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If the Giants want to fix their interior O-line real fast...

M.S. : 12/7/2017 5:24 am
...Quenton Nelson, Left OG (Notre Dame) with the 2nd pick.

And, Billy Price, Center (Ohio Sate) with the 34th pick.

They both start from the first day of practice and all of a sudden Eli (or someone else) has a much cleaner pocket and our running backs will see holes that haven't been there for years.

Nelson and Price are very safe picks for a desperate unit that's a perennial NFL bottom feeder.

ps Quenton Nelson plays at a shockingly high level. I'll leave it to professionals to provide a full evaluation, but here's one observation -- Quenton Nelson is liking having two guys on the field in one body. The way he puts his helmet on multiple defenders on a given play is amazing. Oh, man, would this guy look good in Blue! A much bigger Chris Snee with double his athleticism -- (and Chris Snee could be the greatest guard in Giants history IMO).
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Interior OL  
Big_Pete : 12/7/2017 5:32 am : link
I wouldn't be against this approach, although if Nelson was the guy, I would prefer to trade down a little for an extra second round pick.
I think it's pretty much a given  
Reb8thVA : 12/7/2017 5:39 am : link
They will take a QB in the first unless they somehow drop out of the top five. I think they could grab Price at the top of the second and maybe Will Hernandez and get a similar effect.
i would sign the best LT in FA  
George from PA : 12/7/2017 5:41 am : link
move Flower to RT, resign Puge and Fluker to play guard.....and draft the best center possible in the 2nd....if its your guy....perfect.
I like the whole tone of this conversation.  
short lease : 12/7/2017 6:08 am : link
: )
George  
SLIM_ : 12/7/2017 6:37 am : link
THe best LT in free agency could actually be Pugh. Yes, I know that he has not played there. It looks like the only other one of interest is Nate Solder.

We need to draft OL and we need to hit on them. I don't care if it is round 1, 2 or 3. I'd prefer an and for to get at least 2 picks.

While I have looked at the FA OL, I haven't looked at FA LB. I think we can probably find some marginal upgrades there or at minimal tread water.

Even if we draft a QB, we need to go all in on OL.
They are not going  
mdthedream : 12/7/2017 6:40 am : link
to take a guard with the second pick in the draft.
Finally an MS thread I can get behind...!!  
JCin332 : 12/7/2017 6:59 am : link
Nice job buddy...!!
Dallas has one of the best OLines in the NFL  
JohnB : 12/7/2017 7:13 am : link
and they are going nowhere because they don't have a good QB (sorry Dak Prescott fans). And I think that regardless of how good the Jets get, they too are going nowhere until they get a good QB. Same for the Bills and many others.

Finding a good QB is the hardest thing to do in the NFL and when you have a shot at a QB who could be great, you take it.

The Giants are at the top of a QB rich draft and in need of a QB for the future. The Giants ARE taking a QB with their first pick.
I'm one of the few who would seriously consider trading OBJ  
DavidinBMNY : 12/7/2017 7:15 am : link
And grab picks this year and next to balance the roster.
Have your cake and eat it too.  
Diver_Down : 12/7/2017 7:22 am : link
Need more draft capital? Trade OBJ. There are no sacred cows on the roster. Some we are stuck with due to cap constraints, but others whom are on their rookie deals looking to get paid are prime to yield the greatest value. If OBJ can yield a first and second round pick this year and a first next year, you do it.
I would  
1st and 10 : 12/7/2017 7:23 am : link
Firstly, no LT in this years draft looks to be a sure bet, so Flowers is most likely your best bet to be next years LT. The financials for signing someone is out of hand, look at last years prices.

I would also resign Fluker, and let Pugh and Weston walk. Pugh is too injured and Weston R. has taken a step back every year since year 2.

I think the fix for the OL will largely depend on what slot we pick in the upcoming draft.

Top 3 pick scenario:

If we have a top 3 pick, it will most likely be a QB picked in this slot, so I would say lets draft a center in the 2nd round. A good one should still be available in this range.

Top 5-10 pick scenario:

In this case, we go with the best guard in the draft and I think we use round 2 on another position of need. We use FA to sign a center in this case.

RT is where they really need to assess what they have this year, not so sure if we have an answer there. Maybe another year in the weight room will really help.
Let's say NYG goes OL and pleases the OL obsessed  
JonC : 12/7/2017 7:33 am : link
How will look at the team when Eli's shot, shortly down the road?

