Reports this morning that the plan is for Eli to start rest of season. I was part of the camp like most that obviously did not think they handled Eli situation well. With that said, I fully support Macs intention of evaluating guys when you're 2-10. You got to Davis Webb an opportunity here. Some will say he's not ready- so what? It will help accelerate his development.
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System quarterback with more than 65 percent of his attempts coming inside of 10 yards. Webb has enough raw talent to be considered a developmental prospect, but his decision-making and accuracy issues beyond 10 yards is a big red flag that might be tough to overcome in the NFL.
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Britt, so how did Mara expect to see Webb playing in cleanup situations the rest of the year as he said publicly he told Reese?
Yeah, well... Wish in one hand, shit in the other and see which one gets filled first.
It clearly means Mara expected to see him on the field before the end of the year. If Reese's response to him had been:
"Mr. Mara. That's not possible with the time left this year and the preparation he needs".
If Reese had responded that way, Mara would have mentioned the conversation in his public statement - so its pretty clear Mara didn't get push back and Mara expected to see Webb this year. Not sure why that expectation would have changed in any way - and I'm therefore at a loss to understand why Webb can't get some game time before the season is over.
I'm not really interested in seeing him. But if Mara wanted to see him get some playing time - and Reese didn't raise the objections you are mentioning - then why isn't Webb going to get some playing time? I'm confused.
Pretty much end of story.
It's like people just assume there's no learning curve at all for rookie QB's. Webb was thought to be a project from the day we drafted him. No one had him pegged as a guy who could just step right in and play. But now all of a sudden, several fans think he can.
This is a terrible situation to put a young kid in, especially if you feel he's more of a project.
dumbest shit i have EVER heard. not preparing him to play?!?! he is a third rounder, not a UDFA. the kid should always be ready to play, one injury and poor QB play and your third stringer could be seeing action. we are 2-10....who cares if he isnt ready....
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Webb was not supposed to play at all this season. People keep forgetting that. The coaches were not preparing him to play this year. Talks of him playing only started a couple weeks ago.
It's like people just assume there's no learning curve at all for rookie QB's. Webb was thought to be a project from the day we drafted him. No one had him pegged as a guy who could just step right in and play. But now all of a sudden, several fans think he can.
This is a terrible situation to put a young kid in, especially if you feel he's more of a project.
dumbest shit i have EVER heard. not preparing him to play?!?! he is a third rounder, not a UDFA. the kid should always be ready to play, one injury and poor QB play and your third stringer could be seeing action. we are 2-10....who cares if he isnt ready....
"Who cares if he isn't ready" is a far more ridiculous statement than anything in my post.
Again - if you actually paid any attention to what was said earlier in the year, the plan was for this to be a redshirt year for Webb. When he was drafted, the staff had no plans of playing him this season because we were supposed to be competitive.
The idea was that Smith would hopefully be able to hold serve if Eli had to miss a couple of games due to injury and that Webb would be inactive and learn what he could.
This isn't Madden. Some fans don't seem to understand that.
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In comment 13732502 arcarsenal said:
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Webb was not supposed to play at all this season. People keep forgetting that. The coaches were not preparing him to play this year. Talks of him playing only started a couple weeks ago.
It's like people just assume there's no learning curve at all for rookie QB's. Webb was thought to be a project from the day we drafted him. No one had him pegged as a guy who could just step right in and play. But now all of a sudden, several fans think he can.
This is a terrible situation to put a young kid in, especially if you feel he's more of a project.
dumbest shit i have EVER heard. not preparing him to play?!?! he is a third rounder, not a UDFA. the kid should always be ready to play, one injury and poor QB play and your third stringer could be seeing action. we are 2-10....who cares if he isnt ready....
"Who cares if he isn't ready" is a far more ridiculous statement than anything in my post.
Again - if you actually paid any attention to what was said earlier in the year, the plan was for this to be a redshirt year for Webb. When he was drafted, the staff had no plans of playing him this season because we were supposed to be competitive.
