If the Marlins cover $30 million, hows that effect the tax rest this year? Can the Yankees manipulate that to show more money saved this season and payout more each successive season, or would the savings be averaged out over the term of the deal?
Teams get to decide how they want to allocate any money included in a deal. The Yanks could apply it over the next 2 seasons- or use it in different seasons- or simply just spread it out evenly.
Keep in mind that the luxury tax computation is not obvious here. Stanton's deal has a AAV of $25M for luxury tax purposes. Castro has an AAV of $8,571,500 for the next two seasons.
Therefore, for luxury tax purposes, Stanton's deal only adds $16,428,500 for the next two seasons, then adds $25M per the rest of the way- BEFORE applying the $30M.
Let's assume that the Yanks decide to apply the $30M over the next two seasons. Since Stanton adds $16,428,500 x 2 = $32,857,000. If the Yanks applies the $30M to that total, the Yanks would essentially be adding $2.857M over the next TWO seasons to their current luxury tax computations.
Keep in mind that Stanton has an "opt out" after the 2020 season. Given what Machado and Harper will almost certainly achieve after the 2018 season (sure to break through the $300M barrier- and POSSIBLY the $400M barrier), Stanton will almost certainly opt out.
Thus, the Yanks will be likely to apply the $30M either over the next 2 years or 3 years, in order to make sure that they get the full benefit of that $$$.
Therefore, if the Yanks were to spread that $30M over the next 3 years, the luxury tax hit would be an added $27.857M added to their current totals over the next 3 seasons- with most of it on the back end (the 2020 season).
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4m4 minutes ago
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The #Yankees will only receive the $30M if Stanton does NOT opt out after the 2020 season. #Marlins
If the Marlins cover $30 million, hows that effect the tax rest this year? Can the Yankees manipulate that to show more money saved this season and payout more each successive season, or would the savings be averaged out over the term of the deal?
From Twitter- looks like $3 million in tax credit for the next 10 years.
Quote:
Jon Morosi
#Yankees will receive luxury tax credit of $3 million per year in Stanton trade; $30 million cash payment from #Marlins is averaged over the 10 years regardless of when payouts come, and even though opt-out exists. @MLB @MLBNetwork
Unless the rules changed in the new CBA, this isn't true. Go back and look how the Yanks allocated the money from Vernon Wells that they got in the Angels deal.
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The minor leaguers #Marlins are getting are Jorge Guzman and Jose Devers, who is Rafael Devers' cousin.
Not the most in depth article, but if hes been traded it certainly looks like Miami may have found an absolute stud if he can maintain quality mechanics. Kind of flies in the face of just a salary dump from Miamis perspective. I get that they cant purely trade Stanton just to get rid of his salary and not get a return, but if the Yankees really were the only team that remained as a trading partner (LA supposedly not wanting to add his salary), why even give up a prospect the caliber of Guzman? Make Miami take something lesser. Its not like they could back off the Stanton trade and not have it be a total mess after all theyd gone through already. Jorge Guzman - 2018 preview - ( New Window )
You were not gonna get him for nothing. We gave up a better prospect in Rutherford for lesser player than Stanton.
I get it, I would t undo the trade to save Guzman. Just pondering how desperate Miami really would have been to dump Stantons contract if NY was the only viable trade partner and didnt give in to Denbos wish list. Again, do the trade and dont look back.
Joel Sherman
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Castro, Devers, Guzman for Stanton and $30M pending physical. #Yankees doing thorough work up so might not be finalized until tomorrow or Monday
Really? The kids are years away if they make it. I am pretty this guys arent the top two on Gary Denbos Wishlist. The regaining MVP traded for peanuts and we complain that we had to give anything except organizational filler. Unbelievable.
Not the most in depth article, but if hes been traded it certainly looks like Miami may have found an absolute stud if he can maintain quality mechanics. Kind of flies in the face of just a salary dump from Miamis perspective. I get that they cant purely trade Stanton just to get rid of his salary and not get a return, but if the Yankees really were the only team that remained as a trading partner (LA supposedly not wanting to add his salary), why even give up a prospect the caliber of Guzman? Make Miami take something lesser. Its not like they could back off the Stanton trade and not have it be a total mess after all theyd gone through already. Jorge Guzman - 2018 preview - ( New Window )
You were not gonna get him for nothing. We gave up a better prospect in Rutherford for lesser player than Stanton.