You don't get many chances to draft a blue chip QB. If you covet one and he's there carrying the grade, you pick him and set the foundation for ten years.

QB > OG
RE: Finally an MS thread I can get behind...!!  
M.S. : 12/7/2017 7:34 am : link
In comment 13728555 JCin332 said:
Quote:
Nice job buddy...!!

{:-)
Not against the premise of the thread..  
EricJ : 12/7/2017 7:43 am : link
in focusing heavily on the OL...
but if we use the 2nd pick in the draft to select a guard, I will be pissed off.
The last time I heard a guard being this highly touted...  
Milton : 12/7/2017 7:47 am : link
It was the year of Jonathan Cooper and Chance Warmack!
Remember  
Reb8thVA : 12/7/2017 7:54 am : link
John Hicks
Don’t have a problem  
cokeduplt : 12/7/2017 7:55 am : link
With picking Nelson but it better be after a trade down. Picking him at 2 is ridiculous
OBJ  
cokeduplt : 12/7/2017 7:59 am : link
is the best player we’ve had since LT and people want to trade him? If he wasn’t hurt they probably have 3-4 more wins just from him.
RE: Don’t have a problem  
jeff57 : 12/7/2017 8:03 am : link
In comment 13728572 cokeduplt said:
Quote:
With picking Nelson but it better be after a trade down. Picking him at 2 is ridiculous


Agree. Wouldn't take him before 5.
RE: George  
jvm52106 : 12/7/2017 8:11 am : link
In comment 13728553 SLIM_ said:
Quote:
THe best LT in free agency could actually be Pugh. Yes, I know that he has not played there. It looks like the only other one of interest is Nate Solder.

We need to draft OL and we need to hit on them. I don't care if it is round 1, 2 or 3. I'd prefer an and for to get at least 2 picks.

While I have looked at the FA OL, I haven't looked at FA LB. I think we can probably find some marginal upgrades there or at minimal tread water.

Even if we draft a QB, we need to go all in on OL.


I would be ok with PUGH if he could stay healthy. He may actually stand a better chance staying healthy at LT than guard. I think too much was made of his size flaws as his technique is far superior to the larger Flowers..

If Flowers can be moved to RT (still a big if) then we might be able to keep Pugh. Re-sign Fluker and have him at RG. That is scary in terms of Pass Pro on the Right but the size of those two should help offset the limitations.

That leaves Center and LG as positions needing to be filled. Jones is a backup and that is it.

When we drafted Eli, we got Snee too.. Perhaps we go QB and G again...
I think Flowers has shown he can stay at LT  
jeff57 : 12/7/2017 8:17 am : link
They could franchise Pugh and put him at LG. And play Nelson at RG and Price at C under this scenario. RT would have to be addressed in FA.
RE: i would sign the best LT in FA  
Beezer : 12/7/2017 8:23 am : link
In comment 13728542 George from PA said:
Quote:
move Flower to RT, resign Puge and Fluker to play guard.....and draft the best center possible in the 2nd....if its your guy....perfect.


Any possibility at all of Richardson being able to play center?
Rumor has it  
idiotsavant : 12/7/2017 8:28 am : link
There won't be any QBs in the draft in 2019.

I jest. Of course there will be.
Flowers and Pugh  
bc4life : 12/7/2017 8:29 am : link
Probably two of most important questions for new GM and HC.
am also interested in what  
bc4life : 12/7/2017 8:31 am : link
new regimes thinks of Wheeler and Dunker.
John B gets it  
RollBlue : 12/7/2017 8:45 am : link
having a good O-Line doesn't mean success.

People think if we just draft OL high, that will solve it.

When Richburg was taken in the second round, most were very happy with the pick. He looked very good in year 2 (first year at C). Now everyone bitches about him.

Getting a good coaching staff is way more important than just drafting OL in every round. And a franchise QB is 100 times more important than getting a top OG.
Picking a guard at  
ryanmkeane : 12/7/2017 8:46 am : link
2...he better be a hall of famer. Very good guards can be had in rounds 2-4. Look at Snee for example, he was elite.

Guards can be a factor but ultimately they aren't the reason you get over the top. We won a Super Bowl with Kevin Boothe at LG.
I concur OL 1st two rounds.  
gtt350 : 12/7/2017 8:47 am : link
Webb might be the goods, Geno looked fine last week and Eli still has gas in the tank. Given time to throw and establish the run we will improve dramatically. If we can pick up another pick by dropping down a slot or two I would do that also and grab a running back
The only way I'd take a guard  
ryanmkeane : 12/7/2017 8:48 am : link
in the 1st round is if we traded back and got a bunch of 2nd and 3rd round picks. You could take an elite guard in the teens and then have 3-4 picks before round 4 to get your other guys.

