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Eli was bad today?

Britt in VA : 12/10/2017 4:08 pm
For that crowd, I ask.... What plays did he leave on the field? What plays did he not make that changed the game?

Yeah, he threw 2 INT's, after we were down two, then three, scores... But when the game was still undecided?

What plays did he not make/leave on the field?
Doesn't even matter at this point.  
Dave in Hoboken : 12/10/2017 4:09 pm : link
He played fine, but he'll be 37 in 3 weeks and we'll have one top picks in the upcoming draft in a QB heavy draft. We'll be taking a QB.
He did miss one wide open receiver  
gmenatlarge : 12/10/2017 4:10 pm : link
I think it was from the shock of him being so open!
*one of the top picks.  
Dave in Hoboken : 12/10/2017 4:10 pm : link
.
Missed a wide open Ellison on the three OL play  
adamg : 12/10/2017 4:10 pm : link
That was pretty brutal.
yes  
giantfan2000 : 12/10/2017 4:11 pm : link
he never looked down field everything was short underneath
since he is so immobile he can't extend the plays EVERY

there were a couple of times where he let balls go when he felt phantom pressure
To many drops  
Ira : 12/10/2017 4:11 pm : link
.
Really only bad passes  
section125 : 12/10/2017 4:11 pm : link
were the WR screen he threw too high and allowed the DB to make the play and the pass to Engram that should have been PI, Illegal Contact or Holding.

Other than that, I thought he was extremely accurate.
He did ok  
mdthedream : 12/10/2017 4:12 pm : link
with what we have on the field. That said its time to see what the rookie has because if not we are going to draft a QB and we should if we don't look at Webb. It is time to get prepared for the end of Eli.
We scored 10 points  
Thunderstruck27 : 12/10/2017 4:12 pm : link
Is there an argument?
who cares anymore  
micky : 12/10/2017 4:12 pm : link
I mean really?
yes  
bc4life : 12/10/2017 4:12 pm : link
drops and some defensive brain farts
RE: Missed a wide open Ellison on the three OL play  
bradshaw44 : 12/10/2017 4:13 pm : link
In comment 13733628 adamg said:
Quote:
That was pretty brutal.


This was his one bad play. And I saw Ryan and Brees do similar errors on Thursday night. It happens. Of corse we need to find his replacement, but we dont need to put every fucking loss on him like the anti Eli crowd would love to do.
RE: We scored 10 points  
Britt in VA : 12/10/2017 4:13 pm : link
In comment 13733637 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
Is there an argument?


You think we scored 10 points because of Eli? You think another QB would have produced more with the same cast?
RE: RE: Missed a wide open Ellison on the three OL play  
adamg : 12/10/2017 4:14 pm : link
In comment 13733645 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
In comment 13733628 adamg said:


Quote:


That was pretty brutal.



This was his one bad play. And I saw Ryan and Brees do similar errors on Thursday night. It happens. Of corse we need to find his replacement, but we dont need to put every fucking loss on him like the anti Eli crowd would love to do.


I agree. But if the point is that Eli is somehow not part of our failures, you're living under a rock. We need to move on from Eli.
Bad?  
ajr2456 : 12/10/2017 4:14 pm : link
No. Great? Also no.
bad  
giantfan2000 : 12/10/2017 4:14 pm : link
could convert when it counted

then when he throws downfield INT
Britt...  
M.S. : 12/10/2017 4:15 pm : link

...it doesn't matter anymore about Eli.

He's now our past.

At #2 Baker Mayfield is our future.
too many drops  
SHO'NUFF : 12/10/2017 4:15 pm : link
is on Eli...the ball comes out weird on his passes.
He has nothing to work with  
Sammo85 : 12/10/2017 4:15 pm : link
But these next three games are probably his last as a Giant.
I just don't understand what some people are watching....  
Britt in VA : 12/10/2017 4:15 pm : link
or what their expectations are.
QB play is determined by the amount of points you lead to  
NYSports1 : 12/10/2017 4:16 pm : link
10 points at home vs average defense and zero in second half. That is all that needs to be said.
RE: RE: We scored 10 points  
Thunderstruck27 : 12/10/2017 4:17 pm : link
In comment 13733647 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13733637 Thunderstruck27 said:


Quote:


Is there an argument?



You think we scored 10 points because of Eli? You think another QB would have produced more with the same cast?


Yes. I do.
RE: RE: We scored 10 points  
NYSports1 : 12/10/2017 4:17 pm : link
In comment 13733647 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13733637 Thunderstruck27 said:


Quote:


Is there an argument?



You think we scored 10 points because of Eli? You think another QB would have produced more with the same cast?


Geno who sucks led them to 17 on the road vs a better defense
RE: QB play is determined by the amount of points you lead to  
crick n NC : 12/10/2017 4:18 pm : link
In comment 13733673 NYSports1 said:
Quote:
10 points at home vs average defense and zero in second half. That is all that needs to be said.


Great example of lazy analysis
He was ok.  
81_Great_Dane : 12/10/2017 4:20 pm : link
He was pretty good in the short passing game. Too many drops to really gauge him. Nothing much downfield other than the one pass to Engram.

Honestly, Eli isn't very good right now but I'm not sure any QB in the league could make chicken salad from the chickenshit around him.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/10/2017 4:21 pm : link
He missed Ellison in the 2nd(?) I think - the play where we had double trips and Ellison was wide open. Also threw behind Engram.

But overall - his WR's let him down more than anything. Some bad drops. Shep, Lewis.. couple of passes that should have been caught.

Look, to me - I think Eli is still capable if you can protect him and he's got Beckham back and you can run the ball.

He did miss a couple today - but his WR's also let him down. The first INT wasn't really his fault, either.

I still think you've got to take QB in this draft - but if starting Eli down the stretch here repairs that bridge and keeps the door open for him to be a part of our plans next year, it's probably worth it.

I think there were 3 major things that led to the disaster that this season was.. and I've said this many times...

1) McAdoo was a terrible playcaller
2) The staff failed to recognize the best OL configuration in camp
3) Injuries... Beckham especially.
yes  
giantfan2000 : 12/10/2017 4:21 pm : link
Quote:
Geno who sucks led them to 17 on the road vs a better defense


THIS
Britt  
Bluesbreaker : 12/10/2017 4:23 pm : link
there is a whole lot of stupid on these threads period .
while the game was tied in the 2nd half we had two 3rd down drops and a non PI call that stalled drives .
Cowboys sat back in coverage then entire game there was
few times when Eli could throw downfield .
The WR's rarely get separation as for the defense there
undermanned and they have Zero pass rush .
Can't wait untill they burn MacHandleys Denny's menu and
get back to Giants football strong run game with play action that gets on top early and allows the defense to tee
off and take chances early .
For the Money  
OC1973 : 12/10/2017 4:23 pm : link
We are paying out at the QB position compared to the production we are getting is a rip off and anyone who doesn't think so has there ELI BLINDERS on. Go look at other QBs that make the same. Time for ELI to take huge pay cut so we can protect him or move on.
He wasn't terrible  
B in ALB : 12/10/2017 4:25 pm : link
And he really doesn't have much help. There were some really key drops on big downs. And I thought he was changing the pocket really well.

The two INTs were in garbage time and he did miss on some easy throws.

I would say he was very average.
A drink and dunk offense  
ajr2456 : 12/10/2017 4:26 pm : link
Doesnt prove anything for either side of the "Is Eli Done?" argument
He didnt look downfield enough?  
mfsd : 12/10/2017 4:27 pm : link
With 2 outside WRs who belong on the practice squad?

Overall, he was better today than a lot of games this season. Not great, but very good. The drops were brutal.

But the criticisms of him that some of you guys invent are absurd.
once again  
giantfan2000 : 12/10/2017 4:27 pm : link
compare Eli last two games to Geno's one game
a game where they was a media circus and Geno had not played a snap all year
Even with two fumbles .. Geno played better than Eli..

Yes Britt, he was bad  
NYG07 : 12/10/2017 4:27 pm : link
I have battled all season long with you on this. Stop making excuses for him. If he needs everything to be perfect then he will never again have success on this team.
Eli showed that he is the worst QB...  
BamaBlue : 12/10/2017 4:28 pm : link
in the NFCE.
Webb would have put up more than 10 points  
Jimmy Googs : 12/10/2017 4:29 pm : link
easy...
.  
arcarsenal : 12/10/2017 4:29 pm : link
Eli is difficult to evaluate right now - he's at his best when he can use play action and throw vertically. We can't do that with this line and these WR's. We have no vertical threat nor do we have good pass pro.

Run game wasn't bad and hasn't been bad - so there's that. But the other elements Eli needs to succeed just aren't there now.

Bottom line is that this team just isn't scoring points.
He wasnt bad  
jeff57 : 12/10/2017 4:31 pm : link
But he was no better than Geno Smith last week.
With  
mitch300 : 12/10/2017 4:32 pm : link
The conservative play calling no, you of thought Webb was playing. What did they have 90 seconds with the ball in the 2nd quarter and they run the ball.
I do not feel Eli is done as a qb who can win  
NYSports1 : 12/10/2017 4:32 pm : link
with a cast of excellent players. But he offers nothing to this current Giants team. Geno sucks and offered a bit more and he also needs to not see the field. We need to start Webb the last 3 games to see if he has anything..He does not have to be great, he has to just show he has NFL intangibles that the Giants can use for a trade or to draft a non qb if they are not sure about the qbs coming out.

Webb deserves a shot to start a few games.
hmmmmm  
giantfan2000 : 12/10/2017 4:33 pm : link
Quote:
Eli is difficult to evaluate right now


we can evaluate Eli because last week Geno played
with same players

Geno thew the ball downfield much more than Eli
Geno extended plays . he got the ball to our play makers better
and scored more points than Eli

please stop making excuses .. Eli is not good these days..
Nope  
Route 9 : 12/10/2017 4:33 pm : link
Drops. A few missed throws but...it happens.
Pretty sure Eli isn't the problem  
81_Great_Dane : 12/10/2017 4:34 pm : link
But I'm 100% certain he's not the solution. The O needs a major rebuild, and that means a new QB because by the time it's rebuilt Eli will be about done. He may be about done now, but it's hard to be sure.
RE: Pretty sure Eli isn't the problem  
Jimmy Googs : 12/10/2017 4:34 pm : link
In comment 13733771 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
But I'm 100% certain he's not the solution.


this is perfectly said...
Eli played fine. Not great but not bad either.  
Giant John : 12/10/2017 4:35 pm : link
Defense sucked and so did the offense. Face it. The team has crap for talent.
RE: For the Money  
tony71 : 12/10/2017 4:36 pm : link
In comment 13733717 OC1973 said:
Quote:
We are paying out at the QB position compared to the production we are getting is a rip off and anyone who doesn't think so has there ELI BLINDERS on. Go look at other QBs that make the same. Time for ELI to take huge pay cut so we can protect him or move on.


Other QBs arnt playing with practice squad receivers, with most of their best starting players out for the season, with a defense thats falling apart.. I swear people bitch about what Eli gets paid but have you seen how many drops, and fumbles there was today? Pretty sure Eli didnt throw it to himself and fuck up. Im not saying he isnt without faults but jesus he played a solid game, and 95% of the issues today wasnt on him. But hey im sure another QB coulda came in a wished the balls in the endzone with the same players we got now.
How many throws did Dak miss?  
oldutican : 12/10/2017 4:37 pm : link
Eli loyalists set such a low bar. Every game he fails to make a few easy throws that an NFL qb has to make. To answer my question I dont recall any easy throws Dak missed.
sorry  
giantfan2000 : 12/10/2017 4:38 pm : link
here is the fact
Giants fans would have crucified Geno if he put up the same performance as Eli did today ..

it is just amazing how blinded Giants fans are about Eli ..
RE: RE: For the Money  
ajr2456 : 12/10/2017 4:41 pm : link
In comment 13733781 tony71 said:
Quote:
In comment 13733717 OC1973 said:


Quote:


We are paying out at the QB position compared to the production we are getting is a rip off and anyone who doesn't think so has there ELI BLINDERS on. Go look at other QBs that make the same. Time for ELI to take huge pay cut so we can protect him or move on.



