For that crowd, I ask.... What plays did he leave on the field? What plays did he not make that changed the game?
Yeah, he threw 2 INT's, after we were down two, then three, scores... But when the game was still undecided?
What plays did he not make/leave on the field?
since he is so immobile he can't extend the plays EVERY
there were a couple of times where he let balls go when he felt phantom pressure
Other than that, I thought he was extremely accurate.
This was his one bad play. And I saw Ryan and Brees do similar errors on Thursday night. It happens. Of corse we need to find his replacement, but we dont need to put every fucking loss on him like the anti Eli crowd would love to do.
You think we scored 10 points because of Eli? You think another QB would have produced more with the same cast?
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That was pretty brutal.
This was his one bad play. And I saw Ryan and Brees do similar errors on Thursday night. It happens. Of corse we need to find his replacement, but we dont need to put every fucking loss on him like the anti Eli crowd would love to do.
I agree. But if the point is that Eli is somehow not part of our failures, you're living under a rock. We need to move on from Eli.
then when he throws downfield INT
...it doesn't matter anymore about Eli.
He's now our past.
At #2 Baker Mayfield is our future.
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Is there an argument?
You think we scored 10 points because of Eli? You think another QB would have produced more with the same cast?
Yes. I do.
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Is there an argument?
You think we scored 10 points because of Eli? You think another QB would have produced more with the same cast?
Geno who sucks led them to 17 on the road vs a better defense
Great example of lazy analysis
Honestly, Eli isn't very good right now but I'm not sure any QB in the league could make chicken salad from the chickenshit around him.
But overall - his WR's let him down more than anything. Some bad drops. Shep, Lewis.. couple of passes that should have been caught.
Look, to me - I think Eli is still capable if you can protect him and he's got Beckham back and you can run the ball.
He did miss a couple today - but his WR's also let him down. The first INT wasn't really his fault, either.
I still think you've got to take QB in this draft - but if starting Eli down the stretch here repairs that bridge and keeps the door open for him to be a part of our plans next year, it's probably worth it.
I think there were 3 major things that led to the disaster that this season was.. and I've said this many times...
1) McAdoo was a terrible playcaller
2) The staff failed to recognize the best OL configuration in camp
3) Injuries... Beckham especially.
THIS
while the game was tied in the 2nd half we had two 3rd down drops and a non PI call that stalled drives .
Cowboys sat back in coverage then entire game there was
few times when Eli could throw downfield .
The WR's rarely get separation as for the defense there
undermanned and they have Zero pass rush .
Can't wait untill they burn MacHandleys Denny's menu and
get back to Giants football strong run game with play action that gets on top early and allows the defense to tee
off and take chances early .
The two INTs were in garbage time and he did miss on some easy throws.
I would say he was very average.
Overall, he was better today than a lot of games this season. Not great, but very good. The drops were brutal.
But the criticisms of him that some of you guys invent are absurd.
a game where they was a media circus and Geno had not played a snap all year
Even with two fumbles .. Geno played better than Eli..
Run game wasn't bad and hasn't been bad - so there's that. But the other elements Eli needs to succeed just aren't there now.
Bottom line is that this team just isn't scoring points.
Webb deserves a shot to start a few games.
we can evaluate Eli because last week Geno played
with same players
Geno thew the ball downfield much more than Eli
Geno extended plays . he got the ball to our play makers better
and scored more points than Eli
please stop making excuses .. Eli is not good these days..
this is perfectly said...
Other QBs arnt playing with practice squad receivers, with most of their best starting players out for the season, with a defense thats falling apart.. I swear people bitch about what Eli gets paid but have you seen how many drops, and fumbles there was today? Pretty sure Eli didnt throw it to himself and fuck up. Im not saying he isnt without faults but jesus he played a solid game, and 95% of the issues today wasnt on him. But hey im sure another QB coulda came in a wished the balls in the endzone with the same players we got now.
Giants fans would have crucified Geno if he put up the same performance as Eli did today ..
it is just amazing how blinded Giants fans are about Eli ..
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We are paying out at the QB position compared to the production we are getting is a rip off and anyone who doesn't think so has there ELI BLINDERS on. Go look at other QBs that make the same. Time for ELI to take huge pay cut so we can protect him or move on.
Other QBs arnt playing with practice squad receivers, with most of their best starting players out for the season, with a defense thats falling apart.. I swear people bitch about what Eli gets paid but have you seen how many drops, and fumbles there was today? Pretty sure Eli didnt throw it to himself and fuck up. Im not saying he isnt without faults but jesus he played a solid game, and 95% of the issues today wasnt on him. But hey im sure another QB coulda came in a wished the balls in the endzone with the same players we got now.
Last year everyone was healthy and they couldn't score.
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Eli is difficult to evaluate right now
we can evaluate Eli because last week Geno played
with same players
Geno thew the ball downfield much more than Eli
Geno extended plays . he got the ball to our play makers better
and scored more points than Eli
please stop making excuses .. Eli is not good these days..
I'd love to see a list of QB's who are succeeding with an offensive line that doesn't pass protect well and has guys like Roger Lewis and Darius Powe playing on the outside.
Like I said - it's very hard to evaluate Eli right now. It's not excuse making. I still think they should draft their guy in April. But the next guy won't be a whole lot better if this is what he has to work with.
Does the team get better if you keep Geno, or some other JAG, and spend cut Eli savings on other players? or do you just spend the money and hold on to Eli one more year? Either way, the starting QB is not dragging the team to victory on his back.
With a top QB draft pick, would it be right to put Eli through that season long debacle clamoring for a change every time we lose)? It's easy to say 'keep Eli as a mentor', but the shit show of last week very well may be childs play compared to what we could see next year.
Eli is not elite (any more), nor is he washed up. The true debate is where in the middle he lies and whether he should be brought back.
If they hit on an offensive lineman early in the draft and add one more guy in FA, I think they can fix the line quickly.
They looked pretty good before Fluker and Pugh got hurt. Bring Fluker back.
Healthy Beckham makes a huge difference. Engram is the real deal. Ellison is good. Gallman can be a part of the future.
Proper management can have this offense playing well as soon as next year.
Sullivan's play calling sucks...
Second and one, Eli is in shotgun, and hands off to Gallman?
WTF? That was the time for play action and taking a shot downfield.....
Bring back an "East Coast Offense" looking for chunk plays, with management and coaches on the same page and you've got a QB. If you want a mobile dink and dunk guy, it's not Eli.
As for Eli, he was ordinary. He doesn't have the physical raw skills to lift up the play of other around him. On the other hand, the players around him have C level skills and they are being taught C level strategy.
This is the main problem with the Giants blunder this week. We are going to now have another outrage when they move on from Eli this offseason potentially. Instead of moving forward we will honor the past.
