where he needs to be, to be the #2 and active on Sundays. They know they need to evaluate him in gameplay desperately and he is still not ready to be #2? Unreal.
where he needs to be, to be the #2 and active on Sundays. They know they need to evaluate him in gameplay desperately and he is still not ready to be #2? Unreal.
I assume they never expected Webb to even dress this season, barring injury to Geno. This was supposed to be a redshirt year where he learns by watching, with Eli as mentor, then next year was supposed to be the year he steps up to backup.
In other words, they had a plan that didn't include him being prepped to play this season, and even though now that plan is down the tubes, he's not prepared. They have to accelerate his preparation but there are only so many hours of practice a week. The organization isn't willing to tank the season to get him on the field. It's a problem all around.
plan when they thought they'd be contenders. But the team is in an entirely different situation now. To tank or not to tank? That question answered itself quite a while ago.
RE: RE: Confused beyond words how Webb can be that far behind Â
where he needs to be, to be the #2 and active on Sundays. They know they need to evaluate him in gameplay desperately and he is still not ready to be #2? Unreal.
I assume they never expected Webb to even dress this season, barring injury to Geno. This was supposed to be a redshirt year where he learns by watching, with Eli as mentor, then next year was supposed to be the year he steps up to backup.
In other words, they had a plan that didn't include him being prepped to play this season, and even though now that plan is down the tubes, he's not prepared. They have to accelerate his preparation but there are only so many hours of practice a week. The organization isn't willing to tank the season to get him on the field. It's a problem all around.
Agreed. But at 0-5 they should have known that the season was likely lost, and should have started at that point to get him more reps so he could at least get into some games at the end of the season. He still might, but time is running out.
the chances that Davis Webb sucks. Nathan Peterman was in a similar spot in Buffalo with fans clamoring to see him. You saw what happened there. The coaches have seen Webb in practice. If he was lighting it up there would be some excitement and buzz and he would make a move on Geno for the 2nd spot. Didn't Josh Johnson displace Ryan Nassib as #2 last year even before Nassib's injuries?
while guys like Geno Smith and Josh Johnson actually got to compete for the backup job. Is it really that much of a stretch to imagine that Webb is no where near ready to play in a game?
The problem here is that the meddling owner decided that the coach needed help with his depth chart when the team is down and out.
Webb is going to have to compete for a job next year in a new offense
for a new coach. Who cares what he does playing in the corpse of Ben McAdoo's offense at the end of a lost season? That "evaluation" is going to mean spit come training camp. It should have zero bearing on whether or not to take a QB in the top 4. If our guy is there, we take him.
are those that think Webb playing will have any effect on what we do with our hopefully top 3 pick. Webb isn’t stopping us from taking a QB whether he plays this year or not.
Good thing you were patient with Webb. It's amazing we were told this season was going to be a redshirt year for Webb and now that it has been several have already called him a wasted pick.
are those that think Webb playing will have any effect on what we do with our hopefully top 3 pick. Webb isn’t stopping us from taking a QB whether he plays this year or not.
He isn’t ready. Remember the expectations this year. Webb was not intended to play for 2-3 years after fixing some mechanics and hoping he develops. 2-10 doesn’t change that.
likely had Eli sitting in place of Webb for the final 5 games of the season.
The one report that had Webb being ready to play from Week 14 on for the final four weeks made no sense when it was found last week that Webb was still not even moved up to the #2 spot on the depth chart and is still #3 this week.
Any plan to actually play Webb was more or less mythical. It is very difficult now to see Webb go from scout team to even 2nd team reps in 7 to 9 days and have him at least be available to play in Arizona in Week 16 if needed when you consider that Spags is trying to get the permanent job. He needs Eli to play every down in order to even have a chance.
are those that think Webb playing will have any effect on what we do with our hopefully top 3 pick. Webb isn’t stopping us from taking a QB whether he plays this year or not.
This is so shortsighted its comical.
The reason to play Webb is to begin developing Webb where where have, in essence, the "free games" to go do so. Of course the new regime will pick a QB...it would be illogical not to since Eli accomplishes nothing for us anymore.
As I mentioned before, the Giants are better served IN EVERY SINGLE SCENARIO IMAGINABLE to have Webb begin his development sooner versus later.
they are all just varying shades of ready. I do know that he will probably hand the ball off 50% of the time. And I also know he will probably have about another 25% of his passes that are immediate slants or quick throws to Engram.
So that leaves about 25% of his plays that he may actually need to read the defense, audible, scramble or get sacked.
You worried about breaking the confidence of a 3rd round pick that may not be in the NFL in several years?
Certainly he will be overshadowed by the franchise guy we pick next year, so give him some time now, right?
You mean if he reads the defense wrong and throws a pick-6 against the Cowboys or Eagles in a panic throw then he's not ready? I wonder what you thought when Eli did the same over his career...
putting a guy out there can have a negative impact for other players and coaches. From a fan perspective all they care about is Super Bowl or tank for the best pick. The nfl doesn’t operate that way, I don’t know what to tell you.
Once again, if Webb can’t beat out Geno Smith why should he get playing time? It’s a pretty simple question with a very simple answer.
you don't have to plan on him actually playing. Use him in a traditional backup role, where he only sees the field if the number one (Eli) gets hurt. In the meantime, he gets limited practice snaps to prepare for the backup role he is being groomed for, for next year at least (doubtful he goes from not being ready to do anything but scout to competing for a starting role in one offseason). If he does go into a game, we don't really care if he can provide quality relief, since we don't care if we win (in reality, the opposite).
the only caveat would be if the scout job actually gets more active time in practice than the #2 guy who probably spends most of his time holding a clipboard, or if there's not really much practice difference between 2 and 3.
putting a guy out there can have a negative impact for other players and coaches. From a fan perspective all they care about is Super Bowl or tank for the best pick. The nfl doesn’t operate that way, I don’t know what to tell you.
