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Connor Orr continuing to make waves

Gross Blau Oberst : 12/6/2017 1:19 pm
Another anti Giants article here


Why Reinstating Eli Manning As the Giants Starting QB Is a Ridiculous Move - ( New Window )
He  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/6/2017 1:22 pm : link
does raise valid points.
He's not entirely wrong,  
Section331 : 12/6/2017 1:23 pm : link
but if he thinks Geno Smith had or has any future with this team, I don't know what to tell him. If he thinks the Giants should play Webb, I agree, but playing Geno is a waste of time.
So we should all be mad this week, too?  
bceagle05 : 12/6/2017 1:27 pm : link
My feelings have been the same throughout. Winding up with a top three pick in this year's draft all but eliminates Davis Webb as a starter down the line. Geno Smith has no future here, and was signed to hold the same clipboard Ryan Nassib, David Carr, Jared Lorenzen and others have held behind Eli. It was never necessary for either to play down the stretch if Eli was healthy. Want to give Webb a look-see to let the incoming GM and coaching staff evaluate some game tape? Sure, what the hell, can't hurt. But Eli will ultimately hand the reins to the incoming rookie first rounder in 2018.
I think it's weak.....  
BillKo : 12/6/2017 1:27 pm : link
mainly because Webb isn't ready to play. Probably won't be up to speed enough to play versus Philly - a good team that will bring it.

The fan base he speaks of, which is still a minority I'd bet, wants to see Webb. Not Geno Smith.

His article would have more substance if Webb was ready to go.......Why is that hard to understand?




and it's only ridiculous...  
BillKo : 12/6/2017 1:28 pm : link
because the guy they just fired wanted to "evaluate" Geno Smith.....so Eli really should have never been benched.

Guy was trying to save his job.............
My 2 cents' worth:  
81_Great_Dane : 12/6/2017 1:31 pm : link
Last week more or less proved that Eli wasn't the big problem with the offense. Geno was a little better, and they scored a little more, so they showed a more mobile QB would do a little better. But it was pretty much the same team, same offense, same flaws. Geno proved that Eli was a part of the problem, but replacing him with Webb or Smith isn't the solution. (Replacing him with Aaron Rodgers might help.)

Now McAdoo's gone, and Eli's back. This is an opportunity to test whether McAdoo was the big problem. If the game plan is markedly different, Eli has a big day and the Giants win, then we get to point at McAdoo. (If your offense needs Aaron Rodgers to thrive, you probably can't coach anywhere but Green Bay.)
Eric - B*!!S^!t lousy points made.  
Gross Blau Oberst : 12/6/2017 1:32 pm : link
1. It puts the loudest, most hypocritical portion of your fan base in the driverís seat.

The fans are the shareholders and source of the teams revenue. Listen to them (to a degree) or alienate them and the funding stream they bring.

2. Manningís streak has already ended.

Not important to the team, nor to Eli. Meaningless argument here. Red herring distraction too.

3. It puts any future roster evaluations at risk.

What evaluations are your going to get by inserting a new QB in the same offensive scheme (it won't change much after the regime change) and with the same OL and skill players surrounding the QB. If anything, this save Webb from skewed assessments and bad assumptions on ability. This is not training camp.

4. Are games going to really be that much less competitive?

No, they won't and other teams will be coming after the Giants QB in earnest for the rest of the season regardless of who is at QB.

The season needs to be played out to see who is still competing. Sprinkle in the 2nd and 3rd string late. But still play to be competitive.

Not good points at all. Utter BS to feed the ESPN click bait.
Fans Still Too Angry  
Jeffrey : 12/6/2017 1:39 pm : link
The fans are still too angry to be objective. After everything calms down and people stop focusing on the shabby manner in which a class individual who has dedicated his career to the Giants was mistreated, they will start to see that the future is not with an aging, immobile and increasingly ineffective QB, particularly with the "talent" that he has been given. Yes, if Eli was going to be a quality player for 3 years maybe it's worth it, but with the rebuild that must occur, he will be even less effective by the time he is given a decent line, quality receivers, a running game and a coaching staff with a better feel for using his diminishing skills.
Geno showed last week that he is backup Qb material  
spike : 12/6/2017 1:46 pm : link
Against a weak raiders secondary.