Might as well make next season like the Kobe Bryant final year: we are going to suck but pay homage to #10!
It's like Rangers' fans who blindly insist Henrik is still the same.
For fucks sake, man. Youre losing your mind and becoming a top 3 worst poster on this board. Just brutal. Im embarrassed for you, really. You should seek counseling because whats going on with you isnt normal.
He's become a caricature on BBI. Same embarrassing path that dep went down.
Eli is a shell of his former excellent self. Enjoy his meaningless Swan song and look forward to 2018.
Also, I rushed to BBI to post this? I posted on the game thread throughout the game. I posted on BBI throughout the morning. It's all right there for anybody to see.
I don't understand the personal attacks. I haven't posted anything that warrants them.
Shitty through. Also missed players all day. Thought he played mediocre. Couldn't lead WRs at all.
Amen to this post!
Shock was just a battered child... :-)
The anti Eli crowd will rip him for 10 point outing.
The realists will see he did some decent things but he also misplaced plenty of balls and forced a few picks.
Its too bad the Giants were so dumb to commit this error, they could have moved on cleanly and now the howls are awaiting..........
Shock was just a battered child... :-)
Hey now, thats a reach...
This is the main problem with the Giants blunder this week. We are going to now have another outrage when they move on from Eli this offseason potentially. Instead of moving forward we will honor the past.
Might as well make next season like the Kobe Bryant final year: we are going to suck but pay homage to #10!
I don't think there will be another outrage the next time Eli is benched (permanently). The Giants fired the coach and GM who made the decision, and they put Eli right back in there, and the offense still looked completely impotent out there against a mediocre Cowboys defense, at home, and we lost to them. The fans will see the Giants righted their wrong, but it's just time to move on; add onto that one of top picks in the draft.
They're going in that direction whether the fans like it or not now. They threw the fans their bone due to how terribly the Eli situation was mishandled. That was then. There's no turning back now.
Britt in VA : 10/1/2017 7:19 pm
You idiots? Or are you finally willing to concede the complete organizational failure? Eli put the team on his back today.... Drops, horrible tackling, a 15 yard punt....
Tell me all about 11-5 again. I love that story.
Yeah, keep blaming Eli you fucking idiots. Run him out of town. You deserve the next guy, just like you deserve McAdoo.
But you're correct today's is a milder version. It's just hard to read it without being reminded of your (recent) posting history which you either
A) like to conveniently forget or
B) have convinced yourself is a positive contribution to the board
Mentally unstable?
Okay, dude.... Keep telling yourself you're the rational one.
In other words, there's still further for you to slide.
Mentally unstable?
Okay, dude.... Keep telling yourself you're the rational one.
Yeah, seriously. Who do I have to sleep with to get noticed around here?
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I'm the worst poster on the board?
Mentally unstable?
Okay, dude.... Keep telling yourself you're the rational one.
Yeah, seriously. Who do I have to sleep with to get noticed around here?
Elis taken, so maybe give Snacks a whirl?
He's become a caricature on BBI. Same embarrassing path that dep went down.
Eli is a shell of his former excellent self. Enjoy his meaningless Swan song and look forward to 2018.
Well said on all fronts
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he at least defends his position and is consistent doing so.
Shock was just a battered child... :-)
Hey now, thats a reach...
you know I love that...
The fixation has gotten to dep territory yes. But I don't see Britt attacking people like Dep.
And Btw. While no all star squad, engram Shepard and Vereen are not awful either.how many great weapons does la Rams or philly have? Seattle?
Agree, that he is not a bad poster, but he has to be the biggest asshole on this board. He must have naked pictures of Eric somewhere, because some of the abuse he dishes out is bannable in my eyes. Im pretty sure hes good friends Eric outside the board, so its always brushed over.
He's dug in hard on Eli and a bit stubborn - not an asshole, though.
I think Eli is at a point now where you won't really win with him unless everything else is in place. I don't fault him for this mess - but the more time passes, the more I think you're going to need to put around him to succeed.
This is definitely the right time to draft a QB. We can't look at Eli as a solution, but I wouldn't be against him grooming whoever we draft.
Starting to reach dep levels on this.
Eli was great for this team. He'll always be a Giants legend. But the end is approaching quickly. He'll be 37 in three weeks whether you want to accept that or not.
The sh-t you read here....
Eli made a couple of good throws today and a few awful ones too. My biggest criticism at this point is that he's turned into Checkdown Charlie....90% of his passes are 5 yds or less. Is that him or the game plan? Who knows at this point.
It really is impossible to evaluate him fairly with this OL and these receivers though. But I don't see how you can say he played well either.
It's not like I've advocated playing Eli until he's 50, like many here would imply.
Finally, this has mainly about respect, and the lack of it given to a Giants legend as his career winds down.
What we have here is akin to spitting on the guy on his way out the door.
It's not like I've advocated playing Eli until he's 50, like many here would imply.
Finally, this has mainly about respect, and the lack of it given to a Giants legend as his career winds down.
What we have here is akin to spitting on the guy on his way out the door.
Don't leave the site...we forgive you.
Britt,
With all due respect, do you not see that you bring some of that out in response to your blind loyalty to Eli and the repeated callout threads? People get frustrated/aggravated with your angle and it comes across as what you deem as spitting on Eli.
There's also the reality that no amount of loyalty makes 2007 or 2011 a current reality. A lot of people focus on the present and future more so than the past. You seem to choose a different perspective. More power to you - you have every right to enjoy the Giants however you'd like. What you don't have, however, is the right to tell anyone else how they should be a fan.
People aren't idiots for feeling that Eli is in decline; they just feel differently than you do. And it's probably not all that productive to start these threads immediately after games end which you must be able to predict will turn into a series of arguments. But you do have the right to be a fan however you choose.
Currently Eli is below average. If you actually believe he belongs in the Brady, Peyton, Rodgers type of category then homerism and just plain stupidity runs through you.
Why not like the guy and understand its time to move along. How much money did this dude make? 250 million? Am I a lesser Giants fan for saying so long and thanks for all the fish?
Its ok that Eli goes elsewhere if he wants to. His time is limited and he has never been a game changer but I will look back positively on his years here.
Admitting that the guy is reaching the end isn't spitting or a sign of disrespect. I like you Britt. But you're reaching John Jerry troll status.
Oh...he also missed some easy throws.
I like and think Britt has been a decent poster over the years. But these threads are tantamount to trolling. It's intended to get a certain reaction then get upset when given the reaction.
There's no productive point.
That's exactly right, and what both Cossell and Gilbride said last week applied perfectly to what I watched yesterday.
You see a guy that's making all the right reads, and making the right throws. Not a loss of arm strength. Hasn't lost anything on the mental side.
