understood, but again, nobody in their right mind who was just hired as a GM by a franchise that badly needs a turnaround in both talent and attitude, is going to take this guy. Let alone the Giants, who with a pick this high, must be signed off on by Mara. No way John Mara would ever take this kid. Especially with Beckham here and everything they've had to deal with regarding his outbursts and taunting shit.
understood, but again, nobody in their right mind who was just hired as a GM by a franchise that badly needs a turnaround in both talent and attitude, is going to take this guy. Let alone the Giants, who with a pick this high, must be signed off on by Mara. No way John Mara would ever take this kid. Especially with Beckham here and everything they've had to deal with regarding his outbursts and taunting shit.
I can see that, as long as "in your might mind" means passing on kid that will lead the league in passing and win championships. Take Rosen and draft the next Ryan, Stafford or Rivers...Very good but missing "it" I see Mayfield with Rodgers, Brees, Wilson and Young...We see it different. I would be happy with Darnold but isn't as ready as Mayfield. I see Mayfield playing like Wilson did as a rokkie with these offensive weapons....OK Flowers, let speed rusher beat you outside and I will run through that hole for 15 or 20 yards and slide/run out of bounds. We can do it until he learns.
understood, but again, nobody in their right mind who was just hired as a GM by a franchise that badly needs a turnaround in both talent and attitude, is going to take this guy. Let alone the Giants, who with a pick this high, must be signed off on by Mara. No way John Mara would ever take this kid. Especially with Beckham here and everything they've had to deal with regarding his outbursts and taunting shit.
I can see that, as long as "in your might mind" means passing on kid that will lead the league in passing and win championships. Take Rosen and draft the next Ryan, Stafford or Rivers...Very good but missing "it" I see Mayfield with Rodgers, Brees, Wilson and Young...We see it different. I would be happy with Darnold but isn't as ready as Mayfield. I see Mayfield playing like Wilson did as a rokkie with these offensive weapons....OK Flowers, let speed rusher beat you outside and I will run through that hole for 15 or 20 yards and slide/run out of bounds. We can do it until he learns.
It's interesting how you grouped those QBs so as to support your choice of Mayfield based on no facts or scouting whatsoever.
Whatsmore, we can make the correct choice- whether Darnold, Rosen or Mayfield and the likelihood of either of them leading the league in passing anytime soon is absurd.
OK Flowers, let speed rusher beat you outside and I will run through that hole for 15 or 20 yards and slide/run out of bounds. We can do it until he learns.
This isn't Madden. There are real human beings on the other side of the ball who would construct a game plan to counter tendencies. You aren't running Mayfield to the sideline for 15-20 yards with any regularity. I assure you.
understood, but again, nobody in their right mind who was just hired as a GM by a franchise that badly needs a turnaround in both talent and attitude, is going to take this guy. Let alone the Giants, who with a pick this high, must be signed off on by Mara. No way John Mara would ever take this kid. Especially with Beckham here and everything they've had to deal with regarding his outbursts and taunting shit.
I can see that, as long as "in your might mind" means passing on kid that will lead the league in passing and win championships. Take Rosen and draft the next Ryan, Stafford or Rivers...Very good but missing "it" I see Mayfield with Rodgers, Brees, Wilson and Young...We see it different. I would be happy with Darnold but isn't as ready as Mayfield. I see Mayfield playing like Wilson did as a rokkie with these offensive weapons....OK Flowers, let speed rusher beat you outside and I will run through that hole for 15 or 20 yards and slide/run out of bounds. We can do it until he learns.
It's interesting how you grouped those QBs so as to support your choice of Mayfield based on no facts or scouting whatsoever.
Whatsmore, we can make the correct choice- whether Darnold, Rosen or Mayfield and the likelihood of either of them leading the league in passing anytime soon is absurd.
