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Eli was bad today?

Britt in VA : 12/10/2017 4:08 pm
For that crowd, I ask.... What plays did he leave on the field? What plays did he not make that changed the game?

Yeah, he threw 2 INT's, after we were down two, then three, scores... But when the game was still undecided?

What plays did he not make/leave on the field?
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RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: First Drive of the Game:  
Jimmy Googs : 12/11/2017 11:15 am : link
In comment 13735234 Beezer said:
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In comment 13735223 Jimmy Googs said:


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In comment 13735184 Beezer said:


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But holy hell. Three straight running plays is an indication that Eli's lost it? Damn ... that's nutty.



Did you think you were watching the last 2 minutes of tie-game in the SuperBowl?

your nutty...



Do you not factor in ANY of the existing personnel?

You (and others) act as though personnel in these games makes zero difference.


So our first round pick match-up nightmare Tight End is not worthy of getting a chance? How about our second round pick slot guy from the year before? How about a throw to the back of the end zone that if our guy doesnt catch it nobody does?

How about trying to make a play...
RE: RE: As I've laid out a trillion times, it feels like, in the past couple  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 11:16 am : link
In comment 13735360 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13735228 Britt in VA said:


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of weeks...

-A new coach likely would be able to hedge their bets by having a vet like Eli. That way, if you start winning, you're in position to actually make a run at something, but if you're losing, you buy yourself more time by putting it on Manning and then pulling him for the rookies, which would need more time to grow.

-This is a pretty common protocol for transition in the NFL.


The one thing I think you're really underestimating is how much the media/fan hysterics of a couple weeks ago might affect the thinking of the new coach.

I think it would only be natural if the new coach was hesitant to invite a repeat of that same situation if/when the time came to transition to the young QB midseason. And if you're being honest with yourself, you know that a midseason switch would always be on the radar just like it was for Warner with Eli.

It might not be the top consideration, but it's not insignificant either.


Actually I do think it would be different. There was zero reason to bench Eli last week and start Geno. None. It was a desperate, final act of two desperate men to save their jobs by once and for all dumping the failure at Eli's feet.

That's what the reaction was about.

They actually did the new regime a favor. Now the streak is over, and if a QB is drafted round one, you have a reason to bench Manning that fans can accept, if it comes to that.
RE: RE: First Drive of the Game:  
Jimmy Googs : 12/11/2017 11:19 am : link
In comment 13735257 PatersonPlank said:
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In comment 13735058 Jimmy Googs said:


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after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.

Perfect example of why its over for him...




I think a more realistic view of this is that the Cowboys D set up in a formation that gave the Giants the run rather than pass. Eli, and Sullivan, saw this and checked into runs. Dallas was betting that we couldn't run the ball against them in a base setup, and they were correct. IMO this is more an indictment of our running game (line and backs) than anything to do with Eli.


So its nearly Christmas and we were 2-10 and decided to give the run 3 straight chances (4 if you count the penalty) versus putting the ball in the hands of Eli who can try and make a play?

the answer is simply...nobody believes he can and probably not even himself otherwise someone would say...lets give him a chance.
RE: RE: RE: It doesn't matter what I, or anybody else thinks about Webb.....  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 12/11/2017 11:22 am : link
In comment 13735306 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13735302 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


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In comment 13735233 Britt in VA said:


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there is a reason he's not active. What that reason is, I don't know.

But all of the information that is out there, that we are privy to, is that the people that make decisions don't think he's ready.

If that's maddening to you, well... Sorry? I don't know what to say. But that's what it's looking like right now, that he's not ready.

And it doesn't matter what you, me, the media, or anybody else except the people in the building that have the power to make the decision, thinks.



He got his first reps as a backup this past week, which was a short week for some reason (They started practice on Thursday I want to say). Give him at least 2 more weeks of reps as a backup, and I am sure he will dress and play in some games.



Give him at least two more weeks and then we'll see him dress and play in "some games"?

There's only three weeks left in the season.


This is what I was talking about, with you being an asshole. There is NO reason to act like a jerk.

