for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Gil Brandt: Eli is the least of Giants’ worries

Defenderdawg : 12/7/2017 11:22 pm
“It’s beyond injuries, though. The thing I don’t understand, and I know that he has drops, but Evan Engram, who I see as uncoverable, I see him lined up as a blocker. I don’t understand that. And that’s what I mean: If you can change some of the thoughts about how they do things, this is a team that can contend. This team doesn’t have 2-10 personnel. Their players are a lot better than that...”
Link - ( New Window )
To be fair...  
sb from NYT Forum : 12/7/2017 11:45 pm : link
...players like Engram would have required McAdoo to reilaminate his diner menu.
Gil has forgotten more football ...  
Manny in CA : 12/7/2017 11:47 pm : link

Than any of us will ever know ...

I agree, what is Evan Engram doing Greco wrestling 300 pound linemen, it's insane ! The guy is a quintessential possession RECEIVER.

Fix the offensive line, Giants; picking at the top of the draft, this is a Golden Opportunity.
Not Just McAdoo  
Samiam : 12/8/2017 12:08 am : link
Didn’t Coughlin do stuff like that with the TE?
FWIW  
ajr2456 : 12/8/2017 12:10 am : link
He thought Mettenberger was better than Winston and Mariota
Well, I just hope the next coach ...  
Manny in CA : 12/8/2017 12:54 am : link

Is one heck a lot more creative and 100% less stubborn than MAC was.That cost him his job (and he pulled Jerry Reese down with him).

Mac is a very good coach, when all the parts are in place, but he is lost if things change because he's the definition of tunnel vision.

our last two head coaches  
SHO'NUFF : 12/8/2017 1:30 am : link
were stubborn to a fault...you think people would learn to be more fluid by watching Little Bill and his 5 championships
Manny  
GeorgeAdams33 : 12/8/2017 2:24 am : link
It is really the other way around. Jerry Reese took McAdoo down with him and he also saved himself and bought himself more time by taking down some very good coaches including Coughlin, Gilbride, etc.. I also hate that we lost our long time TE coach, Mike Pope, when McAdoo was hired and he ended up on the Cowboy.s staff.
RE: Not Just McAdoo  
ZogZerg : 12/8/2017 6:22 am : link
In comment 13729709 Samiam said:
Quote:
Didn’t Coughlin do stuff like that with the TE?


Dude, we never had a TE like Engram with Coughlin. WTF does Coughlin have to do with this?
Especially puzzling  
Jay in Toronto : 12/8/2017 7:16 am : link
In that our WR corps was decimated and we have blocking TEs that were barely used.
I've  
crick n NC : 12/8/2017 7:28 am : link
Learned here that everyone's opinion carries the same weight. Anyone can evaluate players, we have a ton of player evaluators right here on this forum.
RE: RE: Not Just McAdoo  
EricJ : 12/8/2017 7:45 am : link
In comment 13729762 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
In comment 13729709 Samiam said:


Quote:


Didn’t Coughlin do stuff like that with the TE?



Dude, we never had a TE like Engram with Coughlin. WTF does Coughlin have to do with this?


Well, we had Shockey who also was a mismatch but for some reason Coughlin's offense had him run 8 yards, turn around and stop.
Shockey was under utilized when Coughlin took over  
Rjanyg : 12/8/2017 7:55 am : link
Which is kinda strange when you consider that Cougjlin himself was a H Back of sorts as Syracuse. Parton blocker, part time runner, part time receiver.

Engram is not just a TE, he is a mismatch, and that is how offensive minds should look at him as. Create plays specifically to dictate the match up you want. There was his first TD of the year where he lined up as a FB in the backfield and acted like he was gonna lead block for the RB, Engram then slipped past the LB's and split the safeties for a TD. That is a perfect exampl of why you Should ask him to block at times because it sets up plays like this in the game plan.

With Engram, Shep and OBJ our next HC and OC should be drooling over the opportunity to scheme with this group.
It's largely implicit  
Bill L : 12/8/2017 8:22 am : link
but even so, that's about as searing an indictment of a coach from a peer/professional as I've ever seen.
it's clear that aside from poor communication McAdoo's biggest  
Victor in CT : 12/8/2017 8:24 am : link
problem is his rigidity to the scheme.
Shockey..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/8/2017 8:26 am : link
was a prototype two-way TE who could block but also receive.