Once again, if Webb can’t beat out Geno Smith why should he get playing time? It’s a pretty simple question with a very simple answer.
like I said...short-sighted. Thx
I have to say I'll be disappointed if Webb doesn't start a game Â
We've seen instances already of kid QBs who may have no business playing coming in and playing well. No one thought Dak Prescott was going to play and he had less introduction to the NFL. And it's not even like we should be playing him because he's set to succeed. We're playing him to give him seasoning. Eli was shit his first year. I imagine he gained a lot of experience through the downs of it though.
I’m all for Webb getting reps if he can beat out Smith for the backup job. He hasn’t yet, either because he can’t or because the Giants have him shut down outside of an injury to those in front of him. One of those two scenarios is the correct reason, no idea which is true. But I’m not the one pretending I know what’s best for the team.
I've said, I'd be fine if they put him in if the game is a blow out, but also understand if they don't. The offense is terrible. The Giants won't learn much if anything by playing him now.
I agree that Webb won't affect whether the Giants take a QB, but only Rosen or Darnold in the top five, or Allen after a big trade down.
Even if he doesn't work out, Webb was not a wasted pick. The Giants expected to be contenders, and therefore picking near the bottom of the first round. That would mean they'd have no chance at Rosen, Darnold, or Allen.
I’m all for Webb getting reps if he can beat out Smith for the backup job. He hasn’t yet, either because he can’t or because the Giants have him shut down outside of an injury to those in front of him. One of those two scenarios is the correct reason, no idea which is true. But I’m not the one pretending I know what’s best for the team.
It seems arbitrary to say he has to be better than Geno Smith before he starts. One guy is under contract through 2021 the other guy is a pending FA. Why not see if he can play even with Geno and Eli in this offense?
where he needs to be, to be the #2 and active on Sundays. They know they need to evaluate him in gameplay desperately and he is still not ready to be #2? Unreal.
He is #2 this week. This is the first week he is running the scout team.
the chances that Davis Webb sucks. Nathan Peterman was in a similar spot in Buffalo with fans clamoring to see him. You saw what happened there. The coaches have seen Webb in practice. If he was lighting it up there would be some excitement and buzz and he would make a move on Geno for the 2nd spot. Didn't Josh Johnson displace Ryan Nassib as #2 last year even before Nassib's injuries?
The problem is they haven't seen much of him in practice. He was taking minimal before this week, including the summer.
Spags found out on Monday that he was the head coach. He has a million things to do to get this team prepared to play a game. I guarantee Webb was near the bottom of his list of things to worry about. Lets see what happens the rest of the year.
RE: I think what people also need to understand is that Â
Spags found out on Monday that he was the head coach. He has a million things to do to get this team prepared to play a game. I guarantee Webb was near the bottom of his list of things to worry about. Lets see what happens the rest of the year.
There’s a lot of stuff that people just don’t want to hear. Apparently just growing him out there is easy. Forget the entire rest of the team, Davis Webb is the only one that matters somehow...
The whole situation has been so mishandled it is almost incomprehensible. Spags shouldn't be taking heat over this since he is the most recent one in charge. This has been botched from the get-go. The time to let him fail was in training camp competing for the backup QB position. Not giving him any team reps in the regular season and barely any in the preseason/training camp is where it was botched. Throwing him in a game without the necessary preparation is not wise. If you don't believe me about the team reps go back and look at Webb's comment entering what I think was the 2nd preseason game. He was asked if he is ready and he said yes he has taken every snap because he is mentally into every play. He has gotten every mental rep. He said he was looking forward to getting some team reps for the first time and that was the week of him getting playing time in the preseason. That is just absurd.
That means he is used to playing "up." With the exception of the first couple games , the other team was better, sometimes much better. The talent spread in college is much greater than it is in the NFL.
Get him the hell on the field before this disaster ends .
Pretty clear he isn't ready. The guy is third string. He can't beat out G Smith. What more do you need to know?
Next, this coaching staff is trying to win. Evaluating players when these coaches may not even be here next year is the last thing on their minds.
Finally, you are putting a green QB behind a semi-NFL line and having him throw to practice squad caliber WRs. What kind of evaluation do you expect to get from that?
Does everyone remember how Eli looked at the start? Like a 7th round reject. It’s totally possible that Webb can be a great qb. He certainly checks all the boxes off the field. Hard working. Studious. All the measurables. Seems like he won’t get into trouble or make bad headlines. Everyone is so sure he can’t do it on the field? Show him the patience shown Eli and we might be surprised. It might still be a great plan to trade down, fortify the o line and parts of the D, get a rb, let Eli play the next 2 years and then let Webb take over. I’d like a competent talent evaluator to make that choice. I do think letting Webb play a bit would help.
Or at least see him as the #2 and even if he didn't play a snap all year at least he got #2 reps in practice and had to prepare for possible burn in a real game. That in itself would have been better than the alternative. Could have kicked Webb up the depth chart after the Giants lost their 8th game.
Honestly I'd probably still draft a QB even if Webb played admirably in one of these bs games. But that doesn't make this "plan" by nyg any more palatable. But like someone else said maybe Webb truly is a nightmare under center right now. IT has happened before.
I really don't think some of you understand how QBs work Â
and how the NFL works. Who said Webb couldn't beat out Smith? You cannot beat someone if you arent in competition with him. Once Geno waw named the number 2 there was practically no way for Webb to be bumped up since all he does is deal with the scout team. He isn't practicing the Giants plays on the scout team. The only way for him to be bumped up now is the simple fact that ownership wants to see it. Otherwise it isnt happening.