Other QBs arnt playing with practice squad receivers, with most of their best starting players out for the season, with a defense thats falling apart.. I swear people bitch about what Eli gets paid but have you seen how many drops, and fumbles there was today? Pretty sure Eli didnt throw it to himself and fuck up. Im not saying he isnt without faults but jesus he played a solid game, and 95% of the issues today wasnt on him. But hey im sure another QB coulda came in a wished the balls in the endzone with the same players we got now.


Last year everyone was healthy and they couldn't score.
.  
Danny Kanell : 12/10/2017 4:45 pm : link
Im as pro Eli as you can be and I think he was ok today but my Lord, Britt is almost entering complete ignore territory when it comes to Eli. We get it. Jesus Christ. Enough. What are you trying to prove at this point?
RE: hmmmmm  
arcarsenal : 12/10/2017 4:45 pm : link
In comment 13733765 giantfan2000 said:
Quote:


Quote:


Eli is difficult to evaluate right now



we can evaluate Eli because last week Geno played
with same players

Geno thew the ball downfield much more than Eli
Geno extended plays . he got the ball to our play makers better
and scored more points than Eli

please stop making excuses .. Eli is not good these days..


I'd love to see a list of QB's who are succeeding with an offensive line that doesn't pass protect well and has guys like Roger Lewis and Darius Powe playing on the outside.

Like I said - it's very hard to evaluate Eli right now. It's not excuse making. I still think they should draft their guy in April. But the next guy won't be a whole lot better if this is what he has to work with.
he's not bad  
fkap : 12/10/2017 4:48 pm : link
but he's also not good. JAG is too harsh, but he's closer to that than elite.

Does the team get better if you keep Geno, or some other JAG, and spend cut Eli savings on other players? or do you just spend the money and hold on to Eli one more year? Either way, the starting QB is not dragging the team to victory on his back.
With a top QB draft pick, would it be right to put Eli through that season long debacle clamoring for a change every time we lose)? It's easy to say 'keep Eli as a mentor', but the shit show of last week very well may be childs play compared to what we could see next year.

Eli is not elite (any more), nor is he washed up. The true debate is where in the middle he lies and whether he should be brought back.
Playing Eli is the same as starting this thread  
Jimmy Googs : 12/10/2017 4:49 pm : link
they both have no value...
.  
arcarsenal : 12/10/2017 4:49 pm : link
I also don't necessarily agree that the offense needs a "major rebuild"

If they hit on an offensive lineman early in the draft and add one more guy in FA, I think they can fix the line quickly.

They looked pretty good before Fluker and Pugh got hurt. Bring Fluker back.

Healthy Beckham makes a huge difference. Engram is the real deal. Ellison is good. Gallman can be a part of the future.

Proper management can have this offense playing well as soon as next year.
lol  
Default : 12/10/2017 4:50 pm : link
pathetic
Dallas had plenty of drops  
xman : 12/10/2017 4:58 pm : link
too but did manage a few more points.

He was terrible please play Webb  
arniefez : 12/10/2017 5:01 pm : link
that will help a lot.
This offense can't score 20 points....  
Doomster : 12/10/2017 5:04 pm : link
What's the use? Put Webb out there and get his feet wet.....it's embarrassing watching Eli dink and dunk out there, week after week...

Sullivan's play calling sucks...

Second and one, Eli is in shotgun, and hands off to Gallman?

WTF? That was the time for play action and taking a shot downfield.....
Nothing's changed the fact  
Powerclean765 : 12/10/2017 5:08 pm : link
that he's still playing in an offense that is the worst possible fit for his skillset, too.

Bring back an "East Coast Offense" looking for chunk plays, with management and coaches on the same page and you've got a QB. If you want a mobile dink and dunk guy, it's not Eli.
Eli was a whole lot of meh  
JerseyCityJoe : 12/10/2017 5:09 pm : link
Which he has been for too long now.
The only good thing about today...  
bw in dc : 12/10/2017 5:15 pm : link
were the uniforms. They were so refreshing and reminded me of Jints Camelot - most of the '80s and early '90s.

As for Eli, he was ordinary. He doesn't have the physical raw skills to lift up the play of other around him. On the other hand, the players around him have C level skills and they are being taught C level strategy.
It doesn't matter  
AcesUp : 12/10/2017 5:18 pm : link
He's going to be 37 and QB'd this team to a top 3 draft pick. Anybody with half a brain will concede that he's pissing into the wind with this roster but there isn't really much to discuss. I think there's merit to the argument that he doesn't offer much more tangible value than any other bridge QB. There are intangibles of course, but I don't see this roster being close enough to capitalize on those intangibles. Almost all of his future with this team is dependent on other factors than what he brings on the field.
Like a broken record  
hassan : 12/10/2017 5:31 pm : link
from Britt at this point. Who is not a bad guy and is certainly above some of the stupidity I am seeing on these threads. But give it a break already.

This is the main problem with the Giants blunder this week. We are going to now have another outrage when they move on from Eli this offseason potentially. Instead of moving forward we will honor the past.

Might as well make next season like the Kobe Bryant final year: we are going to suck but pay homage to #10!
Eli was not bad today...  
EricJ : 12/10/2017 5:31 pm : link
but he is also no longer a QB that will take you through the playoffs and to the superbowl. Why? At some point he will need to be outstanding during that stretch and I just dont see it anymore.
Eli can't move the ball  
Vanzetti : 12/10/2017 5:34 pm : link
Anyone who would cite this game as evidence that Eli "still has it" or is not part of the problem is just so blind that it is pointless to discuss the subject.

It's like Rangers' fans who blindly insist Henrik is still the same.

I truly dont think it makes any difference  
LatHarv83 : 12/10/2017 5:39 pm : link
If we start Eli or Geno. And thats sad. Id have a hard time buying wed be any worse than 2-12 with Geno either.
Britt  
BigBlueShock : 12/10/2017 5:40 pm : link
Seriously, what is the point of this thread? So people will flock here to criticize Eli and you can huff and puff and tell them how stupid they are.

For fucks sake, man. Youre losing your mind and becoming a top 3 worst poster on this board. Just brutal. Im embarrassed for you, really. You should seek counseling because whats going on with you isnt normal.
The Giants are averaging like 12 ppg  
LatHarv83 : 12/10/2017 5:42 pm : link
In the games Eli has started without Beckham this year.
Britt  
BigBlueShock : 12/10/2017 5:44 pm : link
Is having one of BBIs all time worst mental breakdowns right before our eyes. Im legitimately concerned for him. I hope Eli has already filed an order of protection against him because this shit is bordering on Fatal Attraction levels.
argghhhh  
giantfan2000 : 12/10/2017 5:45 pm : link
Eli was 31-46 with 228 yards, 1 TD, 2 picks, generates 10 points, overthrew like crazy, and last week people on this board really thought Geno is a bad QB
Britt is a legitimately weird dude  
Overseer : 12/10/2017 5:46 pm : link
This isn't his first "rush to BBI after a Giants loss to defend Eli" thread. He did it after the Eagles loss and called the board "idiots" in a fairly unhinged manner.

He's become a caricature on BBI. Same embarrassing path that dep went down.

Eli is a shell of his former excellent self. Enjoy his meaningless Swan song and look forward to 2018.
I don't understand the criticism of my post.  
Britt in VA : 12/10/2017 6:03 pm : link
It's a legitimate question.

Also, I rushed to BBI to post this? I posted on the game thread throughout the game. I posted on BBI throughout the morning. It's all right there for anybody to see.

I don't understand the personal attacks. I haven't posted anything that warrants them.
...  
Dodge : 12/10/2017 6:03 pm : link
Eli threw high on that Lewis screen.

Shitty through. Also missed players all day. Thought he played mediocre. Couldn't lead WRs at all.
RE: .  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 12/10/2017 6:07 pm : link
In comment 13733826 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
Im as pro Eli as you can be and I think he was ok today but my Lord, Britt is almost entering complete ignore territory when it comes to Eli. We get it. Jesus Christ. Enough. What are you trying to prove at this point?


Amen to this post!
Agree. Not sure why the personal attacks of Britt either  
Jimmy Googs : 12/10/2017 6:11 pm : link
he at least defends his position and is consistent doing so.

Shock was just a battered child... :-)

The thread is not useful  
hassan : 12/10/2017 6:16 pm : link
you full well know what is going to happen. The pro Eli crowd will see a good to great player that is surrounded by crap.

The anti Eli crowd will rip him for 10 point outing.

The realists will see he did some decent things but he also misplaced plenty of balls and forced a few picks.

Its too bad the Giants were so dumb to commit this error, they could have moved on cleanly and now the howls are awaiting..........

one thing is clear  
UESBLUE : 12/10/2017 6:24 pm : link
Eli is not getting any younger. Time to get a franchise QB. Like he was once too.
RE: Agree. Not sure why the personal attacks of Britt either  
BigBlueShock : 12/10/2017 6:35 pm : link
In comment 13734042 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
he at least defends his position and is consistent doing so.

Shock was just a battered child... :-)

Hey now, thats a reach...
RE: Like a broken record  
Dave in Hoboken : 12/10/2017 6:40 pm : link
In comment 13733937 hassan said:
Quote:
from Britt at this point. Who is not a bad guy and is certainly above some of the stupidity I am seeing on these threads. But give it a break already.

This is the main problem with the Giants blunder this week. We are going to now have another outrage when they move on from Eli this offseason potentially. Instead of moving forward we will honor the past.

Might as well make next season like the Kobe Bryant final year: we are going to suck but pay homage to #10!


I don't think there will be another outrage the next time Eli is benched (permanently). The Giants fired the coach and GM who made the decision, and they put Eli right back in there, and the offense still looked completely impotent out there against a mediocre Cowboys defense, at home, and we lost to them. The fans will see the Giants righted their wrong, but it's just time to move on; add onto that one of top picks in the draft.

They're going in that direction whether the fans like it or not now. They threw the fans their bone due to how terribly the Eli situation was mishandled. That was then. There's no turning back now.
He put up 10 pts.  
Modus Operandi : 12/10/2017 6:41 pm : link
Just stop it already.
This thread reminded me of one of your previous winners  
Overseer : 12/10/2017 7:10 pm : link
post Eagles loss:

Quote:
So is Eli still done....

Britt in VA : 10/1/2017 7:19 pm
You idiots? Or are you finally willing to concede the complete organizational failure? Eli put the team on his back today.... Drops, horrible tackling, a 15 yard punt....

Tell me all about 11-5 again. I love that story.

Yeah, keep blaming Eli you fucking idiots. Run him out of town. You deserve the next guy, just like you deserve McAdoo.

But you're correct today's is a milder version. It's just hard to read it without being reminded of your (recent) posting history which you either

A) like to conveniently forget or
B) have convinced yourself is a positive contribution to the board

Whatever dude....  
Britt in VA : 12/10/2017 7:13 pm : link
I'm the worst poster on the board?

Mentally unstable?

Okay, dude.... Keep telling yourself you're the rational one.
I believe BigBlueShock (if that's to whom you're responding)  
Overseer : 12/10/2017 7:23 pm : link
opined that you're "a top 3 worst poster", not necessarily the "worst".

In other words, there's still further for you to slide.
RE: Whatever dude....  
Sarcastic Sam : 12/10/2017 7:38 pm : link
In comment 13734227 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
I'm the worst poster on the board?

Mentally unstable?

Okay, dude.... Keep telling yourself you're the rational one.


Yeah, seriously. Who do I have to sleep with to get noticed around here?
RE: RE: Whatever dude....  
BigBlueShock : 12/10/2017 7:47 pm : link
In comment 13734306 Sarcastic Sam said:
Quote:
In comment 13734227 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


I'm the worst poster on the board?

