Since M is pretty much hands on, wouldn’t he know how many times Reese may have made picks that were not in line with Ross? Wouldn’t he have heard any discussions that took place during the draft where maybe Ross’s opinions were different than the picks we made? We can’t just assume Ross is the problem. Hopefully Mara knows what transpired.
Reese's biggest mistake was hiring Ross as his draft guy. His second biggest mistake was hanging on to him for a decade while the team went to shit.
You simply don't know that. It's entirely possible that's true but you and no one else who doesn't work in that building knows that for sure. Ross used Reese's scouting system that he built from the ground up, how he used it, wasn't really up to him it was up to Reese. For all we know Ross is a great talent evaluator, or he could be complete shit but the truth is we have no real idea so stop spouting things as fact that you just have no idea about. You just don't know, I'm sorry.
RE: RE: If Ross isn't fired, dumping Reese won't make any difference. Â
Reese's biggest mistake was hiring Ross as his draft guy. His second biggest mistake was hanging on to him for a decade while the team went to shit.
You simply don't know that. It's entirely possible that's true but you and no one else who doesn't work in that building knows that for sure. Ross used Reese's scouting system that he built from the ground up, how he used it, wasn't really up to him it was up to Reese. For all we know Ross is a great talent evaluator, or he could be complete shit but the truth is we have no real idea so stop spouting things as fact that you just have no idea about. You just don't know, I'm sorry.
Joey...you've had some excellent threads on the the gm search and stuff that have been awesome reads
In comment 13731447 Red Dog said:
Quote:
Reese's biggest mistake was hiring Ross as his draft guy. His second biggest mistake was hanging on to him for a decade while the team went to shit. /////////////
You simply don't know that. It's entirely possible that's true but you and no one else who doesn't work in that building knows that for sure. Ross used Reese's scouting system that he built from the ground up, how he used it, wasn't really up to him it was up to Reese. For all we know Ross is a great talent evaluator, or he could be complete shit but the truth is we have no real idea so stop spouting things as fact that you just have no idea about. You just don't know, I'm sorry.
Joey, correct, we simply do not know. But we can infer from past results: he was fired by the Bills (and possibly the Eagles, but I don't know the circumstances of his departure there), and his tenure here has been marked by years of mediocre and worse drafts.
As they say in Quantico, evidence is not proof, but there is a lot of weighty evidence suggesting Ross is not good at what he does. What would Francessa "know"? Are you saying that Reese overruled Ross as a matter of course and that Ross' rejected picks were stellar? That is a very big leap of faith in the face of the evidence.
That being said, I'll take ten times out of ten over the multitude of momos on this site who brazenly parade in and out of threads here everyday demanding that people be fired.
Joey is right. No one here knows what Mara or Ross do, what the breakdown of their responsibilities are and what share of the blame they deserve. These threads are idiotic.
Mara and Ross
jbeintherockies : 1:10 pm : link : reply
John Mara probably knows exactly what he has with Ross.
I expect John to let the new GM make the decision on Ross' fate.
I suspect J Mara is part of the problem, but with that aside, why would you take decision out of the hands of a guy in the know, and put it in the hands of a guy who hasn't worked with Ross (presuming the new GM is an outsider)?
We do know that a couple of years ago, Reese was instructed by management to get more involved in the selection process during the draft, specifically with the later round picks.
If things were coming up roses with the draft, why would this happen? Remember, Ross has the responsibility of organizing the scouting and drafting effort. Management had obviously identified some shortcomings here.
So look at the history. Ross was bad in Buffalo and Phily. The GIANTS drafts have gone way bad since he was put in charge of them. All this is indisputable. And management told his boss to pay more attention to this process that Ross is still in charge of. The evidence that Ross is a real problem grows.
So the new GM can see for himself what he has with his personnel department.
Ross, among other things, puts together the draft board. But he didn't do that in a room all by himself.
I don't expect the new GM to come in and fire everyone. That would make the transition even more tumultuous. I expect him to work with who is there and as he sees/encounters issues to make changes on a case by case basis.
The draft board and player selection (free agent signing included) probably have more to do with team building philosophy than scouting information. The Giants have their own scouting department and, in addition, also an use outside scouting agency.
In my opinion, the team building philosophy is the first issue that needs to be addressed. Who are the New York Giants? Are they are run-PA pass team, WCO, what are they? Same for the defense. Are they a man coverage 43 D or a zone 43 D? What do the Giants want their identity to be?
For example, look at the Raiders. Del Rio has made that offense a heavy set run first team. That's what he wants their identity to be.
drafts were shit when he was there and then when he came here our drafts were shit. Guy needs to go
Every time I read your post I read it in tommy wiseau's voice. Lots of fun. Hope you heard wiseau and Franco on the stern show last week. It might have been the most amazing stern interview ever which is saying something.