Soon it will be Webbs turn.
fans should not  
bc4life : 12/6/2017 1:51 pm : link
be making personnel decisions. that is worse than letting players make the decisions.

I was okay with benching because despite fact Eli is best QB - season is lost and they need to see what they have behind Eli. Plus, no running game and porous pass protection - you risk endangering an immobile Eli for no appreciable gain.
So you're saying Manning and the Giants  
jeff57 : 12/6/2017 1:52 pm : link
are one and the same?
Not sure why this is anti-Giants...  
NorwoodWideRight : 12/6/2017 1:52 pm : link
His article makes sense and is logical.
Somehow they need to get Webb into some games.  
Blue21 : 12/6/2017 1:52 pm : link
Maybe not this week, maybe not a full half but they need to see what they got. If not this year then next? But it's gonna happen.
now we won't see what  
bc4life : 12/6/2017 1:54 pm : link
that have in Geno, more importantly Webb and they might be using a #1 pick on a QB. Think it might be a good idea to see what Webb can do first?
spike  
LG in NYC : 12/6/2017 1:54 pm : link
then what has Eli shown the last 2 years? because he looked the same or worse at times.



per Orr's article... the owners can't actually say it, and many fans do not want to admit it, but losing out is best for this team. Winning against DAL or PHIL is a very short term high followed by the hangover of a worse draft pick and maybe losing out on the guy we really want.

These opptys do not come along often - fortunately - so we need to hit on this one.

Here is the thing - there is now absolutely NO reason to play Eli Manning the rest of this season. None. The streak is over, winning means nothing good, and even if it is not perfect, paying Webb (and yes, even Geno) will give us some sense of their worth going forward.

Too much emotion of good common sense being displayed here over the past few weeks.
Eli starts Sunday ..but then Webb will get the starts  
Alwaysblue22 : 12/6/2017 1:54 pm : link
Eli is getting the start as a Tribute to Eli and the Fact the we are playing Dallas. A veteran QB like Eli has seen all of the various defenses used in the NFL and gives you a better chance to win a game that the organization thinks is important to win than a rookie QB. If Eli stinks out the place in the first half you will see Webb. I think it will be a close game until the end and Eli will play the entire game. Thereafter Webb is going to play because the Giants have to know whether or not they need to draft another QB instead of a Tackle or Guard that is more badly needed right now than another rookie QB sitting on the bench waiting his turn, if the Giants expect to get better quickly. If the Giants want to make a clean break and move on to a new QB they need to find out how much Webb has absorbed and if he can step in and start next year. If Webb looks like a bust or is uncertain than the Giants will have to consider another QB , I would prefer that they take one who will step in immediately like Dak Prescott did for Dallas. The only College Qb who I think is capable of doing this in this years class is Baker Mayfield who took over Webb's job as a freshman at Texas tech and forced Webb to transfer to Cal.
The only QB's that should be touching the field  
gmen9892 : 12/6/2017 1:55 pm : link
Are either Eli or Webb. Why do we keep drudging this up? Webb is not ready because he has been getting NO reps in practice, which was on Ben. I am not even sure what Geno is still doing on the team at this point. Webb should be taking more reps in practice and should be the #2 QB.

He is not ready to start this week with little to no preparation, and more than likely, he will need at least a full 2 weeks of practice to get fully up to speed. If you want to throw him in during a blowout, which we more than likely will see over the next 4 weeks, then by all means.

They shouldn't rush his development for the sake of getting a look at him. They would be putting him at a major disadvantage and not putting him in any kind of situation that he can succeed in.
He's right on.  
Thunderstruck27 : 12/6/2017 1:56 pm : link
I would just throw Webb to the wolves. What do we have to lose?
Do people honestly think that Geno Smith is/was anything  
NorwoodWideRight : 12/6/2017 1:58 pm : link
but a stop-gap measure? A cheap option to start and/or compete for QB to begin the year with plans to insert Web/Quarterback X at some point later next year? It would absolve the Giants of having to pay for Eli's roster bonus and salary while making moves for the future of the team.

