stop it with the "we need fresh ideas and fresh people" comments?
How the fuck does anyone know it is true and it is nothing more than a cliche.
Bringing Reeves and McAdoo into the organizations without previous ties didn't pay the best of dividends.
I don't know if we need to stay in house or not to find the right person, but to spout off the idea that Mara never ventures outside of the organization or that "new blood" is the only way to go is just repeating blind optimism.
He is young and I like the long term vision. I like the football pedigree and I like what the Packers do with personnel in terms of draft and develop. The second part of that is obviously having the right head coach and coaches in place, but that is a great way to build.
stop it with the "we need fresh ideas and fresh people" comments?
How the fuck does anyone know it is true and it is nothing more than a cliche.
Bringing Reeves and McAdoo into the organizations without previous ties didn't pay the best of dividends.
I don't know if we need to stay in house or not to find the right person, but to spout off the idea that Mara never ventures outside of the organization or that "new blood" is the only way to go is just repeating blind optimism.
Take your tampon out and relax. This team has not been good since our last SB win almost 6 years ago. But listen if you’re good with how we have drafted and the players we bring in than i guess you would be happy with whoever
stop it with the "we need fresh ideas and fresh people" comments?
How the fuck does anyone know it is true and it is nothing more than a cliche.
Bringing Reeves and McAdoo into the organizations without previous ties didn't pay the best of dividends.
I don't know if we need to stay in house or not to find the right person, but to spout off the idea that Mara never ventures outside of the organization or that "new blood" is the only way to go is just repeating blind optimism.
- McAdoo was an attempt to patch organizational rot that made the rot accelerate unfortunately.
- Reeves was successful the first year, then had to contend with George Young, whom the game had passed by. The fact Reeves picked right back up with a Superbowl team in Atlanta proves he wasn't the problem.
I mean, I think it's self-evident the whole organization is messed up, not just Reese and McAdoo. Getting Gettleman or someone like him would keep the same scouts, same board, and maybe even Ross and Chris Mara in place. (Both of them need to go.)
If they do this, it'll continue my suspicions that Chris Mara is the true GM no matter what face wears the title.
I am not necessarily advocating this since Bill is obviously the most important part of their continual success. However, I see a lot of tooth gnashing about the possibility of hiring McDaniels on here. While his tenure as coach of Denver is certainly uninspiring to say the least, the article points out Belichick's ties to and respect for the Giants. I would assume that the team owners and leadership would be able to get the inside scoop on McDaniels to find out if he has learned from those experiences and if Bill thinks he could be a successful head guy in the league, or if he thinks he's probably best suited as a coordinator.
Again, I'm not sure he'd be my first choice, but that little tidbit is overlooked and it would make me at least a little more comfortable with the hire.
Anyone else surprised there is no one from the Steelers organization on the list. I honestly thought we would use the Mara Rooney connection to maybe snag their second in line over there. They are one of the most consistent teams year in and year out in the NFL, and I would love to be more like them in the grand scheme.
I am not necessarily advocating this since Bill is obviously the most important part of their continual success. However, I see a lot of tooth gnashing about the possibility of hiring McDaniels on here. While his tenure as coach of Denver is certainly uninspiring to say the least, the article points out Belichick's ties to and respect for the Giants. I would assume that the team owners and leadership would be able to get the inside scoop on McDaniels to find out if he has learned from those experiences and if Bill thinks he could be a successful head guy in the league, or if he thinks he's probably best suited as a coordinator.
Again, I'm not sure he'd be my first choice, but that little tidbit is overlooked and it would make me at least a little more comfortable with the hire.
I'm not completely against McDaniels. Last year when Brady did time for cheating, the offense didn't miss a beat, which proves at the very least he can do it without Brady. Without Belichick? Who knows, but even if not here, he deserves another chance at being a head coach somewhere.
This team has not been good since our last SB win almost 6 years ago. But listen if you’re good with how we have drafted and the players we bring in than i guess you would be happy with whoever
You mean coinciding with the time that Gettleman left?