I get it, I would t undo the trade to save Guzman. Just pondering how desperate Miami really would have been to dump Stantons contract if NY was the only viable trade partner and didnt give in to Denbos wish list. Again, do the trade and dont look back.
I think its premature to write him off as a Yankee. Clearly his a big time trade chip, but Gardner could be in his last year here if his club option is declined for 2019 (unlikely). The bigger question is are they sold on Hicks being a permanent solution?
I think its premature to write him off as a Yankee. Clearly his a big time trade chip, but Gardner could be in his last year here if his club option is declined for 2019 (unlikely). The bigger question is are they sold on Hicks being a permanent solution?
I think that they view Florial as the long term solution in CF. So Hicks has to play there for 2 years or so...not a bad thing given his great defense and decent bat.
But that's larceny to get the MVP for that package of players. Guzman has a lot of promise, but damn that's a steal. I proposed something yesterday with Andujar and Adams and would have been ok with it. That is truly a fantastic way of utilizing your leverage in negotiating
I'm very confident and comfortable with Hicks as the CF. Ellsbury will ride the pine and be insurance in case Hicks gets hurt. Not the worst insurance plan.
But Stanton has a history with injuries and could be destined for more time at DH eventually and Gardner has a year left here. So I agree, I wouldn't write off Clint as a part of this future core
Imagine if we could get rid of Ellsbury while eating most of his
contract. He's really unnecessary given that Gardy could back up CF for us. Even if we got $5-7M in salary relief it would be a worthy deal, giving us more flexibility moving forward. I wonder whether he'd approve a trade now that he has almost no worth to us, and is likely to get no playing time.
$22 million per year is what Stanton's salty will count against tax.
Ken Rosenthal
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Castro, Devers, Guzman for Stanton and $30M pending physical. #Yankees doing thorough work up so might not be finalized until tomorrow or Monday
(A) Add an MVP to an already stacked team.
(B) Ditch Castro to offset some of the cost.
(C) Replace Castro with Torres, rather than spending on a 2B.
(D) Hold onto top tier prospects, possibly deal Clint for starting pitching.
(E) Stay in position to spend big in FA next winter.
Could trade for a top 5 player in baseball without giving up any top prospects and still not like the deal.
My concern is that he is coming off a career year and won't be a top 5 or 10 or even a top 15 or 20 player going forward. Last year he hit .281, but the year before that he hit .240 and his lifetime batting average is .268.
Nobody cares about batting average anymore. Its a terrible metric to judge value
could be a useful player for some team. But don't think we'll find a team willing to take on 25% of Ellsbury's contract. So 50% is a bigger dream.
Were you addressing my post? I had a team taking Ellsbury for $5-7M a year, and the Yanks paying the rest. I'm guessing that some team might be willing to do that.
But Stanton has a history with injuries and could be destined for more time at DH eventually and Gardner has a year left here. So I agree, I wouldn't write off Clint as a part of this future core
Remember that Frazier lost a ton of development time last year with that lat injury. He can easily be sent to AAA to work on some things.
Keep in mind as well that Gardner is a FA at the end of the year. I think Stanton will be a DH most of the time, and could remain there if Frazier were to take over for Gardner in 2019.
We also need to keep in mind that Stanton has an opt-out after 2020. Keeping Frazier around allows the Yanks to keep a potentially high end bat around to ease the potential loss of Stanton down the road.
Gets warren back plus Torres quickly for a rental who we got back asap also..
Then Cashman trades Castro and lotto tickets for Stanton
Just wow.
Guy is amazing
That's why he's signing a 5 year $25 million extension.