What if this is true? What if Eli is, in fact, toast (as I and others believe him to be)? What if Spags (through Mara) reinserted Eli to appease the fans because the backlash was just *that* bad. Billboards aren't that bad? Past players showing up with Eli jerseys aren't that bad?

By giving in, doing a 180 and reinserting Manning, the Giants would look STUPID pulling him YET AGAIN, which means Webb's opportunity to play and be evaluated is going to suffer.

Not to mention that, if none of the above is true, the Giants look like a wayward, wishy-washy organization, which flies in the face of everything they have EVER stood for.
I'm curious  
LG in NYC : 12/6/2017 1:59 pm : link
to those saying it is ok to play Webb in a blow out but not start... why?

if the Giants are down by 14 in the 4th and we put Webb in there cold, why is that ok... but having him go out and start the game after getting a week's practice not ok?

I keep hearing this argument from the same people and yet I am unclear on the reasoning.
RE: So we should all be mad this week, too?  
Bill L : 12/6/2017 2:00 pm : link
In comment 13727751 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
My feelings have been the same throughout. Winding up with a top three pick in this year's draft all but eliminates Davis Webb as a starter down the line. Geno Smith has no future here, and was signed to hold the same clipboard Ryan Nassib, David Carr, Jared Lorenzen and others have held behind Eli. It was never necessary for either to play down the stretch if Eli was healthy. Want to give Webb a look-see to let the incoming GM and coaching staff evaluate some game tape? Sure, what the hell, can't hurt. But Eli will ultimately hand the reins to the incoming rookie first rounder in 2018.
Bingo.
GBO nails it to the wall.  
Red Dog : 12/6/2017 2:01 pm : link
Orr is so far off-base with this crap that he should find a new line of work.

The real bottom line is in the very first part. Pro football is a business, an entertainment business to be precise.

The fans provide the revenue for the team, both directly through game attendance and indirectly through the TV audience and purchases of authorized team gear. Alienate them and suffer the financial consequences. And that's just what McAdouche did by benching Eli.

It was also a really dumb move for the longer-term future of the team.
RE: I'm curious  
gmen9892 : 12/6/2017 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13727837 LG in NYC said:
Quote:
to those saying it is ok to play Webb in a blow out but not start... why?

if the Giants are down by 14 in the 4th and we put Webb in there cold, why is that ok... but having him go out and start the game after getting a week's practice not ok?

I keep hearing this argument from the same people and yet I am unclear on the reasoning.


The point is, you dont start the kid until he has the playbook down and shows you in practice that he is ready to handle the full system and make the right calls. That is how people get hurt. The kid is coming from a totally different system and has gotten 0 reps.

If you throw him in during the 4th quarter of a blowout, he is most likely not going to be facing 1st stringers (but better competition than the 4th preseason game). You get him used to live action, and there is no harm no foul. No pressure on him whatsoever. He can run basic plays and get into the flow of a real NFL game.
RE: GBO nails it to the wall.  
jeff57 : 12/6/2017 2:05 pm : link
In comment 13727842 Red Dog said:
Quote:
Orr is so far off-base with this crap that he should find a new line of work.

The real bottom line is in the very first part. Pro football is a business, an entertainment business to be precise.

The fans provide the revenue for the team, both directly through game attendance and indirectly through the TV audience and purchases of authorized team gear. Alienate them and suffer the financial consequences. And that's just what McAdouche did by benching Eli.

It was also a really dumb move for the longer-term future of the team.


You mean when Manning is under center in 10 years?
I've been saying this as well  
Matt M. : 12/6/2017 2:09 pm : link
Once the streak (and damage) was done, starting Eli doesn't really have great value. If they can convince him, I would love to have him as our QB next year. But, right now, there is more value to the franchise in seeing Webb in game action. It's great that several weeks past due they finally elevated him to #2. But, they need to see him play.
gmen - what is your definition of a blowout?  
LG in NYC : 12/6/2017 2:15 pm : link
I said down by 14 in the 4th... you don't typically see starters being pulled in that scenario.

so in your mind, Webb doesn't get game action unless we are down far enough that the other team starts putting in their 2nd and 3rd stingers?? is that down by 24 points, 30 points... and how late in the game?

