for Gettleman, but I wouldn't go around breaking shit, either. And I can see a situation where he and Abrahms would make a good team - and don't sleep on Abrahms, he's highly thought of.

I'm more or less trying to provide context on his dismissal from Carolina.
RE: I really never understand..  
Matt in SGS : 12/6/2017 10:58 am : link
In comment 13727211 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the idea we don't let "strangers in the house". A lot of people we brought in cut their teeth elsewhere. And this really doesn't deviate from the hiring patterns of many teams.

Accorsi wasn't with the giants until 1994, coming from the Colts and Browns. Parcells had been in the college ranks until coming to the Giants in 79 (briefly), and then back in 81. Other than playing for Tom Landry, Dan Reeves had no ties to NY. Fassel was briefly here in 91-92 but did his work in college developing players and then was OC in a couple of stops. And Mac came from GB before being OC.

It isn't like a lot of these guys were bleeding Giant blue their entire lives and were willed the positions by death.


Fatman,

Accorsi wasn't an unknown. He was with George Young when they both were with the Colts in the 1970s. And Accorsi was in Cleveland at a time when Art Modell was one of Wellington Mara's close friends, essentially nearly the Steelers when it came to ownership familiarity who weren't literally family members.

Reeves didn't have Giants ties, but the Giants lost out on their first two options and he got backed by Frank Gifford, so in essence, Mara took the word of a prized former Giant.

As you noted, Fassel and McAdoo both spent time in the organization as coordinators.

Even when they were looking at Saban, they still had the ties of Modell and Belichick (with Accorsi's knowledge of Cleveland).

The Maras rarely stray too far from what they know. It's just how they do things.
Using that logic..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/6/2017 11:03 am : link
and the fact that the Mara's have relationships with a lot of owners, and you can find tie backs almost everywhere.

But here's the thing - almost every team goes with that philosophy. Rarely is a person brought in with absolutely no ties to an organization.

The Giants have a tradition of making safer choices, but their ties to the organization often are not that strong or have to be explained through some convoluted reasoning.
RE: Gettleman doesn't deserve credit for building their SB team  
Breeze_94 : 12/6/2017 11:03 am : link
In comment 13727374 Banks said:
Quote:
but he made some good moves and his drafts were good imo.

2013 NFL Draft
Star Lotulelei
Kawann Short
Edmund Kugbila
A.J. Klein
Kenjon Barner

2014 NFL Draft
Kelvin Benjamin
Kony Ealy
Trai Turner
Tre Boston
Bené Benwikere
Tyler Gaffney

2015 NFL Draft
Shaq Thompson
Devin Funchess
Daryl Williams
David Mayo
Cameron Artis-Payne

2016 NFL Draft
Vernon Butler
James Bradberry
Daryl Worley
Zack Sanchez
Beau Sandland

I'm not advocating the guy, but he knows his stuff. He just appears to be very direct in a way that is off putting to some. Given his previous employment here, I'd expect that to be less of a problem if he were hired.


Looks like he has a penchant for drafting Big receivers like Plaxico was when he was here
Accorsi was consulting for Carolina when they hired Gettleman  
Ira : 12/6/2017 11:04 am : link
.
RE: Mara knows  
81_Great_Dane : 12/6/2017 11:10 am : link
In comment 13727344 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
he has absolutely zero room for error here, especially ushering in the next GM/HC combo post Eli era. If he picks a guy just because he knows him, and he's not necessarily the best candidate, that would be a mistake.
I get what you're saying, but it's not like the team will fold or no one will watch the games if he makes a mistake. The team would bad or mediocre for a while, until the new guy(s) get canned, then another guy would get a chance. That's bad, but it happens. That's sports. Teams get bad. GMs and coaches don't pan out. Building a consistent winner is hard.

McAdoo face-planted. Reese looked like a genius at first but proved a better scout than GM. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Personally, I'm tired of watching mediocre-to-bad teams, so I'm hoping the next guys do a lot better. But the Giants will survive regardless.
RE: Using that logic..  
Matt in SGS : 12/6/2017 11:10 am : link
In comment 13727425 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
and the fact that the Mara's have relationships with a lot of owners, and you can find tie backs almost everywhere.

But here's the thing - almost every team goes with that philosophy. Rarely is a person brought in with absolutely no ties to an organization.

The Giants have a tradition of making safer choices, but their ties to the organization often are not that strong or have to be explained through some convoluted reasoning.


Well, one problem that can be pointed out here, is Coughlin didn't do a great job at all at creating a coaching tree. For a successful head coach for a long time in the NFL, and 12 years with the Giants, he's hardly in the Bill Walsh/Bill Parcells class of a coaching tree.

The Giants recognized that by bringing in McAdoo because they didn't have any young coaches being brought along to potentially tab after Coughlin left, and even in the situation now.

The only names we've seen were Mike Sullivan (no thanks), and Matt Rhule, who did a really nice job at Temple only to take over the mess in Baylor and go 1-11. Even Spags really cut his teeth in Philly as a Jim Johnson assistant.

So the Giants will almost be forced to go outside their comfort zone to bring in a new coach. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
RE: RE: Using that logic..  
Jay on the Island : 12/6/2017 11:19 am : link
In comment 13727445 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:


So the Giants will almost be forced to go outside their comfort zone to bring in a new coach. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

I think this is exactly what this team needs.
when i first saw the title of this thread before  
Les in TO : 12/6/2017 11:24 am : link
coffee this morning, I thought it said license plate guy could be a fit for the vacant GM job. that would be something!
Why've would anyone want Mcdaniels?  
Thunderstruck27 : 12/6/2017 12:09 pm : link
We just had a coach that owed any career success to a great qb. I don't want another one. Unless we get Brady in the deal
Marc Ross probably stays, at least until after the draft.  
Ivan15 : 12/6/2017 12:13 pm : link
A new GM won’t have time to restructure scouting so We may find out if Ross does a bad scouting job or if Reese doesn’t listen to him.
Problem is Ross would be leaned on  
Simms11 : 12/6/2017 12:52 pm : link
to help make decisions! Ugh
Gettleman  
Unemployable : 12/6/2017 12:54 pm : link
will be the guy. After all that happened this year Mara probably wants someone he knows, someone who won’t shake things up in the front office/scouting dept. I also think if John Fox gets fired, he’s the head coach. Change, but really “wholesale changes”.
Accorsi sure lays it on thick  
Modus Operandi : 12/6/2017 1:04 pm : link
This is Accorsi moments ago saying a few words about Gettleman..
To know him is to love him.. - ( New Window )
Outside the Northeast, New Yorkers are not loved for their accent,  
plato : 12/6/2017 6:56 pm : link
Their "personality or aggressiveness". "Aggressive New Yorker" was code for "Jew". Times have changed but not all that much. The Midwest, including even Chicago is one with central and South in attitude to NYorkers.

Gettleman may want to come home.
strange that to replace  
bluepepper : 12/6/2017 7:08 pm : link
the regime that got into trouble for benching a beloved vet we'd go and hire a guy who got fired for his ruthlessness in getting rid of popular vets in Carolina.
RE: seems to me he did a good job in Carolina, can't figure out why they  
Carson53 : 12/7/2017 10:35 am : link
In comment 13727122 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
canned him.

But he is 66, and this doesn't seem like a short term job. And there is the worry that if he's aold "Giants guy", ownership will again be able to meddle.
.

Apparently he didn't get along with some of their veteran players, they didn't care for him.
The Giants could do worse than him, but he is 66 as you mentioned.
Get a Giants Guy  
Jim in NH : 12/7/2017 12:59 pm : link
I know! What's Andy Robustelli doing?
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