Mentally unstable?

Okay, dude.... Keep telling yourself you're the rational one.



Yeah, seriously. Who do I have to sleep with to get noticed around here?

Elis taken, so maybe give Snacks a whirl?
.  
arcarsenal : 12/10/2017 7:52 pm : link
Meh, I've disagreed with Britt on a billion things over the last however many years - but he's not even close to a "bad" poster.

Dave in Hoboken  
hassan : 12/10/2017 7:55 pm : link
I don't know about that. I don't care if the fans whine though. The fans are not the people who run the team. There are no sacred cows.

He was okay  
exiled : 12/10/2017 8:01 pm : link
Team just flat-out sucks. He cannot (as Gisele so eloquently put it after SB 46, talking about Tom Brady) throw the ball and catch the ball.
RE: Britt is a legitimately weird dude  
hitdog42 : 12/10/2017 8:02 pm : link
In comment 13733971 Overseer said:
Quote:
This isn't his first "rush to BBI after a Giants loss to defend Eli" thread. He did it after the Eagles loss and called the board "idiots" in a fairly unhinged manner.

He's become a caricature on BBI. Same embarrassing path that dep went down.

Eli is a shell of his former excellent self. Enjoy his meaningless Swan song and look forward to 2018.


Well said on all fronts
RE: RE: Agree. Not sure why the personal attacks of Britt either  
Jimmy Googs : 12/10/2017 8:04 pm : link
In comment 13734117 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13734042 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


he at least defends his position and is consistent doing so.

Shock was just a battered child... :-)



Hey now, thats a reach...


you know I love that...
Britt  
hassan : 12/10/2017 8:04 pm : link
Is no bad poster but maybe most annoying about Eli is a better fit. But he is clearly a decent guy so don't get the hostility.

The fixation has gotten to dep territory yes. But I don't see Britt attacking people like Dep.

And Btw. While no all star squad, engram Shepard and Vereen are not awful either.how many great weapons does la Rams or philly have? Seattle?
RE: .  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 12/10/2017 8:06 pm : link
In comment 13734345 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Meh, I've disagreed with Britt on a billion things over the last however many years - but he's not even close to a "bad" poster.


Agree, that he is not a bad poster, but he has to be the biggest asshole on this board. He must have naked pictures of Eric somewhere, because some of the abuse he dishes out is bannable in my eyes. Im pretty sure hes good friends Eric outside the board, so its always brushed over.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/10/2017 8:12 pm : link
LOL, I mean - I don't think he's an asshole either. I haven't seen him post aggressive personal attacks towards people who disagree with him.

He's dug in hard on Eli and a bit stubborn - not an asshole, though.

I think Eli is at a point now where you won't really win with him unless everything else is in place. I don't fault him for this mess - but the more time passes, the more I think you're going to need to put around him to succeed.

This is definitely the right time to draft a QB. We can't look at Eli as a solution, but I wouldn't be against him grooming whoever we draft.
Really...Eli is done?  
Jimmy Googs : 12/10/2017 8:15 pm : link
shocking revelation...
RE: I just don't understand what some people are watching....  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/10/2017 8:18 pm : link
In comment 13733667 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
or what their expectations are.

Starting to reach dep levels on this.

Eli was great for this team. He'll always be a Giants legend. But the end is approaching quickly. He'll be 37 in three weeks whether you want to accept that or not.
Haha, I'm good friends with Eric off the board?  
Britt in VA : 12/10/2017 8:19 pm : link
I met Eric once in Albany 13 years ago. Don't have any outside correspondence with him, and don't even talk to him ON the forum.

The sh-t you read here....
Just curious....  
Tesla : 12/10/2017 8:21 pm : link
but how come bad throws and INT's don't count when we are already losing?

Eli made a couple of good throws today and a few awful ones too. My biggest criticism at this point is that he's turned into Checkdown Charlie....90% of his passes are 5 yds or less. Is that him or the game plan? Who knows at this point.

It really is impossible to evaluate him fairly with this OL and these receivers though. But I don't see how you can say he played well either.
The funny thing is I've said I want to draft Eli's replacement....  
Britt in VA : 12/10/2017 8:21 pm : link
in the first round over, and over, and over again over the past couple of weeks.

It's not like I've advocated playing Eli until he's 50, like many here would imply.

Finally, this has mainly about respect, and the lack of it given to a Giants legend as his career winds down.

What we have here is akin to spitting on the guy on his way out the door.
RE: The funny thing is I've said I want to draft Eli's replacement....  
Jimmy Googs : 12/10/2017 8:23 pm : link
In comment 13734460 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
in the first round over, and over, and over again over the past couple of weeks.

It's not like I've advocated playing Eli until he's 50, like many here would imply.

Finally, this has mainly about respect, and the lack of it given to a Giants legend as his career winds down.

What we have here is akin to spitting on the guy on his way out the door.


Don't leave the site...we forgive you.
I wish my employer  
Modus Operandi : 12/10/2017 9:19 pm : link
Would spit on me while paying me $20M a year.
I'm not talking about his employer....  
Britt in VA : 12/10/2017 9:19 pm : link
I'm talking about the fans, specifically on this board.
RE: I'm not talking about his employer....  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/10/2017 10:25 pm : link
In comment 13734577 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
I'm talking about the fans, specifically on this board.

Britt,

With all due respect, do you not see that you bring some of that out in response to your blind loyalty to Eli and the repeated callout threads? People get frustrated/aggravated with your angle and it comes across as what you deem as spitting on Eli.

There's also the reality that no amount of loyalty makes 2007 or 2011 a current reality. A lot of people focus on the present and future more so than the past. You seem to choose a different perspective. More power to you - you have every right to enjoy the Giants however you'd like. What you don't have, however, is the right to tell anyone else how they should be a fan.

People aren't idiots for feeling that Eli is in decline; they just feel differently than you do. And it's probably not all that productive to start these threads immediately after games end which you must be able to predict will turn into a series of arguments. But you do have the right to be a fan however you choose.
I love Eli  
mattyblue : 12/10/2017 11:06 pm : link
got disgusted by the manner they benched him. However, Eli isnt LT, he isnt Jeter, he is completely mediocre. Yes he threw two passes that will always be in incredible to me, but the rest of his career was very average, and average is incredible. He played his heart out for the Giants and he made himself a shit ton of money doing so.

Currently Eli is below average. If you actually believe he belongs in the Brady, Peyton, Rodgers type of category then homerism and just plain stupidity runs through you.

Why not like the guy and understand its time to move along. How much money did this dude make? 250 million? Am I a lesser Giants fan for saying so long and thanks for all the fish?

Its ok that Eli goes elsewhere if he wants to. His time is limited and he has never been a game changer but I will look back positively on his years here.
RE: I'm not talking about his employer....  
Modus Operandi : 12/10/2017 11:09 pm : link
In comment 13734577 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
I'm talking about the fans, specifically on this board.


Admitting that the guy is reaching the end isn't spitting or a sign of disrespect. I like you Britt. But you're reaching John Jerry troll status.
He wasn't bad but let's keep playing him?  
KWALL2 : 12/10/2017 11:23 pm : link
That's a solid plan for a 2 win team with an old WB.

Oh...he also missed some easy throws.
...  
christian : 12/11/2017 2:11 am : link
It's a beat up, bad team. With plenty of bad play at QB.

I like and think Britt has been a decent poster over the years. But these threads are tantamount to trolling. It's intended to get a certain reaction then get upset when given the reaction.

There's no productive point.
What sucks about watching Eli now  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/11/2017 8:19 am : link
is that he kind of "ducks" or pulls up and preps for impact after every throw. Doesn't matter if pressure is there or not, he pulls up like he's going to get hit. I can't blame the guy, the OL is terrible just kind of sad to see that he's now innately doing it. Definitely affects some throws. I think Cosell spoke about this and as I was watching the game, he seemed to do it every throw.
RE: What sucks about watching Eli now  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 8:23 am : link
In comment 13734952 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
is that he kind of "ducks" or pulls up and preps for impact after every throw. Doesn't matter if pressure is there or not, he pulls up like he's going to get hit. I can't blame the guy, the OL is terrible just kind of sad to see that he's now innately doing it. Definitely affects some throws. I think Cosell spoke about this and as I was watching the game, he seemed to do it every throw.


That's exactly right, and what both Cossell and Gilbride said last week applied perfectly to what I watched yesterday.

You see a guy that's making all the right reads, and making the right throws. Not a loss of arm strength. Hasn't lost anything on the mental side.
?  
Dodge : 12/11/2017 8:25 am : link
I think that view is a load of bullshit. He's definitely missing reads and making terrible throws.
And this is not tantamount to trolling....  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 8:26 am : link
It's a legitimate question carried over from the game thread.

Well I disagree....  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 8:29 am : link
I thought he was on point yesterday, until the game got out of hand and he started forcing it by just chucking it up to try and make a play.

At halftime, he was 13/15 and a TD for a 119 QBR, higher than he's had in any game when Ben McAdoo was coach.

He doesn't have anything around him. Nothing.

You watch, they're going to put a team around him next year, and we'll revisit these discussions.
If this team had just about any other top 50 current QB  
LatHarv83 : 12/11/2017 8:41 am : link
Would we actually be any worse than 2-11? I dont think so. Im honestly
Not sure Geno is top 50 and I think wed be about the same with him too, especially since neither of our wins were pass reliant anyway

Honestly at this point in Elis career he is no more impactful than any ole warm body
well  
giantfan2000 : 12/11/2017 8:49 am : link
First I don't mind this thread Britt started . he was being provocative to initiate a discussion-- seems like he was successful ! it is a Giant's discussion board for christ sake!! Everyone is entitled to their opinions no need to attack people for making BBI a bit lively

but... I have to respectfully disagree

Quote:
I thought he was on point yesterday, until the game got out of hand and he started forcing it by just chucking it up to try and make a play.


Eli last 11 Giants possessions 9 punts and 2 INT... in second half the offense did what it always does this year .. it is unable to extend drives and get points .

Eventually the defense collapses in spectacular fashion and we get blown out.



RE: well  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 8:53 am : link
In comment 13734983 giantfan2000 said:
Quote:
First I don't mind this thread Britt started . he was being provocative to initiate a discussion-- seems like he was successful ! it is a Giant's discussion board for christ sake!! Everyone is entitled to their opinions no need to attack people for making BBI a bit lively

but... I have to respectfully disagree



Quote:


I thought he was on point yesterday, until the game got out of hand and he started forcing it by just chucking it up to try and make a play.



Eli last 11 Giants possessions 9 punts and 2 INT... in second half the offense did what it always does this year .. it is unable to extend drives and get points .

Eventually the defense collapses in spectacular fashion and we get blown out.




And at least three or four drives were killed by awful dropped passes on third down that were on the money, would you agree with that?
And I believe one or two of those drives....  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 8:54 am : link
were immediately before the Cowboys blew us open, when the game was still 10-10.
We are averaging 12 ppg without Beckham  
LatHarv83 : 12/11/2017 8:54 am : link
Thats just astounding. We even managed 17 with Geno and thats with him leaving points ob the field with a couple key fumbles. Eli defenders can talk about his support all they want he has not done jack
Squat to elevate anything. Literally 60 current QBs in the nfl can probably match what hes done for us this season
RE: Well I disagree....  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 12/11/2017 8:59 am : link
In comment 13734965 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
I thought he was on point yesterday, until the game got out of hand and he started forcing it by just chucking it up to try and make a play.

At halftime, he was 13/15 and a TD for a 119 QBR, higher than he's had in any game when Ben McAdoo was coach.

He doesn't have anything around him. Nothing.

You watch, they're going to put a team around him next year, and we'll revisit these discussions.


That team will be the Jacksonville Jaguars. No chance he is with the Giants, unless he wants to take a real beating for the rest of his career.