We've seen instances already of kid QBs who may have no business playing coming in and playing well. No one thought Dak Prescott was going to play and he had less introduction to the NFL. And it's not even like we should be playing him because he's set to succeed. We're playing him to give him seasoning. Eli was shit his first year. I imagine he gained a lot of experience through the downs of it though.
saying eli was "shit" his first year is stupid revisionist history. he had a mediocre three games, followed by three very bad games, bottoming out against baltimore, then he looked sharp vs. pittsburgh, cincinnati and dallas.
What is the point of putting him out there in these conditions? Â
Does anyone know what they are doing? Why then pickup a QB in the 3rd round?? Do the Giants want to know what they have in him? They shouldn't have wasted a 3rd rounder on him then, and just picked up Alvin Kamara?! smh. Glad Reese is gone.
this was stated and borne out as truth since he did not compete for two spot in the pre season and he never dresses.
Season was destroyed so you could argue the plan should have changed to start getting him reps to move up to number two.
Why would this not happen?
One, teams seem to put a lot of emphasis
on actually being mathematically eliminated. That ninth loss means a great deal to the players and coaches. Up until them the staff is still looking to make a run this season. String together some wins, sure there was no future for this team, but winning could have saved their jobs. So until loss nine the season is not "over" so Geno stays two.
Two, based on everything that happened with bench - gate, I think McAdoo was dying to sit Eli and get Smith in the game. He wanted a chance to run his pop gun offense with Geno who is more mobile. John Mara even responded in the affirmative during the WFAN interview that McAdoo had an issue with Eli's mobility. Getting Webb ready was never a priority for McAdoo because he knew he would likely not be here next year if the loses kept coming and he wanted to start Smith to prove he was not the problem to save his job or audition for a future coaching job. He ensured Geno was number two, because the season was alive until loss nine and he wanted to play Geno anyway.
When the season was dead and Mara supposedly asked about trying to see other QB'S, McAdoo saw his chance to sit Eli and get Geno in. This was not exactly what ownership wanted, but McAdoo and Reese took the I would rather ask forgiveness than permission and put in their desperation play a QB a half plan which was rejected by Eli and allowed McAdoo the chance to live his dream and play Geno Smith as a hail mary chance to save his career. Now, as HC you could argue he can play any QB he wants, but this was a unique situation with the streak, the overwhelming love for one of the best of all time, and the fact that it seems clear, at least to me, that QB was not the main reason this offense is a league wide joke.
Long story short,McAdoo never really cared about changing the plan to redshirt Webb because it would not help the team win now or improve on offense to save his job.
Also, this team is one Giant cluster fuck. I for one am very happy a full house cleaning will be taking place. It is long overdue.
RE: What is the point of putting him out there in these conditions? Â
didn't need him in 2017 since they felt they would be competitive AND we never sit Eli anyway. Not saying this should be the plan but understandable with limited team practice time and since we probably aren't that good at developing QBs anyway.
The losing begins. It becomes a disaster. Disaster seasons call for changes; however when you have a moron coach and GM, the changes never came. Webb should have been brought up the priority list of things to do, but wasn't.
Finally desperation sinks in and the benching fiasco occurs. Out goes Eli, in goes Geno and some light commentary arises towards maybe seeing Webb. Finally...it takes a franchise to move mountains but somebody wakes up (Mara) and realizes and reminds people they drafted a rookie QB last May.
Out goes the moron coach and GM, in comes the moron DC who is probably lost in space trying to get ready as coach this week if he ever wants another job.
Webb conversation now bounces between practice squad and maybe being the #2. However, the only real #2 on this team is the big pile of shit everybody with decision-making authority keeps stepping in.
I emplore you...start playing Webb. The team's opportunities down the line are only better if you do.
I'm thinking of letting my six year old drive a car on the interstate Â
Finally, you are putting a green QB behind a semi-NFL line and having him throw to practice squad caliber WRs. What kind of evaluation do you expect to get from that?
I don't know, but if the offense puts up 10-17 points with Webb it tells me we really have three 3rd string QBs...
that way when he crashes and burns, a near certainty, Googs will shut up about him.
the dolt of a GM has never drafted a qb who stuck in the NFL even as a backup after stealing Mara's money on an initial contract but he found a diamond in Webb check.
if the FO has an ounce of brains a debatable proposition, ee are picking a qb #1 which means is a camp arm, cut and probably headed for a CFL tryout
-Drafted by a coach and GM who have been fired
-Repeatedly said by fired coach and GM that he isn't ready
-He was drafted as a project and not expected to play for a couple of years
-A 3rd round pick by a GM who has a history of failed 3rd round picks
-Comparable to Ryan Nassib who never amounted to anything
-A poor roster around him on offense which makes it difficult to evaluate him
-A poor offensive line, now with injury substitutions and reshuffling as well, which could get him killed, or at the very least stunt his growth if there is any to be had
-Not going to influence what the Giants do with the first round pick
-Even after being told by ownership to play him, he STILL isn't ready in practice
-Never took a snap from under center until 3 months ago.
-Rudderless offensive scheme, which will likely be completely different next year, so you're wasting your time having him go out and evaluate him in it....
I'm fine seeing Davis Webb play. That's totally fine.
But if he's not ready, he's not ready. And I don't want him thrown out there before he's ready to actually do something. Especially not to quench the thirst of the uninformed fans.
Ready doesn’t mean play well or win games. Ready means the guy can take snaps from under center, make some reads, and process what is happening. Maybe that doesn’t mean anything to some people but it does to the coaching staff and teammates or are beating themselves up on every play.
If he can’t do any of the above he has no business seeing the field.
Ready doesn’t mean play well or win games. Ready means the guy can take snaps from under center, make some reads, and process what is happening. Maybe that doesn’t mean anything to some people but it does to the coaching staff and teammates or are beating themselves up on every play.
If he can’t do any of the above he has no business seeing the field.
Exactly, this is pretty simple stuff.