Jesus man, this is all speculation, it is what makes this fun. If you think facts exists to prove any of this, we cannot have a rational conversation. There would be no busts. That said. I can throw. So can most of them at the top. I think this is a great QB year. I covet accuracy. Hitting someone with elite speed in stride across or down the field is hard in shorts. Posts are a little easier, angle helps. Vertical and perpendicular are hard. Mayfield can do both on the run.
So the play where we ask our LT to ole the speed rusher by him was what...speculation?
It is something I have watched Wilson do. I have seen him do it a few times to start a game. Mayfield has the athletic ability to do this. You don't win the game easy peazy. However, exploiting something that is a weakness for us and strength of the opposing DE is...nice. I get it, you don't like some things about Mayfield. Your concerns are legit. I just see the potential for greatness, you can't "know" I just "feel" different watching him over the other QBs potentially available. I am passionate about it, that's all, sorry if I get ahead of myself.
i think you are missing my point. Nobody is doubting Mayfield's athleticism and improvisation in the pocket. He definitely has that. What he does not have right at this very moment, is the maturity or decision making to be a franchise quarterback and a leader of a professional football team. To roll the dice on him when you are coming off Eli Manning, would be a huge, huge, huge gamble that I don't think a GM who was just hired as the New York Giants GM to turn around their franchise would be willing to make.
Mayfield won't a huge success in the NFL. He certainly could be. But there are red flags galore with this guy. To take him as your next QB of the franchise....man. You'd have to trust this kid like your son to make that pick based on some of the immaturity traits he has shown in college.
i think you are missing my point. Nobody is doubting Mayfield's athleticism and improvisation in the pocket. He definitely has that. What he does not have right at this very moment, is the maturity or decision making to be a franchise quarterback and a leader of a professional football team. To roll the dice on him when you are coming off Eli Manning, would be a huge, huge, huge gamble that I don't think a GM who was just hired as the New York Giants GM to turn around their franchise would be willing to make.
I'm not missing your point. I said "your concerns are legit". I have read the reports. I saw the game. I saw to crotch grab. Aaron Rodgers has a little bit of that in him. He has the accuracy and ability to make all the throws. He is a winner. I can point to concerns about the other guys too. If we pass on this kid we will regret it. That famous Accorsi scouting report on Eli, I see that in Mayfield.
He and Rosen are both very accurate, so I'm hoping we get one of them. Rosen's got size over Mayfield; Mayfield has athleticism over Rosen.
I think this is a great year for QBs. I am not concerned about Rosen's lack of mobility. Like people have doubts abouts about Mayfield's maturity, I have doubts about Rosen's love of the game. I also do not care about Rosen's outspoken nature, kind of like that. I want my QB to have little fuck you in him.
How anyone can compare Mayfield to Russell Wilson knows little about football. Wilson does EVERYTHING better and faster then Mayfield while not being an asshole.
How anyone can compare Mayfield to Russell Wilson knows little about football. Wilson does EVERYTHING better and faster then Mayfield while not being an asshole.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/russell-wilson-1.html Stats give Mayfield the edge. I watched them both in College and think Mayfield has the bigger arm. Speed is similar, I think Mayfield is thicker. I'm ok with saying I know little, but Sy and others have made similar comparisons. You might consider there is a chance that you are the one that knows little? Mayfield - ( New Window )
this is where you lose credibility in your argument. "If we pass on this kid we will regret it." Based on what exactly? His success in the Big 12 against air? The fact that he's a "competitor" as if the other QBs aren't?
Rosen led one of the best comebacks in the history of college football, has the best mechanics of a QB in some time...and yet the concerns with him are still valid.
Darnold has his warts, he has been turnover prone and is a little unpolished.
And yet...what...Mayfield is a "can't miss" prospect and we will regret him if we pass on him?
this is where you lose credibility in your argument. "If we pass on this kid we will regret it." Based on what exactly? His success in the Big 12 against air? The fact that he's a "competitor" as if the other QBs aren't?
Rosen led one of the best comebacks in the history of college football, has the best mechanics of a QB in some time...and yet the concerns with him are still valid.