This is what happens when you set up the revenue streams the Yankees have, with the willingness to spend, and have the farm system rework the past 3-4 years all burst at the same time. It's the perfect storm to allow them to land guys like Stanton, and others in the future. Essentially, the Yankees became as good as your small market teams ability to bring in cost controlled talent and augment with big price stars to fill out the roster. Once the pitching comes into play, this team has dynasty written all over it again. For those too young to remember the Yankee machine as it started to rev up in 1995 and 1996, you are seeing it now.
could be a useful player for some team. But don't think we'll find a team willing to take on 25% of Ellsbury's contract. So 50% is a bigger dream.
Were you addressing my post? I had a team taking Ellsbury for $5-7M a year, and the Yanks paying the rest. I'm guessing that some team might be willing to do that.
No, it was a general comment about Ellsbury. I agree with you. If a team is willing to pay even that much of Ellsbury's salary then we should do it. Just not gonna happen.
True, Rich. And keeping Frazier (especially if you find someone
But Stanton has a history with injuries and could be destined for more time at DH eventually and Gardner has a year left here. So I agree, I wouldn't write off Clint as a part of this future core
Remember that Frazier lost a ton of development time last year with that lat injury. He can easily be sent to AAA to work on some things.
Keep in mind as well that Gardner is a FA at the end of the year. I think Stanton will be a DH most of the time, and could remain there if Frazier were to take over for Gardner in 2019.
We also need to keep in mind that Stanton has an opt-out after 2020. Keeping Frazier around allows the Yanks to keep a potentially high end bat around to ease the potential loss of Stanton down the road.
Yep absolutely, could be available for the right pitcher, but we could easily send him to AAA and he's the first call up after an injury, ready to take over LF in 2019 with Stanton at DH
Could trade for a top 5 player in baseball without giving up any top prospects and still not like the deal.
My concern is that he is coming off a career year and won't be a top 5 or 10 or even a top 15 or 20 player going forward. Last year he hit .281, but the year before that he hit .240 and his lifetime batting average is .268.
Nobody cares about batting average anymore. Its a terrible metric to judge value
Also a terrible metric (by which) to value Judge.
;)
Note that Stanton has a CAREER OBP of .360 and a career SLG of .554- for a career OPS of .914.
Just to put that in perspective, in 2017- which was a season of inflated offensive production league-wide, only 20 players (including Stanton himself) had an OPS in excess of .914
Talk about a salary dump. I liked Castro at 2nd and the upside of Guzman, but the Marlins definitely didn't receive equal value for Stanton. IMO, the Yanks should now dump Jacoby and trade Gardner (which I know is not popular with a lot). I would like to see Red take over for Gardner and be the 4th man in the outfield rotation. Gardner has been great for the Yanks, but he is well into the back nine of his career and who knows how many good seasons he has left.
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
prospects going to marlins are rhp jorge guzman and infielder jose devers. considered mid-range prospects, but ex-yankee exec gary denbo obviously sees potential. @Joelsherman1 1st with prospects
Talk about a salary dump. I liked Castro at 2nd and the upside of Guzman, but the Marlins definitely didn't receive equal value for Stanton. IMO, the Yanks should now dump Jacoby and trade Gardner (which I know is not popular with a lot). I would like to see Red take over for Gardner and be the 4th man in the outfield rotation. Gardner has been great for the Yanks, but he is well into the back nine of his career and who knows how many good seasons he has left.
One issue with trading Gardner is that the team really doesn't have another guy who's ideal in the leadoff spot.
Stanton has an opt-out after 2020. Which just happens to be the same time that Ellsbury and Tanaka's deals end. Chapman would be the only long-term deal left- but he ALSO has an opt-out.
There is a possibility that the Yanks could enter the 2020 off-season without ANY long term financial commitments.
its's pretty clear that the Yankees plan on keeping Gardner. They also seem to think that Ellsbury will spend the next 3 years rotting on the bench as a pinch runner and 5th outfielder.
Stanton has an opt-out after 2020. Which just happens to be the same time that Ellsbury and Tanaka's deals end. Chapman would be the only long-term deal left- but he ALSO has an opt-out.
There is a possibility that the Yanks could enter the 2020 off-season without ANY long term financial commitments.
