He kept this line in tact, even though it sucked with Hart in the lineup....he only replaced Hart due to injuries.....he did not experiment in preseason with different combinations....To see the Hart/Jerry combo not handle simple stunts in preseason, and then the same thing happened when the season started, speaks volumes.....and he had two years to teach these guys a solid screen play....epic failure....
We only started to run the ball better, once other guys were inserted into the lineup......Has he improved the play of the line since he took over? No!
But I agree....he is probably gone with a new regime coming in.
He was OL coach for two dominant offensive lines in the past. With that said I don't know if he is part of the problem but I think he should be replaced. After his second season in the league, 1st as the starting center, Richburg looked like he was on his way to becoming one of the top centers in football. Under Solari he has regressed. I am wondering if the offensive scheme or Solari are poor fits for Richburg. It is possible that Richburg just didn't develop as hoped but I have a hard time believing that his second season was a fluke.
RE: I would not get attached to anyone coach on this staff Â
make up for not having talent. Flaherty, Solari, and Pope were three of the best position coaches in football when they had decent players to work with.
make up for not having talent. Flaherty, Solari, and Pope were three of the best position coaches in football when they had decent players to work with.
Agreed. Good players make coaches look good. Bad players make coaches look bad.
It is clear at this point that Flowers was a three (3) year project drafted in the top 10.
make up for not having talent. Flaherty, Solari, and Pope were three of the best position coaches in football when they had decent players to work with.
In 2002 McNally was given a line of Former RT Petitgout (1st round) having to move to LT, former UDFA's Seubert, Bober, and Whittle at LG, C, RG and Mike Rosenthal in at RT (5th round) That line played very well for much of the season. I remember going into that year thinking Collins was going to get killed. Now Petitgout turned into a solid LT and Seubert became an outstanding guard but the rest of the line were truly backups who played well together. I am not blaming everything on Solari but he hasn't gotten much out of his players despite high picks being spent on 3 of them.
to pick his own assistants. His chances of success will improve if he chooses coaches that will work within his system. The Giants basically forced Spags and Quinn on McAdoo.
In comment 13731556 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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make up for not having talent. Flaherty, Solari, and Pope were three of the best position coaches in football when they had decent players to work with.
In 2002 McNally was given a line of Former RT Petitgout (1st round) having to move to LT, former UDFA's Seubert, Bober, and Whittle at LG, C, RG and Mike Rosenthal in at RT (5th round) That line played very well for much of the season. I remember going into that year thinking Collins was going to get killed. Now Petitgout turned into a solid LT and Seubert became an outstanding guard but the rest of the line were truly backups who played well together. I am not blaming everything on Solari but he hasn't gotten much out of his players despite high picks being spent on 3 of them.
Proves nothing. They may have been better players than what they have now, regardless of draft position
In comment 13731556 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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make up for not having talent. Flaherty, Solari, and Pope were three of the best position coaches in football when they had decent players to work with.
In 2002 McNally was given a line of Former RT Petitgout (1st round) having to move to LT, former UDFA's Seubert, Bober, and Whittle at LG, C, RG and Mike Rosenthal in at RT (5th round) That line played very well for much of the season. I remember going into that year thinking Collins was going to get killed. Now Petitgout turned into a solid LT and Seubert became an outstanding guard but the rest of the line were truly backups who played well together. I am not blaming everything on Solari but he hasn't gotten much out of his players despite high picks being spent on 3 of them.
Proves nothing. They may have been better players than what they have now, regardless of draft position
look at NE then. They are constantly rotating in mid to late round picks and UDFA's on the offensive line and the line continues to play well. I am not saying Solari is the reason for the play of the offensive line I am just stating that a great offensive line coach can get the best out of his players.
But, especially Solari. He has overseen their worst unit with nobody seeming particularly well coached as an individual or unit and nobody making any significant improvement
In comment 13731678 jbeintherockies said:
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In comment 13731636 Jay on the Island said:
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In comment 13731556 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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make up for not having talent. Flaherty, Solari, and Pope were three of the best position coaches in football when they had decent players to work with.