But certainly not if you have a top 2 pick and a QB is there for the taking. Even if Eli plays next year, hell even if he plays in 2019...we need to not be scrambling when he's done for good.
do you think any of these kid QB's are going to come in and play  
gtt350 : 12/7/2017 8:49 am : link
better than Geno did? I doubt it.
If we take OL  
ryanmkeane : 12/7/2017 8:50 am : link
with our first pick, I'd certainly prefer a tackle and not a guard. Orlando Brown looks like a beast. We'll get a nice look at him in the playoff game.
that's not the point  
JonC : 12/7/2017 8:51 am : link
You draft a QB for the next ten years, you develop him and turn him into the face of the franchise.

The draft isn't only about 2018 success.
Id be OK with  
Powerclean765 : 12/7/2017 8:52 am : link
that but hopefully after a trade down now that we’ll have a little bit more active GM during the draft. You dont take Nelson top 3.

That said, I really hope we dont do Eli like we did Coughlin. IE finally fix the personnel AFTER you get rid of him.
Interesting to see  
ryanmkeane : 12/7/2017 8:54 am : link
whoever the GM is and what their draft style is going to be. Reese was always pretty much by the book. BPA, never trade, take the dynamic playmaker at the premium positions in round 1, solid starter in round 2, and then semi projects to guys with "upside" in the later rounds.

If it's Gettleman or Dorsey, will they covet the QB or try and fix the roster first from the inside out?
It probably depends in the actual  
idiotsavant : 12/7/2017 9:00 am : link
Valuation of the QBs. Not the hoped for valuation.

If it's not obvious that the top two are worth it, jonc is correct, it is a long term project.

The guard is apparently a very unusual one. It is possible you get what you need at QB in pick 12 of the 2019 draft or something like that.

Is it possible that Darnold and Rosen both are not that great?

Sure.
Guards in the first 2 Rounds???  
Jim in Tampa : 12/7/2017 9:05 am : link
What position do you want to draft in RD 3...a kicker, punter or a backup long snapper?
Its Darnold and Rosen  
Dankbeerman : 12/7/2017 9:12 am : link
then everyone else. I dont think the other QBs are in the must pick tier. If we end up picking 3 or later and cant trade up Im all for Nelson
Everyone keeps jumping to conclusions  
gmen9892 : 12/7/2017 9:22 am : link
That this years QB class is amazing. Right now, Rosen is the ONLY given. Darnold might not even come out, and if he does, he will have question marks. Even with those question marks, its Rosen and Darnold, and everyone else is way far behind.

Mayfield is a great college QB, but even the best draft analysts have no clue what to expect from him. He could be the next Manziel or the next Russell Wilson. Lamar Jackson could be the next Cunningham or the next RG3. Allen has played against very low competition and hasn't done that well to stand out.

Everyone is sticking to the narratives that were put out earlier in the year that this was going to be an all-time QB draft class. Now that the college season is over, that narrative is old and no longer true.
RE: Everyone keeps jumping to conclusions  
jeff57 : 12/7/2017 9:24 am : link
In comment 13728663 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
That this years QB class is amazing. Right now, Rosen is the ONLY given. Darnold might not even come out, and if he does, he will have question marks. Even with those question marks, its Rosen and Darnold, and everyone else is way far behind.

Mayfield is a great college QB, but even the best draft analysts have no clue what to expect from him. He could be the next Manziel or the next Russell Wilson. Lamar Jackson could be the next Cunningham or the next RG3. Allen has played against very low competition and hasn't done that well to stand out.

Everyone is sticking to the narratives that were put out earlier in the year that this was going to be an all-time QB draft class. Now that the college season is over, that narrative is old and no longer true.


Not all time great, but the best overall class in at least a couple of years.
Great  
Jay on the Island : 12/7/2017 9:34 am : link
now what about the franchise QB? Is Nelson really worthy of the 2nd overall pick? If they do select Nelson and Price and Webb isn't a starting QB then they will be in trouble. By the time they finally find their next franchise QB they will deciding on which between Nelson and Price to keep as their rookie contracts expire.