The point being, they did not want to throw him to the Wolves with no preparation whatsoever.

As far as what he can gain from playing in our putrid offense, he can get to experience the speed of playing against an NFL team, and learn what it's like to process and make decisions when under that duress. Better he learns it sooner, rather then later.
RE: RE: RE: First Drive of the Game:  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 11:22 am : link
In comment 13735371 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 13735257 PatersonPlank said:


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In comment 13735058 Jimmy Googs said:


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after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.

Perfect example of why its over for him...




I think a more realistic view of this is that the Cowboys D set up in a formation that gave the Giants the run rather than pass. Eli, and Sullivan, saw this and checked into runs. Dallas was betting that we couldn't run the ball against them in a base setup, and they were correct. IMO this is more an indictment of our running game (line and backs) than anything to do with Eli.



So its nearly Christmas and we were 2-10 and decided to give the run 3 straight chances (4 if you count the penalty) versus putting the ball in the hands of Eli who can try and make a play?

the answer is simply...nobody believes he can and probably not even himself otherwise someone would say...lets give him a chance.


It was 1st and 20 after a 16 play drive, in a 3-0 game in which we are overmatched.

It's pretty common to go conservative and take the points, there. I see it week in, week out in the NFL, even with rosters much better than ours.
RE: RE: RE: RE: It doesn't matter what I, or anybody else thinks about Webb.....  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 11:23 am : link
In comment 13735373 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
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In comment 13735306 Britt in VA said:


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In comment 13735302 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


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In comment 13735233 Britt in VA said:


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there is a reason he's not active. What that reason is, I don't know.

But all of the information that is out there, that we are privy to, is that the people that make decisions don't think he's ready.

If that's maddening to you, well... Sorry? I don't know what to say. But that's what it's looking like right now, that he's not ready.

And it doesn't matter what you, me, the media, or anybody else except the people in the building that have the power to make the decision, thinks.



He got his first reps as a backup this past week, which was a short week for some reason (They started practice on Thursday I want to say). Give him at least 2 more weeks of reps as a backup, and I am sure he will dress and play in some games.



Give him at least two more weeks and then we'll see him dress and play in "some games"?

There's only three weeks left in the season.



This is what I was talking about, with you being an asshole. There is NO reason to act like a jerk.

The point being, they did not want to throw him to the Wolves with no preparation whatsoever.

As far as what he can gain from playing in our putrid offense, he can get to experience the speed of playing against an NFL team, and learn what it's like to process and make decisions when under that duress. Better he learns it sooner, rather then later.


Hahah, geez... How is stating the obvious being an asshole?
RE: RE: First Drive of the Game:  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/11/2017 11:27 am : link
In comment 13735257 PatersonPlank said:
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In comment 13735058 Jimmy Googs said:


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after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.

Perfect example of why its over for him...




I think a more realistic view of this is that the Cowboys D set up in a formation that gave the Giants the run rather than pass. Eli, and Sullivan, saw this and checked into runs. Dallas was betting that we couldn't run the ball against them in a base setup, and they were correct. IMO this is more an indictment of our running game (line and backs) than anything to do with Eli.

You can't just always take what the opponent gives you - sometimes you have to impose your will on them. Of course they're going to give the Giants the run on 1st and 20! That's not necessarily an indictment of the Giants running game. Lombardi's Packers wouldn't consistently convert from a starting point of 1st and 20.

And I don't mean for that to be entirely on Eli, either, but the whole "take what the defense gives you" no matter what the circumstance is, is frustrating. We've seen it a number of times late in games as well, when the Giants have a chance to score to get back into the game, but continue to dink and dunk the clock away.