You didn't want him predominately split out. It was situational.

also, if you remember, Shockey had to block certain times because the OL was showing cracks.
Not a whole lot of value having a TE that is a downfield mismatch  
Jimmy Googs : 12/8/2017 8:31 am : link
when we have an O-line that doesn't allow the time for that to happen or a QB that no longer wants to stand in and take the hit.

at least for now...
Neither Coughlin nor McAdoo...  
silverfox : 12/8/2017 8:47 am : link
...chose to adapt a system which took advantage of the players available. BOTH were stubborn-ass coaches that insisted on forcing the players adapt to their way of doing things, come hell or high water. That is what I hated about both men.

I hope the next coach knows how to get the most out of what he has...and not force their schemes on players that just can't execute it. Using Engram to block should be a felony offense.
Shockey had two of his best seasons  
an_idol_mind : 12/8/2017 8:52 am : link
under Coughlin, and posted his highest yards per reception in 2005 when he was apparently being underutilized. He averaged right around 65 catches every year under Coughlin, which was higher than any other point in his career outside of a rookie year where he caught 74.
RE: Neither Coughlin nor McAdoo...  
FStubbs : 12/8/2017 8:52 am : link
In comment 13729874 silverfox said:
Quote:
...chose to adapt a system which took advantage of the players available. BOTH were stubborn-ass coaches that insisted on forcing the players adapt to their way of doing things, come hell or high water. That is what I hated about both men.

I hope the next coach knows how to get the most out of what he has...and not force their schemes on players that just can't execute it. Using Engram to block should be a felony offense.


That's one thing I give Brian Billick credit for. He was known as an "offensive wizard", then showed up to a team that had Trent Dilfer as a quarterback and an all time defense. So he played time of possession with Jamal Lewis and Priest Holmes and won games 10-7. He called it the "dark side of defensive football."
RE: RE: RE: Not Just McAdoo  
ZogZerg : 12/8/2017 11:20 am : link
In comment 13729795 EricJ said:
Quote:




Well, we had Shockey who also was a mismatch but for some reason Coughlin's offense had him run 8 yards, turn around and stop.


Shockey is nothing like Engram and Coughlin had him less than 2 years.
Been saying this all year  
RinR : 12/8/2017 11:24 am : link
but I swear I didnt talk to Gil.
RE: RE: Not Just McAdoo  
bigfish703 : 12/8/2017 12:07 pm : link
Coughlin did the exact same thing with Jeremy Shockey, trying to turn him into a blocking TE when Shockey could have been an unstoppable force as a receiver. The biggest fault with both MacAdoo & Coughlin was their rigidity, trying to fit players into their systems & not adjusting the system to the player's strengths.

Let us hope the next Giant coach is more flexable, like Parcells.



Didn’t Coughlin do stuff like that with the TE?



Dude, we never had a TE like Engram with Coughlin. WTF does Coughlin have to do with this? [/quote]
RE: Not a whole lot of value having a TE that is a downfield mismatch  
skifaster : 12/8/2017 12:26 pm : link
In comment 13729834 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
when we have an O-line that doesn't allow the time for that to happen or a QB that no longer wants to stand in and take the hit.

at least for now...



Ding ding ding. No more calls, we have a winner.
Brandt  
XBRONX : 12/8/2017 12:34 pm : link
put Dallas in the crapper for years with terrible drafting in his last years
Shockey was something special ...  
Manny in CA : 12/8/2017 4:24 pm : link

He was the Conrad Dobler of his generation. I've NEVER seen any player who had his helmet pulled off his head more than him; he "gave no quarter and expected none".

And man could he run, at 265-270, he would leave CBs & safeties in his dust. I saw him at Candlestick shoot past al the 49ers. then come back for an under thrown 65 yard pass, turn back around and score a TD.

Put another 35-40 pounds on Engram, all you get is a muscle-bound or fat blob. Don't do it, Giants.
RE: Brandt  
EricJ : 12/8/2017 4:35 pm : link
In comment 13730307 XBRONX said:
Quote:
put Dallas in the crapper for years with terrible drafting in his last years


The George Young/Dan Reeves combo did the same thing
Jesus..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/8/2017 4:44 pm : link
you don't really give a fuck about facts.