No, I just want to see Webb throw a 4-yard pass when we need 6 yards Â
Ready doesn’t mean play well or win games. Ready means the guy can take snaps from under center, make some reads, and process what is happening. Maybe that doesn’t mean anything to some people but it does to the coaching staff and teammates or are beating themselves up on every play.
If he can’t do any of the above he has no business seeing the field.
Exactly, this is pretty simple stuff.
Agree, its pretty simple stuff. Lets see if he can do it...
Ready doesn’t mean play well or win games. Ready means the guy can take snaps from under center, make some reads, and process what is happening. Maybe that doesn’t mean anything to some people but it does to the coaching staff and teammates or are beating themselves up on every play.
If he can’t do any of the above he has no business seeing the field.
Exactly, this is pretty simple stuff.
Agree, its pretty simple stuff. Lets see if he can do it...
if he can’t do it on the scout team (I don’t know if he can or can’t) why would he then be able to do it in a real game against the best competition?
I really don’t get this whole debate. We all want to see if Webb has something but there is so much going against him right now and that’s before we get into how “ready”’he is. This I’m right and your wrong bullshit is just that.
if anyone is it’s you. I provided reasons why he may not be playing. Your retort is that of a 14 year old freshman.
I don’t know what he can do, neither do you. But I think the Giants might and right now isn’t his time. Maybe it will be in a couple of weeks. Until then enjoy acting like you are the smartest man in the room.
And I provided reasons why he should be getting snaps Â
you don't have to be insulting because you disagree. And citing the Giants on your side isn't exactly helping me sway to your view in the debate. He seems to be heading to the cause of playing which is all i wanted only sooner.
Everything else thru the end of this season is a waste of time...
Hell, I hope he throws multiple TD's and looks great. Who doesn't?
Here's the thing, I still want to draft a QB round 1 no matter what happens with Webb. So it doesn't really matter to me when I see him. I just hope that when I do, it's with the full confidence from the coaching staff that he's the best option, whether it's Spags and staff now, or the next coach.
I don't monitor your positions. Just what you posted here... Â
Here's the thing, I still want to draft a QB round 1 no matter what happens with Webb. So it doesn't really matter to me when I see him. I just hope that when I do, it's with the full confidence from the coaching staff that he's the best option, whether it's Spags and staff now, or the next coach.
So do I, except for your last sentence. Clearly everybody would have more confidence in Eli playing out the season but that has nothing to do with why you play Webb.
RE: If the Giants end up with a top 4 pick or so Â
We've got a special situation here. Eli is the king of the QB room and has earned that right. He gets almost all of the very limited snaps each week. The backup gets the rest, of which there are very few.
Now Eli has really struggled in the past couple of years to make this offense productive. That's not to say the blame is on him, it's just not working right now and he's been at the wheel. When the season effectively ended with our elimination the leadership of this club decided to see what the rest of the QB's could do.
This was such an outrage to fans everywhere and people in the media that they had to back off, reverse course entirely and now cannot see what another QB can do.
It seems to me that the position that Webb came in third in the QB competition is absurd, if there's been no competition. Even if there was a legit competition, it would have been very early in camp. Is that how competition works?
Eli is the one guy who probably needs less practice than anyone else on this team, yet almost all the practice time (as well as all the game time snaps) goes to him.
There has been and is no true competition for the QB or backup spot. Webb hasn't "lost" anything.
RE: RE: I hope the guy comes in and lights it up.... Â
Here's the thing, I still want to draft a QB round 1 no matter what happens with Webb. So it doesn't really matter to me when I see him. I just hope that when I do, it's with the full confidence from the coaching staff that he's the best option, whether it's Spags and staff now, or the next coach.
So do I, except for your last sentence. Clearly everybody would have more confidence in Eli playing out the season but that has nothing to do with why you play Webb.
I was using "best option" as an all encompassing term. It's not just best option to win games. It's best option for evaluating Webb, evaluating his teammates, etc...
Understood. I was just saying you can't wait around for some ideal Â
We've got a special situation here. Eli is the king of the QB room and has earned that right. He gets almost all of the very limited snaps each week. The backup gets the rest, of which there are very few.
Now Eli has really struggled in the past couple of years to make this offense productive. That's not to say the blame is on him, it's just not working right now and he's been at the wheel. When the season effectively ended with our elimination the leadership of this club decided to see what the rest of the QB's could do.
This was such an outrage to fans everywhere and people in the media that they had to back off, reverse course entirely and now cannot see what another QB can do.
It seems to me that the position that Webb came in third in the QB competition is absurd, if there's been no competition. Even if there was a legit competition, it would have been very early in camp. Is that how competition works?
Eli is the one guy who probably needs less practice than anyone else on this team, yet almost all the practice time (as well as all the game time snaps) goes to him.
There has been and is no true competition for the QB or backup spot. Webb hasn't "lost" anything.
I don't think that's the angle most are taking. Being ready doesn't mean beating out Geno.
Being ready is means the things UConn pointed out. Can he take the snap from under center? Can he read a defense?
These are things that were specifically pointed out the day he was drafted by the guy that drafted him, and that the hope was that he could sit for a couple of years and learn the pro game, and not get thrown out there prematurely.
That is a direct quote from the guy that evaluated and drafted him.
some good points. QB competition on the Giants has been a folly for the past 14 years because of Eli's presence.
And that has trickled down to even the backups who have typically found jobs because of lack of any solid decision making at that level as well. No one ever really thought ELi wouldn't play next game, next month, next season, etc. and true development was hindered...
“We think [Webb] has a high ceiling and can come in and learn the pro game,” Giants general manager Jerry Reese told the New York Post, adding, “Hopefully, he can sit behind Eli for two or three years.”
Quote:
“We’re hoping he doesn’t have to be the guy that’s thrown into the fire,” Ross said. “We hope he can work on his skill.”
