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NFT: Pearl Harbor Day

Greg from LI : 12/7/2017 9:10 am
At 12:48 PM today, it will be 76 years since the bombing of Pearl Harbor. It's not known how many survivors still remain with us, but the number is small and falling quickly. A few years ago the DOD estimated 2000-2500, and given that they are all well into their 90s or 100s memory is all we'll have soon.

Survivor stories

Two decades after his death and 76 years after that day, a Pearl Harbor hero is finally being recognized

DNA is allowing the remains of the fallen to be identified all these years later

Colorization makes familiar photos of the aftermath intense and vivid.
RIP.  
AcidTest : 12/7/2017 9:44 am : link
Heroes. Thanks for posting.
Went to Hawaii for the first time this Summer  
Stu11 : 12/7/2017 9:51 am : link
and visited Pearl Harbor. Really is an incredible experience. They have a walking/audio tour set up where you visit different stations and hear eyewitness accounts and narrations outside. Visiting the USS Arizona is different than I thought. Unlike most memorials it really is an actual burial ground at sea. I was really enveloped by the honor and respect the servicemen who sacrificed their lives deserve. Couldn't even bring myself to take a picture. Really powerful how to this day small amounts of oil still leak from the ship and you can see it in the water. Was fascinating to find out that veterans who were crewmen and survived the attack on the Arizona request to have their ashes brought back there as a final resting spot to re-join their fellow crew members. The island is such a beautiful spot, you can't imagine it being enveloped in war and death.
Visiting the USS Arizona Memorial  
section125 : 12/7/2017 9:59 am : link
was the most overwhelming experience I have ever had visiting a battlefield site, even more so than the Normandy American Cemetery.

Overpowering experience...
Questions I've had maybe too lazy to read about  
Joey from GlenCove : 12/7/2017 10:02 am : link
1. After the initial attack on pearl harbor. Why didn't the Japanese invade the island. That would seem like the most opportune time.

2. Why didn't they simultaneously attack midway and invade there?
RE: Questions I've had maybe too lazy to read about  
Jim in Fairfax : 12/7/2017 10:11 am : link
In comment 13728732 Joey from GlenCove said:
Quote:
1. After the initial attack on pearl harbor. Why didn't the Japanese invade the island. That would seem like the most opportune time.

2. Why didn't they simultaneously attack midway and invade there?

Their thinking was American did not want to go to war. By taking out their Pacific fleet in one blow, it would weaken them and make them even less likely to go to war.

They didnít really have the forces for an invasion, and they needed to consolidate their position in Asia, particularly capturing the oil fields in the East Indies. Trying to capture and then defend islands halfway across the ocean never entered their thinking.
RE: Questions I've had maybe too lazy to read about  
BamaBlue : 12/7/2017 10:12 am : link
In comment 13728732 Joey from GlenCove said:
Quote:
1. After the initial attack on pearl harbor. Why didn't the Japanese invade the island. That would seem like the most opportune time.

2. Why didn't they simultaneously attack midway and invade there?


The Japanese miscalculated. They believe the isolationists in America would not allow the Nation to go to war. Many Japanese strategists (not the tactical leaders) saw the U.S. as a paper tiger that did not want to intervene in the Pacific theater with hell breaking loose in Europe.
Thanks for posting  
Sec 103 : 12/7/2017 10:13 am : link
and remembering
RE: RE: Questions I've had maybe too lazy to read about  
Joey from GlenCove : 12/7/2017 10:21 am : link
In comment 13728765 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 13728732 Joey from GlenCove said:


Quote:


1. After the initial attack on pearl harbor. Why didn't the Japanese invade the island. That would seem like the most opportune time.

2. Why didn't they simultaneously attack midway and invade there?



The Japanese miscalculated. They believe the isolationists in America would not allow the Nation to go to war. Many Japanese strategists (not the tactical leaders) saw the U.S. as a paper tiger that did not want to intervene in the Pacific theater with hell breaking loose in Europe.


I have a hard time believing that after being attacked the US wouldn't respond.

Reason i ask about invading hawaii is didnt they eventually go after midway so they can invade hawaii? So why wouldnt they do that at that moment?
Yamamoto was extremely pessimistic about winning the war  
Greg from LI : 12/7/2017 10:23 am : link
*even if* Pearl Harbor succeeded, but he viewed it as the only strategy that gave Japan any chance at all.

The commander of the strike force that carried out the attack, Admiral Nagumo, hated the plan. When the two waves of planes had returned, he decided that the attack had been successful enough despite the American carrier force being at sea, and took off for Japan. Yamamoto was aghast when he learned that the attack had not been pressed further.
RE: RE: Questions I've had maybe too lazy to read about  
njm : 12/7/2017 10:24 am : link
In comment 13728759 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 13728732 Joey from GlenCove said:


Quote:


1. After the initial attack on pearl harbor. Why didn't the Japanese invade the island. That would seem like the most opportune time.

2. Why didn't they simultaneously attack midway and invade there?


Their thinking was American did not want to go to war. By taking out their Pacific fleet in one blow, it would weaken them and make them even less likely to go to war.

They didnít really have the forces for an invasion, and they needed to consolidate their position in Asia, particularly capturing the oil fields in the East Indies. Trying to capture and then defend islands halfway across the ocean never entered their thinking.