and having him come in and hand off 10 times down by 30 points doesn't tell us much more than having him sit on the bench.

seriously, you guys act like this is the first time a rookie is being asked to show what he has. if you tell me that Eli is playing this 1 week as an appeasement to everyone, and Webb gets a full week under his belt and plays the final 3 games then ok... but the idea that we are playing Eli so we can win games, and b/c poor Webb just can't handle the big bad NFL, then I will repeat that this is stupid.
By the logic most of you use...  
Thunderstruck27 : 12/6/2017 2:24 pm : link
Eli should have never been pulled for Kurt Warner. You know...that guy who won a Super Bowl after he left the NYG.
RE: By the logic most of you use...  
Thunderstruck27 : 12/6/2017 2:24 pm : link
In comment 13727912 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
Eli should have never been pulled for Kurt Warner. You know...that guy who won a Super Bowl after he left the NYG.

Kurt pulled for Eli *
This team better start preparing for the future or there will  
Blue21 : 12/6/2017 2:25 pm : link
be more 2-10 starts and then the stadium will be empty with a lot of loss revenue. Geno no doubt was a mistake and it could have been handled better but I hope they really have a plan this time and not some reactionary BS.
RE: By the logic most of you use...  
gmen9892 : 12/6/2017 2:25 pm : link
In comment 13727912 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
Eli should have never been pulled for Kurt Warner. You know...that guy who won a Super Bowl after he left the NYG.


Eli was a Top 5 pick. He was clearly going to be handed the keys to the franchise after getting drafted. The same can't be said for Webb.
RE: gmen - what is your definition of a blowout?  
gmen9892 : 12/6/2017 2:29 pm : link
In comment 13727888 LG in NYC said:
Quote:
I said down by 14 in the 4th... you don't typically see starters being pulled in that scenario.

so in your mind, Webb doesn't get game action unless we are down far enough that the other team starts putting in their 2nd and 3rd stingers?? is that down by 24 points, 30 points... and how late in the game?

and having him come in and hand off 10 times down by 30 points doesn't tell us much more than having him sit on the bench.

seriously, you guys act like this is the first time a rookie is being asked to show what he has. if you tell me that Eli is playing this 1 week as an appeasement to everyone, and Webb gets a full week under his belt and plays the final 3 games then ok... but the idea that we are playing Eli so we can win games, and b/c poor Webb just can't handle the big bad NFL, then I will repeat that this is stupid.


This is where I have fault with everyone calling for Eli. What happens if we are unable to trade Eli this offseason? There is a damn good chance that he is going into next year as the starter, regardless of who is drafted. Do you really think this team is going into next year with either a rookie QB or Webb? If you bench Eli the rest of the year, you are futher alienating a guy that might be needed to start some, if not all of next year.

I have no problem with Webb and would like to get him some looks too. Behind this OL with this terrible system, I feel that it will do more harm then good for a QB who was clearly raw and not expected to play this year.
RE: RE: By the logic most of you use...  
Thunderstruck27 : 12/6/2017 2:35 pm : link
In comment 13727923 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
In comment 13727912 Thunderstruck27 said:


Quote:


Eli should have never been pulled for Kurt Warner. You know...that guy who won a Super Bowl after he left the NYG.



Eli was a Top 5 pick. He was clearly going to be handed the keys to the franchise after getting drafted. The same can't be said for Webb.


I get what you're saying. And you are right, the situation is a bit different. But look at what happened in NE 17 years ago. It took Bledsoe getting hurt for the Patriots to see Tom Brady.
RE: gmen - what is your definition of a blowout?  
Matt M. : 12/6/2017 2:36 pm : link
In comment 13727888 LG in NYC said:
Quote:
I said down by 14 in the 4th... you don't typically see starters being pulled in that scenario.

so in your mind, Webb doesn't get game action unless we are down far enough that the other team starts putting in their 2nd and 3rd stingers?? is that down by 24 points, 30 points... and how late in the game?

and having him come in and hand off 10 times down by 30 points doesn't tell us much more than having him sit on the bench.