Oh and that bonus you think they will give him to make up for the benching... not happening at all. He is getting cut or traded before the league New Year. Especially if Gettleman is the guy taking over.
Speculation stated as fact.....  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 9:07 am : link
Guess we'll see.
RE: Speculation stated as fact.....  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/11/2017 9:14 am : link
In comment 13735011 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Guess we'll see.

Speculation stated as fact goes both ways though, no?
Quote:
You watch, they're going to put a team around him next year, and we'll revisit these discussions.
What did I state as definitive fact?  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 9:16 am : link
That is a lot more open to interpretation than a direct statement that Eli's career is done with the Giants, and that they will either cut or trade him.
He did as well as well as he could (or any QB could for that matter)  
Bill L : 12/11/2017 9:16 am : link
given the circumstances of the team. But, even mentioning Eli wrt yesterday is silly, IMO. He was a non-entity with respect to the loss. That's all defense.
The truth is that our team is physically and mentally broken  
PatersonPlank : 12/11/2017 9:19 am : link
(thank you McAdoo). At this point in Eli's career, just like Big Ben and Rivers, if surrounded by a fairly good and stable team he can play at a good level (better than a lot). If a team needs a guy to read the defenses, get them in position to be successful, and make quality throws given normal time, and has a complete offense with some semblance of a running game, Eli would be a good fit (again like Pitts and SD have). Thats not what we have. In our offense very all QB's will likely look the same. What we really need is a guy who can run around for his life either getting away from the rush, or waiting for his practice squad WR's to finally get open. This is more important to us than things like reading and fooling defenses. The offense is in shambles. Could Geno do as well as Eli, probably because most QB's would all look the same (not good).

We need to get our WR's healthy again (ie getting back OBJ which is critical), find a RB, and rebuild the OL. If this can be done over the summer then Eli can stay and be a good bridge to either Webb or a draft choice. If its going to be a longer rebuild, then we are better off just throwing a kid into the fire, or bringing in a career backup (like Geno) to take the blows until we are ready with Webb/Draft choice.
He did as well as any qb could?  
LatHarv83 : 12/11/2017 9:20 am : link
You really dont think any qb in the nfl is capable of more than Eli has given us this year? Am I understanding you right?

Id say I couldnt disagree more. Id say most nfl backups could have the Giants at 2-11 as well and similarly help lead a 12 ppg offense without Beckham. Its one thing to concede the talent around him is lacking, but its also undeniable that he hasnt done a thing to elevate the team or maximize its ceiling, even though its not a high ceiling
RE: He did as well as any qb could?  
Bill L : 12/11/2017 9:21 am : link
In comment 13735041 LatHarv83 said:
Quote:
You really dont think any qb in the nfl is capable of more than Eli has given us this year? Am I understanding you right?

Id say I couldnt disagree more. Id say most nfl backups could have the Giants at 2-11 as well and similarly help lead a 12 ppg offense without Beckham. Its one thing to concede the talent around him is lacking, but its also undeniable that he hasnt done a thing to elevate the team or maximize its ceiling, even though its not a high ceiling
I thought that we were talking about yesterday. Although I do think it also applies to most of the games this year.
We just started Geno smith  
LatHarv83 : 12/11/2017 9:22 am : link
And our offense was as good or better as its been with Ei at just about any point since we lost Beckham
Britt  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 9:22 am : link
I love Eli. I think he should be a HoFer. I have spent a ton of time thinking about this and watching. I have been using the Eye test every week to compare to the opposing QB. I compared him to Geno last week. He fails the comparison every week. He was played worse games than Geno did and geno has not started for a while or got a bunch of practice. it stands to reason Geno might have gottten better with another start. I AM NOT CALLING FOR GENO. Eli's strength has always been his Cabeza. This system is about timing and touch. Those short throws need to be beautiful and in stride for YAC. Eli could be our QB for the next few years and I think we could make a run, IF, We reinstall our old system need our old system and find a dominant OL. Maybe he goes to ownership and says I'm not playing like a 20 million dollar QB, take half and get some player(not happening) Coughlin/Gilbride tailored that thing to him. The rest of the talent on the roster doesn't match that kind of system at all anymore. It sucks, it hurts. I am a loyal guy but... it's over.
First Drive of the Game:  
Jimmy Googs : 12/11/2017 9:26 am : link
after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.

Perfect example of why its over for him...

RE: First Drive of the Game:  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 9:28 am : link
In comment 13735058 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.

Perfect example of why its over for him...


I don't understand how a coaching decision shows that it's over for him, but okay.
I don't know...  
Dan in the Springs : 12/11/2017 9:28 am : link
this is a complex game with a lot of complex parts...

I haven't rewatched the game yet so I can't say what contributed to the failures. My impression was that early on, the offense was fairly successful, and that Eli looked pretty good. When I say early on, I mean really early on, as in their first two or three possessions. What about the next 8 or 9, you know, when the game really mattered?

I see that the defense is being blamed again for this loss, which is fair given they allowed 29 points and should never, ever, ever, think this offense can get them 30.

But anyway, back to the original question, imo and without having watched it a second time yet, Eli played like a bottom third QB today. Was his game worthy of more competition-free guaranteed starts and $22MM/yr give or take?

I don't think so.

What happened to the Eli who comes up big in the clutch? I haven't seen him in a long time and I think it only fair to wonder if he still exists.

So your suggesting our 14-year 2 time SuperBowl MVP QB  
Jimmy Googs : 12/11/2017 9:30 am : link
cannot audible or change the play to take advantage of an opportunity? he doesn't have that authority?
RE: RE: Speculation stated as fact.....  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/11/2017 9:31 am : link
In comment 13735024 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13735011 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


Guess we'll see.


Speculation stated as fact goes both ways though, no?


Quote:


You watch, they're going to put a team around him next year, and we'll revisit these discussions.


And more of the same:

Quote:
Eli Manning will be the quarterback of the Giants next year....
Britt in VA : 10/14/2017 2:46 pm : link
Period. He may have a 1st overall pick sitting behind him, but he WILL be the starting quarterback barring catastrophic injury, week 1, 2018.

That's a fact, jack.
Link

Quote:
I'm not going to sit here and argue with people that have made
Britt in VA : 11/5/2017 2:50 pm : link
up their mind.

All I'm saying is we don't have a professional offense right now. Not the roster, not the playbook, not the coach. Nothing about our offense is good.

If you want to pin that all on one guy, go ahead. I don't agree, but I'm also done wasting my time arguing about it.

Here's the deal. Eli will be the starting QB for the Giants next year. He's not getting bench, Webb is likely not the future, and Eli, barring catastrophic injury, WILL BE THE STARTING QB OF THE NEW YORK GIANTS WEEK ONE OF 2018.

It's a lock.
Link
Missed a couple of throws (one was completed but way too high)  
Andy in Halifax : 12/11/2017 9:31 am : link
But his stats look quite a bit better had the 4 drops not happened. I could be wrong but at least 3 of the second half drops would have been first downs that ended up as a punt.

I think he's been pretty meh this year, no QB would look good with this talent in our offense, but I thought he did his job well enough yesterday outside of a couple throws.

He knows how to read a D as good or better than most QB's. I think he'd be a great mentor to whomever we select in round 1. It's definitely time though.
Okay, guilty....  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 9:32 am : link
Like I said, guess we'll see.
RE: What did I state as definitive fact?  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/11/2017 9:32 am : link
In comment 13735027 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
That is a lot more open to interpretation than a direct statement that Eli's career is done with the Giants, and that they will either cut or trade him.

I went ahead and linked some past examples for you. See above.
RE: Okay, guilty....  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/11/2017 9:33 am : link
In comment 13735080 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Like I said, guess we'll see.

I have to admit, you definitely are a good guy, Britt. I wish it wasn't so much fun to debate with you.

And that's a fact, jack.
RE: RE: Okay, guilty....  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 9:35 am : link
In comment 13735089 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13735080 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


Like I said, guess we'll see.


I have to admit, you definitely are a good guy, Britt. I wish it wasn't so much fun to debate with you.

And that's a fact, jack.


I guess I'll take "good guy" over "Eric's best friend", "mentally unhinged/unstable", and "top 3 worst poster on the board"....
'
Thanks.
It's not that he was bad,  
Section331 : 12/11/2017 9:37 am : link
it's that he wasn't good enough. Fair or not, with the lack of talent on the field, the QB is going to have to step up and make plays, and Eli didn't do that often enough. The drops hurt badly, but so did missing a wide open Ellison downfield early, or Vereen down the sideline late. We need a QB to make those plays, and I'm not sure Eli is that guy any more.
RE: RE: RE: Okay, guilty....  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/11/2017 9:37 am : link
In comment 13735096 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13735089 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13735080 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


Like I said, guess we'll see.


I have to admit, you definitely are a good guy, Britt. I wish it wasn't so much fun to debate with you.

And that's a fact, jack.



I guess I'll take "good guy" over "Eric's best friend", "mentally unhinged/unstable", and "top 3 worst poster on the board"....
'
Thanks.

It could always be worse. I had some idiot accuse me of being a Rocky/Cruzin dupe the other day.
I believe this but Im sure some will disagree vehemently  
LatHarv83 : 12/11/2017 9:39 am : link
The gap between Eli and someone like Geno Smith in 2017 is significantly smaller than the gap between the edge of the top 10-12 current qb class and Eli.
Not for nothing  
Bill L : 12/11/2017 9:41 am : link
but I read that Kyrie believes the earth is flat.
It's clear that there is a divide between what people see in regards  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 9:41 am : link
to Eli on this board, whether that's what people [/i]want[/i] to see (both ways) or whether they're understanding exactly what they're seeing.

I lean more towards what Kevin Gilbride and Greg Cossell see.
Ok then  
LatHarv83 : 12/11/2017 9:45 am : link
You believe what you want and cherry pick opinions who agree with you while we let the results speak for themselves. I just watched Geno play a game with this team and it looked just about no different than any game Ive seen Eli play without Beckham this year

Love Eli, but hes not doing anything whatsoever to elevate this team from the minimal offensive ceiling they may have. Its over
.  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 9:46 am : link
Quote:
Bob Papa‏Verified account
@BobPapa_NFL
4m4 minutes ago

According to @NFLMatchup @giants have dropped the highest % of passes in the NFL
RE: Ok then  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 9:47 am : link
In comment 13735138 LatHarv83 said:
Quote:
You believe what you want and cherry pick opinions who agree with you while we let the results speak for themselves. I just watched Geno play a game with this team and it looked just about no different than any game Ive seen Eli play without Beckham this year

Love Eli, but hes not doing anything whatsoever to elevate this team from the minimal offensive ceiling they may have. Its over


What opinions did I cherry pick? Kevin Gilbride and Greg Cossell?

What other opinions are out there, non fan, right now about Eli being in decline or not? Those interviews happened last week. How is that cherry picking?
RE: It's clear that there is a divide between what people see in regards  
Dan in the Springs : 12/11/2017 9:53 am : link
In comment 13735122 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
to Eli on this board, whether that's what people [/i]want[/i] to see (both ways) or whether they're understanding exactly what they're seeing.

I lean more towards what Kevin Gilbride and Greg Cossell see.


I'm with Cossell too. Didn't he say that Eli has become a guy who needs a near-perfect offense at this point, that he's incapable of lifting the team around him?

I believe, like Gilbride, Cossell and you, that Eli can still make all the throws. His occasional misses I can live with - all QB's have them. He does seem to be what a lot of young and talented QB's are - able to win games if he has a great system, talent at the skill positions, a running game, and enough time to make throws.

Is that what we're striving for on offense? Since we don't have that, we can't expect much more from Eli right now, correct?

What did we gain by playing Eli yesterday over giving playing time to Webb? I know some would argue that putting in a raw rookie in these conditions could stunt his long-term potential, but I also know you're not one of those posters as you've made it clear that Webb isn't going to be the long-term solution for the Giants anyway.

So what exactly did we gain with Eli yesterday?
RE: It's clear that there is a divide between what people see in regards  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/11/2017 9:54 am : link
In comment 13735122 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
to Eli on this board, whether that's what people want to see (both ways) or whether they're understanding exactly what they're seeing.