At halftime, he was 13/15 and a TD for a 119 QBR, higher than he's had in any game when Ben McAdoo was coach.
He doesn't have anything around him. Nothing.
You watch, they're going to put a team around him next year, and we'll revisit these discussions.
Not sure Geno is top 50 and I think wed be about the same with him too, especially since neither of our wins were pass reliant anyway
Honestly at this point in Elis career he is no more impactful than any ole warm body
but... I have to respectfully disagree
Eli last 11 Giants possessions 9 punts and 2 INT... in second half the offense did what it always does this year .. it is unable to extend drives and get points .
Eventually the defense collapses in spectacular fashion and we get blown out.
but... I have to respectfully disagree
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I thought he was on point yesterday, until the game got out of hand and he started forcing it by just chucking it up to try and make a play.
Eli last 11 Giants possessions 9 punts and 2 INT... in second half the offense did what it always does this year .. it is unable to extend drives and get points .
Eventually the defense collapses in spectacular fashion and we get blown out.
And at least three or four drives were killed by awful dropped passes on third down that were on the money, would you agree with that?
Squat to elevate anything. Literally 60 current QBs in the nfl can probably match what hes done for us this season
At halftime, he was 13/15 and a TD for a 119 QBR, higher than he's had in any game when Ben McAdoo was coach.
He doesn't have anything around him. Nothing.
You watch, they're going to put a team around him next year, and we'll revisit these discussions.
That team will be the Jacksonville Jaguars. No chance he is with the Giants, unless he wants to take a real beating for the rest of his career.
Oh and that bonus you think they will give him to make up for the benching... not happening at all. He is getting cut or traded before the league New Year. Especially if Gettleman is the guy taking over.
Speculation stated as fact goes both ways though, no?
We need to get our WR's healthy again (ie getting back OBJ which is critical), find a RB, and rebuild the OL. If this can be done over the summer then Eli can stay and be a good bridge to either Webb or a draft choice. If its going to be a longer rebuild, then we are better off just throwing a kid into the fire, or bringing in a career backup (like Geno) to take the blows until we are ready with Webb/Draft choice.
Id say I couldnt disagree more. Id say most nfl backups could have the Giants at 2-11 as well and similarly help lead a 12 ppg offense without Beckham. Its one thing to concede the talent around him is lacking, but its also undeniable that he hasnt done a thing to elevate the team or maximize its ceiling, even though its not a high ceiling
Id say I couldnt disagree more. Id say most nfl backups could have the Giants at 2-11 as well and similarly help lead a 12 ppg offense without Beckham. Its one thing to concede the talent around him is lacking, but its also undeniable that he hasnt done a thing to elevate the team or maximize its ceiling, even though its not a high ceiling
Perfect example of why its over for him...
Perfect example of why its over for him...
I don't understand how a coaching decision shows that it's over for him, but okay.
I haven't rewatched the game yet so I can't say what contributed to the failures. My impression was that early on, the offense was fairly successful, and that Eli looked pretty good. When I say early on, I mean really early on, as in their first two or three possessions. What about the next 8 or 9, you know, when the game really mattered?
I see that the defense is being blamed again for this loss, which is fair given they allowed 29 points and should never, ever, ever, think this offense can get them 30.
But anyway, back to the original question, imo and without having watched it a second time yet, Eli played like a bottom third QB today. Was his game worthy of more competition-free guaranteed starts and $22MM/yr give or take?
I don't think so.
What happened to the Eli who comes up big in the clutch? I haven't seen him in a long time and I think it only fair to wonder if he still exists.
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Guess we'll see.
Speculation stated as fact goes both ways though, no?
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You watch, they're going to put a team around him next year, and we'll revisit these discussions.
And more of the same:
Britt in VA : 10/14/2017 2:46 pm : link
Period. He may have a 1st overall pick sitting behind him, but he WILL be the starting quarterback barring catastrophic injury, week 1, 2018.
That's a fact, jack.
Britt in VA : 11/5/2017 2:50 pm : link
up their mind.
All I'm saying is we don't have a professional offense right now. Not the roster, not the playbook, not the coach. Nothing about our offense is good.
If you want to pin that all on one guy, go ahead. I don't agree, but I'm also done wasting my time arguing about it.
Here's the deal. Eli will be the starting QB for the Giants next year. He's not getting bench, Webb is likely not the future, and Eli, barring catastrophic injury, WILL BE THE STARTING QB OF THE NEW YORK GIANTS WEEK ONE OF 2018.
It's a lock.
I think he's been pretty meh this year, no QB would look good with this talent in our offense, but I thought he did his job well enough yesterday outside of a couple throws.
He knows how to read a D as good or better than most QB's. I think he'd be a great mentor to whomever we select in round 1. It's definitely time though.
I went ahead and linked some past examples for you. See above.
I have to admit, you definitely are a good guy, Britt. I wish it wasn't so much fun to debate with you.
And that's a fact, jack.
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Like I said, guess we'll see.
I have to admit, you definitely are a good guy, Britt. I wish it wasn't so much fun to debate with you.
And that's a fact, jack.
I guess I'll take "good guy" over "Eric's best friend", "mentally unhinged/unstable", and "top 3 worst poster on the board"....
'
Thanks.
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In comment 13735080 Britt in VA said:
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Like I said, guess we'll see.
I have to admit, you definitely are a good guy, Britt. I wish it wasn't so much fun to debate with you.
And that's a fact, jack.
I guess I'll take "good guy" over "Eric's best friend", "mentally unhinged/unstable", and "top 3 worst poster on the board"....
'
Thanks.
It could always be worse. I had some idiot accuse me of being a Rocky/Cruzin dupe the other day.
I lean more towards what Kevin Gilbride and Greg Cossell see.
Love Eli, but hes not doing anything whatsoever to elevate this team from the minimal offensive ceiling they may have. Its over
@BobPapa_NFL
4m4 minutes ago
According to @NFLMatchup @giants have dropped the highest % of passes in the NFL
Love Eli, but hes not doing anything whatsoever to elevate this team from the minimal offensive ceiling they may have. Its over
What opinions did I cherry pick? Kevin Gilbride and Greg Cossell?
What other opinions are out there, non fan, right now about Eli being in decline or not? Those interviews happened last week. How is that cherry picking?
I lean more towards what Kevin Gilbride and Greg Cossell see.
I'm with Cossell too. Didn't he say that Eli has become a guy who needs a near-perfect offense at this point, that he's incapable of lifting the team around him?
I believe, like Gilbride, Cossell and you, that Eli can still make all the throws. His occasional misses I can live with - all QB's have them. He does seem to be what a lot of young and talented QB's are - able to win games if he has a great system, talent at the skill positions, a running game, and enough time to make throws.