seriously, you guys act like this is the first time a rookie is being asked to show what he has. if you tell me that Eli is playing this 1 week as an appeasement to everyone, and Webb gets a full week under his belt and plays the final 3 games then ok... but the idea that we are playing Eli so we can win games, and b/c poor Webb just can't handle the big bad NFL, then I will repeat that this is stupid.
As I said, I wouldn't wait for a blowout. I would just be starting Webb the last 4 weeks. Is anyone really that excited by the possibility of beating Dallas in an ugly game just to say we beat Dallas? Because, any game we win right now is bound to be an ugly game. I'd much rather evaluate Webb and let him take his lumps to see how he reacts. In the process, we, in theory, would be setting up for the #2 pick in the draft.
A memory relevant to this.  
81_Great_Dane : 12/6/2017 2:39 pm : link
I remember the game where Simms had that terrible thumb injury.

What I remember most about that game was Simms didn't start. He came in when Brunner couldn't move the team -- and the team responded to him instantly. It was night and day. He had command, he was zipping the ball around the field, the team was moving, it was a different team. (It's possible my memory is faulty, it was a long time ago, but I remember telling to my father about all this after the game; he'd been unable to watch. I think I was in NY and he was in Rochester and the game wasn't televised there.)

The point is: We did NOT see that kind of change when Geno came in. So if Geno's the future QB of the Giants, he didn't show it on Sunday. I've seen a QB come in and make a big difference, and Geno didn't.
This is a Business Decision  
Manning10 : 12/6/2017 2:41 pm : link
Sponsors like Dunkin Donuts, Toyota and the like who pay millions of Dollars to the Giants and the NFL do not care about Draft picks and QB auditions. With 3 home games left and TV ratings they want a return on their investment which is, you play your Marquee Player and try to win games.
I am not saying its right , but read between the lines of What Mara was saying at his New conference.
RE: Eric - B*!!S^!t lousy points made.  
ajr2456 : 12/6/2017 2:55 pm : link
In comment 13727765 Gross Blau Oberst said:
Quote:
1. It puts the loudest, most hypocritical portion of your fan base in the driverís seat.

The fans are the shareholders and source of the teams revenue. Listen to them (to a degree) or alienate them and the funding stream they bring.

2. Manningís streak has already ended.

Not important to the team, nor to Eli. Meaningless argument here. Red herring distraction too.

3. It puts any future roster evaluations at risk.

What evaluations are your going to get by inserting a new QB in the same offensive scheme (it won't change much after the regime change) and with the same OL and skill players surrounding the QB. If anything, this save Webb from skewed assessments and bad assumptions on ability. This is not training camp.

4. Are games going to really be that much less competitive?

No, they won't and other teams will be coming after the Giants QB in earnest for the rest of the season regardless of who is at QB.

The season needs to be played out to see who is still competing. Sprinkle in the 2nd and 3rd string late. But still play to be competitive.

Not good points at all. Utter BS to feed the ESPN click bait.


To be fair if they listened to the fans Eli and Coughlin wouldnt have made it to 2007
They really can't win at this point.  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 12/6/2017 3:16 pm : link
People will whine either way. Myself I don't see what we can possibly learn about Webb in this dumpster fire, and I don't think Webb playing well would even prevent them from drafting a franchise QB, nor should it.

At this point I just want the season to end.
RE: This is a Business Decision  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/6/2017 3:27 pm : link
In comment 13727969 Manning10 said:
Quote:
Sponsors like Dunkin Donuts, Toyota and the like who pay millions of Dollars to the Giants and the NFL do not care about Draft picks and QB auditions. With 3 home games left and TV ratings they want a return on their investment which is, you play your Marquee Player and try to win games.
I am not saying its right , but read between the lines of What Mara was saying at his New conference.


This isn't how sponsorship deals work. Sponsors don't and can't just pull out of deals based on win-loss record. There has to be cause that being affiliated with the Giants is damaging to their business.
I think the odds are high that Eli is the QB next year  
Go Terps : 12/6/2017 3:34 pm : link
Given that, as well as Webb's presence, I don't think we should necessarily target a quarterback in the draft. Just pick the best player. If it's a quarterback, fine. If it's not, that's fine too.
RE: I think the odds are high that Eli is the QB next year  
Sean : 12/6/2017 3:36 pm : link
In comment 13728065 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Given that, as well as Webb's presence, I don't think we should necessarily target a quarterback in the draft. Just pick the best player. If it's a quarterback, fine. If it's not, that's fine too.


