Ready doesn’t mean play well or win games. Ready means the guy can take snaps from under center, make some reads, and process what is happening. Maybe that doesn’t mean anything to some people but it does to the coaching staff and teammates or are beating themselves up on every play.
If he can’t do any of the above he has no business seeing the field.
Ready doesn’t mean play well or win games. Ready means the guy can take snaps from under center, make some reads, and process what is happening. Maybe that doesn’t mean anything to some people but it does to the coaching staff and teammates or are beating themselves up on every play.
If he can’t do any of the above he has no business seeing the field.
Exactly, this is pretty simple stuff.
No, I just want to see Webb throw a 4-yard pass when we need 6 yards Â
Ready doesn’t mean play well or win games. Ready means the guy can take snaps from under center, make some reads, and process what is happening. Maybe that doesn’t mean anything to some people but it does to the coaching staff and teammates or are beating themselves up on every play.
If he can’t do any of the above he has no business seeing the field.
Exactly, this is pretty simple stuff.
Agree, its pretty simple stuff. Lets see if he can do it...
Ready doesn’t mean play well or win games. Ready means the guy can take snaps from under center, make some reads, and process what is happening. Maybe that doesn’t mean anything to some people but it does to the coaching staff and teammates or are beating themselves up on every play.
If he can’t do any of the above he has no business seeing the field.
Exactly, this is pretty simple stuff.
Agree, its pretty simple stuff. Lets see if he can do it...
if he can’t do it on the scout team (I don’t know if he can or can’t) why would he then be able to do it in a real game against the best competition?
I really don’t get this whole debate. We all want to see if Webb has something but there is so much going against him right now and that’s before we get into how “ready”’he is. This I’m right and your wrong bullshit is just that.
if anyone is it’s you. I provided reasons why he may not be playing. Your retort is that of a 14 year old freshman.
I don’t know what he can do, neither do you. But I think the Giants might and right now isn’t his time. Maybe it will be in a couple of weeks. Until then enjoy acting like you are the smartest man in the room.
And I provided reasons why he should be getting snaps Â
you don't have to be insulting because you disagree. And citing the Giants on your side isn't exactly helping me sway to your view in the debate. He seems to be heading to the cause of playing which is all i wanted only sooner.
Everything else thru the end of this season is a waste of time...
Hell, I hope he throws multiple TD's and looks great. Who doesn't?
Here's the thing, I still want to draft a QB round 1 no matter what happens with Webb. So it doesn't really matter to me when I see him. I just hope that when I do, it's with the full confidence from the coaching staff that he's the best option, whether it's Spags and staff now, or the next coach.
I don't monitor your positions. Just what you posted here... Â
Here's the thing, I still want to draft a QB round 1 no matter what happens with Webb. So it doesn't really matter to me when I see him. I just hope that when I do, it's with the full confidence from the coaching staff that he's the best option, whether it's Spags and staff now, or the next coach.
So do I, except for your last sentence. Clearly everybody would have more confidence in Eli playing out the season but that has nothing to do with why you play Webb.
RE: If the Giants end up with a top 4 pick or so Â
We've got a special situation here. Eli is the king of the QB room and has earned that right. He gets almost all of the very limited snaps each week. The backup gets the rest, of which there are very few.
Now Eli has really struggled in the past couple of years to make this offense productive. That's not to say the blame is on him, it's just not working right now and he's been at the wheel. When the season effectively ended with our elimination the leadership of this club decided to see what the rest of the QB's could do.
This was such an outrage to fans everywhere and people in the media that they had to back off, reverse course entirely and now cannot see what another QB can do.
It seems to me that the position that Webb came in third in the QB competition is absurd, if there's been no competition. Even if there was a legit competition, it would have been very early in camp. Is that how competition works?
Eli is the one guy who probably needs less practice than anyone else on this team, yet almost all the practice time (as well as all the game time snaps) goes to him.
There has been and is no true competition for the QB or backup spot. Webb hasn't "lost" anything.
RE: RE: I hope the guy comes in and lights it up.... Â
Here's the thing, I still want to draft a QB round 1 no matter what happens with Webb. So it doesn't really matter to me when I see him. I just hope that when I do, it's with the full confidence from the coaching staff that he's the best option, whether it's Spags and staff now, or the next coach.
So do I, except for your last sentence. Clearly everybody would have more confidence in Eli playing out the season but that has nothing to do with why you play Webb.
I was using "best option" as an all encompassing term. It's not just best option to win games. It's best option for evaluating Webb, evaluating his teammates, etc...
Understood. I was just saying you can't wait around for some ideal Â
We've got a special situation here. Eli is the king of the QB room and has earned that right. He gets almost all of the very limited snaps each week. The backup gets the rest, of which there are very few.