Is that what we're striving for on offense? Since we don't have that, we can't expect much more from Eli right now, correct?
What did we gain by playing Eli yesterday over giving playing time to Webb? I know some would argue that putting in a raw rookie in these conditions could stunt his long-term potential, but I also know you're not one of those posters as you've made it clear that Webb isn't going to be the long-term solution for the Giants anyway.
So what exactly did we gain with Eli yesterday?
I lean more towards what Kevin Gilbride and Greg Cossell see.
What Greg Cosell sees isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for Eli though - it's entirely possible that he might struggle to correct his recent habit of pulling away from this throws. He has done it a number of times this season even when the pass pro has held up. And that will be the huge question facing the Giants: can Eli correct those bad habits at age 37 and is it worth it to gamble on his ability to do so?
One of the things that I've noted is that it actually may work in Eli's favor that the roster construction most likely to make him successful for one more season is also the same way a team probably should build around a rookie QB (strong OL, effective running game). And if Eli is willing to embrace being a mentor (no reason to believe he wouldn't) and understand that there is at least a possibility that the rookie or Webb could take his job as early as next season (much more of an open question, IMO), I think he could be back.
But the bigger question is, will he want to come back? If he sees an opportunity to join a team like Jacksonville that appears to be closer to a Super Bowl run, would he prefer that?
And I guess my question to you - purely out of curiosity and for the purposes of discussion - if the Giants did indicate a willingness to build a team around Eli one last time and he chose to request his release or trade anyway, how would that affect your feelings toward him? I wouldn't suggest that anyone should be any less grateful for his career, but would you feel at all betrayed that the loyalty that you've asked the Giants and their fans to feel for Eli might not be reciprocated?
Obviously that's a very specific hypothetical scenario.
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to Eli on this board, whether that's what people [/i]want[/i] to see (both ways) or whether they're understanding exactly what they're seeing.
I lean more towards what Kevin Gilbride and Greg Cossell see.
I'm with Cossell too. Didn't he say that Eli has become a guy who needs a near-perfect offense at this point, that he's incapable of lifting the team around him?
I believe, like Gilbride, Cossell and you, that Eli can still make all the throws. His occasional misses I can live with - all QB's have them. He does seem to be what a lot of young and talented QB's are - able to win games if he has a great system, talent at the skill positions, a running game, and enough time to make throws.
Is that what we're striving for on offense? Since we don't have that, we can't expect much more from Eli right now, correct?
What did we gain by playing Eli yesterday over giving playing time to Webb? I know some would argue that putting in a raw rookie in these conditions could stunt his long-term potential, but I also know you're not one of those posters as you've made it clear that Webb isn't going to be the long-term solution for the Giants anyway.
So what exactly did we gain with Eli yesterday?
My counter to that is, what is any rookie QB, or anybody, going to come in and do with this situation?
If you don't have the pieces, you don't have the pieces.
There aren't many Aaron Rodgers out there, which is basically what we're talking about here.
What do all the young QB success stories have in common? Successful teams around them. Besides Aaron Rodgers, who regularly makes chicken salad out of chicken sh-t in the NFL?
Have our own opinions. I dont get how you can come off so dismissive that Eli could in fact just be washed. It happens to everyone
Have our own opinions. I dont get how you can come off so dismissive that Eli could in fact just be washed. It happens to everyone
Cossell is one of the most respected tape guys in the NFL.
You didn't have to look hard for the interview, it was posted on BBI, which is where I saw it.
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after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.
Perfect example of why its over for him...
I don't understand how a coaching decision shows that it's over for him, but okay.
OK ... I read a of of this thread, surprised that so many are debating whether or not Britt's a good guy, a troll, other things.
Of the handful of "good guys" on BBI, Britt's certainly in the mix. His love for Eli gets him hammered but I have no doubt it's legit. It's possible, maybe likely that his perspective is skewed by his emotional lean toward Manning (I suffer a similar disability), but it's nowhere near troll levels.
He's talked about a fan level of disrespect for 10 (agreed). He's talked about having more confidence in Eli than most (I see the warts, but can also see the team having success with the right moves made next off-season). He's talked about drafting a QB (I would like to know what we have in Webb first, but OK ... seems we may have 2 young QBs in-house soon enough.)
But holy hell. Three straight running plays is an indication that Eli's lost it? Damn ... that's nutty.
My counter to that is, what is any rookie QB, or anybody, going to come in and do with this situation?
Ummm... learn and grow from the experience? What would be wrong with that?
Serious question - and no offense intended, but do you generally look backward in life or do you plan forward? I ask that because you seem to be influenced heavily on what was years ago and less concerned about what will be next year and beyond.
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My counter to that is, what is any rookie QB, or anybody, going to come in and do with this situation?
Ummm... learn and grow from the experience? What would be wrong with that?
Serious question - and no offense intended, but do you generally look backward in life or do you plan forward? I ask that because you seem to be influenced heavily on what was years ago and less concerned about what will be next year and beyond.
I find it odd that you are trying to psycho analyze me based on posts on a football message board.
I've stated over and over and over again to draft a QB round one, this upcoming draft.
I find it odd that you are trying to psycho analyze me based on posts on a football message board.
I've stated over and over and over again to draft a QB round one, this upcoming draft.
It's called having a discussion. I know you would draft someone next year, but am wondering why you are so opposed to the idea of playing someone other than Eli now? Not just anyone, but someone the Giants believed a few months back could eventually replace Eli?
You don't seem to answer the one question that most interests me. What did we gain from playing Eli yesterday?
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I find it odd that you are trying to psycho analyze me based on posts on a football message board.
I've stated over and over and over again to draft a QB round one, this upcoming draft.
It's called having a discussion. I know you would draft someone next year, but am wondering why you are so opposed to the idea of playing someone other than Eli now? Not just anyone, but someone the Giants believed a few months back could eventually replace Eli?
You don't seem to answer the one question that most interests me. What did we gain from playing Eli yesterday?
Nothing. But what is there to be gained in a 2-11 season anyway? If you're referring to Webb, I said in the other discussion on other threads, Webb is not ready. All indications point to that, or he would be out there. Dressed and active, at the very least. He's not.
People can try and reverse engineer a reason to sit webb... the most pathetic being the dramatic.. HOW CAN WE LEARN ANYTHING WITH THIS OL AND WR.... ummmm he can learn a lot... he might suck... but he will still learn. and the bar is so low with an offense that scores 13 a game that its not like he will have some terrible stigma if he goes out and struggles.
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I find it odd that you are trying to psycho analyze me based on posts on a football message board.
I've stated over and over and over again to draft a QB round one, this upcoming draft.