The idea was that Smith would hopefully be able to hold serve if Eli had to miss a couple of games due to injury and that Webb would be inactive and learn what he could.
This isn't Madden. Some fans don't seem to understand that.
arc, the problem I have with that is Mara apparently disagrees. And as the President of the team, I suspect Mara has a pretty good idea of who Webb is... why he was drafted... what he needs to be able to play ... and why...
And Mara is the one who told us publicly it was his decision to have the other QBs play. So, the President of the team expected to see him this year. And I think the President of the team has a pretty damn good idea of what is possible and isn't.
When he approached Reese/McAdoo, his idea was to work Webb into games later in the year if possible - but McAdoo turned it into something different.
Mara doesn't evaluate Webb on a weekly basis - he really has no idea how close he is to being ready to play. He's not a scout, he's not a coach, he's simply the owner.
When he approached Reese/McAdoo, his idea was to work Webb into games later in the year if possible - but McAdoo turned it into something different.
Mara doesn't evaluate Webb on a weekly basis - he really has no idea how close he is to being ready to play. He's not a scout, he's not a coach, he's simply the owner.
arc, I believe you are greatly minimizing what Mara knows. Even ignoring what I believe to be his over-involvement in football operations, at a minimum I think it is safe to say he's a pretty big fan of the NY Giants. The difference between Mara and me? I come to BBI to ask my questions. Mara goes (went) to Reese. Again, ignoring his job duties as President, I would be shocked if Mara - as a fan and owner - did not have a very detailed evaluation of every player before:
Free agency.
Again before the draft.
Again before final cuts.
I bet he gets reports during the week about the game plan. I mean - as a fan and owner - this is your toy - why wouldn't you?
And remember - Mara told us he told Reese he wanted Webb to play when games got out of control. We know Reese didn't tell him that was a bad idea or not possible. Indeed, we know that was the intended plan after Mara talked to Reese.
So - the idea that Webb could't get ready to play just doesn't hold water. Mara, after talking to Reese, clearly expected it to happen.
When Webb was drafted, there was no plan for him to play this year. He was taken in the 3rd round and most of what was said at that time was that he was a QB who was raw and would need some work.
All indications were that this would be a redshirt year for him. They played preseason that way - he saw very little time. Josh Johnson and Geno got most of the time behind Eli.
The team was supposed to compete this year, and thus, the coaches were not priming Webb to play. It wasn't until a few weeks ago that we got to a point where Mara suggested working the young guys into games if things got out of hand.
It would have been much different if this was not supposed to be a good team and we were planning to get Webb involved from the start.
For a guy like him, you can't just flip the script on a dime and get him ready to play within 2-3 weeks.
This is a bad situation to put a rookie QB into. it's one thing if it's a top 5 pick and a guy who is more NFL ready - but Webb wasn't thought to be a guy who was ready to play right out of college.
Above all - I'm not sure how much people think Webb playing is going to change anything. Would it prevent anyone from drafting a QB next year? For me, it wouldn't. If he looked really bad, would you give up on him? I wouldn't.
And if he was just.. ."eh".. then what? Would it change how you approached anything for next year?
Some tape and game experience would be cool - and I still tihnk he may see some if we wind up on the wrong side of a blowout this year. But there's no advantage to forcing him into games if he's not prepared to play yet. You actually can hurt a player's development by doing that.
But I do believe games at the end of "lost seasons" should be used to provide players with valuable game experience they otherwise wouldn't have the opportunity to get.
Now, if for some reason that doesn't make sense for a particular player, then so be it. But that's what I don't understand here. Clearly Jerry Reese believed 2 weeks ago that Webb was ready to play. What changed in two weeks to make him suddenly not ready?
And we know Reese believed he was ready - because Mara told us he [Mara] talked to Reese about it - and Reese clearly didn't tell Mara it was a bad idea. So Reese was on board just two weeks ago.