I'm not fine with whomever, but the way it is nearly stated as fact that people coming in as "new blood" is the only way to proceed is ridiculous (as is the idea Chris Mara is going to be fired - which only shows what kind of awareness exists).
Projecting this season as being indicative of an organization that is fully incompetent is a mistake. I'll go for hires that will have success and that make us competitive. If they come from outside - great. If they come from within - great.
I just don't get the insistence that one way is assured to be better than the other.
should be on the list. He missed on the QB but he infused that team with a lot of talent. 20 of his 24 picks have the chance to be multi year contributors
Anyone else surprised there is no one from the Steelers organization on the list. I honestly thought we would use the Mara Rooney connection to maybe snag their second in line over there. They are one of the most consistent teams year in and year out in the NFL..
Agree with this..
Not that impressed with Packers roster. Steelers are very consistent.
He is young and I like the long term vision. I like the football pedigree and I like what the Packers do with personnel in terms of draft and develop. The second part of that is obviously having the right head coach and coaches in place, but that is a great way to build.
The Packers roster sucks outside of Rodgers. No thanks.
Wolf is not in charge of the packers. He has ID'd talent in his role. The team is a contender year in and year out and based on losing Rodgers the fact that they still have a playoff shot tells me they are in good shape.
should be on the list. He missed on the QB but he infused that team with a lot of talent. 20 of his 24 picks have the chance to be multi year contributors
Dumbest assessment ever.. They have shit for talent and had a TON of picks.. Those picks made the team but look at the team... They played Moneyball in the NFL and failed horribly doing it.
around the NFL that Marc Ross and Chris Mara are always described as good/great talent evaluators (or similar praise) but the BBI faithful call them useless and incompetent?
How do any of the GM listed meet the Rooney Rule? I don't generally pay attention to other execs so I don't know if any of the listed GM candidates meet the rule.
He is young and I like the long term vision. I like the football pedigree and I like what the Packers do with personnel in terms of draft and develop. The second part of that is obviously having the right head coach and coaches in place, but that is a great way to build.
Without Rodgers, a "franchise" quaterback in the truest meaning of the word in that he elevates the play of those around him, Green Bay is a mediocre lot.
Choose somebody from a recent upstart, a young program on the make. Those profile as talent clusters , where 2 or 3 guys have combined to build a program.
Of course draft position and schedule play their role . Same principle as banking on a coordinator promotion, who can't bring his best personnel with him .
“An excellent talent evaluator around the league?”
Based on what?
Lets face it - the Giants have been a laughingstock for most of the last 6 years, largely due to some of the worst collections of talent you’ll ever see. And the poor drafting, particularly the mid-rounds, completely bottomed out the roster. Which then caused them to spend $200M in free agency getting a bunch of mercenaries instead of homegrown talent.
Rodgers has nothing to do with Wolf. That's on Ted Thompson their current GM. He doesn't sign free agents. Also any team that loses their starting QB sucks. Especially when it's one of the best QBs ever. From what I've read Wolf is the most sought after personnel guy in football.
I don’t get the shit he gets around here. Probably wouldn’t be my first choice, but the Giants could do a lot worse.
He understands how to build a team through the draft. He knows how to find value in FA. He’s definitely in the camp of, “it’s better to let a guy go a year early than a year too late” — which is what most around here would subscribe to. He won’t let the organization get crushed by bad contracts.
The Giants need a GM with the appropriate philosophy to get the organization back on track. Gettlemen has a sound approach and philosophy.
is mostly about two things;
1. Good Coaching Staff (See BB in NE, Tomlin in Pitt, Carroll in Sea)
2. Good QB (Brady, Ben, Wilson) GB with Rodgers
Giants have a chance to draft the next Franchise QB - getting that right, along with an improvement in coaching, and two years from now they should be contending for the division title this time of year.
is mostly about two things;
1. Good Coaching Staff (See BB in NE, Tomlin in Pitt, Carroll in Sea)
2. Good QB (Brady, Ben, Wilson) GB with Rodgers
Giants have a chance to draft the next Franchise QB - getting that right, along with an improvement in coaching, and two years from now they should be contending for the division title this time of year.