In 2002 McNally was given a line of Former RT Petitgout (1st round) having to move to LT, former UDFA's Seubert, Bober, and Whittle at LG, C, RG and Mike Rosenthal in at RT (5th round) That line played very well for much of the season. I remember going into that year thinking Collins was going to get killed. Now Petitgout turned into a solid LT and Seubert became an outstanding guard but the rest of the line were truly backups who played well together. I am not blaming everything on Solari but he hasn't gotten much out of his players despite high picks being spent on 3 of them.
Proves nothing. They may have been better players than what they have now, regardless of draft position
look at NE then. They are constantly rotating in mid to late round picks and UDFA's on the offensive line and the line continues to play well. I am not saying Solari is the reason for the play of the offensive line I am just stating that a great offensive line coach can get the best out of his players.
The only way you know that for sure is if the exact same players are coached by two different coaches, all else being the same. Where they are drafted does not mean they are the exact same players.
The only way you know that for sure is if the exact same players are coached by two different coaches, all else being the same. Where they are drafted does not mean they are the exact same players.
I never said it did. In 2003 Whittle, Bober, and Rosenthal were on all different teams under different OL coaches and were either backups or benched before the season was over.
There is no way we should even risk bringing Solari back Â
No thanks, IMO. Zone can work but I want a power scheme in the northeast. Just my offensive preference
Agreed let's create a physical, punishing offensive line. Flowers and Fluker on the right side is a decent start. G/C Billy Price is a perfect fit as well and they should trade up into the end of round 1 to get him.
In comment 13731556 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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make up for not having talent. Flaherty, Solari, and Pope were three of the best position coaches in football when they had decent players to work with.
In 2002 McNally was given a line of Former RT Petitgout (1st round) having to move to LT, former UDFA's Seubert, Bober, and Whittle at LG, C, RG and Mike Rosenthal in at RT (5th round) That line played very well for much of the season. I remember going into that year thinking Collins was going to get killed. Now Petitgout turned into a solid LT and Seubert became an outstanding guard but the rest of the line were truly backups who played well together. I am not blaming everything on Solari but he hasn't gotten much out of his players despite high picks being spent on 3 of them.
Proves nothing. They may have been better players than what they have now, regardless of draft position
look at NE then. They are constantly rotating in mid to late round picks and UDFA's on the offensive line and the line continues to play well. I am not saying Solari is the reason for the play of the offensive line I am just stating that a great offensive line coach can get the best out of his players.
Draft position may not be the best indicator of how good those players are, but Dante Scarnecchia is an outstanding coach. There's a reason the Pats made so much effort to get him back from retirement. The yeah he was gone showed a stunning downturn in the quality of play from the OL.
Flowers is not a zone type Player. Flip him and Wheeler Â
Draft Nelson. Resign Fluker. Jerry can back up both G Spots. My bet ismost of the Ol issues will be lessened w an OC who isn't a stubborn unimaginative moron
when they hired McAdoo he wasn't able to bring in all of his own guys pretty much. He inherited a bunch of position coaches and then some.
I'm concerned Mara and co. will do the same thing with a new coach. They better not retain any coaches until they have the HC in place and run it by him first. We need everyone to be on the same page.
But it also depends on who you hire as a coach. A veteran coach will fill his staff with his own preferences. A first timer won't necessarily have the network to fill a staff.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The lesson should be that Â
The only way you know that for sure is if the exact same players are coached by two different coaches, all else being the same. Where they are drafted does not mean they are the exact same players.
I never said it did. In 2003 Whittle, Bober, and Rosenthal were on all different teams under different OL coaches and were either backups or benched before the season was over.
Rosenthal was a starter for the Vikings after he left the Giants via free agency. Whittle continued to start after he left the Giants as a free agent. Bober went to the Chiefs and was a backup, but started a few games, even at tackle.
It will be interesting to see how many of the current Giants offensive linemen stick on another NFL roster, let alone start.
The point I'm trying to make is Solari doesn't have much to work with. I think "Mouse" did and Scarnechi does.
Hopefully has the gonads and power to pick his own coordinators.
No 'inherited' coach's.
Starting with Quinn....photos or not;-).
tell me why you think Quinn is a bad ST coach? Would love to hear this. Lots of people complain about quin. I want to know your complaint
Except for Tyree and DeOssie,and at that both of whom were already good ST players at 'Cuse and Brown, respectively,we really havent had a notable ST player his tenure. When we are on punt coverage our gunners usually dont get there quick enough, when they do they often wiff. The other guys cant seem to shed block and get there quickly to help with the tackle. When on punt return, the blockers are a collective sieve and dont give the returner much of a seam to run thru(like none). And personally, when I see an opponent muff a punt I know it'll be a big return, and I'm not usually let down on that(DeShaun Jackson 2010 ring a bell?)We muff a punt there are 3 opponents and not a Giant in eyesight.