I am a big fan of Price and would love to see the Giants take him with their 2nd pick even if it meant trading back up into the end of round 1. I am a firm believer that the Giants have to come away with their next franchise QB in the draft.
I guess I disagree on a couple of things here  
PatersonPlank : 12/7/2017 9:35 am : link
First, why not take a G high? If you think he's a 10 year guy, and a future All-Pro, why not? This theory of trading down to get your top G will not work. If Nelson is there when we pick, and he's our guy, we need to draft him.

Second I don't buy that this is an "all time" QB draft. The only guy who looks like a sure top thing is Rosen, and I guess I hear there are some character issues there. There is a published narrative that last years QB class sucked, which again I don't buy. Well right now IMO I'd take the class of Trubisky, Watson, Kizer, Mahommes, Webb, Peterman, and Breathard over this years class. You can't tell until these guys get into the NFL, we have seen that for decades.

IMO, if Eli stays we go RB and OL in Round 1 and 2. Play Eli and bring Webb along as #2. If Eli goes then we need a guy to play now, so we have to draft a QB this year to compete with Webb. I would take an OL and QB in Rd #1 and #2.

by the way I heard an analysis from a ex-GM, it might have been Polian, and he said so far in his QB study he doesn't see much difference between the top 5 QB's in this draft. So he thinks you can wait until Rd 1 (if you're in the market for a QB), and grab someone like Allen, Jackson, or Mayfield, and be just as well off.
RE: Everyone keeps jumping to conclusions  
Jay on the Island : 12/7/2017 9:38 am : link
In comment 13728663 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
That this years QB class is amazing. Right now, Rosen is the ONLY given. Darnold might not even come out, and if he does, he will have question marks. Even with those question marks, its Rosen and Darnold, and everyone else is way far behind.

Mayfield is a great college QB, but even the best draft analysts have no clue what to expect from him. He could be the next Manziel or the next Russell Wilson. Lamar Jackson could be the next Cunningham or the next RG3. Allen has played against very low competition and hasn't done that well to stand out.

Everyone is sticking to the narratives that were put out earlier in the year that this was going to be an all-time QB draft class. Now that the college season is over, that narrative is old and no longer true.

What QB doesn't have question marks? There were many who had questions about Peyton Manning and felt Ryan Leaf was the superior prospect. As far as I remember the only recent QB prospect that was considered a sure thing was Andrew Luck. Aaron Rodgers had several majors question marks coming out (style of offense in college, throwing motion)
Its not so much the question marks  
gmen9892 : 12/7/2017 10:29 am : link
Its just that many people considered this to be a draft were there were going to be a lot of elite QBs. It remains to be seen right now how these QBs turn out in the pros, but as of right now, who can you say is a surefire Top 5 pick outside of Rosen and Darnold? Are Allen or Mayfield going to do enough between now and April to jump into the Top 10? I dont think so. And that is for a reason.

Prior to this year, this draft class was talked about with the likes of '83 and '04. Now, not so much. There is the Top 2 and a ton of uncertainty after that.
RE: I guess I disagree on a couple of things here  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/7/2017 10:35 am : link
In comment 13728676 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
First, why not take a G high? If you think he's a 10 year guy, and a future All-Pro, why not? This theory of trading down to get your top G will not work. If Nelson is there when we pick, and he's our guy, we need to draft him.

Second I don't buy that this is an "all time" QB draft. The only guy who looks like a sure top thing is Rosen, and I guess I hear there are some character issues there. There is a published narrative that last years QB class sucked, which again I don't buy. Well right now IMO I'd take the class of Trubisky, Watson, Kizer, Mahommes, Webb, Peterman, and Breathard over this years class. You can't tell until these guys get into the NFL, we have seen that for decades.

IMO, if Eli stays we go RB and OL in Round 1 and 2. Play Eli and bring Webb along as #2. If Eli goes then we need a guy to play now, so we have to draft a QB this year to compete with Webb. I would take an OL and QB in Rd #1 and #2.

by the way I heard an analysis from a ex-GM, it might have been Polian, and he said so far in his QB study he doesn't see much difference between the top 5 QB's in this draft. So he thinks you can wait until Rd 1 (if you're in the market for a QB), and grab someone like Allen, Jackson, or Mayfield, and be just as well off.

Who are Mahommes and Breathard? I tried to check Pro Football Reference but got no hits for either name. Maybe if they had some family members who were involved in professional sports that would make their names easier to recognize (or spell).