I lean more towards what Kevin Gilbride and Greg Cossell see.

What Greg Cosell sees isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for Eli though - it's entirely possible that he might struggle to correct his recent habit of pulling away from this throws. He has done it a number of times this season even when the pass pro has held up. And that will be the huge question facing the Giants: can Eli correct those bad habits at age 37 and is it worth it to gamble on his ability to do so?

One of the things that I've noted is that it actually may work in Eli's favor that the roster construction most likely to make him successful for one more season is also the same way a team probably should build around a rookie QB (strong OL, effective running game). And if Eli is willing to embrace being a mentor (no reason to believe he wouldn't) and understand that there is at least a possibility that the rookie or Webb could take his job as early as next season (much more of an open question, IMO), I think he could be back.

But the bigger question is, will he want to come back? If he sees an opportunity to join a team like Jacksonville that appears to be closer to a Super Bowl run, would he prefer that?

And I guess my question to you - purely out of curiosity and for the purposes of discussion - if the Giants did indicate a willingness to build a team around Eli one last time and he chose to request his release or trade anyway, how would that affect your feelings toward him? I wouldn't suggest that anyone should be any less grateful for his career, but would you feel at all betrayed that the loyalty that you've asked the Giants and their fans to feel for Eli might not be reciprocated?

Obviously that's a very specific hypothetical scenario.
RE: RE: It's clear that there is a divide between what people see in regards  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 9:56 am : link
In comment 13735166 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 13735122 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


to Eli on this board, whether that's what people [/i]want[/i] to see (both ways) or whether they're understanding exactly what they're seeing.

I lean more towards what Kevin Gilbride and Greg Cossell see.



I'm with Cossell too. Didn't he say that Eli has become a guy who needs a near-perfect offense at this point, that he's incapable of lifting the team around him?

I believe, like Gilbride, Cossell and you, that Eli can still make all the throws. His occasional misses I can live with - all QB's have them. He does seem to be what a lot of young and talented QB's are - able to win games if he has a great system, talent at the skill positions, a running game, and enough time to make throws.

Is that what we're striving for on offense? Since we don't have that, we can't expect much more from Eli right now, correct?

What did we gain by playing Eli yesterday over giving playing time to Webb? I know some would argue that putting in a raw rookie in these conditions could stunt his long-term potential, but I also know you're not one of those posters as you've made it clear that Webb isn't going to be the long-term solution for the Giants anyway.

So what exactly did we gain with Eli yesterday?


My counter to that is, what is any rookie QB, or anybody, going to come in and do with this situation?

If you don't have the pieces, you don't have the pieces.

There aren't many Aaron Rodgers out there, which is basically what we're talking about here.

What do all the young QB success stories have in common? Successful teams around them. Besides Aaron Rodgers, who regularly makes chicken salad out of chicken sh-t in the NFL?
Britt  
LatHarv83 : 12/11/2017 9:56 am : link
I expect Kevin gilbride to be just about as critical of Eli as Olivia Manning. Im not too familiar with Greg Cosell and Im not scouring the Internet looking for everyones opinion on Eli, I have to work over 50 hours a week lol. Im sure theres an opinion from someone somewhere that Eli is cooked, beyond of course his recently fired ex coach. But who cares? I dont really see the news to appeal to authority like that. We can all
Have our own opinions. I dont get how you can come off so dismissive that Eli could in fact just be washed. It happens to everyone
RE: Britt  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 9:57 am : link
In comment 13735178 LatHarv83 said:
Quote:
I expect Kevin gilbride to be just about as critical of Eli as Olivia Manning. Im not too familiar with Greg Cosell and Im not scouring the Internet looking for everyones opinion on Eli, I have to work over 50 hours a week lol. Im sure theres an opinion from someone somewhere that Eli is cooked, beyond of course his recently fired ex coach. But who cares? I dont really see the news to appeal to authority like that. We can all
Have our own opinions. I dont get how you can come off so dismissive that Eli could in fact just be washed. It happens to everyone


Cossell is one of the most respected tape guys in the NFL.

You didn't have to look hard for the interview, it was posted on BBI, which is where I saw it.
RE: RE: First Drive of the Game:  
Beezer : 12/11/2017 9:58 am : link
In comment 13735066 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13735058 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.

Perfect example of why its over for him...




I don't understand how a coaching decision shows that it's over for him, but okay.


OK ... I read a of of this thread, surprised that so many are debating whether or not Britt's a good guy, a troll, other things.

Of the handful of "good guys" on BBI, Britt's certainly in the mix. His love for Eli gets him hammered but I have no doubt it's legit. It's possible, maybe likely that his perspective is skewed by his emotional lean toward Manning (I suffer a similar disability), but it's nowhere near troll levels.

He's talked about a fan level of disrespect for 10 (agreed). He's talked about having more confidence in Eli than most (I see the warts, but can also see the team having success with the right moves made next off-season). He's talked about drafting a QB (I would like to know what we have in Webb first, but OK ... seems we may have 2 young QBs in-house soon enough.)

But holy hell. Three straight running plays is an indication that Eli's lost it? Damn ... that's nutty.
RE: RE: RE: It's clear that there is a divide between what people see in regards  
Dan in the Springs : 12/11/2017 9:59 am : link
In comment 13735174 Britt in VA said:
Quote:

My counter to that is, what is any rookie QB, or anybody, going to come in and do with this situation?


Ummm... learn and grow from the experience? What would be wrong with that?

Serious question - and no offense intended, but do you generally look backward in life or do you plan forward? I ask that because you seem to be influenced heavily on what was years ago and less concerned about what will be next year and beyond.
RE: RE: RE: RE: It's clear that there is a divide between what people see in regards  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 10:00 am : link
In comment 13735185 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 13735174 Britt in VA said:


Quote:



My counter to that is, what is any rookie QB, or anybody, going to come in and do with this situation?




Ummm... learn and grow from the experience? What would be wrong with that?

Serious question - and no offense intended, but do you generally look backward in life or do you plan forward? I ask that because you seem to be influenced heavily on what was years ago and less concerned about what will be next year and beyond.


I find it odd that you are trying to psycho analyze me based on posts on a football message board.

I've stated over and over and over again to draft a QB round one, this upcoming draft.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: It's clear that there is a divide between what people see in regards  
Dan in the Springs : 12/11/2017 10:02 am : link
In comment 13735188 Britt in VA said:
Quote:

I find it odd that you are trying to psycho analyze me based on posts on a football message board.

I've stated over and over and over again to draft a QB round one, this upcoming draft.


It's called having a discussion. I know you would draft someone next year, but am wondering why you are so opposed to the idea of playing someone other than Eli now? Not just anyone, but someone the Giants believed a few months back could eventually replace Eli?

You don't seem to answer the one question that most interests me. What did we gain from playing Eli yesterday?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: It's clear that there is a divide between what people see in regards  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 10:04 am : link
In comment 13735197 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 13735188 Britt in VA said:


Quote:



I find it odd that you are trying to psycho analyze me based on posts on a football message board.

I've stated over and over and over again to draft a QB round one, this upcoming draft.



It's called having a discussion. I know you would draft someone next year, but am wondering why you are so opposed to the idea of playing someone other than Eli now? Not just anyone, but someone the Giants believed a few months back could eventually replace Eli?

You don't seem to answer the one question that most interests me. What did we gain from playing Eli yesterday?


Nothing. But what is there to be gained in a 2-11 season anyway? If you're referring to Webb, I said in the other discussion on other threads, Webb is not ready. All indications point to that, or he would be out there. Dressed and active, at the very least. He's not.
playing eli gains nothing  
hitdog42 : 12/11/2017 10:06 am : link
playing Webb actually has some upside...

People can try and reverse engineer a reason to sit webb... the most pathetic being the dramatic.. HOW CAN WE LEARN ANYTHING WITH THIS OL AND WR.... ummmm he can learn a lot... he might suck... but he will still learn. and the bar is so low with an offense that scores 13 a game that its not like he will have some terrible stigma if he goes out and struggles.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: It's clear that there is a divide between what people see in regards  
Beezer : 12/11/2017 10:07 am : link
In comment 13735197 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 13735188 Britt in VA said:


Quote:



I find it odd that you are trying to psycho analyze me based on posts on a football message board.

I've stated over and over and over again to draft a QB round one, this upcoming draft.



It's called having a discussion. I know you would draft someone next year, but am wondering why you are so opposed to the idea of playing someone other than Eli now? Not just anyone, but someone the Giants believed a few months back could eventually replace Eli?

You don't seem to answer the one question that most interests me. What did we gain from playing Eli yesterday?


I'll try, Dan.

1. Another week for Webb to prep (assuming he will get game snaps).
2. Eli is a respected vet. There's zero to be gained from starting Geno Smith over him.
3. And, of course, the loss is of some value regarding the draft.

There are no great answers. But those are three.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: It's clear that there is a divide between what people see in regards  
Dan in the Springs : 12/11/2017 10:09 am : link
In comment 13735204 Britt in VA said:
Quote:

Nothing. But what is there to be gained in a 2-11 season anyway? If you're referring to Webb, I said in the other discussion on other threads, Webb is not ready. All indications point to that, or he would be out there. Dressed and active, at the very least. He's not.


This is what I and others have been arguing with you about for some time. Many of us have been unhappy that we decided to go back to Eli with nothing to gain right now, when at the least, a young QB who admittedly might not be ready could at the very least have a growth/learning experience.

The fact that he's not ready to play games at this point of the season is maddening to many of us. You have disparaged that feeling we've expressed and is the reason why I wanted you to admit that we gained nothing from Eli playing.

I'm interested in you Britt because I see you as a serious poster whose opinions I enjoy reading, not because I'm obsessed with you. I found it interesting that following a game where we gained nothing by playing Eli you came here nearly as soon as it ended to ask about how he played.

If it bothers you that I've spent time thinking about you then I apologize and I can easily remedy that. Hope you enjoy your holiday season.
RE: RE: RE: First Drive of the Game:  
Jimmy Googs : 12/11/2017 10:10 am : link
In comment 13735184 Beezer said:
Quote:


But holy hell. Three straight running plays is an indication that Eli's lost it? Damn ... that's nutty.


Did you think you were watching the last 2 minutes of tie-game in the SuperBowl?

your nutty...
RE: RE: RE: First Drive of the Game:  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 10:12 am : link
In comment 13735184 Beezer said:
Quote:
In comment 13735066 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 13735058 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.

Perfect example of why its over for him...




I don't understand how a coaching decision shows that it's over for him, but okay.



OK ... I read a of of this thread, surprised that so many are debating whether or not Britt's a good guy, a troll, other things.

Of the handful of "good guys" on BBI, Britt's certainly in the mix. His love for Eli gets him hammered but I have no doubt it's legit. It's possible, maybe likely that his perspective is skewed by his emotional lean toward Manning (I suffer a similar disability), but it's nowhere near troll levels.

He's talked about a fan level of disrespect for 10 (agreed). He's talked about having more confidence in Eli than most (I see the warts, but can also see the team having success with the right moves made next off-season). He's talked about drafting a QB (I would like to know what we have in Webb first, but OK ... seems we may have 2 young QBs in-house soon enough.)

But holy hell. Three straight running plays is an indication that Eli's lost it? Damn ... that's nutty.


For me, it is the body of work this year. What did he do before the injuries? The OL..There a lot of hurting OLs out there. Eli is not making anyone better. They had that nice play in there, it worked. Ellison was WIDE OPEN. He missed it badly. Eli is the best QB the Giants have ever had. He is done...worse, he will be the last to see it. He says, he is sad that McAdoo got fired. He got him fired by playing like shit and benching himself. McAdoo should have had some balls and said FU, you are starting tomorrow. You are not making me the coach that broke the streak. I am going to send you out there and you are going to have to refuse to go in on national TV. Eli has a little bit of spoiled brat in him. If he stays, he needs to take a pay cut so we can put better players around him. Better QBs have taken pay cuts to get players.
As I've laid out a trillion times, it feels like, in the past couple  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 10:13 am : link
of weeks...