That's the part of all this that I just don't understand.
...F&#@ happens with Eli anymore -- starter, replacement, bench jockey.
Eli is our past.
Got that?
At #2 Baker Mayfield is our future.
Got that?
I know Webb didn't learn a fucking thing...
...F&#@ happens with Eli anymore -- starter, replacement, bench jockey.
Eli is our past.
Got that?
At #2 Baker Mayfield is our future.
Got that?
You’re wrong, got that?
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...F&#@ happens with Eli anymore -- starter, replacement, bench jockey.
Eli is our past.
Got that?
At #2 Baker Mayfield is our future.
Got that?
You’re wrong, got that?
So... would you prefer my substituting the name "Josh Rosen", or "Sam Darnold" or "Lamar Jackson" or some other QB in the Draft.
Or... are you saying we should just crank up Eli once again and trot him out as the starter for 2018 and 2019?
What is your preference?
I know Webb didn't learn a fucking thing...
If Webb was the guy who led us to 10 points, how much do you think that would change things?
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In comment 13733687 M.S. said:
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...F&#@ happens with Eli anymore -- starter, replacement, bench jockey.
Eli is our past.
Got that?
At #2 Baker Mayfield is our future.
Got that?
You’re wrong, got that?
So... would you prefer my substituting the name "Josh Rosen", or "Sam Darnold" or "Lamar Jackson" or some other QB in the Draft.
Or... are you saying we should just crank up Eli once again and trot him out as the starter for 2018 and 2019?
What is your preference?
The Giants will almost certainly draft a QB with their first pick. I'd be shocked if they didn't.
That does not mean Manning doesn't start every game in 2018. Two totally different subjects/issues.
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In comment 13733730 BigBlue4You09 said:
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In comment 13733687 M.S. said:
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...F&#@ happens with Eli anymore -- starter, replacement, bench jockey.
Eli is our past.
Got that?
At #2 Baker Mayfield is our future.
Got that?
You’re wrong, got that?
So... would you prefer my substituting the name "Josh Rosen", or "Sam Darnold" or "Lamar Jackson" or some other QB in the Draft.
Or... are you saying we should just crank up Eli once again and trot him out as the starter for 2018 and 2019?
What is your preference?
The Giants will almost certainly draft a QB with their first pick. I'd be shocked if they didn't.
That does not mean Manning doesn't start every game in 2018. Two totally different subjects/issues.
Ironically, Eli would probably perform better in 2018 if we were picking, say, #6-#10 and picked up that unbelievable OG from Notre Dame, Quenton Nelson, then when we actually pick a QB with the second overall pick in the Draft.
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Hope we learned a lot from this loss.
I know Webb didn't learn a fucking thing...
If Webb was the guy who led us to 10 points, how much do you think that would change things?
More than today did for certain. His development as a QB is the only thing that matters for this roster right now...
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In comment 13733720 Jimmy Googs said:
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Hope we learned a lot from this loss.
I know Webb didn't learn a fucking thing...
If Webb was the guy who led us to 10 points, how much do you think that would change things?
More than today did for certain. His development as a QB is the only thing that matters for this roster right now...
They're almost certainly drafting a QB regardless. And that's going to be a top 5 pick. Probably top 3. The development of that QB is going to take precedence.
If Webb came in and put up 10 points today, would you suddenly feel like a guy we draft in the 1st round next year should take back seat to him?
Unless you think Webb is going to prevent the Giants from drafting a QB in April, I'm not sure what the big deal is.
They're almost certainly drafting a QB regardless. And that's going to be a top 5 pick. Probably top 3. The development of that QB is going to take precedence.
If Webb came in and put up 10 points today, would you suddenly feel like a guy we draft in the 1st round next year should take back seat to him?
Unless you think Webb is going to prevent the Giants from drafting a QB in April, I'm not sure what the big deal is.