To the extent, however, that we know that Eli has historically been a gunslinger and that we believe he still has carte blanche when it comes to audibles, it's at least a little bit on him that he's become so much more conservative himself. It's not like he's never made a play in his career while throwing into coverage.
RE: I'm not crapping on anyone for wanting to see Webb play  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/11/2017 11:30 am : link
In comment 13735259 Bill L said:
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but I am saying that the truth is, there's as little to gain from that as playing Eli. Whether it's Webb, Smith, or eve3n Eli for that matter, at this point it is wanting them to play just to see them play. Neither Smith nor Webb has a future here. Webb would have had a future if we had made the playoffs or even just finished outside the playoffs. But we didn't, so he he doesn't. The only one with a future actually, is Eli and that's iffy at this point. His future is as a mentor or potential bridge to the franchise guy we are getting. And, we already know what Eli is, so there's no real need to evaluate him. For future purposes, the QB is the least important position to look at this season. YEt, it's the most talked about.

You sure about that? Webb is an afterthought because of the "franchise guy we are getting"?

RE: RE: RE: First Drive of the Game:  
PatersonPlank : 12/11/2017 11:30 am : link
In comment 13735386 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13735257 PatersonPlank said:


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In comment 13735058 Jimmy Googs said:


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after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.

Perfect example of why its over for him...




I think a more realistic view of this is that the Cowboys D set up in a formation that gave the Giants the run rather than pass. Eli, and Sullivan, saw this and checked into runs. Dallas was betting that we couldn't run the ball against them in a base setup, and they were correct. IMO this is more an indictment of our running game (line and backs) than anything to do with Eli.


You can't just always take what the opponent gives you - sometimes you have to impose your will on them. Of course they're going to give the Giants the run on 1st and 20! That's not necessarily an indictment of the Giants running game. Lombardi's Packers wouldn't consistently convert from a starting point of 1st and 20.

And I don't mean for that to be entirely on Eli, either, but the whole "take what the defense gives you" no matter what the circumstance is, is frustrating. We've seen it a number of times late in games as well, when the Giants have a chance to score to get back into the game, but continue to dink and dunk the clock away.

To the extent, however, that we know that Eli has historically been a gunslinger and that we believe he still has carte blanche when it comes to audibles, it's at least a little bit on him that he's become so much more conservative himself. It's not like he's never made a play in his career while throwing into coverage.


Look I'm not stating anything as fact, I'm just pointing out that there are other reasons here. I think, in my opinion not fact, that at that stage of the game, with long yardage to go and the D playing it as such, that the Giants decided it was more important to take the points. A lot of teams have also made that decision. I think it had more to do with the game situation than Eli.
.....  
Route 9 : 12/11/2017 11:43 am : link
Same old shit.

1. Britt talks well about Eli again
2. Gatorade Jimmy Googs and others debate the same thing over and over... again
3. Arc comes in as the middle ground and nails everything, right on the head...again

Can this season just end already?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: First Drive of the Game:  
Beezer : 12/11/2017 11:58 am : link
In comment 13735362 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 13735234 Beezer said:


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In comment 13735223 Jimmy Googs said:


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In comment 13735184 Beezer said:


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But holy hell. Three straight running plays is an indication that Eli's lost it? Damn ... that's nutty.



Did you think you were watching the last 2 minutes of tie-game in the SuperBowl?

your nutty...



Do you not factor in ANY of the existing personnel?

You (and others) act as though personnel in these games makes zero difference.



So our first round pick match-up nightmare Tight End is not worthy of getting a chance? How about our second round pick slot guy from the year before? How about a throw to the back of the end zone that if our guy doesnt catch it nobody does?

How about trying to make a play...


Yeah, I'm with you. Just not putting those decisions on Eli. Unless he's calling the plays in the huddle, and in that case, OK. I just did not think he was.
.....  
Route 9 : 12/11/2017 12:02 pm : link
Maybe I'm way off here, but why is everyone grilling Eli for the Ellison miss when he came right back on third down (after the penalty) and made the pass to Shepard when Eli got flushed to his left?

I mean sure, he missed Ellison but that was the opening drive to make it 3-3, they settled for a FG anyway. There were three Cowboy defenders right by Ellison at the 25. I highly doubt that's a walk in touchdown if he hits him right in the hand. Same drive, three points.