Last week you called Kelvin Benjamin a Panther, now you post this??

Quote:
He was the Conrad Dobler of his generation. I've NEVER seen any player who had his helmet pulled off his head more than him; he "gave no quarter and expected none".

And man could he run, at 265-270, he would leave CBs & safeties in his dust. I saw him at Candlestick shoot past al the 49ers. then come back for an under thrown 65 yard pass, turn back around and score a TD.

Put another 35-40 pounds on Engram, all you get is a muscle-bound or fat blob. Don't do it, Giants.


I'll give you a pass hoping you realize Dobler is an OL, but Shockey was 6'5" 250 pounds. Engram is 6'3" 240.

And Shockey's longest reception as a Giant was 59 yards. He had two TD's against the Niners. One was a 32 yard TD and the other was a 2 yard TD.

Fucking ponderous.
This whole discussion is fact free  
HomerJones45 : 12/8/2017 5:06 pm : link
Jake Ballard
Travis Beckum
Martellus Bennett
Brandon Myers
Larry Donnell
Will Tye

Tell us again which one of these had his career ruined by being inflexibly turned into a blocker?
I'm not very bright, but I assume a good offensive coordinator  
CT Charlie : 12/8/2017 6:51 pm : link
needs to be really bright, analytical, decisive, confident and creative. I don't think we've had this combination since Gilbride left. His fatal flaw, I think, was believing that the receivers could learn to master the subtleties of a very complex read-and-react scheme. Some could, some couldn't. Based on the coverage, Eli often threw the ball where the receiver was supposed to be, but he wasn't there. It looked bad.
RE: Manny  
Paulie Walnuts : 12/8/2017 10:55 pm : link
In comment 13729735 GeorgeAdams33 said:
Quote:
It is really the other way around. Jerry Reese took McAdoo down with him and he also saved himself and bought himself more time by taking down some very good coaches including Coughlin, Gilbride, etc.. I also hate that we lost our long time TE coach, Mike Pope, when McAdoo was hired and he ended up on the Cowboy.s staff.
agree with this
I'm not sure I understand how this narrative is going.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/9/2017 1:09 am : link
Engram needs to be able to do the whole job, not just run patterns.

Belichick expects Gronkowski to block. Witten blocks. The best recieving TEs in the sport do it too. Hell, half the complaint people had about Engram when he was drafted was that he wouldn't be any use if he couldn't block.

It's not misuse of personnel to expect your players to be able to do it all and teach your players to handle their positions. Why are we making standard practices in football out to be incompetence?


To add,  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/9/2017 1:12 am : link
Engram already has 50 catches and 6 touchdowns. Any argument that he's being wasted is nonsense. He's going to make the all-rookie team and he's had by any measure a vastly successful season.

OJ Howard has 21 catches on the season.
I'm a wee-bit concerned about you, Fats ...  
Manny in CA : 12/9/2017 1:35 am : link

1. Surgical precision is not a requisite here. When I marvel at how fast Shockey was, for a big man, I don't think a bit of hype hurts anybody (especially about a memory of a game that happened 10 years ago)

2. I DO recall that Dobler was a lineman; I'm simply suggesting that Shockey played with that kind of intensity.

3. I am aware that Benjamin was traded to the Bills, recently - but is there any real harm with referring to him with the Panthers (where he's played until recently)

We're not going to affect anybody's ability to earn a living with our banter here (or mental state). At least, I sincerely hope not.





LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/9/2017 8:25 am : link
Quote:
1. Surgical precision is not a requisite here. When I marvel at how fast Shockey was, for a big man, I don't think a bit of hype hurts anybody (especially about a memory of a game that happened 10 years ago)


"Surgical precision"?? WTF? It's simple. Just say you thought shockey was fast for a big guy. That's cool.

Saying you saw him run past several Niners to catch a 65 yard pass at a weight 20 pounds heavier than he was really doesn't further the discussion or even add anything except some really fucked up memory recollection. Just for shit and giggles, I saw the TD pass he caught against the niners. It was at the end of a half on a play where he was uncovered for 32 yards.

It's really easy - if you don't know specifics - don't post them. Eliminates any fancy horseshit about "surgical precision". Just an actual account would be a whole lot better.
Back to the Corner