Anyone else surprised there is no one from the Steelers organization on the list. I honestly thought we would use the Mara Rooney connection to maybe snag their second in line over there. They are one of the most consistent teams year in and year out in the NFL, and I would love to be more like them in the grand scheme.
I am surprised -- the Steelers draft very well. Seems like every draft they take at least a few players that I wish the Giants had taken.
you can paint the narrative any way you like. Maybe the 11-5 season was the pivot where it was all going to turn around until the move wrecked everything or maybe it was a fluke. I've always believed it was the latter and pretty sure that's how most Browns fans view it. The 1996 Ravens went 4-12 for what it's worth.
RE: RE: RE: the BB failed in Cleveland thing is so wrong
His record in Cleveland was 36-44. Aside from the playoff appearance that you cherry picked he had a losing record every season in Cleveland.
Fact checking is your friend.
He took over a 3-13 team of graybeards, went 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, then 11-5 and a playoff win. Sudden turnarounds were a lot harder to come by back then before true free agency. They were 4-4, I believe, when Modell announced the move, which pretty much destroyed the season. They went 1-7 after that.
Everyone also seems to forget that BB helped teach Ozzie Newsome, who went on to build the team that won the SB for the Ravens. and that build started in earnest in the 1996 draft with Jonathan Odgen and Ray Lewis.
You can't judge him solely on his overall record. As Greg said, he took over a 3-13 team! And if you look at the roster he inherited, you'll know why they were 3-13.
He had a mess at QB in his 3rd season and I believe Bernie Kosar, who was nearing his end, was traded during the season.
BB then took what many would consider an underachieving (at the time) Vinny Testeverde and the Browns to the playoffs in his 4th season and led them to their only playoff victory in the last 28 years. 28 f-ing years! And they still didn't have a great roster.
I think you have to throw his fifth season out of the equation to be fair. He lost his starting QB (Vinny) before the '95 season even started and then there was the Modell clusterf*ck of moving the franchise.
I think a reasonable person could see that BB could've been in the process of turning the franchise around if given a little patience, especially considering the roster he inherited, QB injury, franchise move, etc.
My guess is knowledgeable Browns fans wish BB was given more patience (and of course that the Browns never left after '95).
the street is that Accorsi has his eye on a relatively under the radar candidate. Someone who goes by the pseudonym Anak? Apparently, he spotted Ernie talking on his phone a few years ago, followed him throughout midtown Manhattan for a number of blocks and showed the courage to introduce himself. That interaction has stuck with Accorsi and now the Yeshiva U law grad and Courtney Cox doppelganger is right in the mix for his dream job.
whatever you think of his time in CLE, he clearly is one of the all time greats now.
No, just think it's shallow thinking to say that he was a failure in CLE.
It's not like I'm the Pres. of his fan club, I just think there were a lot of factors out of his control, e.g., the crappy roster he inherited, the franchise move, etc.
And as others have said, not only was it more difficult to turn around a team quickly in those days, they didn't have years of high draft picks on the roster, like they do now. They aged and bottomed out quickly, making it even more difficult to rebuild.
how will people on this board feel if Spags gets the HC job.
while perhaps he has learned from his mistakes in st Louis and I like him as a coordinator, there is a risk that appointing spags would fall into an incumbency bias. the giants need to open the piggy bank and cast the new broad and wide and find the best candidate available. McAdoo was a mistake that was made thinking that continuity would be helpful. I think the Giants are going to go for a big name.
I was in a bookstore many years ago and I saw a book about Jimmy Johnson. As I unzipped and prepared to urinate on it I noticed that the introduction was written by none other than Bill Parcells. So I tucked back in and gave it a quick read, wondering what Tuna would have to say about JJ.
He basically said, "I knew JJ would be a successful coach in the NFL. He had a system (philosophy, whatever the exact word was) that was proven to work, and knew how to execute that system by getting the right people in place, and teaching them to play in that system."