With all due respect, those two quotes were a GM saying Â
How is this a con? What difference does it make who fired him? How does that fact conflict with the other facts - he's an asset on a roster who may have value if played?
Quote:
-Repeatedly said by fired coach and GM that he isn't ready
-He was drafted as a project and not expected to play for a couple of years
both the fired coach and fired GM expected to play him once the season reached this point, so who cares what they said when they thought they'd be competing for a title? That's not happening.
Furthermore, what difference does it make what the former, failed coach and GM said?
Quote:
-A 3rd round pick by a GM who has a history of failed 3rd round picks
That may be a fact, but it isn't a con for playing him. It's just an excuse to NOT play him.
Quote:
-Comparable to Ryan Nassib who never amounted to anything
Seriously? You might as well post that you don't like the guy. Who has compared him? None of the draft gurus I've read did. I know they all like his arm, and there were several who didn't like Nassib's delivery from the beginning.
This isn't a "con" for why he shouldn't be played, like much of your list it's a reason you don't like him - not something that would either help or hurt the franchise.
Quote:
-A poor roster around him on offense which makes it difficult to evaluate him
This is true, but it's true for anyone, including Eli. The question is whether ANY tape is better than NO tape.
Quote:
-A poor offensive line, now with injury substitutions and reshuffling as well, which could get him killed, or at the very least stunt his growth if there is any to be had
If he's a Nassib why are you worried about him getting killed? Shouldn't you be more worried about Eli getting killed? He's younger and healthier than Eli, and far less valuable, so if we were going to offer up a sacrificial lamb why shouldn't it be the rook we couldn't care less about?
Quote:
-Not going to influence what the Giants do with the first round pick
Complete speculation on your part. Not a fact at all, unless you give him zero time to prepare and then zero time on the field.
Quote:
-Even after being told by ownership to play him, he STILL isn't ready in practice
I think that's what the thread is about. It's not that he isn't ready, it's that he isn't getting any practice snaps (except for the scout team stuff, running someone else's offense.)
Quote:
-Never took a snap from under center until 3 months ago.
Not sure how that is a con. By the way, he looked fine taking snaps from under center when he finally did. Why is this such a big deal?
Quote:
-Rudderless offensive scheme, which will likely be completely different next year, so you're wasting your time having him go out and evaluate him in it....
It's not just about evaluating him, it's also about giving him a chance to grow.
Quote:
Am I missing anything?
Yeah, throw him out there!
Your list in its entirety is not made up of potential "harms" to the franchise because there isn't or wouldn't be any harm to the franchise by letting Davis Webb practice with the first team and prepare for some playing time.
What has happened this year that indicates he's ready? Â
that the Giants felt they found first round QB value in the 3rd/4th round.
So absolutely no comparison other than the draft grade the Giants gave him.
Might as well compare him to Landon Collins, who the Giants felt had a first round grade also, or any of dozens of other players they found later on that they had a first round grade on.
that way when we draft a qb #1 and Webb is cut after camp next year never to be seen again, we will be spared the endless "Webb would've been a star if . . ." threads.
This is Jerrel Jernigan all over again in a lot of ways Â
that way when we draft a qb #1 and Webb is cut after camp next year never to be seen again, we will be spared the endless "Webb would've been a star if . . ." threads.
Even if they draft a QB, why would Webb be cut, based on
what exactly? The coaching staff not allowing him game time reps.? Geno will be gone next season.
That this kid is not anywhere close to being ready. There is no point to sticking him out there to see "what he can do" because he can't do shit and the staff knows this.
In other words, they had a plan that didn't include him being prepped to play this season, and even though now that plan is down the tubes, he's not prepared. They have to accelerate his preparation but there are only so many hours of practice a week. The organization isn't willing to tank the season to get him on the field. It's a problem all around.
How many 3rd round QBs dominate the league? I count 1...
Quote:
where he needs to be, to be the #2 and active on Sundays. They know they need to evaluate him in gameplay desperately and he is still not ready to be #2? Unreal.
I assume they never expected Webb to even dress this season, barring injury to Geno. This was supposed to be a redshirt year where he learns by watching, with Eli as mentor, then next year was supposed to be the year he steps up to backup.
In other words, they had a plan that didn't include him being prepped to play this season, and even though now that plan is down the tubes, he's not prepared. They have to accelerate his preparation but there are only so many hours of practice a week. The organization isn't willing to tank the season to get him on the field. It's a problem all around.
Agreed. But at 0-5 they should have known that the season was likely lost, and should have started at that point to get him more reps so he could at least get into some games at the end of the season. He still might, but time is running out.
Thanks Nostradamus
The problem here is that the meddling owner decided that the coach needed help with his depth chart when the team is down and out.
Webb is going to have to compete for a job next year in a new offense
for a new coach. Who cares what he does playing in the corpse of Ben McAdoo's offense at the end of a lost season? That "evaluation" is going to mean spit come training camp. It should have zero bearing on whether or not to take a QB in the top 4. If our guy is there, we take him.
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that a 3rd rounder from Reese isn't dominating the league.
How many 3rd round QBs dominate the league? I count 1...
Then why draft one at all? And leave the OL til rd 6
Good thing you were patient with Webb. It's amazing we were told this season was going to be a redshirt year for Webb and now that it has been several have already called him a wasted pick.
This
The one report that had Webb being ready to play from Week 14 on for the final four weeks made no sense when it was found last week that Webb was still not even moved up to the #2 spot on the depth chart and is still #3 this week.
Any plan to actually play Webb was more or less mythical. It is very difficult now to see Webb go from scout team to even 2nd team reps in 7 to 9 days and have him at least be available to play in Arizona in Week 16 if needed when you consider that Spags is trying to get the permanent job. He needs Eli to play every down in order to even have a chance.