Shepard practically ran to the same spot where Ellison was missed, just a few plays later. The Giants were done in by another dumb ass offensive lineman penalty.
Agreed. Stop grilling Eli and the offense.  
Jimmy Googs : 12/11/2017 1:59 pm : link
10 points is not nothing and could have probably held up against a lot of teams. That is why its important to play for 3 the first chance you get into the redzone.

It sets the tone...

We were down 3 nothing, and just had a 16 play drive.....  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:01 pm : link
that was derailed by an offensive line penalty.

A lot of coaches would play conservative there. We see it every week.
It would be more demoralizing to throw a pick...  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:04 pm : link
or take a sack to put us out of field goal range, and come away with nothing after that long, and time consuming, of a drive. You gotta come away with points.

I say, they're 2-10 with nothing to lose, but that's not how they were thinking.
Just like I wouldn't have punted later in the half during one series..  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:05 pm : link
but it was a tight game, and they were conservative. It happens.
Eli is not worth his salary  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 2:12 pm : link
I do this from stats. Look at his last 5 years. That is not worth 20 million a year. It is Josh McNown. I would rather have a locked up rookie contract at QB than Eli because there is upside. Eli will get worse, he has gotten worse. Yay, he still has a live arm. Most older QBs do. I can still spin it 60 yards and I'm old and fat. He has always thrown a difficult ball to catch and he is less accurate now. Time to move on.
Yesterday.  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 2:17 pm : link
Eli had the fans, the emotions, the team was trying. They kept it close for as long as they could. He needed ELEVATE his play and those around him. That is what aging QBs need to do when playing past 35. He doesn't have that, he would needs the perfect situation. That is what Cosell said, we will not have the perfect situation in large part because Eli is not worth his contract.
Disagree. What teams do every week is still give an effort  
Jimmy Googs : 12/11/2017 2:17 pm : link
to score or be more aggressive on first and second down, and then maybe more conservative on 3rd. With a veteran like Eli you have to presume he can get rid of the ball not to take a sack.

But give it a shot. Otherwise I think Webb can hand off 3 straight times too...
I don't get the contract talk.  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:19 pm : link
Eli's contract did not prevent them from spending 200 million in free agency last offseason.

As far as "elevating" the players around him, some of these guys weren't even on rosters 8 weeks ago. They'll go back to out of the NFL after this offseason. I think you're expecting too much.

Even Engram gets plenty of targets and catches. He also has a lot of drops.

That's pretty much the only reliable receiver he consistently has. And before you mention Sheppard, I said consistently.
Maybe they don't think Webb...  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:20 pm : link
can "hand it off three straight times" since he hasn't taken many snaps from center.
RE: I don't get the contract talk.  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 2:21 pm : link
In comment 13735832 Britt in VA said:
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Eli's contract did not prevent them from spending 200 million in free agency last offseason.

As far as "elevating" the players around him, some of these guys weren't even on rosters 8 weeks ago. They'll go back to out of the NFL after this offseason. I think you're expecting too much.

Even Engram gets plenty of targets and catches. He also has a lot of drops.

That's pretty much the only reliable receiver he consistently has. And before you mention Sheppard, I said consistently.
And before those players got injured? Starting from 2013 through this year, Eli is worth his contract...go look at the stats. Thats 5 years worth.
Compaer it to McNown this year  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 2:24 pm : link
Take McNown stats using the terrible players on NYJ this year and push them out for 5 years and compare that to Eli's last 5 years..Not good
RE: RE: I'm not crapping on anyone for wanting to see Webb play  
Bill L : 12/11/2017 2:29 pm : link
In comment 13735391 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13735259 Bill L said:


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but I am saying that the truth is, there's as little to gain from that as playing Eli. Whether it's Webb, Smith, or eve3n Eli for that matter, at this point it is wanting them to play just to see them play. Neither Smith nor Webb has a future here. Webb would have had a future if we had made the playoffs or even just finished outside the playoffs. But we didn't, so he he doesn't. The only one with a future actually, is Eli and that's iffy at this point. His future is as a mentor or potential bridge to the franchise guy we are getting. And, we already know what Eli is, so there's no real need to evaluate him. For future purposes, the QB is the least important position to look at this season. YEt, it's the most talked about.