Darnold has his warts, he has been turnover prone and is a little unpolished.
And yet...what...Mayfield is a "can't miss" prospect and we will regret him if we pass on him?
I think he going to be the best of the bunch. No one knows for sure. Mayfield has played some big games against big competition. If he is I think he is, he will play big against the top competition real soon. If he play slightly under what he has played this year he will graduate with highest efficiency rating of all time. All of that said, no prospect is can't miss. I believe he is going to be great, better than the others. Highest efficiency of all time - ( New Window )
Comparisons with both Wilson and Brees are interesting. Â
I love the way Mayfield plays the game, but without seeing him on the field with an NFL defense, I don't think he has either quite as much speed or athleticism as either. I could be wrong, he certainly has plenty for the college game, but I'm not sure he'll be able to do the same things in the NFL he did school, and his game is all about movement. If he can't do it, and/or a team tries to turn him into a drop back pocket passer, he could could look very ordinary, or less.
I'm not usually all that big on the Combine telling the whole story, but with this particular QB I'd very much like to see what his metrics are compared with Wilson and Brees.
They will eat him alive here. He may well be the best QB coming out of college...but you also need the guy to be savvy as a NY QB. Not sure he will be that here.
For a long time to come. Watch redskins take him and then kick our ass for years. Oh yea that’s what arrogant QB’s like doing winning. Especially against those teams that passed on them. Ask the guy in New England.
Wilson has the bigger arm, much more athletic, and can run faster backwards then Mayfield forwards. Wilson a high character person,Mayfield not. Besides Brees and Wilson tell me another quarterback,6-0,or shorter, winning a Super Bowl the last 50 years? A quarterback with these measurables and character concerns is way too risky for me and I believe will be for the Giants.
BTW,Brees and Wilson are Hall Of Fame quarterbacks. Not fair to compare any college quarterback to them.
Best football player among the QB coming out. If you want a choir boy who gets sacked a lot take Rosen. If you want a football player to win football games you take Mayfield. Don't judge his character based on things he did in his teens or early 20s. He is not a drug addict. He is a FIERCE competitor at QB. As much as I like Eli I am tired of seeing the Giants lead by a placid QB. Even Tom Brady can be nasty at times and shows more fire than Eli. We need a guy who can lead like Mike Strahan used to lead the defense by both actions and verbally and who shows that fire . Time to break from the past and move in a new direction. Mayfield reminds me of the emotion and fire displayed by Phil Simms. And this only applies if the Giants want to take a QB. Personally, I think we need Nelson or Barkley a lot worse than another QB. I would go in that direction first before checking the QBs on the board. But if you feel you need a QB who can take the duress of the NFL rise above it all and elevate the players around him no one can do it better, in my opinion, than Baker Mayfield. Think of him as LT without the drug problem. He plays with that ferocity.
Mayfield will be 23 before the 2018 draft while Darnold won't turn 21 until 2 months AFTER the draft. Rosen will just have turned 21 by the draft. Two years makes a world of difference in the development of quarterbacks.
On another note, I don't put stock in the numbers of any quarterback coming from the Big-12. Receivers are open all over the field and the quarterbacks from this conference mostly all put up big numbers. Look up Graham Harrell. There are many like him. The Oklahoma-TCU game was tied up at halftime. The score? 38-38. No defense in the conference.
highlight reels online? I think about 96% of the time he is throwing to guys that have about 15 yard cushion in each direction. Not taking away from his talent but its hard to get excited about a guy that looks like he is playing flag football against middle school kids.
Hypothetically, Say Mayfield wins his next 2 games, you have to give him doing it to Ohio too. He plays those games at or near the 200 efficiency he had all year and he wins the Heisman. I am saying he is "that guy" right now. Will that sway any of you Mayfield deniers at all IF it happens?
How many guys from the defenses he's played against this year will be drafted within day 1 of the draft?
Kindly name them..
He did to Ohio State this year. They do pretty well in the draft every defensively. I am comfortable saying he played against people that play in the NFL in that very important game to both teams. Best player on the field that day too.