Now Eli has really struggled in the past couple of years to make this offense productive. That's not to say the blame is on him, it's just not working right now and he's been at the wheel. When the season effectively ended with our elimination the leadership of this club decided to see what the rest of the QB's could do.
This was such an outrage to fans everywhere and people in the media that they had to back off, reverse course entirely and now cannot see what another QB can do.
It seems to me that the position that Webb came in third in the QB competition is absurd, if there's been no competition. Even if there was a legit competition, it would have been very early in camp. Is that how competition works?
Eli is the one guy who probably needs less practice than anyone else on this team, yet almost all the practice time (as well as all the game time snaps) goes to him.
There has been and is no true competition for the QB or backup spot. Webb hasn't "lost" anything.
I don't think that's the angle most are taking. Being ready doesn't mean beating out Geno.
Being ready is means the things UConn pointed out. Can he take the snap from under center? Can he read a defense?
These are things that were specifically pointed out the day he was drafted by the guy that drafted him, and that the hope was that he could sit for a couple of years and learn the pro game, and not get thrown out there prematurely.
That is a direct quote from the guy that evaluated and drafted him.
some good points. QB competition on the Giants has been a folly for the past 14 years because of Eli's presence.
And that has trickled down to even the backups who have typically found jobs because of lack of any solid decision making at that level as well. No one ever really thought ELi wouldn't play next game, next month, next season, etc. and true development was hindered...
“We think [Webb] has a high ceiling and can come in and learn the pro game,” Giants general manager Jerry Reese told the New York Post, adding, “Hopefully, he can sit behind Eli for two or three years.”
Quote:
“We’re hoping he doesn’t have to be the guy that’s thrown into the fire,” Ross said. “We hope he can work on his skill.”
With all due respect, those two quotes were a GM saying Â
How is this a con? What difference does it make who fired him? How does that fact conflict with the other facts - he's an asset on a roster who may have value if played?
Quote:
-Repeatedly said by fired coach and GM that he isn't ready
-He was drafted as a project and not expected to play for a couple of years
both the fired coach and fired GM expected to play him once the season reached this point, so who cares what they said when they thought they'd be competing for a title? That's not happening.
Furthermore, what difference does it make what the former, failed coach and GM said?
Quote:
-A 3rd round pick by a GM who has a history of failed 3rd round picks
That may be a fact, but it isn't a con for playing him. It's just an excuse to NOT play him.
Quote:
-Comparable to Ryan Nassib who never amounted to anything
Seriously? You might as well post that you don't like the guy. Who has compared him? None of the draft gurus I've read did. I know they all like his arm, and there were several who didn't like Nassib's delivery from the beginning.
This isn't a "con" for why he shouldn't be played, like much of your list it's a reason you don't like him - not something that would either help or hurt the franchise.
Quote:
-A poor roster around him on offense which makes it difficult to evaluate him
This is true, but it's true for anyone, including Eli. The question is whether ANY tape is better than NO tape.
Quote:
-A poor offensive line, now with injury substitutions and reshuffling as well, which could get him killed, or at the very least stunt his growth if there is any to be had
If he's a Nassib why are you worried about him getting killed? Shouldn't you be more worried about Eli getting killed? He's younger and healthier than Eli, and far less valuable, so if we were going to offer up a sacrificial lamb why shouldn't it be the rook we couldn't care less about?
Quote:
-Not going to influence what the Giants do with the first round pick
Complete speculation on your part. Not a fact at all, unless you give him zero time to prepare and then zero time on the field.
Quote:
-Even after being told by ownership to play him, he STILL isn't ready in practice
I think that's what the thread is about. It's not that he isn't ready, it's that he isn't getting any practice snaps (except for the scout team stuff, running someone else's offense.)
Quote:
-Never took a snap from under center until 3 months ago.
Not sure how that is a con. By the way, he looked fine taking snaps from under center when he finally did. Why is this such a big deal?
Quote:
-Rudderless offensive scheme, which will likely be completely different next year, so you're wasting your time having him go out and evaluate him in it....
It's not just about evaluating him, it's also about giving him a chance to grow.
Quote:
Am I missing anything?
Yeah, throw him out there!
Your list in its entirety is not made up of potential "harms" to the franchise because there isn't or wouldn't be any harm to the franchise by letting Davis Webb practice with the first team and prepare for some playing time.
What has happened this year that indicates he's ready? Â
that the Giants felt they found first round QB value in the 3rd/4th round.
So absolutely no comparison other than the draft grade the Giants gave him.
Might as well compare him to Landon Collins, who the Giants felt had a first round grade also, or any of dozens of other players they found later on that they had a first round grade on.
that way when we draft a qb #1 and Webb is cut after camp next year never to be seen again, we will be spared the endless "Webb would've been a star if . . ." threads.