Hire a new coach and GM. Keep Eli as a placeholder to the QB you draft in round one (or Davis Webb, whomever wins the training camp battle for #2). You have a new offense. Your GM makes some thrifty moves, on a team that actually has some talent at the skill positions on both sides of the ball, but thrifty moves to shore up the trenches. You start Eli when you take the wrapper off of all this week one, and let the chips fall where they may.

This is the most conservative and logical approach for the following reasons:

-A veteran QB to learn a new offense and help coach up everybody else on offense, including young understudies.

-The value of keeping Eli under contract is more than cutting him, eating the dead cap number, and then signing a lesser veteran anyways. 12.5 million plus 6-14 million for a guy like Mike Glennon or Jay Cutler is actually the same cap space or more, than keeping Manning.

-A new coach likely would be able to hedge their bets by having a vet like Eli. That way, if you start winning, you're in position to actually make a run at something, but if you're losing, you buy yourself more time by putting it on Manning and then pulling him for the rookies, which would need more time to grow.

-This is a pretty common protocol for transition in the NFL.
It doesn't matter what I, or anybody else thinks about Webb.....  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 10:16 am : link
there is a reason he's not active. What that reason is, I don't know.

But all of the information that is out there, that we are privy to, is that the people that make decisions don't think he's ready.

If that's maddening to you, well... Sorry? I don't know what to say. But that's what it's looking like right now, that he's not ready.

And it doesn't matter what you, me, the media, or anybody else except the people in the building that have the power to make the decision, thinks.
RE: RE: RE: RE: First Drive of the Game:  
Beezer : 12/11/2017 10:16 am : link
In comment 13735223 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13735184 Beezer said:


Quote:




But holy hell. Three straight running plays is an indication that Eli's lost it? Damn ... that's nutty.



Did you think you were watching the last 2 minutes of tie-game in the SuperBowl?

your nutty...


Do you not factor in ANY of the existing personnel?

You (and others) act as though personnel in these games makes zero difference.
And I haven't been crapping on anybody for wanting to see Webb....  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 10:19 am : link
I myself said just yesterday morning that I hoped he came in and threw for a bunch of TD's and looks great. Who wouldn't want that?

But the fact of the matter is that he's not being dressed, for whatever reason.

You take that as me crapping on you for wanting to see Webb, when all I'm doing (I feel like) is stating the obvious.
the obvious is this  
hitdog42 : 12/11/2017 10:25 am : link
Webb was supposed to just learn this year
the giants (in the giants view) were supposed to compete for the division.
Geno was the 2 because a vet is needed for a contender if the QB goes down.
Webb not getting reps is because until they were fully eliminated... the head coach who had been under fire was not going to have a rookie come in for Eli.
if the giants new they would be in rebuild all year.... they would have gotten webb reps much earlier...

so here we are... with a few weeks left..,. and there is no downside to getting the kid reps and into the game with a modified playbook... which is basically the playbook anyway since it should be tossed into a dumpster fire.
RE: First Drive of the Game:  
PatersonPlank : 12/11/2017 10:25 am : link
In comment 13735058 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.

Perfect example of why its over for him...


I think a more realistic view of this is that the Cowboys D set up in a formation that gave the Giants the run rather than pass. Eli, and Sullivan, saw this and checked into runs. Dallas was betting that we couldn't run the ball against them in a base setup, and they were correct. IMO this is more an indictment of our running game (line and backs) than anything to do with Eli.
I'm not crapping on anyone for wanting to see Webb play  
Bill L : 12/11/2017 10:26 am : link
but I am saying that the truth is, there's as little to gain from that as playing Eli. Whether it's Webb, Smith, or eve3n Eli for that matter, at this point it is wanting them to play just to see them play. Neither Smith nor Webb has a future here. Webb would have had a future if we had made the playoffs or even just finished outside the playoffs. But we didn't, so he he doesn't. The only one with a future actually, is Eli and that's iffy at this point. His future is as a mentor or potential bridge to the franchise guy we are getting. And, we already know what Eli is, so there's no real need to evaluate him. For future purposes, the QB is the least important position to look at this season. YEt, it's the most talked about.
RE: I'm not crapping on anyone for wanting to see Webb play  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 10:30 am : link
In comment 13735259 Bill L said:
Quote:
but I am saying that the truth is, there's as little to gain from that as playing Eli. Whether it's Webb, Smith, or eve3n Eli for that matter, at this point it is wanting them to play just to see them play. Neither Smith nor Webb has a future here. Webb would have had a future if we had made the playoffs or even just finished outside the playoffs. But we didn't, so he he doesn't. The only one with a future actually, is Eli and that's iffy at this point. His future is as a mentor or potential bridge to the franchise guy we are getting. And, we already know what Eli is, so there's no real need to evaluate him. For future purposes, the QB is the least important position to look at this season. YEt, it's the most talked about.


Exactly, the whole situation is toxic.
RE: It doesn't matter what I, or anybody else thinks about Webb.....  
Section331 : 12/11/2017 10:39 am : link
In comment 13735233 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
there is a reason he's not active. What that reason is, I don't know.



Yeah, I don't know either, but we have to at least entertain the option that the coaches don't like what they've seen from Webb, even if it is simply running scout teams. Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense to at the very least not give him practice reps.
RE: RE: Ok then  
bradshaw44 : 12/11/2017 10:42 am : link
In comment 13735145 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13735138 LatHarv83 said:


Quote:


You believe what you want and cherry pick opinions who agree with you while we let the results speak for themselves. I just watched Geno play a game with this team and it looked just about no different than any game Ive seen Eli play without Beckham this year

Love Eli, but hes not doing anything whatsoever to elevate this team from the minimal offensive ceiling they may have. Its over



What opinions did I cherry pick? Kevin Gilbride and Greg Cossell?

What other opinions are out there, non fan, right now about Eli being in decline or not? Those interviews happened last week. How is that cherry picking?


As a matter of fact, I havent heard any former or current coaches or players say they think Eli is in decline. Well, Charley Casserly is the only one that said hes not getting better. Thats the only one.
More from Bob Papa and NFL Matchup, having an ongoing Twitter  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 10:43 am : link
conversation:

Quote:
NFL Matchup on ESPN‏Verified account
@NFLMatchup

Replying to @BobPapa_NFL @Giants
As far as raw numbers go, they have dropped the most passes in the league, with 30 drops, and also the highest percentage of targets, with 6.4%.

Any way you slice it, it's not good- a receiving core of backups is bound to have this happen.


Quote:
Bob Papa‏Verified account
@BobPapa_NFL
9m9 minutes ago

Thanks for update. The problem for them was the drops started before the starters got hurt.
I just have no idea  
PaulBlakeTSU : 12/11/2017 10:44 am : link
what people are expecting with this offensive cast and coaching staff.

RE: It doesn't matter what I, or anybody else thinks about Webb.....  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 12/11/2017 10:46 am : link
In comment 13735233 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
there is a reason he's not active. What that reason is, I don't know.

But all of the information that is out there, that we are privy to, is that the people that make decisions don't think he's ready.

If that's maddening to you, well... Sorry? I don't know what to say. But that's what it's looking like right now, that he's not ready.

And it doesn't matter what you, me, the media, or anybody else except the people in the building that have the power to make the decision, thinks.


He got his first reps as a backup this past week, which was a short week for some reason (They started practice on Thursday I want to say). Give him at least 2 more weeks of reps as a backup, and I am sure he will dress and play in some games.
RE: RE: It doesn't matter what I, or anybody else thinks about Webb.....  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 10:47 am : link
In comment 13735302 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 13735233 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


there is a reason he's not active. What that reason is, I don't know.

But all of the information that is out there, that we are privy to, is that the people that make decisions don't think he's ready.

If that's maddening to you, well... Sorry? I don't know what to say. But that's what it's looking like right now, that he's not ready.

And it doesn't matter what you, me, the media, or anybody else except the people in the building that have the power to make the decision, thinks.



He got his first reps as a backup this past week, which was a short week for some reason (They started practice on Thursday I want to say). Give him at least 2 more weeks of reps as a backup, and I am sure he will dress and play in some games.


Give him at least two more weeks and then we'll see him dress and play in "some games"?

There's only three weeks left in the season.
RE: As I've laid out a trillion times, it feels like, in the past couple  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/11/2017 11:14 am : link
In comment 13735228 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
of weeks...

-A new coach likely would be able to hedge their bets by having a vet like Eli. That way, if you start winning, you're in position to actually make a run at something, but if you're losing, you buy yourself more time by putting it on Manning and then pulling him for the rookies, which would need more time to grow.

-This is a pretty common protocol for transition in the NFL.

The one thing I think you're really underestimating is how much the media/fan hysterics of a couple weeks ago might affect the thinking of the new coach.

I think it would only be natural if the new coach was hesitant to invite a repeat of that same situation if/when the time came to transition to the young QB midseason. And if you're being honest with yourself, you know that a midseason switch would always be on the radar just like it was for Warner with Eli.

It might not be the top consideration, but it's not insignificant either.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: First Drive of the Game:  
Jimmy Googs : 12/11/2017 11:15 am : link
In comment 13735234 Beezer said:
Quote:
In comment 13735223 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 13735184 Beezer said:


Quote:




But holy hell. Three straight running plays is an indication that Eli's lost it? Damn ... that's nutty.



Did you think you were watching the last 2 minutes of tie-game in the SuperBowl?

your nutty...



Do you not factor in ANY of the existing personnel?

You (and others) act as though personnel in these games makes zero difference.


So our first round pick match-up nightmare Tight End is not worthy of getting a chance? How about our second round pick slot guy from the year before? How about a throw to the back of the end zone that if our guy doesnt catch it nobody does?

How about trying to make a play...
RE: RE: As I've laid out a trillion times, it feels like, in the past couple  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 11:16 am : link
In comment 13735360 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13735228 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


of weeks...

-A new coach likely would be able to hedge their bets by having a vet like Eli. That way, if you start winning, you're in position to actually make a run at something, but if you're losing, you buy yourself more time by putting it on Manning and then pulling him for the rookies, which would need more time to grow.

-This is a pretty common protocol for transition in the NFL.


The one thing I think you're really underestimating is how much the media/fan hysterics of a couple weeks ago might affect the thinking of the new coach.

I think it would only be natural if the new coach was hesitant to invite a repeat of that same situation if/when the time came to transition to the young QB midseason. And if you're being honest with yourself, you know that a midseason switch would always be on the radar just like it was for Warner with Eli.

It might not be the top consideration, but it's not insignificant either.


Actually I do think it would be different. There was zero reason to bench Eli last week and start Geno. None. It was a desperate, final act of two desperate men to save their jobs by once and for all dumping the failure at Eli's feet.

That's what the reaction was about.

They actually did the new regime a favor. Now the streak is over, and if a QB is drafted round one, you have a reason to bench Manning that fans can accept, if it comes to that.
RE: RE: First Drive of the Game:  
Jimmy Googs : 12/11/2017 11:19 am : link
In comment 13735257 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 13735058 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.

Perfect example of why its over for him...




I think a more realistic view of this is that the Cowboys D set up in a formation that gave the Giants the run rather than pass. Eli, and Sullivan, saw this and checked into runs. Dallas was betting that we couldn't run the ball against them in a base setup, and they were correct. IMO this is more an indictment of our running game (line and backs) than anything to do with Eli.


So its nearly Christmas and we were 2-10 and decided to give the run 3 straight chances (4 if you count the penalty) versus putting the ball in the hands of Eli who can try and make a play?

the answer is simply...nobody believes he can and probably not even himself otherwise someone would say...lets give him a chance.
RE: RE: RE: It doesn't matter what I, or anybody else thinks about Webb.....  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 12/11/2017 11:22 am : link
In comment 13735306 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13735302 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


In comment 13735233 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


there is a reason he's not active. What that reason is, I don't know.