Beat Alabama with their great defense. One game is not a body of work. Mayfield may very well may turn out to be the best quarterback in this draft but he is not the best prospect. He will measure 6' or shorter at the combine and that along with character concerns will move him down the draft boards. Brees and Wilson are fantastic quarterbacks and Hall of Famers. Brees went in the 2nd round and Wilson in the 3rd. Reason? Size? It counts.
Who has better a win than Mayfield has vs Ohio State and Who played as good or better in as big a game? You don't think he has heard the size and weak competition claims? He did it to OSU in their house, when it counted, big time. I am surprised he only planted a flag as fiery as he is. I guess we just have to watch and see.
Beat Alabama with their great defense. One game is not a body of work. Mayfield may very well may turn out to be the best quarterback in this draft but he is not the best prospect. He will measure 6' or shorter at the combine and that along with character concerns will move him down the draft boards. Brees and Wilson are fantastic quarterbacks and Hall of Famers. Brees went in the 2nd round and Wilson in the 3rd. Reason? Size? It counts.
Johnny had talent, talent wasn't his problem. He was slight and an addict. Mayfield is 220 and 6' SOLID. You are saying his off field issues like Manzel? Here is the crux of where we disagree. I am saying no way. This guy will show up for his teammates when it counts, is a real leader of men. This is that "magic" and "it" thing I see in him. We will see.
Beat Alabama AT Alabama. Threw for 24-31,2 Td's,253 yards AND ran for 92 more. That Alabama team was better then this OSU one. Again, one game is little indication of anything. Great college quarterbacks can beat the best of teams. Sometimes,it doesn't translate to the NFL.
Beat Alabama AT Alabama. Threw for 24-31,2 Td's,253 yards AND ran for 92 more. That Alabama team was better then this OSU one. Again, one game is little indication of anything. Great college quarterbacks can beat the best of teams. Sometimes,it doesn't translate to the NFL.
Dude, we can't draft Johnny. Who of the possibly eligible QB available at the 2018 draft. Don't give me whiplash. I see what you are saying, because Johnny Manzel got to NFL as a drug addict and failed miserably, we should discount people who play really well in a really big against really good teams. Makes perfect sense, I give up.
Are because of their size and success. Manzel is a disaster. There are concerns about Mayfield's character. Don't be blind to it. It's there. There are no mock drafts out there with Mayfield in front of Rosen and Darnold. The reason? Size! There have been extremely very few quarterbacks with great success at Mayfield's size.
BTW,look up the quarterback numbers from the Big-12 the last five years. Looks like there are a lot of great quarterbacks there looking at the numbers.
Are because of their size and success. Manzel is a disaster. There are concerns about Mayfield's character. Don't be blind to it. It's there. There are no mock drafts out there with Mayfield in front of Rosen and Darnold. The reason? Size! There have been extremely very few quarterbacks with great success at Mayfield's size.
BTW,look up the quarterback numbers from the Big-12 the last five years. Looks like there are a lot of great quarterbacks there looking at the numbers.
WTF...Are you saying if Mayfield is the better pro QB and isn't the better "prospect" we should want the other guys because of size....Fuck man, I have no argument for that...except that is how teams fuck up drafts. People should not have passed on Wilson. With the chance to do it again do you believe teams would still pass on Wilson.
Mayfield might be the best quarterback in this draft BUT will not get drafted as high as Rosen or Darnold. You keep bringing up Wilson. He was a third round pick because of his size! Of course in hindsight he should have been drafted #1 overall but that is not how this works. There is a higher risk of bust with a small quarterback. There have only been a couple in the last 50 years or so that have been highly successful.
Once again,SIZE counts at the position and when you are picking in the top 5,size will matter. I find little chance that the Giants will have Mayfield ranked ahead of Rosen and Darnold. If you love Mayfield like many here,fine,he's a great college quarterback but his size(character?) will play a factor of where he is drafted.