He kept this line in tact, even though it sucked with Hart in the lineup....he only replaced Hart due to injuries.....he did not experiment in preseason with different combinations....To see the Hart/Jerry combo not handle simple stunts in preseason, and then the same thing happened when the season started, speaks volumes.....and he had two years to teach these guys a solid screen play....epic failure....
We only started to run the ball better, once other guys were inserted into the lineup......Has he improved the play of the line since he took over? No!
But I agree....he is probably gone with a new regime coming in.
No 'inherited' coach's.
Starting with Quinn....photos or not;-).
Except, of course, for Dan Quinn.
I'm starting to think he was fired years ago, but just keeps showing up and no one thinks anything of it........
All of this could change with a change in offensive philosophy.
Interesting post. So the entire coaching staff needs to go (again), but not Reese.
Agreed. Good players make coaches look good. Bad players make coaches look bad.
It is clear at this point that Flowers was a three (3) year project drafted in the top 10.
In 2002 McNally was given a line of Former RT Petitgout (1st round) having to move to LT, former UDFA's Seubert, Bober, and Whittle at LG, C, RG and Mike Rosenthal in at RT (5th round) That line played very well for much of the season. I remember going into that year thinking Collins was going to get killed. Now Petitgout turned into a solid LT and Seubert became an outstanding guard but the rest of the line were truly backups who played well together. I am not blaming everything on Solari but he hasn't gotten much out of his players despite high picks being spent on 3 of them.
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make up for not having talent. Flaherty, Solari, and Pope were three of the best position coaches in football when they had decent players to work with.
In 2002 McNally was given a line of Former RT Petitgout (1st round) having to move to LT, former UDFA's Seubert, Bober, and Whittle at LG, C, RG and Mike Rosenthal in at RT (5th round) That line played very well for much of the season. I remember going into that year thinking Collins was going to get killed. Now Petitgout turned into a solid LT and Seubert became an outstanding guard but the rest of the line were truly backups who played well together. I am not blaming everything on Solari but he hasn't gotten much out of his players despite high picks being spent on 3 of them.
Proves nothing. They may have been better players than what they have now, regardless of draft position
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In comment 13731556 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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make up for not having talent. Flaherty, Solari, and Pope were three of the best position coaches in football when they had decent players to work with.
In 2002 McNally was given a line of Former RT Petitgout (1st round) having to move to LT, former UDFA's Seubert, Bober, and Whittle at LG, C, RG and Mike Rosenthal in at RT (5th round) That line played very well for much of the season. I remember going into that year thinking Collins was going to get killed. Now Petitgout turned into a solid LT and Seubert became an outstanding guard but the rest of the line were truly backups who played well together. I am not blaming everything on Solari but he hasn't gotten much out of his players despite high picks being spent on 3 of them.
Proves nothing. They may have been better players than what they have now, regardless of draft position
look at NE then. They are constantly rotating in mid to late round picks and UDFA's on the offensive line and the line continues to play well. I am not saying Solari is the reason for the play of the offensive line I am just stating that a great offensive line coach can get the best out of his players.
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In comment 13731636 Jay on the Island said:
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In comment 13731556 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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make up for not having talent. Flaherty, Solari, and Pope were three of the best position coaches in football when they had decent players to work with.
In 2002 McNally was given a line of Former RT Petitgout (1st round) having to move to LT, former UDFA's Seubert, Bober, and Whittle at LG, C, RG and Mike Rosenthal in at RT (5th round) That line played very well for much of the season. I remember going into that year thinking Collins was going to get killed. Now Petitgout turned into a solid LT and Seubert became an outstanding guard but the rest of the line were truly backups who played well together. I am not blaming everything on Solari but he hasn't gotten much out of his players despite high picks being spent on 3 of them.
Proves nothing. They may have been better players than what they have now, regardless of draft position
look at NE then. They are constantly rotating in mid to late round picks and UDFA's on the offensive line and the line continues to play well. I am not saying Solari is the reason for the play of the offensive line I am just stating that a great offensive line coach can get the best out of his players.