It's called having a discussion. I know you would draft someone next year, but am wondering why you are so opposed to the idea of playing someone other than Eli now? Not just anyone, but someone the Giants believed a few months back could eventually replace Eli?
You don't seem to answer the one question that most interests me. What did we gain from playing Eli yesterday?
I'll try, Dan.
1. Another week for Webb to prep (assuming he will get game snaps).
2. Eli is a respected vet. There's zero to be gained from starting Geno Smith over him.
3. And, of course, the loss is of some value regarding the draft.
There are no great answers. But those are three.
Nothing. But what is there to be gained in a 2-11 season anyway? If you're referring to Webb, I said in the other discussion on other threads, Webb is not ready. All indications point to that, or he would be out there. Dressed and active, at the very least. He's not.
This is what I and others have been arguing with you about for some time. Many of us have been unhappy that we decided to go back to Eli with nothing to gain right now, when at the least, a young QB who admittedly might not be ready could at the very least have a growth/learning experience.
The fact that he's not ready to play games at this point of the season is maddening to many of us. You have disparaged that feeling we've expressed and is the reason why I wanted you to admit that we gained nothing from Eli playing.
I'm interested in you Britt because I see you as a serious poster whose opinions I enjoy reading, not because I'm obsessed with you. I found it interesting that following a game where we gained nothing by playing Eli you came here nearly as soon as it ended to ask about how he played.
If it bothers you that I've spent time thinking about you then I apologize and I can easily remedy that. Hope you enjoy your holiday season.
But holy hell. Three straight running plays is an indication that Eli's lost it? Damn ... that's nutty.
Did you think you were watching the last 2 minutes of tie-game in the SuperBowl?
your nutty...
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In comment 13735058 Jimmy Googs said:
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after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.
Perfect example of why its over for him...
I don't understand how a coaching decision shows that it's over for him, but okay.
OK ... I read a of of this thread, surprised that so many are debating whether or not Britt's a good guy, a troll, other things.
Of the handful of "good guys" on BBI, Britt's certainly in the mix. His love for Eli gets him hammered but I have no doubt it's legit. It's possible, maybe likely that his perspective is skewed by his emotional lean toward Manning (I suffer a similar disability), but it's nowhere near troll levels.
He's talked about a fan level of disrespect for 10 (agreed). He's talked about having more confidence in Eli than most (I see the warts, but can also see the team having success with the right moves made next off-season). He's talked about drafting a QB (I would like to know what we have in Webb first, but OK ... seems we may have 2 young QBs in-house soon enough.)
But holy hell. Three straight running plays is an indication that Eli's lost it? Damn ... that's nutty.
For me, it is the body of work this year. What did he do before the injuries? The OL..There a lot of hurting OLs out there. Eli is not making anyone better. They had that nice play in there, it worked. Ellison was WIDE OPEN. He missed it badly. Eli is the best QB the Giants have ever had. He is done...worse, he will be the last to see it. He says, he is sad that McAdoo got fired. He got him fired by playing like shit and benching himself. McAdoo should have had some balls and said FU, you are starting tomorrow. You are not making me the coach that broke the streak. I am going to send you out there and you are going to have to refuse to go in on national TV. Eli has a little bit of spoiled brat in him. If he stays, he needs to take a pay cut so we can put better players around him. Better QBs have taken pay cuts to get players.
Hire a new coach and GM. Keep Eli as a placeholder to the QB you draft in round one (or Davis Webb, whomever wins the training camp battle for #2). You have a new offense. Your GM makes some thrifty moves, on a team that actually has some talent at the skill positions on both sides of the ball, but thrifty moves to shore up the trenches. You start Eli when you take the wrapper off of all this week one, and let the chips fall where they may.
This is the most conservative and logical approach for the following reasons:
-A veteran QB to learn a new offense and help coach up everybody else on offense, including young understudies.
-The value of keeping Eli under contract is more than cutting him, eating the dead cap number, and then signing a lesser veteran anyways. 12.5 million plus 6-14 million for a guy like Mike Glennon or Jay Cutler is actually the same cap space or more, than keeping Manning.
-A new coach likely would be able to hedge their bets by having a vet like Eli. That way, if you start winning, you're in position to actually make a run at something, but if you're losing, you buy yourself more time by putting it on Manning and then pulling him for the rookies, which would need more time to grow.
-This is a pretty common protocol for transition in the NFL.
But all of the information that is out there, that we are privy to, is that the people that make decisions don't think he's ready.
If that's maddening to you, well... Sorry? I don't know what to say. But that's what it's looking like right now, that he's not ready.
And it doesn't matter what you, me, the media, or anybody else except the people in the building that have the power to make the decision, thinks.
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But holy hell. Three straight running plays is an indication that Eli's lost it? Damn ... that's nutty.
Did you think you were watching the last 2 minutes of tie-game in the SuperBowl?
your nutty...
Do you not factor in ANY of the existing personnel?
You (and others) act as though personnel in these games makes zero difference.
But the fact of the matter is that he's not being dressed, for whatever reason.
You take that as me crapping on you for wanting to see Webb, when all I'm doing (I feel like) is stating the obvious.
the giants (in the giants view) were supposed to compete for the division.
Geno was the 2 because a vet is needed for a contender if the QB goes down.
Webb not getting reps is because until they were fully eliminated... the head coach who had been under fire was not going to have a rookie come in for Eli.
if the giants new they would be in rebuild all year.... they would have gotten webb reps much earlier...
so here we are... with a few weeks left..,. and there is no downside to getting the kid reps and into the game with a modified playbook... which is basically the playbook anyway since it should be tossed into a dumpster fire.
Perfect example of why its over for him...
I think a more realistic view of this is that the Cowboys D set up in a formation that gave the Giants the run rather than pass. Eli, and Sullivan, saw this and checked into runs. Dallas was betting that we couldn't run the ball against them in a base setup, and they were correct. IMO this is more an indictment of our running game (line and backs) than anything to do with Eli.
Exactly, the whole situation is toxic.
Yeah, I don't know either, but we have to at least entertain the option that the coaches don't like what they've seen from Webb, even if it is simply running scout teams. Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense to at the very least not give him practice reps.
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You believe what you want and cherry pick opinions who agree with you while we let the results speak for themselves. I just watched Geno play a game with this team and it looked just about no different than any game Ive seen Eli play without Beckham this year
Love Eli, but hes not doing anything whatsoever to elevate this team from the minimal offensive ceiling they may have. Its over
What opinions did I cherry pick? Kevin Gilbride and Greg Cossell?
What other opinions are out there, non fan, right now about Eli being in decline or not? Those interviews happened last week. How is that cherry picking?
As a matter of fact, I havent heard any former or current coaches or players say they think Eli is in decline. Well, Charley Casserly is the only one that said hes not getting better. Thats the only one.