This is what we need. We need someone who has a coherent understanding and system, an understanding of what is needed at each position, and can communicate with a GM on how to get the right people to man it, and can teach players to run it.
I am a believer in equifinality. That is, there are many paths to the same outcome. You can win with power football. You can win with speed. You can win with the WCO and you can win with the spread attack. But, to win with any of them,you have to be great at putting it all in place so it is coherent. And know the system's weaknesses that will be attacked and how to counter move.
I remember in the Tuna/Simms heyday, people would know exactly what we were going to do on O, they just couldn't stop it because we were very good at doing it.
RE: RE: Is someone suggesting BB is not a good coach?
whatever you think of his time in CLE, he clearly is one of the all time greats now.
No, just think it's shallow thinking to say that he was a failure in CLE.
It's not like I'm the Pres. of his fan club, I just think there were a lot of factors out of his control, e.g., the crappy roster he inherited, the franchise move, etc.
And as others have said, not only was it more difficult to turn around a team quickly in those days, they didn't have years of high draft picks on the roster, like they do now. They aged and bottomed out quickly, making it even more difficult to rebuild.
Ah, the big blue goggles strike again.
I never said he was a failure, but he was hardly a success. He had a losing record, that's not success. Yes, some things worked against him. They always do. Shit happens. I get it.
The point is that just because McDaniels didn't set the world in fire in Denver doesn't mean he won't have success in NY. Belichick, widely considered the best of all time, didn't set the world on fire in Cleveland. He had a losing record.
Everything is black and white around here. Belichick is a great coach, that doesn t mean everything he has ever done is perfect.
LakeGeorge Re. Everything is black and white around here.
and compare his time there to McDaniels in Denver?? Those two situations have absolutely nothing in common other than that they ended in a firing.
Yeah, you're right, McDaniels was better earlier than Lil' Bill. Perhaps if the Broncos gave McDaniels 4 seasons to win he would've been a success. Bill got 5 seasons in Cleveland, and the first 3 seasons were all losing seasons. McDaniels went 8-8 his first year, then they pulled the plug on him after a 3-9 start year 2.
Not sure if your narrative is that Bill Belicheck didn't fail because he had one really good year out of 5 and then got fired because of Modell and the move, but if that is the narrative, it's a wrong one. Belicheck went 11-5 his 4th season and then went 5-11 his last season...he likely would not have survived that with a lot of teams, one winning season out of 5?
McDaniels could've done that if the Broncos didn't let him go after only 12 games in his 2nd year. Yes, there was turmoil with players, but that was a quick trigger and it doesn't mean he isn't a great candidate today, which he sure is. For Belicheck to entrust his offense to him for so long, it means something. For him to have earned a head coaching job as young as he was, that means something, too...that he was doing it the right way.
Quick turnarounds that are common now were rare in that timeframe - and having around a .500 record for the Browns, then and now is pretty damn good.
Anyone else surprised there is no one from the Steelers organization on the list. I honestly thought we would use the Mara Rooney connection to maybe snag their second in line over there. They are one of the most consistent teams year in and year out in the NFL, and I would love to be more like them in the grand scheme.
I am surprised -- the Steelers draft very well. Seems like every draft they take at least a few players that I wish the Giants had taken.
You want failing? Its McAdoo, here.
Quote:
His record in Cleveland was 36-44. Aside from the playoff appearance that you cherry picked he had a losing record every season in Cleveland.
Fact checking is your friend.
He took over a 3-13 team of graybeards, went 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, then 11-5 and a playoff win. Sudden turnarounds were a lot harder to come by back then before true free agency. They were 4-4, I believe, when Modell announced the move, which pretty much destroyed the season. They went 1-7 after that.
Everyone also seems to forget that BB helped teach Ozzie Newsome, who went on to build the team that won the SB for the Ravens. and that build started in earnest in the 1996 draft with Jonathan Odgen and Ray Lewis.
He had a mess at QB in his 3rd season and I believe Bernie Kosar, who was nearing his end, was traded during the season.