Just don't see Stanton opting out and leaving that much money on the table. He'll be 31 and will not get more money in the open market. He'll be leaving $218 on the table with the opt out.
its's pretty clear that the Yankees plan on keeping Gardner. They also seem to think that Ellsbury will spend the next 3 years rotting on the bench as a pinch runner and 5th outfielder.
Keep in mind that the Yanks have Gardner ($13M for luxury tax purposes), Headley ($13M for luxury tax purposes) and DRob ($11.5M for luxury tax purposes) coming off the payroll at the end of the season.
Even with adding Stanton ($25M for luxury tax purposes) and subtracting Castro ($8,571,500 for luxury tax purposes), the Yanks are still about $10M BELOW the luxury tax line.
Ellsbury is not tradeable now, but at the same time, there is no need to trade him for luxury tax purposes. He serves a purpose- he can be a late-inning baserunner, injury insurance and a guy who can give a day of rest for several guys. While he might be the highest paid insurance policy in MLB, trading him is not a NEED. But with the $21M per salary and his FULL no-trade clause, he isn't going anywhere.
Teams get to decide how they want to allocate any money included in a deal. The Yanks could apply it over the next 2 seasons- or use it in different seasons- or simply just spread it out evenly.
Keep in mind that the luxury tax computation is not obvious here. Stanton's deal has a AAV of $25M for luxury tax purposes. Castro has an AAV of $8,571,500 for the next two seasons.
Therefore, for luxury tax purposes, Stanton's deal only adds $16,428,500 for the next two seasons, then adds $25M per the rest of the way- BEFORE applying the $30M.
Let's assume that the Yanks decide to apply the $30M over the next two seasons. Since Stanton adds $16,428,500 x 2 = $32,857,000. If the Yanks applies the $30M to that total, the Yanks would essentially be adding $2.857M over the next TWO seasons to their current luxury tax computations.
Keep in mind that Stanton has an "opt out" after the 2020 season. Given what Machado and Harper will almost certainly achieve after the 2018 season (sure to break through the $300M barrier- and POSSIBLY the $400M barrier), Stanton will almost certainly opt out.
Thus, the Yanks will be likely to apply the $30M either over the next 2 years or 3 years, in order to make sure that they get the full benefit of that $$$.
Therefore, if the Yanks were to spread that $30M over the next 3 years, the luxury tax hit would be an added $27.857M added to their current totals over the next 3 seasons- with most of it on the back end (the 2020 season).
@Joelsherman1
4m4 minutes ago
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The #Yankees will only receive the $30M if Stanton does NOT opt out after the 2020 season. #Marlins
Quote:
If the Marlins cover $30 million, hows that effect the tax rest this year? Can the Yankees manipulate that to show more money saved this season and payout more each successive season, or would the savings be averaged out over the term of the deal?
From Twitter- looks like $3 million in tax credit for the next 10 years.
Quote:
Jon Morosi
#Yankees will receive luxury tax credit of $3 million per year in Stanton trade; $30 million cash payment from #Marlins is averaged over the 10 years regardless of when payouts come, and even though opt-out exists. @MLB @MLBNetwork
Unless the rules changed in the new CBA, this isn't true. Go back and look how the Yanks allocated the money from Vernon Wells that they got in the Angels deal.
@Joelsherman1
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The minor leaguers #Marlins are getting are Jorge Guzman and Jose Devers, who is Rafael Devers' cousin.
Quote:
Not the most in depth article, but if hes been traded it certainly looks like Miami may have found an absolute stud if he can maintain quality mechanics. Kind of flies in the face of just a salary dump from Miamis perspective. I get that they cant purely trade Stanton just to get rid of his salary and not get a return, but if the Yankees really were the only team that remained as a trading partner (LA supposedly not wanting to add his salary), why even give up a prospect the caliber of Guzman? Make Miami take something lesser. Its not like they could back off the Stanton trade and not have it be a total mess after all theyd gone through already. Jorge Guzman - 2018 preview - ( New Window )
You were not gonna get him for nothing. We gave up a better prospect in Rutherford for lesser player than Stanton.