You sure about that? Webb is an afterthought because of the "franchise guy we are getting"?

I'm 100% sure. Exceptions don't change strategy.
RE: Maybe they don't think Webb...  
Jimmy Googs : 12/11/2017 2:32 pm : link
In comment 13735834 Britt in VA said:
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can "hand it off three straight times" since he hasn't taken many snaps from center.


kind of amazing he can simply get out of bed each day and make it to the stadium.

We really need to revamp the draft evaluation process and ask the students if they ever even played real football before...
RE: Compaer it to McNown this year  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:35 pm : link
In comment 13735845 Thegratefulhead said:
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Take McNown stats using the terrible players on NYJ this year and push them out for 5 years and compare that to Eli's last 5 years..Not good


In 2014 Eli was 6th in yards, and 6th in TD's in the NFL.

In 2015 Eli was 6th in yards and 3rd in TD's in the NFL.

He's had two bad years in an awful offense.

We scored 30 or more points 7 times in 2015, including 3 out of the last 4 games.

The offense changed a lot more than the player did, and the results everywhere reflect that.
RE: RE: Maybe they don't think Webb...  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:37 pm : link
In comment 13735871 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 13735834 Britt in VA said:


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can "hand it off three straight times" since he hasn't taken many snaps from center.



kind of amazing he can simply get out of bed each day and make it to the stadium.

We really need to revamp the draft evaluation process and ask the students if they ever even played real football before...


You need to direct this at the guys making the decisions, the professionals that are currently evaluating this and coming to the conclusion that he isn't ready, not me.
.....  
Route 9 : 12/11/2017 2:40 pm : link
Jimmy, I was just talking about that one play/drive in particular. Im not saying he achieved an all-star performance that carried the team to a victory. It wasnt that big of a mistake where he threw a pick 6 the other way , or even something inconsequential such as missing a wide open WR for a TD like he did vs the Rams. Youre right, 10 points is 10 points.

Hes my favorite Giant of all-time. I didnt get to see much of LT. I didnt get to see 1990 or really remember it, but I will acknowledge that he is getting older and he is starting to decline, not the same guy he was in 2011 of course.

I honestly think he has taken so much abuse and way too many hits over the course of his career thats why its starting to show, mixed with age. He played in 210 straight games behind James Brewer, Will Beatty, and even Pughs no-shows against Philly.

I don't think it was ever in the itinerary for Eli to be great this season, was it? We were worried about him the most going into this season here on BBI. We were talking Super Bowl. We just needed "enough" from him because we thought this defense would return to its 2016 form and offensively Eli needed to be a pro manager, reading defenses and OBJ kind of do the rest. Come weeks 1 and 2 against a mediocre Dallas team, this offense with Beckham not 100% looked like well, a team that was destined for 2-11.

That plan from 2016 didnt translate over. Those two games to open the season were trash. The play calling, the clueless coaching, the bad blocking, drops, Marshall was essentially worthless.

Hes just playing for the sake of playing, I get it. But him missing a wide open guy and then forgetting about it and making a play like the one he made to Shepard on the very next one, thats always kind of been his thing. The upside is the Giants are going to be getting a good draft pick and a shiny new QB.

2017 we were fucked from the start with the OBJ injury vs the Browns
Not worth it  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 2:40 pm : link
5 years of ELi

1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int

If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5

1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int

Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.

Just to follow up on the Josh McCown comparison....  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:44 pm : link
in 2014, when Eli was 6th in yards and 6th in TD's, McCown was 28th in yards and 30th in TD's.

in 2015, when Eli was 6th in yards and 3rd in TD's, McCown was 28th in yards and 30th in TD's.

Kind of silly, no?
RE: Not worth it  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:46 pm : link
In comment 13735893 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
5 years of ELi

1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int

If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5

1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int

Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.