The only way you know that for sure is if the exact same players are coached by two different coaches, all else being the same. Where they are drafted does not mean they are the exact same players.
The only way you know that for sure is if the exact same players are coached by two different coaches, all else being the same. Where they are drafted does not mean they are the exact same players.
I never said it did. In 2003 Whittle, Bober, and Rosenthal were on all different teams under different OL coaches and were either backups or benched before the season was over.
And it wasn't like there was some type of unknown that they needed help or development since last year...
Agreed let's create a physical, punishing offensive line. Flowers and Fluker on the right side is a decent start. G/C Billy Price is a perfect fit as well and they should trade up into the end of round 1 to get him.
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In comment 13731636 Jay on the Island said:
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In comment 13731556 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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make up for not having talent. Flaherty, Solari, and Pope were three of the best position coaches in football when they had decent players to work with.
In 2002 McNally was given a line of Former RT Petitgout (1st round) having to move to LT, former UDFA's Seubert, Bober, and Whittle at LG, C, RG and Mike Rosenthal in at RT (5th round) That line played very well for much of the season. I remember going into that year thinking Collins was going to get killed. Now Petitgout turned into a solid LT and Seubert became an outstanding guard but the rest of the line were truly backups who played well together. I am not blaming everything on Solari but he hasn't gotten much out of his players despite high picks being spent on 3 of them.
Proves nothing. They may have been better players than what they have now, regardless of draft position
look at NE then. They are constantly rotating in mid to late round picks and UDFA's on the offensive line and the line continues to play well. I am not saying Solari is the reason for the play of the offensive line I am just stating that a great offensive line coach can get the best out of his players.
Draft position may not be the best indicator of how good those players are, but Dante Scarnecchia is an outstanding coach. There's a reason the Pats made so much effort to get him back from retirement. The yeah he was gone showed a stunning downturn in the quality of play from the OL.
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Interesting post. So the entire coaching staff needs to go (again), but not Reese.
Umm Reese is already gone
I'm concerned Mara and co. will do the same thing with a new coach. They better not retain any coaches until they have the HC in place and run it by him first. We need everyone to be on the same page.
He didn’t have any of “his own guys”. He’d never been a HC before. Who would his own guys have been? The entire GB coaching staff?
just sayin'...
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In comment 13731554 Rflairr said:
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Interesting post. So the entire coaching staff needs to go (again), but not Reese.
Umm Reese is already gone
Rflairr didn't want Reese fired, thought it was a bad move. But, in his post, feels entire coaching staff needs to go.
I don’t mean to be reactionary, but I don’t really want any of this coaching staff to stick around. What would be the point?
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The only way you know that for sure is if the exact same players are coached by two different coaches, all else being the same. Where they are drafted does not mean they are the exact same players.
I never said it did. In 2003 Whittle, Bober, and Rosenthal were on all different teams under different OL coaches and were either backups or benched before the season was over.
Rosenthal was a starter for the Vikings after he left the Giants via free agency. Whittle continued to start after he left the Giants as a free agent. Bober went to the Chiefs and was a backup, but started a few games, even at tackle.
It will be interesting to see how many of the current Giants offensive linemen stick on another NFL roster, let alone start.
The point I'm trying to make is Solari doesn't have much to work with. I think "Mouse" did and Scarnechi does.
No 'inherited' coach's.
Starting with Quinn....photos or not;-).
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Hopefully has the gonads and power to pick his own coordinators.
No 'inherited' coach's.
Starting with Quinn....photos or not;-).
tell me why you think Quinn is a bad ST coach? Would love to hear this. Lots of people complain about quin. I want to know your complaint
Except for Tyree and DeOssie,and at that both of whom were already good ST players at 'Cuse and Brown, respectively,we really havent had a notable ST player his tenure. When we are on punt coverage our gunners usually dont get there quick enough, when they do they often wiff. The other guys cant seem to shed block and get there quickly to help with the tackle. When on punt return, the blockers are a collective sieve and dont give the returner much of a seam to run thru(like none). And personally, when I see an opponent muff a punt I know it'll be a big return, and I'm not usually let down on that(DeShaun Jackson 2010 ring a bell?)We muff a punt there are 3 opponents and not a Giant in eyesight.