More
Castro, Devers, Guzman for Stanton and $30M pending physical. #Yankees doing thorough work up so might not be finalized until tomorrow or Monday
In comment 13731600 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
In comment 13731580 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
Not the most in depth article, but if hes been traded it certainly looks like Miami may have found an absolute stud if he can maintain quality mechanics. Kind of flies in the face of just a salary dump from Miamis perspective. I get that they cant purely trade Stanton just to get rid of his salary and not get a return, but if the Yankees really were the only team that remained as a trading partner (LA supposedly not wanting to add his salary), why even give up a prospect the caliber of Guzman? Make Miami take something lesser. Its not like they could back off the Stanton trade and not have it be a total mess after all theyd gone through already. Jorge Guzman - 2018 preview - ( New Window )
You were not gonna get him for nothing. We gave up a better prospect in Rutherford for lesser player than Stanton.
I get it, I would t undo the trade to save Guzman. Just pondering how desperate Miami really would have been to dump Stantons contract if NY was the only viable trade partner and didnt give in to Denbos wish list. Again, do the trade and dont look back.
They were 29th in attendee last last year. Dropping to 30 is not much of a drop.
We need more front line pitching, and as I see it these two guys give us the best chance to land a decent starter.
Andujar to 3B
Torres to 2B
Florial to CF
Set for 10 years!
Andujar to 3B
Torres to 2B
Florial to CF
Set for 10 years!
Any idea of the prospects we gave up?
I think that they view Florial as the long term solution in CF. So Hicks has to play there for 2 years or so...not a bad thing given his great defense and decent bat.
He battled injuries which hurt(no pun intended), but if you annualize his numbers, he hit .266 with 30 HR's and a .367 OBP.
He battled injuries which hurt(no pun intended), but if you annualize his numbers, he hit .266 with 30 HR's and a .367 OBP.
He was amazing in the first half. 300 average and 400 on base for a while. He's a great bottom of the order guy. And he has decent speed.
per Heyman
Quote:
There doesn't seem to be anywhere for him to play. Is there a young, cost controlled pitcher we can target in a trade by dangling Frazier?
Does the name Gerrit Cole ring a bell?
That would make a lot of sense. The Yankees would have to add a little more though.
Ken Rosenthal
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Castro, Devers, Guzman for Stanton and $30M pending physical. #Yankees doing thorough work up so might not be finalized until tomorrow or Monday
(B) Ditch Castro to offset some of the cost.
(C) Replace Castro with Torres, rather than spending on a 2B.
(D) Hold onto top tier prospects, possibly deal Clint for starting pitching.
(E) Stay in position to spend big in FA next winter.
Cashman does it again.
They will be under the tax threshold. That is a given at this point. They will have enough money to add another pitcher.
Then Cashman trades Castro and lotto tickets for Stanton
Just wow.
Guy is amazing
Quote:
In comment 13731262 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Could trade for a top 5 player in baseball without giving up any top prospects and still not like the deal.
My concern is that he is coming off a career year and won't be a top 5 or 10 or even a top 15 or 20 player going forward. Last year he hit .281, but the year before that he hit .240 and his lifetime batting average is .268.
Nobody cares about batting average anymore. Its a terrible metric to judge value
Also a terrible metric (by which) to value Judge.
;)
Then Cashman trades Castro and lotto tickets for Stanton
Just wow.
Guy is amazing
That's why he's signing a 5 year $25 million extension.
Were you addressing my post? I had a team taking Ellsbury for $5-7M a year, and the Yanks paying the rest. I'm guessing that some team might be willing to do that.
Remember that Frazier lost a ton of development time last year with that lat injury. He can easily be sent to AAA to work on some things.
Keep in mind as well that Gardner is a FA at the end of the year. I think Stanton will be a DH most of the time, and could remain there if Frazier were to take over for Gardner in 2019.
We also need to keep in mind that Stanton has an opt-out after 2020. Keeping Frazier around allows the Yanks to keep a potentially high end bat around to ease the potential loss of Stanton down the road.
Quote:
Gets warren back plus Torres quickly for a rental who we got back asap also..