That's not how stats in football work. You can't combine five seasons and compare them.

Each season is it's own entity.
RE: Not worth it  
Dave in Hoboken : 12/11/2017 2:46 pm : link
In comment 13735893 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
5 years of ELi

1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int

If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5

1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int

Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.


McCown is done for the year now, but yeah, he had a much better year than anyone thought he would with no talent around him on the Jets. Pretty crazy.
You're also giving him stats that he didn't get....  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:47 pm : link
you're essentially assuming them. That doesn't work either.

If you think any of that is relevant, I don't know what to tell you.
RE: RE: RE: I'm not crapping on anyone for wanting to see Webb play  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/11/2017 2:48 pm : link
In comment 13735862 Bill L said:
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In comment 13735391 Gatorade Dunk said:


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In comment 13735259 Bill L said:


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but I am saying that the truth is, there's as little to gain from that as playing Eli. Whether it's Webb, Smith, or eve3n Eli for that matter, at this point it is wanting them to play just to see them play. Neither Smith nor Webb has a future here. Webb would have had a future if we had made the playoffs or even just finished outside the playoffs. But we didn't, so he he doesn't. The only one with a future actually, is Eli and that's iffy at this point. His future is as a mentor or potential bridge to the franchise guy we are getting. And, we already know what Eli is, so there's no real need to evaluate him. For future purposes, the QB is the least important position to look at this season. YEt, it's the most talked about.


You sure about that? Webb is an afterthought because of the "franchise guy we are getting"?



I'm 100% sure. Exceptions don't change strategy.

Oh, I agree with you that you can't base your strategy around exceptions - I'm not denying that. But you're the one declaring that Webb has no future with this team and I'm just saying that there's no way for you to know that. It's entirely possible that the supposed franchise QB the Giants select could wash out, and it's also possible that they both end up being very good with Webb being even better than whoever they draft.

I'm not disagreeing with the premise of the Giants selecting a QB at the top of the draft, just the certainty that anyone can say for sure that Webb has no future with the team. And I used Cousins as the example because he was drafted three rounds behind Griffin (in the same draft) with the idea that Griffin would be the franchise QB and Cousins would be likely be just a backup or trade bait. Years later, Griffin is currently out of the league while Cousins has thrown for more than twice as many TDs as RG3 over their careers and is poised to cash in with a huge contract.

There just isn't a way for you (or anyone else) to be certain that Webb has no future with the team.
Webb has no future with the team  
Jimmy Googs : 12/11/2017 2:51 pm : link
until he stops being ignored.

Stay the course, the offense will come around some day...
RE: RE: Not worth it  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 2:52 pm : link
In comment 13735905 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13735893 Thegratefulhead said:


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5 years of ELi

1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int

If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5

1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int

Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.




That's not how stats in football work. You can't combine five seasons and compare them.

Each season is it's own entity.


I'm giving you a season at the Jets with terrible talent around him for an older QB and making it 5 years. I gave Eli Stats for the last 5 years starting at 2013. Eli last 5 years is journeyman stats, you cannot spin or deflect your way out.
RE: RE: RE: Not worth it  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:52 pm : link
In comment 13735918 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 13735905 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 13735893 Thegratefulhead said:


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5 years of ELi

1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int

If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5

1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int

Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.




That's not how stats in football work. You can't combine five seasons and compare them.

Each season is it's own entity.



I'm giving you a season at the Jets with terrible talent around him for an older QB and making it 5 years. I gave Eli Stats for the last 5 years starting at 2013. Eli last 5 years is journeyman stats, you cannot spin or deflect your way out.


Did 2014 and 2015 occur in the last five years?
Cutler  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 3:00 pm : link
Wanna compare Eli to Rivers last 5?