This is so shortsighted its comical.
The reason to play Webb is to begin developing Webb where where have, in essence, the "free games" to go do so. Of course the new regime will pick a QB...it would be illogical not to since Eli accomplishes nothing for us anymore.
As I mentioned before, the Giants are better served IN EVERY SINGLE SCENARIO IMAGINABLE to have Webb begin his development sooner versus later.
its not even debatable...
I’ve said I wouldn’t care if he played if he’s ready. All signs point to him not being ready. I have no idea why this is such a big issue.
So unless you know something that everyone else doesn’t about how ready he is than it’s really just an uneducated opinion.
So that leaves about 25% of his plays that he may actually need to read the defense, audible, scramble or get sacked.
How exciting not to be perfectly ready...
Certainly he will be overshadowed by the franchise guy we pick next year, so give him some time now, right?
You mean if he reads the defense wrong and throws a pick-6 against the Cowboys or Eagles in a panic throw then he's not ready? I wonder what you thought when Eli did the same over his career...
Once again, if Webb can’t beat out Geno Smith why should he get playing time? It’s a pretty simple question with a very simple answer.
the only caveat would be if the scout job actually gets more active time in practice than the #2 guy who probably spends most of his time holding a clipboard, or if there's not really much practice difference between 2 and 3.
Once again, if Webb can’t beat out Geno Smith why should he get playing time? It’s a pretty simple question with a very simple answer.
like I said...short-sighted. Thx
That doesn't mean he can't come in for the fourth quarter during a blowout.
I agree that Webb won't affect whether the Giants take a QB, but only Rosen or Darnold in the top five, or Allen after a big trade down.
Even if he doesn't work out, Webb was not a wasted pick. The Giants expected to be contenders, and therefore picking near the bottom of the first round. That would mean they'd have no chance at Rosen, Darnold, or Allen.
It seems arbitrary to say he has to be better than Geno Smith before he starts. One guy is under contract through 2021 the other guy is a pending FA. Why not see if he can play even with Geno and Eli in this offense?
There’s a lot of stuff that people just don’t want to hear. Apparently just growing him out there is easy. Forget the entire rest of the team, Davis Webb is the only one that matters somehow...
If they got him ready and he played 4-6 games he could have had an impact on the team building plan.
He's a very talented thrower. If he went out there and played well how can you say it couldn't have an impact?
Get him the hell on the field before this disaster ends .
But anyone thinking he is the future Just never saw him play st Cal
Next, this coaching staff is trying to win. Evaluating players when these coaches may not even be here next year is the last thing on their minds.
Finally, you are putting a green QB behind a semi-NFL line and having him throw to practice squad caliber WRs. What kind of evaluation do you expect to get from that?
Enough already.
Honestly I'd probably still draft a QB even if Webb played admirably in one of these bs games. But that doesn't make this "plan" by nyg any more palatable. But like someone else said maybe Webb truly is a nightmare under center right now. IT has happened before.
If I had to guess, I'd think they would grab a QB...just in case. It's the safe and maybe prudent thing to do.
saying eli was "shit" his first year is stupid revisionist history. he had a mediocre three games, followed by three very bad games, bottoming out against baltimore, then he looked sharp vs. pittsburgh, cincinnati and dallas.
That is not the point.
The problem is they did not take the last 8 weeks to get him ready. They did nothing to prepare this QB to play.
Even the last few weeks. Nothing.
The season is over. Has been for a while. They wasted valuable practice and playing time that could have been used to evaluate a talented QB.
Instead..."he isn't ready".
STFU with that.
Season was destroyed so you could argue the plan should have changed to start getting him reps to move up to number two.
Why would this not happen?
One, teams seem to put a lot of emphasis
on actually being mathematically eliminated. That ninth loss means a great deal to the players and coaches. Up until them the staff is still looking to make a run this season. String together some wins, sure there was no future for this team, but winning could have saved their jobs. So until loss nine the season is not "over" so Geno stays two.
Two, based on everything that happened with bench - gate, I think McAdoo was dying to sit Eli and get Smith in the game. He wanted a chance to run his pop gun offense with Geno who is more mobile. John Mara even responded in the affirmative during the WFAN interview that McAdoo had an issue with Eli's mobility. Getting Webb ready was never a priority for McAdoo because he knew he would likely not be here next year if the loses kept coming and he wanted to start Smith to prove he was not the problem to save his job or audition for a future coaching job. He ensured Geno was number two, because the season was alive until loss nine and he wanted to play Geno anyway.
When the season was dead and Mara supposedly asked about trying to see other QB'S, McAdoo saw his chance to sit Eli and get Geno in. This was not exactly what ownership wanted, but McAdoo and Reese took the I would rather ask forgiveness than permission and put in their desperation play a QB a half plan which was rejected by Eli and allowed McAdoo the chance to live his dream and play Geno Smith as a hail mary chance to save his career. Now, as HC you could argue he can play any QB he wants, but this was a unique situation with the streak, the overwhelming love for one of the best of all time, and the fact that it seems clear, at least to me, that QB was not the main reason this offense is a league wide joke.
Long story short,McAdoo never really cared about changing the plan to redshirt Webb because it would not help the team win now or improve on offense to save his job.
Also, this team is one Giant cluster fuck. I for one am very happy a full house cleaning will be taking place. It is long overdue.
Actually, that is one of the things you want to know. Especially if he keeps his eyes downfield looking to make a play while he does it.
amongst others...
The losing begins. It becomes a disaster. Disaster seasons call for changes; however when you have a moron coach and GM, the changes never came. Webb should have been brought up the priority list of things to do, but wasn't.
Finally desperation sinks in and the benching fiasco occurs. Out goes Eli, in goes Geno and some light commentary arises towards maybe seeing Webb. Finally...it takes a franchise to move mountains but somebody wakes up (Mara) and realizes and reminds people they drafted a rookie QB last May.