But all of the information that is out there, that we are privy to, is that the people that make decisions don't think he's ready.

If that's maddening to you, well... Sorry? I don't know what to say. But that's what it's looking like right now, that he's not ready.

And it doesn't matter what you, me, the media, or anybody else except the people in the building that have the power to make the decision, thinks.



He got his first reps as a backup this past week, which was a short week for some reason (They started practice on Thursday I want to say). Give him at least 2 more weeks of reps as a backup, and I am sure he will dress and play in some games.



Give him at least two more weeks and then we'll see him dress and play in "some games"?

There's only three weeks left in the season.


This is what I was talking about, with you being an asshole. There is NO reason to act like a jerk.

The point being, they did not want to throw him to the Wolves with no preparation whatsoever.

As far as what he can gain from playing in our putrid offense, he can get to experience the speed of playing against an NFL team, and learn what it's like to process and make decisions when under that duress. Better he learns it sooner, rather then later.
RE: RE: RE: First Drive of the Game:  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 11:22 am : link
In comment 13735371 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13735257 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


In comment 13735058 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.

Perfect example of why its over for him...




I think a more realistic view of this is that the Cowboys D set up in a formation that gave the Giants the run rather than pass. Eli, and Sullivan, saw this and checked into runs. Dallas was betting that we couldn't run the ball against them in a base setup, and they were correct. IMO this is more an indictment of our running game (line and backs) than anything to do with Eli.



So its nearly Christmas and we were 2-10 and decided to give the run 3 straight chances (4 if you count the penalty) versus putting the ball in the hands of Eli who can try and make a play?

the answer is simply...nobody believes he can and probably not even himself otherwise someone would say...lets give him a chance.


It was 1st and 20 after a 16 play drive, in a 3-0 game in which we are overmatched.

It's pretty common to go conservative and take the points, there. I see it week in, week out in the NFL, even with rosters much better than ours.
RE: RE: RE: RE: It doesn't matter what I, or anybody else thinks about Webb.....  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 11:23 am : link
In comment 13735373 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 13735306 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 13735302 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


In comment 13735233 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


there is a reason he's not active. What that reason is, I don't know.

But all of the information that is out there, that we are privy to, is that the people that make decisions don't think he's ready.

If that's maddening to you, well... Sorry? I don't know what to say. But that's what it's looking like right now, that he's not ready.

And it doesn't matter what you, me, the media, or anybody else except the people in the building that have the power to make the decision, thinks.



He got his first reps as a backup this past week, which was a short week for some reason (They started practice on Thursday I want to say). Give him at least 2 more weeks of reps as a backup, and I am sure he will dress and play in some games.



Give him at least two more weeks and then we'll see him dress and play in "some games"?

There's only three weeks left in the season.



This is what I was talking about, with you being an asshole. There is NO reason to act like a jerk.

The point being, they did not want to throw him to the Wolves with no preparation whatsoever.

As far as what he can gain from playing in our putrid offense, he can get to experience the speed of playing against an NFL team, and learn what it's like to process and make decisions when under that duress. Better he learns it sooner, rather then later.


Hahah, geez... How is stating the obvious being an asshole?
RE: RE: First Drive of the Game:  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/11/2017 11:27 am : link
In comment 13735257 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 13735058 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.

Perfect example of why its over for him...




I think a more realistic view of this is that the Cowboys D set up in a formation that gave the Giants the run rather than pass. Eli, and Sullivan, saw this and checked into runs. Dallas was betting that we couldn't run the ball against them in a base setup, and they were correct. IMO this is more an indictment of our running game (line and backs) than anything to do with Eli.

You can't just always take what the opponent gives you - sometimes you have to impose your will on them. Of course they're going to give the Giants the run on 1st and 20! That's not necessarily an indictment of the Giants running game. Lombardi's Packers wouldn't consistently convert from a starting point of 1st and 20.

And I don't mean for that to be entirely on Eli, either, but the whole "take what the defense gives you" no matter what the circumstance is, is frustrating. We've seen it a number of times late in games as well, when the Giants have a chance to score to get back into the game, but continue to dink and dunk the clock away.

To the extent, however, that we know that Eli has historically been a gunslinger and that we believe he still has carte blanche when it comes to audibles, it's at least a little bit on him that he's become so much more conservative himself. It's not like he's never made a play in his career while throwing into coverage.
RE: I'm not crapping on anyone for wanting to see Webb play  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/11/2017 11:30 am : link
In comment 13735259 Bill L said:
Quote:
but I am saying that the truth is, there's as little to gain from that as playing Eli. Whether it's Webb, Smith, or eve3n Eli for that matter, at this point it is wanting them to play just to see them play. Neither Smith nor Webb has a future here. Webb would have had a future if we had made the playoffs or even just finished outside the playoffs. But we didn't, so he he doesn't. The only one with a future actually, is Eli and that's iffy at this point. His future is as a mentor or potential bridge to the franchise guy we are getting. And, we already know what Eli is, so there's no real need to evaluate him. For future purposes, the QB is the least important position to look at this season. YEt, it's the most talked about.

You sure about that? Webb is an afterthought because of the "franchise guy we are getting"?

RE: RE: RE: First Drive of the Game:  
PatersonPlank : 12/11/2017 11:30 am : link
In comment 13735386 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13735257 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


In comment 13735058 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.

Perfect example of why its over for him...




I think a more realistic view of this is that the Cowboys D set up in a formation that gave the Giants the run rather than pass. Eli, and Sullivan, saw this and checked into runs. Dallas was betting that we couldn't run the ball against them in a base setup, and they were correct. IMO this is more an indictment of our running game (line and backs) than anything to do with Eli.


You can't just always take what the opponent gives you - sometimes you have to impose your will on them. Of course they're going to give the Giants the run on 1st and 20! That's not necessarily an indictment of the Giants running game. Lombardi's Packers wouldn't consistently convert from a starting point of 1st and 20.

And I don't mean for that to be entirely on Eli, either, but the whole "take what the defense gives you" no matter what the circumstance is, is frustrating. We've seen it a number of times late in games as well, when the Giants have a chance to score to get back into the game, but continue to dink and dunk the clock away.

To the extent, however, that we know that Eli has historically been a gunslinger and that we believe he still has carte blanche when it comes to audibles, it's at least a little bit on him that he's become so much more conservative himself. It's not like he's never made a play in his career while throwing into coverage.


Look I'm not stating anything as fact, I'm just pointing out that there are other reasons here. I think, in my opinion not fact, that at that stage of the game, with long yardage to go and the D playing it as such, that the Giants decided it was more important to take the points. A lot of teams have also made that decision. I think it had more to do with the game situation than Eli.
.....  
Route 9 : 12/11/2017 11:43 am : link
Same old shit.

1. Britt talks well about Eli again
2. Gatorade Jimmy Googs and others debate the same thing over and over... again
3. Arc comes in as the middle ground and nails everything, right on the head...again

Can this season just end already?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: First Drive of the Game:  
Beezer : 12/11/2017 11:58 am : link
In comment 13735362 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13735234 Beezer said:


Quote:


In comment 13735223 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 13735184 Beezer said:


Quote:




But holy hell. Three straight running plays is an indication that Eli's lost it? Damn ... that's nutty.



Did you think you were watching the last 2 minutes of tie-game in the SuperBowl?

your nutty...



Do you not factor in ANY of the existing personnel?

You (and others) act as though personnel in these games makes zero difference.



So our first round pick match-up nightmare Tight End is not worthy of getting a chance? How about our second round pick slot guy from the year before? How about a throw to the back of the end zone that if our guy doesnt catch it nobody does?

How about trying to make a play...


Yeah, I'm with you. Just not putting those decisions on Eli. Unless he's calling the plays in the huddle, and in that case, OK. I just did not think he was.
.....  
Route 9 : 12/11/2017 12:02 pm : link
Maybe I'm way off here, but why is everyone grilling Eli for the Ellison miss when he came right back on third down (after the penalty) and made the pass to Shepard when Eli got flushed to his left?

I mean sure, he missed Ellison but that was the opening drive to make it 3-3, they settled for a FG anyway. There were three Cowboy defenders right by Ellison at the 25. I highly doubt that's a walk in touchdown if he hits him right in the hand. Same drive, three points.

Shepard practically ran to the same spot where Ellison was missed, just a few plays later. The Giants were done in by another dumb ass offensive lineman penalty.
Agreed. Stop grilling Eli and the offense.  
Jimmy Googs : 12/11/2017 1:59 pm : link
10 points is not nothing and could have probably held up against a lot of teams. That is why its important to play for 3 the first chance you get into the redzone.

It sets the tone...

We were down 3 nothing, and just had a 16 play drive.....  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:01 pm : link
that was derailed by an offensive line penalty.

A lot of coaches would play conservative there. We see it every week.
It would be more demoralizing to throw a pick...  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:04 pm : link
or take a sack to put us out of field goal range, and come away with nothing after that long, and time consuming, of a drive. You gotta come away with points.

I say, they're 2-10 with nothing to lose, but that's not how they were thinking.
Just like I wouldn't have punted later in the half during one series..  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:05 pm : link
but it was a tight game, and they were conservative. It happens.
Eli is not worth his salary  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 2:12 pm : link
I do this from stats. Look at his last 5 years. That is not worth 20 million a year. It is Josh McNown. I would rather have a locked up rookie contract at QB than Eli because there is upside. Eli will get worse, he has gotten worse. Yay, he still has a live arm. Most older QBs do. I can still spin it 60 yards and I'm old and fat. He has always thrown a difficult ball to catch and he is less accurate now. Time to move on.
Yesterday.  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 2:17 pm : link
Eli had the fans, the emotions, the team was trying. They kept it close for as long as they could. He needed ELEVATE his play and those around him. That is what aging QBs need to do when playing past 35. He doesn't have that, he would needs the perfect situation. That is what Cosell said, we will not have the perfect situation in large part because Eli is not worth his contract.
Disagree. What teams do every week is still give an effort  
Jimmy Googs : 12/11/2017 2:17 pm : link
to score or be more aggressive on first and second down, and then maybe more conservative on 3rd. With a veteran like Eli you have to presume he can get rid of the ball not to take a sack.

But give it a shot. Otherwise I think Webb can hand off 3 straight times too...
I don't get the contract talk.  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:19 pm : link
Eli's contract did not prevent them from spending 200 million in free agency last offseason.

As far as "elevating" the players around him, some of these guys weren't even on rosters 8 weeks ago. They'll go back to out of the NFL after this offseason. I think you're expecting too much.

Even Engram gets plenty of targets and catches. He also has a lot of drops.

That's pretty much the only reliable receiver he consistently has. And before you mention Sheppard, I said consistently.
Maybe they don't think Webb...  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:20 pm : link
can "hand it off three straight times" since he hasn't taken many snaps from center.
RE: I don't get the contract talk.  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 2:21 pm : link
In comment 13735832 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Eli's contract did not prevent them from spending 200 million in free agency last offseason.

As far as "elevating" the players around him, some of these guys weren't even on rosters 8 weeks ago. They'll go back to out of the NFL after this offseason. I think you're expecting too much.

Even Engram gets plenty of targets and catches. He also has a lot of drops.

That's pretty much the only reliable receiver he consistently has. And before you mention Sheppard, I said consistently.
And before those players got injured? Starting from 2013 through this year, Eli is worth his contract...go look at the stats. Thats 5 years worth.
Compaer it to McNown this year  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 2:24 pm : link
Take McNown stats using the terrible players on NYJ this year and push them out for 5 years and compare that to Eli's last 5 years..Not good
RE: RE: I'm not crapping on anyone for wanting to see Webb play  
Bill L : 12/11/2017 2:29 pm : link
In comment 13735391 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13735259 Bill L said:


Quote:


but I am saying that the truth is, there's as little to gain from that as playing Eli. Whether it's Webb, Smith, or eve3n Eli for that matter, at this point it is wanting them to play just to see them play. Neither Smith nor Webb has a future here. Webb would have had a future if we had made the playoffs or even just finished outside the playoffs. But we didn't, so he he doesn't. The only one with a future actually, is Eli and that's iffy at this point. His future is as a mentor or potential bridge to the franchise guy we are getting. And, we already know what Eli is, so there's no real need to evaluate him. For future purposes, the QB is the least important position to look at this season. YEt, it's the most talked about.