1833 2815 65.12% 21553 148 70
Let's break it down by year:  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 3:00 pm : link
2013:

Eli Manning: 14th in the NFL in yards, 21st in TD's
Josh McCown: 30th in the NFL in yards, 27th in TD's

2014:

Eli Manning: 6th in the NFL in yards, 6th in TD's
Josh McCown: 28th in the NFL in yards, 30th in TD's

2015:

Eli Manning: 6th in the NFL in yards, 3rd in TD's
Josh McCown: 30th in the NFL in yards, 30th in TD's

2016:

Eli Manning: 13th in the NFL in yards, 11th in TD's
Josh McCown: 34th in the NFL in yards, 35th in TD's

Are you really saying this is comparable?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Not worth it  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 3:03 pm : link
In comment 13735921 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13735918 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


In comment 13735905 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 13735893 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


5 years of ELi

1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int

If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5

1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int

Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.




That's not how stats in football work. You can't combine five seasons and compare them.

Each season is it's own entity.



I'm giving you a season at the Jets with terrible talent around him for an older QB and making it 5 years. I gave Eli Stats for the last 5 years starting at 2013. Eli last 5 years is journeyman stats, you cannot spin or deflect your way out.



Did 2014 and 2015 occur in the last five years?
You are reaching Britt...forget the comparison. Has Eli earned his money the last 5 years. Has it been 20 million a year production? Do you expect him to get better?
Yeah, forget it...  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 3:04 pm : link
because you're comparison is completely nuts. I see why you want to shift gears.
We're going round in circles, now, though....  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 3:05 pm : link
this thread has run it's course.

Nobody is changing anybody's mind. We'll just watch it play out and see what happens, then revisit later.
RE: Yeah, forget it...  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 3:08 pm : link
In comment 13735943 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
because you're comparison is completely nuts. I see why you want to shift gears.
Yeah, because it was the point I was trying to make. That Eli is not worth his money and you picked apart the comparison...fine it was never my point we both know it. He has put up journeyman stats for the last 5 years. Statistically speaking at 36/37 it is very unlikely to expect better performance, very likely he gets worse...regardless of how lively his arm is.
.  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 3:18 pm : link
Quote:
GiantsWFAN‏
@giantswfan
3m3 minutes ago

Spags said "probrably no differently" when asked about plans for Webb this week....(likely means he stays 3rd string) #giants
I think most sum it up correctly  
Dave in Hoboken : 12/11/2017 3:25 pm : link
when they say Eli isn't the solution going forward.
RE: Really only bad passes  
Carson53 : 12/11/2017 3:35 pm : link
In comment 13733634 section125 said:
Quote:
were the WR screen he threw too high and allowed the DB to make the play and the pass to Engram that should have been PI, Illegal Contact or Holding.

Other than that, I thought he was extremely accurate.
.

Yep, that pass to Ellison where nobody was within five yards
of the guy was extremely accurate in the first half.
The ball was five yards over his head too!
Guess you had stepped away from the tube huh?
RE: We're going round in circles, now, though....  
Route 9 : 12/11/2017 3:44 pm : link
In comment 13735949 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
this thread has run it's course.

Nobody is changing anybody's mind. We'll just watch it play out and see what happens, then revisit later.


.....
Route 9 : 11:43 am : link : reply
Same old shit.

1. Britt talks well about Eli again
2. Gatorade Jimmy Googs and others debate the same thing over and over... again
3. Arc comes in as the middle ground and nails everything, right on the head...again
Damn it  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 3:47 pm : link
Fuck yesterday, fuck one game. It was not any better than Geno fucking Smith. That's the Eli bar now. Are we better with Eli or Geno? Well if you just look at the last 2 games, they are the same(Geno might have been a stitch better with less practice and experience) You need to look at the last few years, not one game, when making a decision about Eli. You can reasonably expect him to get worse. It isn't worth his salary, end of story.
Well, if nothing else, there is enough internet ink on this subject...  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 3:49 pm : link
to revisit next season, whether Eli is here or somewhere else.

It's all archived right here on BBI.

All we can do is wait and see, now.
RE: Well, if nothing else, there is enough internet ink on this subject...  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 3:50 pm : link
In comment 13736076 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
to revisit next season, whether Eli is here or somewhere else.

It's all archived right here on BBI.

All we can do is wait and see, now.
agreed
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