The evidence is right there for anyone to see - when he took over the draft board, the Giants' drafting went down the toilet, and that's after he was canned by two other organizations.
Rodgers has nothing to do with Wolf. That's on Ted Thompson their current GM. He doesn't sign free agents. Also any team that loses their starting QB sucks. Especially when it's one of the best QBs ever. From what I've read Wolf is the most sought after personnel guy in football.
^^Agree with this. Wolf sounds like a good option.
stop it with the "we need fresh ideas and fresh people" comments?
How the fuck does anyone know it is true and it is nothing more than a cliche.
Bringing Reeves and McAdoo into the organizations without previous ties didn't pay the best of dividends.
I don't know if we need to stay in house or not to find the right person, but to spout off the idea that Mara never ventures outside of the organization or that "new blood" is the only way to go is just repeating blind optimism.
What we do know is that the Giants have a poor roster. What they have,really, are receivers, when they are healthy. That's about it. You can say the DTs are are stout against the run , but when you include the play of the defensive ends, who are highly unproductive , you cannot claim that the Dline is a team strength. The secondary would appear solid when healthy . For all of Apple's problems this season his seasonal grade by Focus is 76, which is C+. But then you consider the uneven play of Collins and Thompson's mediocre beginning . Do you consider that unit a strength?
The RBs are adequate . Nobody worries about playing them . At QB we have Eli's endless autumns. Nobody is remotely concerned about facing him. The offensive line was Reese's last gamble. He went the rent-a-line route . It will have to be completely rebuilt .
What does any of this have to say with what you wrote? I think it means that they have to go outside the program to recover . The answers cannot be found within. The injuries aren't an excuse because many of those guys can't play.
What was different in '83, the last truly calamitous season , is that the answers were there to be found on the team. At least many of them . This team is complete bullshit right now. Recognize it for what it is.
Wolf/Packers is their overall team building philosophy of building thru the draft. I believe the Pack have more drafted players on their roster than anybody. Thats how u build culture & something the fans can invest in.
Now the WCO and finesse over power stuff GB does is hopefully not Eliot’s vision. If he can build an East Coast power football O, welcome aboard.
Retro - I generally agree with you, but is interesting to me is whether a different coach could get more out of the current roster. We all/mostly agree that BM was a train wreck and football pros have broken down his schemes and deemed them abysmal, so is the roster that bad, or do we just need better coaching?
the truth is probably both which is why I am happy Reese is gone, but I am not sure we should be so quick to simply write off everyone on this team.
FMIC - you are right that there is no one absolutely right path... but there definitely is a feeling that we have been many years with the same basic group of people in the same basic organizational structure. Yes, we have made little tweaks here and there but by and large no major changes have happened. So it is natural for people to want a fresh start, rather than recycling the same people we have seen in Jints Central the past few years or in previous iterations.
Doesn't mean it will be the right decision but certainly you can appreciate why people are calling for new blood, no?
I'm disappointed not to see George Paton from the Vikings. I think he would be a great hire.
agree. he covers up how truly flawed that offensive scheme is.
Don’t want Ross but we have had most luck when either promoting from within or bringing someone back.
Quote:
Besides Gettleman/Ross/Abrams. We need to stop bringing in people from the past. Need fresh ideas and fresh leadership
I'm disappointed not to see George Paton from the Vikings. I think he would be a great hire.
Agree.
He and Kirchner would be my two preferred.
How the fuck does anyone know it is true and it is nothing more than a cliche.
Bringing Reeves and McAdoo into the organizations without previous ties didn't pay the best of dividends.
I don't know if we need to stay in house or not to find the right person, but to spout off the idea that Mara never ventures outside of the organization or that "new blood" is the only way to go is just repeating blind optimism.