Out goes the moron coach and GM, in comes the moron DC who is probably lost in space trying to get ready as coach this week if he ever wants another job.
Webb conversation now bounces between practice squad and maybe being the #2. However, the only real #2 on this team is the big pile of shit everybody with decision-making authority keeps stepping in.
I emplore you...start playing Webb. The team's opportunities down the line are only better if you do.
That is not the point.
The problem is they did not take the last 8 weeks to get him ready. They did nothing to prepare this QB to play.
Even the last few weeks. Nothing.
The season is over. Has been for a while. They wasted valuable practice and playing time that could have been used to evaluate a talented QB.
Instead..."he isn't ready".
STFU with that.
He isn't ready.
Finally, you are putting a green QB behind a semi-NFL line and having him throw to practice squad caliber WRs. What kind of evaluation do you expect to get from that?
I don't know, but if the offense puts up 10-17 points with Webb it tells me we really have three 3rd string QBs...
the dolt of a GM has never drafted a qb who stuck in the NFL even as a backup after stealing Mara's money on an initial contract but he found a diamond in Webb check.
if the FO has an ounce of brains a debatable proposition, ee are picking a qb #1 which means is a camp arm, cut and probably headed for a CFL tryout
Cons:
-Drafted by a coach and GM who have been fired
-Repeatedly said by fired coach and GM that he isn't ready
-He was drafted as a project and not expected to play for a couple of years
-A 3rd round pick by a GM who has a history of failed 3rd round picks
-Comparable to Ryan Nassib who never amounted to anything
-A poor roster around him on offense which makes it difficult to evaluate him
-A poor offensive line, now with injury substitutions and reshuffling as well, which could get him killed, or at the very least stunt his growth if there is any to be had
-Not going to influence what the Giants do with the first round pick
-Even after being told by ownership to play him, he STILL isn't ready in practice
-Never took a snap from under center until 3 months ago.
-Rudderless offensive scheme, which will likely be completely different next year, so you're wasting your time having him go out and evaluate him in it....
Am I missing anything?
Yeah, throw him out there!
.
Irrelevant.
.
So lets put out the guy that matters the least to you...
But you won't see much, and it won't be meaningful. But at the very least maybe it will shut some people up finally.
So lets put out the guy that matters the least to you...
That's all you've got.
That's fine, it's still not a reason to play a kid who isn't ready to play.
I'm fine seeing Davis Webb play. That's totally fine.
But if he's not ready, he's not ready. And I don't want him thrown out there before he's ready to actually do something. Especially not to quench the thirst of the uninformed fans.
Ha, what's magical about it? You either are or you aren't.
He's clearly not, and all the signs point to it.
Would you let a guy operate on you that hasn't finished medical school yet?
I guess Eli's not ready because we certainly have seen him struggle lately...
For fans, not so much apparently.
With that view at the helm, enjoy the next 2 years of Eli running the show...
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so, enjoy another week of Davis Webb not being ready.
With that view at the helm, enjoy the next 2 years of Eli running the show...
I will, thanks.
If he can’t do any of the above he has no business seeing the field.
And yet you wanted these guys to play Davis Webb and evaluate him. Good call.
If he can’t do any of the above he has no business seeing the field.
Exactly, this is pretty simple stuff.
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Ready doesn’t mean play well or win games. Ready means the guy can take snaps from under center, make some reads, and process what is happening. Maybe that doesn’t mean anything to some people but it does to the coaching staff and teammates or are beating themselves up on every play.
If he can’t do any of the above he has no business seeing the field.
Exactly, this is pretty simple stuff.
Agree, its pretty simple stuff. Lets see if he can do it...
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In comment 13732276 UConn4523 said:
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Ready doesn’t mean play well or win games. Ready means the guy can take snaps from under center, make some reads, and process what is happening. Maybe that doesn’t mean anything to some people but it does to the coaching staff and teammates or are beating themselves up on every play.
If he can’t do any of the above he has no business seeing the field.
Exactly, this is pretty simple stuff.
Agree, its pretty simple stuff. Lets see if he can do it...
What do you think they're doing in practice?
I really don’t get this whole debate. We all want to see if Webb has something but there is so much going against him right now and that’s before we get into how “ready”’he is. This I’m right and your wrong bullshit is just that.
But stop acting like Webb is 14 year old freshman in high school. He's a football player...
I don’t know what he can do, neither do you. But I think the Giants might and right now isn’t his time. Maybe it will be in a couple of weeks. Until then enjoy acting like you are the smartest man in the room.
Everything else thru the end of this season is a waste of time...
You also were the one throwing insults, just in case you forgot that. Just reread your own posts if you don’t believe me.
Here's the thing, I still want to draft a QB round 1 no matter what happens with Webb. So it doesn't really matter to me when I see him. I just hope that when I do, it's with the full confidence from the coaching staff that he's the best option, whether it's Spags and staff now, or the next coach.
There is nothing Webb could show in these last few games that would change this.
Here's the thing, I still want to draft a QB round 1 no matter what happens with Webb. So it doesn't really matter to me when I see him. I just hope that when I do, it's with the full confidence from the coaching staff that he's the best option, whether it's Spags and staff now, or the next coach.
So do I, except for your last sentence. Clearly everybody would have more confidence in Eli playing out the season but that has nothing to do with why you play Webb.
There is nothing Webb could show in these last few games that would change this.
Agree. You play Webb for the simple reason that we are better off having Webb begin his development as a QB in all scenarios going forward.
There is nothing Webb could show in these last few games that would change this.
If they end up top 2, they're taking a QB anything lower than that and Rosen and Darnold might be gone.
Which is why Webb should have been the #2 once we were 0-5 and getting ready to play.