Mayfield might be the best quarterback in this draft BUT will not get drafted as high as Rosen or Darnold. You keep bringing up Wilson. He was a third round pick because of his size! Of course in hindsight he should have been drafted #1 overall but that is not how this works. There is a higher risk of bust with a small quarterback. There have only been a couple in the last 50 years or so that have been highly successful.
Once again,SIZE counts at the position and when you are picking in the top 5,size will matter. I find little chance that the Giants will have Mayfield ranked ahead of Rosen and Darnold. If you love Mayfield like many here,fine,he's a great college quarterback but his size(character?) will play a factor of where he is drafted.
You have moved the goal post and I am willing to go there. I started this thread with the premise that mayfield is the best qb and we will regret it if we do not take him. You are saying I should STFU about this because the Giants won't take Mayfield or anyone else for that matter because he too short and Manzel failed and probably some other equally stupid shit too. ....Well EXXXCUUUUUUSSSSE MEEEEEEEEEE anyone get the reference? I can have that discussion without your position, it is irrelevant...but also wrong. If he wins out and plays big in those games, someone will take him real high possibly before Rosen or Darnold. If he is Steve Young/ Russell Wilson and Rosen/Darnold are less than that we will regret it, can't you see whether you believe the Giant's will not choose him or not is irrelevant. I want to squish your head....squishy, squishy squishy.
Well at least you have made me laugh. Time will tell who is right on this one. Me? Give me Rosen or Darnold before a short qb with character flaws.
Thanks for the discussion. At least it was mostly civil which is a big plus compared to what goes on at times on this site.
Well at least you have made me laugh. Time will tell who is right on this one. Me? Give me Rosen or Darnold before a short qb with character flaws.
Thanks for the discussion. At least it was mostly civil which is a big plus compared to what goes on at times on this site.
It was civil, you are a Giant fan. That means I love you AND hate you at the same exact time. I live out in WA now so I miss you fuckers. My best friends from childhood from jersey just got together this weekend in Seattle for the first time in more than 2 decades.(brothers) just last weekend. I am still salty from their visit and miss the back forth people just don't seem to quite get out here.
Unless he grows up, Mayfield will never win a championship in the NFL. Â
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understood, but again, nobody in their right mind who was just hired as a GM by a franchise that badly needs a turnaround in both talent and attitude, is going to take this guy. Let alone the Giants, who with a pick this high, must be signed off on by Mara. No way John Mara would ever take this kid. Especially with Beckham here and everything they've had to deal with regarding his outbursts and taunting shit.
I can see that, as long as "in your might mind" means passing on kid that will lead the league in passing and win championships. Take Rosen and draft the next Ryan, Stafford or Rivers...Very good but missing "it" I see Mayfield with Rodgers, Brees, Wilson and Young...We see it different. I would be happy with Darnold but isn't as ready as Mayfield. I see Mayfield playing like Wilson did as a rokkie with these offensive weapons....OK Flowers, let speed rusher beat you outside and I will run through that hole for 15 or 20 yards and slide/run out of bounds. We can do it until he learns.
It's interesting how you grouped those QBs so as to support your choice of Mayfield based on no facts or scouting whatsoever.
Whatsmore, we can make the correct choice- whether Darnold, Rosen or Mayfield and the likelihood of either of them leading the league in passing anytime soon is absurd.
This isn't Madden. There are real human beings on the other side of the ball who would construct a game plan to counter tendencies. You aren't running Mayfield to the sideline for 15-20 yards with any regularity. I assure you.
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In comment 13730680 ryanmkeane said:
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understood, but again, nobody in their right mind who was just hired as a GM by a franchise that badly needs a turnaround in both talent and attitude, is going to take this guy. Let alone the Giants, who with a pick this high, must be signed off on by Mara. No way John Mara would ever take this kid. Especially with Beckham here and everything they've had to deal with regarding his outbursts and taunting shit.