I had read in several places that the old MO was that Reese would start out more involved in the selection in round one, then turn it over more to the coaches as the rounds progressed. Mid-lower rounds were abysmal, so they changed up the dynamics of the selection process, cutting out the coaches more and giving Reese more of a say.
wow,a simple question and such a vicious response,hate to see what you post on political sites with people you disagree with.
Gil Brandt and Francesca are two that come to me
Quote:
You have no idea.
wow,a simple question and such a vicious response,hate to see what you post on political sites with people you disagree with.
Quote:
Reese's biggest mistake was hiring Ross as his draft guy. His second biggest mistake was hanging on to him for a decade while the team went to shit.
You simply don't know that. It's entirely possible that's true but you and no one else who doesn't work in that building knows that for sure. Ross used Reese's scouting system that he built from the ground up, how he used it, wasn't really up to him it was up to Reese. For all we know Ross is a great talent evaluator, or he could be complete shit but the truth is we have no real idea so stop spouting things as fact that you just have no idea about. You just don't know, I'm sorry.
Joey...you've had some excellent threads on the the gm search and stuff that have been awesome reads
Quote:
In comment 13731308 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
You have no idea.
wow,a simple question and such a vicious response,hate to see what you post on political sites with people you disagree with.
I don't post on political sites, I just wait for dopes like you to say dumb unfounded things then I pounce.
it was a question lady,put your teeth back in and try and keep up.
Quote:
Reese's biggest mistake was hiring Ross as his draft guy. His second biggest mistake was hanging on to him for a decade while the team went to shit. /////////////
You simply don't know that. It's entirely possible that's true but you and no one else who doesn't work in that building knows that for sure. Ross used Reese's scouting system that he built from the ground up, how he used it, wasn't really up to him it was up to Reese. For all we know Ross is a great talent evaluator, or he could be complete shit but the truth is we have no real idea so stop spouting things as fact that you just have no idea about. You just don't know, I'm sorry.
As they say in Quantico, evidence is not proof, but there is a lot of weighty evidence suggesting Ross is not good at what he does. What would Francessa "know"? Are you saying that Reese overruled Ross as a matter of course and that Ross' rejected picks were stellar? That is a very big leap of faith in the face of the evidence.
I expect John to let the new GM make the decision on Ross' fate.
I expect John to let the new GM make the decision on Ross' fate.
Simple solution right there.
Joey in VA : 11:02 am : link : reply
In comment 13731350 sundayatone said:
Quote:
In comment 13731308 Joey in VA said:
I don't post on political sites, I just wait for dopes like you to say dumb unfounded things then I pounce.
. . . which is mystifying. So you think of yourself as BBI's vigilante? Abusive behavior like yours degrades this site.
Joey is right. No one here knows what Mara or Ross do, what the breakdown of their responsibilities are and what share of the blame they deserve. These threads are idiotic.
jbeintherockies : 1:10 pm : link : reply
John Mara probably knows exactly what he has with Ross.
I expect John to let the new GM make the decision on Ross' fate.
I suspect J Mara is part of the problem, but with that aside, why would you take decision out of the hands of a guy in the know, and put it in the hands of a guy who hasn't worked with Ross (presuming the new GM is an outsider)?
If things were coming up roses with the draft, why would this happen? Remember, Ross has the responsibility of organizing the scouting and drafting effort. Management had obviously identified some shortcomings here.
So look at the history. Ross was bad in Buffalo and Phily. The GIANTS drafts have gone way bad since he was put in charge of them. All this is indisputable. And management told his boss to pay more attention to this process that Ross is still in charge of. The evidence that Ross is a real problem grows.
Ross, among other things, puts together the draft board. But he didn't do that in a room all by himself.
I don't expect the new GM to come in and fire everyone. That would make the transition even more tumultuous. I expect him to work with who is there and as he sees/encounters issues to make changes on a case by case basis.
The draft board and player selection (free agent signing included) probably have more to do with team building philosophy than scouting information. The Giants have their own scouting department and, in addition, also an use outside scouting agency.
In my opinion, the team building philosophy is the first issue that needs to be addressed. Who are the New York Giants? Are they are run-PA pass team, WCO, what are they? Same for the defense. Are they a man coverage 43 D or a zone 43 D? What do the Giants want their identity to be?
For example, look at the Raiders. Del Rio has made that offense a heavy set run first team. That's what he wants their identity to be.
Every time I read your post I read it in tommy wiseau's voice. Lots of fun. Hope you heard wiseau and Franco on the stern show last week. It might have been the most amazing stern interview ever which is saying something.
Gil Brandt and Francesca are two that come to me
Assuming premise of 'evaluator' is true: with very few exceptions, then the 2009-2016 draft failings were almost totally on Reese.