Are you okay with this? Youíve been advocating a complete tear down.
Alotta Eli Fantasy on this web site...  
M.S. : 12/6/2017 3:45 pm : link

...A.L.O.T.T.A.
Sean  
Go Terps : 12/6/2017 3:47 pm : link
I have a hard time being objective when it comes to Eli Manning. I'm rooting for him to be the quarterback next year. Were I a completely objective GM coming in with no skin in the game, I'd probably try to trade him before the draft (as well as try to extricate myself however possible from the other big contracts and some of the people on the roster).

That said, I think Eli can be a good (or even extremely good) quarterback for this team the next couple years if there is an effort to construct an offense built to his strengths.

So basically, I think there are routes to success with or without him. The fan in me hopes it happens with him.
simple, Eli gives us the best chance to lose  
gtt350 : 12/6/2017 3:51 pm : link
.
Connor Orr  
Blue Moon : 12/6/2017 4:23 pm : link
Is a retard did you guys know that? We are 2 and 10 for goodness sake. Weíre not fighting for a playoff spot weíre doing the right thing for a Giant legend. Iíd start Pee Wee Herman at this point if he brought me two Super Bowls!
Case Keenum  
oldutican : 12/6/2017 4:49 pm : link
Geno Smith wouldn't be the first QB who failed in his first attempt as a starter. I thought he played well Sunday. So did Sy56 in his game review. It's in the best interests of the team to let him start until coaches want to risk Webb playing.

Mara is trotting Eli out there just to avoid a scene on Sunday.
Everyone is forgetting that  
montanagiant : 12/6/2017 4:57 pm : link
Webb is not ready to play yet. That was why he was inactive, he's not ready. It's another indictment against McAdoo but it could be because the kid sucks and has not practiced up to any level but Inactive
RE: Everyone is forgetting that  
clatterbuck : 12/6/2017 6:04 pm : link
In comment 13728219 montanagiant said:
Quote:
Webb is not ready to play yet. That was why he was inactive, he's not ready. It's another indictment against McAdoo but it could be because the kid sucks and has not practiced up to any level but Inactive


Exactly. Blame McAdoo for not getting Webb any meaningful practice reps. You can't --rephrase -- you shouldn't throw the kid to the wolves when he isn't ready. He's still doing scout team this week while Geno remains backup.
They arenít going any where  
Rflairr : 12/6/2017 6:05 pm : link
Stupidly playing Eli, instead of seeing what they have in Webb is just dumb. Why? Because Eliís feelings were hurt and the fans didnít like it?
RE: RE: This is a Business Decision  
clatterbuck : 12/6/2017 6:13 pm : link
In comment 13728054 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13727969 Manning10 said:


Quote:


Sponsors like Dunkin Donuts, Toyota and the like who pay millions of Dollars to the Giants and the NFL do not care about Draft picks and QB auditions. With 3 home games left and TV ratings they want a return on their investment which is, you play your Marquee Player and try to win games.
I am not saying its right , but read between the lines of What Mara was saying at his New conference.



This isn't how sponsorship deals work. Sponsors don't and can't just pull out of deals based on win-loss record. There has to be cause that being affiliated with the Giants is damaging to their business.


Dunkin Donuts and Toyota deals are with Eli not the Giants. Sponsors and marketing partners don't have anything to do with decisions about players. It's just not how it's done. Sponsors will express their displeasure re a Josh Brown situation to the team's marketing department but they don't decide who starts at QB.
Starting Manning  
jbeintherockies : 12/6/2017 8:19 pm : link
Spags feels Eli gives them the best chance to win. Owner made it clear winning is top priority; no games will be thrown for a better draft position. Geno played one game and played well. But now defenses have tape on him in this offense. It may not go as well in his second and third games. Finally, Webb simply is not ready to play. When he is, he will.
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