Then Cashman trades Castro and lotto tickets for Stanton
Just wow.
Guy is amazing
That's why he's signing a 5 year $25 million extension.
This is what happens when you set up the revenue streams the Yankees have, with the willingness to spend, and have the farm system rework the past 3-4 years all burst at the same time. It's the perfect storm to allow them to land guys like Stanton, and others in the future. Essentially, the Yankees became as good as your small market teams ability to bring in cost controlled talent and augment with big price stars to fill out the roster. Once the pitching comes into play, this team has dynasty written all over it again. For those too young to remember the Yankee machine as it started to rev up in 1995 and 1996, you are seeing it now.
Quote:
could be a useful player for some team. But don't think we'll find a team willing to take on 25% of Ellsbury's contract. So 50% is a bigger dream.
Were you addressing my post? I had a team taking Ellsbury for $5-7M a year, and the Yanks paying the rest. I'm guessing that some team might be willing to do that.
No, it was a general comment about Ellsbury. I agree with you. If a team is willing to pay even that much of Ellsbury's salary then we should do it. Just not gonna happen.
Quote:
But Stanton has a history with injuries and could be destined for more time at DH eventually and Gardner has a year left here. So I agree, I wouldn't write off Clint as a part of this future core
Remember that Frazier lost a ton of development time last year with that lat injury. He can easily be sent to AAA to work on some things.
Keep in mind as well that Gardner is a FA at the end of the year. I think Stanton will be a DH most of the time, and could remain there if Frazier were to take over for Gardner in 2019.
We also need to keep in mind that Stanton has an opt-out after 2020. Keeping Frazier around allows the Yanks to keep a potentially high end bat around to ease the potential loss of Stanton down the road.
Yep absolutely, could be available for the right pitcher, but we could easily send him to AAA and he's the first call up after an injury, ready to take over LF in 2019 with Stanton at DH
Id consider attaching Frazier to Ellsbury if it helps jettison that Ellsbury contract with no/minimal $ retention.
Quote:
In comment 13731335 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13731262 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Could trade for a top 5 player in baseball without giving up any top prospects and still not like the deal.
My concern is that he is coming off a career year and won't be a top 5 or 10 or even a top 15 or 20 player going forward. Last year he hit .281, but the year before that he hit .240 and his lifetime batting average is .268.
Nobody cares about batting average anymore. Its a terrible metric to judge value
Also a terrible metric (by which) to value Judge.
;)
Note that Stanton has a CAREER OBP of .360 and a career SLG of .554- for a career OPS of .914.
Just to put that in perspective, in 2017- which was a season of inflated offensive production league-wide, only 20 players (including Stanton himself) had an OPS in excess of .914
@JonHeyman
prospects going to marlins are rhp jorge guzman and infielder jose devers. considered mid-range prospects, but ex-yankee exec gary denbo obviously sees potential. @Joelsherman1 1st with prospects
One issue with trading Gardner is that the team really doesn't have another guy who's ideal in the leadoff spot.
There is a possibility that the Yanks could enter the 2020 off-season without ANY long term financial commitments.
There is a possibility that the Yanks could enter the 2020 off-season without ANY long term financial commitments.
Just don't see Stanton opting out and leaving that much money on the table. He'll be 31 and will not get more money in the open market. He'll be leaving $218 on the table with the opt out.
Keep in mind that the Yanks have Gardner ($13M for luxury tax purposes), Headley ($13M for luxury tax purposes) and DRob ($11.5M for luxury tax purposes) coming off the payroll at the end of the season.
Even with adding Stanton ($25M for luxury tax purposes) and subtracting Castro ($8,571,500 for luxury tax purposes), the Yanks are still about $10M BELOW the luxury tax line.
Ellsbury is not tradeable now, but at the same time, there is no need to trade him for luxury tax purposes. He serves a purpose- he can be a late-inning baserunner, injury insurance and a guy who can give a day of rest for several guys. While he might be the highest paid insurance policy in MLB, trading him is not a NEED. But with the $21M per salary and his FULL no-trade clause, he isn't going anywhere.