@NFLMatchup
Replying to @BobPapa_NFL @Giants
As far as raw numbers go, they have dropped the most passes in the league, with 30 drops, and also the highest percentage of targets, with 6.4%.
Any way you slice it, it's not good- a receiving core of backups is bound to have this happen.
@BobPapa_NFL
9m9 minutes ago
Thanks for update. The problem for them was the drops started before the starters got hurt.
But all of the information that is out there, that we are privy to, is that the people that make decisions don't think he's ready.
If that's maddening to you, well... Sorry? I don't know what to say. But that's what it's looking like right now, that he's not ready.
And it doesn't matter what you, me, the media, or anybody else except the people in the building that have the power to make the decision, thinks.
He got his first reps as a backup this past week, which was a short week for some reason (They started practice on Thursday I want to say). Give him at least 2 more weeks of reps as a backup, and I am sure he will dress and play in some games.
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there is a reason he's not active. What that reason is, I don't know.
But all of the information that is out there, that we are privy to, is that the people that make decisions don't think he's ready.
If that's maddening to you, well... Sorry? I don't know what to say. But that's what it's looking like right now, that he's not ready.
And it doesn't matter what you, me, the media, or anybody else except the people in the building that have the power to make the decision, thinks.
He got his first reps as a backup this past week, which was a short week for some reason (They started practice on Thursday I want to say). Give him at least 2 more weeks of reps as a backup, and I am sure he will dress and play in some games.
Give him at least two more weeks and then we'll see him dress and play in "some games"?
There's only three weeks left in the season.
-A new coach likely would be able to hedge their bets by having a vet like Eli. That way, if you start winning, you're in position to actually make a run at something, but if you're losing, you buy yourself more time by putting it on Manning and then pulling him for the rookies, which would need more time to grow.
-This is a pretty common protocol for transition in the NFL.
The one thing I think you're really underestimating is how much the media/fan hysterics of a couple weeks ago might affect the thinking of the new coach.
I think it would only be natural if the new coach was hesitant to invite a repeat of that same situation if/when the time came to transition to the young QB midseason. And if you're being honest with yourself, you know that a midseason switch would always be on the radar just like it was for Warner with Eli.
It might not be the top consideration, but it's not insignificant either.
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In comment 13735184 Beezer said:
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But holy hell. Three straight running plays is an indication that Eli's lost it? Damn ... that's nutty.
Did you think you were watching the last 2 minutes of tie-game in the SuperBowl?
your nutty...
Do you not factor in ANY of the existing personnel?
You (and others) act as though personnel in these games makes zero difference.
So our first round pick match-up nightmare Tight End is not worthy of getting a chance? How about our second round pick slot guy from the year before? How about a throw to the back of the end zone that if our guy doesnt catch it nobody does?
How about trying to make a play...
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of weeks...
-A new coach likely would be able to hedge their bets by having a vet like Eli. That way, if you start winning, you're in position to actually make a run at something, but if you're losing, you buy yourself more time by putting it on Manning and then pulling him for the rookies, which would need more time to grow.
-This is a pretty common protocol for transition in the NFL.
The one thing I think you're really underestimating is how much the media/fan hysterics of a couple weeks ago might affect the thinking of the new coach.
I think it would only be natural if the new coach was hesitant to invite a repeat of that same situation if/when the time came to transition to the young QB midseason. And if you're being honest with yourself, you know that a midseason switch would always be on the radar just like it was for Warner with Eli.
It might not be the top consideration, but it's not insignificant either.
Actually I do think it would be different. There was zero reason to bench Eli last week and start Geno. None. It was a desperate, final act of two desperate men to save their jobs by once and for all dumping the failure at Eli's feet.
That's what the reaction was about.
They actually did the new regime a favor. Now the streak is over, and if a QB is drafted round one, you have a reason to bench Manning that fans can accept, if it comes to that.
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after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.
Perfect example of why its over for him...
I think a more realistic view of this is that the Cowboys D set up in a formation that gave the Giants the run rather than pass. Eli, and Sullivan, saw this and checked into runs. Dallas was betting that we couldn't run the ball against them in a base setup, and they were correct. IMO this is more an indictment of our running game (line and backs) than anything to do with Eli.
So its nearly Christmas and we were 2-10 and decided to give the run 3 straight chances (4 if you count the penalty) versus putting the ball in the hands of Eli who can try and make a play?
the answer is simply...nobody believes he can and probably not even himself otherwise someone would say...lets give him a chance.
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In comment 13735233 Britt in VA said:
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there is a reason he's not active. What that reason is, I don't know.
But all of the information that is out there, that we are privy to, is that the people that make decisions don't think he's ready.
If that's maddening to you, well... Sorry? I don't know what to say. But that's what it's looking like right now, that he's not ready.
And it doesn't matter what you, me, the media, or anybody else except the people in the building that have the power to make the decision, thinks.
He got his first reps as a backup this past week, which was a short week for some reason (They started practice on Thursday I want to say). Give him at least 2 more weeks of reps as a backup, and I am sure he will dress and play in some games.
Give him at least two more weeks and then we'll see him dress and play in "some games"?
There's only three weeks left in the season.
This is what I was talking about, with you being an asshole. There is NO reason to act like a jerk.
The point being, they did not want to throw him to the Wolves with no preparation whatsoever.
As far as what he can gain from playing in our putrid offense, he can get to experience the speed of playing against an NFL team, and learn what it's like to process and make decisions when under that duress. Better he learns it sooner, rather then later.
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In comment 13735058 Jimmy Googs said:
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after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.
Perfect example of why its over for him...
I think a more realistic view of this is that the Cowboys D set up in a formation that gave the Giants the run rather than pass. Eli, and Sullivan, saw this and checked into runs. Dallas was betting that we couldn't run the ball against them in a base setup, and they were correct. IMO this is more an indictment of our running game (line and backs) than anything to do with Eli.
So its nearly Christmas and we were 2-10 and decided to give the run 3 straight chances (4 if you count the penalty) versus putting the ball in the hands of Eli who can try and make a play?
the answer is simply...nobody believes he can and probably not even himself otherwise someone would say...lets give him a chance.
It was 1st and 20 after a 16 play drive, in a 3-0 game in which we are overmatched.
It's pretty common to go conservative and take the points, there. I see it week in, week out in the NFL, even with rosters much better than ours.
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In comment 13735302 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
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In comment 13735233 Britt in VA said:
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there is a reason he's not active. What that reason is, I don't know.
But all of the information that is out there, that we are privy to, is that the people that make decisions don't think he's ready.
If that's maddening to you, well... Sorry? I don't know what to say. But that's what it's looking like right now, that he's not ready.