And the Giants aren't drafting for one more year of Eli, no matter how much you want your fairy tale to come true. They're going to draft for the next decade of the franchise.
Paterson  
ryanmkeane : 12/7/2017 10:52 am : link
while I tend to agree, every single year, literally every year....guys like Polian and the like say "well there's not much difference between the QBs this year...holes in all their games..." and yet, every single year, there are franchise QBs taken and successful.

Look at Goff and Wentz. I'm sure guys like Polian said all kinds of negatives about their games.

It depends on whether the player wants to be great, and the situation they are in.

If you think Darnold or Rosen can be a great QB, there's absolutely no reason at all that I can think of why you wouldn't take either of them if you are in the Giants situation.

As far as taking a guard in the top 5. I just think that's a terrible way to manage your resources. Top 5 picks are the highest paid draft picks and should be franchise type cornerstones. A guard is not one of those players. They can't impact a game on an every down basis like a QB, WR, shut down CB, or DE.
My general point is....  
ryanmkeane : 12/7/2017 10:59 am : link
these guys that have all kinds of things to say about each QB, while they know their stuff, are generally not important to the process. Giants are going to do their due diligence on each of the guys and then if there's conviction, you make a move. Accorsi had a feeling about Eli because he was ALWAYS gunning for his team no matter the circumstance, down 30 or up 3, and would put his team on his back when everything else was going to hell. And that was the mark of a leader and a possible champion.

I'm sick of this "Darnold's throwing motion is a bit slow" bullshit. Means absolutely nothing. The guy has everything you look for and single handedly won a Rose Bowl by himself in his first season at QB. What else do you want?
RE: The last time I heard a guard being this highly touted...  
njm : 12/7/2017 11:52 am : link
In comment 13728567 Milton said:
Quote:
It was the year of Jonathan Cooper and Chance Warmack!


For me it was Zach Martin
RE: Let's say NYG goes OL and pleases the OL obsessed  
njm : 12/7/2017 11:54 am : link
In comment 13728563 JonC said:
Quote:
How will look at the team when Eli's shot, shortly down the road?

You don't get many chances to draft a blue chip QB. If you covet one and he's there carrying the grade, you pick him and set the foundation for ten years.

QB > OG


That's if you assume Webb will fail and that whoever you draft will not be a bust. Possible, but by no means a sure thing on either count.
RE: RE: I guess I disagree on a couple of things here  
PatersonPlank : 12/7/2017 11:58 am : link
In comment 13728825 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13728676 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


First, why not take a G high? If you think he's a 10 year guy, and a future All-Pro, why not? This theory of trading down to get your top G will not work. If Nelson is there when we pick, and he's our guy, we need to draft him.

Second I don't buy that this is an "all time" QB draft. The only guy who looks like a sure top thing is Rosen, and I guess I hear there are some character issues there. There is a published narrative that last years QB class sucked, which again I don't buy. Well right now IMO I'd take the class of Trubisky, Watson, Kizer, Mahommes, Webb, Peterman, and Breathard over this years class. You can't tell until these guys get into the NFL, we have seen that for decades.

IMO, if Eli stays we go RB and OL in Round 1 and 2. Play Eli and bring Webb along as #2. If Eli goes then we need a guy to play now, so we have to draft a QB this year to compete with Webb. I would take an OL and QB in Rd #1 and #2.

by the way I heard an analysis from a ex-GM, it might have been Polian, and he said so far in his QB study he doesn't see much difference between the top 5 QB's in this draft. So he thinks you can wait until Rd 1 (if you're in the market for a QB), and grab someone like Allen, Jackson, or Mayfield, and be just as well off.


Who are Mahommes and Breathard? I tried to check Pro Football Reference but got no hits for either name. Maybe if they had some family members who were involved in professional sports that would make their names easier to recognize (or spell).

And the Giants aren't drafting for one more year of Eli, no matter how much you want your fairy tale to come true. They're going to draft for the next decade of the franchise.


You know who I meant, sorry my spelling isn't up to your high standards.
What I want  
GeorgeAdams33 : 12/7/2017 11:59 am : link
....and I've been saying it for a month, is to draft RB-Saquon Barkley and the make the necessary trades to get Nelson & Price.

I also have said that I would like to trade down if we cannot get Barkley and we don't love one of the defensive players like Chubb, Fitzpatrick, Key, or James. Then we would concentrate on Nelson & Price along with securing a good LT prospect.
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