In addition they were invading the Philippines, Singapore and New Guinea. Not enough troops to go around and insufficient forces to keep all those supply lines open
no, the Japanese didn't much care about Hawaii  
Greg from LI : 12/7/2017 10:26 am : link
The entire purpose of the attack was to cripple the American Pacific fleet and thus prevent American resistance to Japanese domination of the Far East.
RE: Questions I've had maybe too lazy to read about  
section125 : 12/7/2017 10:30 am : link
In comment 13728732 Joey from GlenCove said:
Quote:
1. After the initial attack on pearl harbor. Why didn't the Japanese invade the island. That would seem like the most opportune time.

2. Why didn't they simultaneously attack midway and invade there?


They never intended to invade. Just shut down the US fleet until they could secure their lines of communication to protect their conquests.

Their biggest fault was not completing Commander Genda's full plan. A 3rd wave was to destroy the dockyard and repair facilities.
Admiral Nagumo feared that the missing carriers were near by and could attack his fleet and ordered the fleet to retire feeling that damage already inflicted would nullify the US fleet as intended.
Haha -  
section125 : 12/7/2017 10:34 am : link
looks like many of us paid attention to the Pearl Harbor attack in History class...
A name generally forgotten today is James O. Richardson  
Greg from LI : 12/7/2017 10:38 am : link
He had been Navy CinC in 1940-41. When Roosevelt had ordered the Pacific fleet to redeploy en masse from San Diego to the small base at Pearl Harbor, Richardson protested that it was a mistake. He was considered the Navy's foremost expert on the Imperial Japanese Navy and he was very worried that the fleet would be a sitting duck for a surprise attack. Roosevelt dismissed him from his post.
RE: Haha -  
njm : 12/7/2017 10:51 am : link
In comment 13728821 section125 said:
Quote:
looks like many of us paid attention to the Pearl Harbor attack in History class...


And many of us had family that served in the Pacific in WWII.
I always love hearing the little stories that change history  
Stu11 : 12/7/2017 11:11 am : link
with these battles. While at PH they said that as a coincidence the base there was expecting a bunch of B52 bombers back from repair that day or so. While the Japanese plan appeared to include flying low enough to not be detected by radar, they were in fact picked up but the person on post thought that it was the US B52's coming back. Imagine if they knew they were Japanese and were intercepted?
Also I saw where on DDay the allies were to take the key bridge simply because Rommel was back in Germany for the day having a birthday party for his wife. The signals got crossed and they didn't get the tanks to the bridge in time.
Japan had already been at full-scale war  
NoPeanutz : 12/7/2017 11:13 am : link
more than ten years before PH. They were way over extended in terms of fuel, steel and manpower. As someone mentioned above, the empire was reaching breaking point, and attacking the United States preemptively in an attempt to intimidate them into neutrality was probably their only play.
RE: RE: Haha -  
section125 : 12/7/2017 11:15 am : link
In comment 13728853 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 13728821 section125 said:


Quote:


looks like many of us paid attention to the Pearl Harbor attack in History class...



And many of us had family that served in the Pacific in WWII.


I'm one of those, too. Old man was USN..
RE: I always love hearing the little stories that change history  
Sec 103 : 12/7/2017 11:17 am : link
In comment 13728906 Stu11 said:
Quote:
with these battles. While at PH they said that as a coincidence the base there was expecting a bunch of B52 bombers back from repair that day or so. While the Japanese plan appeared to include flying low enough to not be detected by radar, they were in fact picked up but the person on post thought that it was the US B52's coming back. Imagine if they knew they were Japanese and were intercepted?
Also I saw where on DDay the allies were to take the key bridge simply because Rommel was back in Germany for the day having a birthday party for his wife. The signals got crossed and they didn't get the tanks to the bridge in time.

No B52s were even available at that time and I don't think the B25 was yet designed...
RE: RE: I always love hearing the little stories that change history  
njm : 12/7/2017 11:24 am : link
In comment 13728916 Sec 103 said:
Quote:
In comment 13728906 Stu11 said:


Quote:


with these battles. While at PH they said that as a coincidence the base there was expecting a bunch of B52 bombers back from repair that day or so. While the Japanese plan appeared to include flying low enough to not be detected by radar, they were in fact picked up but the person on post thought that it was the US B52's coming back. Imagine if they knew they were Japanese and were intercepted?
Also I saw where on DDay the allies were to take the key bridge simply because Rommel was back in Germany for the day having a birthday party for his wife. The signals got crossed and they didn't get the tanks to the bridge in time.


No B52s were even available at that time and I don't think the B25 was yet designed...


It was a flight of B-17s coming in from the West Coast. The B-25 was in service but didn't have the range to fly from the West Coast to Hawaii.
Yeah...  
BamaBlue : 12/7/2017 11:44 am : link
the flight was of B-17's. When radar operators on the Oahu North Shore saw the Japanese first wave, the site reported the tracks, but an Army Air Corps Lieutenant (on temporary duty) at Ft. Shafter believed the radar returns came from the B-17's.
All of the B-17's were ferry aircraft...  
BamaBlue : 12/7/2017 11:46 am : link
they had no armament. They would have been sitting ducks for Japanese Zeros.

The only thing the Japanese had to worry about (they didn't know about the inbound flight) was that the Flying Fortresses would radio ahead after spotting the fleet.
RE: All of the B-17's were ferry aircraft...  
Stu11 : 12/7/2017 12:16 pm : link
In comment 13728975 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
they had no armament. They would have been sitting ducks for Japanese Zeros.

The only thing the Japanese had to worry about (they didn't know about the inbound flight) was that the Flying Fortresses would radio ahead after spotting the fleet.

Yep you guys are right I somehow had B 52's in my head. Thats what I meant if they realized on radar it was Japanese it would have changed everything
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