And it doesn't matter what you, me, the media, or anybody else except the people in the building that have the power to make the decision, thinks.
He got his first reps as a backup this past week, which was a short week for some reason (They started practice on Thursday I want to say). Give him at least 2 more weeks of reps as a backup, and I am sure he will dress and play in some games.
Give him at least two more weeks and then we'll see him dress and play in "some games"?
There's only three weeks left in the season.
This is what I was talking about, with you being an asshole. There is NO reason to act like a jerk.
The point being, they did not want to throw him to the Wolves with no preparation whatsoever.
As far as what he can gain from playing in our putrid offense, he can get to experience the speed of playing against an NFL team, and learn what it's like to process and make decisions when under that duress. Better he learns it sooner, rather then later.
Hahah, geez... How is stating the obvious being an asshole?
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after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.
Perfect example of why its over for him...
I think a more realistic view of this is that the Cowboys D set up in a formation that gave the Giants the run rather than pass. Eli, and Sullivan, saw this and checked into runs. Dallas was betting that we couldn't run the ball against them in a base setup, and they were correct. IMO this is more an indictment of our running game (line and backs) than anything to do with Eli.
You can't just always take what the opponent gives you - sometimes you have to impose your will on them. Of course they're going to give the Giants the run on 1st and 20! That's not necessarily an indictment of the Giants running game. Lombardi's Packers wouldn't consistently convert from a starting point of 1st and 20.
And I don't mean for that to be entirely on Eli, either, but the whole "take what the defense gives you" no matter what the circumstance is, is frustrating. We've seen it a number of times late in games as well, when the Giants have a chance to score to get back into the game, but continue to dink and dunk the clock away.
To the extent, however, that we know that Eli has historically been a gunslinger and that we believe he still has carte blanche when it comes to audibles, it's at least a little bit on him that he's become so much more conservative himself. It's not like he's never made a play in his career while throwing into coverage.
You sure about that? Webb is an afterthought because of the "franchise guy we are getting"?
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In comment 13735058 Jimmy Googs said:
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after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.
Perfect example of why its over for him...
I think a more realistic view of this is that the Cowboys D set up in a formation that gave the Giants the run rather than pass. Eli, and Sullivan, saw this and checked into runs. Dallas was betting that we couldn't run the ball against them in a base setup, and they were correct. IMO this is more an indictment of our running game (line and backs) than anything to do with Eli.
You can't just always take what the opponent gives you - sometimes you have to impose your will on them. Of course they're going to give the Giants the run on 1st and 20! That's not necessarily an indictment of the Giants running game. Lombardi's Packers wouldn't consistently convert from a starting point of 1st and 20.
And I don't mean for that to be entirely on Eli, either, but the whole "take what the defense gives you" no matter what the circumstance is, is frustrating. We've seen it a number of times late in games as well, when the Giants have a chance to score to get back into the game, but continue to dink and dunk the clock away.
To the extent, however, that we know that Eli has historically been a gunslinger and that we believe he still has carte blanche when it comes to audibles, it's at least a little bit on him that he's become so much more conservative himself. It's not like he's never made a play in his career while throwing into coverage.
Look I'm not stating anything as fact, I'm just pointing out that there are other reasons here. I think, in my opinion not fact, that at that stage of the game, with long yardage to go and the D playing it as such, that the Giants decided it was more important to take the points. A lot of teams have also made that decision. I think it had more to do with the game situation than Eli.
1. Britt talks well about Eli again
2. Gatorade Jimmy Googs and others debate the same thing over and over... again
3. Arc comes in as the middle ground and nails everything, right on the head...again
Can this season just end already?
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In comment 13735223 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 13735184 Beezer said:
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But holy hell. Three straight running plays is an indication that Eli's lost it? Damn ... that's nutty.
Did you think you were watching the last 2 minutes of tie-game in the SuperBowl?
your nutty...
Do you not factor in ANY of the existing personnel?
You (and others) act as though personnel in these games makes zero difference.
So our first round pick match-up nightmare Tight End is not worthy of getting a chance? How about our second round pick slot guy from the year before? How about a throw to the back of the end zone that if our guy doesnt catch it nobody does?
How about trying to make a play...
Yeah, I'm with you. Just not putting those decisions on Eli. Unless he's calling the plays in the huddle, and in that case, OK. I just did not think he was.
I mean sure, he missed Ellison but that was the opening drive to make it 3-3, they settled for a FG anyway. There were three Cowboy defenders right by Ellison at the 25. I highly doubt that's a walk in touchdown if he hits him right in the hand. Same drive, three points.
Shepard practically ran to the same spot where Ellison was missed, just a few plays later. The Giants were done in by another dumb ass offensive lineman penalty.
It sets the tone...
A lot of coaches would play conservative there. We see it every week.
I say, they're 2-10 with nothing to lose, but that's not how they were thinking.
But give it a shot. Otherwise I think Webb can hand off 3 straight times too...
As far as "elevating" the players around him, some of these guys weren't even on rosters 8 weeks ago. They'll go back to out of the NFL after this offseason. I think you're expecting too much.
Even Engram gets plenty of targets and catches. He also has a lot of drops.
That's pretty much the only reliable receiver he consistently has. And before you mention Sheppard, I said consistently.
As far as "elevating" the players around him, some of these guys weren't even on rosters 8 weeks ago. They'll go back to out of the NFL after this offseason. I think you're expecting too much.
Even Engram gets plenty of targets and catches. He also has a lot of drops.
That's pretty much the only reliable receiver he consistently has. And before you mention Sheppard, I said consistently.
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but I am saying that the truth is, there's as little to gain from that as playing Eli. Whether it's Webb, Smith, or eve3n Eli for that matter, at this point it is wanting them to play just to see them play. Neither Smith nor Webb has a future here. Webb would have had a future if we had made the playoffs or even just finished outside the playoffs. But we didn't, so he he doesn't. The only one with a future actually, is Eli and that's iffy at this point. His future is as a mentor or potential bridge to the franchise guy we are getting. And, we already know what Eli is, so there's no real need to evaluate him. For future purposes, the QB is the least important position to look at this season. YEt, it's the most talked about.
You sure about that? Webb is an afterthought because of the "franchise guy we are getting"?
kind of amazing he can simply get out of bed each day and make it to the stadium.
We really need to revamp the draft evaluation process and ask the students if they ever even played real football before...
In 2014 Eli was 6th in yards, and 6th in TD's in the NFL.
In 2015 Eli was 6th in yards and 3rd in TD's in the NFL.
He's had two bad years in an awful offense.
We scored 30 or more points 7 times in 2015, including 3 out of the last 4 games.
The offense changed a lot more than the player did, and the results everywhere reflect that.