I think the issue is in the 1% chance that Webb came in and looked great, the org. might not feel the need to trade heaven and earth to move up to get a QB. They might be more willing to let the chips fall where they may in the draft. Pretty much everyone would be expecting very little from Webb (and not really holding it against him if they saw that), but I do think we need to put him out there for at least 2 games. It's due diligence more than anything.
They're almost certainly drafting a QB regardless. And that's going to be a top 5 pick. Probably top 3. The development of that QB is going to take precedence.
If Webb came in and put up 10 points today, would you suddenly feel like a guy we draft in the 1st round next year should take back seat to him?
Unless you think Webb is going to prevent the Giants from drafting a QB in April, I'm not sure what the big deal is.
Not the question at hand. Playing Eli absolutely has no value. Playing Webb has value.
Even using your rational, if that high draft pick went down in game next year, wouldn't you have rather had Webb finished this season?
Playing Webb and beginning his development is better for the Giants in EVERY SINGLE SCENARIO GOING FORWARD. Its indisputable...
Webb should certainly play. Who cares if he's not completely ready. He needs to see game action against regular speed. What are we worried about? Not covering the spread? Being further embarrassed? Trying to knock a team out of the playoffs?
Sorry, but all of that - ad whatever excuse can be conjured up is bullsh-t. I have no interest in Eli and his old lounge act. Let's get a top 1 or 3 picked wrapped up and see some of the younger horses in the stable...
I would begin and end with we lose...which seems to be the case anyway.
If a guy needs to be benched, bench him. Regardless of who it is.
For the memory challenged, we are 2-11. So whatever you think can possibly go wrong, already has.
Give Webb a vanilla game plan and run him out there. Are you Webb's dad and you're afraid he might get hurt?
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Putting someone unprepared out there just to satisfy a curiosity?
For the memory challenged, we are 2-11. So whatever you think can possibly go wrong, already has.
Give Webb a vanilla game plan and run him out there. Are you Webb's dad and you're afraid he might get hurt?
The record is irrelevant - it's about Webb.
I can't sit here and say I know one way or another that he's ready to play or he isn't - but what I can say is that if he isn't, he shouldn't play. There's no benefit to throwing a green rookie out onto the field with a poor line and a lack of weapons.
I do think Webb is going to get some action before all is said and done. And that's fine. But I'm not in a rush to throw him into the fire if he's underprepared. It doesn't benefit him to do that.
People talk about playing Eli just to placate fans and how they think that's a poor approach.. well, playing Webb for the same reason is just as poor.
I also think people are overstating the impact of getting Webb PT at this point. It's not going to change much one way or another. My guess is he'd flash some pluses and also make some mistakes. I doubt he'd be so good or so bad that he'd alter the Giants' plans in either direction.
Didn't he say Eli would continue starting "unless something crazy happens" ?
You want to argue...what is more important to do?
You want to argue...what is more important to do?
I agree. The worst case scenario where Webb isn't ready and plays horribly (or stunts his growth? - not sure exactly what bad happens to him), we lose the games and ensure we can get a QB who will be able to come in at a point in time where winning is a priority and a possibility.
The worst possible scenario is Eli comes in and continues his mediocre play and we win. We get not gauge on our future and we lose draft value.
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Putting someone unprepared out there just to satisfy a curiosity?
For the memory challenged, we are 2-11. So whatever you think can possibly go wrong, already has.
Give Webb a vanilla game plan and run him out there. Are you Webb's dad and you're afraid he might get hurt?
Yeah, putting a player out there that isn't prepared in an already poor situation is one way to get him hurt. It's not fun and games for the kid to get his head knocked off so you can "see what he has" when he's clearly not even convinced the team he can handle it.
It's clown show unprofessional nonsense in a year where the team had already done enough of that for one season. There's no good argument for it except the false positive of "learning" with a horrible offensive line and replacement WRs that lead the league in drops. It would be a different story if he had practiced as a backup and was part of the equation the whole year.
People like to point to Eli playing as a rookie but skip over the fact he would never have played if Warner wasn't coughing up the football left and right and still playing like he had a concussion from the previous season.