We've got a special situation here. Eli is the king of the QB room and has earned that right. He gets almost all of the very limited snaps each week. The backup gets the rest, of which there are very few.
Now Eli has really struggled in the past couple of years to make this offense productive. That's not to say the blame is on him, it's just not working right now and he's been at the wheel. When the season effectively ended with our elimination the leadership of this club decided to see what the rest of the QB's could do.
This was such an outrage to fans everywhere and people in the media that they had to back off, reverse course entirely and now cannot see what another QB can do.
It seems to me that the position that Webb came in third in the QB competition is absurd, if there's been no competition. Even if there was a legit competition, it would have been very early in camp. Is that how competition works?
Eli is the one guy who probably needs less practice than anyone else on this team, yet almost all the practice time (as well as all the game time snaps) goes to him.
There has been and is no true competition for the QB or backup spot. Webb hasn't "lost" anything.
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Here's the thing, I still want to draft a QB round 1 no matter what happens with Webb. So it doesn't really matter to me when I see him. I just hope that when I do, it's with the full confidence from the coaching staff that he's the best option, whether it's Spags and staff now, or the next coach.
So do I, except for your last sentence. Clearly everybody would have more confidence in Eli playing out the season but that has nothing to do with why you play Webb.
I was using "best option" as an all encompassing term. It's not just best option to win games. It's best option for evaluating Webb, evaluating his teammates, etc...
We've got a special situation here. Eli is the king of the QB room and has earned that right. He gets almost all of the very limited snaps each week. The backup gets the rest, of which there are very few.
Now Eli has really struggled in the past couple of years to make this offense productive. That's not to say the blame is on him, it's just not working right now and he's been at the wheel. When the season effectively ended with our elimination the leadership of this club decided to see what the rest of the QB's could do.
This was such an outrage to fans everywhere and people in the media that they had to back off, reverse course entirely and now cannot see what another QB can do.
It seems to me that the position that Webb came in third in the QB competition is absurd, if there's been no competition. Even if there was a legit competition, it would have been very early in camp. Is that how competition works?
Eli is the one guy who probably needs less practice than anyone else on this team, yet almost all the practice time (as well as all the game time snaps) goes to him.
There has been and is no true competition for the QB or backup spot. Webb hasn't "lost" anything.
I don't think that's the angle most are taking. Being ready doesn't mean beating out Geno.
Being ready is means the things UConn pointed out. Can he take the snap from under center? Can he read a defense?
These are things that were specifically pointed out the day he was drafted by the guy that drafted him, and that the hope was that he could sit for a couple of years and learn the pro game, and not get thrown out there prematurely.
That is a direct quote from the guy that evaluated and drafted him.
And that has trickled down to even the backups who have typically found jobs because of lack of any solid decision making at that level as well. No one ever really thought ELi wouldn't play next game, next month, next season, etc. and true development was hindered...
Cons:
-Drafted by a coach and GM who have been fired
How is this a con? What difference does it make who fired him? How does that fact conflict with the other facts - he's an asset on a roster who may have value if played?
-Repeatedly said by fired coach and GM that he isn't ready
-He was drafted as a project and not expected to play for a couple of years
both the fired coach and fired GM expected to play him once the season reached this point, so who cares what they said when they thought they'd be competing for a title? That's not happening.
Furthermore, what difference does it make what the former, failed coach and GM said?
-A 3rd round pick by a GM who has a history of failed 3rd round picks
That may be a fact, but it isn't a con for playing him. It's just an excuse to NOT play him.
-Comparable to Ryan Nassib who never amounted to anything
Seriously? You might as well post that you don't like the guy. Who has compared him? None of the draft gurus I've read did. I know they all like his arm, and there were several who didn't like Nassib's delivery from the beginning.
This isn't a "con" for why he shouldn't be played, like much of your list it's a reason you don't like him - not something that would either help or hurt the franchise.
This is true, but it's true for anyone, including Eli. The question is whether ANY tape is better than NO tape.
If he's a Nassib why are you worried about him getting killed? Shouldn't you be more worried about Eli getting killed? He's younger and healthier than Eli, and far less valuable, so if we were going to offer up a sacrificial lamb why shouldn't it be the rook we couldn't care less about?
-Not going to influence what the Giants do with the first round pick
Complete speculation on your part. Not a fact at all, unless you give him zero time to prepare and then zero time on the field.
-Even after being told by ownership to play him, he STILL isn't ready in practice
I think that's what the thread is about. It's not that he isn't ready, it's that he isn't getting any practice snaps (except for the scout team stuff, running someone else's offense.)
Not sure how that is a con. By the way, he looked fine taking snaps from under center when he finally did. Why is this such a big deal?
It's not just about evaluating him, it's also about giving him a chance to grow.
Yeah, throw him out there!
Your list in its entirety is not made up of potential "harms" to the franchise because there isn't or wouldn't be any harm to the franchise by letting Davis Webb practice with the first team and prepare for some playing time.
Nothing. That's kind of why a lot of us are angry. What has been done to give this kid any kind of prep time at all?
Well then they surely did a good job in destroying that value...
So absolutely no comparison other than the draft grade the Giants gave him.
Might as well compare him to Landon Collins, who the Giants felt had a first round grade also, or any of dozens of other players they found later on that they had a first round grade on.
Even if they draft a QB, why would Webb be cut, based on
what exactly? The coaching staff not allowing him game time reps.? Geno will be gone next season.
They won't, but it wouldn't bother me.
The problem isn't "he isn't ready".
The problem is "they didn't take he steps to get him ready"
The problem isn't "he isn't ready".
The problem is "they didn't take he steps to get him ready"
And that sucks that they didn’t do that, for whatever reason. But now what? We can’t go back and if he isn’t ready it’s pointless to play him.
All college ball isn't the same. It's not how many games he's started in his college career that is the foundation of the argument.