Heard he’s tight with Josh McDaniel and they could go somewhere as a package
FWIW
How the fuck does anyone know it is true and it is nothing more than a cliche.
Bringing Reeves and McAdoo into the organizations without previous ties didn't pay the best of dividends.
I don't know if we need to stay in house or not to find the right person, but to spout off the idea that Mara never ventures outside of the organization or that "new blood" is the only way to go is just repeating blind optimism.
Take your tampon out and relax. This team has not been good since our last SB win almost 6 years ago. But listen if you’re good with how we have drafted and the players we bring in than i guess you would be happy with whoever
How the fuck does anyone know it is true and it is nothing more than a cliche.
Bringing Reeves and McAdoo into the organizations without previous ties didn't pay the best of dividends.
I don't know if we need to stay in house or not to find the right person, but to spout off the idea that Mara never ventures outside of the organization or that "new blood" is the only way to go is just repeating blind optimism.
- McAdoo was an attempt to patch organizational rot that made the rot accelerate unfortunately.
- Reeves was successful the first year, then had to contend with George Young, whom the game had passed by. The fact Reeves picked right back up with a Superbowl team in Atlanta proves he wasn't the problem.
I mean, I think it's self-evident the whole organization is messed up, not just Reese and McAdoo. Getting Gettleman or someone like him would keep the same scouts, same board, and maybe even Ross and Chris Mara in place. (Both of them need to go.)
If they do this, it'll continue my suspicions that Chris Mara is the true GM no matter what face wears the title.
Again, I'm not sure he'd be my first choice, but that little tidbit is overlooked and it would make me at least a little more comfortable with the hire.
Anyone else surprised there is no one from the Steelers organization on the list. I honestly thought we would use the Mara Rooney connection to maybe snag their second in line over there. They are one of the most consistent teams year in and year out in the NFL, and I would love to be more like them in the grand scheme.
Again, I'm not sure he'd be my first choice, but that little tidbit is overlooked and it would make me at least a little more comfortable with the hire.
I'm not completely against McDaniels. Last year when Brady did time for cheating, the offense didn't miss a beat, which proves at the very least he can do it without Brady. Without Belichick? Who knows, but even if not here, he deserves another chance at being a head coach somewhere.
You mean coinciding with the time that Gettleman left?
I'm not fine with whomever, but the way it is nearly stated as fact that people coming in as "new blood" is the only way to proceed is ridiculous (as is the idea Chris Mara is going to be fired - which only shows what kind of awareness exists).
Projecting this season as being indicative of an organization that is fully incompetent is a mistake. I'll go for hires that will have success and that make us competitive. If they come from outside - great. If they come from within - great.
I just don't get the insistence that one way is assured to be better than the other.
That concerns me when considering a GM candidate from that program who would most likely aim to bring McDaniels here.
McAdoo was a mistake even though they had 2 years to figure out that he was unimaginative and couldn’t relate to players or media.
Anyone else surprised there is no one from the Steelers organization on the list. I honestly thought we would use the Mara Rooney connection to maybe snag their second in line over there. They are one of the most consistent teams year in and year out in the NFL..
Agree with this..
Not that impressed with Packers roster. Steelers are very consistent.
The Packers roster sucks outside of Rodgers. No thanks.
I DONT WANT GETTLEMEN
Dumbest assessment ever.. They have shit for talent and had a TON of picks.. Those picks made the team but look at the team... They played Moneyball in the NFL and failed horribly doing it.
That's alright??
Holy shit.
How do any of the GM listed meet the Rooney Rule? I don't generally pay attention to other execs so I don't know if any of the listed GM candidates meet the rule.
That's laughable.
And yes, Green Bay has hung in there without Rodgers. No moral victories but could have easily beaten Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh without him.
Without Rodgers, a "franchise" quaterback in the truest meaning of the word in that he elevates the play of those around him, Green Bay is a mediocre lot.