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In comment 13734002 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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Putting someone unprepared out there just to satisfy a curiosity?
For the memory challenged, we are 2-11. So whatever you think can possibly go wrong, already has.
Give Webb a vanilla game plan and run him out there. Are you Webb's dad and you're afraid he might get hurt?
Yeah, putting a player out there that isn't prepared in an already poor situation is one way to get him hurt. It's not fun and games for the kid to get his head knocked off so you can "see what he has" when he's clearly not even convinced the team he can handle it.
It's clown show unprofessional nonsense in a year where the team had already done enough of that for one season. There's no good argument for it except the false positive of "learning" with a horrible offensive line and replacement WRs that lead the league in drops. It would be a different story if he had practiced as a backup and was part of the equation the whole year.
People like to point to Eli playing as a rookie but skip over the fact he would never have played if Warner wasn't coughing up the football left and right and still playing like he had a concussion from the previous season.
"Yeah, putting a player out there that isn't prepared in an already poor situation is one way to get him hurt."
If he plays - as Mara said he requested almost a month ago without any push back from Reese - then it's because he's prepared, right?
Yeah, putting a player out there that isn't prepared in an already poor situation is one way to get him hurt. It's not fun and games for the kid to get his head knocked off so you can "see what he has" when he's clearly not even convinced the team he can handle it.
Its like you fell down and hit your head on the ground...seriously
Q: As a rookie quarterback, can you really know that you are ready without getting into a game?
A: Yeah, I mean, I think you always think you’re ready, you think you kind of have the answers until you’re out there and you’ve got to make some decisions. Hey, are you going to make this check; hey, I think this blitz is coming; but are you sure and do you know how to pick it up, or do you know how to have answers, or what your assignments are, or what you’re going to do under a certain situation, where are your check downs? So, there’s a lot to learn and honestly I believe the best way to do it is through experience and to get out there. Make the mistakes, see it all and try to just find ways to get completions and move the ball.
Q: Looking back at your struggles during your rookie season, do you think that you needed every one of those struggles to get you ready?
A: Yeah, I think that’s part of it. There is a growing pain to playing quarterback in this league and that’s just part of it. Obviously, some guys have come in and played well right away, but they’re usually surrounded by a talented team. But I think every game you play, you learn from it, and still at this age.
Let’s start developing this guy since the franchise is better for it no matter what they do in the draft next season.
Sure he will be nervous and make plenty of mistakes. Good...something to learn from and build on.
He’s not splitting the atom out there chuckleheads. He will be doing what he has been doing for years and bring groomed for now.
Get on board...
That said, doubt we see him this year, best chance probably for a little mop up duty week 17.
Dude, I'm not trying to be an asshole, but look at the facts!
There are only three games left in the season, he hasn't dressed once, and that continues this week. He hasn't even been able to run as a 2 in practice. All he's doing are "drills" to help him learn to "practice" as a 2.
That's straight from the horses mouth yesterday.
Think about it. He's done as a future starter here because we are picking our future starter. Year two he's going to be, at best the #2 for a nanosecond. They are either going to bring Eli back or punt the year and find a cheaper vert journeyman who, while not as good as Eli, can act as a bridge and mentor for the true future #1. Maybe Webb can hold off that A#1 to be the backup, maybe not. Certainly if the journeyman goes down for more than a game or two, they are going to elevate the #1 pick and begin the Eli/Warner experience. They likely would also sign another journeyman to back him up. Year 3, the #1 pick begins his tenure. Webb might could be the backup but I would bet they still bring in a more experience guy to be the #2. Webb also is starting to get close to the area where they begin thinking they need to give him a new contract, but they've got no real view on him. Year 4, he's standing on the sideline hoping that the team we're playing has an opening on their roster the next year.
Impressive...
Impressive...
I don't get the kid gloves ready/not ready conversation. These are all men, put them out there and see if they swim.