You sure about that? Webb is an afterthought because of the "franchise guy we are getting"?

I'm 100% sure. Exceptions don't change strategy.
RE: Maybe they don't think Webb...  
Jimmy Googs : 12/11/2017 2:32 pm : link
In comment 13735834 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
can "hand it off three straight times" since he hasn't taken many snaps from center.


kind of amazing he can simply get out of bed each day and make it to the stadium.

We really need to revamp the draft evaluation process and ask the students if they ever even played real football before...
RE: Compaer it to McNown this year  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:35 pm : link
In comment 13735845 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
Take McNown stats using the terrible players on NYJ this year and push them out for 5 years and compare that to Eli's last 5 years..Not good


In 2014 Eli was 6th in yards, and 6th in TD's in the NFL.

In 2015 Eli was 6th in yards and 3rd in TD's in the NFL.

He's had two bad years in an awful offense.

We scored 30 or more points 7 times in 2015, including 3 out of the last 4 games.

The offense changed a lot more than the player did, and the results everywhere reflect that.
RE: RE: Maybe they don't think Webb...  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:37 pm : link
In comment 13735871 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13735834 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


can "hand it off three straight times" since he hasn't taken many snaps from center.



kind of amazing he can simply get out of bed each day and make it to the stadium.

We really need to revamp the draft evaluation process and ask the students if they ever even played real football before...


You need to direct this at the guys making the decisions, the professionals that are currently evaluating this and coming to the conclusion that he isn't ready, not me.
.....  
Route 9 : 12/11/2017 2:40 pm : link
Jimmy, I was just talking about that one play/drive in particular. Im not saying he achieved an all-star performance that carried the team to a victory. It wasnt that big of a mistake where he threw a pick 6 the other way , or even something inconsequential such as missing a wide open WR for a TD like he did vs the Rams. Youre right, 10 points is 10 points.

Hes my favorite Giant of all-time. I didnt get to see much of LT. I didnt get to see 1990 or really remember it, but I will acknowledge that he is getting older and he is starting to decline, not the same guy he was in 2011 of course.

I honestly think he has taken so much abuse and way too many hits over the course of his career thats why its starting to show, mixed with age. He played in 210 straight games behind James Brewer, Will Beatty, and even Pughs no-shows against Philly.

I don't think it was ever in the itinerary for Eli to be great this season, was it? We were worried about him the most going into this season here on BBI. We were talking Super Bowl. We just needed "enough" from him because we thought this defense would return to its 2016 form and offensively Eli needed to be a pro manager, reading defenses and OBJ kind of do the rest. Come weeks 1 and 2 against a mediocre Dallas team, this offense with Beckham not 100% looked like well, a team that was destined for 2-11.

That plan from 2016 didnt translate over. Those two games to open the season were trash. The play calling, the clueless coaching, the bad blocking, drops, Marshall was essentially worthless.

Hes just playing for the sake of playing, I get it. But him missing a wide open guy and then forgetting about it and making a play like the one he made to Shepard on the very next one, thats always kind of been his thing. The upside is the Giants are going to be getting a good draft pick and a shiny new QB.

2017 we were fucked from the start with the OBJ injury vs the Browns
Not worth it  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 2:40 pm : link
5 years of ELi

1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int

If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5

1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int

Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.

Just to follow up on the Josh McCown comparison....  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:44 pm : link
in 2014, when Eli was 6th in yards and 6th in TD's, McCown was 28th in yards and 30th in TD's.

in 2015, when Eli was 6th in yards and 3rd in TD's, McCown was 28th in yards and 30th in TD's.

Kind of silly, no?
RE: Not worth it  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:46 pm : link
In comment 13735893 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
5 years of ELi

1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int

If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5

1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int

Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.


That's not how stats in football work. You can't combine five seasons and compare them.

Each season is it's own entity.
RE: Not worth it  
Dave in Hoboken : 12/11/2017 2:46 pm : link
In comment 13735893 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
5 years of ELi

1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int

If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5

1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int

Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.


McCown is done for the year now, but yeah, he had a much better year than anyone thought he would with no talent around him on the Jets. Pretty crazy.
You're also giving him stats that he didn't get....  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:47 pm : link
you're essentially assuming them. That doesn't work either.

If you think any of that is relevant, I don't know what to tell you.
RE: RE: RE: I'm not crapping on anyone for wanting to see Webb play  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/11/2017 2:48 pm : link
In comment 13735862 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13735391 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13735259 Bill L said:


Quote:


but I am saying that the truth is, there's as little to gain from that as playing Eli. Whether it's Webb, Smith, or eve3n Eli for that matter, at this point it is wanting them to play just to see them play. Neither Smith nor Webb has a future here. Webb would have had a future if we had made the playoffs or even just finished outside the playoffs. But we didn't, so he he doesn't. The only one with a future actually, is Eli and that's iffy at this point. His future is as a mentor or potential bridge to the franchise guy we are getting. And, we already know what Eli is, so there's no real need to evaluate him. For future purposes, the QB is the least important position to look at this season. YEt, it's the most talked about.


You sure about that? Webb is an afterthought because of the "franchise guy we are getting"?



I'm 100% sure. Exceptions don't change strategy.

Oh, I agree with you that you can't base your strategy around exceptions - I'm not denying that. But you're the one declaring that Webb has no future with this team and I'm just saying that there's no way for you to know that. It's entirely possible that the supposed franchise QB the Giants select could wash out, and it's also possible that they both end up being very good with Webb being even better than whoever they draft.

I'm not disagreeing with the premise of the Giants selecting a QB at the top of the draft, just the certainty that anyone can say for sure that Webb has no future with the team. And I used Cousins as the example because he was drafted three rounds behind Griffin (in the same draft) with the idea that Griffin would be the franchise QB and Cousins would be likely be just a backup or trade bait. Years later, Griffin is currently out of the league while Cousins has thrown for more than twice as many TDs as RG3 over their careers and is poised to cash in with a huge contract.

There just isn't a way for you (or anyone else) to be certain that Webb has no future with the team.
Webb has no future with the team  
Jimmy Googs : 12/11/2017 2:51 pm : link
until he stops being ignored.

Stay the course, the offense will come around some day...
RE: RE: Not worth it  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 2:52 pm : link
In comment 13735905 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13735893 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


5 years of ELi

1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int

If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5

1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int

Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.




That's not how stats in football work. You can't combine five seasons and compare them.

Each season is it's own entity.


I'm giving you a season at the Jets with terrible talent around him for an older QB and making it 5 years. I gave Eli Stats for the last 5 years starting at 2013. Eli last 5 years is journeyman stats, you cannot spin or deflect your way out.
RE: RE: RE: Not worth it  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 2:52 pm : link
In comment 13735918 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 13735905 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 13735893 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


5 years of ELi

1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int

If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5

1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int

Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.




That's not how stats in football work. You can't combine five seasons and compare them.

Each season is it's own entity.



I'm giving you a season at the Jets with terrible talent around him for an older QB and making it 5 years. I gave Eli Stats for the last 5 years starting at 2013. Eli last 5 years is journeyman stats, you cannot spin or deflect your way out.


Did 2014 and 2015 occur in the last five years?
Cutler  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 3:00 pm : link
Wanna compare Eli to Rivers last 5?

1833 2815 65.12% 21553 148 70
Let's break it down by year:  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 3:00 pm : link
2013:

Eli Manning: 14th in the NFL in yards, 21st in TD's
Josh McCown: 30th in the NFL in yards, 27th in TD's

2014:

Eli Manning: 6th in the NFL in yards, 6th in TD's
Josh McCown: 28th in the NFL in yards, 30th in TD's

2015:

Eli Manning: 6th in the NFL in yards, 3rd in TD's
Josh McCown: 30th in the NFL in yards, 30th in TD's

2016:

Eli Manning: 13th in the NFL in yards, 11th in TD's
Josh McCown: 34th in the NFL in yards, 35th in TD's

Are you really saying this is comparable?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Not worth it  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 3:03 pm : link
In comment 13735921 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13735918 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


In comment 13735905 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 13735893 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


5 years of ELi

1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int

If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5

1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int

Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.




That's not how stats in football work. You can't combine five seasons and compare them.

Each season is it's own entity.



I'm giving you a season at the Jets with terrible talent around him for an older QB and making it 5 years. I gave Eli Stats for the last 5 years starting at 2013. Eli last 5 years is journeyman stats, you cannot spin or deflect your way out.



Did 2014 and 2015 occur in the last five years?
You are reaching Britt...forget the comparison. Has Eli earned his money the last 5 years. Has it been 20 million a year production? Do you expect him to get better?
Yeah, forget it...  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 3:04 pm : link
because you're comparison is completely nuts. I see why you want to shift gears.
We're going round in circles, now, though....  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 3:05 pm : link
this thread has run it's course.

Nobody is changing anybody's mind. We'll just watch it play out and see what happens, then revisit later.
RE: Yeah, forget it...  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 3:08 pm : link
In comment 13735943 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
because you're comparison is completely nuts. I see why you want to shift gears.
Yeah, because it was the point I was trying to make. That Eli is not worth his money and you picked apart the comparison...fine it was never my point we both know it. He has put up journeyman stats for the last 5 years. Statistically speaking at 36/37 it is very unlikely to expect better performance, very likely he gets worse...regardless of how lively his arm is.
.  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 3:18 pm : link
Quote:
GiantsWFAN‏
@giantswfan
3m3 minutes ago

Spags said "probrably no differently" when asked about plans for Webb this week....(likely means he stays 3rd string) #giants
I think most sum it up correctly  
Dave in Hoboken : 12/11/2017 3:25 pm : link
when they say Eli isn't the solution going forward.
RE: Really only bad passes  
Carson53 : 12/11/2017 3:35 pm : link
In comment 13733634 section125 said:
Quote:
were the WR screen he threw too high and allowed the DB to make the play and the pass to Engram that should have been PI, Illegal Contact or Holding.

Other than that, I thought he was extremely accurate.
.

Yep, that pass to Ellison where nobody was within five yards
of the guy was extremely accurate in the first half.
The ball was five yards over his head too!
Guess you had stepped away from the tube huh?
RE: We're going round in circles, now, though....  
Route 9 : 12/11/2017 3:44 pm : link
In comment 13735949 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
this thread has run it's course.

Nobody is changing anybody's mind. We'll just watch it play out and see what happens, then revisit later.


.....
Route 9 : 11:43 am : link : reply
Same old shit.

1. Britt talks well about Eli again
2. Gatorade Jimmy Googs and others debate the same thing over and over... again
3. Arc comes in as the middle ground and nails everything, right on the head...again
Damn it  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 3:47 pm : link
Fuck yesterday, fuck one game. It was not any better than Geno fucking Smith. That's the Eli bar now. Are we better with Eli or Geno? Well if you just look at the last 2 games, they are the same(Geno might have been a stitch better with less practice and experience) You need to look at the last few years, not one game, when making a decision about Eli. You can reasonably expect him to get worse. It isn't worth his salary, end of story.
Well, if nothing else, there is enough internet ink on this subject...  
Britt in VA : 12/11/2017 3:49 pm : link
to revisit next season, whether Eli is here or somewhere else.

It's all archived right here on BBI.

All we can do is wait and see, now.
RE: Well, if nothing else, there is enough internet ink on this subject...  
Thegratefulhead : 12/11/2017 3:50 pm : link
In comment 13736076 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
to revisit next season, whether Eli is here or somewhere else.

It's all archived right here on BBI.

All we can do is wait and see, now.
agreed
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