Choose somebody from a recent upstart, a young program on the make. Those profile as talent clusters , where 2 or 3 guys have combined to build a program.
Of course draft position and schedule play their role . Same principle as banking on a coordinator promotion, who can't bring his best personnel with him .
Based on what?
Lets face it - the Giants have been a laughingstock for most of the last 6 years, largely due to some of the worst collections of talent you’ll ever see. And the poor drafting, particularly the mid-rounds, completely bottomed out the roster. Which then caused them to spend $200M in free agency getting a bunch of mercenaries instead of homegrown talent.
We got 1 great year from them and now...?
What a crock! He should be gone too!
He understands how to build a team through the draft. He knows how to find value in FA. He’s definitely in the camp of, “it’s better to let a guy go a year early than a year too late” — which is what most around here would subscribe to. He won’t let the organization get crushed by bad contracts.
The Giants need a GM with the appropriate philosophy to get the organization back on track. Gettlemen has a sound approach and philosophy.
1. Good Coaching Staff (See BB in NE, Tomlin in Pitt, Carroll in Sea)
2. Good QB (Brady, Ben, Wilson) GB with Rodgers
Giants have a chance to draft the next Franchise QB - getting that right, along with an improvement in coaching, and two years from now they should be contending for the division title this time of year.
1. Good Coaching Staff (See BB in NE, Tomlin in Pitt, Carroll in Sea)
2. Good QB (Brady, Ben, Wilson) GB with Rodgers
Giants have a chance to draft the next Franchise QB - getting that right, along with an improvement in coaching, and two years from now they should be contending for the division title this time of year.
well put...
I think would be a perfect fit here.
^^Agree with this. Wolf sounds like a good option.
How the fuck does anyone know it is true and it is nothing more than a cliche.
Bringing Reeves and McAdoo into the organizations without previous ties didn't pay the best of dividends.
I don't know if we need to stay in house or not to find the right person, but to spout off the idea that Mara never ventures outside of the organization or that "new blood" is the only way to go is just repeating blind optimism.
What we do know is that the Giants have a poor roster. What they have,really, are receivers, when they are healthy. That's about it. You can say the DTs are are stout against the run , but when you include the play of the defensive ends, who are highly unproductive , you cannot claim that the Dline is a team strength. The secondary would appear solid when healthy . For all of Apple's problems this season his seasonal grade by Focus is 76, which is C+. But then you consider the uneven play of Collins and Thompson's mediocre beginning . Do you consider that unit a strength?
The RBs are adequate . Nobody worries about playing them . At QB we have Eli's endless autumns. Nobody is remotely concerned about facing him. The offensive line was Reese's last gamble. He went the rent-a-line route . It will have to be completely rebuilt .
What does any of this have to say with what you wrote? I think it means that they have to go outside the program to recover . The answers cannot be found within. The injuries aren't an excuse because many of those guys can't play.
What was different in '83, the last truly calamitous season , is that the answers were there to be found on the team. At least many of them . This team is complete bullshit right now. Recognize it for what it is.
Atlanta jumps to mind the amazing 2016 play action offense.
I would maybe start with the 2016 and 2017 run stats leading teams, look at what systems they run and who put those lines and units together.
Now the WCO and finesse over power stuff GB does is hopefully not Eliot’s vision. If he can build an East Coast power football O, welcome aboard.
Well, the Giants better act fast, before he croaks!
the truth is probably both which is why I am happy Reese is gone, but I am not sure we should be so quick to simply write off everyone on this team.
FMIC - you are right that there is no one absolutely right path... but there definitely is a feeling that we have been many years with the same basic group of people in the same basic organizational structure. Yes, we have made little tweaks here and there but by and large no major changes have happened. So it is natural for people to want a fresh start, rather than recycling the same people we have seen in Jints Central the past few years or in previous iterations.
Doesn't mean it will be the right decision but certainly you can appreciate why people are calling for new blood, no?