I can see that, as long as "in your might mind" means passing on kid that will lead the league in passing and win championships. Take Rosen and draft the next Ryan, Stafford or Rivers...Very good but missing "it" I see Mayfield with Rodgers, Brees, Wilson and Young...We see it different. I would be happy with Darnold but isn't as ready as Mayfield. I see Mayfield playing like Wilson did as a rokkie with these offensive weapons....OK Flowers, let speed rusher beat you outside and I will run through that hole for 15 or 20 yards and slide/run out of bounds. We can do it until he learns.
It's interesting how you grouped those QBs so as to support your choice of Mayfield based on no facts or scouting whatsoever.
Whatsmore, we can make the correct choice- whether Darnold, Rosen or Mayfield and the likelihood of either of them leading the league in passing anytime soon is absurd.
It is something I have watched Wilson do. I have seen him do it a few times to start a game. Mayfield has the athletic ability to do this. You don't win the game easy peazy. However, exploiting something that is a weakness for us and strength of the opposing DE is...nice. I get it, you don't like some things about Mayfield. Your concerns are legit. I just see the potential for greatness, you can't "know" I just "feel" different watching him over the other QBs potentially available. I am passionate about it, that's all, sorry if I get ahead of myself.
I had the same feeling when I saw my first Cindy Crawford layout.
He should abra cadabra himself a few more inches in height.
I think this is a great year for QBs. I am not concerned about Rosen's lack of mobility. Like people have doubts abouts about Mayfield's maturity, I have doubts about Rosen's love of the game. I also do not care about Rosen's outspoken nature, kind of like that. I want my QB to have little fuck you in him.
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In my opinion, most of all, he has that quality you can't define. Call it magic… Magic, to me, Mayfield has it.
He should abra cadabra himself a few more inches in height.
Mayfield - ( New Window )
Rosen led one of the best comebacks in the history of college football, has the best mechanics of a QB in some time...and yet the concerns with him are still valid.
Darnold has his warts, he has been turnover prone and is a little unpolished.
And yet...what...Mayfield is a "can't miss" prospect and we will regret him if we pass on him?
Rosen led one of the best comebacks in the history of college football, has the best mechanics of a QB in some time...and yet the concerns with him are still valid.
Darnold has his warts, he has been turnover prone and is a little unpolished.
And yet...what...Mayfield is a "can't miss" prospect and we will regret him if we pass on him?
Highest efficiency of all time - ( New Window )
I'm not usually all that big on the Combine telling the whole story, but with this particular QB I'd very much like to see what his metrics are compared with Wilson and Brees.
BTW,Brees and Wilson are Hall Of Fame quarterbacks. Not fair to compare any college quarterback to them.
On another note, I don't put stock in the numbers of any quarterback coming from the Big-12. Receivers are open all over the field and the quarterbacks from this conference mostly all put up big numbers. Look up Graham Harrell. There are many like him. The Oklahoma-TCU game was tied up at halftime. The score? 38-38. No defense in the conference.
Kindly name them..
Kindly name them..
BTW,look up the quarterback numbers from the Big-12 the last five years. Looks like there are a lot of great quarterbacks there looking at the numbers.
BTW,look up the quarterback numbers from the Big-12 the last five years. Looks like there are a lot of great quarterbacks there looking at the numbers.
Once again,SIZE counts at the position and when you are picking in the top 5,size will matter. I find little chance that the Giants will have Mayfield ranked ahead of Rosen and Darnold. If you love Mayfield like many here,fine,he's a great college quarterback but his size(character?) will play a factor of where he is drafted.
Once again,SIZE counts at the position and when you are picking in the top 5,size will matter. I find little chance that the Giants will have Mayfield ranked ahead of Rosen and Darnold. If you love Mayfield like many here,fine,he's a great college quarterback but his size(character?) will play a factor of where he is drafted.
Thanks for the discussion. At least it was mostly civil which is a big plus compared to what goes on at times on this site.
Thanks for the discussion. At least it was mostly civil which is a big plus compared to what goes on at times on this site.