This is Jerrel Jernigan all over again in a lot of ways Â
that way when we draft a qb #1 and Webb is cut after camp next year never to be seen again, we will be spared the endless "Webb would've been a star if . . ." threads.
Even if they draft a QB, why would Webb be cut, based on
what exactly? The coaching staff not allowing him game time reps.? Geno will be gone next season.
That this kid is not anywhere close to being ready. There is no point to sticking him out there to see "what he can do" because he can't do shit and the staff knows this.
For fans, not so much apparently.
With that view at the helm, enjoy the next 2 years of Eli running the show...
Quote:
so, enjoy another week of Davis Webb not being ready.
With that view at the helm, enjoy the next 2 years of Eli running the show...
I will, thanks.
If he can’t do any of the above he has no business seeing the field.
And yet you wanted these guys to play Davis Webb and evaluate him. Good call.
If he can’t do any of the above he has no business seeing the field.
Exactly, this is pretty simple stuff.
Quote:
Ready doesn’t mean play well or win games. Ready means the guy can take snaps from under center, make some reads, and process what is happening. Maybe that doesn’t mean anything to some people but it does to the coaching staff and teammates or are beating themselves up on every play.
If he can’t do any of the above he has no business seeing the field.
Exactly, this is pretty simple stuff.
Agree, its pretty simple stuff. Lets see if he can do it...
Quote:
In comment 13732276 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
Ready doesn’t mean play well or win games. Ready means the guy can take snaps from under center, make some reads, and process what is happening. Maybe that doesn’t mean anything to some people but it does to the coaching staff and teammates or are beating themselves up on every play.
If he can’t do any of the above he has no business seeing the field.
Exactly, this is pretty simple stuff.
Agree, its pretty simple stuff. Lets see if he can do it...
What do you think they're doing in practice?
I really don’t get this whole debate. We all want to see if Webb has something but there is so much going against him right now and that’s before we get into how “ready”’he is. This I’m right and your wrong bullshit is just that.
But stop acting like Webb is 14 year old freshman in high school. He's a football player...
I don’t know what he can do, neither do you. But I think the Giants might and right now isn’t his time. Maybe it will be in a couple of weeks. Until then enjoy acting like you are the smartest man in the room.
Everything else thru the end of this season is a waste of time...
You also were the one throwing insults, just in case you forgot that. Just reread your own posts if you don’t believe me.
Here's the thing, I still want to draft a QB round 1 no matter what happens with Webb. So it doesn't really matter to me when I see him. I just hope that when I do, it's with the full confidence from the coaching staff that he's the best option, whether it's Spags and staff now, or the next coach.
There is nothing Webb could show in these last few games that would change this.
Here's the thing, I still want to draft a QB round 1 no matter what happens with Webb. So it doesn't really matter to me when I see him. I just hope that when I do, it's with the full confidence from the coaching staff that he's the best option, whether it's Spags and staff now, or the next coach.
So do I, except for your last sentence. Clearly everybody would have more confidence in Eli playing out the season but that has nothing to do with why you play Webb.
There is nothing Webb could show in these last few games that would change this.
Agree. You play Webb for the simple reason that we are better off having Webb begin his development as a QB in all scenarios going forward.
There is nothing Webb could show in these last few games that would change this.
If they end up top 2, they're taking a QB anything lower than that and Rosen and Darnold might be gone.
Which is why Webb should have been the #2 once we were 0-5 and getting ready to play.
We've got a special situation here. Eli is the king of the QB room and has earned that right. He gets almost all of the very limited snaps each week. The backup gets the rest, of which there are very few.
Now Eli has really struggled in the past couple of years to make this offense productive. That's not to say the blame is on him, it's just not working right now and he's been at the wheel. When the season effectively ended with our elimination the leadership of this club decided to see what the rest of the QB's could do.
This was such an outrage to fans everywhere and people in the media that they had to back off, reverse course entirely and now cannot see what another QB can do.
It seems to me that the position that Webb came in third in the QB competition is absurd, if there's been no competition. Even if there was a legit competition, it would have been very early in camp. Is that how competition works?
Eli is the one guy who probably needs less practice than anyone else on this team, yet almost all the practice time (as well as all the game time snaps) goes to him.
There has been and is no true competition for the QB or backup spot. Webb hasn't "lost" anything.
Quote:
Here's the thing, I still want to draft a QB round 1 no matter what happens with Webb. So it doesn't really matter to me when I see him. I just hope that when I do, it's with the full confidence from the coaching staff that he's the best option, whether it's Spags and staff now, or the next coach.