BB then took what many would consider an underachieving (at the time) Vinny Testeverde and the Browns to the playoffs in his 4th season and led them to their only playoff victory in the last 28 years. 28 f-ing years! And they still didn't have a great roster.
I think you have to throw his fifth season out of the equation to be fair. He lost his starting QB (Vinny) before the '95 season even started and then there was the Modell clusterf*ck of moving the franchise.
I think a reasonable person could see that BB could've been in the process of turning the franchise around if given a little patience, especially considering the roster he inherited, QB injury, franchise move, etc.
My guess is knowledgeable Browns fans wish BB was given more patience (and of course that the Browns never left after '95).
No, just think it's shallow thinking to say that he was a failure in CLE.
It's not like I'm the Pres. of his fan club, I just think there were a lot of factors out of his control, e.g., the crappy roster he inherited, the franchise move, etc.
And as others have said, not only was it more difficult to turn around a team quickly in those days, they didn't have years of high draft picks on the roster, like they do now. They aged and bottomed out quickly, making it even more difficult to rebuild.
He basically said, "I knew JJ would be a successful coach in the NFL. He had a system (philosophy, whatever the exact word was) that was proven to work, and knew how to execute that system by getting the right people in place, and teaching them to play in that system."
This is what we need. We need someone who has a coherent understanding and system, an understanding of what is needed at each position, and can communicate with a GM on how to get the right people to man it, and can teach players to run it.
I am a believer in equifinality. That is, there are many paths to the same outcome. You can win with power football. You can win with speed. You can win with the WCO and you can win with the spread attack. But, to win with any of them,you have to be great at putting it all in place so it is coherent. And know the system's weaknesses that will be attacked and how to counter move.
I remember in the Tuna/Simms heyday, people would know exactly what we were going to do on O, they just couldn't stop it because we were very good at doing it.
Quote:
whatever you think of his time in CLE, he clearly is one of the all time greats now.
No, just think it's shallow thinking to say that he was a failure in CLE.
It's not like I'm the Pres. of his fan club, I just think there were a lot of factors out of his control, e.g., the crappy roster he inherited, the franchise move, etc.
And as others have said, not only was it more difficult to turn around a team quickly in those days, they didn't have years of high draft picks on the roster, like they do now. They aged and bottomed out quickly, making it even more difficult to rebuild.
Ah, the big blue goggles strike again.
I never said he was a failure, but he was hardly a success. He had a losing record, that's not success. Yes, some things worked against him. They always do. Shit happens. I get it.
The point is that just because McDaniels didn't set the world in fire in Denver doesn't mean he won't have success in NY. Belichick, widely considered the best of all time, didn't set the world on fire in Cleveland. He had a losing record.
Everything is black and white around here. Belichick is a great coach, that doesn t mean everything he has ever done is perfect.
Recognizing the many other factors involved is the opposite of "black and white".
At this point, best to agree to disagree.
Yeah, you're right, McDaniels was better earlier than Lil' Bill. Perhaps if the Broncos gave McDaniels 4 seasons to win he would've been a success. Bill got 5 seasons in Cleveland, and the first 3 seasons were all losing seasons. McDaniels went 8-8 his first year, then they pulled the plug on him after a 3-9 start year 2.
Not sure if your narrative is that Bill Belicheck didn't fail because he had one really good year out of 5 and then got fired because of Modell and the move, but if that is the narrative, it's a wrong one. Belicheck went 11-5 his 4th season and then went 5-11 his last season...he likely would not have survived that with a lot of teams, one winning season out of 5?
McDaniels could've done that if the Broncos didn't let him go after only 12 games in his 2nd year. Yes, there was turmoil with players, but that was a quick trigger and it doesn't mean he isn't a great candidate today, which he sure is. For Belicheck to entrust his offense to him for so long, it means something. For him to have earned a head coaching job as young as he was, that means something, too...that he was doing it the right way.