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can "hand it off three straight times" since he hasn't taken many snaps from center.
kind of amazing he can simply get out of bed each day and make it to the stadium.
We really need to revamp the draft evaluation process and ask the students if they ever even played real football before...
You need to direct this at the guys making the decisions, the professionals that are currently evaluating this and coming to the conclusion that he isn't ready, not me.
Hes my favorite Giant of all-time. I didnt get to see much of LT. I didnt get to see 1990 or really remember it, but I will acknowledge that he is getting older and he is starting to decline, not the same guy he was in 2011 of course.
I honestly think he has taken so much abuse and way too many hits over the course of his career thats why its starting to show, mixed with age. He played in 210 straight games behind James Brewer, Will Beatty, and even Pughs no-shows against Philly.
I don't think it was ever in the itinerary for Eli to be great this season, was it? We were worried about him the most going into this season here on BBI. We were talking Super Bowl. We just needed "enough" from him because we thought this defense would return to its 2016 form and offensively Eli needed to be a pro manager, reading defenses and OBJ kind of do the rest. Come weeks 1 and 2 against a mediocre Dallas team, this offense with Beckham not 100% looked like well, a team that was destined for 2-11.
That plan from 2016 didnt translate over. Those two games to open the season were trash. The play calling, the clueless coaching, the bad blocking, drops, Marshall was essentially worthless.
Hes just playing for the sake of playing, I get it. But him missing a wide open guy and then forgetting about it and making a play like the one he made to Shepard on the very next one, thats always kind of been his thing. The upside is the Giants are going to be getting a good draft pick and a shiny new QB.
2017 we were fucked from the start with the OBJ injury vs the Browns
1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int
If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5
1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int
Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.
in 2015, when Eli was 6th in yards and 3rd in TD's, McCown was 28th in yards and 30th in TD's.
Kind of silly, no?
1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int
If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5
1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int
Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.
That's not how stats in football work. You can't combine five seasons and compare them.
Each season is it's own entity.
1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int
If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5
1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int
Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.
McCown is done for the year now, but yeah, he had a much better year than anyone thought he would with no talent around him on the Jets. Pretty crazy.
If you think any of that is relevant, I don't know what to tell you.
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In comment 13735259 Bill L said:
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but I am saying that the truth is, there's as little to gain from that as playing Eli. Whether it's Webb, Smith, or eve3n Eli for that matter, at this point it is wanting them to play just to see them play. Neither Smith nor Webb has a future here. Webb would have had a future if we had made the playoffs or even just finished outside the playoffs. But we didn't, so he he doesn't. The only one with a future actually, is Eli and that's iffy at this point. His future is as a mentor or potential bridge to the franchise guy we are getting. And, we already know what Eli is, so there's no real need to evaluate him. For future purposes, the QB is the least important position to look at this season. YEt, it's the most talked about.
You sure about that? Webb is an afterthought because of the "franchise guy we are getting"?
I'm 100% sure. Exceptions don't change strategy.
Oh, I agree with you that you can't base your strategy around exceptions - I'm not denying that. But you're the one declaring that Webb has no future with this team and I'm just saying that there's no way for you to know that. It's entirely possible that the supposed franchise QB the Giants select could wash out, and it's also possible that they both end up being very good with Webb being even better than whoever they draft.
I'm not disagreeing with the premise of the Giants selecting a QB at the top of the draft, just the certainty that anyone can say for sure that Webb has no future with the team. And I used Cousins as the example because he was drafted three rounds behind Griffin (in the same draft) with the idea that Griffin would be the franchise QB and Cousins would be likely be just a backup or trade bait. Years later, Griffin is currently out of the league while Cousins has thrown for more than twice as many TDs as RG3 over their careers and is poised to cash in with a huge contract.
There just isn't a way for you (or anyone else) to be certain that Webb has no future with the team.
Stay the course, the offense will come around some day...
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5 years of ELi
1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int
If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5
1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int
Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.
That's not how stats in football work. You can't combine five seasons and compare them.
Each season is it's own entity.
I'm giving you a season at the Jets with terrible talent around him for an older QB and making it 5 years. I gave Eli Stats for the last 5 years starting at 2013. Eli last 5 years is journeyman stats, you cannot spin or deflect your way out.
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In comment 13735893 Thegratefulhead said:
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5 years of ELi
1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int
If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5
1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int
Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.
That's not how stats in football work. You can't combine five seasons and compare them.
Each season is it's own entity.
I'm giving you a season at the Jets with terrible talent around him for an older QB and making it 5 years. I gave Eli Stats for the last 5 years starting at 2013. Eli last 5 years is journeyman stats, you cannot spin or deflect your way out.
Did 2014 and 2015 occur in the last five years?
1833 2815 65.12% 21553 148 70
Eli Manning: 14th in the NFL in yards, 21st in TD's
Josh McCown: 30th in the NFL in yards, 27th in TD's
2014:
Eli Manning: 6th in the NFL in yards, 6th in TD's
Josh McCown: 28th in the NFL in yards, 30th in TD's
2015:
Eli Manning: 6th in the NFL in yards, 3rd in TD's
Josh McCown: 30th in the NFL in yards, 30th in TD's
2016:
Eli Manning: 13th in the NFL in yards, 11th in TD's
Josh McCown: 34th in the NFL in yards, 35th in TD's
Are you really saying this is comparable?
Quote:
In comment 13735905 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13735893 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
5 years of ELi
1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int
If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5
1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int
Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.
That's not how stats in football work. You can't combine five seasons and compare them.
Each season is it's own entity.
I'm giving you a season at the Jets with terrible talent around him for an older QB and making it 5 years. I gave Eli Stats for the last 5 years starting at 2013. Eli last 5 years is journeyman stats, you cannot spin or deflect your way out.
Did 2014 and 2015 occur in the last five years?
Nobody is changing anybody's mind. We'll just watch it play out and see what happens, then revisit later.
@giantswfan
3m3 minutes ago
Spags said "probrably no differently" when asked about plans for Webb this week....(likely means he stays 3rd string) #giants
Other than that, I thought he was extremely accurate.
Yep, that pass to Ellison where nobody was within five yards
of the guy was extremely accurate in the first half.
The ball was five yards over his head too!
Guess you had stepped away from the tube huh?
Nobody is changing anybody's mind. We'll just watch it play out and see what happens, then revisit later.
.....
Route 9 : 11:43 am : link : reply
Same old shit.
1. Britt talks well about Eli again
2. Gatorade Jimmy Googs and others debate the same thing over and over... again
3. Arc comes in as the middle ground and nails everything, right on the head...again
It's all archived right here on BBI.
All we can do is wait and see, now.
It's all archived right here on BBI.
All we can do is wait and see, now.