So do I, except for your last sentence. Clearly everybody would have more confidence in Eli playing out the season but that has nothing to do with why you play Webb.
I was using "best option" as an all encompassing term. It's not just best option to win games. It's best option for evaluating Webb, evaluating his teammates, etc...
We've got a special situation here. Eli is the king of the QB room and has earned that right. He gets almost all of the very limited snaps each week. The backup gets the rest, of which there are very few.
Now Eli has really struggled in the past couple of years to make this offense productive. That's not to say the blame is on him, it's just not working right now and he's been at the wheel. When the season effectively ended with our elimination the leadership of this club decided to see what the rest of the QB's could do.
This was such an outrage to fans everywhere and people in the media that they had to back off, reverse course entirely and now cannot see what another QB can do.
It seems to me that the position that Webb came in third in the QB competition is absurd, if there's been no competition. Even if there was a legit competition, it would have been very early in camp. Is that how competition works?
Eli is the one guy who probably needs less practice than anyone else on this team, yet almost all the practice time (as well as all the game time snaps) goes to him.
There has been and is no true competition for the QB or backup spot. Webb hasn't "lost" anything.
I don't think that's the angle most are taking. Being ready doesn't mean beating out Geno.
Being ready is means the things UConn pointed out. Can he take the snap from under center? Can he read a defense?
These are things that were specifically pointed out the day he was drafted by the guy that drafted him, and that the hope was that he could sit for a couple of years and learn the pro game, and not get thrown out there prematurely.
That is a direct quote from the guy that evaluated and drafted him.
And that has trickled down to even the backups who have typically found jobs because of lack of any solid decision making at that level as well. No one ever really thought ELi wouldn't play next game, next month, next season, etc. and true development was hindered...
Cons:
-Drafted by a coach and GM who have been fired
How is this a con? What difference does it make who fired him? How does that fact conflict with the other facts - he's an asset on a roster who may have value if played?
-Repeatedly said by fired coach and GM that he isn't ready
-He was drafted as a project and not expected to play for a couple of years
both the fired coach and fired GM expected to play him once the season reached this point, so who cares what they said when they thought they'd be competing for a title? That's not happening.
Furthermore, what difference does it make what the former, failed coach and GM said?
-A 3rd round pick by a GM who has a history of failed 3rd round picks
That may be a fact, but it isn't a con for playing him. It's just an excuse to NOT play him.
-Comparable to Ryan Nassib who never amounted to anything
Seriously? You might as well post that you don't like the guy. Who has compared him? None of the draft gurus I've read did. I know they all like his arm, and there were several who didn't like Nassib's delivery from the beginning.
This isn't a "con" for why he shouldn't be played, like much of your list it's a reason you don't like him - not something that would either help or hurt the franchise.
This is true, but it's true for anyone, including Eli. The question is whether ANY tape is better than NO tape.
If he's a Nassib why are you worried about him getting killed? Shouldn't you be more worried about Eli getting killed? He's younger and healthier than Eli, and far less valuable, so if we were going to offer up a sacrificial lamb why shouldn't it be the rook we couldn't care less about?
-Not going to influence what the Giants do with the first round pick
Complete speculation on your part. Not a fact at all, unless you give him zero time to prepare and then zero time on the field.
-Even after being told by ownership to play him, he STILL isn't ready in practice
I think that's what the thread is about. It's not that he isn't ready, it's that he isn't getting any practice snaps (except for the scout team stuff, running someone else's offense.)
Not sure how that is a con. By the way, he looked fine taking snaps from under center when he finally did. Why is this such a big deal?
It's not just about evaluating him, it's also about giving him a chance to grow.
Yeah, throw him out there!
Your list in its entirety is not made up of potential "harms" to the franchise because there isn't or wouldn't be any harm to the franchise by letting Davis Webb practice with the first team and prepare for some playing time.
Nothing. That's kind of why a lot of us are angry. What has been done to give this kid any kind of prep time at all?
Well then they surely did a good job in destroying that value...
So absolutely no comparison other than the draft grade the Giants gave him.
Might as well compare him to Landon Collins, who the Giants felt had a first round grade also, or any of dozens of other players they found later on that they had a first round grade on.
Even if they draft a QB, why would Webb be cut, based on
what exactly? The coaching staff not allowing him game time reps.? Geno will be gone next season.
They won't, but it wouldn't bother me.
The problem isn't "he isn't ready".
The problem is "they didn't take he steps to get him ready"
The problem isn't "he isn't ready".
The problem is "they didn't take he steps to get him ready"
And that sucks that they didn’t do that, for whatever reason. But now what? We can’t go back and if he isn’t ready it’s pointless to play him.
All college ball isn't the same. It's not how many games he's started in his college career that is the foundation of the argument.